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submitted by abandonedfiancee
This happened about eight months ago, and I’ve tried to be reasonable and put it past me but I’m really struggling. I’ve been told what he did was reasonable, makes sense, etc, but I keep coming back to that moment of total abandonment and fear when I realised he’d run. I just feel completely alone around him now.
We were walking home from a work function at a bar at around 1am. Neither of us had drunk that evening so we weren’t even slightly tipsy. Two guys across the street from us crossed over and approached us asking if we knew where such-and-such a street was. As fiancé turned around to point out where the street was, one of the guys pulled out a knife and told us to stop moving and to give him all our shit (phone, wallet, etc). I was surprised by how calm I was in the moment, and told them I needed to reach into my coat pocket to get my phone. As I was doing that, the guy pressed the knife against my ribs as warning because I guess he was worried I had a gun (even though that’s pretty unlikely in my country). When this happened, my fiancé bolted. It took me a bit to even realise he’d left me, and when I realised that he’d run I was certain I was about to get badly hurt or die.
Fortunately, the thieves seemed to get kind of spooked by him getting away and just hurried me up. They took my phone, bag (with my purse with all my money, cards, personal effects), necklace (worth like ten bucks) and legged it. The whole ordeal from start to finish took maybe five minutes.
I was kind of in shock and wandered off back up the street, heading back towards the bar, not even really thinking. A few minutes later my fiancé found me and told me he called the police, who arrived about ten minutes later.
I found out that fiancé had run about a block away, calling emergency services as he ran. We were both okay physically, except for a tiny bit of broken skin on my ribs where they’d pressed the knife.
My fiancé says what he does makes sense – that if he’d hung around and it turns out they’d wanted to hurt us or worse, we’d both be fucked because no one else would be around to call the cops or an ambulance. That he wanted to be alive and able to help in case something happened to me. He also says that by running away, the thieves didn’t want to hang around any longer than necessary (which is true), which might have saved me. His mum agrees and has praised him for not being an idiot, but my own mother has quietly told me she thinks he’s a coward for abandoning his wife-to-be (but she also has very oldschool beliefs about gender roles). Fiancé asked me not to tell our friends exactly what happened, because he says they wouldn’t understand his actions unless they were there.
My own thoughts are that, by running away, he potentially significantly decreased my chance of survival. I’m only about 157cm (5’2”) and 51kgs (110lbs). He’s 178cm (5’10”) and 75kg (165lbs). The two guys were about his size. They would have been able to easily overpower/subdue me, but my fiancé there would have made it 2v2 (although we would have still been at a disadvantage, them still having a knife and size advantage) and not left me completely at the mercy of two criminals who mug couples at night. I also wonder, what would have happened if him leaving me had given them the courage to do something worse? I mean, I don't think they would have - they seemed pretty strung out, interested in valuables and cash only - but what if?
I look at him and wonder, do I even want kids with him? If I did have a child with him, would he abandon him or her in a dangerous situation because it was the ‘smart’ thing to do?
I’ve lost a lot of attraction to him. He accuses me of wanting to use him as a meatshield just because he’s a man, and that what he did was smart and not the machismo stupidity I ‘wanted’ that could have gotten us both killed. I didn’t want him to try to fight them… I just wanted him by my side. Which I guess is selfish, because it was a dangerous situation. I don’t feel safe around him anymore, which I used to. I’m even scared of the dark again, despite him lying in bed right next to me.
As I'm typing this, I kind of feel like Lex in Jurassic Park, after being ditched by the lawyer - "He left us! He left us!". Stupid thing to add, but I keep thinking of that scene!
I don’t know what to think. He doesn’t want to see a counsellor because, again, he says they wouldn’t understand the situation unless they’d experienced it themselves. We fortunately don’t have a wedding date set, so there’s no immediate pressure of marriage. Please help!
tl;dr: My fiancé ran away and left me to face two muggers by myself. He says it was the smart, logical thing to do, but I can’t get over how abandoned I felt in the moment and I’ve lost a lot of regard for him.
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[–]frioche 996 points997 points998 points  (23 children)
It doesn't matter who agrees or disagrees with the decision your fiancé made (though it sounds like he's afraid a counselor or his friends will challenge him) what matters is how you feel after the incident. How have you spoken to him about this? I'm curious if it would be useful to have a conversation that was less about the incident itself but more towards how differently you feel about him now, from losing your confidence to attraction for him.
I personally subscribe to the idea that it's not what happens, but how you respond. Regardless of whether what he did was logical or not, it should be more important to him that you can feel like you can rely on him again. If he doesn't want to admit that what he did has hurt you, I would honestly reevaluate the relationship.
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[–]thumb_of_justice 445 points446 points447 points  (6 children)
Fiancé asked me not to tell our friends exactly what happened, because he says they wouldn’t understand his actions unless they were there.
This really bothers me. What happened was a big, traumatic deal (my ex and I were mugged at machete point once, so I relate to your story a lot). And you aren't supposed to talk about it honestly with your friends? You have to struggle through this on your own? If his behavior was so logical and correct, he should own it.
I can see his point that it made sense for him to make a break and seek help, but I also feel your side, that they could have raped you or killed you so easily when you were alone. I wouldn't make a decision right now to break up with him, but this is a big thing and has a large effect on the relationship. Take some time to consider, but don't make a rush decision.
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[–]Spoonbills 1379 points1380 points1381 points  (44 children)
Fiancé asked me not to tell our friends exactly what happened, because he says they wouldn’t understand his actions unless they were there.
You were there and you don't get it either.
Neither do I. And he's belittling your feelings to avoid facing that he ditched you and left you in danger. Which, long-term, is a bigger issue for your marriage.
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[–]basadama 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
This will probably get buried, but on the whole gender roles thing: There's some merit to the guy defending the girl, even with just his presence. The fact is that a man is more often a physical threat. He's taller and stronger. Now, if a short guy was with a taller and buffer woman (mix and match genders however you like) I would say the same applies to her.
In a partnership, both parties bring different strengths to the table. I don't think it's sexist to note that in a partnership, if one party is much more adept and intimidating physically, they should be prepared to be the primary defender in a physical situation. They're less vulnerable to harm than their partner. Obviously not this one since they had no interest in fighting -- but of course, he should have stayed not only not to spook the muggers, but to deter anything worse with his presence.
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[–]ap1219 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
He accuses me of wanting to use him as a meatshield just because he’s a man
This really pissed me off. I am a small woman as well, and if this happened to me and anyone else (friend, family member, SO) I would not have abandoned them, whether or not I could have protected them.
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[–]rulenumber303 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Fiancé asked me not to tell our friends exactly what happened, because he says they wouldn’t understand his actions unless they were there.
Nah. He's not scared they won't understand, he's scared that maybe incidents from the past of him being none too brave will be raised.
Look I'm a big fan of not judging people who aren't combat trained over their failings in extreme crisis situations. And maybe running away was a good thing to do. But this ass won't go to counselling with you and he won't let you talk to friends. And you're the one who was all alone with two attackers and a knife at your ribs, common sense says your trauma is probably more intense than his and that if you feel the need to talk you should talk. But I'm sure he's happy with you talking to his Mom who agrees with him and supports him come what may, amirite? From his point of view you're supposed to stand steadfastly in your place at his side now. And he accuses you of wanting a meatshield, well fucking excuse me who wouldn't prefer to have other people around when there's a knife in their ribs, that's a natural reaction just as running away is. You wanted a meatshield? He wants a social shield, he wants you to go on hurting without enough support so his reputation won't suffer. Of course it grates. He's seeing everything his way and in every way he can has shut down you working though this.
I'd tell my best friend or find myself a counsellor, whether he likes it or not.
Edited to add: It boils down to, you were hurt, not physically but yeah you were hurt. When are you going to be taken care of? Right now he seems not willing to put himself out even a little to see you are taken care of. He's number one on his list, still, even now the deadly threat has gone. His behaviour right now is deeply selfish.
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[–]PizzaHuttDelivery 3 points4 points5 points  (1 child)
Every man knows that situations like these are pivotal in their future relationship with their fiance. Being a coward and leaving your fiance in danger is unmanly. He essentially ceased to exist in your life the moment he ran away.
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[–]drivebyjustin 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Right? This is nuts. I'm not leaving my wife with two muggers. Ever. End of story. I'm certainly no physical threat either. The guy is a pussy.
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[–]ashurdashur 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
Your fiance is a pussy. You know it (which is why you're losing attraction), he knows it (which is why he's justifying himself after the fact) and everyone else knows it (which is why he's asking you not to tell anyone the details).
You want a lifelong partner, not someone who abandons you in, literally, the most difficult moments.
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[–]Light105 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
On one hand, I don't think it's fair to blame people for how they react in those situations. Not everyone is a hero, and not everyone can control what they do when they're scared for their life.
However .... Those guys easily could have kidnapped and done horrible things to you. That's my biggest (irrational) fear in life. I don't know if I could stay with someone who left me so vulnerable. With your fiancé there, they likely would have done nothing to you. But alone....yikes. Bad stuff could have happened.
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[–]bthirsty 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Two, assumingly thuggish, guys walk up to rob me and my woman.. and I run? Leaving her there with two dudes with a weapon with who knows what other intentions? FUCK NO. He should have stayed there with you. There aren't any reasons why he should have cowered out like that, you are his woman, you should be his life, he should want to protect you by all means.
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[–]buttmcsaggington 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
What happens when someone one breaks into your house? He doesn't love you fro him before he drops you or worse
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[–]zWraith 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
Leave his ass like he left you. To me, that is WAY past unforgivable. He is clearly making up lame excuses to cover his own ass. What a fucking pansy.
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[–]Danrok 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
I would never abandon my partner. No one with a heart would. That's fucked up.
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[–]pammylorel 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
Fiancé asked me not to tell our friends exactly what happened, because he says they wouldn’t understand his actions unless they were there.
His mommy is happy he ran away and her baby boy didn't get hurt. He knows he's a chickenshit so he doesn't want anyone else to judge him besides mommy. I would not trust this person to have my back ever again. You could have been raped and stabbed. He would not have even known it was happening to you. I don't blame you for not being attracted to him. He's a mealy little worm.
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[–]axeltyler 3 points4 points5 points  (1 child)
He sounds like a coward. Glad you are both safe and well, that must have been awful. In all honesty I would feel the same if my partner ran off, I don't think they could protect me but at least be there for me
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[–]Dijon_Mastered 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
The issue isn't even that he ran away. We can call him a coward all we like, but we don't know how we'll react when fight/flight kicks in (seriously, instincts are shitty).
I'm going to assume that prior to this situation, he wasn't an asshole. I'm sure that, especially in the way gender roles are presented to us, he always thought that he'd defend his partner no matter what. Up until his instincts kicked in, that might've been the plan.
That said, you don't just say "I was right. Nothing bad could've happened." You apologize like all hell and try your best to make it up to them
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[–]sumplings 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
What if they had a vehicle nearby??
Your fiance is a coward to leave you with them alone and run. He knows that.
Fiancé asked me not to tell our friends exactly what happened, because he says they wouldn’t understand his actions unless they were there.
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[–]jrbrick003 2 points3 points4 points  (3 children)
...there are times in your life as a man... when you need to be one. Sometimes when bad shit happens you have to rush into harms way to protect the things you love.
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[–]skeletonclock 16 points17 points18 points  (0 children)
This has nothing to do with being a man and everything to do with being a decent human being.
Sometimes when bad shit happens you have to rush into harms way to protect the things you love.
This applies to everyone.
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[–]Ladidahhhhh 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Well, sure, his response was one of the "rational" (or instinctual) things to do. It wasn't necessarily wrong or harmful. But IMO, beyond the issue of what he actually did that night is the fact that you don't seem to get to have your own experience or story of what happened, and his discussion of events seem to have more to do with being Right or Correct than with understanding how frightened you must have been and saying how painful and scary it was for him too, to leave you behind in order to get help, even if he thought it was the best thing to do, or it was an instinctual survival reaction.
You're not supposed to tell your friends about what happened to you, because they might judge him. Your own support after being held at knifepoint and not having to lie about your own experience is less important than his image in front of these friends. You're not supposed to get a counselor, because, again, it might damage his "public" image, if only before the therapist. Your own experience of the robbery is supposed to be suppressed and negated in favor of his public image.
So all of that is definitely not going to make a person feel safe, secure and protected, even beyond the original event, because you're not being allowed your own experience and narrative and you're being told that it's less important than his image and reputation. That's a cause right there for a lack of regard that goes hand in hand with everything brought up by the robbery situation.
So aside from this robbery, does it seem like he cares about you as a person? Your views, experiences and existence as an individual? Or only as a reflection, mirror or representation/arm of himself?
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[–]houston_oilers 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
Don't ever go camping with him in bear country.
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[–]Budfox_92 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
I couldn't imagine leaving a friend, gf or family member alone with 2 robbers who were armed with a knife.
Even for a stranger I wouldn't leave them alone.
Your boyfriend showed his true colours so thats the person who he is and reading by your post it seems you don't like that about him.

More from r/relationships

Comments, continued...

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[–]oralthrowa 1193 points1194 points1195 points  (80 children)
I think the problem more than him running away, which could have been just a moment of panic reaction, is that hes trying to excuse himself by claiming it was the smarter choice. Yes it was the smarter choice - but only for himself. He actually put you in more of a risk by running away and aggravating your attackers. But in that moment I doubt he was thinking what was the smart move.
he knows what he did was not the right move, he knows people will judge him for it which is why he wants to hide these details claiming no one can understand him. Yet he still doesnt want to accept that just maybe what he did wasn't the best and that he should comfort you in ways other than disregarding your emotions.
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[–]Delores_Herbig 414 points415 points416 points  (38 children)
Yeah... I get that fear was an issue and maybe flight or fight kicked in. I doubt he seriously went through all the potential scenarios where him leaving and calling the cops was the "smart move" as he was running. I get why he might have done it, but clearly he knows it's debatable at best as to whether it was the right choice, which is why he doesn't want people to know.
That said, I don't know if I could be with someone who's first instinct wouldn't be to stay with me, instead leaving me with two bigger dudes with a weapon, all alone.
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[–]throwzzzitawaynow 116 points117 points118 points  (1 child)
That last sentence... she could have been taken somewhere alone with those guys... I'm glad their only motive was to steal her stuff...
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[–]Confection_Sponge 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
This was exactly my thought. What if they then overpowered her and took her in an alley, or threw her in their car?
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[–]thebondoftrust 490 points491 points492 points  (7 children)
Accusing her of wanting him as a "meatshield" when that's what he actually did to her is so out of order.
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[–]chemchick27 260 points261 points262 points  (0 children)
She was the one with a knife in her ribs, not him. She literally was his meatshield so he could run away.
If the genders had been reversed, I'd still say the person that left would be wrong. Stuff can be replaced, just hand it over. My life is worth more than a damn phone.
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[–]holyfuckbuckets 51 points52 points53 points  (4 children)
Yeah, it's not about her "using him as a meatshield". She probably didn't expect him to save her or anything, since she noted that they were at a clear disadvantage. This is really about knowing whether your partner would still be by your side when shit really hits the fan.
He chose to keep his phone and wallet instead of sticking by the woman he supposedly wants to be with through good times and bad. They're both lucky his running away didn't anger or embolden the robbers.
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[–]sisterfunkhaus 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
Embolden them as in they could have decided to rape or kidnap her now that they had her alone. I'm not sure I could forgive something like that.
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[–]shamesister 6 points7 points8 points  (1 child)
My husband runs towards people he thinks will hurt me. My brother does too actually.
I can't even imagine them bolting. What would even be the point of surviving if you lost the person you love the most?
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[–]Thanmandrathor 206 points207 points208 points  (23 children)
Also his options weren't just "run away" and "machismo bullshit while staying", there was also the option of staying and complying. Yes, maybe running is better than trying to vigilante the guys doing it, but that's not the only option open to you when you don't run.
To continue in the Jurassic Park themes, after the lawyer runs and Grant helps the kids, he stays and supports, he doesn't try and sucker punch the T Rex and do stupid shit.
I would have a very hard time getting over my fiancé ditching me to whatever fate. And I think it might be a dealbreaker, especially given his responses after he fact. I wouldn't expect heroics, but I would expect not to be abandoned.
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[–]Helpfulcloning 116 points117 points118 points  (14 children)
I personally think the smartest choice would have been staying and complying.
It's not smart to leave what is meant to be someone really important to you behind with a knife at her ribs. He didn't need to protect her or anything he could have just ensured she was safe.
Honestly, I am surprised they didn't end up hurting her in someway. They could have done anything because at that point she was 100% defenceless and her boyfriend had ran away.
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[–]sthetic 75 points76 points77 points  (2 children)
I feel like they probably felt sorry for her. Like, "shit, your man actually ran away? You've got worse problems than us. Give us your money and have a nice day..."
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[–]shamesister 24 points25 points26 points  (0 children)
Right? They likely just wanted money and that just shocked them and made them feel bad for her.
How embarrassing.
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[–]Helpfulcloning 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
That's what I mean. They took the girl for a reason and didn't hostage him. Not because gender roles really because well most people stay for a women rather than a man.
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[–]senator_mendoza 8 points9 points10 points  (2 children)
i'd also comply but there are plenty of stories of muggers who shoot/stab even after they get what they want.
and call me old fashioned but i really do see it as my job to be the meatshield. maybe if i was dating brienne of tarth or ronda rousey it'd be a different story but being the bigger/stronger one then i'm staying in front of my girlfriend and trying to control the situation. and as for what's "smart"... with me there then we at least have a fighting chance. without me there she has literally zero chance.
if a girl i care about was in this situation and her husband/boyfriend ran away i'd lose a TON of respect for him.
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[–]Helpfulcloning 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
To be honest it is not even if its a girl or a boy. My boyfriend is 6"+ and plays as a hooker in rugby. He is pretty big and lretty muscley. He could handle himself fine in a fight. But if someone had a knife to his ribs and could FATALY wound him.
Like fuck am I going to take a gamble and run away rather than giving my money or phone!
That's whar OP's boyfriend did. He gambled on her life to keep his phone.
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[–]elfgirl1317 24 points25 points26 points  (0 children)
I live in a city where muggings used to be quite frequent.
The safest thing, the police say, is to comply, but instead of handing the mugger the items, tell them you're placing them down, and toss them a few feet from you so when the mugger goes to pick it up, you can leave. (I think this is specifically for when muggers have guns)
In OP's situation, since the muggers had a knife to her, this is less applicable. But compliance is generally safer.
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[–]wickvit1 27 points28 points29 points  (0 children)
Exactly!
When he took flight, there's no way he was thinking "this is definitely the more logical option!" He just ran, then reasoned it out afterward. That's apparent in the fact that he doesn't want you to tell your friends about what he did.
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[–]DustyWanderer 219 points220 points221 points  (4 children)
He doesn’t want to see a counsellor because, again, he says they wouldn’t understand the situation unless they’d experienced it themselves
Fiancé asked me not to tell our friends exactly what happened, because he says they wouldn’t understand his actions unless they were there.
Yeah I'm noticing a trend here. Sounds like he doesnt want an outside perspective so he can stay safe in his own little bubble without anyone contradicting him.
As someone else said, he made a smarter choice for self preservation. Which when it comes to a panic situation people will do. It's how he's handling and acting after the fact that is frankly rude and messed up.
The fact is, you were there, you feel this way and those feelings are completely valid and should not be disregarded.
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[–]rowlanry 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
He is simply afraid of being mocked and shamed for running away. He most likely beats him self up everyday cause he knows what he did was "wrong". He doesn't want to talk about it cause men are told not to talk about there sad feelings so he is trying to internalize it to not look "weaker" then he thinks he does. He probably need more support then heckling.
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[–]kakapo999 673 points674 points675 points  (22 children)
I understand why you're so upset, OP. Your fiancé gambled with your life, essentially.
He gambled that running away would give the best positive outcome (him calling the cops and you getting away unharmed). But in making this gamble, he increased his own chances of survival while materially decreasing yours - and apparently, refuses to address this portion of his reasoning.
It's the "smart, logical" thing to do only in retrospect, because his gamble paid off. If he'd run off and you'd been gang-raped (your attackers taking advantage of the sudden uneven numbers) then no-one would be calling it smart and logical unless they were referring to his well-being only.
I don't know if it's a gamble I could forgive, myself.
As for him not wanting to be a "meat shield" - well, who does? But I'd point out that he was only able to escape because he was willing to use YOU as a meat shield while he ran off. You were the one being poked with a knife. You were the one primarily being targeted, and he was willing to use that to his advantage when it suited him.
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[–]attackjackalope 262 points263 points264 points  (9 children)
I am also willing to bet that "I made the smart choice" is an ex post facto justification of something that he did on instinct. To me that's almost the worst part. "Fight or flight" is not a joke, and it probably overwhelmed his rational decision making. Yes, he did something that saved his butt at the expense of OP's safety, and he did it probably without thinking. But rather than face up to that, apologize for how it made her feel but explain it in true terms, he's trying to make her feel irrational by arguing that actually running away was the logical choice. I think we can all mostly agree that that isn't necessarily so, and pretending it is seems like a red herring to avoid the fact that he knows now (maybe for the first time) that his instinctive reaction to danger is essentially "every man for himself."
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[–]notquitecockney 191 points192 points193 points  (4 children)
The other thing - his account that this worked out great completely ignores the emotional impact on OP. He's behaving as if only physical harm matters. She felt abandoned by him, in a dangerous situation. Because she was.
And his blythe "it all worked out great" completely ignores the harm he did to her, and to their relationship.
OP, how would you feel if he said "it was an instinctual reaction, I wasn't thinking, I'm really sorry"?
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[–]attackjackalope 71 points72 points73 points  (3 children)
This is a really excellent point. Trauma is real, and being held at knifepoint, alone, is going to have an impact on OP of some kind. I get that it's much easier for him to pretend like because they both wound up physically unharmed, it's fine and they should just move past it. But the psychological and emotional consequences of being left alone in physical (hell, maybe mortal) danger like that are extremely real, and OP is probably going to struggle with the aftermath of that to at least a small degree. Leaving her alone did harm her, just not in a way that required stitches.
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[–]superdubber 35 points36 points37 points  (1 child)
Yep - its okay to retrospectively consider your actions. I have a tangential story where, our house alarm went off at 3am and literally the first thing I remember is being downstairs shouting. It was a false alarm and I'd had a surge of adrenaline and just launched downstairs - not a smart move and it really made me think.
A few years later we got broken into for real and I was a lot more rational - barracaded the bedroom door, got the Police on the way and then (okay this bit may be controversial) went to investigate, though they'd already left empty handed.
Anyway, yes, flight or fight is very real. I've done both at different times and it's not always predictable. Plus, in this situations, sometimes you're rational and acting deliberately (whether sensibly or not) and other times your body just hits the auto pilot button and it's a blur.
What's not okay is ignoring your actions after the fact.
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[–]attackjackalope 14 points15 points16 points  (0 children)
It sounds like we have similar stress responses. I apparently inherited mine from my mom, who once chased a mugger for several blocks in high heels while screaming at him until a security guard at a nearby building registered what was happening and grabbed her to calm her down and snap her out of it. Responding like that can be just as maladaptive (if not more so) in dangerous situations, especially with muggings where the safest course is actually to behave exactly like OP did. You CAN learn to manage those stress responses, to an extent (my mom gave me a huge talking to about this after it emerged that I acted really stupidly in a particular situation), but it requires acknowledging them in the first place.
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[–]macimom 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
hmm-well he did seem to wait until the moment their attention and knife was focused on the OP so I'm not sure it 'overwhelmed his rationale decision making'-seems he waited until his chances to escape were maximized-thats pretty rationale thinking.
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[–]NekoNina 43 points44 points45 points  (1 child)
Bingo! I agree with your analysis. The meat shield comment he made struck me very much as him already having realized he'd done this to her and therefore quickly turning it back around on her (akin to cheaters accusing their partners of cheating).
OP's fiancé sounds pretty ashamed of his behavior, so he's desperately using anything he can to justify his actions in the aftermath. I imagine the guilt is probably getting to him. He knows deep down that he put her at terrible risk and it sounds like he's doing everything he can to bury that knowledge under a mountain of self-justification.
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[–]ShesBadNewsOP 84 points85 points86 points  (0 children)
This is the most clear-headed appraisal of the situation I have seen here.
History's written by the winners and all that.
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[–]greenbeansaregood 42 points43 points44 points  (0 children)
It's the logical choice only for him. It's not like he would be able to phone the police in time for them to come stop the mugging. Either way OP was going to get mugged. He could make the argument that it's better that only 1 person got mugged instead of 2. If I was in this situation with a partner, I'd rather we both get mugged and we were there for each other to hopefully make the experience very slightly less terrifying. My partner's feelings and safety would come before any material possessions. Also running might have spooked them into doing something they hadn't planned on doing. OP got very lucky.
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[–]ShelfLifeInc 245 points246 points247 points  (3 children)
I would possibly forgive my partner for giving into a flight response.
I would not be able to forgive them constantly trying to justify abandoning me in a dangerous situation as the "smart" thing to do.
He didn't have to go machismo or try to take them both on. He could have just stayed. His actions served him and him alone, and I don't blame you for feeling differently about him. If you can't blame him for his reaction to a situation, he can't blame you for yours.
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[–]chemchick27 52 points53 points54 points  (0 children)
My guess is that he absolutely feels ashamed and cowardly for what he did, so this is his defense mechanism. It's why he's not interested in seeing another therapist and possibly getting challenged on how he's acted after the fact. Running away was an unconscious choice, but how's he treating OP now is not.
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[–]rootless 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
So much this. I just posted something much longer trying to make just these points with less success. In the moment where he turned heel and ran, her partner wasn't guided by some Spock-like dispassionate logic, that was his instinct for self-preservation and it had nothing to do with the safety of his partner.
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[–]alter_reboot 37 points38 points39 points  (5 children)
He doesn't want you to tell your friends or a professional counselor because they wouldn't understand...that should tell you something. I think he knows he panicked and left you, and now he and his mother are tryng to convince you that he left you with two men holding a knife to your ribs in order to save you! How ridiculous does that sound?! How would he be rationalizing this to you if those men had chosen to rape you and/or kidnap you? Gender has nothing to do with it. You don't run away and leave your loved one in imminent danger. If I were you, I wouldn't feel safe around him either. He just showed you that he puts himself and his safety before you and yours.
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[–]KikiCanuck 34 points35 points36 points  (1 child)
Fiancé asked me not to tell our friends exactly what happened, because he says they wouldn’t understand his actions unless they were there.
He doesn’t want to see a counsellor because, again, he says they wouldn’t understand the situation unless they’d experienced it themselves.
The reason that he doesn't want you to tell anyone is not because they won't understand, but because they will, and they will judge him accordingly. It works out really well for him now that the only people who know the whole story are your moms, who will each take their kids' side, so there is no one besides your mom to quietly validate that you have the right to be upset.
If he truly will not attend therapy, and if he can't admit that your feelings are valid, I'm not sure how you can go go forward in the relationship. This is the kind of thing that could maybe be forgiven, but only if the other party acknowledges the issue and, y'know, seeks your forgiveness. If he can't do that, I would break up with him. If he tries to stop you by pointing out how "smart" he actually was, or go back to his idiotic "meatshield" argument (I wouldn't marry a woman who ran off and left me in that situation either), tell him that he'll never understand because he wasn't there.
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[–]valiyum 25 points26 points27 points  (2 children)
My best friend is a gay man and we once got ambushed on our way home from the club by some guys with a knife asking for money and our phones and he defended me completely, he actually punched the guy with the knife in the face and told me to run away (which I didn't because I was worried about him).
He is skinnier than me and never been in a fight in his life but he said that he just got the biggest shot of adrenaline and felt like he had to defend me because I was a woman and obviously weaker and there's no way he could have let anyone do anything to me.
If he ran away and left me in a situation like your boyfriend left you I would have been so scared and upset and he's not even my boyfriend!! I don't blame you at all for feeling the way you do, your boyfriend is obviously stronger than you are (unless you're really into fitness and he's not or something) and therefore you would expect him to defend you if something like this happens. Honestly if I was you I would not trust him anymore. Seems like he puts himself way before you.
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[–]DeathsDominion 21 points22 points23 points  (9 children)
So a couple of things here. If he were all that confident that what he did was the right thing, he wouldn't care if you told all your friends now would he?
I personally don't expect my man to be a meat shield and protect me. I flat know in a fight, my man is not the one to protect me. He has absolutely shitty reflexes, no hand eye coordination and I carry a gun and he doesn't. I've flat fucking told him that if we ever get into this exact same situation he needs to get the fuck behind me and run if he can (he'd get behind me, probably wouldn't run) because I DON'T want him getting in the way of my aim and fucking up my ability to defend myself because he'd fucking suck at it and end up getting us both killed.
So I have ZERO expectations of a man being the "meat shield" so understand where I am coming from when I say your fiance abandoned you, and knows it, otherwise he wouldn't care who knew what he did. He left you being held at knife point. He abandoned you to your fate.
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[–]somefnords 99 points100 points101 points  (2 children)
The elephant in the room is that you wouldn't expect a person in this situation to behave rationally. You would expect them to behave instinctively.
It is often said that in extreme situations, you do not rise to the level of your hopes but fall to the level of your training. It is more likely than not that your bf acted on fight-or-flight. It is far less likely that he ran a bunch of scenarios in his head and decided that your safety would increase if he ran.
I doubt you will ever know what was really in his head in the moment. Maybe when he saw the guy make a move with the knife, he thought he had to get a call to 911 no matter what. Maybe he thought he was going to die and decided to cut his losses.
What I know, though, is that if this happened to me with my gf, I would feel intense guilt. I would not rationalize my behavior, even if I believed it was rational. I would suspect that your mother is right. It takes a certain narcissism and lack of empathy to rationalize in this situation.
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[–]lamamaloca 34 points35 points36 points  (0 children)
Rationalizing behavior is a way of dealing with guilt, though.
I think OP should insist on counseling. Her bf needs to actually listen to her emotions. And probably be honest about his, too.
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[–]mrbetter 34 points35 points36 points  (1 child)
he doesn't want you telling friends because hes embarrassed, which means he knows what he did wasn't right. of course if you told them they'd be like wtf you ran away and left your fiancee?
hell even imagining him doing this is crazy.. i mean you're about to marry this dude. what would the story look like if you ended up getting stabbed while he ran away? or the fact that he left you there with two men with a knife, what else could have happened while he ran away? even thinking about this entire situation is all kinds of wtf
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[–]RagingFuckalot 211 points212 points213 points  (115 children)
It wasn't the "smart, logical" thing to do so he should stop using that excuse.
However, in a stressful situation, anyone can react in any way without having much control over it. Some people would have fought back, some would have tried negotiating, some like you just waited it out and tried to play it safe and some like your boyfriend would run.
You could both do with seeing a counsellor, what you went through was traumatising.
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[–]abandonedfiancee[S] 29 points30 points31 points  (110 children)
It wasn't the "smart, logical" thing to do so he should stop using that excuse.
How isn't it, though? I feel guilty because honestly, I agree that it was the smart move - but I can't help feeling deserted.
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[–]Una1986 79 points80 points81 points  (3 children)
It doesn't seem like the smart decision to me to run away while an attacker is holding a knife to your partners ribs. The attacker could have easily stabbed you out of anger. You could've been raped or killed in 10 minutes. At least with two of you there you have a better shot at defending yourself. He's trying to convince you that he ran away for your safety but the reality is that he ran away for his own safety, not yours. He doesn't want you to tell people because he knows that they will see the reality of the situation and likely judge him. Plus it's easier to convince you that he did the "smart" thing when there is no one else to say otherwise.
I believe that I (F) would stay with my partner (M) but the truth is that none of us know what we'd do until we were in that situation. Our urge for self preservation is strong and it's very likely he didn't think but just reacted to protect himself without really thinking of you at all. He doesn't want to admit to you or himself why he ran because he doesn't want to feel or be seen as cowardly.
I have to say that this would be a deal breaker for me. I could not marry a man who ran and left me with two armed attackers. For better or worse includes muggings. If you want to make this work I think counseling is a must. I would tell your fiance how you are feeling about him now but that you want to try and salvage the relationship and if he'd like to save it too he needs to attend counseling with you.
It is very important that you do not lie and tell another narrative of the attack, other than what actually happened to you. You suffered a trauma, made that much worse by being abandoned by your partner. Being forced to lie and pretend it was something else will only make it harder for you to process and move past it. It's not healthy for you. You don't have to shout it from the rooftops but don't be pressured to conceal it. Your BF chose to do what was best for him in that moment. Now you need to do whats best for you and share your story. Your BF made his choice and he has to live with the consequences of that choice. Fortunately the consequences aren't much, much worse like you being seriously injured or dead
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[–]hyperbolic_pancakes 122 points123 points124 points  (4 children)
He's only saying it's "smart" NOW because it turned out ok. It's like making a random bet on the horse whose name you like best and then saying it was "smart" when you win. It was LUCK. Could have turned out a hundred different ways. And now he's trying to say he planned it that way which is bullshit.
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[–]Strangeandweird 142 points143 points144 points  (0 children)
It wasn't the smartest move by a mile. You do not negotiate or run or create panic. Ask any law enforcement if you want to clarify what the best move was. You give them your things calmly. That's the smart thing. What if the mugger had panicked too and stabbed you without even wanting to? What he did was dumb so he needs to stop justifying himself. If you haven't discussed this please find a sympathetic friend to discuss this with. Internalising is only going to kill your relationship faster.
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[–]OrionRed 143 points144 points145 points  (11 children)
It all depends how it would have ended. If they were planning on killing you, perhaps it was the smart move if he prevented it. Or maybe him leaving would make it easier to kidnap/rape/kill you. Nothing he could have done is the smart move because he had no idea of how it would play out. What he did was his knee jerk reaction.
I'm not saying what he did was wrong. It was his panic reaction. But what he is wrong in doing is disregarding you're feelings by insisting he made the right move. He didn't. He made A move. He got lucky.
You are perfectly reasonable for feeling how you feel. I would feel the same. He needs to acknowledge that you no longer feel safe around him and know your feelings are justified. If you can understand why he ran away, he needs to understand your reaction to this.
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[–]crashfrog 30 points31 points32 points  (7 children)
He's saying it's smart because he's trying to take credit for the outcome. But that's a just-so story. By abandoning the field, he lost any ability to meaningfully affect the outcome - because he wasn't there to affect it. I mean, great, he called the police. So your body would only be a little bit colder when they arrived ten minutes later.
I don't know how your fiance can look you in the eye. There's nothing sexist or old-fashioned about expecting people not to demonstrate rank cowardice.
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[–]CocoaTee[🍰] 84 points85 points86 points  (6 children)
Smart move? Girl, he's making you do mental gymnastics. Another set of asshole would think cool, the dude is gone? Time to get her in our van. Or the police is coming? If I stab her, they have to administer first aid before asking questions and we'd have longer to get away. There are 10000000 ways to spin this and you are believing your bfs because he convinced you that running away by himself and calling the cops, is smarter. It only worked out because you were lucky it worked out, because with no other witnesses and police coming, they could of easily just taken you in a car and you'd be raped or dead.
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[–]Ctrl-Alt--Delete 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
and you'd be raped or dead.
Or both! :(
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[–]Bluedevil2019 24 points25 points26 points  (0 children)
The smart thing to do is always to de escalate the situation, talk calmly, and hand over valuables. Fast movements like running off can startle and confuse stupid criminals. What if they had responded by panicking and hustling you into a car? Your SO wasn't smart, he was lucky.
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[–]kinkydiver 202 points203 points204 points  (9 children)
No, the smart move would have been to give the attackers your shit, memorize their faces, then later file a police report - all the while staying with you and be able to put up a fight in case they were to rape you.
But no, he ran like a little bitch, putting you in danger, and he knows it.
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[–]realitystrive 11 points12 points13 points  (0 children)
Or at least pull her with him. Even if it dislocated her arm.
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[–]AskamilliusReddiquis 56 points57 points58 points  (5 children)
I thought they were going to try to rape her once he ran away!!
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[–]myassholealt 59 points60 points61 points  (3 children)
Could you imagine if they did rape her, which thank god didn't happen. First it was two people they could rob, then the bigger physical threat ran away, leaving the woman alone, making it much easier in case they had ideas of turning things violent. It was the right thing for his own safety, which means he prioritizes his own safety above his soon to be wife and mother of his kids. And in the future if it was ever her life or his, he'd choose his. People are allowed to make that choice, but I personally would want to protect my partner rather than sacrifice them so I can survive.
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[–]woodycanuck 8 points9 points10 points  (2 children)
then the bigger physical threat ran away
This is an important point that you should think through. The robbers are now much less worried about violence and can focus on getting the goods and getting away before he comes back with cops or a weapon.
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[–]smilesforall 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
I think the problem there is they didn't know what "the goods" were at the moment. Lucky for the OP, the goods were just her phone/money/jewelry, but it really isn't a stretch that her body (raping her) could have been lumped into that. Her fiancé didn't know what they were after when he ran away, and by doing so, opened her up to a much higher likelihood of being raped, on top of everything else.
Higher in the thread someone mentioned that he used her as a meatshield, and I don't think that is inaccurate.
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[–]woodycanuck 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Well, you won't come out and say it, but I take it you disagree with my point that the thieves would understand that the police are probably coming soon and their priority will be to get away quickly? I think that's a pretty difficult case to make, do you have some reasoning behind it?
It seems a pretty weird, convoluted thought process for a thief to take, is all. I mean, there's 2 of them and they have weapons. If rape is on their minds, they can stab the guy, knock him out or whatever. We've already agreed compliance is the best path, so... how are we stopping the rape by staying, exactly?
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[–]woodycanuck 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Because you aren't putting yourself in their shoes. There is now someone nearby who knows where they are and what they're doing. You are NOT going to stick around longer that needed. They want valuables and they want to get away.
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[–]Whackles -19 points-18 points-17 points  (0 children)
I wonder if you would go with 'ran like a little bitch' if the girl had run away in this case.
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[–]MrGNorrell -21 points-20 points-19 points  (0 children)
to put up a fight in case they were to rape you.
Yay, let's ALL GET FUCKING STABBED!
God dammit people. Fucking seriously?
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[–]Prezbo123 15 points16 points17 points  (0 children)
It wasn't smart because you are LUCKY you weren't raped. Helluva gamble there.
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[–]Tamazin_ 14 points15 points16 points  (0 children)
Its bad in the way that one of them could've had a gun and seeing your fiance running might've pulled the gun and shot him (and then you) in the back.
Best way would be to slowly give them what they wanted and not do any quick actions.
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[–]LAudre41 41 points42 points43 points  (3 children)
He had absolutely no way of knowing what they were going to do. They could have attacked you! In which case him running away would have fucked you. If he sincerely believed he was in the right he wouldn't mind you telling people about ir
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[–]AkemiDawn 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
If he sincerely believed he was in the right, he wouldn't be so defensive and dismissive of her feelings now either. To consider that he made the wrong choice would mean having to process a lot of guilt, and he's doing everything possible to avoid that. In other words, he's protecting himself emotionally at the expense of his fiancée's feelings just like he protected himself at her expense during the mugging. I don't think the way he acted during the mugging is as much of a problem for the relationship as the way he's acting now. If you can't be honest with yourself and face up to your shortcomings, you can't be a good partner.
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[–]KrytenKoro 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
If he sincerely believed he was in the right, he wouldn't be so defensive and dismissive of her feelings now either.
Or, the way she's bringing it up implies she thinks he's a coward, and he has reason to believe that if she brings it up to her friends (like she did with the mom), they will also treat him as a coward.
He did the thing that experts recommend doing, and her family (and soon, friends) are already treating him as trash for it.
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[–]IllNeverGetAway 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
He had absolutely no way of knowing what they were going to do.
So any decision is basically the same. Staying could have fucked them too. Leaving could have fucked them. There's basically no difference once you start playing 'what if' games here.
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[–]877-386-891 175 points176 points177 points  (27 children)
Would you still think it was smart or logical if you had been abducted and raped? He's a coward, plain and simple. That's just how he is and there's nothing to do for it.
The thing that raises flags for me is that he is unwilling to see a counselor or work with you with this. As a your partner he should be there to help you, and clearly you need help with this. He's sliding past the issue, offering excuses, and abandoning you in a way that isn't physical. That's what I'd be thinking about. When the going gets tough, will he truly be there for you?
Just to clarify, I'm not saying he should have fought them. But he deserted you and that's a problem.
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[–]TaylorGrace_ -59 points-58 points-57 points  (9 children)
He didn't completely abandon her. He called for help and found her. It's not like he ran home crying. I don't think he's a coward.
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[–]877-386-891 96 points97 points98 points  (5 children)
It's not exactly that one act that defines him as being one imo. Look at the rest. He doesn't want to go to counseling, wants to hide the actions from his friends, and is trying to throw up a smokescreen of excuses to defend his actions. Essentially I see that as him trying his best to sweep everything under the rug or make her forget it. There's probably more examples throughout their relationship that aren't listed here. It's luck and chance that this didn't turn into a blood filled crime.
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[–]thumb_of_justice 29 points30 points31 points  (0 children)
Yeah, it's really the other stuff that makes me feel less forgiving about running away. He should own his actions and be willing to go to counseling.
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[–]KrytenKoro -4 points-3 points-2 points  (3 children)
Essentially I see that as him trying his best to sweep everything under the rug or make her forget it.
Because she already told her mom and her mom is already treating him like shit, as well as OP treating him like he is maybe a coward for it.
He doesn't see telling other people who think like OP being a positive thing.
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[–]Meloetta 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
Why am I not surprised that, in the aftermath as well, he's considering what a "positive thing" is only in the context of what's good for him, completely ignoring the person whose life was actually in danger?
This makes him look so much worse, even as you valiantly try to defend him. She goes through a traumatic experience of literally having a deadly weapon held to her body while her boyfriend leaves. And you're saying that it makes sense that he doesn't want her to talk about it with anyone because it's not a "positive thing" for him. What about her? Even in the aftermath you're implying he doesn't give a single shit about taking care of her. What a coward!
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[–]KrytenKoro 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
he's considering what a "positive thing" is only in the context of what's good for him
I found out that fiancé had run about a block away, calling emergency services as he ran.
That he wanted to be alive and able to help in case something happened to me. He also says that by running away, the thieves didn’t want to hang around any longer than necessary (which is true), which might have saved me
Not sure where you're getting that his excuses are in the context of what's good for him -- OP reports that immediately after the mugging, he was telling her he did this to ensure that he would get help for her, and give the muggers a reason to hightail it as quickly as possible.
Whether he interpreted how the muggers would react in this situation correctly or not (and it seems he very much did), his reasons given were to ensure her safety.
And you're saying that it makes sense that he doesn't want her to talk about it with anyone because it's not a "positive thing" for him.
He had no problem with her talking about it with their parents, from what the OP reports. When she told her mom and her mom began thinking of him as a coward is when he asked her to not talk about the exact details with friends, while still being able to talk about the event in general.
It is not clear from OP's post whether she's made it clear that her questions are about her own emotional wellbeing instead of calling him a coward -- from his responses, he seems to be interpreting them as him being called a coward, and is getting defensive. That's about the most leniency I'm willing to extend him, though.
I do agree that he's wrong to be against counseling -- their opinion of you doesn't matter, their job is to help you become healthy. If she hasn't already, she needs to clarify that she is having trouble trusting him and needs to go to counseling to be able to go on with their relationship. If he's unwilling to do that, well, regardless of whether anyone did anything wrong, they're incompatible.
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[–]Meloetta 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
I was referring directly back to your comment, where you said cutting her off from her support system so he doesn't get people angry at him is "a positive thing". Because "positive" only applies to him, apparently. Nevermind how that might harm her mentally to only have him to process this with, someone who's already defensive and mean to her about her experience and who is central to her fear. It's a "positive thing" because less people are mad at him, according to you. If he honestly thinks that way, then he really cares less about her well-being than he does about people being mad at him and that's terrible.
This is why your defense of him is making him look worse.
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[–]oralthrowa 46 points47 points48 points  (0 children)
It took them 15 minutes to get there. by then she could have been abducted/raped or murdered. By running away the potential that he could have pissed them off/ aggravated them to hurt his fiance was created.
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[–][deleted]  (1 child)
[removed]
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    [–]Melzar_the_Mad -42 points-41 points-40 points  (10 children)
    If their plan was to abduct or rape her then to accomplish that they would have to remove her BF. Leaving no witnesses or anyone to call for help.
    Fleeing seems cowardly but it guarantees one person can call for assistance and save the other.
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    [–]ProfessorShameless 47 points48 points49 points  (0 children)
    Situations like these sometimes turn into rapes of opportunity. Not that the plan was to rape someone, but the muggers have a person or two captive, with no one able or willing to fight back.
    The guy runs off, spook the muggers. If they had a car nearby or knew a place to lay low, they could have easily grabbed to girl. There are a ton of examples you can look up of this exact situation.
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    [–]877-386-891 61 points62 points63 points  (8 children)
    He removed himself from the situation. So pretty much did their work for them. Two men would have had no issues subduing her and doing whatever they pleased. If they had a vehicle nearby, what would there have been to save?
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    [–]Drigr comment score below threshold-25 points-24 points-23 points  (7 children)
    It also wouldn't have been hard for them to decide he's in the way and kill him before kidnapping her.
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    [–]877-386-891 17 points18 points19 points  (3 children)
    Still would have probably been a 2v2 fight with is considerably different than just one. I couldn't imagine her standing back and letting him die as he was obviously prepared to do for her.
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    [–]Drigr -16 points-15 points-14 points  (2 children)
    She already froze up, what makes you so confident she would fight them?
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    [–]877-386-891 13 points14 points15 points  (1 child)
    It's clear that you think her incapable. We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
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    [–]Drigr comment score below threshold-11 points-10 points-9 points  (0 children)
    You deciding she's capable is just as arbitrary.
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    [–]Voxlashi 9 points10 points11 points  (1 child)
    Rapists usually don't murder the victim though, so it's quite a leap to assume they would murder another witness because he was "in the way".
    Besides, abduction and rape was not the only possible outcome of this flight. They could have groped her or something, which would only have taken a second, yet caused OP significant additional trauma.
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    [–]Meloetta 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    Or just stabbed her, assuming he would be distracted enough taking care of his injured girlfriend to chase them down before they left. If that had happened and he didn't find her for 10 minutes...
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    [–]PinkysAvenger 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
    You watch way too much television
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    [–][deleted] -66 points-65 points-64 points  (5 children)
    its not a man's duty to protect or face danger for a woman. this is 2016 not 1800 ok?
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    [–]pagodi 49 points50 points51 points  (2 children)
    I'd be upset about my partner abandoning me in a crisis, whether they were a man or a woman.
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    [–]punfree 26 points27 points28 points  (0 children)
    Hell, even if he hadn't abandoned her, and only was doing the rest: rejecting counseling, wanting her not to talk about it with friends who could be a source of support...I'd still be questioning whether he's a good partner.
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    [–]KrytenKoro -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
    I'd be upset about my partner going down with the ship instead of surviving to care for our friends and family. There's no glory in fighting a losing battle just for the sake of it, and experts absolutely recommend trying to get away and get police assistance ASAP.
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    [–]877-386-891 23 points24 points25 points  (0 children)
    Looks like most of my meaning slid past.
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    [–]arbalete 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    It's both partner's duty to protect each other, sex has nothing to do with it.
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    [–]backseat_adventurer 32 points33 points34 points  (0 children)
    It wasn't the smart thing to do at all.
    As many people have said, running like that could have killed you. In moments of high stress where violence is very likely, defiance can kill. Running (non-compliance with the muggers' desires) could have escalated things massively. Who was the most likely target when your fiance ran away? You. As another poster pointed out, your husband was perfectly fine using you as a meatshield.
    Most importantly, you cannot count on police response times to stop a crime in progress. As you found out, a robbery can happen in moments and a stabbing or shooting in much less. A rape? Well, that doesn't take all that long either and they could have threatened you into going elsewhere with him.
    You are one lucky woman.
    OP, your fiance left you with an armed thugs who could have killed you... because of what he did. Leaving a loved one in danger? Unconscionable. That your fiance shows cowardice and refuses responsibility or to even apologize? No wonder you're struggling to trust him. That he's gaslighting you into believing his ridiculous lie about 'doing it for you'? Unforgivable.
    I know reddit can be hasty in saying break up but how can you come back from this? The very foundation of trust, the instinctive belief he will have your back, is shattered.
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    [–]MrsValentine 18 points19 points20 points  (0 children)
    Why do you think it was the smart move? They could have easily raped you while he was gone. Two armed men against one lone woman. Do you think it was smart because he was calling the police? Who wouldn't arrive for another 10/15 minutes anyway? And even if they had managed an extraordinary response time, would it have been a smart move to put you in the middle of a group of armed cops and a group of armed muggers? You could have been accidentally shot or stabbed or anything. It wasn't a smart move.
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    [–]AnthieaTyrell 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
    It wasn't the smartest move AT ALL. The smart move would be to give into their demands and file a police report after. You never antagonize the aggressors. Even IF they didn't want to kill you, rape you, or kidnap you, him suddenly running away could have spooked the one holding the knife to your ribs and one jump later you could have been stabbed.
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    [–]Salt-Pile 18 points19 points20 points  (2 children)
    It's not the smart thing because he's not a mind reader and people are unpredictable.
    There are so many ways that scenario could have played out. For example if one of your attackers was a violent schizophrenic (we can't tell this by looking at someone) who decided to just start knifing you. Essentially, having someone there to help you defend yourself is much better in that kind of scenario.
    I agree with the many people in here who don't believe that he weighed up choices before reacting. The fact he's simultaneously trying to present it that way while also trying to hide it from people sort of reinforces this.
    To me this is the most problematic part - he's trying to re-write what happened and he's trying to block you from talking about your experience and processing it in the way you normally would.
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    [–]KrytenKoro -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
    Essentially, having someone there to help you defend yourself is much better in that kind of scenario.
    BF was unarmed.
    Life is not an action movie.
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    [–]IllNeverGetAway 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    Once you start playing 'what if' then it doesn't matter what he does. The same what if still applies.
    Essentially, having someone there to help you defend yourself is much better in that kind of scenario.
    Ridiculous. The knife was already against her body. She was dead if they decided to use it whether he's there or not. He couldn't defend her at all in that situation. There's nothing he could have done.
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    [–]sukinsyn 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
    As someone above mentioned, he's only saying it was the "smart move" because it paid off. Your boyfriend could have been shot in the back, or you could have been stabbed/raped/etc, and then no one could possibly argue "smartest move."
    Oh, and let's be clear: he didn't make the "smartest move" out of concern for you. His running away was a natural reaction, so saying "smartest move" like it was intentional is some bullshit. You know what is intentional? How you treat your SO after a traumatizing experience, and he is treating you like shit.
    Tell him you're going to counseling, with or without him. And why shouldn't you tell your friends? Friends are a support system in times of need. He's robbed you of any support system, AND he's acting like your feelings aren't justified.
    The fact that you feel guilty just proves that his dickish behavior is working.
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    [–]RagingFuckalot 3 points4 points5 points  (1 child)
    There is safety in numbers. Both of you would have been safer staying together the whole time. Also, he is the physically greater one of the two of you. He would of had a better chance at fighting back if it came to that.
    The only way you can find the comfort you're seeking is if he accepts that while he didn't do anything wrong, it certainly wasn't the smartest or safest thing to do.
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    [–]KrytenKoro 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    He would of had a better chance at fighting back if it came to that.
    They had a knife. If BF isn't trained in disarming opponents, size means jackshit.
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    [–]Thanmandrathor 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
    Maybe you can argue it's the smart move if you're by yourself, but I feel with two people it changes the dynamic.
    Now it seems to have become something more akin to not needing to be able to outrun the predator, just being able to be faster than the person next to you so it becomes their problem.
    It's the part where he's clinging to this logical explanation and not just apologizing for it hurting you that makes it so much worse to me.
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    [–]Zap_Dannigan 11 points12 points13 points  (1 child)
    It wasn't the smart move. It ONLY turned out ok because your muggers were just that...muggers. If they wanted to stab you, kill you or rape you, NOTHING he did would have prevented that.
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    [–]KrytenKoro 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
    because your muggers were just that...muggers
    ...right, and muggers rarely transition into the others. If they were planning on abducting her, they wouldn't have left BF alive in the first place. Killing him would be their first step, and loot the body afterward, not ask him to hand shit over and risk him carrying a gun.
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    [–]Cardboardkitty 6 points7 points8 points  (1 child)
    Fuck the 'smart thing' - who cares? I don't want a partner who always did the smart thing, I want one who does the right thing. The right thing is not leaving your partner/friend/whoever in danger, and increasing that danger even further by leaving.
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    [–]KrytenKoro 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    The right thing is not leaving your partner/friend/whoever in danger, and increasing that danger even further by leaving.
    ...the right thing is doing what gives the best chance for survival.
    Which experts say is getting away and calling emergency services.
    Not the machismo thing.
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    [–]macimom 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
    It was smart for him-but not smart for you. he had literally ZERO idea how they would react. They may have been enraged he got away and stabbed you-they may sexually assaulted you bc you were now alone and there were no witnesses. He literally took a gamble on your safety.
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    [–]WesternGate 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    It's not smart at all because running and escaping would upset and anger the attackers, who are now left with only one person (the smaller, more vulnerable person!) to attack. Further, he left you, a woman, alone with male assailants, increasing the chance of sexual assault or rape. His "smart" defense is so vehement because he knows he did a shameful thing when he left you to face those men to do whatever they may have wanted to do to you alone. I would leave a man who I know would abandon me to save himself. You literally know for certain that you cannot trust him to, forget even protecting, even just to stand at your side.
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    [–]mothpiss 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    It wasn't smart at all, for all he knew, he just did three things 1. Made the muggers very mad by not handing over his stuff 2. Left you alone to deal with the consequences of him pissing them off. What he did very easily could have escalated the situation, increasing the odds you were hurt. Thank god they didn't punish you for his actions. I can sympathize to an extent cos I don't know how I'd react and fight or flight and all that, but what he did was dangerous, and his post-hoc explanation is just plain wrong.
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    [–]LemonBomb 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    It only seems like the smart move because you were not physically harmed. They could have killed you. There is no telling how they could have reacted in any number of ways. He was very obviously only looking out for himself. You're allowed to feel hurt and abandoned because you were.
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    [–]justalittlewave 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    Has he ever told you not to go somewhere alone, not wanted you walking home alone at night, or to your car alone, or been wary of you doing anything alone for general safety reasons?
    There is safety in numbers, ESPECIALLY for women. He lessened your safety and created a panic situation in the process.
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    [–]arabbel 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    Look, he is playing it off as the smart move, but the fact of the matter is that in the moment, I very much doubt he ran because he thought it was the smart move. He ran because he was scared, it ended up working out for him, and now he's trying to play it off as though he calmly and rationally made that choice. He didn't. In the moment he feared most for himself and ran off out of fear.
    Also, leaving your tiny fiancee alone with two men with a knife in her ribs really doesn't sound that smart. He left you in a position where you could have been very easily kidnapped or raped, and by the time he came back with police you could have been long gone. With him there it was way less likely that you'd be kidnapped or raped.
    Also, he is accusing you of wanting to use him as a meatshield, when he literally used you as a meatshield! He was able to run off because you were his shield. He doesn't want you to tell his friends because he knows full well how what he did looks. He's trying to rewrite history so that his and his mommy's version of things are all he has to think about.
    Stop letting him get away with this! His excuse that "they weren't there so they won't understand" is just a way of diminishing your feelings. Because you were there, and you don't understand. Apparently your way of viewing it doesn't matter. His mom, who wasn't there, her opinion matters to him more than yours. If he truly believed "wasn't there, so their opinion doesn't count" then he'd be disregarding his mom's view as well. He doesn't want people to know what he did because he is ashamed of it, and he's ashamed because he knows he left you there because he was more scared for himself.
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    [–]edwinamonsoon 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    Here's the thing, I doubt he was being coldly logical in the moment. Maybe it seems 'smart' and 'logical' in his Monday morning quarterbacking, but the extremely likely reality is that he was acting on deeply ingrained instinct. There was no higher thinking or calculation there. Fight, flight, or fawn, these are seriously strong and deep-seated reactions. And most people do not actually know how they will react when faced with this kind of danger. We all like to think we know what we'd do, but we oftentimes don't. We're not thinking with our higher brains in these kind of circumstances. And that is entirely human, and forgivable.
    What is not forgivable is that he is trying to paper over this unpleasant reality of his own character and leaving you out in the cold to do it. This happened to both of you, it's your story as much as his, and you need to be able to tell it honestly. You need to be able to process and deal with your feelings about what actually happened, not the narrative that paints him in the best light, the actual facts. And he should be there to support you when you do.
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    [–]princesspea89 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    It's not the "smart, logical" thing because police recommends that you stay calm and hand over everything. They don't tell you to fight back or to try to run away, especially in a situation like yours, where he left and they still had you.
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    [–][deleted]  (3 children)
    [deleted]
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      [–]woodycanuck -1 points0 points1 point  (2 children)
      The more I think about it, the more I agree with the BF here. If you fight back, that's the worst thing you can do. Somebody is gonna get hurt. If you run, yes, your woman will feel abandoned and vulnerable, but if you think about it, she might be safer.
      1. The bad guys will know that you're getting the police or maybe a weapon. They're going to want to get out of there asap.
      2. When there are 2 victims, one of them male, that's probably a lot more stressful for them. They have to keep eyes on both of you, he might have a weapon, he is more likely to attack them, etc. With him gone, they are more able to just focus on getting the valuables and getting away.
      I don't know if I would be able to do this in this situation, but I actually think it's a pretty smart thing to do!
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      [–]PokethePoohBear 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
      You don't know those thieves. You wouldn't know in that moment if they would just want to get away as soon as possible.
      Once he ran and left the thieves had an easier option of kidnap/rape. Going by the description OP is a petite gal. It would have been easy enough for them. A lot can happen even if the police found them within 15 min. Luckily that didn't happen.
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      [–]woodycanuck 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      Nobody knows those thieves. I'm making a reasonable guess that if they were interested in rape or kidnapping, they would have chosen a small women who was already alone. They seem way more like petty thugs who want cash and valuables with minimal risks.
      It's also reasonable that the thieves would understand that when you're committing a robbery and someone escapes the scene, the clock is ticking and either the police or violence is headed your way.
      Look, I'm NOT claiming to know the guy's motives. In all likelihood it WAS a panic move. I'm just kind of interested in the idea that it might actually be the move with the best outlook for both people. I think it's very possible.
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      [–]ThrowawayYesIAm 59 points60 points61 points  (1 child)
      I am so sorry.
      I had something similar to this happen to me when I was in Rome. My partner and I were mugged by several gypsies. And he just left me there.
      I remember feeling these hands grope me, slipping under my clothes to search for hidden pockets, as I watched my partner's back getting smaller in the distance. And I heard him say a very half-hearted "Come on. Leave her alone." But he just left me there.
      I panicked (my grandfather once left me to be raped when I was a child, so being left behind brings out something really primal in me) and broke or sprained the lead gypsy's arm. When they were seeing to her, I broke away and ran to catch up to my partner.
      "I was just about to go back for you," he told me when I caught up. And I remember biting back the tears, trying so fucking hard not to shake or throw up. "But it's not like you had any money or anything on you, so they would let you go once they figured it out."
      Never could look at him the same way again. I still cared about him. A lot. But I fell out of love. After that, he didn't seem to be my partner anymore. I'd wake up sometimes because of the house settling in the night and it'd be like I was a little girl again, where every stray sound was a danger. Where every stranger was a threat to me.
      So when you talk about this. Man. Really. I know what you're talking about. I know the heartache of trying to balance your emotionality and logic. Trying so hard to be fair and being kind of embarrassed of how much being left behind has shaken you up. Knowing that you never wanted him to be hurt, but that you can't quite understand how he could just leave.
      It took me about a year to leave him. Great guy otherwise. Loved him a lot. But my sense of safety with him vanished and once it was gone, the relationship died with it. I think a part of me felt I always had to keep myself on guard around him now. Because I knew that if the shit hit the fan again, we wouldn't function as a team -- it'd be every man for himself.
      In retrospect, what I wish I had done was been more forthright with my ex. I wish I had jumped into personal therapy because, straight up, I seriously needed to work out those feelings of being abandoned and betrayed.
      I wish I hadn't tortured myself for so long by forcing myself to stay when I had already lost my attachment to him. I wish I had given myself permission to cry rather than pretend my feelings were invalid.
      He left you. And that sucks. It's understandable, but that doesn't mean that it didn't have repercussions. It doesn't mean that your relationship didn't change, you know? Your sense of safety with him has been compromised as well as your sense of trust.
      I don't know if it can be fixed, but I do know that both of you have to be fully on board in order to do so. Good luck. I'm really sorry this happened.
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      [–]bonaventure85 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      Jeez, that's disturbing. I didn't know they would go that far... I have heard enough stories of them harassing tourists but to assault you like that is just unsettling. Sorry you went through that.
      I have to ask, were you guys significantly outnumbered? I couldn't imagine abandoning my girlfriend to a pack of people like that...
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      [–]mypurplefriend 11 points12 points13 points  (0 children)
      I think I get what you're feeling. His actions probably make sense to him and they had a good outcome so he doesn't feel the need to question them (and he probably feels like he did take control) whereas you keep going through the what-ifs.
      I got mugged once (gas pistols not knives) and the hardest part for me was guilt. Guilt for getting mugged by two kids, guilt for not running, guilt for not knowing one pistol wasn't even loaded (I got them arrested. Felt guilty for that, two, they were only 14)... Kept replaying this Shit for a long time.
      It takes a while to get over something like this, and I was alone so didn't even have to consider someone else and their actions.
      Maybe take a self defense class together so you can rebuild as a team? Not to fight back next time, that's never a good plan, but it might still make you feel less helpless?
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      [–]lil_bugatti 80 points81 points82 points  (6 children)
      It really seems like he is just making excuses. It was the smart thing to do for himself but it wasn't at all for you especially running a block away leaving you alone with two guys that had a knife. He had no idea what could have happened to you, it could have gone much worse.
      I don't think gender roles have any part in this. I am 5'2 100 pounds and my boyfriend is 6'3 180 and if someone was holding my boyfriend at knifepoint(is that a term?) I would not have ran away, and if he did that would be a deal breaker for me.
      Him not wanting to tell a counselor or friends seems like he knows what he did wasn't really the right thing. If you are feeling this way you need to talk to him and tell him how it makes you feel. It doesn't have to ruin your relationship is just might take awhile for the trust to be gained back.
      Seeing a counselor would really be smart especially if you continue to feel this way, they know what questions to ask to get a healing conversation started!
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      [–]ktechmidas 47 points48 points49 points  (4 children)
      People have no idea how they will react, fight or flight probably kicked in and he went for flight which is usually a subconscious decision. I don't knock him for that, it happens. It's his reaction afterwards of "Oh yeah, it was the smart move" that gets me.
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      [–]lil_bugatti 15 points16 points17 points  (3 children)
      Think of any good parent I don't think any would run away if their child was in a similar situation. I would think instincts would kick in that you need to make sure this person you love is safe. Mostly it's just running away a whole block that makes me a little less sympathetic for him I feel like that has to be a conscious decision, but you never know. I agree his reaction afterwards wasn't very sincere.
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      [–]Meloetta 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
      I think a parent-child connection is different than a fiance connection. I don't think love of a SO is instinctual in the same way; that child connection often happens well before the child actually does anything to "deserve" it and is accompanied by a strong urge to protect them, not the same kind of connection that you have with a SO where love grows over time and you're both adults so "protection" isn't the top instinct.
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      [–]mm172 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
      I don't blame OP for not wanting to gamble with this guy, though. What if he does something stupid like stop paying attention in a scenario where the kid could get hurt, and then insists they not tell Mommy what happened?
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      [–]strps 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
      It's nice to think that, but the reality is that people behave in a number of different ways when confronted with a high pressure situation. Even stranger, the same people can behave differently the next time they are in a high pressure situation, not always with more calm and sangfroid. The nervous system ramps up and sympathetic responses take over. Even parents can behave in ways that appear 'selfish'. This is really not indicative of personality, but training or lack thereof. The kind of judgement you are so willing to dispense from the sidelines is exactly what the fiance is trying to avoid. Also, if you think that gender doesn't have anything to do with this, flip the scenario. If fiancee took off while the guy was at knife point you would see him being congratulated for taking one for the team, and it would not be publicly shameful for her to talk about. I agree his reaction afterwards wasn't very sincere.
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      [–]bigbrown4432 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      I think it's a bit extreme to view the fiance running away as a deal-breaker because it's literally a fight-or-flight ordeal. You never know how you'd respond under extreme stress like getting mugged. It's the fiance trying to justify his actions to not feel weak that's the problem.
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      [–]LAudre41 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
      He can rationalize his actions after the fact all he wants but It's difficult to believe he thought all of that through at the time. It's much more likely that fight or flight kicked in and he flew. You're right to feel abandoned because you were. He needs to own up to what he did so you can work past it and not try to justify what he did as right.
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      [–]autograft 37 points38 points39 points  (6 children)
      Honestly, that was really shit thing for your Fiance to do. I live in a place where muggings etc are part of the course.
      I do not think he did the smart and logical thing, I think he just abandoned you. The minutes where he left you were crucial, help only usually comes after the fact anyway.
      Its not even about the fact that he was a man. I would never even DREAM of leaving alone friends/family/anyone behind in that situation (and I am a woman). If we are running we run together, leaving you alone made you more vulnerable. That is why they tell you to walk in groups. Chances are by the time any help would arrive it would be for the aftermath which IS what happened in your case and what is most likely to happen. The only thing he managed to do was save his ass.
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      [–]attackjackalope 27 points28 points29 points  (4 children)
      Its not even about the fact that he was a man. I would never even DREAM of leaving alone friends/family/anyone behind in that situation (and I am a woman)
      I'm having trouble sorting out my feelings specifically because having been in something like this situation more than once, I cannot imagine bailing on anyone in that moment, much less bailing on someone I ostensibly cared about. You really are on your own for all intents and purposes with fast-moving events like muggings. The cops aren't waiting around the corner to intervene. It might be primitive, but OP's 2v2 vs. 1v2 math is exactly where my head went too. Sometimes it just matters that you look more like an equal match. I was in a group that got out of scary situation once because the armed aggressors suddenly counted and realized that we outnumbered them -- even though most of us were smaller and women.
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      [–]IllNeverGetAway -2 points-1 points0 points  (3 children)
      The armed aggressors in this situation already had a knife against someone. They had complete advantage and control in the situation. Whatever they wanted to do was going to happen whether he stayed or ran.
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      [–]attackjackalope 2 points3 points4 points  (2 children)
      Except that they could easily have panicked when he ran and done something foolish to harm her. The bottom line is the smartest thing is to be calm and compliant and not stress out the person with a weapon-based advantage when someone is in imminent danger.
      In my situation, knives were also involved. In most cases, people trying to mug you are going to be more cautious when they sense more of a disadvantage/risk to themselves, so numbers matter. OP's partner suddenly fleeing, which probably freaked them out, not only put her at a risk of them reacting poorly/dangerously because they were spooked, it also changed the calculus for what they could do and how long they could get away with it.
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      [–]IllNeverGetAway -3 points-2 points-1 points  (1 child)
      They could have easily used the knife on her to get them both into a van with them. They could have used that threat of violence to make him freeze so they could tie him up and take her, delaying emergency response for hours.
      You want to play what-if? I can play what if too.
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      [–]attackjackalope 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
      Standard advice for people being mugged is to comply with the muggers' demands calmly and not to make sudden movements. I'm not pulling this out of thin air. The reason that advice is given is that it's an unpredictable and EXTREMELY emotionally charged situation, and moving calmly and compliantly is the best way to make sure your mugger doesn't flip out.
      If the people holding you up try to get you into a vehicle or transport you, THAT is when you make sudden movements and it all goes to hell -- you do everything possible for that not to happen.
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      [–]i_aint_sorry 15 points16 points17 points  (0 children)
      Right, I was waiting for someone to mention this. I've been put in situations before where someone was threatening my male partner and even though I was female, smaller and weaker than him, no way would I have EVER cut and run like this. You just don't bail on your person in a dangerous situation. His justification for doing so is also counter to every single piece of self-defense advice and training I've ever had.
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      [–]doxydejour 28 points29 points30 points  (2 children)
      I'm not gonna touch on the actual mugging because lots of people have commented on that already, so instead I'm just going to talk about your fiance. Basically, he's an arsehole.
      Know how I know this? Because instead of being apologetic for what happened and wanting to help you work through it - because it is clearly still upsetting you - your fiance's blanket response has been "I didn't do anything wrong at all but please don't tell others what happened because, uh, I was right, so, uh, so there." He doesn't even want you to see a trained professional even though you're struggling because doing so may invalidate his homespun truth about what happened. This is a huge insight into who he will be as your husband. Nothing will ever be his fault. History will be re-written so that he is the victor in every problem your marriage encounters - and that's if he even admits that you're having problems.
      I look at him and wonder, do I even want kids with him? If I did have a child with him, would he abandon him or her in a dangerous situation because it was the ‘smart’ thing to do?
      Yeah. I think he would. And it still wouldn't be his fault.
      I don’t know what to think. He doesn’t want to see a counsellor because, again, he says they wouldn’t understand the situation unless they’d experienced it themselves.
      He barely experienced it himself. You're the one who was left behind to deal with the trauma. And if you want to see a therapist then you damn well go and see one, and nuts to him and his delicate ego.
      I don't think of myself as being particularly a paragon of virtue or even that brave an individual, but if somebody I loved enough to want to spend the rest of my life with was in danger you can bet your ass the last thing I would ever think of doing is abandoning them to save my own skin. It's bad enough that he did, but completely worse that he is forcing you to agree that it was all right for him to do so. He's invaliding your feelings to make himself feel better. That's not an admirable trait to look for in a partner.
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      [–]ST99000722 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
      This is the point. I can understand not being able to control what happened in the moment - just. It's what he's been doing since then that is in his control and is just as bad if not worse.
      If he was actually sorry he'd be helping OP through it emotionally, suggesting self defense for them both to help her feel safer and himself better prepared if anything happened again - but he's not. He's not doing anything.
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      [–]doxydejour 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      He's not doing anything.
      Not doing anything useful or supportive, at any rate. He's doing a great job of making himself look like a pillock though.
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      [–]Unclebux 59 points60 points61 points  (0 children)
      When the shit hit the fan he ran. You do not abandon people you care about. It is ok he was afraid but just admit it. I do not have any advice but you must wonder about his character.
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      [–]BridgetteKate92 8 points9 points10 points  (0 children)
      See, I could probably forgive him for running. In those kind of situations, people react differently. Some freeze, some co-operate without question, some go into survival mode. It's not often a conscious choice how you react, its pure instinct. He went into 'omg get the fuck out of here' mode.
      What I can't understand is him not basically feeling guilty as shit for doing that to you and trying to justify it instead of apologizing profusely. That's what would anger me.
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      [–]helendestroy 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
      So he ran and left you - a woman alone with two armed men who could have done anything at all to you.
      And now you're not allowed to seek councelling. And you're not allowed to speak to your friends.
      And all the while he's talking about what a survival genius he is?
      That's a terrible, terrible burden to load you with, tbh. It's not the actions of someone you want to be tied to forever. Either the first part or the following parts.
      I mean, they actually cut you. They actually cut you.
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      [–]MrsValentine 23 points24 points25 points  (0 children)
      It wasn't the smart bloody move. He needs to stop parroting that line to make himself feel better. How is leaving your girlfriend alone with two armed, strung out men who already have negative intentions smart? That sounds dumb as fuck to me. They could have easily raped you.
      The simple truth is that he didn't care, he just wanted to save his own skin -- AND EVERYONE AROUND YOU KNOWS THIS. Your mum knows. His mum knows, and she agrees with his actions because he's her little boy and she wants him safe. Your fiancé knows, which is why he's asked you not to tell your friends the real story (also way to go for him: removing parts of your support system after a traumatic incident to validate his ego). And you know it too.
      Do you want a partner that will throw you under the bus to save themselves?
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      [–]anonomie 8 points9 points10 points  (1 child)
      What a weasel. He can try to justify his actions all he wants but he showed you what kind of person he is. Let the only person he fools be himself.
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      [–]woodycanuck 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      Or he knows people are stupid and watch a lot of Hollywood movies.
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      [–]joygirl007 31 points32 points33 points  (1 child)
      First, I'm sorry that happened to you - it must have been terrifying!
      Second, yes, what he did was "logical." Fight or flight response is a real thing - and clearly he's a flight type. Also worth mentioning... not sure what country you're in, but in mine, women are told to just give in to attacks because "it's not worth your life!" and to assume that whenever it's dark, you're in danger! ...Whereas men don't get that messaging. They get told to "be a man!" and "stand up for your woman!"... which might be why he's insisting no one can know the circumstances (ahem HE RAN AWAY), to spare his pride.
      Third, where you SHOULD be mad is this "no counseling" bullshit. He did something that makes you not want sex with him. That's a relationship-ender unless it gets worked on. If he refuses to work on it, your relationship pretty much IS over.
      You should sit him down and explain that if he refuses counseling, the wedding is off. If he can't understand that you need to work on this, if his pride forbids him from opening up to a counselor, then you really have to ask yourself if that's the kind of man you can marry. Sure, he might run from a mugging. But running from a problem that's threatening your relationship? How can you marry that...?
      Again, really sorry about what happened to you. I know exactly the scene in Jurassic Park - it's even more frustrating in the book!
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      [–]jeremyhoffman 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      Completely agree. Counseling and therapy is a must. The fiancé is not the villain in this story; the muggers who drove this wedge between a happy couple are the villains.
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      [–]erbie_ancock 36 points37 points38 points  (1 child)
      The line he keeps repeating that people can't understand the situation if they didn't experience it for themselves is just wrong and deeply unintellectual.
      Of course the situation can be explained and understood. If he means his fear or reaction can't be explained, that's something else.
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      [–]N-glcnacylation 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      What he's saying when he says people won't understand is that he knows or fears that people will not come to the same conclusion as him, therefore they won't "understand".
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      [–]RealRealGood 19 points20 points21 points  (0 children)
      This isn't a gendered issue. This reminded me of a scene in It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, a comedy, where two male friends are being mugged and one runs away. It's humorously portrayed, but the one who ran away is depicted as a coward who left his friend as a sacrificial lamb.
      I hate to be so absolute, but what your fiance did was cowardly. It greatly increased the muggers panicking and hurting you. Or hurting you out of retaliation. FWIW, I have been in a similar situation with a female friend of mine (we're both women) and neither of us once thought of running and leaving the other.
      When people say things like "don't be a hero" they mean don't fight the criminals hand-to-hand or confront them in a dangerous manner. This phrase does not mean "run away hoping they kill your companion instead of you." Sudden movements are always a bad idea, which is how you ended up with a knife in your ribs.
      For me, it wouldn't be something I could forgive. Especially since he's doubling down, trying to get you to keep it secret, and completely rejects your own feelings about it while trying to claim what he did was "logical." It wasn't; his response was extremely emotional and dangerous.
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      [–]robot_worgen 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
      I've been in a not the same but similar enough situation where I left the immediate area in order to call the police, with a wink-wink blessing to do so from the person who remained.
      What stands out to me is that your fiancé doesn't seem to express any guilt about leaving you there. I hated leaving the other person with every fibre of my being, and even though it was by that point it was 100% necessary to call the cops and we had worked together on getting me out of there without arousing suspicion so I could do so I definitely felt guilty and worried when I did.
      In general in your situation I'm not sure running helped or not, but it's weird to me that he's insisting it was just the smart thing to do and he doesn't feel bad about leaving you there. It speaks to a lack of empathy on his part because that must've been terrifying for you. I think he clearly ran out of fear, not a logical plan to get the cops, and he's trying really hard to cover that up.
      You're asking for counselling and he's refusing, which is a big red flag imo. But if he won't go with you, maybe you can start going alone? It's a traumatising experience which you could benefit from some individual support on anyway, and maybe if you lead the way he'll agree to couples counselling as well.
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      [–]jumbles1234 5 points6 points7 points  (1 child)
      I can't provide an answer, but a particular take on this was the premise of the movie Force Majeure, where a man runs away from his family when he believes (incorrectly) they're all about to be buried by an avalance. A 'comedy-drama' but I remember it being very sensitive. (It's Nordic so expect long pensive introspections before breakfast).
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      [–]jumbotronshrimp 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      To piggyback on this, the film The Loneliest Planet is very similar to OP's situation. Shows just how fragile things are and how a momentary instinct can do untold damage in a relationship.
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      [–]ChopsNZ 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
      He panicked. There was nothing smart or logical to it and he is bull shitting you if he thinks you will believe that nonsense.
      I personally couldn't marry someone I don't respect. The running away I could deal with. The massaging of the facts to stop him appearing like a dick to his friends. Nah.
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      [–]whatthewhatk 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
      If he didn't ask you NOT to tell people, I'd maybe see his explanation. But he's ashamed of what he did, showing intent.
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      [–]Elly_Smelly_Rat 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
      He acted on instinct. And his instinct was to run and leave you. He wasn't considering that it may or may not help you, it was self preservation. All of his reasoning and explanations came after the fact. He doesn't want you to tell friends because he knows that will just reinforce your doubts.
      I would not trust this man to have my back.
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      [–]0sricStark 11 points12 points13 points  (0 children)
      Look up advice on what to do during muggings and the advice is not to do what your fiance did.
      The advice is to take out your belongings, throw them on the ground (not hand them to the muggers, so they can't grab you), then run.
      The advice is NOT to leg it, leave the other person there and call the cops.
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      [–]Rhodey253 15 points16 points17 points  (1 child)
      I think his fight or flight instinct kicked in and he obviously chose flight.
      I agree with your statement of potentially putting you in more danger. He definitely did that. Whether running away was the smart thing to do or not, any situation that goes from 2v2 to 2v1 is automatically more dangerous. I would suggest maybe seeing a counselor (if you haven't already) and bringing him into a session to discuss it.
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      [–]strps 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
      fight or flight instinct kicked in and he obviously chose flight.
      haha, you don't get to choose.
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      [–]Prezbo123 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
      Listen, he can't help the initial impulse. We can judge but we don't know how we'd react in such a situation. What the huge problem is, is telling you that what he did made sense, failing to apologize, and enlisting you to not tell his friends. The difference between you and him is you are a rape target, and a very horrible version of that could very well have happened. What if that had happened? Would you be able to forgive him for leaving you to that?
      If I were you I couldn't get past this. And the reason you should tell your friends exactly why you're breaking up with him is because he's shown himself to have such a deplorable character that he might tell them something like you cheated or whatever. At the very least you deserve your friends' sympathy and remaining friendship. Also his friends kind of deserve to know who he is. His behavior is bad enough that I'd certainly rethink our friendship.
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      [–]blingx 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
      I fail to understand how YOU believe it was the smart thing to do. It wasn't. Holy crap. I could never be with my SO after something like that.
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      [–]GenuineClamhat 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
      I was in a similar situation many years ago. I was dating this dude and it was very, very early in the relationship. We got mugged. He quite literally dropped to the ground in the fetal position and begged, "Hurt her, not me!"
      The muggers, oddly enough, felt bad and mugged only him instead of me.
      I dumped him shortly after for a whole host of reasons. Now, I don't feel like I need someone to protect me or take a knife for me, but I want someone who is willing to stand in the shit with me. Not someone who will throw me to the wolves.
      While I think it's hard for most people to really know what they would do in this situation, I think it's fair to say that him bolting and leaving a woman with two men who are actively mugging them looks really, really bad.
      While I do think this is something you can come back from, his "explaining" of his actions tells me more about his character, that lends a very negative light to him. I feel like the only appropriate response of his should have been, "I am so sorry I ran. I don't know why I ran, but that was my gut reaction. When I could regain my thoughts the only thing that came to mind was to call 911." He's making excuses for his natural instinct and trying to make it seem like a choice based on logic. People, own your choices. Really, really own them. If he had as much awareness as he says he did to "think and make a choice" then he's absolutely an asshole.
      Personally, I could forgive instinct and the self awareness from it. I'd be hurt, but I think that's something I could move past. What would eat at me is something like this where my partner tried to "reason" with me about why he was somehow in the logically and mentally sound right for doing what he did. Like I said, I want someone willing to stand in the shit with me as we wade through life, not someone who cannot take responsibility for themselves and their actions.
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      [–]Dishy31983 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
      So not only did he leave you to save himself, but now he is gaslighting you by making you think your feelings of abandonment are invalid and suggesting that you are a bad person for wanting to use him as a "meatshield"?? If he turns this around on you now, he will do it to you again when something else challenging comes up. I'm so sorry this happened to you OP, but he doesn't sound like the type of steadfast partner you deserve for the rest of your life.
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      [–]Insane-Samurai 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
      I was also robbed at night while with my partner at the time. He didn't run, but he did put himself behind me.
      I tried to shrug off my feelings about that, but honestly, being used as a shield (or distraction to escape) by someone who is supposed to love you, regardless of gender, sucks. Your feelings are valid.
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      [–]EarlGreyhair 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
      You need to insist on therapy. I'm not going to go into the thorny issue of whether he did right or wrong, and I don't believe that the therapist will either. If he does feel judged by one counsellor, he could always try to find others. You could even go separately to start with, and if you both progress well you could try together.
      What is more important is that you get to a place where you can trust him again. If that doesn't happen, you may need to think about breaking up.
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      [–]awildwoodsmanappears 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
      Tell your friends. He panicked and chose self-preservation over you. You're right to worry and personally I'd leave some like that. Worst part is he won't even admit it. So it will happen again.
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      [–]theladybaelish 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
      I would probably end things if I were you. And that goes for friends too. I'm a woman and if any of my friends (male or female) left me in this situation I don't think I would even continue the friendship. I've been in emergency situations before and I know that my personal reaction is to stay calm and to have concern for those around me. Its probably unfair for me to expect that type of reaction from other people but thats just what I require in my relationships.
      Sorry, OP. Glad you're safe.
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      [–]goesploinkwhenpoked 4 points5 points6 points  (2 children)
      Holy shit. I'm 30/F and live in a pretty violent place, and in every relationship I've been in, we've had the 'if we get mugged, this is what we do' talk. Every single person I've dated has unequivocally stated that they'd want me to run, and leave them to handle the situation. Personally I'm in the 'stay calm and give them your shit' camp, but I've had partners get really angry for saying that I'd stay with them and give my things to a mugger rather than run and save my own ass (which is not to say I wouldn't run if I had to, but only if my partner was running with me). You did exactly the right thing. Your fiancé is shitty. And I absolutely agree with the other posters that he doesn't want you to discuss it with mutual friends because they'd call him out on his behaviour. Frankly I'd be really worried going forward - you want a partner who'll always have your back, and it doesn't sound like this guy cares about anything other than himself when it comes to crunch time.
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      [–]woodycanuck 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
      I'm curious how that talk would go if you brought up this exact scenario. A strong mugger grabs you and hold a knife to your ribs so you simply can't run. Your SO has to option to stay and give all his stuff, or he sees an opportunity to run for help. What do?
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      [–]goesploinkwhenpoked 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      Ideally he stays with me and gives up his stuff as asked. Although, to be honest, he'd probably (definitely, actually) try and fight for me (he's a big dude and has fought off knife-wielding muggers before). But a friend's partner did exactly that, and got stabbed in the neck and bled out in front of her and died in about 3 minutes. Which is part of the reason that I advocate staying calm and surrendering your belongings. Ain't none of your shit worth dying for, and I'd hate it if my partner risked his life for a cell phone. edit - I actually just spoke to him in more detail - he says if there was a knife to my ribs and I was in danger there's no way he'd risk my life my trying to fight. he'd stay and comply and do everything in his power to keep me safe.
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      [–]bigbrown4432 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
      Sounds like a panic reaction and he's trying to justify it with his reasoning so he's not ashamed if he's being so defensive about the ordeal. Obviously you recognize that it's wrong to expect him to defend you solely because he's a man. But feelings aren't rational. Your perspective of him has changed. Therapy and open communication is your best bet.
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      [–]PossumAloysius 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
      Nah OP fuck that I'd never leave my baby, we would've died together that night. I believe that I should protect her because I'm literally a foot taller and 100 pounds more than she is but I'd stick with any of my friends in that situation.
      Not even out of obligations of doing the right thing, just because I'd feel like shit if I abandoned them and I'd have to live with that forever.
      But ultimately it just comes down to whether or not you can look past this and continue being with this person. I couldn't.
      Edit: plus he knows he's wrong because he doesn't want you to tell the real version of the story to his friends. Fuck that.
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      [–]Its_a_typo_I_swear 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
      I think the "smart" and "logical" thing to do would have been to not make any sudden movements and calmly hand over all valuables.
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      [–]jesseandthepussyrats 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
      He thought of himself first and you second, plain and simple.
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      [–]CuteThingsAndLove 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
      Him running away wasn't the issue. How he's handling this is.
      • You're not allowed to tell your friends or take it to a counselor
      • He won't go to counselling with you (BIG RED FLAG-- why doesn't he care enough about how you feel to work this out professionally??)
      • He is telling you that you're in the wrong because of how you feel
      • He's not done anything to make you feel secure and safe again
      He's doing everything wrong, no wonder you don't feel good right now. And, if my boyfriend left me, I'd feel completely different about him as well. If my best friend left me, I'd feel different about them. If I was with anyone when this happened and they left me, I'd feel abandoned and scared and alone.
      This isn't about gender roles. It sounds like he's trying to make you feel guilty for how you feel about what he did. He's supposed to be understanding, and he is not. And now he won't do anything to help make you feel better about him.
      I'd bring up counselling with him again. If he keeps telling you no, I'd seriously consider leaving him. You shouldn't be with someone who isn't willing to work out your problems, regardless of the situation which causes the problems.
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      [–]cerialthriller 40 points41 points42 points  (26 children)
      I mean I don't know about your country or anything but where I'm from in the US that's a dog shit move to run and leave you behind. If he was so concerned about someone being able to call the police he could have told you to run. He doesn't want you telling his friends because they won't think the same of him either. I know gender equality is a big issue right now but men are stronger than women its biological fact and as such we should be protecting women especially our girlfriends. Not many men would be able to not look at him differently after finding out he fled leaving his girlfriend alone with 2 armed muggers.
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      [–]vierolyn 24 points25 points26 points  (0 children)
      he could have told you to run.
      She was the one that had the robbers' attention. She was rummaging in her coat. She had the knife pressed to her ribs. There was no opportunity for her to run.
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      [–]Altorrin -19 points-18 points-17 points  (15 children)
      we should be protecting women especially our girlfriends
      Whoa, why is this sexist garbage being upvoted. I thought we were against gender roles?
      Edit: apparently that's only when it benefits women. My mistake.
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      [–]ShesBadNewsOP comment score below threshold-23 points-22 points-21 points  (14 children)
      A dude can take a stabbing much better than a woman can.
      Edit: Why is this downvoted? It's just true. Men are just a bit hardier than women right now. Give it a couple of thousand years of modern living and maybe evolution will close the gap, but as it is, it's much better for a dude to take a stabbing than a dudette for a number of reasons.
      I didn't mean to offend ye fair maiden of the internet. M'ladies tips fedora
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      [–]UncleTang 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
      ??? I'm pretty sure that anyone suffering a punctured lung or heart would have an equally grim prognosis.
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      [–]Dijon_Mastered 0 points1 point2 points  (12 children)
      Stabbing a man in the heart/throat will yield the same effect as stabbing a woman there. Unless the guy is Spongebob's David Hasselhoff, who's muscles can contract and tighten to the point that he can rocket a sponge to the bottom of the ocean, he's going to die.
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      [–]ShesBadNewsOP 1 point2 points3 points  (11 children)
      But generally in a situation where an attacker has a knife the attacker will have less mastery of the situation when dealing with man than a woman ie, he(the attacker) will find it more difficult to overpower his intended victim and inflict the greatest damage. Not always, as some women are much stronger than many of us men, but generally.
      Also, I am no physiologist, but I expect there are slightly different physiological respones to severe trauma in men and women, so if the injury was not immediately fatal, the man perhaps would have a greater chance at survival. I'm thinking along the lines of increased vascularity and blood flow, and possibly some sort of increased adrenal response. But this is just spitballing.
      Finally, a further hypothetical, generally men have greater lean body mass than women, and women have a greater bodyfat percentage. In this case, I'm not sure if the added fat would actually be more beneficial than muscle in the event of a stabbing, but honestly, the benefits would probably outweighed by the reasons outlined in my first point.
      That's just what I think. Hopefully neither of us ever has to find out!
      Edit: Missed a word.
      Edit 2 and 3: Actually missed 3 words!
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      [–]Dijon_Mastered -1 points0 points1 point  (5 children)
      Or the attacker could just as easily wig out and stab the man in the face and chest.
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      [–]ShesBadNewsOP 0 points1 point2 points  (4 children)
      And the man would probably still have a better chance at defending himself, and surviving the resultant injuries.
      But that's not the point. It's about how a man taking the hit is not necessarily about gender roles.
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      [–]strps 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
      that's...just not true. Knife wounds kill people, unlike the movies. You don't know what you're talking about.
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      [–]ShesBadNewsOP 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      Knives aren't magic death sticks. People who have been trained in self defence learn to deflect attacks with non-esential body parts to ultimately save their lives. A bigger dude has a better chance of this working.
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      [–]Dijon_Mastered 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
      I agree that a man would probably have a better chance at defending himself. I'm just saying that once you get stabbed, you're stabbed. I don't know of any research (I could be wrong) that says a man can survive being stabbed in the throat better than a woman can
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      [–]wonderworkingwords -3 points-2 points-1 points  (4 children)
      Women are less likely to bet stabbed in the first place, because criminals grow up with the same refrain of "you don't hurt a woman" every man grows up with.
      If you want to play the rationalisation game, that's relevant.
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      [–]ShesBadNewsOP 1 point2 points3 points  (3 children)
      I don't know if that applies in the situation where two (probable) drug addicts who were threatening a woman with a knife.
      What if they were attempting to rape her, would you still make the same ridiculous, pseudo-sociological argument?
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      [–][deleted]  (2 children)
      [removed]
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        [–]Pluto_dwarf_planet -15 points-14 points-13 points  (3 children)
        Isn't it sexist? I was always told that women have more lower body strength than men. Also that women don't need protection from men in this day and age.
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        [–]IShouldBeGradingNow 10 points11 points12 points  (0 children)
        I don't think it's sexist to acknowledge that he left the woman he says he loves alone with two men who were larger than her, one of whom was actively holding a knife against her. She was in danger at that moment, so it's disingenuous to suggest that she didn't need protection. He left her alone and the police took fifteen minutes to arrive: it doesn't take nearly fifteen minutes to kill someone. I would never leave my boyfriend while he had a knife pressed against his abdomen, and I sure as shit wouldn't have the gall to defend abandoning him in literal mortal danger as the logical choice.
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        [–]verticalnoise 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
        A woman fleeing and leaving her SO to be stabbed by robbers would get the same flack.
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        [–]cerialthriller 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
        Who says women have more lower body strength? It's not close to true, biology isn't sexist.
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        [–]almostelm 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
        People do stupid shit when they're scared. Honestly I could forgive him for running away. I could not forgive him trying to justify it and deflecting my feelings into one of selfishness by trying to make it about how I wanted him there as a "meat shield" when I wanted him there as my partner.
        His behavior towards you AFTER the mugging is the true unconscionable act here. If he could just admit that his response was horrible and ask for your forgiveness and promise to be there for you in the future, that would be possible. But no, you're at fault here for not seeing him as "smart and logical". Give me a break!
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        [–]isitlike 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
        Congratz! You got that once in a lifetime chance to be a meat-shield of a cowardly man.
        Of course his mother praised her little boy, she raise him to be a coward that no one could depend on. Nothing to do with traditional gender role or not. Imagine you are a man and you are your bf's buddy. childhood friend or something...he legged it off when shit got real. Will you guys still be friend seriously?
        That is your answer.
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        [–]rhea_hawke 7 points8 points9 points  (1 child)
        I would lose so much respect for my husband if he abandoned me like this, "logical" or not. You must have been so afraid. I cant even imagine how horrible that must have felt. I don't think you are overreacting at all and if you want to save this relationship counselling might be your best and only option.
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        [–]Clyde_Bruckman 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
        I can't even imagine my husband abandoning me in a situation like that. Nor I abandoning him. I can understand the instinct to run but...I don't know. Maybe I'm just looking at it from the perspective of my own relationship and that makes it very difficult to imagine because my husband has a very strong protective instinct and though that's never happened to us and I guess you can't say for sure until it does, I'm almost certain that running would be the very last thing he would do. Certainly not leaving me behind. It just...wouldn't. We'd likely be fighting for who got to stand in front of the knife to protect the other..."no no honey, let ME get stabbed, I'm younger, I can take it better" "no, I have more muscle, they won't hit my organs" "well I have more fat..." The robbers would probably be tired of us squabbling over who should get stabbed and just leave. Ha.
        Regardless of his actions in the moment which happened justifiable or not, my real issue with op's bf is the disregard for her feelings he's shown since. He doesn't get to dictate what, how, and with whom she shares her experiences and his actions were part of that. He knows he will be judged poorly for it and he doesn't want to be embarrassed.
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        [–]skeletonclock 8 points9 points10 points  (0 children)
        Issue 1: he left you alone with two armed criminals. Stop accepting his explanation that this was in any way clever or sensible.
        This is not a gender issue. Would you leave him alone with two armed criminals? Would you leave anyone you loved alone with two armed criminals?
        I'm going to keep saying the words til it sinks in: HE LEFT YOU ALONE WITH TWO ARMED CRIMINALS
        Issue 2: even if he genuinely believed he did the right thing, when you said you felt abandoned, he should have immediately apologised and done everything he could to help you recover and move on together. The other day my boyfriend repeated himself a lot/got overly touchy when drunk and I got a bit annoyed, and when I told him the next day he apologised several times for making me uncomfortable, hugged me, made me a cup of tea, asked if I'd like him to stop drinking and if there was anything he could do to help.
        Your boyfriend left you alone with two armed criminals and he didn't do any of this. 8 months later he is still ignoring and invalidating your feelings and claiming he was right.
        Please think of it this way: if your best friend told you her boyfriend abandoned her during an armed mugging, would you tell her he was sensible and she should stay with him?
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        [–]b_l_a_c_k_opium 16 points17 points18 points  (0 children)
        Him running away left you more vulnerable and could have escalated the situation in some horrible ways. Its understandable that he prioritized his own safety in a moment of fear, but that doesn't mean he's a good partner or someone you want to have kids with.
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        [–]puncher612 5 points6 points7 points  (1 child)
        Your fiancé can say whatever he wants after the fact about a smart decision, but I sincerely doubt anything was going through his panicked mind other than "DANGER!! RUN!!"
        It's not about what he did, it's why he did it. Even worse, he never even owned up to his cowardice, but instead doubled down. Call me macho - I wouldn't have done that even to one of my guy friends.
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        [–]robot_worgen 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
        Exactly. I do not believe he was doing a logical calculation in his mind about the best course of action, he just ran.
        Maybe that was a response he had little/no control over, but he should've apologises to OP for leaving her there (good decision or not, it's terrifying for her), and owned up to what happened and admitted he was afraid. That he's trying to cover it with 'logically I did the right thing' rather than just admitting that running away made things 10x scarier for her and being sorry for that is really shitty.
        It shows he's more concerned with keeping up a image than being honest and empathising with her.
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        [–]w2g 11 points12 points13 points  (0 children)
        Just wanted to say that your thoughts about being 2v2 in case of a fight are not realistic. Please never fight someone with a knife, even if it's for example one girl that's smaller than you.
        Had it come to a fight you would have both died with a chance of well over 99%.
        Going from that it might seem like a logical choice to run and call for help immediately. But that depends completely on the situation and the mood of the muggers.
        In most cases it's the best idea to calmly give them all they want so as not to aggravate them, you definitely don't want any sudden movements from any party if one of you has a knife pressed against them.
        That being said someone who's not trained would never be able to make a rational choice in that situation. If you see a knife come close to someone in your group it's fight or flight mode.
        Talk to him again, go to therapy (just a couple sessions).
        It could also be a good idea for you to take a martial arts class together. It more than likely won't help if shit hits the fan, but can help with staying calm and being able to think in stress situations.
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        [–]Sinvisigoth 10 points11 points12 points  (0 children)
        He left you to die.
        He then tried to make you feel grateful to him for leaving you to die.
        accuses me of wanting to use him as a meatshield
        This is a verbatim description of what he actually did.
        There is no logic in the fight or flight response. Logic was not used at the time. Logic cannot be applied now.
        He left you to die.
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        [–]SkullBearer 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
        While what he did made sense, his behavior afterwards was appalling. You should be worried that if everything you have a problem, he will minimise it, gaslight you, and refuse to see anyone about it. He should have been deeply apologetic about what he has to do, and be working hard to make it up to you. He isn't.
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        [–]dolphinesque 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
        I'm so sorry you went through this traumatic event.
        You absolutely need counseling. It is the smart and logical thing to do after a traumatic event like this. If your fiance is so smart and logical, he would know this. He would know how important your mental well-being is after a trauma like this. I think that's what makes me so mad about this. If he truly was smart and logical, if he truly was concerned about your health, safety, and will be in, he would be pushing for you to go to therapy and counseling to help you deal with the after affects of this event. The fact that he doesn't want you to clearly shows that he is not smart and logical. If show that he made a bad choice, he's mortified by it, and yet again he is putting you at risk in order to save himself (in this case risking your mental well-being to save his ego).
        The other thing that concerns me is the idea of having a child with this man. What if a similar scenario happened, but he was with a child? Would he flee, and abandon a child to his or her fate with aggressive strangers? I think I would never be able to get that out of my mind.
        You need counseling. Your fiance does not own you. You can talk to anyone you want to talk to, and you can go for counseling because you really need it. This is not his decision to make it's your decision. You need to be able to process these events in a safe environment. He has done enough harm to you.
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        [–]RedditIsFullOfJerks 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
        I have no idea why anyone would think that running is safer when being mugged. Him running could have made the muggers harm you. There is a reason why they are using a deadly weapon against you, it may just be intimidation but you have no idea what they are capable of.
        I have always been taught that no matter what when you are being robbed always give them what they want and call for help later, valuable things are not more important than your life. Running or fighting back is dangerous because you don't know what other weapons they have on them or how desperate they are to get what you have.
        That being said, HE was not in any danger. The knife was up to your ribs, him running away from danger is total BS. The cops would have been called regardless minus his valuables. The muggers were expecting to get the items from both of you, they weren't expecting your SO to run off. Unexpected things may cause them to react differently than what they expected. You are extremely lucky that your valuables were the only thing that they wanted.
        Basically he did put himself in danger by reacting unexpectedly and running, further more he left you alone while 2 individuals held a knife to your ribs. Not only that, he showed you that he cares more about whats in his pockets than he does about you.
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        [–]Doomblaze 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
        but my fiancé there would have made it 2v2 (although we would have still been at a disadvantage, them still having a knife and size advantage)
        This is a really poor way of looking at things because fighting unarmed vs a knife is a great way to get someone seriously injured or killed, regardless of how many people there are.
        I also wonder, what would have happened if him leaving me had given them the courage to do something worse? I mean, I don't think they would have - they seemed pretty strung out, interested in valuables and cash only - but what if?
        What if scenarios are rarely healthy since they get out of hand extremely quickly. What is healthy is talking about it to him seriously and seeing a professional, since that's what they exist for. The fact is what he did was better for ensuring his survival and worse for ensuring yours, and that is the huge issue here.
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        [–]macimom 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
        I understand where you are coming from. I know with absolute 100% certainty that my husband would NEVER leave me to face danger alone.
        I'll also not that instead of empathizing and addressing your concerns it sounds like your fiancee is just telling you "Im right and you're wrong" which is not cool either.
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        [–]rootless 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
        I'm so sorry this happened to you.
        I don't have any equivalent experience, but knowing how I respond in dangerous situations, I either freeze or bolt. It seems completely automatic and something I have no conscious control over.
        Here's a stupid example. I was talking to my husband in the kitchen during a hurricane and the moment I heard the crack of a tree on the way down, I launched into a full sprint in the opposite direction. We laugh about it, but in that moment we both saw how I'm hard wired to flee if I perceive sudden danger.
        Another stupid example: I was walking in a crosswalk one afternoon when I saw a bicycle speeding up the sidewalk toward me on a collision course with a pedestrian walking perpendicular on the sidewalk. I was the only person with clear vision of the collision that was about to happen because the building on the corner blocked the view of the rogue cyclist and the pedestrian. I froze stock still with a look of horror on my face, unable to warn the pedestrian verbally that she was about to get taken out by a bicycle. Fortunately for her, I looked so bizarre in the crosswalk that she paused to look at me, likely out of concern. The cyclist whizzed by her, missing her by mere inches.
        So bottom line, I'm not a great person to have around you in life or death situations. I'm aware of that, I own it, and I would never try to justify my responses as "the right thing to do." It's hard wired.
        It sounds like a lot of your issue is that he's justifying his actions rather than owning them and acknowledging that you found them alarming. Can you live with that in a partner? Please don't marry him until you resolve this or can live with a partner who insists on defending parts of himself that are not so great. We all have faults, but people who double down on their faults or are unwilling to consider how their actions impact others don't make great partners.
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        [–]merobo_hildert 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
        I could not come back from this. It's doubtful that he was standing there, calculating the best move (unless your fiancé is James Bond). What's far more likely is that he panicked and is now justifying it after the fact, but, by the way, please don't tell anybody because they won't understand, thank you very much.
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        [–]mre5765 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
        What he did was logical. It isn't something I would do, but I admire his logic.
        If it had been him staying while you ran away, no one would question you. This is an example of gender inequality.
        Regardless, if it bothers you, then you are both better off breaking up. You can find a more traditional, less logical, male partner.
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        [–]oreomilkshake1 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
        It wasn't logical, it was cowardly.
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        [–]Mangeris 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
        I would not feel safe with a partner of any gender who would abandon me in a situation like this.
        I also don't think it was the smarter thing to do. In a mugging, the smartest thing is to hand over your belongings calmly and not run or fight. OP, you were put at a much larger risk by him running. Not only were you left alone with no witnesses, but he escalated their agitation.
        This isn't something I could get over. Especially as he is masking his fearful reaction as the smarter thing for both of you.
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        [–]AnthieaTyrell 4 points5 points6 points  (2 children)
        I had a similar situation. My ex (notice that he is now an ex)saw a snake that was by me, screamed, ran away, and pushed me out of his path.
        From then on I KNEW that if it was him or me, he would always choose him. I knew that I wouldn't do that and I would at least drag a loved one with me (yes I have been in that situation).
        I don't think it is about gender roles I think it is shitty that when you had a knife to your ribs he RAN. They could have done much worse. You could have been maimed, murdered, kidnapped, or raped. The bad part is he isn't even a little sorry. Of course HIS mother is happy! Her little boy was using you as the meat shield.
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        [–]SlackinWhileWorkin 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
        I'm not sure if that's fair because I can tell you right now I'm more scared of snakes and spiders than bad guys. It's not rational but it's true.
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        [–]SlackinWhileWorkin 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
        I'm not sure if that's fair because I can tell you right now I'm more scared of snakes and spiders than bad guys. It's not rational but it's true.
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        [–]bearsinbrum 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
        I have stood back to back with my husband in a bar fight I did not think about my personal safety it was a automatic reaction I could not stand by and watch him get hurt.
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        [–]hegoesbarkigocoo 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
        Your mother is right , he is a coward ! I wouldn't marry someone like that , he is selfish - it's his nature and all the counselling in the world cannot change his nature
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        [–]vierolyn 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
        My own thoughts are that, by running away, he potentially significantly decreased my chance of survival. [...] my fiancé there would have made it 2v2 (although we would have still been at a disadvantage, them still having a knife and size advantage) and not left me completely at the mercy of two criminals who mug couples at night. I also wonder, what would have happened if him leaving me had given them the courage to do something worse? I mean, I don't think they would have - they seemed pretty strung out, interested in valuables and cash only - but what if?
        First you should forget anything about fighting them. You are a non factor in a fight and never fight someone who has a knife. It wouldn't have been a 2vs2 but a 4vs1.5.
        What if him escaping (with his phone) stopped them from having the courage to do something worse? Him being present doesn't prevent them from doing whatever they want ("If you move OP dies" while you have a knife near your throat).
        "What ifs" don't help. They can be used in both ways.
        What I find interesting is that you suggested counseling to him, but you never said anything about you seeing one? Why is that? You were robbed at gun point and clearly have problems dealing with it? Go see one.
        Maybe that will also be the push that your fiancé needs to see one himself.
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        [–]testo187 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
        This is really tricky, I read an article once about exactly these types of situations; you see your loved one react 'naturally' thus revealing who they truly are during a perceived life or death incident and it will forever alter how you see them.
        He sounds embarrassed by his reaction because to be honest we have little control over how we respond to threatening events because it is generally during these moments that intellectualising goes out the window and your base responses are left to deal with whatever is occurring. That said, he has revealed to you that he isn't reliable in stressful situations and that his immediate concern is his own safety not yours or the company he is with, if you want to move past this, which frankly will be very difficult, you need to go to counselling together
        Best of luck.
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        [–]rinabean 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
        Nobody can really control how they react in these situations. So, though I totally understand how terrifying it must have been for you, that part really isn't his fault. However, you could still not be able to get over that feeling/memory and leave him, and that wouldn't be wrong, just unfortunate.
        It's his reaction afterwards that is the biggest problem. He was not thinking about what the smart thing to do was! You were more likely to be thinking, you felt calm and you did what is the normal advice given by police, give them your stuff, don't die for your stuff
        He ran. He left you with 2 violent men. It's great that he rang 999 but he made that decision after he ran. I don't believe for a second that the men were their with their knives and he was like "I am going to run so that I can call 999 and also I think she will be fine"
        When you are going to run, have you ever felt this? when you are going to run as a danger response, you can't do anything but run, it's like your brain shuts down, you become all electric, every muscle is full of blood and sugar (which has been diverted from your brain and your guts, which is why your stomach falls first), and the only thought left is RUN!!!!!!!!
        It's beyond ridiculous to pretend that logic is involved in that. Maybe you would feel better if he admitted it was an animal reaction he couldn't control, and that he would never deliberately choose to leave you - but he won't, because his pride is more important than your feelings of safety to him. Disappointing. Like what woman is going to be reassured by a man saying "yes I chose to leave you, it was logical, I thought hard and then decided to leave you". Ugh! It's insulting, too, I mean you literally did the right, clever thing and he literally did what you're not meant to! He was lucky - that's not logic, either!
        Counsellors would totally understand by the way, stress & trauma are their bread and butter. Maybe what he means is that he knows any counsellor worth their salt would straight away say that it's not logical to run, maybe as a way to make him feel better about how we lose control in these situations, but he doesn't want that. He doesn't want to get better, he doesn't want you to get better, he's just spouting off about logic and machismo, neither of which have the slightest thing to do with it
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        [–]CocoaTee[🍰] 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
        He ran away and never came back? Calling the cops and saying "My fiancee and I are getting mugged by 2 men with weapons at the corner of X and Y" takes 30 seconds max. He could of then put the phone, still on, in his pocket and ran back to make sure you're not raped or worse. He was a coward and hey, he doesn't have to put his life on the line to protect you, but then you don't have to be attracted to this either.
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        [–]RazorBlast 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
        I think you should be thankful to the fucking thief for not getting startled and stab you when the retard ran. In my country you could get killed for shit like that on purpose.
        And also, those two could have kidnapped you, rapped you, killed you, who fucking knows?
        This isn't a matter of gender equality, it's a matter of caring for your loved one. My boyfriend and I were also robbed and NEVER left my side.
        Your fiancé is a fucking coward and that's the reason for which he doesn't want you to tell the story to your friends, because they'll call him that for sure. Also it looks like he's "mommy's baby" type, which is never good in a long term relationship with the inlaws since if there's a problem, they'll NEVER hear your side.
        But the worst here isn't only that he pretends to be a hero about the situation, it's that he completely disregards your feelings and twists everything in order for you to be the guilty party.
        If I were in your shoes i'd get the fuck away from him...
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        [–]NeuroTypicalCure 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
        Your fiance is justifying his actions, he didn't think when he ran, It's only after the action that he came to the conclusion of it being a "smart" decision.
        It isn't even smart, the fact that he didn't even think about you getting raped ( or something else that he can't fix after coming back for you) says to me that he just chose his life above yours, and as a man and possible father, valueing your life more than someone you love isn't a good trait.
        Aside from that, i wouldn't know what i would've done, i would've probably complied with the robbers demands because i couldn't take them both on, thinking that they were just robbers.
        If things got worse, i could distract to let her run away, since they wouldn't rape me. They aren't going to kill anyway because they could've done so and steal from our corpses if they weren't afraid of that.
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        [–]Jsm1370 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
        Cut to the quick, he's a pussy and that's about all you need to know.
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        [–]unhappymedium 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
        He knows he's a coward who fucked up and that everyone who isn't his mother will tell you the same thing. That's why he keeps telling you not to tell a therapist or your friends because he knows that they'll take your side and tell you to follow your gut and dump him.
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        [–]Apollo13Creed 5 points6 points7 points  (3 children)
        It's not crazy to feel like you do. I read an article about five years ago that talked about this very thing. Thousands of years of evolution had conditioned women to be attracted to men that make them feel secure and safe. It goes back to a time when women depended on a man to protect them from attack both human and animal alike. As far as we've come with gender equality, for better or worse depending on who you ask, thousands of years of evolution won't just go away in twenty years. The article I read, mentioned a girl who was camping with her new-ish boyfriend when a bear entered the camp site. He was scared to death and started crying and she lost all respect for him and dumped him because she didn't feel secure that in a life or death situation she could depend on him.
        Up to you OP...I'd be embarrassed to have acted like him but not everyone is me. I don't think what he did was right, I would stop short of saying it's wrong, but it would be understandable if you wanted to move on from him after this incident went down like this.
        edited to add: If you do decide to stay with him...might I suggest some therapy and some boxing or MMA classes to help improve his confidence.
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        [–]attackjackalope 6 points7 points8 points  (2 children)
        I actually was musing I might recommend martial arts or at least some self defense -- but for OP. After being left alone in a dangerous situation, it might be psychologically important for her to practice facing and assessing physical threats calmly in situations where she's basically alone. Something like boxing or MMA would be great for that. She can't control how other people, her fiancé included, respond to threats, or if he chooses to acknowledge his "flight" response and what it means. But she can build mental composure re: having faced this situation by working on her own personal preparedness and self-confidence in the face of a physical threat -- a good, practical martial arts discipline will emphasize things like breathing and staying calm and composed even when things get scary. No matter what happens with the fiancé, that would be good for OP, I think.
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        [–]k9centipede 4 points5 points6 points  (1 child)
        How far did he run? Like, coward run til he ran out of breath, or just far enough to be safe to start calling the cops? How much searching did he have to do to find you? If he just went far enough away to start calling the cops, and was able to find you just by catching up to you after you left, that would be pretty practical.
        This post does make me realize I should have a talk with the husband about how to react in such situation. We have slight experience, where an ex came up to us with a knife wanting to threaten him. I was able to talk him down and get him to leave. Husband stayed close enough to keep an eye on me. But I'd rather him go get police help than try and interfere in such a situation.
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        [–]IllNeverGetAway 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
        The cops came in under 10 minutes, so he must have called relatively quickly depending on the response time. He says just a block. Those are obviously estimates from them, but he came back and looked for her and found her, so it can't have been that far or that long.
        I don't see it as a 'panic' reaction. He did make a decision to bolt, but it wasn't some kind of panic mode where he run ran as far as he could go.
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        [–]the-mortyest-morty 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
        I'm sorry but this is so fucked up. Blame adrenaline all you want, but in any moment of danger my first thought I'd about my SOs safety. So .. think about that.
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        [–]antizana 12 points13 points14 points  (1 child)
        I've been mugged twice, once with a gun and once with a knife. The first time was with a gun and I was in a group (I was the only woman). For some reason someone started running and then everyone ran, including me, wondering if I was getting a bullet in the back but unwilling to be the only one left standing around with the psycho with the gun (who was probably high, at least enough to take on 5 guys and a girl). The second time, two guys with a knife. I am telling these stories for the following reasons:
        • Running from a mugging is stupid as shit, and is as likely as not to provoke a violent reaction from the mugger. ETA: and sometimes running spooks the mugger and they take off. Happened to me as well, but that doesn't make it an advisable course.
        • Defending yourself or someone else from a mugger should only be attempted if you have some idea of what you are doing, i.e. hand to hand combat experience and/or experience with knife fights. Barring that, I don't see what you think your BF would have accomplished by "defending" you other than getting himself stabbed.
        • Stastically, muggings are more likely to involve actual violence or deadly force if the victim is male, compared to female, because men are perceived as a "threat" to be neutralized.
        • Advice from actual security consultants is to just give up your stuff because it's not worth dying over. How likely you are to actually get stabbed/shot depends on the country, area, and the mugger, and my experience is also based on living in countries with high violent crime rates which is not the same everywhere.
        • Going back to my story, no one knows how they will react in this kind of situation until they are actually in it. In the first incident, even though I know I should not run, it made sense to me in the moment and that's what I did. Luckily I and my friends are fine, but I also know of someone stabbed to death with a screwdriver for her laptop, so I can't say that it's a universal outcome.
          It seems like you have this idea that "your man" didn't defend you the way you wanted. And that's fine that you feel that way. However I don't agree that he did something wrong, and disagree with the concept that he should be a meat shield just because he is male, and I want to point out that there isn't really a "right" or a "wrong" way to act in a mugging, because there are lots of different factors.
        If your boyfriend had stuck around, would it have lead to a better outcome? Worst case, he or you get stabbed because 2 vs 2 is bad odds for them. More likely case, both of you get your stuff stolen. That doesn't sound like an improvement on the current situation. Unlikely but best case, nothing gets stolen. But keep in mind they were willing to attack you both, so the mere presence of your BF did not dissuade them, so he would likely have had to have some kind of a fight with them to change it. Unless he has knife fight experience, that's just plain stupid.
        In your case, both you and your BF are alive and well, so I suggest you focus on the part where neither of you have stab wounds, learn from the experience (could you have reacted differently? Was walking home in that area a good idea?) and move on with your lives. Anyone who comments you can say, "wait till you get mugged and we'll see how YOU react."
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        [–]illinoiscentralst 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
        Let's say OP's fiance was carrying $1000 on him along with his ID and his iPhone 7. Would it be worth it to give up all that in return for his fiancee not feeling abandoned by the person closest to her, losing love and respect for him, and affirming the sense of solidarity which is the basis of a relationship?
        I'd say it'd be worth it. Money is just money. Stuff is just stuff. You get a new ID. Being there for your partner in really tough situations however, having them feel safe with you, on one team with you, not abandoned by you, is irreplaceable. You can't buy that. You can't put in a couple more hours at work and restore it. It's unique and not easy to recover.
        Then again maybe the muggers weren't only after their money, in which case he did help the situation, but it's very likely that surrendering their stuff would be all that would happen.
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        [–]tiffanydisasterxoxo 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
        Honestly, if I wanted to stay with him we'd need couselling. Him running could have spooked them into killing you or kidnapping you and they would have had a 15 minutes head start. He was not thinking about you when he ran
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        [–]fragilespleen 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
        When I was a teenager, I was with 5 or so of my friends and we got approached my a similar amount of other guys looking for a fight, we all ran, but I managed to lose my friends and hide. I still feel horrible about abandoning them even though none of us came to any harm.
        Like others have said, I would be more worried by the fact he insists it was the right move and can't understand why you might not agree (but don't tell anyone else because they won't understand). I think he's lying to himself rather than facing the reality of abandoning someone he cares about when the pressure is on.
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        [–]Bad_brahmin 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
        He doesn't want you telling anyone what really happened even when he's proud about what he did. That shit doesn't make sense.
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        [–]she-huulk 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
        The line about him not wanting you to tell people the full story, as well as the same reasoning for a therapist leads me to believe he feels, deep down, that he did the "wrong" thing. In the end, turns out the things he did were good and productive and thankfully you weren't harmed, so he's trying to mask being ashamed by saying "but see! I did the right thing! Everything turned out OK so you can't be mad!" instead of just saying "honey, I am so so sorry I left you - my instincts told me to run and call the cops and so I did. I wish I had reacted differently to make you feel safe, but I'm glad that we are both safe and together now". If I were you I think that's all I would have needed/wanted from him.
        It's not the fact that he left you in the situation that was the bad part.....it's the fact that he's being SO stubborn out of embarrassment that he's not willing to put aside his ego and apologize, or at the least, recognize your feelings.
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        [–]RikerOmega3 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
        I think the reality of this situation is that in all things, he will always see his well being as more important than yours.
        He gambled with your life and made you his meat shield...and he did it for his own benefit. You didn't choose to protect him, he made that decision for you.
        He asked you not to tell people what happened, because it benefits him. He knows he seriously fucked up, and he is trying to sweep it under the rug.
        He is completely disregarding your feelings on the matter because admitting to himself that he acted cowardly would do damage to him...but he is fine with doing damage to the relationship.
        This man's default setting is to run and manipulate people into accepting his responses. All things considered, I think its time for you to seriously re-evaluate his long term potential.
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        [–]Juliuscesear1990 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
        The fight or flight response is very strong, and our primal brains take over. The flight response although it seems cowardly is the reason we are here today, our Neanderthal brothers would either here or see something, the ones who fought died and the ones who ran lived another day. Don't be mad at your SO because his response to danger doesn't confirm with the norm today.
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        [–]Advicethrowwwww 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
        In response to fear people either fight or run. I do not fault theguy for running. He is only human. But i personally would not be able to stay with y so if that happened. Maybe me being a rape victim made me more sensitive. Honestly its up to you. Your feelimgs matter and are valid and i would feel the same way. You cannot undo what happened so if you do decide to end it, just be kind. Dot guilte him too much for being human and have survival instincts
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