EDITED AUGUST 7, 2012 FOR FURTHER CLARIFICATION
[Begin Clarifying Edit]
Okay, so last night’s post was ranty. I appologize for that. It was late (for me), and it pushed buttons, and I broke a cardinal rule of the internet. Don’t post when emotional.
So, to clarify a few things from yesterday’s postage:
A) No, I do not really want to stab Ryu. Sheesh. “Wants to go stabby” is a turn of phrase meaning one is extremely angry. I’m anti-violence and anti-weaponry.
B) No, this is not a personal attack on Ryu after years of us arguing. He claims to not know who I am, and I’ve only been in conversations with him rarely, the most recent, I believe, was a few years ago. Ryu’s name is in the title because he was the instigator on at least three occasions where such talk/conversation happened.
C) My chief complaint was that out of all the people in that transcript, only one person, in my opinion, spoke against what Ryu and the others said. And that’s sad.
The thing that those who posted negatively on my blog and on facebook where I linked the blog don’t understand is that what you’re saying isn’t something I haven’t heard before. It’s just been awhile since someone actually talked like that to me in public. What you say does not shock me, it just makes me pity you. With how much the VC has grown in the past few years alone, I was hoping that such talk would end, and people would wake up to the fact that we’re all in this community together, vampire, donor, and non-vamp.
Here’s the deal. I’ve been involved with the vampire community for nearly two thirds of my life, on the verge of twenty years. My older brother is a vampire, I went to school with vampires, a few of my closest friends are vampires, you get the drift. Hell, when I was in high school, due to my weird assed energy signature, I was mistaken for a form of psi vamp. I’m not one, but still. I’ve seen and been involved in parts of a vampire’s life that even the vampire in question doesn’t fully understand. My role, as I see it, is for me to be there as a support for the vampires in my life, and, the vampire community in general. Which includes donors and other non vampires who are active in the community.
As a “Community Leader”, it is my job to try to make my little corner of the community open and welcoming to all members of the community. Not just those who I want in. Everyone. Else, why would I or the other admins of the Black Swan Haven allow vampires to join the forum, modify the color scheme of the website so it’s as friendly as we can get (while still looking attractive) for vampire eyes, etc? I do my damnedest to try to be polite to everyone, but, alas, I’m only human, so I’m bound to blow a gasket now and then.
Like I said before, this cat dirt that I’m seeing directed towards me isn’t anything new, and honestly, I think that a large portion of the community either doesn’t realize how often it happens, that it happens at all, or if they do see it, just brush it under the carpet as “Oh, it must just be one of the occasional nutjobs that makes it’s way into the community. It’ll go away soon if we ignore it. Don’t feed the trolls, you know.” When we started the BSH, do any of you realize just HOW MUCH hate mail I recieved in our inbox that said things along the lines of:
“Who do you think you are, starting a vampire website/forum, but not allowing vampires to be moderators/administrators.”
“How dare you think that you’re better than vampires. You’re our food. We eat you. You have no right to a voice in the community.”
“Shut this down now, or we’ll attack your server/website.”
Take a look at the comments on my last post, or where I posted the link in facebook’s vampire groups. I am happy that quite a few people agreed with me, and spoke out against such talk/treatment of donors. But the rest of the comments. Typical. And no, I’m not editing any of their comments, I’m just clicking the “Approve” button.
The thing that these vampires (who I severely hope are in the minority) don’t realize, is that vampire politics DOES affect the donors and non vamps in the community. Yes, it’s not always directly, but even if it doesn’t, it very well could hit us indirectly through the vampires in our lives. It might not seem important to you, but it is to me. For example, I was a donor as a teenager. Now, if you go to nearly any VC website/forum, they will tell you that you cannot be a donor until you’re 18. Makes sense, due to legal issues, such as statutory rape, since many view vampiric feeding as a sexual act, or as assault, and when you’re a minor, you have no right to consent to it under the law. Nearly two decades ago, that wasn’t seen often. Donors were rare, as they are now, hence the term Black Swan used for us. So people turned a blind eye towards underaged donors and vamps engaging in feedings, and there weren’t so many lists of blood substitutes and tricks to deal with the cravings as you see today.
Let me phrase this another way. Back in the day (1950’s and prior), women stayed at home, took care of the household and the children, while the men went to work. You’ll see it in books and radio/tv shows from that time. “Honey, you do your womanly duties, and let the man do the thinking around here.” That would be deemed sexist nowadays, and unappropriate for society. Now, replace woman with donor/non vamp, and swap out man for vampire.
“Honey, you do your donorly duties, and let the vampire do the thinking around here.” Tell me how that is any less offensive than the original sentence? And not using the “But Vampires are superior to donors” line of bull pucky.
Couldn’t come up with a reason, could you? Didn’t think so.
Donors like me have to put up with such nonsense on a regular basis. Now, I admit, my brother teases me that I’m the “perfect prey” for a psi vamp, and a “walking, talking smorgesboard”, but he teases me in a good naturely manner. And I admit it. I’m as close to the opposite, and therefore, “perfect prey” for psi vamps. Psi vamps don’t make enough energy, and need an outside source to get it. I make/gather too much energy in me, and need an outside source to shove it into. Purely symbiotic in nature for me. Other donors do it because they have a person they care about that is a vampire of some sort, and they want to be more than just a shoulder to lean on in times of need. So, where in that relationship does it show that either donors or vampires are superior to the other? No where. It’s a symbiotic relationship, and I’m proof of it. My big brother is a vampire, so I was born to balance him out. Simples.
Recently, the VVC put out a community questionaire, asking what the biggest problem with the VC was, and how should it be fixed, which can be found at http://www.veritasvosliberabit.com/accountability.html. The number one response?
Grandiosity/Narcissism. And quite a few of the complaints were about people who claim to be vampiric and, essentially, the biggest badass in the food chain. And yet, when I call someone on their grandiosity and narcissism, what happens? “How dare you step out of place and address your superiors thusly. Shame on you.”
Mhmm. Whatever. It’s talk like this that drives people away from our community, makes it hard for new donors and young vamps to feel welcome in the community, adds to the stressors that we, as a whole, go through when establishing trust in a new donor/vamp relationship, etc.
The good news that came out of my rantitude yesterday? The people who’s reactions were “Holy shit.” “This makes me sick.” and the like. Also my friends and family standing behind me, giving me hugs for stepping up and saying something rather than ignoring it, or staying quiet in my little corner. It’s people like this that gives me hope that OUR vampire community is strong, welcoming, and helpful to those who stumble across us on their life-path. I just hope it’s enough to drown out the nay-sayers.
ORIGINAL POST BEGINS HERE
I just got this little facebook transcript in my BSH mail. Apparently a donor was in this group or something, and she was, to put it plainly, shocked and highly upset. She wishes to remain annonymous, but holy shit fuck, people. I’ll c&p what she sent in, then comment at the bottom.
*WARNING* Trigger Alert. *WARNING*
DONORS AND THEIR ROLE IN THE VAMPYRIC COMMUNITY. Let me say this first, this is my view and my view alone. BY RYU NOCTEM AETERNUS OF HOUSE SABERTOOTH NOCTEM AETERNUS.
Donors,Swans, Blood Bags, Blood Dolls, Snack Packs, Chew Toys what ever you call them. The simple fact of the matter is that they are food to us, yes they are to be respected but the bottom line is that they are food. The thing that pisses me off about this subject is that they feel that they have the right to sit at a Vampyric table and have a say in Vampyric matters, Why? they are not Vampyric and can NEVER understand our plite. We do not have cattle sitting at the desk next to us at work making dissition on our matters, or better yet any matters, because they are cattle and would not nor could they ever understand what our needs are because they are not us. A house member of mine put it in a simple way, a white man whos only friends are black. they are in a group speaking on black problems in the world today. The white man says I feel you that shit is wrong, and I understand. The Black men look and say we respect your view, but how can you understand something you have never been through because you are not black? You Cant because of that fact! As in all walks of life we all have our place in it, and a donors is not at a Vampyric table unless they are on it……… Now as to those whom say what would we do if our donors just said no we are no longer going to feed you….well as in all things of life we will find a way, know that there where not always donors and yet we are still here, we will always survive. I remeber how i use to feed, and well lets just say I am thankful for Father Vincent and my brothers and sisters for teaching me a better way, back in the day. for my self my donor, swan CHEW TOY know what it is they are to me, in our deal part of their oath to me is” I belong to you heart, mind, body and soul and that NO ONE may never touch what belongs to me…………… They know this going in, it is none of any one else buiness what is between my CHEW TOY and I. It is NO ONES BUINESS what ANY Vampi/yre and their donor do what deals they have made or anything. You want to know donor rights? YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY NO TO FEEDING ONE OF MY BROTHERS OR SISTERS, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO FORM YOUR OWN LITTLE SUPPORT GROUPS. But you DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY WHAT GOSE ON IN A VAMPI/YRE DONOR REALATIONSHIP OR THE VAMPYRIC COMMUNITY!
The Vampyre/Vampire community
This is a group where we Vampyres/Vampires can sit and speak about our community. your views will be respected. This is a Vampyre/Vampire group only. please respect each others view. the old ways are upheld here. honor, pride, respect and diginty.
http://www.facebook.com/groups/255993787850628/
Members
(Redacted for their privacy)
Ryu Reborn first subject…… let me say this, and with all due respect, one this is not a house issue, it is a community issue, as far as it not being on topic? how is that. I am a Vampyre and I feel that the rights of the Vampyric community to stay only vampyric are being ignored. as far as unfavorable light, why because donors dont have a say and they want one? THEY ARE NOT VAMPYRIC! they are DONORS! so please tell me how does this not have to do with our rights?One of the reasons the community has fallen as far as it has is because of ALL the non Vamps coming in making a mess. I dont give a shit if our food thinks its un fair for them not to have a say in OUR matters. so brothers and sisters tell me how am I wrong for standing up FOR OUR COMMUNITY? A community I have been apart of for 20 plus years, a community I have spilled blood for, a community I helped build, I help protect, I have lost friends to, a community I live and die for. tell me Brothers and sisters when has our foods wishes become more important then what is right for our community the right for Vampyric matters to stay Vampyric? Tell me if our foods wants are more then what is best for the community I can leave a group that is for VAMPIRE RIGHTS and call it what it is….a donors rights group. because as a Vampyre I have the right to say they have no place in Vampyric politics. why? because they are NOT VAMPYRIC! Like · · Unfollow Post · August 1 at 10:24pm near Suffolk, VA
Seen by 59
Gigi Frost, Corvis Nocturnum, Jill Vampyyri McCarty-Kirk, Dharkling Noctem Aeternus, Athyriel Luciana Nocturna, Adaora Osimiri-Lewis, James Mallory and Angelo Melendez like this.
>Athyriel Luciana Nocturna like i said before, they need to realize their place. i respect them for giving us something we need, but if food is gonna whine, i know i wont want it. >August 1 at 10:32pm · Like · 4
>Dharkling Noctem Aeternus I am all for treating donor/food with the respect they deserve. However, I honestly believe if they were told correctly from the very beginning that they are donors/food and that they are welcome to have their own group to share their own thoughts as donors, they are welcome to do so! As far as Vampyric business, non Vampyres have NO place whatsoever in our own political/business matters. You are completely right Ryu! >August 1 at 10:35pm · Like · 6
>James Mallory They’re called “DONORS” for a reason. If they wanna supply us fine, but know where to draw the line & stay there! You’re not in the wrong for speaking out for us brotha. >August 1 at 10:36pm via mobile · Like · 2
>James Mallory Right Dharkling! Keep it STRICTLY business! >August 1 at 10:41pm via mobile · Like · 1
>James Mallory Granted we come from different houses, bloodlines, havens ect; but we are all kin here. We have to stick together! >August 1 at 10:43pm via mobile · Like · 3
>Athyriel Luciana Nocturna agreed james . ^_^ >August 1 at 10:43pm · Like · 1
>David M Criophix I’m indifferent to donors but I’ve always wondered as I sat twirling in my chair their interest in being apart of vampire houses and wanting to serve on vampire councils. I can’t say I would fight for or against them joining a vampire group but what is accomplished by it? I sometimes blink and muddle on at some these going ons lol >August 1 at 11:07pm via mobile · Like · 1
>Ryu Reborn agreed, i too wish to know why they wish to sit on our council, but it matters not to me because they are not Vampyre/Vampire so why should it matter? >August 1 at 11:10pm · Like · 1
>Dharkling Noctem Aeternus Perhaps it is because they want to be a bigger part of Us as Vampyres. I think that sometimes there are those who truly want to be Vampyric, but can’t be for whatever reason and they become donors in the hopes that it will bring them closer! Just a thought. >August 1 at 11:13pm · Like · 1
>Ryu Reborn could be sis, and I respect that, but that longing doesn’t make them Vampyric. >August 1 at 11:14pm · Like · 2
>James Mallory Could be they want what we want. Power, control, want, the very thing that makes us…. Mundane. >August 1 at 11:15pm via mobile · Like · 1
>Ryu Reborn I only want our community to be safe, strong and one with honor. >August 1 at 11:16pm · Like · 2
>James Mallory One word comes to mind. “Familiar” >August 1 at 11:19pm via mobile · Like · 1
>Dharkling Noctem Aeternus The word that comes to my mind would be “desperation” on some donors part! It doesn’t make it right for them to be part of our business, but it does explain the mundane nature of their demands. >August 1 at 11:23pm · Like · 2
>Jessica Pedrick Donors have rights, and I feel they should be respected: the right to be fed from safely, to be asked beforehand… and if they don’t like it, the right to LEAVE. Howver they do not have the right to smash these facts into our faces. >August 1 at 11:39pm · Like · 2
>James Mallory Exactly Jessica! >August 1 at 11:45pm via mobile · Like · 1
>David M Criophix Yeah. I do sense some of them would love being vampiric without understand what that ment. >August 1 at 11:48pm via mobile · Like · 2
>James Mallory I’m not saying that we should be fully segregated from donors or anything of that matter. It’s just that it’s a time & place for everything is all. >August 1 at 11:48pm via mobile · Like · 1
>James Mallory Basically they want in for all the wrong reasons. >August 1 at 11:52pm via mobile · Like · 1
>Ryu Reborn well said >August 1 at 11:53pm · Like · 1
>Misha Valkyrie I believe donors want to be part of the house and having a voice and say in what goes on is because it is Human nature. If you look throughout history whenever the human species is no longer the superior being they try to in someway weave there way into the top. Some get into the top so that they can change it into there own manner of thinking and thus they are now again the higher ups while others simpley want to be amoung the higher ups and respected and feared as such. They fail to see that well ultimatly it isnt about them, and while the Vampyric/ire community is an arrogant one by nature let us think back to how long we have lived in the shadows. Now in regards to these donors/swans/happy meals no, form your own groups, talk amongst one another, become brothers and sisters if youd like but do not stick your noses in buisness that you cannot and will not understand. It dosnt matter how long you have been around us it dosnt mean anything. For example we all have parents and we all say we understand this and that of what our parents nag and there responce is usually the same,’you wont understand until you go threw it.’ and than when we do we are like ‘oh shit they were right its not like i thought at all’ its the same thing. You CHOSE to be a donor kudos for you, you shall be respected and taken care of as such. Anything that would concern the relationship between a donor and Vampyre will be discussed with you and your opinion herd. But house/coven/council/community exc. buisness is personal. >*para pa pa pa im lovin it * lol got to lighten things up a bit every now and again guys ^.^ oh btw sorry for the misspellings im horrible at it >August 2 at 1:09am · Like · 2
>James Mallory Do we get a toy for our happy meal? Jk! >August 2 at 1:12am via mobile · Like
>Misha Valkyrie lol well i guess the meal is the toy i mean Ryu calls them ‘chew toys’ >August 2 at 1:15am · Like · 2
>James Mallory We all play with our “chew toys” at some point😉 >August 2 at 1:22am via mobile · Like · 1
>Riss Kokaine Booth I will treat my food kindly and with respect. But my food always stays on the table. I think that as a vampire we cannot lose ourselves in the enjoyment of feeding.and get lost in the person. we have the responsibility as.vampires do when the food stats acting as if its equal to our kin and issues then.the vampire should be held accountable. Just my feelings on the topic. >August 2 at 1:51am via mobile · Like · 4
>James Mallory True. ^^ >August 2 at 1:57am via mobile · Like
>Anibal Ramirez The funny thing is, as donors they want to be equals with those they are not. Not beong of the blood has its own merits and benefits as well. Sadly this point is often missed. >August 2 at 4:06am via mobile · Like · 4
>[Name Redacted By Request] I have my reservations on the matter but for reference, there are some that actual gave rights to donor and have even written a document about it. This was written by Belfazaar Ashantison.
>The Donors Bill Of Rights
>This Bill of Rights is to promote the continued safety of the most precious of gifts to us, their life essence. It is suggested that this be signed by both the vampire and the donor on a 30/60/90 day trial basis. After this, the contract can be resigned for an extended period of time which can be either the 30/60/90/ or 6 months to 1 year. At the end of these contracts, discussions can be made as to whether or not changes should be done. What will be allowed and what will not be allowed.
>1) As a donor, I know that it is through my personal sacrifice that the vampires needs are met. It is my loving nature that allows this relationship to continue. It is my right to decline to feed the vampire for any reason.
>2) As a donor to a vampiric being, it is my right to know that I am in a vampiric/donor relationship that will be mutually beneficial to both me and the vampire I am donating my life essence to.
>3) I am the essence provider. It is for me to decide whether or not I am able to give of my essence to the vampire I am with. I must be allotted time to heal and regain my essence in order to better support my vampiric partner.
>4) At no time should my wounds not be allowed to heal.
>5) At no time should I feel stressed about giving of my essence, if at any time I feel stressed, I have the right to back away from the feed, without being or feeling threatened by my vampiric partner.
>6) Should I feel threatened in any way, shape or form, I have the right to seek guidance and council from other donors and leaders of the vampire community.
>7) As a donor to a vampiric individual, I have the right to know that my position as lover, friend, family, roommate should not be jeopardized by my not wanting to give of my essence. In the slang, “it should not cost me my ass to be a donor.”
>8) As a donor, I should also respect the needs of the vampire and try to learn more about his/her feeding habits in order to help stabilize his/her imbalances in energy.
>9) As a donor in a vampire/donor relationship, I realize that though I have many necessary rights, I must also take cares not to abuse the person I am donating my essence to. These same rights afforded me in this Bill of Rights should also be extended to the vampire I am donating too.
>10) Ultimately it is my right to know that I will be safe in all aspects of the vampiric/donor relationship and should I ever feel that my safety is jeopardized, I have the right to walk away clear and free.
>Ultimately, it is our (both the donor and the vampire) responsibility to insure that we are not abused. It is our (both the donor and the vampire) personal responsibility to leave a vampire/donor relationship that we feel is abusive in any nature. We can not be abused unless we allow ourselves to be. >August 2 at 12:51pm · Like · 2
>Ryu Reborn Blue, my house honors the new document, but that does not give them the right to have a say in Vampyric matters, only the rights given to them by said document nothing more, not only that those rights are for the donor and Vampiyre/Vampire not a group of blood bags to have a say in our affairs. what is between a donor and vamp is discussed between them and agreed upon. This is their business and no one else. >August 2 at 1:01pm · Edited · Like · 2
>[Name Redacted] Well, this was for reference only. I don’t personally follow this document but felt it was good to have out there. My rule of thumb on all non-vampiric is this: the kindred politics are for kindred. it’s just that simple. >August 2 at 1:06pm · Like · 5
>Andy Berry ?[Name Redacted]: i hate politics period but thats a good rule to go by >August 2 at 1:33pm · Like
>Ryu Reborn well said [Name Redacted] >August 2 at 3:05pm · Like
>Nikki Harris Everyone and everything has a place, donors need to know there place, plain and simple >August 2 at 3:07pm · Like
>Victorya Upyra Well, I think that is as easy as a House and its members to decide whether or not to include any other than Vampyric. >August 2 at 3:46pm · Like
>Ryu Reborn true, but when it comes to the Vampyric community why can we not just stay Vampyric, why do we have to accept those whom are not of the blood, I mean it is called the Vampire/Vampyre Community for a reason. >August 2 at 4:14pm · Like · 1
>Victorya Upyra Ryu, I do not think that we Vampyres have to accept any that we do not want to be part of our chosen group/House/Community. That is the thing, we don’t have to accept any so called codes, moralities, individuals. It would go well for Vampyres, to find like minded Vampyres, and form their own OVC’s. And disregard current nonsense. >August 2 at 4:20pm · Like · 4
>Damian Nightwalker technically not anyone’s right to subjugate anyone , or we going to put chains back on the black people etc …it is like a ds thing, you choose to submit to someone not a right or have it coming, also again this does not forward the course or rights or equality with people who do not view us as stable but in fact think being a vampire would make you less of a parent etc .but we cleared this misscomunication on the phone >D, , >August 2 at 4:21pm · Like
>Deacon Gray I listen to any advice I can get, I just pay more attention to those with the most expirence. Many of our issues are issues other groups have faced before, so even non vampiric they can offer words that could be of service. >August 2 at 6:02pm · Like
>Damian Nightwalker the only a person non vampiric sits in anything like a council is to rep the other donors of a large house, but they do not need to be privy of all things vampiric, and since it is not any of their business don’t really have to be involved seat or not. when you know it is not their business simply don’t make it their business . easy. >D,, >August 2 at 6:27pm · Like
>Andy Berry undefinedDamian Nightwalker: i know us military types call that the need to know basis >August 2 at 6:29pm · Like · 3
>Damian Nightwalker the rest of it is follow your orders, few people in the community know that it “lead follow or get the fuck out of the way.” they make things their concerns to cover their asses , id rather not be a pawn, but i am no ones knight either >D, , >August 2 at 6:31pm · Like
>Deacon Gray ?*chuckles* Ryu my friend, you are one of the only people I know who can make a lulliby sound like a threat to people who don’t know you. I don’t get too worked up, I mean all he is really saying is let vamps deal with vamp stuff. I let Otherkin deal with their stuff with out being offended…not being on a otherkin council or board doesn’t mean I am being discriminated against…it means I haev no stake in the topic >August 2 at 6:42pm · Like · 3
>Jessica Pedrick Donors should perhaps have a subset– just outside the House circle. Donors (sang) in this realm MUST be presented to Elders, approved, and have signature-documentation that they are House approved. If they fuck up after that, the family and surrounding Houses need to be notified. A bit more lenient on psi/psy Donors due to the feeding nature. perhaps. thoughts? >August 2 at 11:54pm · Like · 3
>Ryu Reborn I like that >Friday at 12:26am via mobile · Like
>Riss Kokaine Booth I love the idea Jess. I think that a crystal swan should be held at the same level as any other. There’s still a deep connection being created and should still be held as that. It can damage both parties as well as build. >Friday at 12:31am via mobile · Like · 1
>Miyuki W. Co that might not be a bad idea. sounds interesting. hpe everything works out okay. >Friday at 12:36am · Edited · Like
>Miyuki W. Co ?*hope >Friday at 12:36am · Like
>Jessica Pedrick With Ryu’s blessing, I’ll write something up in more detail. >Friday at 12:46am · Like · 1
>Damian Nightwalker im working on somthing big but it is slow going >D, , >Friday at 1:23am · Like
>Riss Kokaine Booth Anything that takes time Damian is worth doing. if I may ask what are you working on? >Friday at 1:25am via mobile · Like
>Damian Nightwalker well thats a rather loaded question as i give most of my free time and even time while im doing other work, ewrc. and always on something , but this is a donor vampire thing, a registy >D, , >Friday at 1:29am · Like
>Darci Huddleston Idk if I posted this here or in another thread, anyways…I’ve always considered donor/vampire relations to be a private thing. If something comes up that affects donors, then yes they should have a say in what’s going on. They are people with their own thoughts and feelings so they should be considered as well…in private. Idk why they would even want to be involved in Vampire politics/ drama anyways. >Friday at 10:25am · Like
>Deacon Gray There is not levels between Donors and Vampires, just differences. Please don’t make the mistake in thinking a donor out there somewhere isn’t smarter, stronger, a better energy user, a better user of craft, more faithful…or whatever you want to call it. >I am not saying you have to accept them into your organizations, but insulting them isn’t helpful. >Respect and Honor are both important attributes in the community, and to those outside it. If we have a higher level, it should be in not getting into the frey with people who could sustain us, and help us. >Friday at 12:43pm · Like · 1
>Ryu Reborn Deacon, I respect your view and to some point agree with you, but they are food and need to remember their place and that place is not at our side to have a say in our community. >Friday at 4:07pm · Like · 1
>Victorya Upyra First of all I am glad for this group which upholds to civil and diverse opinions. I would share this once my own on the topic of Donors/Swans, Yes, I agree that if it is a consensus, a Community may chose to include or not include donors, within any dynamic within such Community. Yet, I also believe that a Donor/Swan could in accordance to a given relationship; be our one night bliss; our partner, end even a Soul Mate or life partner, shall a Vampyre be so fortunate. In other cases, a casual or even cherished friend. I am grateful to the highest degree to all Donors who feel regard, and at times love and compassion, for the needs of Vampyres. I do not want to categorize all Donors. I speak of those who are united to us Vampyres and the VC, in their own unique, yet helpful way. >Friday at 4:46pm · Like
>Michael J. Forrester Following the standard formula of Sanguines, I see your point. The problem is that the whole Community is too varied. Maybe it’s time to accept the idea that the VC will always be cliques? >Friday at 8:21pm · Like
>Ryu Reborn True >Friday at 8:53pm via mobile · Like · 1
>Armitage Soulshroude Reminds me of Lodge (being a Freemason) all brothers who are not members of a specific Lodge and are only visiting, do NOT have voting rights when petitions come up for nomination or a committee team needs to be formed, where Lodge money goes, etc. ONLY active members that pay their dues to said Lodge are allowed to vote.
>I think Houses should follow the same rule. Donor’s should have no political or voting rights even if they are part of a House and have been a member of that House since it’s inception. They should only have privileges and voting rights when it is something that concerns them as donors. Nothing more.
>But… to each their own. >Saturday at 7:03am · Edited · Like · 3
>James Mallory I believe they’re called “Black Swans”. Those who support the vampyre lifestyle but do not wish to be vampyre. >Saturday at 7:17am via mobile · Like
>Armitage Soulshroude I think we need to reiterate that statement, James. One cannot, “wish” to be a vampi/yre. Either one is a vampi/yre or one is NOT. As well, who said anything about a, “lifestyle”? Some of us are vampi/yre because of our, “need to feed”. We don’t live the lifestyle, We are vampi/yre. Period. >Saturday at 7:24am · Edited · Like · 4
>James Mallory True, you’re right Armitage. >Saturday at 7:26am via mobile · Like
It gets BETTER! She took screen shots. (Click to see bigger, okay?)
![]( "Ryu #1")
[personalrant]
I am seriously pissed. I understand why Miss Anonymous sent this to me. I don’t do much on facebook, and am not a member of this group, so no, I wouldn’t have seen it if I -were- active on fb. But dear fucking Lord and Lady. I am not a chew toy, happy meal, what have you, and my place is NOT on the gods damned table, to be seen/eaten and not heard. And if you actually agree with this shit, and I considered you to be a friend *glares*, don’t talk to me for a good long while. I might not agree with all of you on every little thing that comes across our “desks” here, but I DO respect each of you and your position that you hold in the community.
The thing that SERIOUSLY pisses me off? Seriously? The member list. The fact that I was told about this by a person I barely know and yet, I recognize quite a few of the names that I edited out for their privacy. Especially my supposed friends. I definately thought you all had my back and treated me with respect, but did any of you even HINT to me that this kind of shit was happening? If you really think that someone like me has no place in the VC, I’d prefer it if you said it flat out to my face. Y’all have my phone number.
[/personalrant]
Not so personal bit.
Is it just me, or is Ryu going further and further off the deepend? Donors aren’t the first thing he’s gone after, and I’m sorry, but they way he wrote is A) fractured and not really coherent in parts. Coming from me, that’s saying something. And B) I pity his poor donor, because the way he described it, it sounds like an unhealthy bdsm relationship. Hell, it sounds scarily like my abusive ex, and replace donor with girlfriend/fiancee, and you can see why I’m pissed and scared. I’m *this* close to giving into the panic attack.
So yeah, Ryu is on my shit list, and honestly? Way to make me feel like shit. Hope you’re proud.
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sounds more like sub than donor. But i would say agreements on what is right and how it will be for the donor should be agreed upon before anything. Also interesting how its all about the vampires like they are the only/best things around.
You are food period point blank. What is used as nourishment is food. You are just overly emotional happy meals which would make you emo meals. Do your research little donors on the community before hand and what you were treated like. There was no consent it was taken and thatwas your last breath. This is why your leashes should be held tight because given a few inches of freedom you quickly try to become part of something you will NEVER be. You all bitch you understand yet I have not seen one understand the purpose of the threads which are NOT the buisness of food. You are respected and treated well but have no place at vampyric tables or buisness. Have you asked your burger latley how you should run your house? Or be with you family. I didn’t think so.
hun you need to learn diplomacy. sometimes silence is better than opening your mouth. take some time to think and be sure . this comes ut like a venomous rant, you should be commenting on how your veil was broken, especially when some one calls them self a swan, (that’s a east coast term and issue. all of the above also displays youth ) relax etc
D, ,
I am pretty good at diplomacy unfortunatly when my mind becomes engulfed with individuals who are truly hypocritical well i tend to loose my cool a tad. I feel every ones opinions are valid, it does not mean one must live by the others words or opinions but that you agree to disagree. I find no reason to take anothers opinion and turn it into a slaughter fest simply because said person was too close minded to just say, well you are entitled to your opinion but i must respectfully disagree and go about stating there reasons if such is there wishes. I stand by my statement with no regrets and am not one to change my story if confronted by someone in person, especially over a monitor. Let us be honest alot of those who are bad mouthing and speaking of how disrespectful some of us are because of our opinions well lets just say there courage comes from the security of a screan. I feel donors are food, yes, should they be respected? Of course they choose to feed us, and in such they recieve protection love exc exc, but well obviously they cannot handle this manner in a calm,cool and discreet manner why would we allow them to take part of our intamit community? Yes there are fellow Vampi/yres who do the same but well they arent looked at so kindly either. The fact of the matter is we are ALL entitled to our opinions and beliefs as long as we are not out there trying to convert the world it shouldnt matter. Which is exactly what this thread is trying to achieve, to gain the sympathy and support of anyone who will listen and those who do not have the mentality to know there are more than just 1 side of a story will believe anything.
Ayo who cares about how u feel. What u feel don’t matter to none of us. you don’t even have the balls to get off your little blog and face ryu.let alone any of us. Truly, just because your a piece of meat don’t get mad. And just because you’re not included in any of this don’t hate. its sad that the only way you could get info is thru abuddy u have in the group, im not even phased by it. don’t be mad because even after all this hardwork you put in to try to make us and Ryu look bad, ppl kin or not are still going to love him and respect us. Si seriously don’t be
Kid your doing a good job at making your self look bad. this is like her posting saying something that didn’t even need to be said.(you want a girl to face a man in combat? it is fin of they are both students, but i don’t think she has any training) again relax.
D, ,
Your ignorance precedes you… You are food to us. Nothing else. Maybe friends at some point but that is all. You do not belong at the table of Vampyrics unless you are on it. You are lucky we are not still in the dark day or you wouldn’t even have freedom to your opinion. We act with civility towards our donors and of course thank them for what they do. But if you cannot act with honor and civility towards us then you have no room to even consider yourself a donor. Your rudeness will come back to you three fold and the Vampyric community will sit back and laugh at your mistakes. I hope you learn your place and humility.
Humility should come from anyone’s better young lady. it would be better to not speak than say some of what you have said. every house is different, it should be as that house or court works etc. if they have a donor rep that is that reps place, if not , then what does it mater, what is not said or done is not said or done, and it will not be commented on relax
D, ,
Seems you have his whole role play group ganging up on your blog here. The guy is a fucktard of the first order, and is more likely to do something stupid and get his RP group arrested for the crap he promotes than anything. Just wait until some real psycho comes across him and tries his fucked up attitude and leads the police back to his door to remove the kids from his house.
ONE to talk. your welcome to try and knock me on my ass, not going to happen, you should try to act more like a lady.(they don’t make threats)
D, ,
I am left to wonder how some of the previous people to reply manage to find and maintain donors. I don’t personally know of any blood drinking vamp who just attack people and take their blood without permission. In this day and age that is assault. Not to mention the number of illnesses you are opening yourself up to. It would be a very stupid vamp indeed who engaged in such practices.
It sounds like many of you are talking about fictional fantasies rather then realities since many donors are married to or in long term relationships with their vamps.
I feel we as a community are lucky to have donors who are active members of the community. Donors who want to be donors rather then people who are obligated to donate. I think it is a very good thing for the community.
If your donors are into the BDSM scene and happen to also be chew toys and happy being just food that is one thing as yes it is your choice and your relationship. Not all donors are just food and not all donors are chew toys. If you want your way respected it is best to treat everyone as if they follow your way.
Personally I do hope she and other donors learn their place as valued members of the community. I would also love it if people living in their own fantasy world would quit insisting the rest of us play along.
that should say best not to treat everyone as if they follow your way.
My name is in this list and I didn’t ok it. Remove it or I’m reporting it.
love all the roleplayers up there who cant even use their real names🙂. more like maggots instead of vamps those three.
Pain engine is your real name? you been in the community long? most vampires do not use their real name I do, but i also do not role play.
D, ,
I have a donor who I treat with respect. I show great respect out of the fact that they offer up their life essence to us. But to see a thread in which we were blatantly talking about how donors are complaining about how they should have a say in vampyric matters. The only say that they have is how they are treated if they choose to be a donor as well as how they are cared for. Vampyric matters simply are not the business of donors and as such they need to stop getting butt hurt over this fact and stop spreading this propaganda while skewing it to sound like we are insane. The media never portrays our lifestyle properly and it is a shame to see someone want so much attention to have to attack our community with disrespect just because they have issues with Ryu.
I have always maintained that for donors to be effective and well informed, they need to be active in the community. I agree that there are some issues that we as donors just can not fully understand(just as I am sure there are some issues that we donors have that vampires can not fully understand), While this is true, the largest number of issues presented in the public forums of the VC/OVC are things that all members of the community should be concerned with.
And I agree with those above that feel the first few replies sound more Role Play then real life.
Some have mentioned that if we donors do not like their views and were to say “no more”, that they could always find donors to take our place. Or that they could “go back to the old ways and take it” Good luck with that, I hope you enjoy your time in jail.
This blog may have been posted in anger, but it points out what in my opinion is a serious issue in the community.
actually i think this shows that donors should not be that involved, this is now a public issue aired to the general public not just donors. if you are a trustworthy donor, your going to have no issues just like the individual private arrange meant you and your vampire have. but putting private peoples business on blast, despicable this posting should not exist.
D, ,
The following linked article was placed on the SA Vampyre News site this morning in response to the disgraceful comments made by Ryu as well as many of the appalling comments made on the comment thread on this blog. http://savampyrenews.wordpress.com/2012/08/07/sava-community-wide-statement-on-the-promotion-of-donor-abuse/
i would not say it is donor abuse. that is a allegation, and a libelous slander you might want to retract. and remember it was a private group not a public group. this was a tirade just as any rant. ill be seeing your article and commenting,. it is looking like it is not going to b a positive comment,
D, ,
This was posted in a public space with donors present – it was a private group. you really have some issues with what you think abuse is. i would say name calling is kiddy stuff. id comment but 9 comments seem to be locked
D, ,
I am appalled at the statements in the article as well as most of the comments made on this post by apparent “vampires”! While new communities in South Africa, India and Norway etc are working to build our communities, and to find people willing to be regular donors and to build the image of our community as a whole, retards like this come along and post sheer LARP-inspired Vampyre supremacist crap in public social spaces, and for all intents and purposes sabotaging our efforts!
It’s an embarrassment to the whole Vampyre community – and worse, it makes us all look like a bunch of neo-Nazi thugs hunting for victims, not donors. All Ryu still needs to do after this little stunt is to go on prime time TV and rip out a news anchor’s spine on camera.
can you learn to be pc and get off your soap box. many places already have communities they are just not the level you are on, you have not much to work with but you do have that bleeding heart. i worked with the mentally handy capped and i find you derogatory comment offensive.
you know you pattern your whole world after the world those East coast vamps use. right down to the halos. (does that make your effort any less larp ?cute you watch true blood.
you should hope this dirty laundry does not work in the same fashion in your neck of the jungle.
it all irritates me, but you were on that judicial bs wit5h ryu before hand,
sad it looks like your just grandstanding and throwing him under the bus . it is not like wraiths. it is just words and sentiment, think please, you threw all KINDS of nonsense at me when we first argued, Not true, stuff news needs to be true, i know you made up your own law in 5 minutes when you first got online as a vampire, but does it not have anything about privacy and discreteness.?
D, ,
I think this site holds some real great info for everyone😀. “Anybody who watches three games of football in a row should be declared brain dead.” by Erma Bombeck.
LOL at Octarine, too funny🙂 [quote]All Ryu still needs to do after this little stunt is to go on prime time TV and rip out a news anchor’s spine on camera.[/quote]
Look… this is 2012, folks. Donors are no more property than anyone else is. Slavery was outlawed a long time ago. Donors do a service for their vampires and in allowing us to benefit from their giving natures. That should be appreciated by anyone not willing to settle for animal blood or any other donor substitute. No one who abuses or disregards the feelings of their donors deserves to have said donor. Donors have the right to walk away and when they feel abused they SHOULD do so. I would never encourage an abused wife or husband to stay with a mate and I certainly dont encourage a donor to stay with any Vampire who doesnt appreciate them.
When it comes to community affairs I believe Donors SHOULD be involved. NO, I don’t think donors should RUN the affairs of the Vampire community, but they deserve to have a say, especially when it comes to matter than affect them as donors. In offering themselves to a Vampire the donor takes on all the same risks that Vamps do in the feeding process. They deserve to be involved when their health or emotional well being is involved. I don’t know ANY donors who want to run the Vamp community or make rules that don’t involve donor issues. I do not commonly see donors overstepping any serious community boundaries. I don’t think thats even an issue, to be honest, so I don’t see where the kind of disrespect being shown in the article is at all appropriate.
At the same time, I believe there are aspects of being a Vampire that cant be understood by Donors and should indeed be left to Vampires. Just as we Vampires can’t fully understand the nature of our Donors or what drives them to be the giving compassionate people I know them to be, neither do I believe Donors can entirely understand what drives those of us who drink blood and live with all that comes with being what we are. Vampires have no place dictating rules in the Donor community, and the same is true of Donors involved in the Sang community.
Respect is the essential component to making it all work. What I see Ryu expressing, while not politically correct, is still his opinion and as such he is entitled to it. Personally it makes me sad when what should be discretionary discussions are flung out in public to offend those we should respect most. Its one thing to think such things or have such personal opinions or discussions with ones inner circle and quite another to wash to ones laundry in public, offending a lot of good people in the process. It shows a clear lack of respect for the ones who give their very life blood to sustain us.
TLDR? While Vampires are entitled to their opinion, what was said was rude. Donors deserve our respect and discretion. Ryu should know better.
There is something simple here Lady CG. were saying property, but it is willful servitude not slavery. the main issue besides this airing of private groups posting ( it was private), is the keeping vampiric business vampiric, regardless of issues that do not concern donors.
But, that is not a respect issue,
D, ,
I cant believe some of the responders on this blog actually exist in the VC. I am appalled.
I don’t have balls. My name is marissa ravosa, and check it out I don’t walk around with fangs or dressing like a goth. And to keep it funky, yall are a bunch if pussies. Im appaulled, bitch you disgust me. Who gives a flying fuck were in America and nobody wants it from us. Trust me on this.. at least i’m being me in everyway and ill tell each one of you to go fuck yourself. Trying to act all high and mighty please who’s really the role player. guess what i’m in the real community, your on the internet. Who’s a role player?
Marissa;🙂 not everyone here is American *smiles* The Vampire community is international.
Nice spelling and grammar, by the way. I wonder if you stopped to actually read what you wrote before you posted it. Very sad from someone trying to come across as all tough and stuff
*chuckles good naturedly
not even saying more
D, ,
“the old ways are upheld here. honor, pride, respect and diginty [dignity].”
There is no honor in referring to other people as if they are less than yourself. There is no respect in claiming that their opinions can hold no value, especially when donors are just as much a part of the community as vampires are. There is no dignity in pretending that one is superior to another, and calling them things such as “chew toys” and “happy meals” in a condescending manner as if that is all that they are. The only value displayed is pride, except that it’s over-inflated and therefore damaging (ever heard of someone with a big ego, now you’ve seen it). So unless these “old way” values are the same perversions of nature that lead to slavery, abuse, and a general deterioration of society, then I fail to see how they have been upheld.
I am a vampire, and I’ll be damned if I ever come to see donors in the way Ryu and some others have chosen to portray them. I admit, sometimes when the hunger is tearing me apart inside, it’s hard to view other people as people, which is really what this all boils down to. At least I still try. The fact is, what we are does not make us better than anyone else. My donor is my equal in every way (though in some ways I would argue that she is better than me, for example, she judges people less harshly than I do). If I ever see her as just food, a “chew toy”, less than I am, someone whose opinion doesn’t matter, Pixie, I want you to go all stabby on me, literally.
As a final note, those pictures amidst the comments were just mind-blowing. Outside of context, the first one wouldn’t be too bad (as a depiction of fictional vampiric lore), but the second one is still distasteful. In context, depraved, disgusting, and shameful are the words that come to mind for me, I mean really, can you get any more disrespectful towards donors than portraying them like that?
Also, as a vampire, I’m really ashamed of how those others have written. I apologize for their disrespect, and I hope that any donors affected by this will have the fortune of meeting vampires who aren’t so confused.
I am absolutely disgusted by the way my supposed fellow vampyres have spoken and the narcissistic, arrogant manner in which they speak to and about donors. It makes me feel physically ill.
No, perhaps I’m not terribly involved in the OVC anymore, but this childish drama and superiority complexes that seem to run rampant through the OVC is part of why I left. I am grateful that I did not directly interact with vampyres who held so little honor for their donors, else I would likely have gone mad.
Why give donors a say in the vampyre community? Because they, unlike the cattle that are slaughtered for our food, are sentient. They are human, and should be treated with the respect due their humanity. They give up a precious resource for your benefit. They are philanthropists, not livestock. They have every right to look out for their own interests and to make sure that vampyres like this do not enact policy in their Houses that support donor abuse. They have the right and expectation to be treated as the valuable members of the VAMPYRE COMMUNITY that they are. If this entails sitting on House councils alongside vampyres, then so be it.
If donors are just food, then why even give them consent in the first place? Why even ask? If they’re just prey, just livestock or game, then why not lock them up or hunt them down and take what you want or need? If a donor has no say in what goes into a vampyre/donor relationship, then why is “donor” and “relationship” part of that description? That’s like saying the submissive has no say in what goes into a D/s relationship – FALSE. Subs have the power to say no, to say when enough is too much, and any Dom that ignores them immediately is guilty of rape, assault, and battery – crimes a vampyre would likely be considered guilty of as well if consent were not given. This is because DONORS ARE HUMAN.
Yes, they’re food, but they’re SENTIENT food, and any declaration as to a vampyre being superior to a donor because we have a DEFICIT that the donors supply the precious resource we require is like saying a homeless person is superior to the charity workers and donors. It simply is ridiculous. No person or group of people is superior to any other, though I am loathe to include those “vampyres” that spoke so disgracefully.
Pixie and Miss Anonymous, I’m glad you’re brave enough to speak up about this and to call these “vampyres” out on their disgraceful and abusive mindsets and speech, and thanks to SA Vampyre News for posting this. Props to all the sane, intelligent vamps out there like Octarine and Starline for standing up for our donors. As a vampyre currently without a donor, I’m learning the true value of a donor in a vampyre’s life, and I have always worked to make my donors feel loved and appreciated.
course we should know who your snitch is because they are not trustworthy, to such an extent. , this should not even be here i would say if it was not public you would still not be in your right to post it, but im sure no one is really understanding me even when my part in this was not as negative as others
D, ,
The fact this was from someones personal group is not lost on me, D.
But.. that said..
Its in the open now and it can’t be ignored at this point.
It now has to be dealt with. (and it SHOULD be dealt with) I have no idea who released the info and in the end it doesn’t matter. Its unlikely anyone is going to give that person up so I’ll deal with what I CAN deal with.
If we don’t protect and deal with the concerns of our Donors the community will find itself, all too soon, with an even greater shortage of donors than we have now.
Its right and appropriate that we do what we can to put our donors at ease and assure them the greater community supports them – which we DO.
– good to see you, by the way D🙂
People should really get through their heads that despite ryu’s group being “private” it really isn’t. People can have as many “private” groups and PMs and the like as you want but come on people! Once you post something it is NOT private- and this isn’t only on Facebook, it’s anywhere on the internet.
As somone in a group of mine said regarding that very thing:
“Privacy on the internet is an oxymoron”
She isnt wrong lol.
and you find that this is a legitamit excuse for what was done? But going by your own words, if you were to post something to a few close friends of yours, be it something personal that well you feel is truly none of there concern, say this was to get out and people quickly began assaulting you for your feelings and beliefs, rallying people to make you seem like a monster. Than go about posting it on any website they could put there hands on and no matter how much you or your friends tried to explain it and such well it didnt matter the ridicule continued. It would still be ok and nothing would be wrong with it because well ultimatley it was your fault for posting on the web.
*Do onto others as you would have done on to you darling*
And just incase you wish to turn that quote on me for my regards on donors well i would never put myself in such a position because well lets just say thats not me.
[…] doubt most local participants in the SA VC will have noticed the drama on various VC news sites, blogs, Facebook groups, and profile walls involving SAVA, myself and others. At the crux of this matter […]
this clip should be called NASTY PIXIE THE DISRESPECTFULL VAMPYRE DONOR CUNT FUCKED HARDCORE!
http://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=687535318