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Considering how Silva, De Bruyne are blossoming under Pep in CM, is Mata being mismanaged? (self.reddevils)

opacino が 投稿

Is Mata being mismanaged or his he not as good as Silva or De Bruyne who are bossing the midfield. Is it the tactics that is hurting Mata or maybe no team mate is on his wavelength?

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[–]Moyesehh 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

NO

[–]theshadowgod 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

No Mata is just not on their level. Simple as that.

[–]OTownTrillaFoRilla 12ポイント13ポイント  (20子コメント)

Silva and KDB would blossom under my Sunday league manager who drinks beers during matches. Pep inherits ready made teams.

[–]manutd_ 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

KDB / Silva would normally be thought of as 'luxury' attackers under other coaches with low defensive workrates but Pep is making them bust their gut in terms of pressing and off the ball movement.

Hes extracting insane workrates from players who'd otherwise not do the dirty work.

[–]tocitusMemphis 5ポイント6ポイント  (17子コメント)

Oh come on. City aren't a ready made team - they have some very good players but so do we and last season showed how badly they can play when not managed properly.

Pep has done a good job at city to get them all playing his way so quickly.

[–]PX44 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

I'd rather have their midfield than ours, and I'm not saying that in a reactionary way, I'm saying that's been the case for years. We still have a ton of mediocrity there and/or players we need to replace because of age.

[–]tocitusMemphis 5ポイント6ポイント  (6子コメント)

City's midfielders going into this transfer window were seen as Yaya Toure, Fernandinho, Delph and Fernando which is pretty trash.

Pep is the one playing KDB and Silva as CMs and he is the one who has brought in Gundogan to join them.

[–]manutd_ 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Hes not only playing them as CM hes making them do so much dirty work which they would consider 'beneath' them in other setups where they would be the premier attacking players.

[–]tocitusMemphis 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yup I've got to give credit to him because I didn't think he'd have this kind of an effect this quickly.

That City team looks so different from last year it's scary and Mourinho is the one who looks like he's having a more difficult time getting his team up to scratch.

Now you can argue they have a better team (and they do) but largely I don't think there is much in it except for the KDB + Silva positions, they've just settled down a lot quicker than we have.

I just hate seeing this subreddit blindly stating that Pep has an easy job.

[–]PX44 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hmm I guess I tend to see 10 as midfield (kinda) in my head so lumped in KDB and Silva

I mean yeah if you remove them that kills it a lot lol

[–]darkcoolster 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Fernandinho isn't trash, he's very good

[–]tocitusMemphis 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Right but that isn't what I was saying. A collective midfield of Yaya Toure, Fernandinho, Delph and Fernando is trash regardless of how good Fernandinho is.

[–]darkcoolster 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sorry, thought you meant individually

[–]arron77 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If he takes them to win the CL then fair enough but realistically they had the best squad in the PL.

Had Pellegrini not given up after the Pep announcement they probably would have won the league last season.

[–]danskzwag -1ポイント0ポイント  (7子コメント)

Aguero, Fernandinho,Silva, KDB have been City's best performers. Not like they were bought by Pep. City underperformed for years

[–]tocitusMemphis 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

And Kolarov looked like an embarrassment to them, Sterling had a dreadful first season and Zabaleta was considered done. Pep has come in and picked them up (especially Kolarov and Sterling).

You can't claim they're a ready made team when you look at how dreadful their players were last season and how different those players look under Pep.

He's done a great job picking their players up and deserves credit, not being dismissed so casually.

[–]manutd_ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lets wait till end of the season. Hes making his players work more than Klopp. We may see a slump at the end of the season.

[–]darkcoolster -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Kolarov looked amazing at the start of last season too, Gary was singing praises of him at MNF. Might want to wait a few months before rating him

[–]danskzwag -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

Kolarov had a good start to the season last season , Sterling is probably the best english talent since rooney they underperformed its that simple.

[–]tocitusMemphis 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I just don't understand why people can't give Pep credit. It's not being disloyal to United by saying that he's a very good manager and he's doing a very good job at City already.

Claiming he's coming into a ready made team at City is absolutely ludicrous because that gives the idea that regardless of what he does, City will still perform well and win games. Last season showed that isn't the case.

[–]wbremen9 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Since Pep is not managing United so he is fraud.. that's the thought here. I absolutely agree with you that Pep is doing a great job at City, and honestly it really pains me to say that. I just cannot believe that he has got them playing that brand of football in mere 2 months time, I know they have players who are intelligent and good footballer but still. Pep's biggest test will come in November-December when fixtures come thick and fast, since that's one thing he is not used to. He has always managed teams who play in 3 competition every year so he knows what to do there but Christmas period is new to him so we have to see how he manages the squad there. To be honest, Jose has always been very proud of winning the league in England since we know and I agree that it's tougher league to win than In Germany or Spain due to competition. If Pep wins the league, that would be a kick in the teeth for Jose.

[–]danskzwag 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Im not being disloyal city underperformed enormously last season its still one of the best squads regardless

[–]IwishIwasGoku 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If it's that easy then why did they finish 4th ahead of us on goal difference when we were decidedly terrible for a large part of the season?

Because it isn't that easy. I get that they're our rivals but give credit where it's due.

[–]yiyiyiyiPogba 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

Mata has been a bit mismanaged through out his entire time at United. If you want to get the best out of him you need to accommodate him a bit more than we have. The issue is whether he warrants it or not.

Silva and De Bruyne are better and different players. De Bruyne is really physically gifted, he can run all day and he's powerful. Silva is more mobile and a better play maker. Mata is a good finisher, but not as good as De Bruyne and he's a good passer but nowhere near as good as Silva.

To be honest Mata is pretty similar to Rooney in a way. Both are maybe better at finishing moves than participating in the build up. Mata gives you a bit more consistency and control than Rooney but Rooney will probably get more goals.

[–]NGU-BenPogba -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

Mata shouldn't have been here in the first place.

[–]Sir_Wayne_GiggsyPidier 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

At the time Mata was an excellent signing.

[–]yiyiyiyiPogba 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yep, definitely a panic buy to try save Moyes' season.

That said, he's been alright for us and given us some good moments. Played virtually every game for Van Gaal and scored in the cup final.

[–]arron77 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It was a stupid signing but at the end of the day he is a top quality (tier below world class) player and the type of level of player we should have to be an option in our team.

[–]Cntz_be_like 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

How can you compare Mata to KDB and Silva? Lul.

[–]DresdanPI 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's the mindset. Ours has been pretty poor and negative over the last 2-3 years. It's worrying that our midfielders and attackers can't find space when the their teammate has the ball, and when they can the player on the ball avoids passing them and goes out wide.

It's happened for a while now.

[–]wbremen9 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's debatable if Mata would flourish under Pep or not however Pep and Mourinho have 2 different philosophies when it comes to setting up teams and playing football. If you see, Pep has been playing Silva and KDB in a midfield 3. Mourinho will never play, players of this physical stature in his team in center of midfield since Mourinho's philosophy is that you need, strong, physical players to play there and that's why he has been picking the likes of Fellani. Pep has complete different process, off course he want his players to be strong but more important aspect is off the ball movement, technique to keep the ball in tight spaces and intelligent, intricate short passing to create space for themselves and others and he knows KDB and Silva are 2 of the best in the league when it comes to those attributes and that's why they are flourishing under Pep. The kind of football Mourinho plays, their skills may not be utilized fully and they may not be as effective due to tactics deployed by Mourinho. However, you cannot blame Mourinho for having a different philosophy or tactic, he has his own way of doing things, question is can he be effective. We have to accept that we will not be playing as attractive football as Pep's team, so results are important. In my view, this is a big test for Jose, he has coveted this job for years and now he has it. But at the same time he has his biggest competitor and nemesis (to a certain extent) across the city, who is a brilliant coach. Mourinho has to show that his football may not be attractive but it will win trophies and we have to wait till May for that to happen. Mourinho has criticized Pep indirectly that he has gone to leagues or managed teams where a kit man can coach and win the league, so this is the moment of truth.

[–]opacino[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

since Mourinho's philosophy is that you need, strong, physical players to play there

I disagree. Mourinho played Alonso and Khedira. He bought Modric to play in that midfield. He played Di Maria in midfield. These guys are not giants or necessarily physical.

[–]black_squireMartial 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

KdB and silva play in a midfield 4. Their current formation is 4-1-4-1 with nolito and sterling as the outside 2.

[–]youngsahaLVG 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

By that logic you could say that every player in the world who isn´t as good as Silva and De Bruyne are mismanaged.

[–]the_special_juanhakuna matata 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes and no.

To anyone who said Mata is not on their level is correct as of right now, but everyone agreed he was one of the best players in the prem when we bought him - so it's not like he can't be that good either.

But it does come down to tactics and playing style too - at Chelsea, he was the focal point for creating chances and the team was built around him. This is not the case here. He had 4-5 months with Moyes, everybody thought he would regain his form under LVG but he played in the RW most of the time and turns out LVG's tactics are really suffocating, and Mourinho plays counter-attack.

I personally think he has improved under Mourinho so far but I think my verdict is that he probably shouldn't have joined us back in January (it was understandable, but in hindsight probably not the right thing to do). I really like him as a player and a person but the truth is, he's not going to be able to get back to that consistent form here due to a large variety of reasons.

[–]Buck-wild_7uckstyle 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He just isn't that good. Cannot beat players, cannot shield the ball, many sideways passes and lack of urgency. Until Mkhi is fit, I hope we see more of Young.

[–]Livettletlive 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

A lot of delusion in this thread. It's not whether or not Mata is being missuded or missmanaged. Or whether Mata is good enough or not, Pep is just a different, better manager when it comes to bringing the best out of players like him.

Not saying that Mata hasn't been better so far under Mou, but the tactics Pep employs just suits players like him and Silva better.

In other words, it's not all about Mata, but rather how the other players around him play with him.

De Bruyne was utter shit under Mou when he was at Chelsea, and "suddenly" got better for VFL and City? No.