https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIFIziJWo-Q Khatia Buniatishvili - Live at iTunes Festival 30/09/2014

Robert Bohrer Her Claire de Lune is perfect.

D Sargent +Robert Bohrer Really? I think she's an incredible pianist, but I thought this rendition is so slow it loses the melody a bit.

Elías Baez Tabe It's absolutely perfect

D Sargent Well, she's a great performer. I just think there is a trend among classical musicians to go overboard with rubato/super slow tempos. A matter of taste, I guess.

Elías Baez Tabe +Evading Sardine Or variety, and a lot of people hates me for saying this, but having every single performer play all pieces the same, always entirely faithful to the score is just boring. I think every performer should take the risk of trying to match their own voices with the voice of the composer; some may fail, some may succeed, but having everyone paying eternal and absolute faithfulness to a score written a couple of hundred years ago is another way of perpetuating its burial instead of giving it a second, third, or thousandth life, whoch to me is way more interesting, specially since we can listen to them all. But yes, it's all a matter of taste. Personally I believe that this being a little bit slower builds a more dreamlike atmosphere, which according to the poem and the theme of the piece seems not so unfit.

D Sargent I understand. But for me slowing a piece down to an extremely slow speed to attempt to imbue the performance with poignancy rarely works. Great composers choose tempos, just as they choose harmony, rhythm and melody. It's never arbitrary. And yes, once in a while it may be that a performer finds a new tempo that enhances the piece, but I don't think that is usually the case. I think in almost all cases, great composers choose the right tempos, and too many performers choose the wrong tempos. I also think it is a sign of disrespect, and yes, perhaps composers are not infallible, but I think you are doing an injustice to the music by drastically changing it. I think she does that with this performance. She's a great pianist, and too many performers slow down pieces beyond recognition, so I'm not singling her out, but it just doesn't work for me.

Elías Baez Tabe +Evading Sardine I don't think she changed the piece at all, to me it's quite evident she's playing Claire de Lune. Besides, I never mentioned rithm, harmony or melody, as she didn't change any of those. She played in perfect 9/8 time signature, she played the exact melodies and the exact harmonies in the exact Bb minor key signature with the exact accidentals Debussy wrote, she's just feeling it a little bit slower at times, I wouldn't consider intuitive augmentation (given that she doesn't play it slower the whole time) a way of disrespect, a wrong call or a drastic change in the piece. Maybe I find that excessive scrutiny prevents us from enjoying music's possible flexibility. Besides, even though great composers write, as you said, the right specifics, great composers also know that performers will bring new insights into the music, many times confessing joyfully that given performer overcame what they had imagined. But you don't have to like it or anything, it's really just a matter of taste and how flexible we are. There is room for both Karajans and Stokowskys in the world and they are both great for each kind of personality. Greetings.

D Sargent You misunderstood. I was not saying she changed melody, harmony or rhythm. I was saying that the tempo that the composer chooses is not arbitrary, and changing the tempo that a composer chooses is similar in my mind to changing rhythm, harmony or melody. It's no longer the piece the composer wrote. If you want to write a new piece, such as a variation, OK. But if you want to do justice to a piece, you should play it at the right tempo. This is not the right tempo, IMO I've heard it faster, and I believe that is what is marked (I've never seen the score, however), and what Debussy intended. I could be wrong. And I'm not sure I agree that composers know that performers will take this much liberty. But I'm no expert, and maybe Debussy would have been fine with this performance .My hunch is no.

Elías Baez Tabe +Evading Sardine Your'e supposed to write a variation where the only difference is spontaneous augmentation? And again, I don't know who you listened, but this is not a slower tempo in the whole, she just sustains it in certain bits, and at least to me this is not enough reason to write a variation, because feeling the piece yourself is just what performers do, at least good performers, unlike those robots who play, like I said, the exact same thing over and over and over again. Take it or leave it, there are enough Lang Langs in the world if you're into that robotic philosophy on "just" performance. And I didn't say composers know performers will take "liberties", I'm saying you can't write down every single aspect of performance in paper because there's no possible language to do that; you just can't imply everything that happens when performing with FFF or PPP or > or < and even if you write down in words exactly what you want, you know there's still a universe of possibilities. Vladimir Horowitz himself played his Carmen Variations differently every single time under the parameters of his score, as he did with a lot of other pieces which were not his. What I ment is that composers know all this. And last but not least: No; spontaneous augmentation while performing could be improvisation at best, but never the same as changing a melody or harmony, because that would be variation, and I'm sure you do recognize this is not a Claire de Lune variation, as you would recognize just the opposite if melody and harmony were any different. But let's imagine it was a variation ... Just calling it a variation makes it right? Following your logic, wouldn't it be just as disrespectful, if not much more to compose a variation? I think you should relax and take all this a little less seriously. Composers are human beings like everyone else, and just as their talent is to create, the talent of the perfomer is to bring it to life, which involves going, not against but beyond what's written down. It's ok if you like faster performances, but I don't think you have a solid citeria on performance.

D Sargent I'm not really trying to debate you. You are not understanding my point at all. But fine, if you enjoy the performance, I am glad. Cheers.

Elías Baez Tabe +Evading Sardine Actually you tried and failed, but I appreciate your gladness. Cheers.

D Sargent +Elías Baez Tabe Fuck you. I didn't fail. You just disagree. This is not a competition. I'm expressing my views. Who died and made you the fucking arbiter of taste?

D Sargent +Elías Baez Tabe Fucking pompous windbag.

Elías Baez Tabe +Evading Sardine Go lick your wounds elsewhere, bitch.

D Sargent Hahaha. It's cute you think your pomposity had any effect on me. Good luck, little boy.

Elías Baez Tabe I think it had, given that you insulted me for pointing out you couldn't debate me with better arguments than "you just don't get my point" like a fucking 15 year old wet imbecile. I told you it was ok if you didn't enjoy this and prefer faster versions ; How am I an arbiter of taste, only for having a better structured premise to speak my mind? Your taste is whatever you make out of it, but all your insight on composers and performers is below your very abilities of expression, so your last resource was to call me pompous and tell me to go fuck myself. You don't show much of a brain, not even if you have one.

D Sargent I think you are a moron if you think an argument about taste can be won.

Elías Baez Tabe +Evading Sardine It was never an argument about taste, you fucking idiot!

D Sargent Then what was it? An opportunity for you to swing your millimeter-long dick and pontificate on your theories of music, informed as they are by a substandard education? In any event, have a nice night, have a nice life, and kindly insert your small penis in your mouth/ass. :D

Elías Baez Tabe +Evading Sardine You've been trying to make this an issue of taste because it's the only way you can still stay on a subjective standpoint instead of responding to the real topic of discussion, for all you have left is penis size, oral and anal penetration talk, while accusing me of having a substandard education. Seriously, if you can't see the paradox there you should put a fucking bullet through your already empty brain. Also, I highly recommend not to expose you own traumas here, given that you don't know me, nor you have seen my penis, but yet you find it offensive to call another man lacking in sex as you describe punishment by homosexual activity, which could lead to you being either raped or raised in a homophobic atmosphere while being a closet homosexual yourself; Or maybe you're just a moronic, barking cliche catalogue, angry when made subject of humilliation and resourseless to reply succesfully. Good luck anyhow.

D Sargent Query whether inserting your own penis into your mouth or anus is homosexual.

EASYTIGER10 Well that interesting discussion on tempos and interpretation went a bit pear shaped...

Elías Baez Tabe +Evading Sardine That doesn't even make sense, retarded fuck.

Elías Baez Tabe +EASYTIGER10 Tell that to Mr. imbecile penis size obsessed homo here.

D Sargent Hahahhaa. Like a dog chasing his own tail. Or penis maybe.

Elías Baez Tabe +Evading Sardine Hahahahaha you really have an obsession with my penis don't you ?

D Sargent Yes, because I am into miniatures!! Hahahaah

Elías Baez Tabe +Evading Sardine I bet you wet yourself just thinking about a taste of me.

D Sargent Nope. I'm straight. Have a good life. Let go. Take a deep breath. Peace.

Elías Baez Tabe +Evading Sardine Well, for someone who wasn't trying to debate me you replied a lot of stupid shit. Have a good life yourself, penis obsessed straight guy. Peace

D Sargent Thanks bud. And good luck with your quest to find a penis mightier.

Elías Baez Tabe +Evading Sardine You mean a mightier penis, so I wish you enough luck to at least learn how to use adjectives; However, guessing your only reading may consist in homo porn literature it might be quite impossible, unless of course writing like a retarded 10-year old is also a matter of taste... If so I sincerely apologize, I don't want to be considered an arbiter of taste. Give up this non debating me quest already and take a deep breath yourself. Peace... Again.

D Sargent Answer me, Trebek, do you or do you not have a penis mightier. Because I am not ashamed to say I have spent a pretty penny trying to get me one. Google it. And stop hating on homosexuals and mentally challenged. I am neither, but it annoys me when people call them names.

Elías Baez Tabe +Evading Sardine You should've googled it yourself before telling me to. Here's the first thing to pop up: "Term has its roots in an aparent case of dyslexia, when Sean Connery misread the category "The Pen is Mightier" on a celebrity charity edition of Jeopardy". So yes, you are both, because you use a term which is incorrect, even if it's used to describe something which apparently you're quite familiar with (while I wasn't before you brought it up), confirming not only all of the above, but that you own or long for such device due to your small penis. And I'm not hating either homosexuals nor mentally challenged people, because not all of them are assholes like yourself. Now, seriously, just shut up before you sink yourself even deeper.

D Sargent That was the whole point of the skit: he says "Penis mightier" instead of "Pen Is Mightier". Guess what? You are way too stupid to talk to. Bye.

Elías Baez Tabe +Evading Sardine Yes !!! You fucking idiot !!! The term exist because someone made a mistake !!! Therefore it is wrong !!! You are literally the most intelectually limited piece of crap I've encountered ... And we are in youtube. Now go hide in the shitty hole you came from. Bye, let's see if you can really let it go this time (the third, by the way. But who's counting ?)

D Sargent So if I am reading you correctly, you do not have a job or girlfriend. Sorry, buddy. Hang in there.

Elías Baez TabeNo bud, I'm sure I'm not the first nor last person to expose you as a closet retarded homo with penis size fixations, complexes, and apparently devices as well; and I'm also sure most of us did better than you both lovewise and occupationalwise. I'll just say that if you had a girlfriend or boyfriend my guess is you wouldn't be searching for a so called penis mightier; Would you? I'd recommend what some may think of as brain mightiers and I call books, if only you had a brain to actually broaden. Anyway, this is getting us nowhere, so keep replying al the stupid shit you want, I'm not even reading you anymore. Have a nice rest of such miserable existence.

D Sargent This is so awesome. You are actually making me laugh out loud. Especially when you use the word "occupationalwise" in the same breath in which you claim I haven't done well in my chosen profession. You are (unintentionally, but so what) hilarious. And yes, I am literally looking for a penis mightier, not quoting a line from a sketch. So do you have a penis mightier or not!????? I need one so bad!!!!!!!