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Formation and Tactics Discussion (self.reddevils)

jxclemMartial が 投稿

In the interest in not bogging the sub down with posts about tactics/formation. I thought I'd create this thread.

I have seen countless suggestions about a 4-3-3 system and the way should look and play. I'm not sure that with our current squad that I believe that system suits us best.

Personally, I think I'd favor a 4-1-2-1-2.

We lack true wingers. Can Young/ Valencia/Mata/Memphis get the job done? Sure. But I don't think it'd be consistent enough to make the system work. Besides with the issues at RB (though I believe in Darmian) I'd almost rather see Valencia there as he can make overlapping runs to match Shaw's on the left side.

Furthermore, I feel like we'd play much better with two strikers. I think it would lead to better build up play and a more dynamic attack. Preferably putting Rash/Martial alongside Ibra/Rooney.

Behind the strikers I think we'd have plenty of options. I'd like to see Pogba/Mhki/Mata there. On the sides/wings in the midfield (depending on how wide we play) any mix of Pogba/Young/Herrera/Fellaini/Memphis/TFM/Lingard.

Schneiderlin/Carrick/Blind should be fine in front of the back four, which could be Shaw on the left, Bailly and Smalling in the middle, Darmian/Valencia on the right.

That's just what I think.

What do you guys think?

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[–]legojs 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

The thing we have been lacking in the past 3 years are OFF THE BALL MOVEMENT and THE PLAYERS MINDSET / PRESSING IN THE FRONT.

Whenever a player gets the ball, many of our players either sit and do nothing, or just run aimlessly expecting the player to hoof the ball to him exactly where he wants. In reality, that doesn't work as well. We're so bad at going into empty spaces, Making smart runs or giving help to the player with the ball surrounded by the opponents.

We're just sitting as we're used to lvg's tactics and it was clear that whenever we had an opportunity in the sides or the middle, we tended to pass it to the back somehow.

There were clearly options that Herrera had - either to the front or diagonally, he decides to either gives it sideways or even backwards.

Players mindset became "im gonna play safe and give it back to someone who has more space and time in the back" it feels like its stuck in them. They don't try to get out of the situation by doing dribbles or shielding etc. They just simply pass it backwards, which frustrates me. Press harder, do more one twos, seek help and pass fast. Our tempo is so slow.

you know what the worst part is? We got no winning mentality or passion/spirit. It seems like the players don't, at least. Where's the fighting spirit? I dont see it. Maybe its just me. No ambition at all. Same ol' - we're trailing, let's start the long balls which will eventually be blocked or not be in fruition.

[–]TheReplacerMkhitaryan 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

You get it. People are like why are all the Spanish teams so good.

OFF THE BALL MOVEMENT, PRESSING

That's why.

[–]legojs 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm just very frustrated that no one addressed this problem to the club - or the club hasn't been listening. This is a core problem that we've been having for years since Fergie left. He at least gave players motivation that allowed players to do that somehow miraculously. But hey, what do I know.

edit: also, we have couple of Spanish players and I remember Herrera and Mata linking up pretty well the first season with LvG. I was impressed, but idk what happened - either they're now used to the typical English football mindset or they're voices cant be heard/addressed

[–]TheReplacerMkhitaryan 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Mata played a Chelsea before he came and Herrera played at Athletic Bilbao, not Barca or Real.

[–]legojs 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Doesn't change the fact they had their spanish instincts. I know both facts and I counted them both as I was replying. Mata was at Valencia and was a youth product of Real Madrid.

[–]TheReplacerMkhitaryan 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, Maybe LvG just coached the whole team to shit.

[–]bonorcrown 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

We don't need to change formation we just need to press the ball properly and do something with it when we've got it. We sat way too deep off them and could never really get up the pitch quickly enough without fudging a pass somewhere. I feel like we're missing a midfield maestro who can work the space better and keep things ticking over to get us into good positions.

[–]cadallimore 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think we have a lot of great wide talent (Martial, Memphis, Mkhi, Lingard and Rashford are all good players) it's just they play as inverted wingers.

That's not a bad thing, but it creates a problem when the space they create by moving inside is given to, essentially, 2 CBs (Darmian/Rojo are about CB quality in attack).

I think we need a 433 to get the best out of our squad, but, like any formation, it's not gonna work if the players aren't suitable. This is what happened today.

Our back 5 (Darmian, Bailly, Smalling, Rojo and Schneiderlin) lacked any quality passers. What was the consequence? Pogba and Herrera dropping deep to collect the ball, effectively receiving it in the same zones as if they were playing in a two-man midfield. As a result, we couldn't link attack and defence.

Going forward, there are a number of obvious improvements that I expect to see:

1) Actual fullbacks that can use the space the wide forwards create.

2) a decent passer (Herrera or Carrick) at the base of the midfield 3, or in CB (Blind), that can help with the first phase of getting the ball to Pogba/Fellaini/Herrera.

3) a cohesive pressing strategy - I think the players don't know whether to close down from the front or to let opposition build from the back. I think Mou doesn't want forwards to press and we've seen times where our forwards make pointless pressing runs, get passed around, and then we have a mismatch in midfield. My theory on this is that the players are not adapted to playing with low possession, so feel anxiety and need to try and get the ball immediately. This will come.

But, at the end of the day, I treat the Feyenoord game as a glorified pre-season match. New player combinations, new formation, 5 players without any minutes getting game time etc etc. Draw conclusions about our quality at your peril.

Also - I thought Pogba played well. I've seen him getting slayed on twitter etc and it's a joke. As in the City game, he should have won like 4 yellow cards for persistent fouling*, he always sought to move the ball forward, and he never shied away from receiving the pass. I couldn't be more confident about the quality of a player (doubt this is controversial, but I want it on the record).