上位 200 件のコメント表示する 500

[–]Kahtoorrein 543ポイント544ポイント  (232子コメント)

Street harassment. I know a lot of guys like to brush it off as unimportant, or women being over dramatic, or too sensitive, or just being unable to take a compliment, but it's a massive issue that starts at a horrifically young age. And it's not normally "Hey, you look beautiful today!" kind of compliments. No woman would be bothered by that. And if that's all street harassment was, I doubt we'd even have the term "street harassment". But just a few days ago, a man pulled out his penis, grinned at me, and said "Look at that redheaded pussy!" (I am a redhead). He continued with "I've had five redheaded pussy in my life but I ain't never had no black pussy" and grinned as if this was something to be proud of. And that is what street harassment normally is. Things like that are the norm. If it's not a man pulling out his penis, then it's a man shouting at you, a man following you down the street, a group shouting at you from the car. Can you see why this is a big deal to us?

Side note: A lot of feminists talk about how language shapes our ideas, and a lot of people dismiss it. But look at what that creep called me - "a redheaded pussy". Not a redheaded woman, or a redheaded person. He reduced my entire being to nothing more than a sex organ. That is how he sees me. He does not see me as a woman, or a person, or even human. All he sees me as is something he can put his penis in. How does that not disturb you?

Edit 1: I have a ton of people replying to me and I'm having trouble keeping up while also walking to class. I promise I will get to all of you, it just might take me a while.

Edit 2: u/SalemScout has linked an excellent comic that explains some things about street harassment. My class starts in 10 minutes so I likely won't be doing much replying for the next hour and a half, but I shall return!

[–]TomCosella 147ポイント148ポイント  (19子コメント)

I was once in a bar with a group of female friends (I'm a dude), and the amount of seriously lewd comments and attempted touching that went on was pretty fucking gross. They all said that it was actually less than usual because there was a guy there with them. I handed out my fair share of death stares to creeps that night on their behalf.

[–]ohyaycanadaeh 55ポイント56ポイント  (10子コメント)

Yep, I was surrounded by a group of my guy friends and some tool still walked by me and swept his hand up under my skirt. He was, however, a coward and ran off before I could do anything or point him out to security.

Guys tend to understand it better once they see it first hand.

[–]undeniablybuddha [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

I agree, as a man, I needed to see it first hand. My friends and their daughters and I are very close. They call me uncle even though I'm not related. Anyway the mom and girls went to a local amusement park and I had the day off and was asked to join them. I was meeting them at the park. On my way I'm getting frantic texts from the mom to hurry up because a creepy guy is hanging around. I'm thinking to myself overprotective mother, until I get there. Yes their is a creepy guy very close talking and touching the mom. One of the girls saw me and yelled "uncle Buddha" and ran to hug me. My eyes met the creep, he left pretty quickly after that. I just kept slowly walking towards him glaring at him until he left the park.

That changed my perspective really quick.

[–]SmartAlec105 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

What really sucks is the fact that they do it less if there is a guy there because it means they'll only recognize a guy telling them to stop as a legitimate complaint.

[–]orbitaldan [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I don't think it's about recognition of complaint so much as fear of physical retaliation.

[–]ohyaycanadaeh [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I love my guy friends because they will totally help me out. I usually stand pretty close to them and if someone tries anything, one will put his arm over my shoulders or I'll go hug one of them quickly or rub their back to send a message that seems like we are together.

I am a small lady. I have had men come up to me, pick me up, and not intend to put me down or try to carry me away. With my boys, I don't have that problem.

[–]BathRobeJesus [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Very similar, man.

I'm the protective father figure for a lot of young women (all of whom are my various friends daughters) when I'm out at the popular bars for music.

A few times I've had girls - who were too young to be in the bar in the first place (that's another story) - come up to me and go "hey that guy is being a weirdo, gonna talk to you for a bit because you know my dad/mom."

Once I had the dude come over to us - as in followed the girl over to me, introduced himself to me, and kept trying to spit game. I just started talking to her about Thanksgiving and whose house we were going to that year - plus what dishes we were gonna make. Cue me getting my buds involved in the conversation - for a mental picture, we're all old guys who have been drinking together for 20+ years - who then began to swap recipies and literally cockblock the guy with turkey recipies.

Dude just gave me a salty look and I said "dude, you're welcome over for Thanksgiving (or whatever meal we were talking about)... or were you not trying to stick around much past 6am today?"

[–]UnauthorizedUsername [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

I just got a gym membership with a friend of mine who cancelled her last gym membership because she got so sick of being hit on, ogled, "accidentally" brushed against, etc. She says that most of the reason she's comfortable going to the gym again now is because I (a dude) am going with her and we're doing the same weight routines -- it dissuades the creeps and lets her get her workout in without feeling like a piece of meat.

[–]VivaLaSea [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I can relate. I canceled my last gym membership because of the constant harassment not only from the other patrons but from the gym staff as well. I just work out at home now.

[–]Persomnus [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I feel like women-only gyms need to be a thing. I hear about too many women being scared of the gym because of creeps.

[–]kuavi [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Or get competent staff that will kick out creeps. Segregation isn't the answer here.

[–]BathRobeJesus [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I go out with my friend, his wife, and her friends.

9/10 we let shit slide because we're at a biker bar and we're not the ones to deal with the harassment. That's what the scary guys in leather jackets are for.

Not that I won't drop your ass in a heartbeat but I rather not get violent with people.

Most of the time it's harassment towards my friends wife's friends - usually patrons don't know we're all together and start to get handsy.

Handsy with an unfamiliar woman in a place she's familiar with = lots of scary things happening to you. Especially if the people doing the scary things don't know you.

I straight almost stabbed a guy who put something in my friends wife's drink. He was thrown out by my good friend John before any violence occurred - rumor has it he woke up in a dumpster as the trash guys were loading it up.

[–]princessdaisy91 229ポイント230ポイント  (37子コメント)

I've been downvoted many times on Reddit simply for stating that it exists. It's ridiculous. I've been followed and threatened too many times to take it lightly.

Edit: Wow, look at all the people saying it doesn't exist.

[–]Lost_in_costco [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

To be fair, most of the men who say it doesn't exist is because their frame of mind has absolutely no justification or reasoning to warrant it in the first place. They've never done it, never thought about and never been around people there did. So in their minds, it doesn't. They see them as the Westboro Baptists of men.

[–]princessdaisy91 [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

I know why he wants to think it's not real, but it doesn't make it not real. I really truly want to believe no one would rape or abuse a baby, but I'd be a fool and outright wrong to say those people don't exist.

[–]CHARLIE_CANT_READ [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I think it's less saying it never happens but not understanding the frequency of occurrence.

[–]loukaspetourkas [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

you know, it wasn't until I got a girlfriend with whom I would walk with did I see this. It happens even more when I'm not there.

When she is alone it's more creepy approaches and it makes her feel vulnerable. When I'm with her it's usually cowardly comments made from a car followed by a quick get away. Yeah she never felt in danger but it's still shitty.

Rule of law is great, but in a lot of countries where people can feel comfortable addressing give something as well. You can teach assholes like that the basic lesson that they never learned. If you have nothing nice to say, don't say it and just generally tearing everyone with respect.

unfortunately doing that in most civilized countries gets you in more trouble than its worth, and as long as they walk a fine line, they are doing anything illegal and can go on terrorizing women.

[–]Bronan_the_Brobarian [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Pretty much the same mindset as "I haven't been racist so it doesn't exist"

[–]Socialbutterfinger [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I don't agree with that. My husband would never do this, my male friends would never do this, but they all believe me and believe their wives and other friends that it happens. The couple of guys who didn't believe me we're classic "nice guys."

[–]FeyCGirl [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I mean I've never experienced anything worse than creepy stares (which is admitedly pretty creepy when its 6 guys in very similiar clothing giving you that stare.) so I can understand people not thinking it exists, especially since it likely genuinely doesn't in some places.

[–]dblsails 91ポイント92ポイント  (10子コメント)

I get irritated by any kind of street yelled crap. Even if it's something good. Just hear me out, I'm going about my business no matter if I look like a million bucks or I've just come out the sewers, and wherever you go theres always some guy making a comment. Not a conversation. Just yelling some crap across the street or from a doorway or passing on the footpath. I don't owe anyone shit, and if you don't reply, suddenly you're a bitch. I don't want to have a conversation with every person in the street. Why can't I walk around and mind my own damn business? "I only said hey, god you're a bitch" since when do I owe you anything? The best way to describe it to a man who does this is to imagine at every corner there is one of those people with a clipboard trying to sign you up to something. Everywhere you go. Do you stop to talk to all of them? How long would it take to get really old really quickly? And if you don't stop or look at them, god you're an asshole.

[–]gronke 85ポイント86ポイント  (2子コメント)

The best way to describe it to a man who does this is to imagine at every corner there is one of those people with a clipboard trying to sign you up to something. Everywhere you go. Do you stop to talk to all of them? How long would it take to get really old really quickly? And if you don't stop or look at them, god you're an asshole.

This is actually a really good analogy for me. I have been reading all of these posts and trying to figure out how I can empathize, and now this example has really done it for me. Man, I hate those people and I go out of my way to avoid them.

[–]Anytimeisteatime [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yep. And now imagine that when you say to the clipboard person, "Ha, thanks, but not today..." or nervously glance away and avoid eye contact or slightly change your path to avoid them, they then start screaming, "Fuck you, bitch! Ugly bitch. Wouldn't stick my dick in that anyway, go fuck yourself!" because you didn't stay to talk to them. And then they high five their clipboard buddies and all of them laugh while you walk away with your head down trying not to just break into a run.

[–]Rocks_Heady [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Also take into account the vast majority of those people with clipboards are hostile.

[–]LilyKnightMcClellan [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I feel the exact same way. I just want to walk around and think my thoughts and mind my own business --- and because I'm an anxious mess, I additionally want to believe that no one is noticing me lol. When someone breaks the illusion that I'm invisible to everyone, it throws me off. And it's never other women who break that illusion.

[–]hairola [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

my favourite for when you ignore them is: "you ain't all that anyway", fuck you p.o.s

[–]trinityroselee 34ポイント35ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yep, or when they creepishly stare at you like you're a piece of meat then try to talk. And to people who say it's because you're dressed a certain way, the most scantily dressed thing I've worn is a dress without straps. not a skin tight dress, just a dress without straps that goes down to about a couple inches above my knee.

I'm a relatively conservative dresser and this kind of shit still happens, so no it has nothing to do with what you're wearing.

People also holler when you're wearing PJ pants and a giant oversized winter jacket. Infact, it's happened more then than when I would dress in more revealing clothing.

[–]lucy_inthessky 37ポイント38ポイント  (2子コメント)

I remember a thread where women talked about the first time they were cat-called. He was reading some off and was horrified at how young it started. He asked me the first time I remember, and I think I was around 11. Reading what the women wrote and what they had been told made us both upset. I think that it bothered him even more since we have a daughter and not realizing how young girls are talked to in a sexual/cat-calling way.

[–]princessdaisy91 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Most women experience it very early on. I think I was in 3rd grade having just got done playing in a sprinkler with my year younger female cousin when a car went by honking and screaming "sexy". We were mostly confused, and also scared. We ran inside.

[–]MollyGibson84 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I've had my ass grabbed more times than I care to count. I've also been forcefully pulled away from my friends by some dude grabbing my arm (I was walking behind them) in bars and he wrapped his arms around me and wouldn't let me move. Back then I was a lot more meek than I am now and was trying to gently and politely get him away from me. He kept saying that since my friends hadn't noticed I was gone, they don't care about me like he can. Super fucking creepy and awful. Some other guy finally noticed me trying to squirm away and told him to fuck off.

Now I'd lose it and not even care about the scene I'd make. DON'T. FUCKING. TOUCH. ME.

[–]Sewgrrl 42ポイント43ポイント  (16子コメント)

I am crippled from anxiety related to street harassment. Men have tried to rape me, physically intimidate me, threaten me with their vehicle, throw beers at me, when I have told them I don't appreciate being harassed for my sex. My friend was recently beaten by a stranger who didn't like being told that. If I don't push back when I am cat called, or groped, or followed, sometimes they just get closer. Or keep following and calling me a bitch for not responding. And males who I consider 'friend' have told me I'm just an instigator, and more men are raped in the u.s. than women. That the guys who catcall mean no harm. I hate it and I hate who I have become because of my fear of street harassment. I hate that I would rather not mention it to many people in my life because if I don't tell them about this, i don't have to have it glossed over as no biggie, and my own fault.

It is sad how unaware people can be of the pervasiveness of this issue. And it is heartbreaking when people do nothing despite the evidence.

[–]peanutbuttervibes_ [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Your "friends" have told you some blatant misinformation. Being harassed is never, ever the victim's fault. There are plenty of lovely, feminist men in the world that would definitely have your back on these types of issues! And of course women as well. I hope you get some healing!

[–]Teunski [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

What kind of people do you associate with, jesus christ. Those guys sound like the biggest assholes.

[–]scared2write111 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Is this in USA? I'm not doubting you, I'm just completely and utterly shocked. I have never experienced anything other than a car horn beeping at me when I was walking. I'm an attractive woman and I live in a big city too. This doesn't happen, although I am certainly willing to accept the fact that in my 34 years of life, I just have never witnessed or experienced this because I'm not in maybe a dangerous sub city area with gang activity (maybe that's it?). Honestly your story sounds like this was in Brazil. My hair stylist is from Brazil and she said it's terrible there in terms of women experiencing street harrassment.

[–]Sewgrrl [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

San Francisco, California. There's a lot of class and race tension that has been ramping up with the tech boom I think, and that isn't helping matters.

[–]scared2write111 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Wow. That is absolutely disgusting. I would for sure end up in jail if anything close to that ever happened to me in public. I would go nuts on a guy lol I live in Miami too and it's pretty crazy here. I'm sure it happens in parts of Miami at certain times of the day/night and I'm just not in that world.

[–]Sewgrrl [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's crazy. It's my hometown, and l love so many parts of it but I am getting pushed out by this. I ride my bike a lot, and used to deliver flowers by bike all over the city. That's what destroyed me. I loved so many parts of the job, making people happy, working with flowers, riding my bike in the sunshine, and interacting with so many happy people. But being outside meant i was vulnerable all the time. When the beer was thrown at me, I broke the mirror off the harassers car with a water bottle and rode like crazy. Then had a panic attack. I think that's the most violent thing I've done in reaction to it. It's nice to hear it's less an issue elsewhere. More motivation to leave!

[–]NYArtFan1 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Thank you for mentioning this. I find what women go through on a daily basis to be absolutely horrifying. People often have no idea how pervasive this is and how degrading and demoralizing it can be.

Just yesterday morning, I was on the subway and heard an altercation at the end of the car. As it turns out, some guy pulled his penis out at a woman sitting alone at the end of the car. When she yelled at him, he started stalking away and screaming out the most violent, fucked up things you can imagine. Thankfully, another guy on the train sitting across from her spoke out, the cops were called on the intercom, and a few people including myself took phone photos of the guy and turned them over to the police.

And what was this woman doing? Sitting there. Going to work. Dressed in business attire. Sitting there. That was it. Yet, in the mind of that fucked up guy, it was enough. And as a result, instead of just going to work, she was on the verge of tears, being escorted off the train to give a statement to the police. It was horrifying.

This kind of shit has to stop. Completely. Men, you are the problem if you do this crap. Other men, you are also part of the problem if you encourage this, or stand idly by, or get into the buddy-buddy routine instead of calling it out.

[–]LilyKnightMcClellan 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

I got followed into a restaurant once. I was meeting some friends and we were all chatting in the entrance waiting to be seated and he was standing there leering at all of us. My friends were like, "Ummmm is he with you??" That's when I realized that I'd been followed, which was distressing enough, but the fact that my friends thought I brought him was for some reason humiliating. Ugh.

On another note, I get a lot of "hey baby what's up" comments when I walk around in the city without my kid. It's not street harassment in any way like what you're talking about, but it always throws me off... It happened yesterday and afterwards I mixed up where I was going and went the wrong way three times before sorting myself out (usually I have no problems navigating that area). I'm torn between thinking it's a personal problem that I need to get over and thinking why can't they just stfu and keep their comments to themselves. Like what are they even expecting to happen?

[–]DannyTrejoChestTatoo 27ポイント28ポイント  (19子コメント)

I feel like this is a big city issue. I live in a city of about 100,000 people and people tend to avoid each other while working down the street.

[–]princessdaisy91 30ポイント31ポイント  (3子コメント)

I lived and took public transit in a big city for 6 years and yeah, it was rampant. I'm in a small town now and I have not been cat called once all year, it's great.

[–]Loughla 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

When there's a chance you might get caught by someone you know, or that the person you're fucking with could end up in your social circle, people tend to be MUCH more civil.

Source: life in a town of 1200. grew up in a town of 50, but that doesn't count

[–]UnauthorizedUsername [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Moving from a big city to a small town, now the only thing my wife has been cat-called with was "Hey baby, you got a nice bag of lettuce!"

She was more confused than creeped out, honestly. Also, the guy didn't have any legs.

[–]Kahtoorrein 19ポイント20ポイント  (1子コメント)

I grew up in a city of similar size. It still happened to me. I would have men leaning out of their car windows to shout at me as I walked home from school. I was scared to wear dresses on the days I had to walk home because I knew that men would start cat calling from their cars.

edit: Sorry, incomplete thought. It was certainly less common there than it is here in the city. Maybe once every other week instead of every day. However, I only walked home two days a week, so that may have had something to do with it. The road I walked home on was also a major 4 lane road that went straight through the city, and that may have also been related.

[–]cmlglrslcrd [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Lived in a city of 120k, was crossing the street after dinner with my (much older, father-like) pastor and these dudes in a car thought appropriate to shout at us talking about my "piece of ass" and what a "lucky old man" my PASTOR was. I told them to go shove it, amongst other things, and it just ruined my night. Not only did that happened in front of someone I respect so much, but that it annoyed me to the point where I lost my cool and showed this side Im not proud to the pastor. In another instance I was working on my car in my front yard when my math prof drove by (he was my neighbor) to ask if everything was going accordingly. Again, another car full of dudes thought it was ok to drive by slowly and make comments about my body in a very disgusting way IN THE MIDDLE OF MY CONVERSATION!! In a residential street where there's barely any traffic. It was so humiliating to have that happen in front of my house, in front of my safe space, in front of MY FUCKING 60YO MATH PROFESSOR that I just stopped mid sentence and my eyes filled up with water while my professor was just blank staring at me from his car unable to even say anything. So no, it is not a big city problem.

[–]MamaDoom 16ポイント17ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's a "any town with sidewalks" issue. I grew up in a small town and after I hit puberty I was afraid to walk down the street because I got yelled at by passing cars about my big ass. Doesn't matter that I was 12 and wearing boys' clothes. Now I live in a smallish city and I got yelled at by a dad (that I see every day!) while I was walking to the school to pick up my kid. Now I have enough confidence to tell him to fuck right off, but he doesn't care. He's done it more than once and he'll do it again to some other woman.

[–]Teunski [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Maybe it's an American issue but I never see this in the Netherlands. Only time I ever see people being bothered is by drunks or druggies. Then again I'm not from Amsterdam/Rotterdam or any of the big cities. Generally people avoid each other at all costs.

[–]Tawny_Frogmouth 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

I think it has to do with whether or not a lot of people walk/ bike in your neighborhood, and whether there are a lot of dudes who just sort of loiter in public in their free time. I've lived in a small town where this was an issue, I guess local teens had nothing better to do than circle around in their pickup trucks and yell at people.

[–]wallaceeffect 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's not just a big/small thing; it's definitely cultural, and sometimes in ways we don't want to talk about. It's tied to education level, location, and unfortunately, race and ethnicity.

[–]StuffandThings91 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I live in Chicago and I never see it. I'm not saying it doesn't happen and it's not an issue. Just that I haven't seen it happen in my neighborhood.

[–]ebilutionist 23ポイント24ポイント  (4子コメント)

Male human here, others may not believe you but I just want to let you know that I do. Sorry about what you went through.

[–]darthliki [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I honestly think the reason some men don't believe it is because they couldn't ever fathom doing something like that, and therefore can't possibly imagine that someone else would. It's also sometimes denial out of total embarrassment for their gender.

[–]ebilutionist [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Anyone can be a sexist, regardless of race, sex, gender, social status and pretty much anything you can think of. That's no excuse to bury your head in the sand.

The denial part is silly too - I've never felt the need to be embarrassed by someone else being an idiot, why start now? I didn't grope that woman walking on the street, I didn't catcall that teenage girl passing by. My sex and gender are incidental to who I am, and it should in no way prevent me - or anyone else - from calling out another guy who's being sexist.

[–]hairola [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

it's actually petrifying sometimes. a lot of the times i can brush the wolf whistles and stares off, but the other day i was standing at the train station minding my own fucking business and a man starts going "psssst, oi sexy, psssst", i can hear him, but i ignore him. he starts walking up to me and i'm just thinking for fuck sake. he's all "you're sexy, where are you from?" i carry on ignoring him. "i know you can hear me, i'm talking to you....", so i'm like "yea mate, i'm from here" and he's like "no no no, you've got an accent, you're not from here" and then out of nowhere he starts this whole fucking tirade "fucking women. why are women such liars? why do women think i can't have them if i want them?" then he looks dead at me and says "don't be fooled, i could have you if i wanted to you know. do you think i can't get girls like you?" i am literally just standing there like o.k. & i was actually PETRIFIED at that moment. thank god this man comes up to him and tells him to get away. he stares at me, sucks his teeth and starts walking away, mumbling saying "fucking bitches man, i can get bitches if i want them"

this is just one of many encounters i've had. being groped and touched, being followed, also have men show me their penises, having men get in my face and say degrading things in crowded places that make me feel humiliated, calling me over to their cars, asking how much i am from the night etc.

[–]RicoSavageLAER [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I had a blowup with my friend the other day over this. He seriously could not understand how catcalling is sexual harassment. He's a quiet, meek, self-conscious guy who would never harass anyone like that but at the same time, it was disappointing to know that, when it came to this problem that every woman deals with constantly, he would be no help and couldn't even see the issue. Like, damn

[–]Deltahotel_ [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Guy checking in. That's fucking crazy. I can't believe there are people like that out there.

[–]Helium_3 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I could see people saying it doesn't matter if it was just words, but its often a little threatening.

[–]iRyaaanM [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Thats fucked up, I've never seen or heard anything like this... Worst case I've ever personally known was when a Aussie said 'sexy' to my sister when she was 16/17.

[–]qvickslvr [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I remember a guy shouting at me about my "massive tits"in the street when I was twelve :(

[–]SilentTrainReader [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I don't know if this qualifies as "catcalling", but I hate it when men randomly tell me to smile.

Images you're just walking down the street, listening to some music, with your face on neutral. This, apparently, was super annoying to the old man passing me he had to point it out. "Yeez, why so serious? Just smile already".

Why?! Why do I need to smile. Can you image the cramps after a whole day of walking around with a stupid forced smile on your face.

[–]KhemikalReaction [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Most of the comments I get make me feel a little uncomfortable...just random shouting from passing cars, beeps, 'innocuous' compliments from other pedestrians. Occasionally I get some really sexually charged ones but mostly it's just uncomfortable. One time though - I locked myself out of my apartment in my lounge pants, a tank top, sandals....and no glasses. I had to walk a mile to the office and a mile back (and then back and forth again because they gave me the wrong key) and every honk or shouted compliment...or pelvic thrust...instantly became a thousand times scarier. I didn't have my mace on me, I wasn't wearing shoes I could run in, and I didn't even have my glasses on so I had to focus harder on walking - it was just me and if any of those people decided to do something about what they were saying to me...I wouldn't have been able to do much.

Once I finally got into my apartment I just sat there crying about how completely helpless I felt. I'm not a particularly strong or fast person...but there was something really intense about being stripped down to nothing but me.

[–]trekkie80 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This may be of some help to some women to deal with this problem: http://www.ihollaback.org/

[–]brantspankingnew [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Someone described it as a power struggle. The man is trying to humiliate you. He knows that he can reduce you to an object that he gets to lord over you. I always try to respond "Please do not speak to me that way."

[–]diarrhea_champion [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

harassment is not a product of sexual desire

Respectfully, this statement from the comic is utter nonsense. I'm not saying harassment is not also about exercising power, but you can't uncouple it from sexual desire. Whoever wrote that does not understand men.

[–]zazzlekdazzle 186ポイント187ポイント  (15子コメント)

Implicit bias.

The best way I can explain it is from an anecdote from my own experience. I am a scientist, and as a result consider myself to really be someone who thinks of things carefully weighing all the evidence, I would never have thought I had much if any implicit bias about anything.

I am a geneticist, and originally worked on model-system fly genetics, like many do. Later in my career, I switched fields to work on an organism that causes a disease that exists mostly in the developing world. Suddenly, my colleagues went from being 99.99% white to being at least 50% black and Latino -- because they were Africans and South Americans (though many of them had positions at American and European universities). When I started meeting them and hearing about their work, I found myself feeling a bit surprised that their research was as rigorous and innovative as that of the white dudes in my fly world. I was surprised how dedicated they were to good science and building good research plans.

I had never realized it, but I had just assumed that the reason that genetics was so white was because people of color somehow just didn't have "it." I can't really even say what this "it" was, but probably some sort of mixture of natural talent, good work ethic, and dedication to something abstract like science. I think I probably treated my black and Latino students differently during this time without even noticing it -- at the very least just not making that much of an investment in them because I assumed they just wouldn't make the cut. Not to mention having a different reaction from the beginning getting an email or resume from a LaQuita Jackson or a Carlos Mendez-Herrera as opposed to a Madison Wilson or a Jeremy Adams.

If, while a fly biologist, someone brought the idea up to me that I was judging people based on their race I would have said they were insane, I am very liberal in my politics and consider myself to be highly aware of the social issues of race, not to mention being a hyper-rational (or so I thought) scientist, as mentioned above. In fact, I bet I would have said that if a black student ever showed any real interest, they would get all sorts of special treatment and be promoted beyond their abilities. I would never have thought that maybe the reason those students didn't stay on in my lab or my field was because they didn't feel welcome and could sense that I (and many others) didn't believe in them or had patronizingly low expectations. Or maybe never even got in the door in the first place because of this issue. It was a real wake-up call.

These are the same things happen with women in all sorts of circumstances. In my own field, just the type of issue I am illustrating here with my anecdote has been supported with actual research. An article in PNAS, "Science faculty’s subtle gender biases favor male students", illustrated the issue very well. Although this article speaks only to a specific type of case (hiring a recent college graduate for a gateway position in science), I do think it has broader implications to other circumstances and fields. And it certainly speaks to the idea of how one decision can have a cascading effect on someone's life or career. Reading the article filled me with "aha" moments about my own experiences, also with implicit bias against women, from both sides.

Although pitched for humor, I think the sketch of Jimmy Kimmel giving Hillary Clinton advice on how to be an effective political speaker is a good illustration of how this issue can affect women.

(EDIT: I should also add that I am actually married to a Latino scientist, and I am sure I would have pointed to that in my defense of having any bias.)

[–]Virginth 43ポイント44ポイント  (2子コメント)

Thank you for explaining this so well. So many people believe that since you can't legally openly discriminate, that sexism and racism are pretty much gone, but they very much are not.

[–]ThalanirIII 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Definitely true. But it can't be argued as something that only happens to white people or males. A case in point would be the stories you often read on reddit of the single dad who gets stared down by the soccer-moms and who has to prove that children he is with are his children.

That's not to say that it doesn't happen to non-whites/women, etc. It's definitely more prevalent against those groups. But to say it's only those groups affected would be wrong.

[–]zazzlekdazzle [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's such a difficult problem to deal with since, by definition, anyone who is perpetrating this kind of bias against someone in a negative way has no idea they are doing it.

[–]NUMBERS2357 26ポイント27ポイント  (6子コメント)

The only thing that bothers me about the whole "implicit bias" thing is that people don't concede it affects men as well. Men are seen as more likely to be violent, aggressive, etc, and this has various negative effects - men being more likely to get longer jail sentences for the same crime, violence against men not being taken seriously, boys in school getting suspended more, etc. Even if people concede this, they often say it's justified, or it's not a big deal.

I guess this is part of a larger issue, that I think that unlike race, gender issues are more complicated than one side being "privileged" and the other "oppressed". It's more two-sided, even if on net women have it worse. But people talk about it that way.

[–]Tawny_Frogmouth [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

A lot of feminist concepts come out of academia and would be best understood as lenses for analyzing culture and interrogating our own assumptions. Unfortunately, a lot of people seem to have trouble grasping the idea that you can criticize or encourage something without saying "there oughta be a law!"

  • Criticism of books, TV, etc doesn't mean that nobody is allowed to enjoy that thing ever. It means that we might be able to learn something about our society by taking a close look at those things.

  • When feminists talk about small inequalities-- i.e. whether or not women artists are included in galleries, or the terms people use to address each other during small daily interactions, we don't mean that those small things are the biggest deal ever or that they're more important than other issues. Instead, we're encouraging people to examine the biases that might be present in mundane aspects of daily life. This is what's meant by the phrase "the personal is political."

  • The rhetoric of privilege isn't about somehow ranking and segregating people. It's asking everyone to consider how their experiences in life are shaped by identity. If you are saying something like "sexual harrassment isn't real, I've never seen it," someone who mentions your privilege is saying "do you think the circumstances of your life might have kept you from seeing the events that I see?"

Basically, the message of feminism is often "have you considered that there's another way of looking at this?" This is especially true when you see feminist critiques of culture, the arts, or historiography. Instead of interpreting these critiques as negative and attacking, think how much more interesting life is when we take care to notice complexities and alternative interpretations!

[–]ButtmanNaNaNaButtman [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Unfortunately, a lot of people seem to have trouble grasping the idea that you can criticize or encourage something without saying "there oughta be a law!"

Essentially, "I have the legal right to be an asshole, so I will exercise that right to the fullest extent possible."

[–]Mrs_Seagull 252ポイント253ポイント  (192子コメント)

Taxes on female hygiene items.

[–]DrugsOnly 153ポイント154ポイント  (46子コメント)

On a similar note, insurance not covering birth control properly. I don't even consider myself a feminist and that pisses me off.

[–]Crocoduck_The_Great 38ポイント39ポイント  (4子コメント)

Unless you work for a religious entity, this isn't a thing any more. All health insurance providers are required to provide birth control at no cost. If yours isn't they are breaking the law and you should report them.

EDIT: To add to this, they have to cover many forms of birth control. IUD, shots, patches, pills, etc. not just the pill.

[–]Broodd 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

Assuming it's not a short term healthcare plan, or a plan purchased before some time in 2010. If you got an insurance plan before that date in 2010 they don't have to cover contraceptives.

Also, some insurers have plans that specifically omit contraceptives. If you're in one of those plans they do not have to pay for it.

[–]Crocoduck_The_Great [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

a plan purchased before some time in 2010. If you got an insurance plan before that date in 2010 they don't have to cover contraceptives.

Every health insurance plan I've ever had updated every year. I did not realize there were plans that stayed static as I've never seen one. I am not allowed to stay on my 2016 plan for example, I have to pick a 2017 plan for next year or lose coverage.

Also, some insurers have plans that specifically omit contraceptives. If you're in one of those plans they do not have to pay for it.

Link to an example? I was under the impression these were not allowed anymore under the ACA (to the irritation of people arguing it was making them pay for coverage they did not need/want). Attempting to google it, I only see religious exemptions.

[–]SirApatosaurus 71ポイント72ポイント  (20子コメント)

Agreed. You can debate over whether hygiene products should be tax exempt, but there is no reason for birth control to not be covered. When you have many other benefits of birth control, along with the main one of family autonomy for the woman, it's silly that it's not covered.
Even the terrible argument of "Just don't have sex you heathen" doesn't really work as being on birth control has numerous other health and QoL benefits, regardless of whether she's sexually active or not.
But then again there's the problem of expecting insurance companies to play nice and be decent human beings. Good luck with that.

[–]papercrane12345 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The thing with birth control being covered, even if it was JUST for birth control, is that it still saves the insurance companies and government hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not more, on unplanned pregnancies each year.

[–]_All_Bi_Myself_ 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

I have endometriosis and I have to look at the insurance plans of places I might want to work so I know they'll cover my birth control and occasional surgery. Kinda sucks and I'm not even a feminist.

[–]elcaminotoulouse [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I'm curious that as a woman you say you're not a feminist. No disrespect intended at all, I thought feminism meant that you thought every gender should be treated equally. Do you disagree with that?

[–]AlaskanOverlord[S] 16ポイント17ポイント  (1子コメント)

YES! This one is so true. In Canada, we've eliminated tax on feminine hygiene products, and I couldn't imagine a more common-sense legislation.

[–]thr0w123away456 7ポイント8ポイント  (24子コメント)

Why female hygiene items especially?

[–]Lost_in_costco [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I think it has to do with women citing them as medical products and the government citing them as hygeine products. One gets taxed the other doesn't.

[–]AOEUD 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

It matches the question. I can almost guarantee the poster is opposed to taxes on certain other things too.

Most necessities are untaxed in Canada but one time I had to pay tax on soap...

[–]Gaydolf_Shitler_ 31ポイント32ポイント  (105子コメント)

Saying that you shouldn't put taxes on things just because they are necessary is like saying you shouldn't put taxes on food since we need it. Doesn't matter whether or not it's necessary or not, if you buy something part of that money has to go back to the government.

[–]fweilatan 91ポイント92ポイント  (19子コメント)

I absolutely understand that argument, but it's more appropriate for feminine hygiene products to be compared with other healthcare items. For example, prescriptions are non-taxable. Diabetes test strips are non-taxable in a lot of states because it is a medical good. Why aren't tampons and pads considered medical goods? Why are adult diapers non-taxable in most states but tampons and pads aren't? It's inconsistent and doesn't make sense, and leads a lot of people to believe there is a harsh double standard against feminine hygeine products.

[–]NUMBERS2357 9ポイント10ポイント  (11子コメント)

I think it's arbitrary what's a "medical good". I mean, toilet paper is taxed, right? It's also necessary for hygenic reasons. Is it non-medical because almost everyone uses it instead of less than half of people?

[–]fweilatan 14ポイント15ポイント  (9子コメント)

I believe toilet paper is taxed. And that's why it sucks when people simply argue for tampons and pads, because there are so many people that will just come out and disregard all arguments because, well, TOILET PAPER IS TAXED, and TOOTHBRUSHES ARE TAXED, so women should just stop whining! But I think people will find that women don't want special treatment, we just don't want to be disproportionately taxed for necessary items since we, too, have to buy toilet paper and toothbrushes. And, probably most of us don't agree that those taxes are okay, but tampon tax isn't. If there are women claiming that everything else should be, but not pads and tampons, then they may be Tumblrinas and pointless to this argument. But my argument might not align with everyone in here because I'm just a libtard who believes in more income tax and less sales tax.

[–]mikekozar_work 41ポイント42ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thing is, most places create tax exemptions for exactly that reason. Thirty-one states and the District of Columbia exempt most food purchased for consumption at home from the state sales tax. So if you live in a state that considers necessity a good reason to not tax food, then there's precedent for necessity being a good reason not to tax hygene products. QED.

[–]hobnobbinbobthegob 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

But Mississippi and Alabama don't exempt necessities from taxes... and we all want to be more like Mississippi and Alabama, right? RIGHT???

[–]nliausacmmv 21ポイント22ポイント  (10子コメント)

I don't know where you live, but in most places there are no sales taxes on food.

[–]iclimbnaked 9ポイント10ポイント  (9子コメント)

Tennessee in the USA. Sales tax is on food and groceries. Plenty of other states do it too.

[–]nliausacmmv 4ポイント5ポイント  (6子コメント)

Wow that sucks.

[–]iclimbnaked 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

No state income tax, im happy to pay 9% sales tax on groceries haha.

Point is sales tax on food isnt some taboo thing, it happens in lots of places. Its probably more common to not have to but its not viewed as some untaxable item. Looked it up 14 states pay sales tax on groceries.

[–]weealex 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

... I've got state income tax and over 9% sales tax

Fucking Brownback.

[–]nighttimepurple 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think it's less to do with the actual money involved, and more to do with the fact that the reason for not removing the taxes is because it is considered a "luxury item". At least that's why it annoys me.

[–]jonnyfgm 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

is like saying you shouldn't put taxes on food

The UK and most of europe don't tax food unless it's considered luxury

[–]witch-finder 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not sure where you live but unprepared groceries are untaxed in most states.

http://blog.taxjar.com/states-grocery-items-tax-exempt/

[–]ECGuiseppe 19ポイント20ポイント  (20子コメント)

I think the argument is more on that the tax puts an unfair burden on females. Everyone needs to buy food, but only 50% of the population need to buy female hygiene products.

[–]Publix_Deli 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

My wife doesn't work, so I'm the one buying tampons. Plenty of men pay the tax too.

[–]TheRickiestMorty 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

so why even stop at taxes?

[–]ECGuiseppe 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

What do you mean?

[–]TheRickiestMorty 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

the argument is that women are at a financial disadvantage because they have to buy those products. so this leads people to demand that taxes shouldn't be paid on those products in order to even out the disadvantage.

but you could take the exact same argument for the whole price of these products since there still is a financial disadvantage even if there were no taxes.

so to rephrase (my already downvoted)question: what is the difference in the argumentation between no taxes and no costs at all?

edit: not downvoted anymore. so I guess I was able to clear up some misunderstandings

[–]Mulan__Rouge 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why is it prescription medication and adult diapers are tax exempt when pads are not. They are all three health necessities. So why is it ok to tax health products for women but not the health products for everybody

[–]partofbreakfast 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I, for one, would love to get free feminine hygiene products.

[–]ShiaLeboof 6ポイント7ポイント  (12子コメント)

The only taxed food is prepared food, like from a restaurant.

[–]Publix_Deli 5ポイント6ポイント  (11子コメント)

Maybe where you live. I can go find a grocery store receipt and show you the taxes if you want.

[–]UnnamedNamesake [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I think you're paying for quality. I tried a man's disposable razor on my legs and it burned for days.

ShoeOnHead does a good job of explaining this.

[–]helkar 192ポイント193ポイント  (72子コメント)

Trigger warnings. There are some very real consequences to people with certain mental issues that trigger warnings can avoid. Severe PTSD, for example, can be triggered and lead to pretty intense mental and physical responses. Someone who was violently raped might take great care to avoid talking about it outside of well-structured environments (therapists office or whatever) and they would appreciate the option to remove themselves from the conversation.

Before anyone jumps down my throat, I would like to preemptively agree that the phrase "trigger warning" has become diluted in public discourse and now often serves as a code for "this might hurt your feelings." That use is not appropriate as far as I am concerned.

edit: just realized that the question says "gendered" issue. This isn't really limited to any gender, but i already typed it all out.

[–]Joonmoy 80ポイント81ポイント  (1子コメント)

the option to remove themselves from the conversation.

Often, people just want to know what's coming so they're able to prepare themselves. Used in that way, trigger warnings could lead to more people approaching potentially traumatic subjects, not fewer.

[–]helkar 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's very true. I did say remove, but that's certainly not the only option for people who suffer from these sorts of things. Like I said, I am not speaking from experience, so I may overlook some relevant things.

[–]AgentElman 42ポイント43ポイント  (9子コメント)

The problem is the term trigger warnings. No one objects to movie ratings. No one would be happy if you heard the title of a movie and then while watching discovered it was a romcom or horror movie or whatever you don't want to see.

Likewise conservatives demand warnings for school kids. They demand to be told about books and movies so they can decide if their kid can be exposed to them. Or health class.

People want to know these things all of the time. But if you call it a trigger warning or it is not about protecting conservative Christian values they decide it is terrible.

[–]silverrabbit [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I explained to some folks that trigger warnings are a lot like the warnings before the movie. If you are about to have a conversation with sensitive topics, it's nice to warn people about it.

[–]lucy_inthessky 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think it's a very overused term and that people self-diagnose with PTSD or anxiety attacks, etc...which is infuriating. Those are serious issues, and shouldn't be used for attention.

I was listening to a podcast the other day (one from NPR), and the host gave a trigger warning for bullying. NOTHING was described, just that the person was bullied...and the host felt as if she needed to add the trigger warning. It was so stupid.

[–]a_statistician [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

At the same time, even people who don't have PTSD appreciate a warning if there are going to be descriptions of graphic violence, rape, etc. I wouldn't want to be in a group setting and have to watch a video of a beating or rape or something without a warning and knowing what was coming. I don't have PTSD, but I do tend to have strong emotional reactions to violence, and if I can prepare myself a bit, I'm less likely to embarrass myself in a group discussion after the fact.

[–]Random_K 116ポイント117ポイント  (7子コメント)

Representation of women in TV and films (e.g. the Bechdel test https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test)

If an alien was watching earth TV they might conclude that most humans are male, and women die young and don't talk much.

The role models people see in the media affect their career and life choices. I don't expect the media to transform society but it could stand to reflect it more often.

[–]Joonmoy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah, this is not just a case of police/war/action movies being popular, and distorting the statistics – children's shows have more than twice as many male characters as female ones. Furthermore, women in family-oriented shows are three times as likely to be thin and scantily clad, compared to the men – whatever else they're doing, the women have to be sexy and pretty. (Sources)

I've read accounts from kids who were shocked to find out that there are as many men as there are women in the world, because all their life, media had shown them that women were a minority.

Here's a quote from someone who took a look at the local movie offerings:

According to Fandango and some back-of-the-envelope math, excluding documentaries and animation, there are 617 movie showings today — that's just today, Friday — within 10 miles of my house. Of those 617 showings, 561 of them — 90 percent — are stories about men or groups of men, where women play supporting roles or fill out ensembles primarily focused on men. Thirty-one are showings of movies about balanced pairings or ensembles of men and women. Twenty-five are showings of movies about women or girls.

If I were limited to multiplexes, as people are in many parts of the country, the numbers would be worse. In many places, the number would be zero. (...) I want to stress this again: In many, many parts of the country right now, if you want to go to see a movie in the theater and see a current movie about a woman — any story about any woman that isn't a documentary or a cartoon — you can't. You cannot. There are not any. You cannot take yourself to one, take your friend to one, take your daughter to one. There are not any.

[–]Goddamnpassword [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Also the Becdhel test isn't an end all be all, and isn't meant to be test of a specific films or tv shows portrayal of women. It is a commentary on the way media in general portrays women. That they exist as supporting characters for men. One of my favorite movies "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels" fails the Bechdel test but it is an amazing movie and the female lead is the best thing about the movie.

[–]Splinter_Cat [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

To add to that, the way female characters are written. I like very few of them because they tend to be so unreasonable/irrational. I have to skip over several episodes of Scrubs, for example, because one of Turk's bosses is so horrible(making him late for his own wedding just because she wasn't invited, seriously?). And it gets especially bad in relationships, which has pretty much left me hoping against any relationships happening in shows I watch.
Oh, and when shows/movies try to be about "strong female characters" but just end up trying to remind you every moment they can that "look, she's strong and she's a GIRL" which is just insulting. Give me more Ripleys and less "girl power!"

[–]Leto2Atreides [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The role models people see in the media affect their career and life choices.

I agree that women are represented awkwardly and unequally in media, but this particular phrasing of the argument that I've quoted is absolutely terrifying. This angle uses the exact same reasoning that every totalitarian dictator uses to control thought and opinion in his subjects, justifying his behavior with the need to secure "morality" and "social values". This angle can be used with frightening ease to justify censorship and other crackdowns on freedom of speech and association. It really makes my skin crawl when people start saying stuff like this, that we "need" to control what people see to control what they think. Of course, everyone making this argument thinks they're fighting for the greater good. Even the totalitarian dictator and his loyal brownshirts.

[–]dontknow_anything [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

There should be more in TV and films but not just there to complete a token card. There should be more variety of characters, and specifically flesh them out more. Stereotypical characters are fine and dandy but try to move away from stereotypes. Appearance of stereotypes isn't bad, they exists for a reason but art is in creating more stereotypes, more character templates and moving from the previous ones.

At the same time, all shows shouldn't be forced to conform to a specific idea. My major issue with SJW (left or right) is that for forcibly rigging the freedom of expression. And the always ongoing shaming and defamation of certain ideas for simple reason they exist. A show should be allowed to be bad, horrible. Allow people to create shit, love that shit or criticize that shit.

Also,I am from a country that inherently has higher female representation in popular TV series.

[–]SalemScout 40ポイント41ポイント  (3子コメント)

Catcalling.

A lot of people don't take is seriously because the either think it's: A) not a big deal, or B) it's a compliment.

But truthfully, it's rude and demeaning and is a form of harassment. Worse is that young children who hear it believe it to be the norm; leaving young girls to believe that their bodies are not their own and that their sole purpose is to be admired by the male gaze, and young boys don't understand that what they're doing is disrespectful.

[–]hairola [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

the sad thing is when i see these young girls getting really giddy and giggly when boys catcall them because they don't really know any better and just think it's nice that they're getting the attention

[–]SalemScout [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It starts out as novel; it's a sign of womanhood when men start to notice a girl. So a lot of girls dismiss it or actually like it.

And then you realize it happens to every woman. I'm not special, I'm not prettier than anyone else.

Suddenly you see that these men aren't "appreciating" you. They don't know you, they don't expect you to talk back. They make the same noises at you that they make at a nice car. You are an object to them, nothing more.

It's a sad cycle.

[–]Ratchet1332 76ポイント77ポイント  (5子コメント)

ITT: "This is a real issue."

"My one anecdotal experience says otherwise."

[–]TenNinetythree 53ポイント54ポイント  (30子コメント)

I follow Ellen Pao on Twitter and she often retweets things in favor of abolishing hiring based on cultural fit. Imho this is very important as a lack of "cultural fit" is a pretty common reason not to hire minorities and mostly a way to act on biases.

[–]Isord 39ポイント40ポイント  (13子コメント)

I could see how that could be used as cover for firing or not hiring based on race, but at the same time I think legitimately fitting into the culture of a company is really important so I don't think you could just "abolish" it.

[–]RazarTuk[🍰] 13ポイント14ポイント  (2子コメント)

In short, -isms aren't inherently bad. As an example, it might technically be ablist to say that quadriplegic guy in the wheelchair can't get a job in a warehouse, but it legitimately makes sense to want someone who'll be able to move boxes.

[–]NUMBERS2357 26ポイント27ポイント  (1子コメント)

I find this questionable from her - I remember she gave an interview saying that if someone doesn't share her views on "diversity" they wouldn't hire them. You could take this to mean "if they're mean to black people" but honestly I think it's code for having a certain set of political and cultural beliefs. And has as much to do with using the right buzzwords, as anything else.

[–]Br0metheus [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

"I value diversity. Oh, you don't think exactly like I do? Well, we can't have that, now can we?"

[–]GGCrono 120ポイント121ポイント  (20子コメント)

Pretty much everything people think of as a "tumblrism" is a legitimate issue, and 90% of the things that people bring up as examples of "those wacky SJWs" are either taken out of context, attempts (often poor attempts) at satire, or just out-and-out trolls. There's always people who get overzealous about their causes, but those are the exception, not the rule.

Sometimes, I feel like some people go looking for statistical outliers just so that they can parade them in front of the usual crowd and feel vindicated.

[–]fuknlindey 39ポイント40ポイント  (4子コメント)

Usually you can have a fair discussion about even the most radical discussions, I've found, as long as you're open minded and looking to discuss.

The issue I've found on tumblr is that everyone is so emotionally charged by these issues that they're always looking to insult, argue, manipulate, etc rather than discuss. Everything explodes when it's really down to reaching a point of understanding the argument, not necessarily agreeing with it.

[–]schwagle [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Usually you can have a fair discussion about even the most radical discussions, I've found, as long as you're open minded and looking to discuss.

The issue I've found on tumblr is that everyone is so emotionally charged by these issues that they're always looking to insult, argue, manipulate, etc rather than discuss. Everything explodes when it's really down to reaching a point of understanding the argument, not necessarily agreeing with it.

All of that applies to reddit most of the time too.

[–]SonnyBlack90 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

That's tumblr in a nutshell.

"Im a radical feminist."

"I'm a radical feminist with a slightly different view on one issue."

"You're a fucking piece of shit then and i hope you die."

[–]luvdisclover 46ポイント47ポイント  (19子コメント)

safe spaces are just clubs where people that have a lot in common can feel safe talking to eachother and venting

its not that big of a deal

[–]Chernograd 13ポイント14ポイント  (3子コメント)

4chan is basically a safe space for... for... whatever the hell those people are!

[–]kutuup1989 15ポイント16ポイント  (12子コメント)

I wouldn't have a problem with them if there wasn't such resistance to people who want to form exclusive clubs of other kinds. I mean, what is a women's "safe space" if not an exclusive women's club? No problem with that in my opinion, if you want to form a club and pick and choose who is and isn't allowed in, that's absolutely fine. But try forming an exclusive men's club and watch how quickly you're called a misogynist. If we want to encourage people to form exclusive clubs, we have to allow people to exclude or include in any manner they want. You can't have a system where it's acceptable to exclude one group, but have other groups exempt from exclusion.

[–]Ratchet1332 13ポイント14ポイント  (9子コメント)

The problem is that the people who have issues with male-exclusive clubs as an idea are fringe feminists with no credibility. Reddit, however, loves to use the fringe feminists to describe feminism as a whole.

[–]-Gabe [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Its because the fringe of both sides of any issue will scream loudest. So no matter what the issue is, the great swath of people in the middle only usually hear about the most radical of individuals.

[–]kutuup1989 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

Does that not demonstrate a broader problem faced by the feminist movement? Why do so many people think fringe feminists are representative of feminism as a whole? Because they're the only ones we ever seem to hear from. Why are they given so much air time, so many column inches and such a platform if so few other feminists agree with them?

[–]Ratchet1332 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

They aren't. They're what any anti-feminist media focuses on. Hell, that's what any non-feminist media will focus on, it makes more money.

Why don't we ever focus on the Muslims that don't commit terror acts? Or the black people that don't commit crimes? It's not because there are less of them, it's because it's less interesting and conteoversy creates more of a reaction.

The fringe is always the loudest. WBC, KKK, the Tea Party, PETA. All fringe, all loud. And they will always be in the headlines.

[–]Metalmorphosis 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

The only time I've ever seen people get upset about a men's only club is when it's tied to a service or activity that can be enjoyed by both genders. For example, about a decade ago they built a golf course in my area. It was the only place to play golf in 100 miles. And they made it a men's only golf course. People were pissed, women like golf too and were excited about it opening! They kept in men's only for about a year and then changed it to be open to everyone. The same thing happened in my community with the only gun range.

But there are plenty of other men's only clubs and fraternities that exsist here and no one bats an eye. They are a great way for men to connect with each other and have their own activities.

[–]HarrysonTubman [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I feel like this is the kind of thing that probably makes sense but has gotten way out of hand. Like to have a group where survivors of sexual assault or abuse from an SO can meet and discuss without fear of judgement and safety is probably a good thing.

But when they start having rooms full of coloring books, puppy videos, and play doh for people that were "triggered" during a speech by Christina Hoff Sommers, it makes the entire thing look foolish and immature.

[–]MegaTrain [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

The existence of "rape culture", and its impact on society (on everyone, not just on women)

People hear the term and assume it means something trivial and false like "rapists always get away with it" or something like that, when in fact it is a lot more subtle and complicated.

Rape Culture is basically a set of interrelated cultural beliefs that encourage male sexual aggression in a variety of ways, and support violence against (primarily) women.

For example:

  • Regarding violence as sexy and sexuality as violent
  • Viewing rape as a compliment on a woman's attractiveness (or an insult, "you're so ugly/fat, nobody would even rape you")
  • In romance novels/romantic movies, the depiction of the "irresistible unbridled passion" stirred up in a male by a beautiful woman, to the point where he "can't resist" ripping off her clothes and slamming her up against the wall
  • Men using the language of rape to establish dominance over each other (in online gaming, etc)
  • Resisting prison reform, because of the belief that men deserve to get raped
  • How common sexual assault really is (some estimate 1 in 6 women are sexually assaulted in their lifetime)
  • Tasking victims with the burden of rape prevention (telling women that they have to constantly police their clothes/behavior/etc so that they don't "bring it upon themselves")
  • Blaming the victims of rape (tragically routine, including judges blaming children for their own rape)
  • Focusing on the potential impact on the rapist (see college athletes) instead of the impact on the victim
  • Media using euphemisms for rape (an adult "had a relationship" with a 13-year old?? No, he raped her.)
  • The idea that only certain kind of people rape
  • The idea that only certain kinds of people get raped
  • The idea that sex workers can't be raped
  • The idea that wives (or long-term girlfriends) can't be raped
  • The pervasive narrative of "masked stranger in the bushes" rape, instead of the (far more likely) scenario of being raped by someone you know
  • The pervasive insistence that false rape reports are common (when in fact they are no more common than false reports of other crimes)
  • The idea that a "real rape victim" should react in a certain way (either immediately or long after), and if she didn't, that she's lying
  • The idea that a rape victim who reports to the police is always believed and well-supported (ha!)
  • Ignoring the fact that a rape victim is frequently re-victimized by the lengthy, invasive investigation, with little likelihood of justice
  • Hospitals leaving thousands of rape kits in storage, without testing
  • The pervasiveness of street harassment and groping on public transportation
  • The pervasiveness of rape jokes
  • Calling people who object to rape jokes or other aspects of rape culture "oversensitive"

I could probably continue this list indefinitely.

I'm sure you have objections to some of these examples, but what we're really talking about with regard to "rape culture" is the cumulative impact of all these things, and the way they all interact and build upon each other.

[–]guto8797 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I think that like most issue in this thread it comes down to misunderstanding the term. Some people may hear "rape culture" and believe you mean that all males are rapists, that society congratulates rape, that women can't walk anywhere without being raped etc, and they criticise based on this interpretation.

Just like "feminism", which adopted multiple meanings, from people who fight gender inequality, to people who focus on female issues, to those crazy ones who defend all males should be castrated at birth.

[–]ThirdAmbiguousColor 61ポイント62ポイント  (6子コメント)

ITT: Women giving reasonable explanations to complex issues, with neckbears angrily refuting them through emotional responses.

[–]schwagle [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That's how it generally goes whenever reddit discusses the topic of feminism.

[–]anonanimall [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I'm finding it somewhat upsetting to read, although I honestly don't know what I was expecting. I know Reddit apparently trends younger and male, but seeing how women's perspectives are being shot down even in a thread about feminism goes to show you how deep these sorts of issues run. Really disappointing.

[–]Codepixl [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Neckbears

Now I can't get the image of a tiny bear wrapped around someone's neck out of my mind

[–]jwaldo [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I clicked on this thread half for the insights on social issues, and half for the angertainment value of the inevitable neckbeard rage-storm.

It's delivered on both.

[–]nursejacqueline 61ポイント62ポイント  (12子コメント)

The fact that all of the top comments on this post are followed by people arguing that they aren't valid...

[–]mizanona 28ポイント29ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yep. My favorite was the thoughtful post about implicit bias and some guy immediately commenting to whine about how it's hard to be a man and minimizing the experience of minorities. It wasn't even relevant to the discussion, and no one was denying that implicit bias harms everyone

[–]cartzo [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

well maybe they aren't valid, have you actually read them and thought about them?

[–]Ibney00 16ポイント17ポイント  (4子コメント)

People having differing opinions on certain subjects is a bad thing now?

[–]sirrahsar_a [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Workplace gender equality.

Story:I'm a full time Ergonomic Specialist for a large, multi-site manufacturing company (female, 25). There is another full time site ES at another facility (male, 40s). There is a part time ES (3 days a week) at their 3rd manufacturing facility (male, 50s). There is a very part time ES (40 hrs/month) at their 4th facility (male, 50s).

During a company-wide Health and Safety meeting, (where all sites and the health and safety leadership team come together to discuss safety standards, metrics, etc.) a new metric was being proposed for the ergonomics program. A metric I had been introduced to previously and would have a strong effect on how I do my job.

The Corporate Safety Manager presented the metric, and at the end of the presentation asked for input from the ergonomic specialists by name, all 3 of them.

There are four of us.

I was not acknowledged.

The other three were.

Mind you, I had, not 45 minutes before, presented a lengthy ergonomics update. Along with just one of the other specialists.

The CSM and I had met numerous times and I had presented to the team on multiple occasions. But he chose not to include me when asking for input on this metric.

Now, usually, I let these things slide. Usually I don't speak up for the fact that when I am standing next to my male coworker (not an ergo expert) and telling another employee about ergonomic standards, that employee looks to my male coworker for confirmation of what I'm saying.

Nor do I speak up when I have an employee tell me they agree to disagree with my analysis and then agree with my boss (male) when he gives them the same information.

And I also let it slide when I'm making a point during a meeting and get interrupted by my male coworkers.

I'm sorry that this turned into a rant. It only happened recently and this is the first time I've really had a chance to share.

[–]Riggybee 8ポイント9ポイント  (14子コメント)

Gender in general, along with not being the same as assigned sex. I know it sounds stupid, and trust me, there are some out there that scream for attention. But if you don't fall into societals expectations of what gender you should be, you get a bit confused. I was told a lot I was a dyke, a cross dresser, etc. Because I liked to dress a bit more masculine. It was comfortable, and i don't feel any connection to the feminine parts of my body. However, I have no desire to be male. There is a whole spectrum of genders out there, that are valid. And even if you don't believe in them... If it makes someone else feel more comfortable with their body, who are you to take that away from them?

Yes, it's fucking stupid that people are screaming that they're "triggered" because they don't have the whole spectrum of genders at the doctors office. There is biological sex- which is necessary for your medical care- and there is gender, which is what you feel comfortable with. I just wish people would use more common sense. Idk, sorry maybe I'm dumb, but I can't really explain things well..

Edit: ahh, the transphobes come running out of the woodwork. Should have figured.

[–]frymaster [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Not a feminist, but "microagressions".

The basic idea is that just because women can vote and own property doesn't mean things are solved. Just because any specific instance of a small discrepancy isn't a big deal doesn't mean they don't add up. For example, when walking down the street women have to get out of the way of oncoming pedestrians more often than men do. Not a big deal, really. But when it happens all day every day? It begins to add up.

[–]Pocketfulomumbles [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Stroke and ADD awareness. The symptoms women get from these things are different from the ones men have, but the male symptoms are generally in textbooks. It's getting better, but a lot of women were misdiagnosed or not diagnosed at all

[–]Your_giddy_aunt 19ポイント20ポイント  (12子コメント)

Widespread cultural sexism. Our deepest, most ingrained biases are the harest ones to see

[–]skullturf 15ポイント16ポイント  (1子コメント)

Your comment would be more helpful if it pointed out some specifics.

[–]Ascathar 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

The fact the women in a vast majority of divorces get custody because they are always seen as 'better fit to take care of a kid' is one negative for males

The fact that women still have a hard time getting CEO-jobs unless those jobs have a big risk of collapsing on themselves. (Glass cliff --> negative for women)

Those things are often not actively pursued (don't know the spelling) but kind of just happen. Which is 'deep and super ingrained'

[–]JohnnyTheWalrus 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Like what, for example? I don't know what you mean if you don't give an example.

[–]caesiums 25ポイント26ポイント  (39子コメント)

A lot of it sounds very tumblr, such as representation and white privilege. But when you explain it in a mature way it makes a lot of sense.

[–]Glory2Hypnotoad 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's weird, as long as you strip it of any social justice buzzwords, most people will accept the idea of privilege. Think about how often the opening lines of The Great Gatsby show up in any thread about quotes, and it's exactly what the idea of privilege is: a call for self-examination before judging others.

[–]BooleanParity 0ポイント1ポイント  (31子コメント)

They don't make sense because they are only used as an argumentative shield. Saying that someone's opinion matters less because they have "white male privilege" is idiotic.

Also a white man that is poor is at a way less privileged situation than a really wealthy woman of color. Blanket judgement about any kind of privilege are usually just sexist and racist.

[–]dude_icus 33ポイント34ポイント  (25子コメント)

If someone says to you, "Your opinion doesn't matter because you have white male privilege," then they are using fallacious logic.

However, privilege is a thing, and you are correct in saying it's not just about race and sex. You can be disadvantaged or privileged in a whole variety of ways. In order for a person to be 100% completely privileged (assuming this person lives in the United States), they would have to be white, male, cis-gendered, Protestant, rich, well-educated, heterosexual, able-bodied, handsome, tall, fit, etc. Obviously, this is a very small subset of the population.

Furthermore, just because someone is privileged doesn't mean that everything is always a-okay for them. Everyone goes through hardships. However, for privileged classes, they will be significantly less likely to face hardship in regards to their status as whatever group.

[–]PocketofPeas 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

My understanding of the correct use of privilege is that it would be a self-reflection thing. Ie: Examine my life, compare with this other person's life, realize we are coming from different places and have a different context for these issues.

The idea being no person can really get inside some one else's head, so stay humble. Which, on the flip side, means you don't actually know what privilege someone else has. You can only "check" your own.

[–]essenoh2you 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not that a white, straight, etc male's opinion doesn't matter or is worth less. It's that you should recognize as someone of that demographic that other people have different life experiences from you based on their skin color, gender, sexuality, etc.

[–]TheNamelessBard [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Personally, I feel as though the way doctors sometimes treat women is quite unreasonable and, often, overlooked. I have suffered from progressively more painful menstrual cramps for years. I started to have other physical symptoms that suggested there was something wrong with me, so I went to a doctor. Upon doing such, I was told I could not be in as much pain as I said I was. Then that it sounded as though I had PCOS, but that he would not do the necessary test (an ultrasound) to confirm that diagnosis without putting me on birth control first to see if the problem would fix itself (it did not and now I can't afford to go to a doctor).

Women deserve to be treated as though their feelings about their health are reasonable. I have heard this kind of story from many people I know who were eventually diagnosed with things like PCOS and endometriosis after years of fighting with doctors to actually do something.

[–]KingAdeto 14ポイント15ポイント  (31子コメント)

Alot of girls complain about getting stared at. You may think "oh well they can deal with it." Yeah try dealing with it if you get 20 guys a day staring at your tits or face. It must be super frustrating.

[–]Riggybee 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

I gotta tell you, being told I have a hot ass and some good tits when I was 12 was super fucking uncomfortable. Amongst other things I was told, like "I'd totally fuck you if you had a better face". Wtf, dude. I was 12.

[–]AOEUD 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

...we're not allowed to look at faces now?

[–]Timferius 37ポイント38ポイント  (0子コメント)

Looking and staring are two completely different ballgames there.

[–]KazPart2 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

ELI5: Tumblrism?

[–]madamz 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Basically the idea that some people take perceived and possibly non-existent race/gender issues and turn them into overblown widespread apocalypse-level problems. The perception is that this sort of thing gained popularity among tumblr users before spreading out into mainstream social media, and then into real life subsequently, hence "tumblrism."

[–]partofbreakfast 5ポイント6ポイント  (19子コメント)

The 'pink tax', which actually isn't about taxes on tampons.

It's the fact that products used by both men and women (pens and razors are the primary examples used) are often made with 'for men' and 'for women' versions, and the women's version costs more despite being functionally identical to the men's version.

Some examples:

http://i.imgur.com/8Ouoiud.jpg http://i.imgur.com/CPCsvsw.jpg http://i.imgur.com/7L9Lfv3.jpg http://i.imgur.com/bEEH1Aq.jpg http://i.imgur.com/8dfRUJQ.jpg

[–]techiemikey [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I hope I don't get downvoted for this, but I am wondering if the fact that men are not as willing to use "women's products" as women are to use "Men's products" is partly the cause of this due to economies of scale? Like, maybe the pink scooter actually costs more to make because they make 10 times more of the red ones and the color changes require time to shut down the line to change colors and other bits? Or perhaps it started that way, but when consumers showed they would buy women's products at a higher price, people just did it? Or less people make women's products, so there is less competition on these products?

I admit that it happens, and I agree it sucks, I'm just curious on the "how did we get to this point?".

[–]just_limbs 3ポイント4ポイント  (48子コメント)

Gender Equality

[–]romanticheart 4ポイント5ポイント  (44子コメント)

Sometimes I feel like the the only woman who has never felt unequal due to my vagina.

[–]Isord 53ポイント54ポイント  (27子コメント)

It's just the simple fact that individual experiences don't trump, invalidate, or prove statistical realities. Minorities and women are, statistically, treated unequally. Doesn't mean they can't be successful or that all minorities and women are treated unequally.

[–]abqkat 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nah, I am there with you, too. Part of it, for me, IME, as I see it (and the dozens of other qualifiers that are needed, apparently) is that feminists think that gender is a social construct. So they seem to think that different = unequal. Which I do not. I think that men and women inherently differ and that those differences mean that we will never be the same as each other, which feminists seem to be largely against.

I'm equal to my husband, but we're not the same. We gender our chores pretty traditionally, etc. It was the same growing up: I have 4 sisters and 3 brothers and, in a family that big, you have to divide chores somehow, and gender is as good an approach as any. This, to me, is not an issue like it is for many feminists, so my axiom differs from feminists' view in that, and many, ways