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Punishments of okthen and HappyGilmore (self.MLTP)

CRCOfficialOfficial Account for CRC News が 投稿

All,

Last night, certain members of this community went out of their way to antagonize and mock participants in the Super Ball and disrupt the game in progress. The harrassment extended beyond the game and into the reaction thread, despite the perpetrator being told that what he was doing was inappropriate.

This type of behavior is completely unaccepable in this community, and as such the CRC has decided to place the following punishments on okthen and HappyGilmore:

Note: As he and his team were involved in the events of last night related to these punishments, PrivateMajor abstained from both the decision to punish these individuals and the determination of the severity of these punishments.

okthen

Below is a summary of okthen's actions:

  • Intending to tilt Abe Lincoln, okthen sent a Mumble message to Abe containing an image with text saying "Abe?", referencing a previous exchange where okthen had mocked Abe after winning a game against the Holy Rollers.

  • okthen subsequently treed the same message and was kicked from the server

  • In the reaction thread, okthen posted the same image. His comment was quickly removed, but okthen continued to aggressively mock Abe, again posting the same image in a child comment, and expressly stated he would post it again in spite of being told to remove it.

This unrepentent, deliberate, and persistent mocking and antagonizing of another player is inexcusable. It represents the worst parts of a competitive online community, and it will not be tolerated.

Normally, since okthen has not been formally censured in the past, his punishment would end there. However, as a captain who has been a part of this community long enough to know its rules, as an individual who has displayed this type of behavior (if to a lesser degree) before, and as a human being who should simply know better than to try to humiliate another human being over a webgame, the Season 11 CRC does not feel a censure would be adequate.

Therefore, okthen has been banned from participating in MLTP for the entirety of Season 11, and will also serve a month ban from the MLTP subreddit.

HappyGilmore

HappyGilmore acquired a link to the Super Ball group and joined the game in progress, causing a back-to-group scenario and disrupting the flow of the game. He has been banned indefinitely from participating in MLTP.

On a lighter note, the Season 11 CRC has decided to unban Dodsfall and Harkmollis from the MLTP subreddit.

Thank you,

Season 11 CRC

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トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]TPBallGod 65ポイント66ポイント  (23子コメント)

Honestly this has gone way too far. We definitely shouldn't have unbanned HarkMollis from the subreddit

[–]dodsfallMr.Worldwide 10ポイント11ポイント  (22子コメント)

I think okthen would want to piggyback the top comment and would like to defend himself from accusations:

http://i.imgur.com/sbXOrpQ.png

http://i.imgur.com/u9C6UTw.png

[–]TagProFelixFelix 19ポイント20ポイント  (7子コメント)

First off, it's swerve.

[–]rupayswerve | Marble Madnus 16ポイント17ポイント  (3子コメント)

that was the last straw fuck okthen

[–]TagProFelixFelix 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ban him 2 seasons.

[–]TPBallGod 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

ballgods post

[–]rupayswerve | Marble Madnus 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

blatant disrespect

[–]Tanador680A$AP Tanador 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Now that's a meme I haven't seen in a long, long time.

[–]Liquid_tagpro [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Good times...

[–]marmaris74WowSuchPro [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Just commenting for the nostalgia.

[–]TPBallGod 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

you're supposed to say "if okthen was here I think he would say "insert okthen saying""

[–]Curry4ThreeHGW Captain s9-10 || RGB s7-8 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

just no meme awareness =/

[–]rupayswerve | Marble Madnus 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

just another thing Eggo is better at

[–]TPBallGod 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's been out of the game too long :/

[–]rupayswerve | Marble Madnus 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

lol woops I just did it

[–]CallMeLargeFatherEggo || Team Dale 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

crazy to me that okthen gets a SEASON BAN from pk while yearofme got like nothing for using timers in nltp

at least thats what i remember

- Eggo - Superball Winner

edit for signature

[–]bashar_al_assadP K Subball -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I don't solo-ban people, but I appreciate your faith in my ability to do so.

[–]CallMeLargeFatherEggo || Team Dale 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

ah mb pk gave yearofme a weak ass ban for actually cheating and pk+turbo gave okthen a season long ban for what he did sunday

- Eggo - Superball Winner

[–]cxb17C Bivvey | Boostin Dynamo 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

Every time I read one of your comments, I always click the link in your signature even though I've seen it over and over again

[–]CallMeLargeFatherEggo || Team Dale 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

thank you, it means a lot

Hopefully one day this is righted and you can go on without having to click, just seeing the image right there by my name =]

- Eggo - Superball Winner

[–]JBaayBaayJBB // STREAM*TEAM 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

I think getting kicked by a mumble mod with the message "not nice" is an official warning to stop doing what you're doing.

[–]dodsfallMr.Worldwide 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Im just a voice for the voiceless. I was there, now I am the voice.

[–]Destar [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Is that mumble mod affiliated with mltp? Did anyone from mltp warn him or was it just this mumble mod?

[–]Dr_Fargo1Ajax 31ポイント32ポイント  (1子コメント)

Happy Gilmore is also serving a three month ban from tagpro in general. Hope it was worth it!

[–]bobby_gordon1TheBob18 || $TK Allumni 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think the fact that he got attention made it worth for him.

[–]Abe_Lincoln_Tagpro 30ポイント31ポイント  (7子コメント)

Wanted to lay off commenting on anything for a while but I think I have to. If I influenced the crc by acting like a victim of asshattery and tilt that wasn't my intent. I agree with most others on here that a whole season ban is excessive. A couple weeks and everyone losing respect for him is enough imo. Can't say I'm sad to see the ban tho tbh

[–]LoweJDirty euro 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

Who had respect for him?

[–]SystolicNut#Frozen 23ポイント24ポイント  (4子コメント)

straight from best at offensive D to just best at offensive tbh :/

[–]Curry4ThreeHGW Captain s9-10 || RGB s7-8 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

you tried frozen it's ok

[–]SystolicNut#Frozen 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Hmmm? What do you mean?

Go The Lava Monsters!

[–]girmluhkGramps 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

go the lava monsters!

[–]FaithNHumanityStatus 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

but still not as offensive as your attempt at humor :P

[–]Young_S1natra 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

People probably had respect for his skill

[–]Curry4ThreeHGW Captain s9-10 || RGB s7-8 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

decided to unban Dodsfall

first of all why is the d capitalized

secondly... WOOHOO!!!!

[–]Turboweasle 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

Man it's hard to keep track of everyone's capitalization preferences. :(

[–]uhhhhmmmm 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Also I never see anyone call you turbs even though I know that's what you prefer being called

[–]radianthero156 11ポイント12ポイント  (32子コメント)

wasnt abe in okthen's team last season? what happened between them that made them so salty at each other?

[–]GemTP 11ポイント12ポイント  (4子コメント)

so salty at each other

abe never did anything to okthen, or anyone for that matter..

[–]chinaldoCrippy 13ポイント14ポイント  (3子コメント)

I haven't really followed the drama, but in YS1's post (which got deleted) I found it surprising that Abe would post something like this. It seems like they were both salty for some reason, but if what I'm reading is true, okthen definitely took it too far.

[–]FaithNHumanityStatus 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

okthen out here trying to get censured

OVERACHIEVER!

[–]Young_S1natra 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Which post did I delete? The one proving xile is at fault got removed :/

[–]SyniikalS7 Ballchimedes // S9 ALL CAPS // S10 Holy Rollers 11ポイント12ポイント  (10子コメント)

okthen is a bad person

[–]NeonAuraPrizm [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

You're totally right

[–]SyniikalS7 Ballchimedes // S9 ALL CAPS // S10 Holy Rollers [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

I noticed you failed to make playoffs in both conferences this season. Must not have been satisfied losing in one at a time like usual

[–]bashar_al_assadP K Subball [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Ah yes because everybody knows you become a good person if you make the playoffs.

[–]SyniikalS7 Ballchimedes // S9 ALL CAPS // S10 Holy Rollers [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This guy gets it.

[–]NeonAuraPrizm [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Turns out you and I have the same number of MLTP championships. And remarkably, I did it without being a giant turd. I'll take my victory.

[–]SyniikalS7 Ballchimedes // S9 ALL CAPS // S10 Holy Rollers [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

And remarkably, I did it without being a giant turd.

did you though?

[–]NeonAuraPrizm [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Dank comeback bro, gets you about as far as your amazing K/D

[–]SyniikalS7 Ballchimedes // S9 ALL CAPS // S10 Holy Rollers [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

To the Superball? Nice

[–]NeonAuraPrizm [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

But not far enough to win it, apparently.

[–]i_practice_santeriayank 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

ugh cancer.

[–]SuperSans 21ポイント22ポイント  (8子コメント)

I'm imagining the tagpro community to be a glass of salt water. Without being replenished, eventually all that is left is a pile of salt.

[–]Soadsuey99Skinny Chode | C.R.E.A.M. 20ポイント21ポイント  (5子コメント)

I did not think I would find myself commenting on this thread, although I think an entire season ban is pushing it. I definitely agree that a suspension is warranted, although an entire season is ridiculous. Hark sent very rude personal messages to individuals of MLTP, much more than okthen did and received a two week ban. I agree the difference in this was the timing of okthen's comment, while very short was I assume very impactful.

Halfway through writing this, I've come at a crossroads because a suspension for 5-6 weeks would make him go for cheap, and overpower a team later in the season. So maybe the options only are 2-3 weeks or a full season length ban, in which case I would choose 2-3 weeks and a full season length subreddit ban.

[–]StamratMr. Hat 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

overpower a team later in the season

lol

[–]TPBallGod 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

IMO he would already go much cheaper than what his price should be so I don't think him overpowering a team would be something you need to worry about considering he probably would have went for sub 10 TC based off his personality

[–]FaithNHumanityStatus 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm inclined to agree with you, cuz if anyone knows their tagcoins... ;)

[–]bobby_gordon1TheBob18 || $TK Allumni [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I mean it's only 2/13th the value of 65 TC tbf

[–]TagPortport. 21ポイント22ポイント  (0子コメント)

In case you didn't already know, HappyGilmore has another account, we_won_haha, that he uses when he gets banned. He has definitely used the two accounts to ban evade in the past, so he might do it in competitive as well.

[–]Rhapsody_in_Whitesundown 29ポイント30ポイント  (1子コメント)

Normally, since okthen has not been formally censured in the past, his punishment would end there...banned from participating in MLTP for the entirety of Season 11

um, missed a few steps there, no?

[–]i_practice_santeriayank 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, this punishment is way too extreme. A couple game suspension would have been adequate.

[–]Young_S1natra 15ポイント16ポイント  (2子コメント)

Smh they got the wrong guy, xile shoulda been suspended and okthen took the hit

[–]TagProFelixFelix 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

imo, this is all Dick Licker's fault somehow

[–]bobby_gordon1TheBob18 || $TK Allumni 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

You mean LEMON_PLEDGE?

[–]ZiggyAAngry Balls 12ポイント13ポイント  (25子コメント)

Way too excessive can season 10 captains submit a veto/reduction?

[–]ravenprideRaven 13ポイント14ポイント  (19子コメント)

Way too excessive

Agreed. okthen was obviously being an ass, but banning him for an entire season is a bit much.

[–]ZiggyAAngry Balls 10ポイント11ポイント  (18子コメント)

Considering we didn't ban people for telling others to kill themselves, being autistic, and for being sexist, but we ban for a whole season for a meme? Ya I don't get this overreaction. Also why ban him from MLTP subreddit, he didnt post it here he posted it on mumble. Ban him from mumble if you're going to ban. I don't really support any bans though to be honest for him, he's a first timer.

[–]Turboweasle 8ポイント9ポイント  (17子コメント)

he didnt post it here

Yes he did.

[–]ZiggyAAngry Balls 7ポイント8ポイント  (16子コメント)

I apologize I see that now, and can you explain your rationale for a season long ban?

[–]Turboweasle 26ポイント27ポイント  (15子コメント)

You're essentially asking me to be the lightning rod for the criticism directed to the CRC as a whole, and to open myself up to a dozen comments telling me what a "fucking joke" I am no matter what my rationale is, but this is an issue that I care a lot about so I'll do it regardless.

This is meant to be a for-fun league. okthen deliberately tried to make participating in this for-fun league miserable for Abe last night. He showed no willingness to stop when told he should, he showed no remorse when it was obvious he'd succeeded in pissing Abe off.

This isn't about tilting. This is about intent. okthen intended to ruin someone's fun in a for-fun league, and you don't get to do that while still enjoying the perks in being in that for-fun league.

Why a full season ban instead of a few games? Lots of reasons for that. What message does a 3-game suspension send? "Repeatedly act like an asshole to someone and you'll get your draft stock dropped so you can go for cheap onto a decent team just in time to start winning for playoffs!" Not only that, but how does it punish the behavior we're trying to punish? He'd still get to be on a team of his peers, some of which would probably reinforce his attitude that he did nothing wrong, practicing with them and enjoying all the good things about the league and looking forward to maybe making a deep playoff run. Where's the punishment in that? Where does he actually see consequences for his actions?

And from a broader perspective, is this the kind of league where we want people acting in that manner to essentially get a slap on the wrist as punishment? I understand that previous CRCs didn't ban players for being racist/sexist or telling players to kill themselves, but if there was a continual pattern of that sort of behavior, don't you think they should've? Do we want this league to host antagonistic personalities that deliberately seek to make other people feel shitty about themselves? Maybe we do, based on the way people like Neb or Honeybear get treated.

But that isn't the kind of league that I want. I want competition and adrenaline, but above all I want sportsmanship. I want people to look at this league as the pinnacle of competitive Tagpro, not as some elitist clique that collectively shits on the target of the week and snickers to itself at token punishments for acting like an asshole. And while I don't think that's where we are right now, that's definitely where we're headed if we tolerate behavior like okthen (and others in the past) has displayed.

Maybe you're still confident we went too far with this punishment. You're well within your rights to tell us that, as is everyone else who has done so already. And if we've overstepped, the Season 11 captains will dial it back a bit -- that's why they have veto power over CRC decisions. With all that said, though, I feel like the ban is the right decision given the context I've laid out here. I want a fun league, and for some people it's becoming anything but that.

[–]arjuna9bad 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

basically what yank said. I don't think making an example out of him is the right way to change the community.

But people saying this decision is a joke should consider your viewpoint. It's good to see you guys trying to do something to fight the negativity.

[–]brgerd 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

To be fair, agreeing to be on the crc kinda opens yourself up to being that lightning rod lol. That said I appreciate the reasoning behind the ban and definitely appreciate seeing it written out. Im still not sure I agree with the length of the ban, but there are definitely a lot of points that have good merit behind the decision.

[–]ZiggyAAngry Balls 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

I do think you did go too far, but more importantly the league needed to know this rationale and that way they know what they can and can't do in the future. I appreciate your explanation and your time.

[–]i_practice_santeriayank 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're essentially asking me to be the lightning rod for the criticism directed to the CRC as a whole

I'm under the impression that PM recused himself from these discussions and the punishment was decided by you and PK. Is that not right?

Thank you for laying out your reasoning. It is helpful to see where you are coming from. I agree with your assessment of the toxicity of the league and that it makes playing less fun. The personal wellbeing of community members is paramount and too often overlooked. But, the goal of your punishment, as you outlined in your response, was to make an example out of okthen rather than hand him a fair punishment. By doing that, you are punishing okthen for the toxic environment of the community as a whole. We are all responsible for the league's toxicity, not just okthen. You want the community to know this kind of behavior won't be tolerated in the future. That is great and the community should be 100% with you in taking that direction. But, the punishment needs to be just. If the old CRC might've handed out a 2 game suspension, a stiffer, but more reasonable penalty might be a half-season suspension. The S11 captains can veto, but I hope you reconsider.

[–]girmluhkGramps 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

crc's have been waaaay too fucking nice to people for being complete dicks to other players and not acting in the spirit of sportsmanship and competition for plenty of seasons.

I for one welcome our ban happy overlords! You wanna fucking troll? do it in pubs. (or go play something else!)

[–]Curry4ThreeHGW Captain s9-10 || RGB s7-8 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

do it in pubs

mfw

[–]FLYMOLOTAGPROFLY 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

This is the S11 CRC, I was removed last night :(

[–]ZiggyAAngry Balls 15ポイント16ポイント  (3子コメント)

You should turn that frown upside down, you're free!

[–]FLYMOLOTAGPROFLY 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

Wish I had left the league better than I had found it. I love TagPro and MLTP but I couldn't quite keep up. Hopefully if I'm free in the future I'll be able to come back.

[–]ZiggyAAngry Balls 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

I felt the same way when I was done but people know you gave everything you could to help this league

[–]TagProTyrusTy 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fly is in the top 3 CRC of all time.

[–]TheSmallIndianTheIndian 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm amazed at the drama a Web game can create

[–]Destar [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Just wait until people start to fragment into smaller communities over drama like this and those communities develop a hatred for one another. That's when stuff really gets fun!

[–]the_sidewalk_endsSIDE || Probots || Captain 16ポイント17ポイント  (10子コメント)

Banning for the whole season is excessive, hopefully the new captains will veto and lower the punishment to an appropriate level.

Does HappyGilmore's punishment extend to nltp too?

[–]dceagle79Dance 38ポイント39ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think PK of MLTP will ask PK of NLTP if he wants to ban him from there too

[–]JBaayBaayJBB // STREAM*TEAM 14ポイント15ポイント  (3子コメント)

Does HappyGilmore's punishment extend to nltp too?

Yup, we got three votes from NLTP CRC to ban him from NLTP too. Post coming shortly.

[–]fxu1989S9 Origin Ducks // S10 Boostin Dynamo 22ポイント23ポイント  (2子コメント)

Can we also ban him from mumble? All he does is join a channel and make fart noises.... wtf.

[–]JBaayBaayJBB // STREAM*TEAM 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

I would be in support of that

[–]BanzaiOnTagProAnze is into wafers. 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

You mean the fart noises, right?

[–]bobby_gordon1TheBob18 || $TK Allumni 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah I think a couple games or a couple weeks would've been more adequate. I'm not saying what okthen did was ok then okay, but I think a season-long ban is too harsh.

[–]Curry4ThreeHGW Captain s9-10 || RGB s7-8 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

what okthen did was ok then

pls

[–]bobby_gordon1TheBob18 || $TK Allumni 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

True that was a little too memey.

[–]I_read_this_comment 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

Why a full season ban and not a half season or few weeks ban?

i agree that the things Okthen did have to be punished and that a censure isn't enough but a full season ban seems very harsh.

You guys run MLTP and I'm no part of that but I do think you need to give some arguments and reasons why to give OKthen a ban for a full season. Especially if you only give reasons about why you're not censuring him and that a ban is more appropiate (I agree with that).

[–]bashar_al_assadP K Subball 15ポイント16ポイント  (2子コメント)

We went with a significant suspension because we don't want to turn tilting somebody in a championship game into a strategic decision where you weight the costs and benefits. We don't want to turn TagPro into a place where players get heckled by the rest of the TagPro community during the game.

If we gave a small suspension, then sure, most people wouldn't do what okthen did yesterday. But that's already the case - most people in TagPro are good people. But we don't want everyone else to look at a small punishment, decide that its worth it, and act like okthen did.

[–]FaithNHumanityStatus 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Curious, do you know if tree messages can be ignored by a channel? Obviously you wouldn't expect people with tree priv to do something like that, but that's what happens when you give friends the keys, but that would at least be something to implement during the season.

[–]Curry4ThreeHGW Captain s9-10 || RGB s7-8 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

if you dont have message powers in a channel, your trees will not reach that channel

so yeah it's possible to set up a channel that way

[–]Sosentimeboy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I agree with the majority that a full-season ban is WAY too harsh... What if he wasn't allowed to sign up for the draft, only MLTP-experienced free agency? That seems like enough for me... another option is to make him ineligible for the post-season. I don't think that would work as a punishment if we allow him to enter the draft, since his value would be really difficult to gauge; only if he goes through free agency. Anyway, that seems more reasonable than a full-season ban, which is basically saying "MLTP doesn't want you" and I don't think that's the message we should be sending to anybody whose name isn't HappyGilmore.

Some more thoughts: okthen is being made out as some kind of monster who doesn't want other people to have fun. Trash talking is kinda his main way of expressing himself and I don't think he realizes when he's crossing the line from trash talk to bullying / being a complete asshole. So I don't think what he did was malicious. But it still needs to be punished with more than just a 2 week ban. I don't think the two week bans are very effective; they're not a strong enough deterrent. If I really wanted to say something that I thought would get me banned for two weeks, I would probably just say it.

[–]Buttersnack 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's super sad to see okthen doing shit like this. I thought he was a great captain last season. This season it's clear that a lot of people have lost respect for him over the course of the season, and now I have too after seeing this childish behavior from him. I hope he gets his act together, but I can't say I'm upset to see him banned after last night.

HappyGilmore has been a troll for years. Good riddance.

[–]Destar [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Come on dude, he wasn't being just childish he was being

the worst parts of a competitive online community

and that will not be tolerated.

[–]tp_steveholt 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm impressed. I think this was the right call, and I can't understand people who think it's overkill.
a) No one has had to be told not to do shit like this during the superball before this. That's ridiculous. It's the most important game of the season. If the CRC doesn't take a strong stand about messing with superballs then they become meaningless jokes.

b) everyone talks about toxicity--multiple posts recently about it--but when the crc actually steps up and does something about it suddenly it's too much. Clearly whatever was being done before wasn't working. I'm sure okthen thought about it and was like "oh, i'm sure it'll just be a slap on the wrist, maybe it'll lower my draft stock."
c) he, as far as I can tell, has refused to even admit that he was wrong or that he wouldn't do it again. As far as I can remember everyone has been able to at least pretend that they'd change and that they'd learned their lesson.

[–]rupayswerve | Marble Madnus 13ポイント14ポイント  (26子コメント)

lol @ full season ban. New CRC already off to a bad start. On its own "Abe?" isn't that bad, it's just a meme at this point. But okthen definitely took it too far if he private messaged it and for the tree. Has anyone been banned for a season for something like this before? The only suspensions I can remember are Dick Licker and Gman and both were for a couple games and they said worse things.

[–]Squeeb96Squeeb // Coup Captain 16ポイント17ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's the combination of it being the Superball, okthen saying the same thing during the Eastern Conference Finals, PM'ing it to Abe, treeing it out, and him not even being apologetic about it at all in the thread after the game. One of those by itself isn't bad, but all of them combined is really shitty.

[–]rupayswerve | Marble Madnus 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree it's shitty. Shitty enough to warrant a couple game suspension.

[–]fuckrazzballMEGATRON 13ポイント14ポイント  (17子コメント)

I suggested to okthen that he apologize last night and he simply could not grasp the concept of WHY he needed to apologize for emotionally abusing Abe.

Also, I don't think you can say Abe? is "just a meme" at this point when you have written evidence that Abe himself hates seeing it.

[–]fxu1989S9 Origin Ducks // S10 Boostin Dynamo 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

I messaged him as well asking him to apologize, he just threw me a "maybe. " So much for the s9 lads...

[–]ProTagonist_ 6ポイント7ポイント  (15子コメント)

yeah, it's not just a meme, and okthen knows that. multiple times over the past few weeks, abe has dc'ed from mumble for the night after someone has said it... it really affects him. combine that with this game being the superball and okthen being completely unapologetic, i don't think it's an excessive punishment.

[–]rupayswerve | Marble Madnus 5ポイント6ポイント  (14子コメント)

I just saw it like the coys button joke where coys got tired of it after a while. I didn't think it bothered Abe that much.

[–]girmluhkGramps -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

Thinking for others generally doesn't work out. Assuming you know how someone feels also rarely works out.

[–]Destar [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I agree, but at the same time I could say the exact same thing about everyone here who is assuming they know what okthen's motives were

Here's what Turbo said as part of his justification for the okthen ban:

okthen deliberately tried to make participating in this for-fun league miserable for Abe last night.

But I guess this is somehow different.

[–]qblyquibble 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

I deleted this a sec ago but fuck it, it's worth saying. No it's definitely not the same. coys' play was just that - something he did in game, and it was situationally funny based on the commentator's reaction. okthen trolled abe personally, and there wasn't anything funny about it. From the outside it may look like a dumb joke, but earlier this season when ys joehobo im high went out of their way to meme the shit out of me in scrims, via reddit posts, and over mumble, for something that had happened a month earlier and after I repeatedly told them to stop, I was really disturbed. I didn't really care if they got punished for it as long as they left me alone, that was how much it was bothering me. The meming this season really got out of hand and turned mean spirited, and abe was unfortunately also on the receiving end of that. I guess until you're a personal target of this kind of unwanted shit, it's easy to laugh it off. I don't know if the punishment is excessive for okthen, but what he did certainly was not ok.

[–]Young_S1natra -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

You are grossly overexaggerating the extent to which we "memed the shit out of you." I, for one, sent one message to your channel after a USC game with something you said in the original USC thread. Joe sent like two messages. i'm high made a bike meme about that got 36+ upvotes before it was removed. MEME*TEAM threw scrims against you, but they and pretty much half of the other teams also threw most of the scrims they played. Outside of the first thread this is all that has happened to my knowledge. You are making it seem like we've followed you around and harassed you - as soon as you complained to asdf and got a "restraining order" on our whole USC team we have left you alone except for when protag forced me into a channel with you for a scrim. And if you get offended by people fucking around in scrims, I'd reevaluate your priorities.

[–]liuzerus87The Loo / Not MLTP [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yes, and I'm sure okthen thought "abe?" is just funny and not that bad, and abe is just grossly overexaggerating. You don't get to decide what is hurtful and what is just funny -- the person at the receiving end decides.

But what I really don't understand is why you guys even think it's fun to meme about something from like 3 weeks prior? Can you really not entertain yourself without going out of your way to fuck with other people trying to have some fun? If the only way you can have fun is by fucking around with other people, I'd reevaluate your entire life.

[–]MrJoehobo -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Holy shit I sent, like 2 messages to you all season. One was a reply to a message you sent to our channel.

Also it was not personal or mean spirited at all. It was nothing about you as a player or you as a person. It was about you calling out lebron for using timers.

[–]InnerPeaceBall -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Having watched this USC drama from the outside, you weren't even an issue compared to what, say, ys was doing. But the problem with you was more that you acted as a part of a meme that was created for the sole purpose of harassing someone.

What you did would be the equivalent of me sending the ABE? picture to Abe Lincoln right now included with a "lol suck it loser" message. I wouldn't be the root of the problem, but it's drama that happened a month ago which clearly annoys the shit out of him. Would you agree it's a dick move to send that? Because it would be no different than you and the pup timer drama in USC.

Read the original drama thread yourself if you, for some reason, really believe it's not about her as a player or as a person.

/u/liuzerus87, I suppose.

[–]liuzerus87The Loo / Not MLTP -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

quibble promised me she wouldn't respond to any messages in this thread, so I'll respond on her behalf.

All of the in-game messages after scrims? On mumble? Meme post on r/mltp? You and others spending scrim time just blocking her instead of playing the game? And consider that it was your whole usc team harassing her, so 2 messages times multiple people turns into something a lot more.

And it's just ridiculous to claim it was "not personal". I don't know what you mean when you say "nothing about you as a player or you as a person", but you clearly made it more than just a disagreement about timers when you're going out of your way to make her life in the tp community miserable. If that's your way of expressing a disagreement about an issue, then you really need to grow up, because that was just plain old personal harassment. That's how immature little boys gang up to bully other people, not how grownups deal with disagreements.

In short, don't try to pretend that you weren't an ass. The way you acted is just another example of how people in this community go out of their way to ruin other people's experiences playing a simple web game, and then you sit with your little elitist group of friends and laugh about your "meme"-ing.

[–]XelifFerret 8ポイント9ポイント  (5子コメント)

it's just a meme at this point

Using "it's just memes lel" as an excuse for antisocial behavior... do we really want the TagPro community to turn into 8chan?

[–]rupayswerve | Marble Madnus 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'm just saying on it's own it's not that bad. It's not like using a slur or being racist or overly abrasive.

[–]Destar 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

You don't understand. We have to tailor punishments according to the victim. We need to band together as a community to protect the more fragile members of our community or people like okthen will never cease their torment others with such vitrol as "abe?" If someone upsets you, you should have every right to remove that problematic user from the community entirely, regardless of their intent or however light hearted it may seem.

These downvotes are triggering me. Stop.

[–]TPBallGod 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah this deserved like a 2 week suspension and a subreddit ban for a little bit at most IMO. I'm not liking the PK turbo CRC so far

[–]Turboweasle -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

I am totally shocked that you feel this way.

Totally shocked.

[–]Destar 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I guess I'm just full of overdramatic comments about issues blown was out of proportion.

[–]TagProTyrusTy 3ポイント4ポイント  (16子コメント)

A subreddit ban and few games suspension would be reasonable but a full season ban is definitely not. People before have gotten a lesser punishment for saying worse things, so this would be drastically changing the precedent from before.

[–]JBaayBaayJBB // STREAM*TEAM 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

People before have gotten a lesser punishment for saying worse things, so this would be drastically changing the precedent from before.

I disagree, it's not his actual comment to Abe, it was the context surrounding it. The precedent is that strategic tilting and harassment during a competitive game will be met with harsh punishment.

If okthen posted the "Abe?" image on the sub (which he did, after the game), then that would be a censure, max. But since he harassed Abe in game, during the Superball, that leads to a more extensive punishment.

[–]Destar [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The precedent is that strategic tilting and harassment during a competitive game will be met with harsh punishment.

Do you honestly think that okthen was strategically titling?

Also to be clear when you say "in game" you mean in between g3h1 and g3h2, right? Because I can almost guarantee he did not post the image during actual gameplay.

[–]PrivateMajor 1ポイント2ポイント  (13子コメント)

Just as a general policy, precedent doesn't really exist when you have an entirely different group of people deciding the punishments.

PK and turbo haven't been on the crc before.

[–]Curry4ThreeHGW Captain s9-10 || RGB s7-8 7ポイント8ポイント  (7子コメント)

precedent doesn't really exist when you have an entirely different group of people deciding the punishments

that's not how precedent works...

[–]PrivateMajor 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

True, but we shouldn't view precedent outside of the season of that particular CRC group. This is a new group, with a different way of doing things than the previous group.

People saying things like "this is harsher than (x)" isn't very relevant when the people making this decision weren't involved in the previous one.

[–]SystolicNut#Frozen 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

Not that I disagree, it's your league. But the entire reason for precedence in the legal system is for consistency of decisionmaking despite different groups making the decision.

[–]PrivateMajor -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

It's never been a goal of MLTP to have consistent punishments. This isn't a legal system with hundreds of years of historic precedent and professional/brilliant minds crafting the process of it throughout.

This is a amateur game league with different groups of people trying to do the best they can based on differing circumstances.

[–]Destar 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Maybe consistent punishments should be a goal? I don't see how you've run the league this long without valuing fairness, it's kind of sad to see a statement like that from someone so influential to this community.

[–]PrivateMajor -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Consistent punishments are not a good thing when we aren't allocating the proper punishment in the first place.

[–]Destar [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I mean that's great and all for the CRC who gets to decide what proper punishment is according to whatever they're feeling it is on that particular day. But as a player in the league I would like some accountability from the people running it that any administrative action will be fair.

I guess that's too much to ask?

[–]SystolicNut#Frozen 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah like I said I don't disagree at all, I'd do the same thing. Just felt like explaining the merits of the other way of doing things.

[–]TagProTyrusTy 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

A judge may look at a past case from a different judge to determined what the precedent is. It doesn't simply vanish if the decision is made by someone else. It's more related to culture itself rather than individuals.

[–]PrivateMajor 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

This isn't a court of law, it's a group of people running an online webgame that is constantly evolving.

New groups of people come in with different perspectives, and sometimes into wildly different circumstances as past iterations of the league.

[–]TagProTyrusTy 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

No one is saying that precedent cannot be changed. In fact by it's very definition it is something that evolves over time with the changing of the culture and perspectives of the community. We're only saying that this change would be too drastic to be considered reasonable based on past cases.

[–]PrivateMajor 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

A past response here based on precedent may have been to ban him for a few games. Instead of a few games, it's a full season.

Banning him for one or two extra games would effectively do nothing.

[–]Destar [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Banning him for one or two extra games would effectively do nothing.

Pretending that a season long ban is the next best option is silly. There are many options that could've been explored that would've been more fair. Instead the CRC waited less than a full day to decide a major administrative ban that will essentially remove okthen from the competitive community entirely for half a year.

Here's a solution that appeases Turbo's complaint quoted here

What message does a 3-game suspension send? "Repeatedly act like an asshole to someone and you'll get your draft stock dropped so you can go for cheap onto a decent team just in time to start winning for playoffs!" Not only that, but how does it punish the behavior we're trying to punish? He'd still get to be on a team of his peers, some of which would probably reinforce his attitude that he did nothing wrong, practicing with them and enjoying all the good things about the league and looking forward to maybe making a deep playoff run. Where's the punishment in that? Where does he actually see consequences for his actions?

You could limit a player's minutes (and even set playoff minutes to 0 if it's that big a deal) so that they still get to be a part of the community but don't get to enjoy a full experience because of their actions.

I just don't see how his actions warrant such a complete excommunication. It's absurd.

[–]Words_Of_AdviceSolf 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

okthen da absolute madman !!!

[–]sccrking555 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

This punishment seems excessive for okthen... A whole season because of some tilting? I'm not so sure the punishment fits the crime. I would have much rather seen a 2-3 game ban. Really hoping the captains veto this.

[–]xGman8181x 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

This is insane. Dick Licker and I got suspended for a couple weeks for saying actual slurs intended to severely hurt someone. If you cant control your emotions over a online game ESPECIALLY if it is something as simple as your name with a question mark you should minimize mumble. Theres a simple solution to the problem but instead took it upon himself to get frustrated with the messages and go to the length to PM Okthen something like "go fucking die in a hole". An entire season ban is absolutely ridiculous and Seaosn 11 CRC you are off to a TERRIBLE start. You complain about keeping good players in the game but you consistently ban and suspend people, whether it be in pubs or competitive play. The amount of times I have heard TagPro mods laugh about banning people is surreal and honestly I feel like VERY LITTLE discussion took place before you guys decided to ban him for an entire season. This is honestly pathetic

[–]fuckrazzballMEGATRON 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

You complain about keeping good players in the game but you consistently ban and suspend people, whether it be in pubs or competitive play.

If you want to keep good players then you should probably also institute and enforce rules designed to stop bullying and toxicity.

[–]sun__chips 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

yah or just get rid of them

[–]xGman8181x -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

If the mods and CRC are as harsh as they have been with going about banning/suspending players, I promise you there will not be enough decent players for 2 more seasons.

[–]Ashmungashma [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

that's excessive, but even if you're right, i'd rather enjoy 1 last good season then spend 3 seasons dealing with toxic shitters and hating everything about playing mltp

[–]king_jacobi 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

When gman is the voice of reason, you know you fucked up

[–]Destar [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I feel like VERY LITTLE discussion took place before you guys decided to ban him for an entire season

This is something that I feel a lot of people are ignoring. They didn't even wait a whole day before deciding they would remove okthen for the entire next season. There's no way that this decision was made with all the information available.

[–]CallMeLargeFatherEggo || Team Dale 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

A SEASON? Surely the crc expands on their reasoning here, especially given that this would "normally" result in just a censure

This is a joke

- Eggo - Superball Winner

edit for signature

[–]naysh30Bamboozler // NLTP CRC 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Surely

[–]BeastMode3333 1ポイント2ポイント  (19子コメント)

This unrepentent, deliberate, and persistent mocking and antagonizing of another player is inexcusable.

All okthen said was Abe? and you use this language and ban him for a season from a league that is desperate to retain talent. You guys are a fucking joke.

[–]CharredQuestions 13ポイント14ポイント  (18子コメント)

I think it's that he did it multiple times, he influenced the superball, and he did it after he was told to stop.

If he just did it once, then yeah dick move but w/e. If he did it during a game that wasn't a superball, it wouldn't be w/e, but it would be a much lesser deal.

HR played so much worse on smirk, a map they should have had an advantage on. You have to believe Abe's mental state which Okthen sought to fuck with contributed heavily to that.

[–]JBaayBaayJBB // STREAM*TEAM 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agree. Context is very important in this punishment. Both happygilmore and okthen influenced the Superball in a negative manner, and that is weighted in their punishments.

Furthermore, okthen was told to stop, kicked from mumble for being "not nice," and continued to harass a player that was currently playing. Then he went on the sub and said that he'd do it all over again.

If okthen got a censure or a weak punishment like 2-3 games, it sets a shifty precedent. At that point, players might consider tilting as strategic, if they are only banned for the beginning of next season.

I'm in favor of the strong punishment - and if it prevents and discourages people from negatively interfering in important games, then it already has worked.

[–]i_practice_santeriayank 11ポイント12ポイント  (16子コメント)

HR played so much worse on smirk, a map they should have had an advantage on. You have to believe Abe's mental state which Okthen sought to fuck with contributed heavily to that.

What a bunch of BS excuses. HR didn't play any worse on smirk. It was a 1 cap game, in line with the other two games. You say they tilted from okthen, but I think if anything, it's more likely they tilted from an 8-1 loss on Emerald H2. Why should they have had an advantage on smirk? With Crippy, this would've been an easy HGW win.

[–]the_sidewalk_endsSIDE || Probots || Captain 11ポイント12ポイント  (9子コメント)

idk, im not sure that bad couldve played better than spjork on offense. Spjork was jukier than i've ever seen bad be, but bad mightve been able to play better support. Its hard to say how the game wouldve changed but regardless, i dont think it wouldve been an easy HGW win at all.

[–]chinaldoCrippy 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

Let me try my best Syniikal impression:

With me playing it would only be 2 maps either way. Looks like the Holy Rollers needed some call ups based on the amount of "inting" the Holy Rollers were doing throughout Emerald and Pilot. That was by far the worst tagpro i've seen in the superball. I want to tear my eyes out.

Edit: "inting" is a league of legends term which means intentionally throwing, had to look that one up

[–]Destar 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

That emerald g2h2 throw. I couldn't believe my eyes.

[–]TPBallGod 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

East too good what can you do against them :/

The east is just 10 times better than the whole western conference and every east team would stomp every west team :/

Superball was already played and it was holy rollers vs meme*team :/

Chase jam vs holdin gate was some of the worst Tagpro ever played easy superball for the east :/

[–]i_practice_santeriayank 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

Spjork played well but all 3 offenders did well. bad was getting out just fine on Pilot. The upgrade from bad to Crippy on D would have been much greater than any (debateable) downgrade from Spjork to bad on O. Plus, there would have been no failed experiment of trying to play Skinny D on Pilot, the only game they lost.

EDIT: also pups. HGW got shredded on pups. 18-9 and 5-1 for the periods that registered on tagpro.eu on Smirk. Crippy brings a lot to HGW's comms and would have helped get the team more on top of pups.

[–]the_sidewalk_endsSIDE || Probots || Captain 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

But it's easy to play D on smirk, I don't think crippy would've made that much of a difference over bad.

[–]i_practice_santeriayank 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yeah, well it wouldn't have gotten to smirk so gg.

[–]the_sidewalk_endsSIDE || Probots || Captain 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

I guess we'll never know...

[–]chinaldoCrippy 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

We should rematch on Wednesday where all of Holy Rollers will be on playing hockey

[–]LEBRONstarJAMESLEBRON*JAMES | MEME*TEAM 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow, how dare you suggest for them to skip TPLH for a second rate league like mltp.

[–]RenegadeTPPup N Suds 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Oh the Emerald loss definitely hit them hard, but to then be berated about it, in front of the whole community, and then in private? That would effect you mentally in a way losing on its own wouldn't.

That G3 was a close game, that HR tied on their server when each half went to the team on their favored server in the previous games... It's not a an excuse man, it's a contributing factor.

[–]i_practice_santeriayank 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

It was Sphere/Sphere.

[–]RenegadeTPPup N Suds 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

What

[–]RenegadeTPPup N Suds 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Fuck me for thinking that.

[–]chinaldoCrippy 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

it's ok u have the east coast mentality :/