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Chelsea Manning to be sent to solitary confinement for suicide try (reuters.com)
NinjaDiscoJesus が 12時間前 投稿
[–]username_b0z 2218ポイント2219ポイント2220ポイント 11時間前 (478子コメント)
Ah yes, this should help the feelings of isolation and loneliness.
[–]Elidor 1031ポイント1032ポイント1033ポイント 9時間前 (36子コメント)
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
[–]MajorMajorObvious 208ポイント209ポイント210ポイント 7時間前 (29子コメント)
Are you feeling it now, Mr. Krabs?
[–]InFearn0 61ポイント62ポイント63ポイント 7時間前 (25子コメント)
How many lights do you see?
[–]ladyarathorn 64ポイント65ポイント66ポイント 5時間前 (15子コメント)
there are... four lights..!
[–]MBuddah 17ポイント18ポイント19ポイント 4時間前 (12子コメント)
Nobody ever gets the reference when I say it
[–]PandaBearMcSausage 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 4時間前 (2子コメント)
Are you older, bald and extremely sexy?
[–]MBuddah 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 3時間前 (1子コメント)
Yes (?), yes, and yes.
Do you want strong, athletic, intelligent, educated, well spoken sons who are over 6 ft tall and respect their mother? Cause I'm fertile. And I'm ready.
[–]frozendancicle 15ポイント16ポイント17ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
Shut up horny bald Riker, they meant are you Picard
[–]Funklestein 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
Shaka. When the walls fell…
[–]justavriend [スコア非表示] 44分前 (0子コメント)
I don't even watch Star Trek and I know this reference.
[–]PorkRindSalad 17ポイント18ポイント19ポイント 5時間前 (3子コメント)
Eyes in the dark... one moon circles.
[–]mooky1977 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 3時間前 (1子コメント)
Shakka, when the walls fell!
[–]battletactics 16ポイント17ポイント18ポイント 5時間前 (1子コメント)
I recently learned this was not a tongue in cheek statement but a message to Japanese troops from their leasers stating that, until their morale improved they would continue to get beaten by the enemy.
[–]Jackbeingbad 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 5時間前 (0子コメント)
That's often the army way.
But not due to ignorance, or stupidity.
Often the most callous examples of "going by the book" are with people that are seen as problems.
The "banned book" thing disturbs me.
[–]HitShane 56ポイント57ポイント58ポイント 5時間前 (9子コメント)
Attempting suicide while in an institution will always reward you with a loss of clothing linen and personal property including eating utensils. You basically get a padded velcro vest and a plain mattress. You are fed finger foods.
[–]Painterly_Witch 17ポイント18ポイント19ポイント 2時間前 (3子コメント)
I had a friend with this kind of confinement while on suicide watch at a psychiatric ward. He still tried to slit his wrists on a loose nail slightly jutting out of the wall. All that got him was tetanus shots.
[–]NoHahForACrudite 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 1時間前 (2子コメント)
I've thought about this while laying in bed, during those macabre mental musings that keep a person awake. What if I'm indefinitely imprisoned, or stuck somewhere where I can't move, but will not die immediately. How would I end my suffering? I've always wondered if biting my tongue hard enough and repeatedly enough would induce sepsis and kill me. That's the only thing I can think of if my hands and feet are bound. Maybe repeatedly spit until I dehydrate myself. Now I know why spies were issued cyanide pills.
[–]SpacemanCraig2 [スコア非表示] 58分前 (1子コメント)
Bite your tongue and inhale the blood. Drown.
[–]Socialism_Is_Evil 12ポイント13ポイント14ポイント 3時間前 (2子コメント)
Also the Army doesn't want to deal with the shit storm that would follow if Manning successfully committed suicide.
[–]mclemons67 [スコア非表示] 40分前 (0子コメント)
What shitstorm? There would be Twitter hashtags for a week and then the world would forget Manning ever existed.
[–]DetestPeople 316ポイント317ポイント318ポイント 8時間前 (231子コメント)
Something people need to understand: as an organization, the military does not give a single fuck about you or your life. You are nothing more than a trainable unit that can be programmed to do whatever the fuck they want. The minute you stop being useful to them, you will be discarded.
Its not the grown up boy scouts. Its a machine whose purpose is to impose the political will of the US government on foreign nations, nothing more.
[–]dollarsandcents101 74ポイント75ポイント76ポイント 6時間前 (55子コメント)
Also - Chelsea Manning is still a member of the military.
[–]ganooosh 77ポイント78ポイント79ポイント 6時間前 (54子コメント)
Yeah, something about them being in the military should make american's forget the values they have and pretend it's ok to treat people in a subhuman way.
They should have already served an adequate prison sentence for what they did and should be moving on with their live. Instead they want to commit suicide because they feel it's their only option.
[–]HitShane 65ポイント66ポイント67ポイント 5時間前 (27子コメント)
A civilian in jail is treated the same way even before they're prosecuted for a crime. If you are on suicide watch you get nothing but a velcro padded vest and a plain mattress. You get no clothing no linen no personal property and no eating utensils. You also are lucky to get a shower once a week. They wake you up every hour or two to make sure you didn't find some other way to kill yourself. You also get your lights left on 24 hours a day. Just imagine this happening to you and you're not even convicted of a crime yet you're just being charged. Innocent till proven guilty my ass. All institutions do this for a suicide attempt. Actually all someone has to do is call the facility you're in and say you are suicidal and will do this to you.
[–]Rather_Unfortunate 24ポイント25ポイント26ポイント 4時間前 (24子コメント)
What the fuck.
One day, such treatment is going to occupy a page, or at least a paragraph of a history book, and people will shake their heads at the barbarity of it.
[–]recycled_ideas 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント 3時間前 (1子コメント)
As a prisoner, convicted or not, you are in the care of the institution. They are responsible for you legally. Add in protecting staff from accusations of helping people along and you get this.
I have a lot of sympathy for Manning. I think she didn't have the ability to filter what she released and that time served is more than sufficient punishment, but can you imagine the accusations and conspiracy theories if she successfully committed suicide?
[–]ReallyBigDeal 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント 3時間前 (17子コメント)
What the fuck else are you supposed to do? Someone commits suicide or attempts it. What should we do? Let them die?
The above commenter makes it sound like we torture people but it's not. We stabilize individuals, evaluate their mental status, get them treatment and if it looks like they aren't going to harm themselves or others we release them. Most psych holds are for 72 hours and only longer if the person persist to be a threat to themselves or others. Yes county facilities where the funding is crap can be a bit rough but the goal is still the same.
[–]Rather_Unfortunate 13ポイント14ポイント15ポイント 3時間前* (7子コメント)
Talk to them! Let them speak to someone who's on their side! Give them full access to proper therapy and the like! Check on them, certainly, but don't fuck up their sleeping patterns to do it. Fuck, give them a shoulder to sob on if need be, and let them see family/friends face to face (not behind glass over the phone or similar bullshit; at a table, properly, as it should be for everyone)!
Creating a personal hell for them like that is counterproductive and unlikely to prompt improvement.
A prisoner is and must be a human first and foremost, be they Chelsea Manning or bloody Goebbels. Physically preventing their death for its own sake just isn't good enough for a society priding itself on its morality.
[–]Avatar_exADV [スコア非表示] 40分前 (0子コメント)
The problem there is that if you tell prisoners "if you do Thing X, suddenly we will treat you really nicely," you get a lot of Thing X. If you tell your prisoners that some talks about suicide get them put into the Nice Room where a social worker will come in and listen to them complain, you're going to discover a whole lot of "suicidal" prisoners. And that makes it even worse for the few guys who are actually suicidal, because now they're concealed in a stream of liars, and the people who are assigned to sort them out will get jaded -really goddamned fast- by the endless parade of bullshit in front of them.
This is one reason that medical care in prisons isn't very good - because the guards are subjected to a constant stream of complaints by the prisoners, it can be tough to distinguish someone who's actually suffering from a health problem from someone either lying to get out of their cell, or to just screw with the guards.
The military is even worse in this respect, because they -aren't- interested in reform, and they need their prisons to be unpleasant enough that it's preferable to -charge at people who are shooting at you-. Then THEY have to have something even more unpleasant after that...
[–]Chaz2810 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 3時間前 (4子コメント)
Yes they absolutely should let them die, it's their lives and they should do what they want with it, it should be their right imo. I'm all for urging someone to get the help they need but I think they need to take those steps themselves at the end of the day, plus I've heard countless times that people come out of psych wards feeling worse than they did when they went in, it's ridiculous.
[–]TheRealPainsaw 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
The difference is mental health. I dont know your story, nor do i care (in the politest possible strangers-on-the-internet way) but that you can say this tells me you dont understand the issues with the (american) justice system at present.
Statistics show that a way higher percentage of mentally or emotionally inept people end up incarcerated during their lives. Jails and prisons are already under scrutiny for gross violations of human rights. I dont think its a far jump to say incarcerated people with mental disorders are treated shittier than even your common prisoner.
[–]Eric_The_Blue 13ポイント14ポイント15ポイント 5時間前 (16子コメント)
He released nearly 750,000 classified and unclassified documents and got sentenced to thirty-five years in prison with the possibility of parole after eight, she's served three, so she hasn't served enough time
[–]DarkTussin 24ポイント25ポイント26ポイント 5時間前 (9子コメント)
Interesting gender swap halfway through.
[–]Eric_The_Blue 32ポイント33ポイント34ポイント 5時間前 (5子コメント)
Well she kind of had a gender swap halfway through lol I never know what pronouns to use about transgender people, because when he released the documents his name was Bradley Manning, and then she came out and said she wanted to be called Chelsea right after her sentencing. So technically she didn't release the documents but he did. Just like technically Caitlyn Jenner didn't win the Olympics but Bruce did. I don't know I'm not against transgenders by any means, but I just don't know what pronouns to use lol
[–]I_Shot_First64 8ポイント9ポイント10ポイント 4時間前 (3子コメント)
Should probably just use their preferred ones really avoids confusion amongst other things
[–]noisymime 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
That creates confusion too. Sticking to the preferred gender for past actions leads to sentences like "She won the men's Gold at the Olympics" for Caitlyn Jenner. Not sure there's a properly good answer.
[–]JustAGuyCMV 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 3時間前 (1子コメント)
Well, then he (bradley) released the documents and she (Chelsea) is serving the sentence.
Seems fine to me.
[–]SethLJM 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 4時間前 (0子コメント)
So what about Hildawg mate?
[–]ganooosh 25ポイント26ポイント27ポイント 5時間前 (3子コメント)
In a normal court of law they would not have been convicted and they'd be sitting on a settlement for the torture they endured.
If you're american and you don't take issue with people being tortured and denied their basic human rights, you really have some soul searching to do.
[–]G_Maharis 17ポイント18ポイント19ポイント 4時間前 (0子コメント)
In a normal court of law they would not have been convicted
Hold up. Let's place this person in a normal court of law with an offense of equivalent nature and scope.
Civilian A downloaded 750,000 internal documents holding proprietary and otherwise sensitive information. This was a very large organization. This civilian had special access which was granted to him in order to do his job. This civilian signed multiple NDA's, went through many months of training on how to handle this access and type of media, undertook an extremely thorough background check, and knew full well the consequences of mishandling the information. Those consequences were not only towards himself, but the organization as a whole and the people who work for it. It would also give a HUUUGGEE upper hand to their competitor(s) for years to come if had anything that he had special access to.
He noticed a pattern of misconduct that he could not tolerate on moral grounds. He reported it to his superiors, but it went nowhere. This is because all or most of the incidents had already been investigated by the right people in order to determine if changes to protocol were needed or if the laws of any kind were broken.* It may not have been a perfect system, but he did all that he could do for a person in his position.
He then decided to leak as much information as possible to and outside party who have no interest in supporting that organization, but simply want to be the source of secure information for their own purposes. Those purposes are not entirely clear, but given that party's history they will likely divulge everything to the general public.
He took steps to shield and/or obscure his identity in order to avoid punishment and maintain his position. He knew exactly what he was doing and did this over a considerable amount of time. This was not done under the influence of any substance, under threat for his life or loved ones(that we know of), and did not act on impulse. He was seen on camera stealing the data and writing it to a removable piece of media to transport it from a secure location to his own personal access. He was later caught by an undercover investigator trying to see if he would leak more of this information. That is how he was caught.
Civilian A was then charged with a crime and given a fair and speedy trial. His motives were apparent, evidence stacked against him, and the damage already done. The victim in this case was the large organization he worked for and the people who rely on people like Civilian A to not screw them over.
I don't know how to evaluate the length of sentencing, but I can say without a doubt that this was a criminal act and the evidence is admissible in a normal court of law. He would be charged for his crimes and imprisoned in pretty much any developed country.
TL,DR: If Chelsea Manning was tried in a "normal court of law," as opposed to the Court Martial administered under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, she would have gone to prison, anyway.
*Yes, I'm talking about the helicopter video.
[–]binarybandit 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 3時間前* (0子コメント)
I don't think you understand all the evidence against him. In a normal court of law, he would be treated like the Rosenbergs. This would be a federal indictment and the federal government would show no mercy.
[–]TipperOfTheFedora 144ポイント145ポイント146ポイント 8時間前 (36子コメント)
I, too, shop at Hot Topic
[–]Havana_aan_de_Waal 12ポイント13ポイント14ポイント 6時間前 (32子コメント)
What does that mean?
[–]travia21 13ポイント14ポイント15ポイント 6時間前 (23子コメント)
That /u/DetestPeople is being pretentious. He/she almost certainly hasn't served in the military. His/her "...and nothing more." is the kind of hyperbole you should expect of a self-righteous tween that shops at Hot Topic to signal how counter-culture they are.
[–]ET2_Grizler 118ポイント119ポイント120ポイント 5時間前 (3子コメント)
As someone who has served in the military, you have no idea what you are talking about. He is describing it as it is, accurately. Individuals in the military value eachother. But as a whole it is just a machine and you are a part.
[–]DetestPeople 51ポイント52ポイント53ポイント 5時間前 (12子コメント)
I went to basic training at RTC Great Lakes, IL. I went to A school at Lackland AFB, TX. I was stationed at Bangor Naval Sub Base north of Silverdale, WA. I was assigned to the Marine Corps Security Force Company under the Strategic Weapons Pacific Command. I was a Master at Arms 3rd class. If you want to choose to believe that I just made all of that up, then so be it.
[–]Dan_Q_Memes 8ポイント9ポイント10ポイント 5時間前 (0子コメント)
Name understandably checks out.
[–]binarybandit 13ポイント14ポイント15ポイント 4時間前* (6子コメント)
Master At Arms, 3rd class is an E-4 cop, so not an NCO. Since you were stationed in a Naval Sub Base, that means you were basically a security guard, the dude at the gate, or the dude who pulls people over for going 2 miles over the speed limit.
I was a U.S Army Sergeant, 13B, with one combat deployment. I imagine your experience and mine are vastly different, since I have no idea what you are talking about. The military does have its up and downs, but you seem like a very disgruntled veteran.
[–]nsdqwannabe 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 3時間前 (1子コメント)
Something something POG, something something butthurt. He's the type of guy that will have his back window covered in VETERAN stickers in about 10 years I bet.
[–]lutefisk4life 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 6時間前 (1子コメント)
it's a store where angsty teenagers shop when they go to the mall.
[–]Kiyasu 15ポイント16ポイント17ポイント 6時間前 (3子コメント)
Yeah? You do realize how many people are assisted by the military in our county?
Are you aware of how much of our country was built by the Army Corp of Engineers?
It's an entity that employees millions and takes a huge chunk of our cash. We're more than capable of expecting more from it. It's also a path out of poverty for many. You're ignoring the reality of what the military is for an idea of what it is. But don't worry, when it's a state of emergency where you live, the Army will be there, and not to shoot foreigners.
Not to mention it's still a part of our government, and should be held to a higher standard. It's a major employer and educator, it's a massive source of research and development, it provides infrastructure and support for places that need it.
It protects our country from everything, not just bad guys in other countries.
[–]NotJohnStamos 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 2時間前 (2子コメント)
So many people think that Military = murder in war. They forget the Army Engineers and hell I know many military that have never heard of the Seabees. Not just repairing blown up shit, I have had fellow soldiers building schools and homes in poor countries, taking care of bridges and roads in our own country. People would balk if they saw just how many units are in Engineering, let alone sub divisions and the civilians attached to them.
[–]2d15d7c4 35ポイント36ポイント37ポイント 8時間前 (42子コメント)
Ummmmm you don't sound experienced in this topic at all
[–]relaxlmao 21ポイント22ポイント23ポイント 5時間前 (4子コメント)
The rising statistics of homeless veterans and veterans who commit suicide without sufficient medical care say hi.
[–]fco83 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 4時間前 (1子コメント)
Not to say that we dont need to address mental health in this country, we do..
But when adjusted for age\gender the 'veteran suicide' thing is extremely exaggerated. It just happens that the components that the military fills itself with are those same demographics at a higher risk of suicide.
[–]TheFishSeattle 31ポイント32ポイント33ポイント 7時間前 (22子コメント)
Yea, my disability pension disagrees as well.
[–]Anonymonynonymous 29ポイント30ポイント31ポイント 6時間前 (0子コメント)
Unless I'm mistaken, the disability pension was not the military's initiative, so it's not a relevant argument.
[–]ltburch 502ポイント503ポイント504ポイント 10時間前 (238子コメント)
They threatened indefinite, which to me sounds like hell on earth, a simply inhumane punishment. While solitary seems like an insane reaction to a suicide attempt at least it is only 7-14 days. Manning's incarceration has been filled with the most over the top reactions imaginable so I am sort of glad to see a degree on reason here.
[–]vanishplusxzone 162ポイント163ポイント164ポイント 10時間前 (185子コメント)
Honestly it's sort of amazing she hasn't had a "tragic accident" yet with the sheer amount of hatred the case generates.
[–]lilsecretnobodynos 37ポイント38ポイント39ポイント 10時間前 (184子コメント)
Which is why they keep her from the general population. I've never met a person in the military that's had even a neutral opinion about Manning. Everyone hates her.
[–]sealfoss 219ポイント220ポイント221ポイント 8時間前 (84子コメント)
You're so full of shit. I'm ex army. Everybody doesn't hate her. I'm actually glad that the collateral murder video got out. It provided the general public with an unadulterated view into what the wars that politicians sent us to go fight actually are. We do, however, acknowledge that she was under UCMJ whens he did what she did, so the consequences aren't exactly a surprise.
[–]tedsmitts 37ポイント38ポイント39ポイント 8時間前 (2子コメント)
It reminds me of the photographer who took a picture of a burnt out humvee with an equally burnt up corpse and the line "I take pictures like this so people will know what war is like" or something.
[–]Epsom_Pepper 41ポイント42ポイント43ポイント 6時間前 (1子コメント)
That was an Iraqi soldier, in the truck he attempted to retreat in during the Gulf War. https://www.google.com/amp/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/375762/?client=ms-android-att-us
[–]tedsmitts 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント 6時間前 (0子コメント)
Thank you.
[–]recycled_ideas 13ポイント14ポイント15ポイント 3時間前 (6子コメント)
I'm not military, but that video really pisses me off. Not that it was released, but how. The audience is given information and context the poor bastards flying could never possibly have known in order to manipulate the audience reaction. I can't imagine it doesn't bug folks who have actually had to make those decisions.
Manning wasn't responsible for that though.
[–]sealfoss 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 3時間前 (5子コメント)
I didn't really take it like that. I thought it was pretty obvious that all of the US forces involved weren't trying to kill civilians. The implication was that was the sort of thing that happens in modern warfare, and that it was one of the tragic results of unjust war.
[–]recycled_ideas 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 1時間前 (4子コメント)
That video was deliberately produced to make the Military look like murderers. That's why you are told who they were and shown pictures of their families and funerals before the footage. You're supposed to see a camera held by journalists, and they do everything they can to subtlely make sure you do. You and I and anyone else with sense know that the footage and context mean the pilots did the best they could, but that's not the message the video tries to send.
[–]ioliangrace 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
You and I and anyone else with sense know that the footage and context mean the pilots did the best they could
I'm finding there are very few people with sense in this thread, in that case.
[–]cannedairspray 14ポイント15ポイント16ポイント 3時間前 (9子コメント)
Further down the thread you said you got out as an E-4 which is already like...okay, take whatever you say with a grain of salt. For people reading this, you get that grade in two years if you don't fuck up- it comes automatically. E-4s aren't really known for their acumen when it comes to the military; it's the last rank where your only responsibilities are to just follow orders.
Beyond that, you said you enlisted after 9/11. So let's say you were in 4 years. You got out around 2006ish. Manning did her thing in 2010. So when that happened, you were already four years out of being a very small fish in the military in the first place. How many military people did you still talk to? 10? 15? I think that'd actually be a lot, considering.
So how, exactly, are you qualified to say who does and who doesn't hate her?
[–]SabadoGigantes 12ポイント13ポイント14ポイント 1時間前 (1子コメント)
Hey man, junior enlisted from 2006 are the best gauges of what the military in 2016 thinks about what someone did in 2010, everyone knows that.
[–]damnjoker [スコア非表示] 48分前 (0子コメント)
It's just common sense.
[–]legionallofus 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 2時間前 (0子コメント)
Yes! Exactly. This guy doesn't exactly have his fingers on the pulse of the military.
[–]spaceman_spiffy 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
Ok, that was like one thing of the thousands of others he leaked.
[–]325342f23 11ポイント12ポイント13ポイント 5時間前 (3子コメント)
The person you're replying to said
I've never met a person in the military that's had even a neutral opinion about Manning.
Key words are "I've never met..." But whatever. I guess that part doesn't matter to you. Everyone is just full of shit.
[–]FULLM3TALBITCH 11ポイント12ポイント13ポイント 3時間前 (1子コメント)
You already said you got out as a fucking E-4. I assume he means people that spent more time in than high school, chode.
[–]NotQuirkyJustAwkward 8ポイント9ポイント10ポイント 6時間前 (4子コメント)
Whoa, no need for such an aggressive response. They weren't claiming EVERYONE hates her. The statement followed a sentence that was speaking of people in the military that they've met.
"I've never heard a classmate say this professor is unfair. Everyone loves him." Clearly pertains to those who meet the criteria of students I've met who have taken his class.
[–]mickeypuig 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 8時間前 (48子コメント)
What did you do, get out as an E4?
[–]sealfoss 11ポイント12ポイント13ポイント 6時間前 (17子コメント)
Yeah. I got in right after 9/11. Thought I'd go to Afghanistan. Jokes on me, did two tours in Iraq, instead. That was enough for me.
Does that invalidate my experiences and opinion somehow?
[–]Sircampalot23 48ポイント49ポイント50ポイント 8時間前 (20子コメント)
Am military member and I don't hate her at all. There are not enough details available that are unbiased to form an accurate opinion. I don't think I will ever know the true motivations and the extent of the damage caused by the information leak. The prevailing point of view is that she unforgivably broke her word and oath of loyalty to her country and fellow service members, but it could also be said that she felt that releasing that information was the only way to uphold the same oath and that doing so was a courageous act.
I do think even if it was intentionally malicious the punishment so far has certainly far surpassed the crime.
[–]TimeKillerAccount 53ポイント54ポイント55ポイント 8時間前 (4子コメント)
but it could also be said that she felt that releasing that information was the only way to uphold the same oath and that doing so was a courageous act.
That is what people say, but it is physically imposible. She didn't even read the documents she released. She just grabbed everything she could access and released it completely unvetted into the wild. She wasn't trying to expose specific information, she was just releasing things because she was dissatisfied with service and life at the time.
[–]die_rattin 41ポイント42ポイント43ポイント 7時間前 (2子コメント)
There are not enough details available that are unbiased to form an accurate opinion.
Yes there are. Manning's communications regarding the leak have been public knowledge for years, and her motivations are clear - note that she spends a great deal of time talking about how she hates her job and her coworkers, her mental state and stress, and how badly the organization she works for is run, but only a sentence or two about the content (which she admits she largely doesn't even know).
Regardless of your position on the information itself, Manning's motives are obvious.
[–]seawied 10ポイント11ポイント12ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
First time reading these conversations. It's clear manning should not have been anywhere near state secrets and was a disturbed individual. Clearly this person wanted to play at being spy for attention or some twisted view of love.
[–]cannedairspray 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
Do they even know what she released?
[–]JustAGuyCMV 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 3時間前 (1子コメント)
I have found that the difference in hatred is between combat jobs and non-combat jobs.
Non-combat jobs really have only a small stake in the game, as they are very unlikely to be killed in this day and age. Their opinion is more like a civilian who happens to work in a military capacity.
Combat jobs usually hate this kind of shit. I know I do. You can't just put other peoples security at risk because of your unhappiness at your position. It is cowardly and she deserves all the punishment for what he did.
[–]HeroSix 18ポイント19ポイント20ポイント 7時間前 (0子コメント)
For good reason, she's not a victim here.
[–]cherrybombstation 8ポイント9ポイント10ポイント 9時間前* (8子コメント)
It's indefinite because you don't know how long a suicidal person is going to be a threat.
[–]Particle_Man_Prime 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 6時間前 (2子コメント)
Indefinite solitary detention is probably about the most fucked up thing that you could possibly do to a human being.
[–]SamEugeneOregon 884ポイント885ポイント886ポイント 11時間前 (248子コメント)
I wonder why Edward Snowden doesn't want to come home?
[–]NachoLawbre 628ポイント629ポイント630ポイント 10時間前 (106子コメント)
"If you really care about this country, you should come home and face the consequences."
Uhh no thanks. I'm good.
[–]poofyogpoof 147ポイント148ポイント149ポイント 9時間前 (6子コメント)
Yeah, the ridiculously inhumane consequences we have waiting for you. Surely sets an example of how much he cares about the country letting that happen to himself.
[–]Fractureskull 41ポイント42ポイント43ポイント 7時間前 (5子コメント)
The more you let us make you suffer the more we know you care!
[–]Roma_Victrix 16ポイント17ポイント18ポイント 5時間前 (4子コメント)
That almost sounds like something from a George Orwell novel.
Or a sub-dom BDSM blog.
[–]LyreBirb 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
Not a healthy bdsm blog. I Hough yeah that is something the department of love would say.
[–]returned_from_shadow 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 2時間前 (1子コメント)
Or forced confessions in medieval Europe.
[–]Roma_Victrix 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
DO...YOU...CONFESS??!!
Then on the morrow you shall receive your purification.
[–]SamEugeneOregon 25ポイント26ポイント27ポイント 9時間前 (7子コメント)
because our country has proven that it will throw him into a hole, for exposing wrong doing by the very govt. who is going to throw him in the hole, and what he exposed caused a public debate and widespread changes to how we spy on our own citizens, so sort that logic problem out
[–]HuginochMunin 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 3時間前 (3子コメント)
Those changes only made them get better at hiding it. And it's just more effective at suppressing public discussion about it.
[–]MambyPamby8 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
When Russia's a better option, you know shits bad.
[+][削除されました] 10時間前 (74子コメント)
[deleted]
[–]NachoLawbre 46ポイント47ポイント48ポイント 9時間前 (63子コメント)
I don't even agree with the underlying sentiment. Him coming home to face trial would not in any way help our country, so it has no relation to him caring about our country.
[–]john22544 32ポイント33ポイント34ポイント 9時間前 (9子コメント)
Edward Snowden has offered to come home if he were guaranteed a fair trial.
I’ve told the government I would return if they would guarantee a fair trial where I can make a public interest defence of why this was done and allow a jury to decide
No word back from anybody in the government.
[–]counting_eggs 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 4時間前 (0子コメント)
neither clinton or trump would advocate for a fair trial. well, hillary might if the polls say she should.
[–]meandmetwo 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 7時間前 (0子コメント)
Just like DOTCOM , He offered to come to America to stand trial as long as he was given access to his lawyers before and during his trial. The US said no.
[–]thelyfeaquatic 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 2時間前 (0子コメント)
How do you even choose the jury for that case? Has anyone not heard of him? Wouldn't they all be biased in one way or another?
[–]FucksWithGeese 32ポイント33ポイント34ポイント 10時間前* (36子コメント)
I think it's pretty clear that Manning has some mental health issues regardless of his/her time at Leavenworth.
Edit: I'm not saying transgenderism or transgenderness is a mental disorder, and I honestly can't remember if Manning switched male to female or female to male.
[–]ripvannwinkler 90ポイント91ポイント92ポイント 9時間前 (7子コメント)
Solitary confinement is not a substitute for therapy.
[–]chapterpt 27ポイント28ポイント29ポイント 7時間前 (4子コメント)
But it is a substitute for torture.
[–]SevenCs 22ポイント23ポイント24ポイント 6時間前 (1子コメント)
I'm not even sure it's a "substitute."
[–]nomofica 37ポイント38ポイント39ポイント 5時間前 (1子コメント)
More like synonymous with torture. Prolonged isolation has profound detrimental effects on the human mind and, by extension, the body.
[–]LyreBirb 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
Even on a perfectly healthy individual. Dysphoria and then solitary...
[–]Romdeau0 37ポイント38ポイント39ポイント 9時間前 (15子コメント)
Being sentenced to prison for as long as she has would make anyone depressed. Or what else are you referring to specifically?
[–]Snukkems 45ポイント46ポイント47ポイント 9時間前 (12子コメント)
Not only being sentenced, but forced to stand for 12 hours a day, subjected to blaring music so loud it damaged her hearing, and being forced to walk around in tennis shows with no laces, that kept "falling off and tripping her", being deined the ability to go to the bathroom, unless she specifically requests a roll of toilet paper (that is immediately taken away), not to mention the fact this was all going on when she was in solitary confinement the first time.
[–]BrawnyScientist 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 7時間前 (10子コメント)
Do you have a source for this?
[–]Snukkems 57ポイント58ポイント59ポイント 7時間前 (9子コメント)
. Once inside his isolation chamber for the customary 23-and-a-half hours or so, he was deprived of just about everything, including contact with other inmates and often his clothes. He was forced to sleep from 1 PM to 11 PM, naked, and was allowed to do so only when facing his lamp.
Stripped naked.
In the brig, Pfc. Manning was only allowed to make contact with the detainees directly on either side of his cell; for the duration of his extended stay, both rooms on the left and right remained vacant.
Extreme Solitary
Sometimes, said Tankersley, POI status inmates were found snoozing. “And we catch them and wake them back up,” he said. “There's basically nothing to do.” Any time Pfc. Manning had to be moved from his cage, the entire facility was put in lockdown.
If you're caught sleeping, you're woken up
Sgt. Fuller told that court that in his 17 years in military corrections, most inmates were listed POI for "a few days. No more than a week." Manning was held in maximum confinement for nine months.
Solitary for NINE MONTHS. A baby was concieved and born in the time she was alone
Pfc. Manning treatment wasn’t by the book: the sleep depravation and stripping of clothes; the humiliation; the taunts and mockery;
One source
“What really hurt me was the treatment Chelsea received in Quantico two years before the trial: stripped naked, kept in solitary confinement, made to stand in a corner, everything taken away,” said Sharon Staples, Manning’s aunt.
Her revelation echoed the 2012 report of UN special rapporteur Juan Mendez, who ruled that “the alleged prolonged solitary confinement … was … a violation of Manning’s right to physical and psychological integrity,” as well as of presumption of innocence.
Two
For nine months, Manning has been confined to his cell for 23 hours a day. During his one remaining hour, he can walk in circles in another room, with no other prisoners present. He is not allowed to doze off or relax during the day, but must answer the question “Are you OK?” verbally and in the affirmative every five minutes. At night, he is awakened to be asked again, “are you OK” every time he turns his back to the cell door or covers his head with a blanket so that the guards cannot see his face. During the past week he was forced to sleep naked and stand naked for inspection in front of his cell, and for the indefinite future must remove his clothes and wear a "smock" under claims of risk to himself that he disputes.
Three
Four
Five
[–]quazy 23ポイント24ポイント25ポイント 9時間前* (0子コメント)
not op but coming out as trans commonly involves a lot of mental health issues. not an easy process.
controversial now! but the jury is also out on if some instances of trans self-identification may be a symptom of other mental health issues. some significant minority of those who transition, do return to their original gender identity. looks like trans advocates say it's about 1-5% and that even then, it may be regret about some aspects like bottom surgery while the transition as a whole is enjoyed. detractors say the number may be more like 30%, including cases where only some aspects are regrets like now lacking job security or losing bottom sensation after surgery. truth probably somewhere in between.
i thought this take on the issue was even handed.
https://www.quora.com/Can-people-who-transition-their-gender-later-go-back-to-living-in-their-gender-assigned-at-birth-How-Are-there-any-people-who-have
[–]Pacific_Rimming 10ポイント11ポイント12ポイント 8時間前 (0子コメント)
If you aren't sure about the gender of someone, just use "their".
[–]spergery 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 5時間前 (0子コメント)
Doesn't matter if he wants to; he isn't free to. He's living at Putin's pleasure now, "guarded" by the FSB. Snowden ain't going anywhere until he stops being useful to Putin.
[+][削除されました] 6時間前 (8子コメント)
[removed]
[–]325342f23 26ポイント27ポイント28ポイント 5時間前 (2子コメント)
Snowden released far more than domestic spying programs.
[–]Mekkah 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 4時間前 (1子コメント)
People continue to push their delusional narrative of Snowden by leaving out these facts in every thread. It's just as bad as listening to Trump.
[–]gnetum 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
I don't care how terrible a person someone like Chelsea Manning might be. Nobody should be forced into solitary confinement to the point that they go insane. It's torture, even if it doesn't leave any marks.
[–]aquamarinerock 14ポイント15ポイント16ポイント 4時間前 (0子コメント)
She still doesn't deserve to be treated like this - it's borderline if not blatantly unconstitutional
[–]nykse 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
Just because you disagree with what she did (I do as well) doesn't mean you have to completely invalidate her existence, this is so incredibly hateful and petty.
[–]L0to 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 10時間前 (34子コメント)
But Edward Snowden does actually want to come home and personally just appealed to Obama for amnesty; he just doesn't want to go to prison when he does.
[–]cheese_toasties 16ポイント17ポイント18ポイント 9時間前 (32子コメント)
He said he'd be happy to do a bit but not locked away forever.
[–]stml 25ポイント26ポイント27ポイント 9時間前 (29子コメント)
He clearly loves the US. Dude is willing to spend some time in prison just to return home. People can debate whether or not what he did was right or if he should have tried to filter his releases, but I can't deny that he is a patriot.
[–]SamEugeneOregon 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 9時間前 (0子コメント)
that was what my comment was implying, thanks though
[–]ASimpleSauce 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 9時間前 (34子コメント)
Probably because he'd go to jail for leaking shit that wasn't illegal. That's what happens when you bet you know better than actual intel professionals and constitutional lawyers.
He bet his freedom that he knew better than them. Turns out he was wrong.
[–]PooleParty247 218ポイント219ポイント220ポイント 9時間前 (44子コメント)
So because someone attempted suicide and wants to die, they're gonna torture them with extreme isolation?
[–]capteurdereves 84ポイント85ポイント86ポイント 8時間前 (36子コメント)
This is a very interesting topic. As a human, shouldn't you have the natural right to take your own life? What right do we have as a society to stop someone from taking his/her own life?
[–]TechnoHorse 43ポイント44ポイント45ポイント 7時間前 (14子コメント)
I think you should have a natural right, but that the decision should also be made by a clear-minded, rationally thinking individual. The problem then is, how do you determine that? Suicide is an exceptionally permanent and final measure; life is full of possibilities. Most people who commit suicide aren't doing so because of some philosophical reasoning, but because of financial stresses, mental illness, relationship troubles etc., all of which can be passing or become less severe.
Basically society wants to take care of not just you, but your future self as well. There are a lot of people who have been suicidal in the past who are very happy to be alive today. If society let those sort of people take their own lives easily, then you might have a lot of dead people who would be happy today if not for having committed suicide.
[–]wendys182254877 20ポイント21ポイント22ポイント 3時間前 (3子コメント)
Unfortunately society projects their own desires onto everyone. Everyone who no longer wants to live is deemed mentally ill by default (not counting medically assisted suicide in some states). The logic is "I like living. If you don't like living, something is wrong and can be fixed". It's arrogant and immoral to require everyone to live against their will.
[–]Sevsquad 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 1時間前 (1子コメント)
Yet we have people who are happy their attempt failed. only 7 % of people who attempt suicide and fail go on to kill themselves, if that doesn't suggest mental illness to you I honestly don't know what does. Suicide is by and large committed by people in a temporary low point in their lives, not by rational people.
[–]Teblefer 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 6時間前 (4子コメント)
Isn't Chelsea gonna be locked up forever?
[–]Iguessilltryit 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
The problem with this argument is that anyone who wants to take their own life will be seen as irrational under any circumstances.
I think everyone should be able to commit suicide if they please as long as they are sober.
[–]dark_magi 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 4時間前 (0子コメント)
And who determines what is clear minded and rationally thinking ? A bunch of religious people called a "board" or "counsel"? Life and death decision will always be personally motivated(religions.) We dont get to choose how we enter the world, the least we should be able to do is choose how it ends. People need to stop trying to control other peoples lives.
[–]ChokSokTe 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 6時間前 (0子コメント)
Not until the government is finished punishing you for exposing their crimes.
[–]goldishblue 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 6時間前 (0子コメント)
Exactly. This makes no sense. I once met a person that got in trouble with the law for attempting suicide because apparently it's illegal so yeah. Just fucked his life even more. Doesn't make sense.
[–]reboticon 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 7時間前 (0子コメント)
It's pretty standard in lots of our 'normal' prisons and jails as well. It's what 'psych ward' normally is. Lights on 24/7 solitary.
[–]roger_alien 95ポイント96ポイント97ポイント 9時間前 (4子コメント)
So they're locking her up with the person who tried to kill her.
[–]NotQuirkyJustAwkward 16ポイント17ポイント18ポイント 6時間前 (0子コメント)
I feel bad for being amused by this, but it's a brilliant defense
[–]FrancisCurtains 12ポイント13ポイント14ポイント 7時間前 (0子コメント)
"I'm not locked in here with you, you're locked in here with me!"
[–]dhprelude 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
Best comment yet
[–]Kushmaster420xBlazer 67ポイント68ポイント69ポイント 9時間前 (13子コメント)
Who the hell writes an article with "suicide try" in the title? Surely it should be "suicide attempt"? And also that sucks :/
[–]123emailaddress321 56ポイント57ポイント58ポイント 9時間前 (47子コメント)
I remember seeing him (at the time?) in the JRCF before sentencing and transfer to the Disciplinary Barracks. Small dude. Shy. We all knew he was going to be spending a lot of time next door. Hope it works out for her. Things can seem hopeless in there.
[–]QQ_cry_more 44ポイント45ポイント46ポイント 9時間前 (44子コメント)
She threatened everyone in theater's lives. There's punishments for that.
[–]123emailaddress321 56ポイント57ポイント58ポイント 9時間前 (0子コメント)
I understand. I was downrange too. Shitty situation altogether.
[–]atalkingfish 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント 4時間前 (2子コメント)
Can you help me understand what "theater" means in this context?
[–]mike_3_tgr13119 16ポイント17ポイント18ポイント 3時間前 (1子コメント)
Theater is a country or area of operation the military is in. This theater would be Afghanistan or Iraq. People in theater are also called "deployed" or "down range".
[–]RooLoL 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
Thanks for the clarification :)
[–]ThePoose 61ポイント62ポイント63ポイント 12時間前 (25子コメント)
14 days with 7 days suspended if they have good behavior for the next 6 months.
[–]monizzle 12ポイント13ポイント14ポイント 5時間前 (0子コメント)
There is no way they are going to let Chelsea Manning out of there alive. It sounds morbid but I hope next time she tries to kill herself it works. Better to go out on your own terms sooner than later than endure 30+ years of torture and abuse.
[–]ObjectivityIsExtinct 16ポイント17ポイント18ポイント 6時間前 (0子コメント)
...having the book Manning said the prohibited book in her prison cell was "Hacker, Hoaxer, Whistleblower, Spy" by Gabriella Coleman, about the computer hacker group Anonymous.
While I feel for Manning, this is like having a book a about the Boston Bombers in the cell of someone convicted of terrorism.
Maybe I didn't absorb the article fully, but was the the suicide attempt...or suicide threat made after they found the book- in response to 'no book allowed I'll kill myself' or was it found after she was removed from her cell...after the suicide attempt?
(Rough night, mind on slow mo)
[–]honeycakes 68ポイント69ポイント70ポイント 10時間前 (25子コメント)
Having a banned book? How does the prison guards not know the book is banned when they gave it to her? That is their own fault for letting her get the book in the first place, and why are book banned at all? Unless it is "How to Escape from Maximum Security Federal Penitentiary for Dummies"
[–]Zarathustranx 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 2時間前 (2子コメント)
Her lawyer gave it to her. She wanted a book that the library didn't have and the library refused to buy it for her. So her attorney smuggled contraband into the prison for her.
[–]Denmark1976 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント 5時間前 (0子コメント)
The beatings torture will continue until the moral improves death occurs.
[–]cheggg 22ポイント23ポイント24ポイント 10時間前 (5子コメント)
Isolation will continue until morale improves.
[–]Aegis420 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 4時間前 (1子コメント)
Yeah, because when someone is so distressed they try to end their life, the best thing to do is lock them away without any contact with the world completely. That will certainly fix the problem.
[–]DeepVeinZombosis 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
...is a "suicide try" effectively the same thing as a "suicide attempt"?
[–]mosin54r 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 7時間前 (2子コメント)
suicide try...wtf reuters?
[–]Tentapuss 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 4時間前 (0子コメント)
That's it, emotionally and psychologically abuse that depression out of her. That'll work.
[–]fwubglubbel 30ポイント31ポイント32ポイント 9時間前 (2子コメント)
Why the fuck is mental illness a crime?
[–]Icommentor 14ポイント15ポイント16ポイント 6時間前 (1子コメント)
I'm impressed with the insane amount of hurt they are willing to put one person through. That's James Bond villain justice right here.
[–]nancywakelover 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
I keep being taught about how if you are fighting terrorism and the "bad guys" that you have to be better than them. If you are fighting for human rights and humanity, you have to treat everyone humanely. The good guys are the good guys because if they capture the bad guys they don't torture them. If the good guys are just as cruel as the bad guys, then there are no good guys, just different sides.
[–]ColdGuy7 11ポイント12ポイント13ポイント 9時間前 (2子コメント)
"Brave New World for most of us, 1984 if you dare to speak up" [paraphrased]
[–]TenaciousDwight 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 4時間前 (0子コメント)
We've got some real winners coming up with our laws...
[–]Illpontification 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
Holy shit the levels of sadism and irony here are depressing
[–]hfxdke 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
I used to have chronic depression when I was in middle school. I was lonely and trapped in my own mind. If someone placed my in solitary confinement, I would probably kill myself after being released. I would kill myself right in front of them and make them clean up my blood.
[–]PeytonDanning 30ポイント31ポイント32ポイント 9時間前 (2子コメント)
As a healthcare professional, this makes me sick. To punish someone who attempted to suicide with something so drastic, so isolating, so deteriorating to the human soul.
Yet there are people in power who have committed worse crimes, who are living and loving life with impunity.
[–]56473829110 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 5時間前 (1子コメント)
You have a very interesting post history for a "healthcare professional".
[–]Kryptus 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
Dropping out of vet tech school counts as a medical professional to some...
[–]ComatoseSixty 14ポイント15ポイント16ポイント 9時間前 (4子コメント)
Solitary confinement is worlds above suicide watch, so stop feeling sorry.
Source: 4 months of solitary confinement with suicide watch in plain view.
[–]highlow33 8ポイント9ポイント10ポイント 9時間前 (3子コメント)
Suicide risk was nekkid and someone coming by every 30m (or supposed to) when I was in jail. Wonder what dehumanizing comments are going to be directed to her by the guards when they come by.
[–]ComatoseSixty 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 9時間前 (2子コメント)
For my unit it was naked, no mattress or pillow, no blanket. Food was just a loaf made out of everything served that day which was eaten bare handed. No mail, no phone calls, no newspapers/magazines, and no contact with anyone but a guard.
[–]highlow33 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 7時間前 (0子コメント)
Nutraloaf? Uhhh I forgot about that. BRB fixing to barf
Yeah no mattress (gym mat), pillow (nobody had a pillow even in genpop), blanket (u-haul) either.
[–]CTESP 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 9時間前 (0子コメント)
Jeezr, I'd bite off my own tongue and inhale it.
[–]ASimpleSauce 36ポイント37ポイント38ポイント 9時間前 (57子コメント)
This is the part of the day where redditors furiously circlejerk about what a hero Manning is, conveniently ignoring literally everything she did and disclosed in order to create some myth wherein she instead divulged war crimes and shit.
The 15-24 year old reddit demographic just can't fucking help themselves, they have to show everything how anti establishment they are and how much they're against "The Man" and authority. Facts? Who cares about facts!
[–]jerzyshor 12ポイント13ポイント14ポイント 3時間前 (11子コメント)
Wow, the responses to you are...ignorant, at best.
[–]Gankstar 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 2時間前 (0子コメント)
I can hardly comprehend how politically retarded I was at 24. Yeah, most twenties somethings are totally just unaware as to how off they are. I know I was. Of course, I didnt have google then so...
[–]Diclonius_Angel 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 2時間前 (7子コメント)
What drives me nuts is these people complain about this stuff, however, they do nothing to change it. They continue their degrees in liberal arts and video game design. If you see a problem get off your duff and try and do something about it.
[–]FULLM3TALBITCH 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
Exactly. This is the same website that loved Bernie Sanders and Ron Paul before him. Loves Elon Musk. Loves literally anyone that's "anti-establishment".
So someone that leaked a bunch of shit? Of course they love her, regardless of if any of the shit was actually bad (it wasn't).
That demographic uses Reddit like Facebook. They share their account info so they have to post like they do on FB. All virtue signaling and taking the popular opinion of the groups they want to impress.
[–]JessicaRabid 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 8時間前 (10子コメント)
You are talking about a demographic that has barely lived in a time where we weren't at war.
[–]ASimpleSauce 17ポイント18ポイント19ポイント 8時間前 (5子コメント)
That's fine, but that's no excuse for blatant ignorance.
[–]JessicaRabid 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 8時間前 (4子コメント)
Ignorance is stating statistics like they are fact and generalizing a whole decade of people. I'm not sure how old you are, but I'm 34 and voted for the first time in 2000. I don't hang out with a lot of younger people in real life to talk to them and determine if they are "anti-establishment" or not and people on reddit don't have their age next to their user name. And btw, "the establishment" fucking sucks and doesn't work. I consider it more of a blind circle jerk when people automatically defend "the establishment" and insult young people as some kind of superiority tactic. Everyone should be happy that young people are even discussing things like this period, whether we agree with them or not. They shouldn't be insulted. Ignorance is curable through discussion of ideas and education, not by generalizing and talking down to others who want to learn.
[–]ASimpleSauce 11ポイント12ポイント13ポイント 7時間前 (2子コメント)
I'm 35.
Nothing is easier than throwing stones and saying "oh the system sucks". It's the easiest to do. Besides that "the establishment" is only the people that are in power now. Someone else takes over and guess what? More establishment. It's a meaningless word. It's used by people who are just trying to be anti-authority because they feel disenfranchised.
[–]TheWangernumbCode 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
Isn't it time to end this drama? Calley only did about a year for My Lai for God's sake.
[–]dustbuni 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
He/She/Choice should have thought of this before the Espionage.
[–]3boyz3Madison 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
That's helpful. For those who say you aren't a person, you are the equipment....might I advance the thought that once a human in the military becomes suicidal, they become a person once again and be sent back into civilian life? Or if not released, at least to proper treatment in military prison? I am NOT in favor of the government paying for his reassignment surgery and transition, but I don't think solitary is going to help anyone.
[–]Army0fMe 27ポイント28ポイント29ポイント 11時間前 (70子コメント)
What people don't understand is in the military, you are not a person...you are a piece of equipment. You can actually get punished for getting a sunburn. A suicide attempt is potential destruction of government property.
[–]PopeyeKhan 38ポイント39ポイント40ポイント 11時間前 (0子コメント)
This kind of punitive response to "misbehavior" driven by mental illness (including but by no means limited to depression) is very common in prisons generally. It's nothing specific to the military.
[–]Gorkymalorki 109ポイント110ポイント111ポイント 11時間前* (22子コメント)
That is a long standing rumor that is not true. I was in the military and work for the military in a department that deals with both material and personel. They are treated completely different. Military personel are not considered equipment, even the accounting and budgeting for equipment and personel is completely different. Units are not issued a soldier, they are given specific job and rank slots to fill with people, where as equipment is issued to the unit and a receipt is signed for when issued. No one signs a receipt for a soldier.
As for the sunburn rumor, you cannot get in trouble for getting a sunburn because you are damaging military equipment, but you can get in trouble for a sunburn for numerous other reasons. If you get a sunburn while on duty, then you have shown neglect and can get in trouble for that, which you can also get in trouble for messing up your feet by not changing your socks. If you get a sunburn on your off time and are not able to fulfil your duties then you can get in trouble for that, but you can also get in trouble for other negligant injuries on your off time that would interfere with your duties.
Here is an article that explains these rumors as well
[–]madagent 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 10時間前* (1子コメント)
My father witnessed it happen in the Army Reserves in the 1970s. It was a different time back then... but it was because he made himself non-mission capable and cost the government money. They were on their 2 week a year duty and traveled to a Florida training site from PA.
Don't forget that as a Commander you can do almost whatever the flying fuck you want to someone. It can be unlawful, but the burden of proof is on the Soldier to make an appeal. That illegal reprimand sure as shit stays official until the appeal process is over. There are a lot of non corporal punishments that an Army Captain can make as a Company Commander. And the approval level is that Captain. It doesn't go any higher as long as that Soldier is under the rank of E6. You can completely ruin a young Soldiers career early on by giving him endless amounts of rank reductions.
And if someone pops hot for a drug test, holy shit. You basically have their career in the palm of your hands. You can do anything between boot them out or do nothing at all. I've kicked out 5 Soldiers for failing drug tests. Not one of them went to an appeal process.
People just don't understand how many rights Soldiers give up when they sign up for the military.
[–]Gorkymalorki 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 10時間前 (0子コメント)
This is not quite right, first if the CO does not address the appeal of an article 15 within 5 days, then any punishments issued can be halted until the appeal process is finished. Also, to reduce an E-5's rank you must still file a Field Grade Article 15, which requires a Major or above.
[–]nancywakelover 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間前 (1子コメント)
The military is so far the only employer I've ever had who gave a shit about my well-being, invested resources in my self-development, and required my superiors to look out for my health and morale. Other bosses I've had just try to squeeze every productive minute out of me and pay me as little as possible.
[–]Energy-Dragon 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 11時間前 (1子コメント)
Well, every military organization is partially about killing people (while protecting some others), so this total disregard for human life is not surprising at all....
[–]rockidol 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 10時間前* (1子コメント)
Well since solitary confinement causes mental illness surely this is damage of government property right?
(Although does this even apply to her anymore, there's no way she's still part of the military).
[–]Saneless 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
You think your life is hell and you try to end it. You fail and they make it even worse.
We treat our animals better than this.
[–]pgabrielfreak 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 9時間前 (4子コメント)
Solitary is torture and we ought to be ashamed.
π Rendered by PID 28988 on app-290 at 2016-09-24 03:08:05.839861+00:00 running 6c5b7ae country code: JP.
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