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DiscussionGenuine Question: Where is The Evidence? (self.oculus)

AugmentlRift が 投稿

Genuine question:

While The Daily Beast article everyone is going nuts over attributes some pretty shameful quotes to a clearly despicable Reddit user, NimbleRichMan, they interchangeably refer to this user's quotes as Palmer Luckey's:

Luckey insists he’s just the group’s the money man—a wealthy booster who thought the meddlesome idea was funny. But he is also listed as the vice-president of the group on its website.

“It’s something that no campaign is going to run,” Luckey said of the proposed billboards for the project.

Those quotes are actually from /u/NimbleRichMan, but TDB makes the assumption this user and Luckey are the same person, and just goes ahead and attributes the quotes directly.

Now, that may well be true, but how does someone who, according to /u/NimbleRichMan's quotes, is supposedly extremely conscious of the damage that statements of overt Trump support would cause himself and his company, suddenly fess up to a political tabloid? Where's the actual evidence of the link between Luckey and this Reddit user?

I see quotes like

“I came into touch with them over Facebook,” Luckey said of the band of trolls behind the operation. “It went along the lines of ‘hey, I have a bunch of money. I would love to see more of this stuff.’ They wanted to build buzz and do fundraising.”

But with no source or attribution. These quotes seem out of character for a guy supposedly terrified of being found out.

I'm not saying the article is not true, but I am genuinely interested in the evidence behind it. References to Nimble America's supposed acknowledgment of Palmer's membership go nowhere (not a single member of the group's board is referred to by name ) .

Am I missing something?

  • Where's the actual evidence that Palmer is NimbleRichMan?
  • Why would he just up and fess up to TheDailyBeast with what looks like a frank and candid admission?
  • Also, why would a supposedly avowed Trump supporter actively reach out to a left-leaning tabloid to quash a supposed controversy that only exists because of the article itself?

We should at the very least all be asking the piece's author for some proof.

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[–]Sentient68k5,997 132ポイント133ポイント  (171子コメント)

Luckey confirmed to The Daily Beast he penned the posts under his Reddit pseudonym.

I don't really want to believe it either but the smoking gun is right there in the article. Unless you believe it's truly, entirely made up. That seems a bit too far though given there's some pretty serious legal consequences and Palmer would probably be up in arms pretty quickly to deny the attribution.

[–]Choco316 59ポイント60ポイント  (24子コメント)

I find it hard to believe it's false when his girlfriend is an open Trump supporter.

[–]ProsecutorMisconduct 33ポイント34ポイント  (6子コメント)

Look at his twitter likes. It is clear Palmer is a Trump supporter as well.

Edit:

For the doubters, read the entire article and tell me the Daily Beast didn't do their homework.

“Anonymous ‘obscenely wealthy’ donors are shady as fuck,” Trump720 added. The user then posted alleged transcripts of the community’s moderators that purport anyone questioning the legitimacy of the fundraising posts was immediately banned from the subreddit. (Moderators did not respond to requests to confirm the veracity of the transcripts from The Daily Beast at press time.)

So, presumably people here want to believe that they would publish direct quotes from Palmer without verifying they came from him... but in the same article would point out that they weren't able to verify moderator transcripts.

Does that seem plausible to anybody? Don't verify the main meat of the story, but then call themselves out when they can't verify something small?

[–]daguito81Vive -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

There is a massive difference between the 2 things you posted. On one hand you have a list of comments said by User X.. then Person X tells you that he is User X so all those quotes are now verified to be said by Person X. Web is archived and you can find those quotes and veryfy yourself that the info is good.

However a mod transcript would be a screenshot sent to them by someone. However you can't prova that that transcript is real. unless one of the participants comes forward and says that it's true.

Obviously they weren't able to get someone from the transcript to verify the information and because you don't know if the transcript is legit or forged, then you can't claim it is legit. Which is what they did.

On the other hand, you have a statement that says thgat Palmer told them that he was that reddit user. So that's verified information and they print it as such. Obviously if it was a lie and Palmer didn't say anything to them, then they just opened themselves up for a pretty retarded libel suit.

If it wasn't verified and they wanted to print it (tabloid style). They would've said "sources close to Palmer Luckey told us that he is NibleRichMan" instead of saying "Palmer confirmed to the Daily Beast that he is NimbleRichMan"

[–]ProsecutorMisconduct 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Right.

The point is that their disclaimer there shows they verify sources before printing them.

For them to put the disclaimer there, but not put it on the Palmer quotes, would make no sense.

[–]daguito81Vive 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

"The user then posted alleged transcripts of the community’s moderators that purport anyone questioning the legitimacy of the fundraising posts was immediately banned from the subreddit. (Moderators did not respond to requests to confirm the veracity of the transcripts from The Daily Beast at press time.)"

See how it says "The user then posted alleged transcripts..." That's what you're missing. They have some information and they couldn'tverify so they put it in as context but making it clear that is alleged information and that it was not verified. So you as a reader can use it as context in your way but knowing that it is not verified information.

"Luckey confirmed to The Daily Beast he penned the posts under his Reddit pseudonym."

See how it doesn't say allegedly? or "Sources close to Palmer say that he is" or "he might be" or any note about how they weren't able to verify?

It because they did. meaning that they talked to him and he said,"yeah that was me" .

If they printed that sentence that way and hadn't confirmed.. then its game over, because Facebook would sue the living daylights out of them for libel. Because that's what libel is, when youprint something about someone that is not true. Which is why newspapers have editors and go through every article posted and verify taht everything is right so that they don't open the newspaper up for a libel lawsuit.

Ben Collins, credited in the article is a Senior news editor, meaning that he had to fact check the article before printing it, or else he gets sued for libel.

So one is a verified fact by the newspaper, one is an unverified statement and labeled as such to work for context.

[–]ProsecutorMisconduct 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

It because they did. meaning that they talked to him and he said,"yeah that was me" .

You keep replying to me like I disagree with.

I'm having a hard time understanding why, because I don't think I could have been more clear in my posts that The Daily Beast verified it was Palmer.

[–]daguito81Vive 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I completely misunderstood your first post. I apologize, we're arguing for the same thing hahaha

[–]ProsecutorMisconduct 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lol, no worries. I kept reading your replies trying to reconcile the tone with the content.

[–]the320x200 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Something being plausible doesn't make it automatically true...

Even if you only count "wealthy" trump supporters (it really doesn't cost that much to buy a couple billboard ads), there's still going to be thousands of people who fit into that category.

IMO the most convincing evidence it's true is that it's blown up all over reddit and Palmer hasn't dropped a tweet saying it's not the case.

[–]lostformofvr 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Based in the elections polls almost half of the Americans voters are Trump supporters. I don't agree with them, but the reality is that there are millions of people who are Trump supporters. It won't be anything special if Palmer were a Trump supporter. The real problems would be if he were a Trump Fanatic that created a Pro - Trump shitposting group.

Anyway, i think that the article is very sensationalistic and i don't believe a lot of quotes that they say that Palmer said.

I think that Palmer should deny those quotes. And i also think that we should difference between Oculus (Abrash, Carmack, , Rubin, Mitchell, Iribe, ...) and Palmer.

[–]AugmentlRift[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (14子コメント)

Not Trump supporter > Trump supporter > Trump fanatic > Funder of Pro-Trump shitposting group.

That's the scale. You may just about have evidence of the first.

[–]karishbhr 7ポイント8ポイント  (13子コメント)

THIS. It's not the choice in candidate, it's the choice in methods to support them

[–]EricTboneJackson 3ポイント4ポイント  (12子コメント)

How is it not choice in candidate? o.O

Taken to its extreme: if you're for Hitler, I'm against you. There's nothing wrong with that.

[–]Bily_Herrington 0ポイント1ポイント  (11子コメント)

Your justification for disliking Trump is why a lot of people are voting for him. There are plenty of reasons to dislike him, screaming Hitler is the fastest way to let everyone know you are clueless.

[–]EricTboneJackson 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

You're confused. I didn't compare Trump to Hitler.

The point was that someone's support of X can justifiably change how you feel about them. Since (surprisingly) this wasn't already obvious to you, I deliberate chose X to be something you were sure to dislike (unlike Trump, who many people like). I could have used Justin Beiber, which would have helped you recognize that it's not a comparison to Trump, but again, some people actually like Beiber. Nobody likes Hitler.

Let's try this again: if you're for mosquitoes, I'm against you. There's nothing wrong with that.

Hint: I'm not comparing Trump to a mosquito.

[–]TechMF 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Actually a section of Trump supporters are big Hitler fans.

コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

    [–]swtman99 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Pretty sure that was just an analogy.

    [–]Bily_Herrington 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Yeah, a terrible analogy. Likening a man who killed 6 million+ people to someone who says mean words is insulting.

    [–]swtman99 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I don't think that's what they were saying.

    They were saying, if you support a terrible political figure (as an extreme example: Hitler) they are against you.

    That's not the same as saying Trump is as bad as Hitler.

    コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

      [–]daguito81Vive 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

      As I stated in another comment in this thread. The fact is that the statement you quoted is not speculating or anything. It is stated as fact and if it was a published lie that would affect Palmer's income or damage him (as this threads are proof of) then it would've left the publication wide the fuck open to a libel lawsuit. Which I'm guessing the editors and writer of the article know. So It would be pretty suicidal career wise to print that article saying "Palmer said so!" if it wasn't true.

      I personally don't think they would be stupid enough to do that

      コメントをもっと表示する (9 返事)

        [–]MoffKalast 42ポイント43ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Nimble America says it’s dedicated to proving that “shitposting is powerful and meme magic is real,”

        I have no further questions lol

        [–]Imp0924 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Even if it is proven that it was him, he didn't affect /r/the_Donald at all. Two mods and Milo Yiannopoulos got kicked out over pushing his scam.

        [–]darleysam 14ポイント15ポイント  (4子コメント)

        Because of the way so many internet scandals have gone lately, where the worst-case is what's immediately reported only for things to become more reasonable once the story is out, I am remaining cautious before joining the anger over this. That said, if this is confirmed to be true then damnit, I'll be pretty upset about the situation.

        [–]AugmentlRift[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

        if this is confirmed to be true then damnit, I'll be pretty upset about the situation.

        Why be upset? It's not every day we can celebrate a 24 year old learning an important life lesson ;)

        [–]darleysam 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Hah, well true, although I imagine the only lesson he'd learn from this would be "be more discreet with my opinions" than "maybe Trump is a dickhead who I shouldn't support". My personal upset would be from having given money that has, even by the time it's filtered through, in some small part supported a guy who I know thinks like that.

        [–]pasta4u 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Maybe we should all learn that if we are famous and have companies riding upon our reputation we should all shut up about political opinions . I hate Hilary who is a war hawk and racist but I'm not boy cotting the celebs who made that super pac for her. Mostly cause I'm not an asshole but whatever

        [–]nsfwonlymode 11ポイント12ポイント  (6子コメント)

        Look at his Twitter likes it's all Trump shit and Scott Adams

        [–]JayGatsby727 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

        I think there's a lot of evidence supporting Luckey as a trump supporter. The question, though, is if he's NimbleRichMan.

        [–]BrymOculus Henry 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

        It's not a question, he confirmed it in the article. There is some flat-earth level of denial in this thread, coupled with a major misunderstanding of how journalism works.

        [–]ProsecutorMisconduct 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        It seems like cooler heads are starting to prevail over the conspiracy theory that they printed outright lies that do a ton of damage, and nobody from Facebook or Oculus cares enough to correct it.

        [–]JayGatsby727 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I personally would like to see more evidence. I'm not denying or affirming it, I just like to wait for everything to come in from all sides before I settle on a conclusion.

        [–]antennarexKickstarter Backer 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

        What's odd is he posts on FB appearing to be in support of Sanders' policies.

        [–]PDAisAok 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Uh what? Almost everything he posts or comments on points to him being a Trump supporter.

        [–]dTruBRift 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

        When I read the article I thought the same thing, it was just to odd, also funding things he himself was victim of before he left Reddit..

        [–]orbsa 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

        I've watched this sub ever since the DK1 was announced. I bought into the hype with a DK2 and CV1. Everyone used to love Palmer and took him as some kind of god given tool for the advancement of VR. Now that word comes out that the man donated and helped start some PAC group for advertising a political candidate that a sizable chunk of a country would have to endorse, you hate the man? The guy is rich. Plenty of wealthy people help fund PAC groups that spread info and advertise on either side of the political spectrum. On the very same website there was an article of another PAC that spend more than a million on internet tactics: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/04/21/hillary-pac-spends-1-million-to-correct-commenters-on-reddit-and-facebook.html This happens on both sides of politics every single election and is funded by rich businessmen/women all over the country. Now, Granted, the liberal funded group probably doesn't shitpost memes for their candidate. They are still using online tactics to try and spread/convert people over to their specific candidate. Don't try to justify your hate to the fact the /r/The_Donald acts like a hivemind and deletes posts that may not help their candidate. It's a political subreddit that thrives off the echochamber it is. I'm sure if you went to r/hillaryclinton and tried to post articles that don't help their candidate, you will probably get banned/deleted or at-least downvoted into oblivion. That is the problem with having a subreddit dedicated and browsed only by people who care about what the subreddit is for. The very nature of reddit creates these hivemind echochambers. Now, The fact that maybe Palmer's political choices may not align with your own, doesn't make him a bad person. Just because he has the money blow trying to promote that candidate, doesn't make him a bad person. I don't know where all this hate has come from recently, but I miss the sub we used to have where we like and encouraged Palmer and friends to help bring us these gifts which help further the advancement of technology and games.

        [–]RABID666Rift 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Have an up vote for making a reasonable point. :)

        [–]optimisskryme [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

        I think it matters what movement the person is funding. From what I read Nimble America is at least partially a white supremacist group. Most people don't tolerate that shit.

        [–]Seanspeed 44ポイント45ポイント  (22子コメント)

        That's what I'm waiting for.

        Some of these quotes just seem straight up cartoonish.

        And if Palmer really is behind it all, he's a despicable human being with an insanely idiotic approach to being on the internet.

        We'll see. I'm sure there'll be denials if this isn't true. Silence will confirm it.

        [–]SendoTargetDK1,DK2,CV1 20ポイント21ポイント  (3子コメント)

        I'm sure there'll be denials if this isn't true. Silence will confirm it.

        Denies or not denies the internet takes things with the first impression and stick with it.

        [–]daguito81Vive 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

        This is the thing about this particular scenario. The article says that Palmer said that he was the reddit user. And then painted him in a bad light. If it was made up, Palmer could and most likely sue the living shit out of them right now for slander or libel (not an attorney so I don't really know when one or the other is the appropriate one)

        Specially considering that Palmer is the spokesperson of Oculus.. So this hurts the oculus brand money wise. Which you can see from the thread already. And as Oculus is a Facebook brand. Facebook would sue the living shit out of this as well.

        Now considering Facebook is Facebook and this is in reddit which we can be sure they monitor 24/7 .. They know about this so I would assume that if it was a lie, they would've made a statement already saying that it is a lie and that they really taking legal action against them.

        Specially as the article says "Palmer confirmed that he is X" it's not speculation, it's stated as fact. Which if it's not, then they open themselves to a lawsuit.

        Which makes me think.. Why hasn't anyone from Facebook or Oculus said that it's not true? Or Palmer himself?

        [–]Hyakku 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Slander is oral defamation; libel is published (usually written) defamation with some other elements. For libel, you need a published statement of fact, that is false, without privilege, that is injurious or causes special damages and is at least published negligently (generally, it was foreseeable that damage could result). For public figures the bar is lower than for private individuals, where you usually have to prove specific malicious intent.

        In this case, if they have explicitly lied about a statement he did not make, it's almost certainly a prima facie case of libel. The daily beast is not a no name publication; this is very likely real.

        [–]Seanspeed 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Yea, the damage will be done, but having the truth come out is still important.

        [–]MarkKB 13ポイント14ポイント  (12子コメント)

        I generally agree with you up until here-

        Silence will confirm it.

        No, it wouldn't, IMO. It would be suspicious, but it is not proof by any means.

        [–]Seanspeed 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Not literal proof, but I'll treat it as a confirmation. This is something that would be really important to address were it untrue.

        [–]DougRocket 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

        True, but his (and oculus') reputation will suffer from a prolonged silence on his part.

        [–]subcideRift 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

        I think it's totally fair to damage his reputation. I think it's slightly unfair to hold this against Oculus as a company though.

        [–]mmichaeljjjfoxxx 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

        It will happen though. The comments about Trump supporters living in their own "virtual reality" practically write themselves. I don't imagine the damage will be too bad, but unless this is all proven false, Palmer will be indefinitely associated with supporting the alt right. For a time, it's likely that Oculus will too. Not saying it's fair, but I think it's likely.

        [–]subcideRift 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Yep I have no doubt about that. I'd like to try to be a voice of reason here to encourage against that though, as I know what this sub can be like at it's worst. :)

        [–]ProsecutorMisconduct 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

        How is this being upvoted?

        Silence would absolutely confirm it as true. You wouldn't allow a publication to slander like this and not react to it at all.

        This is merely meant to setup a way that people who can't bring themselves to believe it is true to continue believing it, hoping that he just stays silent about it.

        [–]Hobocop1984 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

        Because if the rumors are false, and he has a clear case of libel against the site, it would be in his best interest not to speak out about it until it goes to court.

        [–]ProsecutorMisconduct 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

        Where did you come up with that? Genuinely wondering, because it is completely untrue.

        The idea that it isn't in your best interest to come out and deny something as untrue and then sue the publication very loudly and publicly is absurd.

        In fact, the first thing you would do is deny it, because it actively harms your reputation the longer it is out there.

        Indeed, any time something false is actually posted, people immediately deny it and start the legal process.

        You are just making things up to try and make silence seem like something it isn't.

        [–]Hobocop1984 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

        I think it's all about the timing. Prolonged silence, yeah, looks guilty. But being that the story just broke, if it was me I'd let it breathe for a bit while I get my lawyers together.

        The whole thing seems a bit weird. I'm not assuming one side or the other, but the whole article seems fishy to me, like he's supposedly using an anonymous account yet also confirming to a news site that it's him?

        [–]ProsecutorMisconduct 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

        But being that the story just broke, if it was me I'd let it breathe for a bit while I get my lawyers together.

        Listen... this whole thread is just off base.

        If you look at the whole story, it is quite clear they didn't make it up.

        They point out other stuff they weren't able to verify. For example, they had moderator transcript sent to them, and because they weren't able to get it verified, they specifically call it out and say they weren't able to verify the transcript by press time.

        They wouldn't just point blank make something up and publish it, and then in the same article receive transcripts and try to verify those transcripts, and then when they couldn't, note in the article they couldn't verify it. That makes literally no sense whatsoever.

        What very likely happened is that they linked Palmer to the account, and when they asked him about it, he had to admit it because they already had substantial proof it was him.

        This whole notion that The Daily Beast made it up is, quite frankly, off the deep end.

        The daily beast is not a tabloid, notwithstanding people here calling it that.

        And as I said before, the very first thing you would do is deny that it is true. That is what happens in every other case.

        People here are bending over backwards and making massive leaps of faith in order to come up with a scenario in which it isn't true. For example, by determining that it is best to stay silent when someone slanders your name.

        [–]Hobocop1984 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        What very likely happened is that they linked Palmer to the account, and when they asked him about it, he had to admit it because they already had substantial proof it was him.

        That seems like the most likely scenario. If so, pretty embarrassing to see Palmer consistently keep losing credibility like this with VR fans. He had me going up until the bundled Xbox controller, now it actually feels like he is actively trolling the VR community. Maybe he's a closet Vive supporter.

        [–]wfunction 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

        And if Palmer really is behind it all, he's a despicable human being with an insanely idiotic approach to being on the internet.

        To be fair, I can see how a young guy could grow up to believe in such things if they were sheltered and primarily interacted with others over the internet via games or messageboards like 4chan. This is how Palmer Luckey grew up.

        This is especially true of someone who only reads pseudo-intellectual blog spam or other media and not actual books (that aren't extremely biased) or well researched academic papers/articles.

        [–]Seanspeed 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

        That may be. And it'd be unfortunate.

        But most people who do 'bad things' can be explained by something other than simply having evil genes or something. It explains, but it does not excuse.

        [–]ash0787 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

        we have no way of knowing exactly what palmer believes, there are many reasons people might choose to vote for one candidate over the other, and memes are primarily a form of comedy, and ' Alt Right' isa term that was only widely publicized less than 1 month ago, its not well understood and is mainly used as a poltiical attack vector.

        [–]wfunction 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        The alt-right/new right has been around for a long time (the term alt-right was coined almost a decade ago). The only difference now is that it's a much bigger tent with much more variety among its followers. Originally it was mainly comprised of self-proclaimed "white nationalists" and "racial realists", and the original founders of the movement still insist it is (go read the sidebar on /r/altright). It started as a racial movement more than a political movement and anti immigration is still the glue that holds them together.

        The thing is, Palmer seems to be a big fan of Milo and Milo's views are to the right of even typical Trump supporters. If Palmer was in any way moderate he wouldn't be piggybacking on Milo or using /pol/ tactics.

        [–]dogintheholeRift 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        This has already gotten too much coverage for him to have just not said anything. He would've made some post about it if it was an outright lie. Plus I really don't think, think being an important word, that the daily beast would just completely make up the fact that this came directly from Palmer, I mean what would that do to their company? It would be an extreme embarrassment.

        [–]kerplowRift 21ポイント22ポイント  (9子コメント)

        the first stage of grief is denial. I've moved on to anger. fuck that dude, Oculus doesn't need him anymore. I do feel kind of bad saying that, but then I think about all the shit Trump has said

        [–]fuck_norris 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

        OP

        [–]Redararis 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Man, this story is way too similar to the new season of south park!

        [–]rweseriousrightnow 8ポイント9ポイント  (12子コメント)

        Palmer said that was his screen name...did your even bother reading the article? If that was a lie the Daily Beat will be sued into oblivion and Palmer would easily prevail. A major publication like the Daily Beast isn't going to be that stupid. It's the truth from Palmer's mouth.

        [–]AugmentlRift[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (11子コメント)

        Palmer said that was his screen name

        Critical thinking is dead.

        [–]rweseriousrightnow 17ポイント18ポイント  (10子コメント)

        What does that mean? Are you trying to say the Daily Beast just lied and didn't ask him like they said?

        Uh, I'm an attorney and I know the Daily Beast also has attorneys. Daily Beast would go the way of Gawker if what you're saying is true. It would be suicide.

        But yeah, your attitude shows you don't have the slightest clue what you're taking about, haha.

        [–]binaryecho 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

        What does that mean?

        It's means they don't like the story because it doesn't fit their narrative so by default everything is false and fake.

        [–]pasta4u 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

        well lawyers don't know everything and editors sometimes don't care about what lawyers have to say ... see the gawker /Hogan stuff .

        Anyway , why does anyone care to being with ?

        [–]rweseriousrightnow [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

        see the gawker /Hogan stuff .

        The Gawker case was on the limits of the law. It was a risk for sure, but not a guaranteed loss. Lying would be a guaranteed loss. It's very different. Also, papers that get caught lying like that do not do very well.

        If you don't care go do something else.

        コメントをもっと表示する (7 返事)

          [–]clearlyunseen 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

          A quick look at his and his girlfriend's Twitter is all the proof anyone needs really.

          [–]teachersecret 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Pretty sure she deleted her twitter account today, so you won't be looking at that.

          コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

            [–]Negchampa999Rift 19ポイント20ポイント  (15子コメント)

            Wow dude. You really went to great lengths to convince your self of what you didn't want to hear. If it wasn't true all Palmer has to do is come on here and say so. But i don't see that happening.

            [–]WannabeTeslaZoe 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I don't feel that pointing out some glaring inconsistencies and oddities is "going to great lengths". I wouldn't be surprised if Palmer was the user, but this whole way this has been revealed is bizarre.

            [–]bartycrank 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Given Palmer's reddit history, what kind of drugs are you on to think that would make ANY difference?

            [–]AugmentlRift[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (12子コメント)

            You really went to great lengths to convince your self of what you didn't want to hear

            On the contrary, it sounds to me like your bar to believing something you want to hear is pretty low. By the way, did you hear that they're removing the word "Gullible" from the dictionary? True story!

            Now, regarding your reading comprehension:

            I'm not saying the article is not true, but I am genuinely interested in the evidence behind it. References to Nimble America's supposed acknowledgment of Palmer's membership go nowhere (not a single member of the group's board is referred to by name ) .

            [–]GeneralQuinky 33ポイント34ポイント  (10子コメント)

            Jesus, OP. If you read the article, "the evidence behind it" is Palmer himself telling them that it's true. They are not the primary source, Palmer is.

            "Luckey confirmed to The Daily Beast". It doesn't get more black-on-white than that. This is how journalism works.

            If they straight up lied about him confirming it, they would open themselves up to getting sued to extinction.

            Journalists don't have to provide every single record of every single conversation they have had, when they report on someone saying something.

            [–]AugmentlRift[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (9子コメント)

            Jesus, OP. If you read the article, "the evidence behind it" is Palmer himself telling them that it's true.

            So it's true because an uncorroborated source says Palmer talked to him and confessed, despite supposedly being the same guy who said "no one dares speak" for fear of blacklisting? Right, totally makes sense.

            If TDC had enough dirt on Palmer to elicit such a damaging and frank confession, they'd have published it.

            [–]Railboy 10ポイント11ポイント  (7子コメント)

            I don't understand why you're so skeptical. If I were Palmer and someone had managed to link me to this alt, I'd admit it straight away. It's the smart move.

            I don't agree with his politics, and I understand his desire for secrecy, but let's be honest - it's not like he murdered someone here. It would be far, far more damaging if he denied it and was later shown to be lying. Admitting it is just yanking off the band aid.

            [–]AugmentlRift[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

            If I were Palmer and someone had managed to link me to this alt

            If I had hard evidence linking Palmer to that alt...

            I would have published it.

            [–]Railboy 19ポイント20ポイント  (5子コメント)

            I feel like you're not getting this. They don't need to publish any hard evience if they talked to Palmer and he said 'yeah, it was me.'

            If you're accusing them not getting confirmation from him - ie, of making the whole thing up to smear Palmer - then I'm afraid you've lost the plot. Journalism may be in a bad way, but this isn't some internet zine. If they outright lied that would be a MUCH bigger story than the Palmer thing.

            [–]Goqham 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

            But the thing is they haven't said that they did speak to Palmer or how they did so. They just attribute a bunch of quotes to him throughout the story, and say that he admitted to operating that account. For all we know from reading the article, they contacted this account looking for information and the account owner decided to claim that they were Palmer, then everything said by this account owner in the following discussion has been attributed to Palmer. Between the lack of detail in the story and the inconsistencies in some of what's been said, there's every reason to at least be a little suspicious of what's going on.

            What reason is there for the site to not back up any of the story with hard proof, unless they actually can't?

            Actually, remember when that random taxi driver got interviewed on live TV being mistakenly taken as an Apple representative? If he said something like how he thought the next iPhone should also run Android, other news sources would likely have then "truthfully" reported on "Apple's shock plans for the next iPhone!", all of it legitimately sourced as far as anyone could tell.

            [–]daguito81Vive 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

            What the hell do you think "Luckey confirmed to The Daily Beast he penned the posts under his Reddit pseudonym." means?

            Have you guys ever read a single Newspaper article in any major newspaper in the world? like really?

            NYT doesn't post a screenshot of the emails of comments that they get from X company or Y person. They post it if it's true, because if they post it and say "Palmer told us This" and it's a lie. Then there is a libel suit that will erase them from existence.

            This is why tabloids are really careful with their wording and they never confirm anything, its all speculation. "Sources close to Brad Pitt, told us that he has 3 wives" Because you're speculating on something.

            This article is not speculating, it's stating as fact. If they were lying, then they just opened themselves to an extremely easy libel suit and would be out of business pretty damn fast.

            This is why you have editors and senior editors verifying and checking everything to make sure they don't print something that is not triue.

            If they just contacted the account and said it was Palmer then that would be the most fucking retarded journalist in the history of newspapers.

            But again, NYT or WSJ doesn't post transcripts of interviews and conversations and screenshots of chats. They report on what they find, if its a lie they get sued by the damaged party.

            This is people doing Olympic level mental gymnastics to fool themselves that this is not true

            [–]ChangloriousBastard 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            If the Daily Beast is lying, they could be easily sued for libel. You don't confirm a direct source and publish it unless it's true.

            [–]Negchampa999Rift 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I think you need to re-adjust your tin foil hat. The evidence is Palmer himself !

            [–]RBMDragon 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Hihi; single source, circlejerked back from other blogs, references to Luckey's Facebook profile, nothing but 2 "I voted" posts plus a Bernie Sanders video that was political.

            Imagine if the scientific community relied on one article for validating a scientific theory? Come on, I know I fall victim to these things too.

            [–]fortheshittersKickstarter Backer 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

            lol this whole thread is hilarious, its like watching the the 5 stages of grief in real time.

            [–]GoT_LoL 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

            Well...our lord and saviour John Carmack did not transcend the physical world by shitposting memes and getting caught up in politics and girls dressed up like tomb raider on twitter.

            As long as hes the man behind the curtain, I still have plenty of faith in oculus to deliver killer hardware.

            [–]Larry_Mudd 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

            I wouldn't look to Carmack's politics for redemption - he's a government-should-do-nothing Randian.

            Carmack's politics are gross, Luckey's politics are gross, but I've had no trouble looking past that if they are putting out desirable product.

            This is beyond any of the cringey posts I've seen on Palmer's FB/Twitter, for sure - but even if it turns out that Palmer is... uh... "deplorable," it doesn't carry much weight as far as my perception of Oculus is concerned.

            [–]GoT_LoL 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Definitely didnt mean it that way...just that I have faith in his work and if this shitstorm somehow caused Palmer to leave that I would still feel in good hands with Carmack.

            I honestly didnt mean to infer politics in my statement...I just meant the products.

            [–]gated73 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

            I'm not a Palmer fan. In fact, I don't like his antics very much. However, his politics aren't a reason why. If he were a liberal celebrity saying these things about the right, it would be a non-issue - it may even get him a lot of free press and adulation (the Amy Schumer strategy comes to mind).

            Sure, he's an immature brat, but this is not something I would vilify him for.

            [–]Yawehg 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

            I dunno, I think astro-turfing is pretty universally looked down on.

            [–]polezo 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Right? Political views are one thing but organizing and infusing money into Superpac that seeds reddit comments is entirely another.

            [–]Cyda_ 5ポイント6ポイント  (9子コメント)

            Yeah, this whole thing stinks. I also find it hard to believe he would just confess to something like this, especially considering that OC3 is due and touch release shortly afterwards. It comes across more like an attempt at a PCMR style character assassination and an attempt to discredit Oculus than it does a real story.

            [–]ProsecutorMisconduct 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

            If I had to bet, he confessed because The Daily Beast had linked him to the account, and they would have published that evidence had he not admitted it.

            Thus, he admitted to it in order to seem like he wasn't trying to hide it.

            [–]Cyda_ 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

            I'm not convinced. It all sounds too convenient, especially the timing of it all. This NimbleRichMan person specifically says "Unfortunately, I have to be careful with any information that could let people figure out my exact identity." and then we are supposed to believe the very same guy suddenly says to TDB "Ok, you got me, I'm Palmer Lucky". It doesn't add up.

            [–]ProsecutorMisconduct 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

            When it was first posted, Milo Yiannopoulos from Breitbart said that he knew who was behind the account and that it was real.

            Milo got ousted from The_Donald as a result.

            That right there is just more proof. Other people knew he was behind the account.

            Again, I would bet a lot of money that The Daily Beast had information linking him to the account (given that other people knew it was him, that isn't at all implausible) and he confessed because he had to.

            Go look at the quotes. It sounds like the type of reasoning you would give once you've been found out.

            [–]teachersecret 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

            And now I wonder if Milo, the troll, trolled Palmer Luckey.

            I can say Milo isn't someone I'd trust with potentially personally damaging information.

            [–]ash0787 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

            no, milo isnt that type of troll, milo only does things if it makes him more famous / gets him more money or promotes his ideas

            [–]ProsecutorMisconduct 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Yeah, my read is that Milo is the one who gave him up.

            [–]fortheshittersKickstarter Backer [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            TIL The Daily Beast is in cahoots with the PCMR crowd.

            [–]Jackrabbit710 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

            I wouldn't be surprised to be honest

            [–]Cyda_ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Time will tell. It is all very odd that's for sure.

            [–]RealParityFinally delivered! 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

            For the next 48 hours, I will match your donations dollar for dollar. Donate ten dollars and I will match you by flying my jet a minute less. Donate a hundred and I will match you by skipping a glass of scotch.

            Does not sound like a thing Palmer would say in my opinion. That would have to be helicopter and fruit juice to be him.

            Source

            [–]korDen 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

            Came here to post the same thing. In addition:

            I encouraged him to run in the last election, but the overwhelming power, resources, and institutional advantages available to a sitting President.

            In the last election, Palmer was nobody, so this is a lie, too.

            [–]natiahs [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            At the time of the last election, Palmer had concluded one of the most successful Kickstarter campaigns in the company's history.

            [–]Virtualis_reVive 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

            If this isnt Palmer, the damage has already been done. That's journalism anno 2016 😡

            [–]Leviatein𝕆𝕔𝕦𝕝𝕦𝕤 ℝ𝕚𝕗𝕥 | 𝔾𝕖𝕒𝕣𝕍ℝ | ℙ𝕊𝕍ℝ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            i doubt facebook is afraid to sink a little news site over libel :P

            or atleast the author anyway

            of course assuming it is fake, if not, oh well no biggie anyway, its only half of americas voting population which is not a big number to begin with

            [–]Pennsylvania6-5000 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Okay, for me, the largest bit of evidence comes in that this has been in the 24 hour news cycle now, and he has not come out against the article, denied the article, or made any statement about the article, and yet, with him being the most visible person associated with Oculus, this has the potential to alienate a lot of potential consumers of the product. The only action we've seen is the deletion of the account NimbleRichMan, hoping to make this all go away.

            If you were in the same position, you'd probably place a statement to at least try to steer the conversation elsewhere, or deny the confirmation. He has not, and I do not think he will.

            [–]linksys17 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Haha and the mods of this reddit deleted my post when i talked about this. Dont get me wrong i love shitposting and donald trump. I have a new found respect for Palmer Luckey :)

            [–]LockeSteerpike 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

            I think if Palmer Lucky doesn't sue for libel after that article, it will basically answer my questions.

            [–]Leviatein𝕆𝕔𝕦𝕝𝕦𝕤 ℝ𝕚𝕗𝕥 | 𝔾𝕖𝕒𝕣𝕍ℝ | ℙ𝕊𝕍ℝ 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

            this, its pretty much about as damaging as what escapist did to star citizen and that very nearly went to court

            [–]Nate3DAnimator 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

            This is just an not-so-elaborate mind fuck generated by some devious individuals. Do you know how easy it is to emulate a person with nothing but text? It's mind-numbing how gullible the majority are right now.

            All it takes is the slightest breeze and anti-Oculus redditors are upvoting in massive numbers the likes of which positive threads never see. This is what makes me hate the VR community. This bullshit. Eternal September has turned the subreddit into a lulz campaign.

            It is less than two weeks before Connect 3, where we know Oculus is going to release a massive amount of information on their motion controllers which will directly compete with the majority of anti-Oculus sentiment. The timing of this article is not a coincidence.

            Can you even believe developers are dropping support? How did these @#$%& even get touch kits with such temperamental behavior?! That pisses me off more than anything. Don't want your touch kit? Give it to a sensible adult.

            [–]daguito81Vive 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            YEAH!!!! Let's open ourselves to libel so we can put a thorn on Oculus' side for OC3!!! That'll teach them!!!! We have millions and millions and we can spend millions in legal fees for the next year and still lose and have to pay millions in reparations for libel!!! We will probably go broke and have to close the publication.. but no worries!!! it was all worth it to say Palmer is a Trump supporter right before OC3!

            The mental Gymnastics in this thread are olympic level!

            [–]Cyda_ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Yeah, I'm thinking pretty much the same thing.

            [–]bonerjam 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

            The Guardian, which is a very prestigious paper, also covered it. These papers wouldn't be risking a libel suit to nail a relatively unknown guy. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/23/oculus-rift-vr-palmer-luckey-trump-shitposts

            [–]SomniumOv 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

            The Guardian doesn't risk anything, they are reporting the Daily Beast's words. If the story proves to be false or incorrect, the Guardian can dump it all on the Daily Beast.

            [–]bonerjam 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

            True, but it at least shows the Guardian thinks there's merit.

            [–]SomniumOv 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Not denying that. Searching for additionnal sources should always be a good thing, however.

            [–]Jackrabbit710 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

            The guardian are always one to stir the pot

            [–]Mentioned_Videos 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Videos in this thread: Watch Playlist ▶

            VIDEO COMMENT
            Chaos in Costa Mesa After Trump Rally 2 - No evidence that Palmer is NimbleRichMan, but nevertheless interesting!
            Obama 'founded ISIS' - Donald Trump 1 - That was after his speech where he said Obama literally founded ISIS. Go retcon your Trumpisms somewhere else.
            (1) Trump: Obama, Clinton co-founded ISIS (2) Trump doubles down his claim that Obama founded ISIS, adds Obama is ISIS' "Most valuable player" 1 - If you actually listen to what he said, at his campaign rally, he said it OVER AND OVER. And then when pressed on it by Hugh Hewitt, who was trying to give him an out by saying "We know what you meant, he created the vacuum" etc., Trump dou...

            I'm a bot working hard to help Redditors find related videos to watch.

            Play All | Info | Get it on Chrome / Firefox

            [–]clevverguy -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Genuine question: Who gives a shit? Let the man have his own beliefs.

            [–]lenne0816 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I actually think sby like palmer wouldnt have the time on his hands to bother with something infantile like this

            [–]JorgTheElder -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

            <s>How dare you actually ask people to think for themselves! Palmer is rich, we should always take the word of some random dude on the internet when they are saying things we don't like about rich people! </s>

            [–]Davepen -3ポイント-2ポイント  (29子コメント)

            The account has been deleted, do you need any more proof?

            [–]AugmentlRift[S] 23ポイント24ポイント  (26子コメント)

            Yes. Proof that it was linked to Palmer in the first place.

            Man, the standard for evidence is really lacking these days. OK, let me create an account, say something horrible on it, delete it, and then attribute it to you.

            Good luck proving it wasn't you all along.

            [–]Davepen -2ポイント-1ポイント  (25子コメント)

            Deletion once found out is generally a pretty decent admission of guilt.

            I mean, I have no reason to doubt the Daily Beast's journalistic integrity.

            As far as I know Palmer has not come out to deny this?

            IDGAF though, I haven't supported Oculus for a long time, this is just the icing on the cake.

            [–]AugmentlRift[S] 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

            As far as I know Palmer has not come out to deny this

            As far as I know Palmer is sleeping right now.

            [–]Seanspeed 10ポイント11ポイント  (18子コメント)

            Deletion once found out is generally a pretty decent admission of guilt.

            The fuck? No it's not.

            I haven't supported Oculus for a long time, this is just the icing on the cake.

            Right. So you have a vested interest in wanting to believe it. Amazing how standards of evidence change in these situations...

            [–]Davepen 1ポイント2ポイント  (17子コメント)

            The fuck? No it's not.

            ..is it not?

            So why delete the account at all?

            So you have a vested interest in wanting to believe it.

            Nope, like I said I don't care, it means nothing to me (oh Vienna).

            [–]Seanspeed 9ポイント10ポイント  (16子コメント)

            So why delete the account at all?

            Because you dont want the account to be inundated with people responding to you? Because you've done what you wanted with the account? Because you're trying to make it look like something happened? Who fucking knows. Deleting an account is nothing remotely close to confirmation, though.

            Nope, like I said I don't care, it means nothing to me.

            Obviously it does. You are clearly enjoying it, as you said you specifically dont support Oculus and feel this is 'icing on the cake'.

            [–]kamegami 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Trolls don't delete accounts???

            [–]MarkyparkyMehOculus Home: MarkyparkyMe 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

            I've seen it all before as a subscriber of /r/HalfLife. We get it all the time - someone turns up on a new account claiming it's an alt account for security, they're from Valve etc. They spew made up stuff about the plans for Half Life 3 (plans that sound like they come from someone who has never played a Half Life game), and then as soon as anybody notices the post and archives it, they delete the account to make it look more real.

            [–]Davepen 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Cmon Gabe...

            Just do it already

            I need it.

            [–]The_siderian 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

            Deletion once found out is generally a pretty decent admission of guilt.

            That doesn't really hold when he has supposedly had an interview and gleefully admitted to it. Why would you tell a news site that you did something and then try to hide the evidence?

            [–]ABSOLUTELY__BASED 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

            I feel like the same could be asked of Hilary's emails

            [–]Parzival_rpo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            No evidence that Palmer is NimbleRichMan, but nevertheless interesting! https://youtu.be/oJLQMbYrAkc?t=1m51s

            [–]VRisingRift 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

            So what if Palmer supports Trump. Trump and Hillary are essentially tied right now in the elections which means they have equal numbers supporting them. Palmer is not responding because he stopped responding months ago.

            [–]DrLooseGoose 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

            Are you not worried he's using the same tactics to further his own company/product?

            [–]VRisingRift 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

            I'm in Canada so very little of what you guys do with your lives worries me. I don't really think you guys should run around with guns but it's your country and I support what the majority of you decide to do on that issue. Each political party has things I don't agree with with but I also support your right to choose the party of your choice.

            [–]DrLooseGoose 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

            I was not referring to anything political at all. What I'm saying is:

            If he's willing to use Astroturfing, trolling, shitposting ect ect. for his political agenda he would also be willing to use it on this subreddit and others to help his own company/product.

            [–]Ber10 -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

            I do not need proof for anything. Frankly I dont care what he does. Oculus belongs to Facebook VR will take off. Doubt he has much Influence anymore. CV1 is still a good product and I doubt everyone at oculus and facebook runs a meme shitposting machine. If you have a big collection of people someone will always do something you highly disagree with. There is still alot of talent and potential in Oculus which might yield amazing results.

            [–]subcideRift 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I suspect palmer is waiting to get into work today and talk to a PR advisor before commenting. Give it 12 hours and we should know more.

            [–]Lajamerr_Mittesdine -3ポイント-2ポイント  (3子コメント)

            I honestly don't see the problem even if he did support Donald Trump.

            Everyone can vote and support who they want.

            "You can vote for anyone you want, but not that one."

            [–]stroodle_dumplin 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

            With Oculus Connect and the Touch controllers release date imminent the shills are getting one last attempt at an Oculus hit piece. Notice how the only people concerned about this don't even frequent this subreddit at all? The top comment in that thread about losing faith in Oculus is from a day old throwaway account. Reddit is truly dominated by people with a certain agenda. I'd say if anything theres a group of people being paid to post anti Oculus comments in every single subreddit. If Palmer actually was stupid enough to say something like this in an interview I would never stick up for him again. It just seems like such an idiotic bumble so close to another major point for Oculus I'm having a hard time believing it. Especially someone who went to school for journalism. Either way it's a disgusting situation, it either ends up being wrong and theres thousands of shitty people who went with it and spread it everywhere(who will never apologize), or Palmer was the shitty one saying dumb things on the internet he shouldn't have.

            [–]-Posthuman- -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

            Let's keep some perspective folks. I was a dumbass at 24 too. I bet most of you were, are or will be too. The difference was that I wasn't a famous mega-millionaire in a position to treat the world as my sandbox to shit in. Palmer is. So, unlike me, his mistakes and life-lessons play out in front of the world. I grew up. He will too.

            [–]eoliveri 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            But part of growing up is acknowledging your mistakes, apologizing for them, and learning from them. Has he?

            コメントをもっと表示する (38 返事)