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WeeklyHero Discussion - Weaver (self.learndota2)

TheDrGooM - Profuse Bleeding が 投稿 - announcement

Skitskurr The Weaver

"Fate weaves the threads of our lives together. Fate also wields the blade that cuts them short." (listen)

Skitskurr the Weaver is a ranged agility hero, renowned for being one of the hardest heroes in the game to properly lock down and kill, despite his extreme frailty. This is mainly due to his low-cooldown Shukuchi ability, which provides him both max movement speed and invisibility when used, making him highly effective at chasing enemies as well as escaping from battle. In addition, his ultimate, Time Lapse, is yet another survival tool, allowing Weaver to regain the position and health points he had precisely 5 seconds prior to activation. His exceptional ability to maneuver around the battle, seeking the most fragile enemy heroes, is bolstered by his last two abilities.

Stats (at level 1)

  • Strength: 15 + 1.5
  • Agility (Primary): 14 + 2.5
  • Intelligence: 15 + 1.8
  • Range: 425
  • Damage: 55 - 65
  • HP: 500
  • Mana: 230
  • Armor: 1
  • Movement Speed: 290

Abilities

The Swarm

Weaver launches a swarm of 12 young Weavers that latch on any enemy unit in their path, attacking and reducing armor until it is killed.

  • Cast Animation: 0.3+0
  • Cast Range: 3000
  • Max Travel Distance: 3000
  • Beetles Spawn Radius: 300
  • Beetles Latch Radius: 100
  • Hero Attacks to Destroy: 4
  • Non-Hero Attacks to Destroy: 8
  • Tick Interval: 1.25/1.1/0.95/0.8
  • Damage per Tick: 20
  • Armor Reduction per Attack: 1
  • Beetle Duration: 16
  • Cooldown: 35/30/25/20
  • Mana Cost: 70/80/90/100

Shukuchi

Weaver shifts out of visibility, gaining the ability to move at maximum speed through physical units--doing harm to any enemies it passes through.

  • Cast Animation: 0+0
  • Damage Radius: 175
  • Fade Time: 0.25
  • Damage: 75/100/125/150
  • Haste Speed: 522
  • Invis Duration: 4
  • Cooldown: 12/10/8/6
  • Mana Cost: 60

Geminate Attack

Allows Weaver to dispatch two attacks at once.

  • Effect Delay: 0.25
  • Cooldown: 6/5/4/3

Time Lapse

Weaver warps backward to whatever position it was in five seconds earlier--regaining the HP and mana from that time. No effect on cooldown, gold or experience.

  • Cast Animation: 0.3 + 0
  • Lapsed Time: 5
  • Cooldown: 60/50/40
  • Mana Cost: 150/75/0

Aghanim's Scepter Upgrade

Allows Weaver to cast Time Lapse on Allies on a 1000 unit Cast Range; all the same effects apply. Time Lapsed allies will not be interrupted, meaning chanellings will continue. Also reduces Time Lapse's Cooldown to 16 seconds and adds a 0.53 second backswing when casting on an ally.

Other Information

Weaver on the Dota 2 Wiki

The aim of the regular Hero Discussion series is to encourage newbie friendly discussion about one of Dota2's many heroes.

Ask questions or share tips, both for playing the hero and for playing against them.

Previous discussion - Mirana

Next Week: Spirit Breaker

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トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]meikyoushisuiYou win by destroying the Ancient 7ポイント8ポイント  (8子コメント)

Here's my biggest problem with the hero in the offlane - when do I itemize desolator first versus other items? I feel like sometimes in the midgame when I do Linkens first I don't contribute at all to fights, but deso first and I just get blown up

[–]Moonlover69 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think it mostly depends on the enemy team. Linkers works well with Weavers other abilities to not get locked down. If you think you can avoid getting picked off, despite really accelerates your farm, because you can usually split push a tower or two with it.

[–]on_rocket_falls 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I always go deso first but that's just me. What about doing solar crest first? Just a thought.

[–]meikyoushisuiYou win by destroying the Ancient 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Solar crest might actually be really decent -- or even a casual medallion. Syncs up with -armor, provides a little bit of survivability and regen. It's worth trying.

[–]jabso19Weaver 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Depends on team line up and needs. I know you're in the offlane but if the team lacks lategame linkens first is ok if youre not expected to team fight. If you need to fight early get deso but be aware of your power curve. At some stage you will not be able to burst down heroes and cannot jump in head first as much.

Getting perserverance first then deso is an ok (not great though) compromise.

[–]PinkyFeldman 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Linkens Weaver needs to be played similar to Slark when it comes to teamfight approach. He contributes to teamfights by picking off the enemy team's squishy backline, which Linkens enables him to do.

[–]Davepen 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Weaver is my 2nd most played and I will also go Linkens first major item.

It just adds to Weavers mobility so much that I can't live without it.

You can always get a Blight Stone early on to build into Deso after Linkens.

[–]TrueTurtleKingFilthy Slark Picker 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

idk, do they have many single target spells? And do they already have low armor?

bright stone and the swarm is good enough to inflect early game physical damage.

[–]Frozenicypole 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If they have 1 or zero stuns, go deso. If they have more than 1 stun, linkens. The only exceptions are a necrophos, legion or beastmaster, against who you always go linken's first. But remember to always buy a blight stone before the linkens so you don't do absolutely no damage in teamfights.

[–]Culentriel 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Linkens is a nice item on weaver, I dont get how you think its a bad item. It gives you sustain, stats and blocks a spell which oftens makes the difference between death and life. Especially in these situations where you want to pick off a Support out of position and he only have 1 spell that will safe him. I often like to go deso first though, the nuke is insane at 10-15 min.

[–]FuzzyDragon77Here to lift your spirits 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

Weavers generally build raw damage, since his passive makes up for attack speed. This leads to a burst or be bursted play style most of the time, until the game goes late and weaver gets somewhat tanky as a result of the sheer number of items he has.

Preferred items are things like deso and medallion for armor reduction (in combination with his Q), linkens (so you can Shukuchi away or time lapse), daedalus (extra burst), any cheap damage (phase boots), maybe a dragon lance? (dunno about this one) for the added range/agi/tank?.

Later on he builds into items like Heart and Mkb, to become a burst power house, while also being virtually unkillable. He can't man up, but he can kite many carries around and kill them that way.

Aghs is situational. If you have no defensive supports but have a carry who needs to be saved, it's a worthy pick up. If you are the main core though, damage comes first. You can always put your linkens on someone else once you have Heart if you won't get killed but your hard carry might.

Right now he's not really meta, likely because other heroes outshine him. He can't recover from a bad lane particularly well since he can't fall back on the jungle super effectively like many current offlaners can. There are better carries that come online earlier and hit harder and are more elusive (cough slark cough), and the levels mid are wasted on him. He has a very poor supporting tool kit since it lacks control, and has an abillity and a passive based on being able to run through fights and chip/burst people. He's usually played pos 1 or 3, but is currently outshined by many heroes right now, and has a hard time against any tanky heroes on the enemy team.

If he is comparable to anyone, it would probably be TA, not puck. Both TA and weaver need to burst people down, are ok junglers, and build raw damage. TA has an enemy slow and built in minus armor, and weaver has self speed and built in minus armor. Neither have much control like puck, but both are hard to burst/kill if you play them correctly.

[–]Nirgilis 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Even though his passive is great i would never go phase over treads on weaver. He doesn't utilize the phase movement at all and it scales poorly since he doesnt build any ms and his base ms is very low. Treads give the added value of tread switching on a low mana spammable spell and the as can net you an extra attack before you shukichi away which is still more damage than the increased damage for phase.

Also leaving treads on strength increases survivability a great deal as you dont build any tankiness until your 4th or 5th item except for linkens stats.

[–]jabso19Weaver 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sometimes you unfortuately have to go bkb instead of linkens if they have too much aoe disable.

I think the status he has in the meta at the moment is he is the jack of all trades master of none. He's good at pick offs, he's good at teamfighting in the right situations. He farms and pushes ok. He can manfight a lot of heroes.

He does have high outplay potential but not at high levels. That's why he's a blast below 4k.

[–]Samthefabquoth the raven 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Phase aren't great. Tread switching is better, as once you get a bottle you never need to leave lane (you can tp home, lapse back but your bottle is full and you get about 2 seconds of fountain regen, like Kunnka X but slightly worse), and phase active is crap on weaver. You already have Shukuchi giving you phased movement and haste, and so generally don't build items like drums, which would allow you to benefit from phase.

[–]FuzzyDragon77Here to lift your spirits 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, was thinking more for the cheap damage to help with minus armor. Though if weaver ends up building mostly damage the attack speed probably does more work now that I think about it

[–]mdmanowLanaya 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Useful tip: Weaver can buyback and use Time Lapse to get back into the fight. Use this with caution, if you weren't bursted down you will return with low HP. Another aspect of this maneuver is that you don't need to immediately buyback, you can wait for as long as you want, Time Lapse will always send you back where you were 5 seconds before death with appropriate HP (would be funny if you insta killed self by Time Lapsing into death)

[–]fourthirds 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Linkens isn't terrible on this hero, but if you are choosing weaver in a game where they have enough single target disable that you think you should be getting linkens first then you probably picked the wrong hero.

OP is largely correct - if you go solo offlane weaver like lots of people do, you are going to get 20 minute linkens and then what? You still have poor damage and no real utility. I'm totally ok with linkens first when you are playing 1/2 and they've just got one nasty disable combo, but if you are getting offlane farm you should probably be building to get shit done earlier. 5k of linkens can be 1k aquila, 1.4k boots, .5 wand, and 2k dragon lance, or similar amounts of fighting items. Going linkens first totally misses your level 6-9 power spike when you can run people down.

Ags is also criminally underrated on weaver, especially if you are playing offlane and have a strong 1/2. if you are struggling to farm and aren't keeping up in items enough to be a good deeps hero then ags is a good pick up.

[–]TheDrGooM - Profuse Bleeding[S] 9ポイント10ポイント  (56子コメント)

I think a lot of people don't understand this hero, and it's a bit hard to explain the way I believe he's supposed to work and be played. Think of him as the agility right-clicking brother of Puck's casty-intelligence playstyle. Just as Puck is a nuker disabler but not the best in any of those categories; Weaver isn't the best Dps out there right out of the gate; has poor stats and doesn't have the best farm-to-carry potential like proper carries do.

The real power of these heroes is being able to mess with fights without getting into the middle of them; they can disengage and rejoin fights at anytime so it's a bit of a nightmare for low hp heroes or out of mana heroes in the enemy team cause you pop back into the fight and focus them specifically.

Imo he's supposed to be played just like Puck, as a position 2 mid that makes space for an actual carry; and you should not be going farmy items but instead try cheaper low cost high reward items; like Solar Crest, but that's just an example.

Linken's is a waste of money. So is radiance, don't even think about that silly stuff please. If you go Linken's as your first item you're showing everyone that you have no idea how the hero works and you'll just go around fights with 0 dps, blocking a mis-cast stun every 15 secs. Tanking up is your last priority, after escape-ability and raw damage. Bottle is solid, imo much better than Aquila. Aghanim's is extremely underrated and I think core in certain lineups; a timely Lapse on your carry can be 10 times as strong as a False Promise or any other big heal in the game; plus you can use it as a dumb-ally-positioning-fix; past level 16 on a 16 second cooldown and 0 mana cost; that's 2 casts per fight, normally one for an ally and one for yourself.

Edit: Edje's aghs' Weaver is a proper build. Two thumbs up from me. (This is it)

PD: Busy week, apologies for the late discussion thread.

Edit2: when you get downvoted by the hivemind in your own discussion thread. If you disagree that's completely fine, but that's not what downvotes are for.

Edit3: I'm not removing any of this by the way, you can continue downvoting if that's what you feel like doing; it doesnt make any of my points less valid. In fact, I'll downvote my own comments, because apparently having a different opinion on Dota is straight out misinformation and should never see the light of day now.

Edit4: sorry for being an asshole, i get fairly motivated when it comes to disproving builds that i think are wrong

[–]Bibualb 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think you have a point, and you are not the only one, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpKUTBUjqAE

I agree about the fact that linkens is a waste of money. Simply because you can find items that full-fill the same purpose for a very low cost, as it was already mentioned.

But, i think that people are simply used to play with a linkens. When doing that, you don’t really have to care about mana, squishiness and positioning anymore. Its comfortable but not optimal and, as we all know, dota is a game that rely a lot on cost-efficiency. Because an item does a lot doesn’t mean that other items cant do the same with less gold. Its pretty much the same debate that leads people to rush battlefury on Juggernaut, or use to on Void and PA. Yes it solves farming and mana issues for 4500 gold, but wouldn’t a raindrop and an iron talon do 1/2 of the job for 1/16 of the price ?

Weaver's rush linkens is in my opinion a no-brain build, not because its dum (its actually quite hard for the early game), but because it gives people much less to worried about in their play-style afterwards. When you have to trade-switch + handle bottle-runes for 30-40 minutes, always needing vision, be careful on how you will farm a camp (by not loosing too much hp and mana), it becomes much more of a complicated hero to play.

So there is people that goes the easy way, comon build, easy play, and the others that are trying to make a hero viable. You just have a different purpose while playing, no need to down-vote.

The only advantage that can be arguable is the slot efficiency. You actually solves all weaver's problem with a linkens. Way to greedy in my opinion, especially in those meta, when you need to fight early or finish the game with nothing else than brown boots and a perseverance.

[–]TheDrGooM - Profuse Bleeding[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

As I see it people downvoted my heated delivery over the content of what I said, but yeah.

[–]drock_davis 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

So your point that linken's first is an unnecessarily conservative build in many cases is valid. However your delivery is pretty terrible.

[–]TheDrGooM - Profuse Bleeding[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nailed it

[–]NotJeff6949 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

You definitely don't deserve the downvotes but I do think you're undervaluing Linkin's Sphere. To be fair, a lot of the comments your getting are essentially "everyone builds Linkins n00b. its good," which seems like it would be pretty infuriating.

A lot of the value behind Linkins is being able to farm and split push safely. A lot of teams don't have an initiator that can get around a Linkins very easily for a large portion of the game. Sure, if their entire team gets on you they can probably pop it and disable you but not all of them are going to have blink daggers for a while. A team with Beast Master, Dragon Knight, Legion Commander, Wraith King, Sand King (surprisingly blocked), QoP, or Spirit Breaker as their primary way to get on top of you isn't going to be able to kill you without committing a lot of heroes to it. Even heroes that commonly build into ways to pop Linkin's like Batrider (builds force) have a hard time with it because now they need to farm that item but they also need to stop weaver from farming/split pushing but can't really do so effectively. The idea that cm (mentioned in comments) could jump on you and pop your Linkin's is pretty silly and kind of requires CM to have gotten farm and somehow get behind you with a friend (since she certainly cant kill you alone with no hard stun to stop time lapse).

That being said, I don't think Linkin's is an every game item either, and I question picking it up in the offlane unless their team lineup has a handful of single target disables you really need to get around. Position 3 means you won't really get it online at a timing where there aren't multiple ways to pop it and your damage is mediocre at best. The fact that your team likely has someone else split pushing at Position 1 means that you probably need to fight and Linkin's isn't really great for that unless you already have other items. Morphling doesn't try to fight as soon as he gets Linkins after all. Because of that, I massively prefer getting something like Deso, Solar Crest, Dragon Lance or Diffusal as first big items and rely on invis/Timelapse to allow me to weave in and out of fights. If the other team has more lockdown than that, offlane weaver was probably way to greedy to begin with.

[–]mlyn148Normal skill bracket SeemsGood | dotabuff.com/players/179477591 14ポイント15ポイント  (30子コメント)

Linken's isn't a waste of money... That's a laughable statement

You will probably want Linkens every single game you play Weaver ever unless the enemy has literally 0 targeted spells or you're offlane. And even if you're offlane, chances are you get Linkens for your carry anyways.

I actually cannot get over the fact that you said that, that's like saying Morph doesn't need Linkens because now you just delay your E-blade.

Linkens' whole point is to provide sustain for farm and during fights, especially for Weaver's mana-heavy Shukuchi that he spams. It also provides ample protection so that you don't just get stunned and killed by a Batrider or something, because Weaver is not tanky in the slightest.

Bottle is nice if you're Mid but I'd never just skip Aquila for it unless someone else is building it.

Weaver has fantastic DPS, especially considering the fact that he has an increased chance for procs on things like Mjollnir or Daedalus. He can work out fine as a position 1, and unless you're playing an aura slave position 3, position 1 is where he should be. Also aghs should only be a positon 3 weaver item, never a position 1.

[–]TheDrGooM - Profuse Bleeding[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (29子コメント)

Aight so in your mind there's nothing wrong with the idea of a hero with no farming abilities and a tiny mana pool spending the first third of the game farming a 5000 gold items that gives him average stats for the fucking fact that it's gonna be blocking a single target spell?

Listen. Their fucking crystal maiden will pop your shitty 30 min linkens with her forcestaff right before you get dueled or doomed and killed turning your score from 0-5 to 0-6. Same goes for morphling.

Weaver will 2 shot heroes but that wont happen until he has 3 items and is ahead. Try competing with the enemy pos 1 having your linkens sitting there doing jack shit and not realizing you just wasted 5000 of your team's time and resources for nothing. You sound like someone who would go midas without thinking what the fuck the game's tempo's gonna be.

And a hero that cant flash clear a full jungle is crap at farming and will lose you the game if you run him as a strict pos 1.

Pissed me off man.

[–]mlyn148Normal skill bracket SeemsGood | dotabuff.com/players/179477591 4ポイント5ポイント  (20子コメント)

AHA relax.

Again, you could say the same exact things about Morphling. Morphling has 0 early farming capabilities and arguably can't farm as safely as Weaver can early on. Yet 15-17 minute Linkens if not sooner in a good game is pretty standard on him.

But you're right. I'm sure players like Universe, Arteezy, Fear, Shadow, etc. hate building linkens on heroes because you can just forcestaff - lockdown and kill them

KappaFace

[–]KoroooWhat a nice set of rax... would be a shame if there were... rats 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

Rushing Linken's isnt the the way to go every game but an early perseverance or RoH allows you to stay in lane and farm early on.

[–]TheDrGooM - Profuse Bleeding[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

Or not and go bottle for a third of the price of a perseverance.

[–]KoroooWhat a nice set of rax... would be a shame if there were... rats 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Bottle gives you 2.25 hps and 1.5 mps IF you pick a rune every two minutes. RoH and either Void Stone or rain drops are more expensive but allow you to buid them into somethink useful. Since you build aquilla you don't have massive mana problems and the RoH allows you to stay at your tower if you are heavily pushed.

Weaver mid can work but I prefer him offlane, you are able to trade and get last hits without having to fight a core with an extremely good early / mid. XP is nice but you need a few items before you get your huge power spike. Offlane allows you to steal lh from pulls and harass the carry without taking too much dmg.

[–]TheDrGooM - Profuse Bleeding[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Offlane has always been a thing. That is not what I'm talking about.

Do whatever you want really. I presented a different, effective way of playing an underplayed hero that I believe is just misunderstood by the majority; if you feel like I'm an idiot then fine, we can point at each other and laugh all day repeating ourselves over and over and nothing will happen.

You're like the tenth person today telling me the same thing about the same items. I've studied the hero already, I try shit, don't tell me standard items are the only way to play; I'm sick and tired of getting literally the same argument over and over for the same build.

[–]KoroooWhat a nice set of rax... would be a shame if there were... rats 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think you are an idiot. Weaver can be a strong pick on mid or hard lane. In my opinion the "standard" build is more effective if you want to stay and lane, farm and trade. It always depends on the position you try to fill. Items like bottle or Agh's for example are better on a mid Weaver since you get more out of the utility items.

There isn't a "right" build but several that can be effective and it's always a good idea to be open minded.

[–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]PinkyFeldman 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Weaver scales extremely well with levels and can gank by himself quite well as long as there is no detection.

    With a Wraith Band, branch, and fairy fire he has 72 damage lvl 1 and same stats as an SF with the same items. He wins a right click battle for first blood with lvl 1 shukuchi.

    I think you underestimate his ability to trade harass by playing around Shukuchi cooldowns.

    [–]ajdeemoEarth Spirit -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Aight so in your mind there's nothing wrong with the idea of a hero with no farming abilities and a tiny mana pool

    You know Linkens gives you mana, right?

    [–]Narwhalbaconguyfuck magic 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Weaver isn't the best Dps out there

    True, but he still has amazing DPS. DPS isn't everything.

    position 2 mid that makes space for an actual carry

    Dude, just no...

    Linken's is a waste of money

    LOL. Not true. Not even close. It will save you so many times over. You clearly haven't played Weaver if you think you don't need linken's.

    [–]meikyoushisuiYou win by destroying the Ancient 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It's situational at best -- the item is only picked up in about 1/3 of pro games (and generally by the 23 minute mark or so in them) so while I certainly disagree with your claim that's it's useless or bad, the item isn't a waste of money at all.

    You're probably being downvoted for posting factually incorrect information.

    [–]mdmanowLanaya 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Not getting Linken's Sphere is situational. Most of the time it's really good as a first or second major item.

    1) Almost permanent invisibility + haste which allows you to move, farm, gank all around.

    2) 13 seconds spell block. Glimpse, Ancient Seal, Disruption, X Mark, Hex, Nightmare, Mana Leak, Charge of Darkness, Swap spell almost certain death for Weaver. Just example spells, even Storm Hammer connecting on you can be fatal if enemies have true sight.

    I personally prefer Desolator rush because you can decimate supports in a blink of an eye, but there are games when it's better to go LS first and then Deso or whatever you need.

    If you go LS first, assuming you have RoA and Blight Stone (maybe PT), you will deal decent damage with your three spells. You won't be killing cores that easily, but you will be able to eliminate backline support. What's a SWM or Venge to do if Weaver with Linken's focuses them during mid game fight?

    You're discrediting Linken's way too much. It's a traditional item on Weaver cause it works.

    Just as Puck is a nuker disabler but not the best in any of those categories; Weaver isn't the best Dps out there right out of the gate; has poor stats and doesn't have the best farm-to-carry potential like proper carries do.

    Weaver isn't best DPS carry, but he is unkitable and extremely mobile. Linken's has insane synergy with these points.

    tl;dr Linken's is fine as first or 2nd major item.

    [–]FuzzyDragon77Here to lift your spirits 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Tanking up is your last priority

    On a squishy burst damage hero, tanking up is last? why not buy an item with all around good stats, decent damage, and a way to prevent you from being caught so you can stay slippery? maybe something like a linkens?

    [–]Davepen -1ポイント0ポイント  (8子コメント)

    Linken's is a waste of money.

    Uh... what?

    Have you ever played Weaver?

    [–]TheDrGooM - Profuse Bleeding[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

    I dont know have you?

    [–]Davepen 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

    Yeah he's my 2nd most played.

    It's crazy for me that you think that Linkens is a waste of money on him.

    The regen alone is amazing, let alone the active.

    [–]TheDrGooM - Profuse Bleeding[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Second most played you should know better then. In the sense that if you know and understand the hero you shouldnt be afraid of building from a different angle.

    If your linkens build lets you go 11-3 then try what Imm saying and since you already got the hero mechanics down you should be able to go 17-1.

    [–]Davepen 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

    You obviously adjust as per the game, but you seem to be of the mindset that Linkens on Weaver is garbage, and a waste of money.

    [–]TheDrGooM - Profuse Bleeding[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Linken's is an item that counters certain spells, which makes it inherently a situational item; an item you buy when you have the need to counter something.

    Only by that statement you understand that Linkens is NOT garbage.

    NOW on the other hand if you buy this item, which has a determined use and purpose, when that purpose is not met, just because of it's secondary uses like regen and a bit of stats, then yes. It's garbage and a waste of farm time and money, when that same gold could buy you 1 or 2 items that actually FIT the match you're on.

    You people seem to think that I look at linkens weaver as bad as I would a satanic venomancer. No, you just have to understand that Linkens just cannot be purchased out of habit... Again, every time I see this sad weaver halfway to their linkens in my games I'm just so disappointing knowing how people dont get the hero.

    All items have a use and purpose. They all provide something, unfortunately that isnt good enough for you to buy whatever because they provide something. You need to always look to the best possible option, and you people keep arguing against this concept by defending established builds like linkens on weaver.

    [–]Davepen 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    But you build Linkens on Weaver for the same reasons you build it on Morphling, and that's that you don't really build anything else on the hero that gives you regen.

    I think you highly underestimate the regen than you get from Linkens, it's not just about the active, it's about sustain.

    [–]TheDrGooM - Profuse Bleeding[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I know you never have to go back to base with it. It's a strong passive, I get it. I guess it's not my style, and I dont see it winning games as often.

    [–]Davepen 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I guess it's not my style, and I dont see it winning games as often.

    That's cool, I just find no other item that you build on Weaver gives you the ability to spam your Sekuchi like Linkens does, and that adds to your mobility, survivability and farming speed.

    [–]ajdeemoEarth Spirit -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Linkens gives you 25 damage. Sure, it isn't incredible, but it's a long ways from your claim of "doing no damage".

    [–]FuzzyDragon77Here to lift your spirits -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Also gives you really nice stats, sustain, and an active that synergizes very well with weavers tool kit.

    [–]nepdune -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

    If you disagree that's completely fine, but that's not what downvotes are for.
    I'm not removing any of this by the way, you can continue downvoting if that's what you feel like doing; it doesnt make any of my points less valid. In fact, I'll downvote my own comments, because apparently having a different opinion on Dota is straight out misinformation and should never see the light of day now.

    You're not getting downvoted because you have a different opinion, you're getting downvoted because you're being a dick about that opinion and basically calling everyone else idiots.

    ..waste of Money..
    ..don't even think about that silly stuff please...
    ..showing everyone that you have no idea how the hero works..
    ..downvoted by the hivemind..

    [–]TheDrGooM - Profuse Bleeding[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    If you see a 250 gpm weaver with nothing but a Linkens at min 25 what are you supposed to say.

    I stand by what I said. People also turned on me when I said Midas is dumb and situational on Invoker and if you buy it every game you're doing your team more harm than good.

    A blind, linkens first weaver with no building judgement is to me as stupid as a Legion jungling for 20 minutes straight.

    [–]nepdune 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Right. But not every linkens built on Weaver is built "blind, first and with no building judgement".
    And even for the situations where they are: Why the hate? Your arguments are fine as they are, you can explain your reasons without patronizing the players who might sometimes build items in situations that are not perfectly optimal. The people you "address" might be part of the target group of this sub after all.

    While I agree that people rush Linkens often times without considering their powerspikes and hindering themselves, I would never call Linkens a waste of money, silly and useless on the hero.

    [–]TheDrGooM - Profuse Bleeding[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I only called radiance silly, to begin with. Then, in my opinion it is a waste of money if you weight the cost versus what it provides. Unless it's extremely key because you gotta block doom or something like that, and you're forced to get it there's no reason to; for me at least.

    The build and playstyle Im describing has had huge success rate for me, and every time I see a weaver in a match it's really pathetic and with very little impact; so I'm addressing all those players that clearly do not understand what the purpose of the hero is.

    I'm just speechless nobody here even bothered to think it through. When someone in a high mmr match does something weird, their allies dont flame them, they just watch and see what's up. It may be legit if that guy's doing it.

    [–]Samthefabquoth the raven -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    You do know Linken's has an active that puts it on other people right? Linken's and Aghs can make your retarded carry running in 1v5 pretty hard to actually kill, and both have cooldowns of about 15 seconds, so they get 2 uses in most teamfights. I understand what you mean - rushing Linken's is a shit idea (and I don't do that, I get shit like Solar Crest, Bottle, Aquila, Deso, then aghs/Linken's and then the other), but it still is a good late game item on a supporty weaver, and a decent item by 25 minutes on a core weaver (and 25 mins is doable). You won't output a ton of DPS, but often Weaver is more played around pickoffs than as a DPS machine.

    [–]HellHound989 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yeah no....

    This hero needs to be removed. Already OP

    [–]jabso19Weaver 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    • The biggest tip I would like to share is in the laning phase be sure to use your geminate procs efficiently. If it's coming off cooldown try to get in position to use it to harass the enemy. In the early game that extra right click of harass is HUGE. If you can't use it on an enemy hero use it to secure a last hit, get used to the animation.

    • Also be sure to think about where to aim swarm when jungling. It's length means you can effect two camps. With a bit of luck you can stack camps from far away too. The camps average about 12 seconds to kill the beatles then they will walk out of their camp looking for the source of the damage. If you hit the camp with the beatles at around 40 seconds it can stack the camp if they move the right way. This is not reliable but a bonus efficency, worst case you soften up the next camp a little bit.

    • If you're playing in a situation where if you get disabled once you're dead be sure to adapt and get trigger happy with your ult. Don't forget the ult takes off dust which sometimes on it's own can be enough to get away.

    • dont forget you can ult after death and you'll go back to where you were 4 seconds before death (including hp of course). This does not work on allies with aghs.

    [–]Shek7set sail for fail 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I always end up finding this hero useless. If it is in my team or the others. He can do some damage and be anoying with his ultimate, but after his "Powerspike" he can only kill supports if he doesn't have rapier. But to be honest: I think the people in my games just don't build him right, but that doesn't mean I have an idea.

    [–]jabso19Weaver 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    He definately needs other damage dealers he cannot be the only source of damage. He's like slark but a bit more nuanced and less solo kill potential. He works better if teamfights are chaotic and long. He's not a hero like sven/pa/anti mage who with good intiation or disables from his teammates can destroy teams. He wants to WEAVE in and out of fights. Hitting one hero like a truck, repositioning to hit another hero. He cannot stand in one spot and out right click.

    [–]Shek7set sail for fail 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I think u have good points. Weaver wants to be a pain that isn't focused, but still does a lot of trouble. The enemie should think u are useless, but suddenly your maiden is dead and your rubick got that desolator debuff on his ass.

    [–]AndyKlymacks 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Weaver's movement speed is actually 290 not 390 as written.

    I really like delaying skill points in Geminate Attack until at least 6 or 7 minutes into the game by virtue of just how much more difficult I find last-hitting to be with skill points in it. Also, it means skilling Q is practical for post-laning phase farming/jungling because your beetles keep the neutrals locked down whilst you attack them.

    It's a little bit disappointing how one-dimensionally Weaver is played in pubs. He's almost exclusively run as a DPS machine, but he really does have to farm so much in order to become that very thing. He comes online a lot earlier in pushing via Q and E passive: he can push lanes out very quickly and effectively with Q, W and E combined, and his inherent escape means he can create so much space by forcing rotations to defend towers, and simply W to escape and start again in another lane.

    The Aghs Weaver is also fantastic, and gives a 1000 range Time Lapse on a 16-second cooldown. It's tantamount to the cheese aspect of Aegis and Cheese which - in the late-game - is massive in terms of highground sieges, both offensively and defensively. I'm really surprised this isn't regarded as being as high-impact a spell as an Aghs Reaper's Scythe.

    Anyways, Weaver's a lot more versatile than the standard Linken's/Desolator/insert DPS extensions here build that we're so used to seeing. Hopefully in later patches it'll become more apparent.

    [–]TheDrGooM - Profuse Bleeding[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yeah that's a typo. Fixed now!