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THE nightmare Phenazepam experience to end them all
"I lost days, weeks to the benzo. Apparently, I traded my would-be girlfriend in bed to our fifty year old dealer for a dime of meth. I don't remember doing it, I don't remember any of it, I thought the guy wouldn't go through with it. I begged him not to do it. I attempted suicide after being told the deal I had made. This was back in March. Just now I have found out that it happened. He fucked her.
"Things are clearer now. Now I can see why she doesn't cuddle with me anymore. Now I can see why she acts so differently with me now. She says she doesn't hate me, but I can't see how she could not. I hate myself, now more than ever. I don't remember any of this deal with the devil, but that doesn't excuse anything.
"She has finally told me; she said she at first planned on never telling me and told the guy to never under any circumstances to let me in on it. I just called this guy and he said, "Hell naw, but I would tear that pussy up if she put it up." Or something to that effect. At first I was relieved that he didn't, then I realized that this girl wouldn't joke around about that. She just told me this literally ten minutes ago. I hate myself soo goddamn much right now.
"And I'm fairly experienced with benzos, I take 900mg of temazepam along with 15 mg of clonazepam and can still remember the night. I thought phenazepam was great at first, but then I started to black out. I didn't show this substance the respect it deserves. More importantly, I acted like a drug freak and showed no control or any semblance of morals. I don't know how, if I could ever make it up to this girl. I want to beat the shit out of this guy, but he is pretty ghetto and always carries a gun. I always said that 'the only thing worse than a pig is a narc', but right now I want to call the cops on this guy.
"I want this to be a bad dream. I wish I had succeeded in killing myself. If it would make her feel any better, I would off myself. Things will never be the same. I don't know how I could ever look myself in the mirror.
"Please be careful with phenazepam, it's no joke, it's as strong as you think and takes a while to take effect so you take more and more until you black out.
"As far as I'm concerned, I let him rape her. I love her. She said she did it because she was afraid because the guy knew where our houses were. I said he wouldn't do anything. I didn't think the situation was serious because it sounded too extreme to be true.
"I am lower than shit. I can't believe I agreed to that. There's no way I would have done that if I wasn't in a complete blackout. I don't know what I'm going to do, but please, respect this substance."
-Swim
ps Swim is going to have to learn to live with himself. Or not.
Re: THE nightmare Phenazepam experience to end them all
Phenazepam is the worst drug I have ever used. It's what we call a Soviet Benzo. Everytime I take it the first effect is that I black out. I literally can't remember a single thing that happened during any of my time under the influence of phenazepam. And it lasts well into the next day.
Re: THE nightmare Phenazepam experience to end them all
During the week of 13th April 2010, my partner started experimenting with phenazepam. By the 20th of April, he'd attempted suicide twice, been sectioned twice, and arrested and accepted a caution for assualt (on me).
We have been together 12 years, have 2 children, and were due to be married this summer.
My partner went from a super intelligent guy, to a vegetable in less than a month. He speaks like Barney Gumble. He can't tie his shoe laces, he can't drive, he doesn't know what day of the week it is, he can't count. He remembers very little of what happened. The doctors say he is 'cognitivley impaired' and has to have a CT scan next week to see if there is any permanent damage to his brain.
He is now being treated for depression after the suicide attempts, and slowly being withdrawn from benzos with the help of a local drug addiction clinic.
He is still partly in denial about what has happened. He is paranoid, and claims I am 'controlling' him. I have to control his access to his pills because he can't count them, and can't remember what he's already taken. Now he cannot work, and I am working reduced hours from stress, and because he needs constant care. He falls over in the bath, and down the stairs.
He is very lucky he has a loving family and freinds around, but after a month of hell, I can't cope. I can't sleep and have lost half a stone in wight. I've just sent him to his parents for a few days so i can get some respite.
I don't know what the future holds for us. The wedding is off. I may never get my partner back. My children may lose their father, and we may lose the house.
I am happy he isn't actually dead from the suicide attempts. I feel sorry for him, but also incredibly angry - Mr 'I-know-everything-about-drugs' fucked himself up completley, and may have fucked up the lives of at least 3 other people. How could he have been so, so so, stupid? So arrogant? So blind?
I may forgive him, and he may recover, and we may get our lives back - albeit changed - but nobody knows for sure. The alternatives are pretty bleak, and I am staring them straight in the face. It's like looking into a roaring abyys.
Phenazepam did this.
In the words of the demotivators poster, 'Leaders: Sometimes your only purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.'
Re: THE nightmare Phenazepam experience to end them all
Phenaz is shite. One doesn't even need to go overboard with it to become so. SWIM took around 1mg last night at 9pm. He didn't feel anything so he took another mg. Feels like ativan at that point. That is the last thing he remembers. He woke at 3pm the next day to a house that was utterly wrecked. A big pot on the stove that he dumped all his botanicals in to including .5oz kava extract. I guess he was trying to make a entheo superstew or something... Not sure if he shut it off or if the wife did this morning... In looking in the fridge is sems he went through a bunch of tequila as well. HE REMEMBERS NOTHING PAST 10pm. This stuff is GARBAGE! It is now 3:15pm the next day and he feels like shit.
STAY AWAY UNLESS YOU WANT TO B:ACK OUT AND ACT LIKE A DUMBASS!
Re: THE nightmare Phenazepam experience to end them all
A less angry Aleksander reads these posts again and accepts there are risks in everything we do as humans. More so in thrill seeking, rich western humans with the education, curiosity and opportunity to choose to do 'stuff' for fun (rather than for food or warmth). Skydiving can end badly, so can horse riding, or even cycling. There is going to be bad outcomes in every endeavor. I suppose the thing that is different about research chemicals is that currently there is a barrier to entry - you have to be covert, resourceful, active, tenacious to even find out about these items, then get your supply. Most people who even lurk here are experienced with chemicals. I think in our case, this bred a sense of over-confidence and superiority in my partner. He thought he knew what he was doing. He thought he could take the tiger by it's tail. Funny enough, of the two of us, I'm the one with a (basic) scientific and biological education. I choose to get my facts from peer reviewed and fully identifiable sources, not trip reports and 'my mates cat one tried to beak a lawnmower'. I think, although harm reduction is an important part of the messages on drugs-forum, the very nature of internet forums allows uncorroborated, unvalidated, sock-puppeting to be very easily presented to the uneducated as 'fact' by 'people in the know' (actually hiding - exactly as i am - behind a cute pseudonym). My beloved is now thinking in such a completely off-kilter way, that because he likes his addiction clinic psychologist, and thinks he's wise, therefore his psych MUST be a contributor in this forum, and therefore the forum represents FACT! Like a good accountant, 2+2 equals 4. Like a great accountant, 2+2 = whatever you want it to equal - at least in his present state of mind. Anyone who's had an unexpected accident during a recreational activity gets a nasty shock. As my 11 year old says to my partner - "Dad, once is an accident, twice is unfortunate, but 3 times? That is stupid"... hopefully some people will read and learn from our mistakes - and not find out the hard way for themselves Feel for you dr. gonzo - and your lady. On the positive side, you're both still alive - you can spend the rest of your life making it up to her, and maybe achieve something for you both that you wouldn't have done before the phenazepam accident. Life goes on. Live it.
Re: THE nightmare Phenazepam experience to end them all
There are at least two serious problems with this drug. The first, of course, is the very small doses required and the difficulty in accurately measuring out these tiny amounts from a sample of powder. This has already been mentioned in other posts on this site. If someone is determined to take phenazepam then it seems the best way of obtaining a proper dose is to dissolve the powder then take a measured portion of the resulting solution and dilute that, maybe doing this several times, to get a small enough amount in solution. After taking it, it would seem extremely wise to wait at least several hours to make sure it has been fully absorbed, before thinking that more needs to be taken to have an effect.
The second problem is something that many users may think a lot less about. This is the very long half-life of phenazepam, which swim believes to be around 60 hours/2.5 days. This means that taking an amount of phenazepam that is sufficient to produce effects the first time will result in massive accumulation of the drug in the body and brain if this amount (or even a smaller amount) is taken again on subsequent days. Even just one dose per day will cause an enormous amount of phenazepam to build up, and once this happens, it will take a long time (many days or even weeks) for it to be cleared from the user's system. Such enormous drug accumulation could easily result in a long-lasting sedated delirium that could resemble dementia or psychiatric illness. This effect has been reported for medically-prescribed benzos in one doctor-authored drug handbook, in elderly patients who can't metabolise drugs as quickly as younger people. Even a medical dose of the hypnotic benzo nitrazepam was reported as causing a state of dementia-like delirium in an otherwise normal patient, and this persisted until the drug was ceased and allowed to clear from their body. The same effect seems likely in people of any age when taking a benzo with such a long half life as phenazepam.
It is to be hoped that the person mentioned in the above posts may gradually return to a clearer state of mind. Others thinking of taking this drug should realise that this sort of accumulation is likely to happen to anyone who uses it more than once...even if you do manage to get the dose right.
Re: THE nightmare Phenazepam experience to end them all
Hi Troppo - you're absolutley right.
My partner started out disolving the phenazepam in alcohol, but quickly lost control and (unbeknown to me) was eventually snorting eye-balled amounts daily for about 2 weeks.
Of course, he barely remembers any of that.
Thanks for the info on the dementia-like behaviour - that would certainly fir the sysmptoms he's showing. I hope you're right about him improving as the benzos clear his sytem, but he's now on a slow withdrawl, so he's actually being given diazepam daily by the addiciton clinic. Do you think this will slow up his recovery? He hasn't been taking benzos for long - since 22 feb accourding to our bank/paypal statements - should I mention this to his doctor? Do you have that reference handy at all?
Re: THE nightmare Phenazepam experience to end them all
Hi Alexsander,
As you realise, your partner would have ended up ingesting a lot more phenazepam by snorting eye-balled amounts than he probably would have if measuring it out.
I have read accounts of dementia-like behaviour from sedatives, including benzos, in several sources over the years. Quite a few sources have been books rather than online info, and most of those books would be quite old now (eg. 1980's, 1990's). One source, which includes the nitrazepam example I gave, is: A Primer of Drug Action, 7th edition (1995) Robert M. Julien, M.D., Ph.D. Publisher : W.H. Freeman and Company pages 81-87
One of the statements by the author is "Common acute side effects in benzodiazepine therapy are dose-related extensions of the intended actions. These include sedation, drowsiness, ataxia, lethargy, mental confusion, disorientation, slurred speech, amnesia, and induction or extension of the symptoms of dementia. At higher doses, impairments of mental and psychomotor function dominate." With phenazepam, "acute" could mean quite a long time, due to its long half-life.
I am unable to post replies with links at the moment, since I have less than 50 posts on this site, but the 60-hour half-life of phenazepam is given by Pubmed article 7173273. This article also states that it can take 4 hours for the drug to reach peak concentration after being taken, which is probably why some users keep taking more while waiting for the initial dose to take effect.
The actual mathematical formula to work out how much of a long-acting drug accumulates in a person's system is complex but it seems likely that a fairly accurate estimate could be found by working out how much is left each 24 hours after taking a dose, then adding these 'left over' amounts. The amount in the system following complete absorption of one dose is given by:
Remaining amount = Initial amount * 0.5^(hours after dose/half life in hours) which is a formula given in the Wikipedia article called Half-life.
If the calculation is done, then for a 1 mg. dose, after each 24 hour period these amounts would remain in the person's body : 0.76, 0.57, 0.44, 0.33, 0.25, 0.19, 0.14, and so on. If 1 mg was taken once every 24 hours, the total amount in the person, immediately after absorption of each dose, would be the following (rounded off) : 1.8, 2.3, 2.8, 3.1, 3.3, 3.5, 3.7, and so on. As can be seen, just taking 1 mg every day can lead to several times that amount circulating in the system!
As for your partner's treatment, this has to ultimately be in the hands of his treating doctor, but you certainly should mention anything you feel is relevant. This would include how long he has been taking benzos. Diazepam is the standard treatment for tapering a dependent person off benzos, but if your partner isn't actually dependent then maybe the doctor could rethink this. Phenazepam's very long action would also mean that its levels would gradually fall, which could make diazepam less necessary. Again, this is something the doctor has to take into account. Because phenazepam is not one of the standard benzos prescribed in 'Western' countries, and because the amounts taken by users are so unknown, doctors may automatically choose treatment with diazepam whether it is needed or not.
Re: THE nightmare Phenazepam experience to end them all
Thank you Troppo - that helps a lot. He's seeing the psych on Tuesday so I'll bring this up with them then. Maybe there is some light at the end of the tunnel....
Re: THE nightmare Phenazepam experience to end them all
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troppo
I am unable to post replies with links at the moment, since I have less than 50 posts on this site, but the 60-hour half-life of phenazepam is given by Pubmed article 7173273.
Here is the pubmed article you mentioned:
hxxp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=DetailsSearch&term=7173273[uid]
Just replace the hxxp with http.
A friendly reminder not to link directly to . gov sites
Re: THE nightmare Phenazepam experience to end them all
Thanks Bananaskin, just to add detail for completness, the only accurate info I have regarding dosing is that my partner had 1000mg of Phenazepam, which lasted him 2 weeks, plus 100 tablets that where white, loose - and purporting to be diazepam - (bought from some 'bloke' online).
In reality, what any of these powders and pills were is quite honestly completley unknown.
If what he *thinks* he bought was really what he *actually* bought, then he was taking between 100-150mg Diaz, plus 85-100mg Phenaz per day for 2 weeks. He only got caught out when he tried to 'palm' a new delivery when I was present... Thankfully he was too stupid/off his face to actually hide his new stash all that effectivley...
The build up of effects Troppo demonstrated fits the patern I saw, but interestingly, when we finally got to A&E after his souce was stopped sudenly, because I was concerned that he was going to hit withdrawl (although actually he was in far greater danger at that point of being bludgeoned to death by me), when the docs gave him 30mg of diazepam, he was considerably worse in terms of falling, short term memory loss, slurring, innapropriate behaviour, etc.
It could have been the build up of phenazepam over the previuous 2 weeks, or possibly that although he thought he was taking massive doses, actually, he wasn't.
My beloved was full of crap - "It's so cheap to make, why would anyone bother to cut it?" to which the Doc replied, "If it's so cheap to make, why would anyone bother to have ensure any quality control over it?".
The report came thourgh today re: his admittance - he had ataxia (gait abnormality) and nystagmus (eye movements) beyond what they consider 'normal' for benzo intoxication - hence the CT scan and also now also a MRI scan next week. I suppose they're looking for a reduction in grey matter that would indicate early onset Altzheimers (Which his gran suffered from) or other dementia type problems.
Hopefully it is as Troppo says - induced by the benzos.
If not - well - I have a 39 year old who is going to spend the rest of his life with no control over what he does, where he goes, or what he puts into his body.
And I will spend the rest of my life counting pills, driving him to appointments, doing all the domestic chores, caring for the childen, holding down a job, and explaining to friends and family what went wrong.
Fun, eh?
I'll let you know what happens after the tests etc.
I do appreciate the info and support here. Thank you all.
:0)
Re: THE nightmare Phenazepam experience to end them all
To give phenazepam some credit, someone else who isn't me reports that it relieves her back pain caused by muscle tension without any loss of memory. Something that isn't your mileage may indeed vary. Hopefully SWI Aleksander's friend will recover when his body has eliminated it and had some chance to restore itself.
Re: THE nightmare Phenazepam experience to end them all
I only have one question. Why the fuck is this stuff still around if people black out for days and sell their girlfriends and tear shit up and all that shit. I feel like i'm 10 years old again reading the horror propaganda of coke and meth. except this has legitimacy behind it. wtf.
Re: THE nightmare Phenazepam experience to end them all
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demosthysias
I only have one question. Why the fuck is this stuff still around if people black out for days and sell their girlfriends and tear shit up and all that shit. I feel like i'm 10 years old again reading the horror propaganda of coke and meth. except this has legitimacy behind it. wtf.
Honest reason, because big pharma gets some big $$ out of this stuff being prescribed.
Take for example, some of Pharma's actions over the years: Heroin invented/sold as a non-addictive substitute for morphine
Barbituates invented as a non-addictive, non abusable substitute for heroin/opiates Benzodiazepines invented as a non-addictive, non-abusable substitute for barbituates
Z-drugs (zolpidem/ambien, zopiclone, eszopiclone) were invented as non-abusable, non-addictive substitutes for benzos
These medicines were all prescribed as sleep aids, by the way. Swim doesn't know if the Z-drugs have been shown to exhibit addictive properties (they do cause rebound insomnia, which imo links it to at least some level of dependence), but swim can personally vouch for zolpidem being abusable.
Benzodiazepines have some horrible side effects, addiction and dependency problems, and terrible withdrawals. They've been shown to be damaging to developing fetuses, just like alcohol (in fact benzos and alcohol act similarly on certain neurotransmitter pathways like GABA)
Marijuana does none of these things, can potentially help with some of the common problems benzos are prescribed for it too acts as a sleep-inducer, muscle-relaxant, and pain reliever. But without the addiction/dependence problems, a lesser degree of disinhibition/coordination loss, and no risk of coma/death by overdose. But the pharmaceutical industry cannot make a penny off of marijuana (however, they can make $$ off of dronabinol/marinol, the synthetic, toxic, potentially lethal cousin of marijuana) and so weed, the possibly safest psychoactive substance known to man, stays illegal while people are left with much better, FDA Approved drugs like Marinol and Phenazepam.
Follow the money and the lobbyists, it explains a lot. Hell, at least phenazepam actually has some accepted medical use, unlike cigarettes which remain legal despite doing nothing but killing you slowly.
Re: THE nightmare Phenazepam experience to end them all
I really like the way that all just flowed and made sense. I have always heired on the side of any drug can be beneficial if used correctly or responsibly, even when used recreationally, but this one sounds like something that you should really do your extra homework on before dabbling in it.
Re: THE nightmare Phenazepam experience to end them all
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demosthysias
I only have one question. Why the fuck is this stuff still around if people black out for days and sell their girlfriends and tear shit up and all that shit. I feel like i'm 10 years old again reading the horror propaganda of coke and meth. except this has legitimacy behind it. wtf.
If im REALLY honest (and i hope im wrong about this) then,as an ex heroin and benzo user SWIM thinks if word got out to those same people who still use then there could be an explosion and deaths because for some reason every heroin user SWIM has ever known all loved benzos,including SWIM.For example does this sound like fun? SWIM took a handful of Nitrazepam then went to a supermarket toilet to inject heroin,this was late moning,he must have blacked out because when he came to the supermarket was closed,he was locked in and had to dial 999 and explain why he was there.That was what SWIM classed as worth his cash.Its something about oblivion.Lets hope this doesnt get out to heroin and bad benzo users
Oh and sorry i read your post wrong,you asked WHY is it still around? I wish i knew,i guess because its relativly unknown to the people i mentioned before compared to diazepam,nitrazepam and temazepam
barafundle added 3 Minutes and 42 Seconds later...
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeDummy
Honest reason, because big pharma gets some big $$ out of this stuff being prescribed.
This is all by the pharm companies:
Heroin invented/sold as a non-addictive substitute for morphine
Barbituates invented as a non-addictive, non abusable substitute for heroin/opiates Benzodiazepines invented as a non-addictive, non-abusable substitute for barbituates
Z-drugs (zolpidem/ambien, zopiclone, eszopiclone) were invented as non-abusable, non-addictive substitutes for benzos
These medicines were all prescribed as sleep aids, by the way. Swim doesn't know if the Z-drugs have been shown to exhibit addictive properties (they do cause rebound insomnia, which imo links it to at least some level of dependence), but swim can personally vouch for zolpidem being abusable.
Benzodiazepines have some horrible, side effects, as well as addiction, dependency problems, and terrible withdrawals. They've been shown to be damaging to developing fetuses, just like alcohol (in fact benzos and alcohol act similarly on certain neurotransmitter pathways like GABA)
Marijuana does none of these things, can potentially help with some of the common problems benzos are prescribed for it too acts as a sleep-inducer, muscle-relaxant, and pain reliever. But without the addiction/dependence problems, a lesser degree of disinhibition/coordination loss, and no risk of coma/death by overdose. But the pharmaceutical industry cannot make a penny off of marijuana (however, they can make $$ off of dronabinol/marinol, the synthetic, toxic, potentially lethal cousin of marijuana) and so weed, the possibly safest psychoactive substance known to man, stays illegal while people are left with much better, FDA Approved drugs like Marinol and Phenazepam.
Follow the money and the lobbyists, it explains a lot. Hell, at least phenazepam actually has some accepted medical use, unlike cigarettes which remain legal despite doing nothing but killing you slowly.
I agree wholeheartedly with the addiction thing.I was a bad benzo user in my time and developed epilepsy because of it-this is a benzo so do the math However i agree with the marijuana point,people would need to be screened and monitored WELL as the suseptability so some people in paranoina and nervousness is great.SWIM thinks pot damaged that side of his brain in 5yrs smoking that 10yrs injecting heroin
barafundle added 5 Minutes and 57 Seconds later...
Quote:
Originally Posted by barafundle
i just wonder if anyone else has heard of the liquid 1ml/1mg bottles before? All reports i read seem to be about powder and as SWIM has actually touched the bottle yet (so doesnt know if it is whats meant to be and doesnt want to touch it unless others have heard or touched it).If it is what its stated to be this seems much safer a way to dose than powder.
Apologies,where should this go then? I like to stay by the rules as i find this site invaluble
Last edited by barafundle; 30-05-2010 at 02:19.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Re: THE nightmare Phenazepam experience to end them all
"I still can't look at my reflection in the eye without wanting to break the mirror and I haven't been able to write in my journal since I learned about the incident. I honestly don't know why she went through with it, when I learned about it, it was a life changing shock. Ten dollars of meth.. I would have paid him back tenfold. I would have let him have his way with me, even though I'm not gay, I would do anything for this girl. When I told her she shouldn't have done it, she said she did it to protect our families because this guy knew where we lived. I said he wouldn't have done shit, not for ten dollars, all she had to do was stop going through this guy. But she continued to go through him, I guess she likes her coke too much.
"For almost two weeks after she told me about it, she wouldn't answer my calls or respond to letters I wrote. The last thing I had said to her before those two weeks was, 'Do you think you could ever forgive me?' as I was driving her home from picking up some crack. Then she told me never to bring it up again and told me to pull over. I did, and she jumped out of the car, slamming the door behind her. She was about twenty minutes on foot from her house, so I got out and asked her to get back in the car. She said she wanted to walk. So I asked again, 'Is there anyway that you could maybe forgive me someday?' She said nothing and kept walking. She got close to her house and I had to stop following, her family probably hates me and rightfully so. Not only am I the one who 'got her on the needle' and gave her a criminal record, but what they don't know is that what I've done has destined me for hell. I'm an atheist, but right now I'm in hell.
"She now talks to me again and I can have a good time with her but I can't bring up the incident even to apologize about it. She told me never to tell anyone so I feel guilty even writing it here.. but not being able to talk about it has been driving me crazy. I never used to cry but now it's a daily thing for me. If I ever show emotion around her, she'll either hang up on me or walk away. She brings up the incident fairly often, and I just have to let her vent because if I try to say anything she gets pissed at me, even though I only try to apologize and say I wish there was some way to make it up to her.
"Now whenever I do benzos or drink, she stays away from me. She doesn't do H anymore which I'm so goddamn happy about, but she does a lot of coke/crack. We used to split out money down the middle to get messed up together, but lately I've found myself just making the journey, the wait, and paying for her to get her shot of white. And I like the coke rush and the tin train approaching feeling very much, but I can't afford to stay well on opiates, get her high, and buy any crack for myself.
"But I digress.. It was my birthday on the 2nd, and she took me to the movies which surprised me; it was the only birthday present I got. I was on my entire prescription of klonopin (my script never lasts more than a day), some H and booze. I was able to get her smiling and laughing even though the movie kind of sucked, and just seeing her smiling felt like the weight of the world was lifted off my shoulders. However, on the ride home, she decided to tell me some things about the incident.. She told me the exact day it happened; a day before I tried to kill myself. I wondered why she didn't visit me in the hospital, and I finally got my answer. I also wondered why my best friend for over a decade, Carl, didn't visit me. I tried to commit suicide because I figured if I was dead, there is no way this asshole drug dealer would try to snake his way into the pants of a dead man's girlfriend. But I guess I was a day late, and my brother found me bleeding on the floor, so now I have six grizzly scars over arteries to constantly remind me of how I had the world, but I lost it because I didn't show phenazepam as much respect as it requires. I still haven't talked to my best friend Carl, he didn't even answer my call on my birthday, which is very unusual for him. I had never gone this long with my best friend avoiding me and my phone calls. Again, I finally got an explanation on my birthday. She told me that she had to go to someone for advice, and she went to my best friend. This made my heart sink. She asked him what to do, and he said, "I guess you have to take one for the team."
"I couldn't believe it. I still can't. My best friend abandoned me, gave terrible advice (I'm sorry, but 'take one for the team' is insane. I don't want to believe he said that.), and if there is one person I absolutely did not want to find out about the evil I had done, it was him. Now I'm guessing he doesn't consider me a friend. He warned me about the phenazepam when I started fucking around with it because I explained to him it's almost completely pure and close to xanax as far as mg for mg strength and close to valium as far as effects.
"So I dropped the girl off at her house, tears streaming down my face, but for the first time in weeks, she hugs me. It felt great, but i couldn't help but break down on her shoulder. I missed her embrace so much, and I knew this was basically my birthday present, a one off. Things would never be the same.
"I had insomnia before, but this whole episode has made it even worse. The only way I can sleep these days is if I drink myself or cry myself to sleep, and if I ever remember my dreams, they're always about her.
"I feel broken. I'm a different person. I carry myself differently, I'm not as funny as I used to be, I even feel less intelligent (though that probably has to do with 1. totaling a car by running into a tree stump at fifty miles an hour without a seatbelt nor the airbag deploying for some reason, and 2. getting beaten nearly to death by four cats as I was riding my bike late at night to this girl's house to deliver some H because I was living at her house at the time and she asked me to). But every obstacle or misfortune I've met this year I feel is my atonement, no, my attrition for the despicable thing I don't remember doing.
"Again, please respect this drug, do your homework, be careful, then do your homework again before fucking around with phenazepam. I still mess around with it because I try to do anything that can put me into a stupor so I don't have to constantly think about how I offered up such a beautiful person on a silver platter to be raped. She's the first person I said those three lil' words to, and I think she might've felt slightly the same way, but not anymore. I don't see how she can't hate me. I love her, and I'm so goddamn sorry, it makes me sick everyday. 'You always hurt the one you love,' I guess, but not this much. I'm disgusted with myself. I'm still waiting to wake up from this nightmare, but every day it becomes more apparent that this isn't a dream, I'm just that much of junkie, burnout, all around druggie. I've told one person, this girl Lauren, and she says I beat myself up too much and that the girl is kind of using what happened to use me-like an ace up her sleeve. But I have to disagree, I deserve it all and more. I hate myself so much now. I'm sorry this is such a long post, but this is the first time I've written about it since that last post."
Re: THE nightmare Phenazepam experience to end them all
I have some advise which is don't let your emotions get the best of you. There are more girls out there and probably better friends. Though selling your girl out for some meth is pretty low I think you're taking it to personally on yourself.
You can't do anything about it was the past so just deal with it. Honestly it could of been worst at least you didn't beat her or rape her.
Re: THE nightmare Phenazepam experience to end them all
Demostyhysias: " I only have one question. Why the fuck is this stuff still around if people black out for days and sell their girlfriends and tear shit up and all that shit. I feel like i'm 10 years old again reading the horror propaganda of coke and meth. except this has legitimacy behind it. wtf."
Jack (swim): "As much as I would like to blame the drug or shift the blame away from myself in some way, I can't. I have to carry the burden every minute of every day, I can't blame anyone or anything but myself. But I went into the fray of phenazepam knowing the dangers of benzo abuse, and perhaps I was too cocky.. I've had my fair share of embarrassing benzo experiences and thought I'd paid my dues enough to handle this legal one. I guess I didn't take into account my gluttonous drug consumption -especially when I'm blacked out."
Shroom Eater: "You can't do anything about it was the past so just deal with it. Honestly it could of been worst at least you didn't beat her or rape her."
Jack: "But it feels like I've done the moral equivalent. I admit that I've been very emotional lately, anxiety attacks have become a daily obstacle for me, but considering the harm I've caused, I suppose the punishment is more than deserved."
Enquirewithin: "Interesting story, but any GF that SWIM has been involved in would not have agreed to be sold! I can't believe that she allowed it!"
Jack: "Neither can I."
"Before I learned about all this, I thought I had hit rock bottom, I thought I was recovering from a nervous breakdown, it has been a hard year to put it simply. But what I thought was a hard granite rock bottom has turned out to be a trap door, and now I'm plummeting again, though I believe bottom is in sight. It's not the hard flat bottom where I thought I couldn't get any lower, it's jagged rock that looks like it will leave me emotionally crippled at the least. And it looks like it's too late to save me from hitting my jagged bottom, I have too much momentum now. (sorry for silly metaphors, Jack is drinking the last glass of a 1.5 liter bottle of wine because he was having a panic attack).
"Although I can't blame the phenazepam, I believe that drugs have the ability to bring out the best and worst in people, I still want to warn people -especially the benzo naive- that this drug is the real deal, don't let it's semi-legality fool you; phenazepam is a strong bastard that will, if you give it the chance, knock you out and leave you wondering what happened. I had two aunts die within two weeks, totaled a car and probably concussed and possibly damaged my brain, got kicked out of two houses and was left homeless after the second and living on the streets and begging for drug money, been disowned by my old school madre, and was beaten nearly to death by four wannabe cholos that stole my wallet, bike, phone, and blazer (i loved that coat ya fucks), all within about a year.. and after all that when I thought I had hit bottom, it took this drug for me to learn that my bottom had not been reached. And the worst part may be that I don't remember any of it, I only have second hand information; so it's like hearing the most soul draining and depressing story I've ever heard. Anyway, please be careful, if anyone is still reading and subsequently takes even a little more care when experimenting with this drug, then my plight will be slightly lessened."
Re: THE nightmare Phenazepam experience to end them all
It sounds like SWIY is on quite the downward spiral. Any relationship even party based around using drugs as purely a means without an end is bound to suffer for it in some way. SWIMS opinion is that SWIYS emotional state at the moment is being continued through use of the same drugs and a same daily behaviour pattern. Try taking SWIYS girlfriend somewhere new, a natural setting maybe? Eat some psychedelic & stay off the booze, benzos and other mind numbing depressives, at least for a while. Take a fresh breath (metaphorically) make a few small changes, do some introspection (not the same thing as constantly blaming the self). Learn yourself, and slowly try to change to conquer that part of you which you don't like. It's all up to SWIY, and SWIM knows it's been said before and taken lightly by most but it really doesn't help to constantly put yourself down, especially with depressives to add to it.
Re: THE nightmare Phenazepam experience to end them all
Before somebody decide to take a downer ego as benzos are, that person should take a look in the mirror and figure out if those eyes reflects trust, in other way when you get black out you could be confident about that you are not doing something as to say sorry by a entire life because one usually think ''i know enough'', but somebody knew enough about himself ever before.? i don't think so...so be careful if you want let free your mind, nobody can't live a life saying ''i'm sorry''
Re: THE nightmare Phenazepam experience to end them all
I know the person in this story doesn't remember what happened and has been told second hand. I was wondering if the person knows how the "deal" was done, was the girl in the room at the time? I read that the dealer denied this happened, would the person involved be prepared to call his bluff by saying something like, remember the time my girl slept with you for that, want to do it again, what did you give me last time?
I just find it astonishing that this girl would go through with this, i mean it's not like he held a gun to her head, right? Surely the girl would have passed it off as the stupid ramblings of someone who is delirious? Was the meth given to the person then the girl told? I know this girl doesn't want to talk about it but this is something that the person nearly killed them self for so they need to KNOW exactly what happened.
Is it at ALL possible it never happened? The dealer has to confirm this story that is why i suggest the person sees what happens when he tries to do another "deal", this time of course there is no intention of it happening again. IF it does turn out to have happened and the dealer wants to do it again then of course the person says she doesn't want to do it any more and since nothing changes hands there is no "deal". I am thinking this is done on the phone, it would be dodgy doing it face to face.
I don't understand why this girl would have done this unless she was a willing participant, something seems off to me.
Re: THE nightmare Phenazepam experience to end them all
"At the time the deal was made, the dealer was living in a boat planted outside of an apartment complex in one of the worst parts of town. The girl, who I'll refer to as K, was in the boat when the deal was made. I knew the dealer had his eye on her since the day I brought her to meet him. Apparently after K and I had copped and subsequently finished off some heroin and crack in the boat, the dealer whipped out some meth. I must have been in a gluttonous mood, because I'm told I asked him if he would front me a piece, something I very rarely do.
I believe the story goes on with him saying no, then making the proposition of trading a dime in exchange for.. I don't know how to word it... in exchange for the opportunity to fuck K. I guess I gave a, 'yeah, whatever', so I could get some drugs. K told me that she and the dealer's associates asked me if I knew what I was doing. I don't know how I responded, but I'm guessing I gave the same sort of nonchalant answer to that. It's hard to write about because I don't even have vague hazy memories of the time, it's just a complete blank in my mind. And I can't talk about it with K because she will either stop me in my tracks and change the conversation or berate me for even bringing it up.
I guess that there was anywhere from one to two months time between the deal and her actually going through with it. It took even longer for me to find out about it. I remember when she told me in a phone call; she had been treating me differently, stopped showing affection, and getting drugs behind my back (we would normally split everything down the middle) and I called her out on it. I'm a very easy going guy and avoid confrontation unless it's absolutely necessary, but we started to get in a little argument, a first for us. I tried to figure out why she was acting so differently, why she moved away when I tried to spoon, then I asked, "Is it because of that stupid goddamn meth deal I made? It's over, it was ridiculous.. all over a dime?"
"I did it."
This froze me in my tracks. I couldn't breathe, let alone speak. There was silence on both ends of the phone for about a minute.
"What?!" I finally asked, hoping I had misheard or that she was just fucking with me.
"I finished the deal," she said.
"...Please, please tell me that's not true. You didn't do that. That's not true."
"Yup."
"Over a dime, no. No way." I began to cry, which before this day, was a rarity. "Why? Why would you do that?"
"He knows where we live, I did it to protect our families."
"He wouldn't have done a goddamn thing, not over a dime!" I snapped.
It went on like this for a while, then she must have grown tired of the conversation because she hung up on me. Then I tried calling the dealer, trying not to sound like I was bawling, "Did you fuck K?"
"What?!" he was shocked.
"Did.. you.. fuck.. K?"
"Aw, hell naw. But I would tear that pussy up. And she owes it to me because of you."
"Please man, I just have to know, did you, or didn't you do it?"
"I don't have time for this. Keep this shit on the northside (we live on the northside and he lives downtown)."
Then I tried calling K again and said, "I just talked to (the dealer) and he denies it." She burst into tears.
"You think I'm just playing games!? Do you really think I would joke about something like that?! He raped me." I started to bawl uncontrollably.
"How could you do that?! He wouldn't have done shit! All you had to do was stop scoring through him." Then I think I started getting hysterical, saying I wanted to go to the cops or go to his boat with my real looking co2 gun to commit suicide (his gun was real and always loaded).
"I'm sorry I even told you," she said, annoyed. "I told (the dealer) to never tell you, and I never planned to tell you."
This was all after I had tried to kill myself by slashing my wrists and the bends of my arms. I was surprised and saddened that K didn't visit me in the hospital, and the one friend that did visit me cried by the mere sight of me; I was still bruised and my right eye was completely red from a popped blood vessel after nearly getting beaten to death by four wannabe gang-bangers. My heart sinks thinking that the day before I hacked myself she was going through with that insanity. I haven't talked to that dealer since, but she has. I don't know how she can. I get sick just thinking about him.
Anyway, I've talked about this whole incident with my friend Laura, who was the only person that visited me in the hospital. She says it wasn't rape if she went there willingly, and I hate to think it but I doubt K would have gone through with it if she hadn't gotten drugs out of it. I mean, earlier in the year she did say she was thinking about sleeping with the guy for drugs, and even if it was just a fleeting thought, it really hurt me. That's an ugly thought, and I don't want to deal with it. I prefer to believe that I am the sole cause behind this sordid mess. Laura says that I beat myself up too much over it, and that she wishes somebody cared about her the way I care about K.
I just talked to K for about an hour and she seems to be doing fine. I'm glad. But now I can't do anything without this whole debacle being stuck in the back of my mind. I can hold it together when I'm around other people but just barely.
I suppose it is possible that it never happened, but I don't want to consider it. And there's no way, if it actually didn't happen, for me to find out about it. K gets pissed if I even bring it up, though she brings it up fairly often, and I doubt she would tell me it didn't happen now after knowing I tried to kill myself because of it.
I've considered dropping some acid and going to the nearby delta for some real introspection, but I'm afraid that in my state of mind that would be asking for a bad trip. I'm sorry if this post has been overly boring, but I've finally distanced myself from the incident enough to elaborate on it."