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What are we missing? (self.reddevils)

mrpiggywinkles52Rooney が 投稿

Maybe some people will dismiss this as a shitpost, but personally to me it feels like United are missing something.

I've been very convinced watching City or Chelsea that they can win the league, they play a certain way, they get results that way.

To me, United are missing something and I'm not sure what, our performances haven't been great, lacklustre first half against Bournemouth and Southampton, failing to break down Hull etc. it is clear to me that the team is missing something not to mention the first half against City.

Is it a class 10? Is 4-2-3-1 getting a bit archaic? Are we limiting certain players by the formation. is it a case of not playing our best 11? Are players out of form? These are the questions I was pondering today. I was curious what other people think.

Personally I think we're not playing our best players. By that I mean in an attacking sense that playing Mata instead of Miki (when he is in form) is a mistake. I think also Pogba and Martial are adapting and out of form and Rooney is still getting his shit together.

But what does Reddit think?

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[–]An0therkShaw 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

We most definitely have a team that can win the league. I am in no way doubtful about that. What we are missing is structure. this doesn't come from a month of training. this takes up to a season to work. Van Gaal hammered his 'philosophy' into his players heads and Mourinho has a challenge on his hands to introduce his own in it's place. I really think the main reason Rooney is struggling is because Van Gaal's philosophy is so ingrained into his play style.

[–]gencelebiVan Persie 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Bring back the 4-4-2.

[–]Allard1994Good one Jose, good one. 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Giggs out of retirement.

[–]targeryianJones 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

We need to play with more pace. Switch to a 3 man midfield with people that will drive forward (Pogba/Herrera). Martial needs to run more off the ball and stop waiting for the ball to come to his feet - then he'll be more dangerous. Just gotta hope that Mkhi adapts to the league because he'll be the perfect man on the right hand side of the 3.

I still think Rooney in that number 10 role stifles attacks because he's not creative enough in my opinion. Some of his short passes are poor and he rarely beats his man but people will say because he gets an assist he shouldn't be dropped. We looked brilliant in a 4 3 3 in the second half and we should build on that.

Over all we're in a pretty good place I think in comparison to last season. I'm not worried but we do need someone to partner Pogba long term in midfield who's a bit more creative (Kroos type player) and maybe another defensive midfielder (in their prime so they don't block Fosu Mensahs development).

[–]mynameisnobody33 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

I agree...He just doesn't have the saviness that is required for that position. I honestly feel that once they get a proper number ten (i.e. Miki) playing in that position you will see the guys up top start to gel more.

The funny thing I've noticed is that Rooney looks more comfortable out on the wing. Switch their positions and I feel that our attack takes on a more dangerous element.

[–]targeryianJones 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think we should completely drop that formation and switch to a 4 3 3. Rooney is a brilliant player when he's not pressured but as soon as he gets pressed he struggles which is worrying.

We should play a 4 3 3 with Martial Ibra and Mkhi. Shaw and Valencia like to overlap as well so even if Martial/Mkhi do drift inside we've still got width. Look at us second half - we made Pep - self proclaimed Mr Beautiful football play defensive.

My only problem is I don't know who we play as a holding midfielder in that system.

[–]jbiresqHerrera 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Could put Blind there and put Smalling back as CB, though that means we lose his passing ability there. There are no obvious choices, though I think if we're playing a team like Arsenal or City with a good #10, Herrera can do a Ji-Sung Park job and track him.

[–]uncreddevilMartial 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Or, here's a maddening thought, we play MATA in the 10. His defensive capabilities have improved and he's still a master tactician. I know with the way we play, he might have to drop deeper and yes that can be an issue. But Martial/ Rashford are no better at it than he is. Herrera technically would satisfy the style Mou plays with but overall I think Mata would slot in quite well and jump start the giant of an office that I think hasn't completely awoke yet.

[–]Perks92 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I still think going back to having two strikers upfront at once would be nice

[–]silkie_blondoKing Dave 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well technically that is what we are doing, Rooney as the 2nd striker and Zlatan slightly advanced. But both have the tendency to drop deeper to pick up the ball though.

The only problem IMO of pairing Zlatan with Rashford is that we wouldn't have a striker to bring off the bench if needed unless of course Martial doesn't start but I think Martial has been fine this season. Hasn't had the blazing impact he showed last year but he hasn't been terrible either.

I don't even think Rooney considers himself as a striker anymore. CAM or midfielder is what I think he is trying to work towards to prolong his career.

[–]jammybearDe Gea 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

IMO pace through the middle. Both Rooney and Zlatan are occupying similar space and not making runs behind the defence, and it's causing issues.

[–]dolphin9999Wayne Pogboom 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The past seasons results are clouding your judgement

[–]shadowbanned32 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

A midfielder who's world class at keeping possession and making both short/long and penetrating passes. If we had a Veratti/Kroos and Schneiderlein behind Pogba we'd probably be a little more secure in the mid.

[–]ShacharPollak 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

2 words. Fear Factor

[–]orangucanBailly -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I still would like to see a 4-1-2-1-2 with wide wingers. We would need two wingers with a good workrate but I think Martial and Mikhi can deliver that. With Rashford/Rooney and Zlatan upfront it seems like a pacy and physically strong setup. Especially with Fellaini in #6. With Pogba/Mata in front of him. Any of them would have space to freely pass and move. Man, my dream setup for this team.

[–]alee1994 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

We are team that needs massive improvement compared to City and Chelsea so it going to take a bit longer for Jose to get everything right.

Don't forget that Chelsea won the league of seasons ago and City had the best squad last season and they were playing similar to this season, consistency was the issue. Chelsea had their dressing room problems which made the team under perform massively.

Although I am still not impressed with Chelsea as they are yet to win convincingly where they had full control of the game. They have been quite lucky in a couple of matches to not get red-carded but fortune favours the brave.

City were playing fast-flowing-ultra-attacking-football last season as well when media gave them the league only 5 games in. They were still a very good team with the best squad that was being tailored for Pep to take over.

For us, even though spending massively we brought in not so much good players. Came 7th, 4th, 5th. Our players have been brainwashed to play possession based football for 2 seasons which now comes naturally for some players as they had been training too much for this. Jose needs time to break their shackles and implement his ideas as he wants.

[–]Pro4TLZZ#WelcomeMourinho -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Direct play. Too much sideways passes.

[–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]alee1994 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    So you want possession? I bet you enjoyed the last 2 seasons...

    [–]black_squireMartial -4ポイント-3ポイント  (8子コメント)

    What we're missing is a tactician. The truth is, Mourinho has never been known to be a tactician. What Chelsea and City have in common are managers that can employ strong tactics to disarm opponents and make changes as time goes to reach different results.

    What we saw yesterday was Mourinho completely ignoring everything he knew about Guardiola and trying to employ zonal defense against a strong technical possession based team. In the second half, even with the change of formation, Mourinho's tactics were long ball and crosses into the box to try to get at Bravo or take advantage of the height disparity between our teams.

    Mourinho is a defensive coach. In terms of his attacks, he almost completely relies on players to utlize their individual quality to be more direct and create chances. I haven't read of Mourinho actually having an offensive tactic. He's more known for his defensive tactics. I perosnally think that's what we're missing. The league this year is full of tactical managers, Pep, Wenger, Guidolin, Conte, Puel and to lesser extent, Klopp, and if we're not much stronger than our opponents, which isn't looking very likely in the league right now, then tactically Mourinho could get outgunned very easily.

    [–]alee1994 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

    So Jose is not a tactician? Is playing defensive not a tactic or did he win 2 champions league with a fluke?

    If you saw the match against city Jose's tactics were absolute spot-on. Players let him down. Everybody agreed before the match that bringing Mkhi and Lingard is the correct decision, unfortunately, the players weren't upto the task.

    Long balls only came in when Pep got defensive, took his only striker off for a DM. Before that we were unfortunate not to get an equaliser.

    We were playing 4231 in the first half. Wingers didn't do what they were brought in for. Then Jose made 2 subs, changed formation to 433, which worked awesome. If this isn't tactics I don't know what is.

    [–]squeaky_rum_timeScholes 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    According to black_squire, LVG is the master tactician. What a silly cunt.

    [–]black_squireMartial -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Having an opinion unlike yours doesn't actually make me a cunt. But thanks for chiming in with meaningly discourse. Lovely contribution.

    [–]black_squireMartial -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Pep didn't actually get defensive. He just changed player roles. Fernando came on and replaced Fernadinho in the holding DM role pushing Fernadinho up next to Silva and freeing up DeBryne again from the man marking of Herrera.

    Surely defensive play is a tactic. But Mourinho himself has said his attacking philosophy is to wait on opponents to make mistakes when they have the ball and counter. Our only goal yesterday was from such mistake. Our goal against Hull was also from something similar. My point is, when you face a team equally as defensive or less prone to making mistakes, you have to employ attacking tactics. How to work the game to your advantage. I have never felt Mourinho has had that in any large capacity or has had to employ that as much as he will this season.

    Tournaments are a lot "easier" to get through because they are essentiall finals. Win and move on. If you can knick a last minute goal from a mistake etc you win the game as long as you ensure the opponent doesn't score. That's a lot harder to replicate over a 38 game season.

    DiMatteo won the UCL, would you consider him a tactician? All I'm saying is, Mourinho has consistently shown flaws when playing against equally matched teams.

    [–]alee1994 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    And Citys goals didn't come from our defensive mistakes?

    DiMatteo isn't a great example because he doesn't win the league regularly like Jose. So that was a fluke, they came 7th in the league that season. Jose has yet to finish below 3rd...

    [–]black_squireMartial 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    And how many clear cut chances did they create ? Their goals didn't come because they were waiting for our mistakes. They forced mistakes. KdB hit the bar twice and both were very well created chances. One got turned in from the rebound. We scored because their goalie dropped an easy cross and zlatan happens to have superb finishing.