TL;DR - "we need to be allowed to pollute a little so that CHYNA!^tm doesn't pollute a lot"

What about forcing, through various international pressures, treaties, economics, etc - China and others to stop polluting so much?

Furthermore, why doesn't Trump articulate any type of argument like the one you laid out here - in his official policy or issues? It's well and fine for you to say - but what about him? Why is he so absent on this subject - and since he is absent on this subject - who can really say, with any authority, what exactly it is that he actualy believes or will do on this wide-ranging issue of the environment?

I mean I get it - talking in theory is fun, but making the best possible looking straw-man for your candidate is still just an exercise in making a straw-man, it's not the real-man - why won't the real-man make himself known on this - is it because his positions on the environment would be unpopular, or because he just doesn't care - these seems like the only two choices - if he thought his positions on the environment were popular - certainly they would be listed prominently on his website and in his words, as well as if he cared about it at all - right? In other words - the silence is deafening - is it not?

Again, I am not sure where or how you were educated -but for the sake of a logical and sincere discussion - do you know what a non-sequitor is? Because you just made a non-sequitor. A non-sequitor ( something that does not logically follow the issue ) is a type of logical fallacy ( something that is logically false ) - where you use the rhetoric of avoiding the subject of the issue of "the environment" by asking a question about if two people, past presidents, have been worse than anti-environmentalism? In fact, this is, ironically, as Al-Gore said, a "red-herring" - another type of "logical fallacy" meaning that this question is meant to "mislead or distract from the issue" - you continue that up with another "logical fallacy" - that of the "ad-hominem" ( personal attack, instead of attacking the issue ) calling me a concerned troll.

Don't you see that you are the very thing you are accusing me of being, here? You are doing nothing but employing the non-sequitor, red-herring, and ad-hominem - is that really the best you can do to address the issues I raised in this thread? I understand that what I say makes you angry - I can hear the anger in your words - but maybe the intelligent thing to do is to think about why what I say makes you angry - is it because there is truth in them - and you imagined yourself vicariously through your candidate to be beyond reproach? This is a foolish way to be.

In regards to facts about how the USA can meaningfully fix the environment - this is part of the point of this thread - why has Trump not outlined a clear, coherent policy, of facts, actions and positions in how he as President in a Trump administration will and can meaningfully fix the environment? Why is this something that he has not done - and why is it something that you yourself are not asking of him, then? It is his job to do these kinds of things - and as America - the world leader - we must spearhead and take charge on the issue of the environment, using our leverage, economically, culturally, militarily, whatever - against and with other countries, together - to fix, repair, protect, defend, and cherish the environment: after all, we are all living on this planet together!

Have you ever seen, speaking of cartoons, that one called "Captain Planet"? I would love to see, instead of "Mr Burns" from the Simpsons - for Trump to pivot and clarify himself as a real champion of the environment like "Captain Planet" - i know it's kind of a cheesy cartoon, but I am making that distinction because, I know that Trump likes to be masculine - he has a certainlevel of machismo and that good and well - but what if he took on the issue of the environment, to be a champion of it - like none before him - and made it "cool" again - in only the way that he can? Shaping the hearts, minds of generations of people to that cause, and making great effects for it - while simultaneously successfully growing the economy and our energy sector through this lens? These things don't have to be enemies - industry/economy and the environment - as you set them up to be, it just takes a strong and moral leader to make a strong industry and economy also compatible with the environment and also doing things for the environment separately from the industry/economy - like making sanctuaries, doing cleanups and researching ways to clean the plastics and metals out of our oceans which are killing everythinig, planting trees, etc - it's not really that hard to see when you open up your mind that these are also economies and industries and jobs too - so it all really comes down to the moral conscious decision of what exactly is most important to him and why?

Caring about the environment is "concern trolling" now?

As if "the environment" isn't a legitimate, important political issue to most people?

Please, the only reason you want to label "the environment" as "concern trolling" is because Trump's position on "the environment" is terrible and you don't like seeing your candidate exposed in this way - if you can't handle legitimate criticism and concerns and questions - then perhaps your candidate isn't on solid defensible ground in this area - and you should think about why that is and what it means - at least understand that you don't have to support every position that your preferred candidate has - that you can still vote for him if other issues that he has are more important to you but at the same time still be able to not support or be against other positions that your preferred candidate has? Is this so hard to understand? Like, for example, you can support his position on immigration, but be opposed to his position on the environment - do you understand this? You do realize we are not living in north korea, correct?

Since you "bit" as you said ( which is crap, as I am not fishing or trawling as you say ) I don't think anything you said is anything but putting lipstick on a pig, talking about "economic development and "energy independence" and "EPA nonsense" and "family wealth and small business losses due to environmental regulations" - I mean really, guy, are you even listening to yourself? But hey, if that is what you think - that's fine you can have your opinion but nothing of that is convinving to me whatsoever to change my position on being pro-environment, and trust me I have an open mind and it can be changed with logic, reason, and persuasive fact - but you really have not done that, you have just epitomized the demagoguery of a spokesman soft-peddling of corporatism over environmentalism, and I don't buy that jazz, it's not true and it's not convincing - and to do what you say would be to vote against myself, my own interests, and that of future generations of America - if your small business you want to start has a problem with being a nasty polluter so much that it's not even realistic - the solution is to re-think your business model, not to hamstring the EPA, no-one wants nasty polluters anymore, this is not the industrial revolution era, think of a sims-game, we have evolved and progressed beyond that area - and now is the time to clean-up what we have done in that era and design systems that cherish, protect and defend the environment in which we live - why is this not something that Trump articulates caring about whatsoever - why is he ignoring this?

see, that's all you can do - is distract and divert to another issue.

please don't insult my intelligence in that way.

we can agree that political corruption is bad, syria is bad, uncheked illegal immigration is bad. OK - fine!

now - moving on, what about his position on the environment? are you suggesting that he can't have a position on the environment because of syria? get real, please - you can have positions on issues at the same time as having positions on other issues - these things do not negate each other.

I understand it is very hard for you to discuss this, because he does in fact have zero policy on the environment, and what policy he does have - is bad for the environment - so of course you want to change the subject back to things that are not the environment - or talk about non-sequitors like how illegal immigration, say from mexico, is damaging the environment, which is true, but it's like cmon - that isn't the scope or entirety of what this subject of the environment encompasses, and it isn't being addressed seriously by Trump whatsoever and I find that really repugnant, in fact - his disrespect for our Land, our Water - why does he value whatever material benefit to be gained from fracking over the environmental disaster of fracking? This is part of the question I am going for - where is his head really at, and if he feels this way, how can I really trust that he is a morally correct person and fit to be leader - if he isn't doing the right thing here? It has a definite Mr. Burns from the Simpsons vibe, and I don't like it at all.

What about over-extraction of water by companies like Nestle? Or environmentally harmful metallic particles added to jet-airplane-fuel that increases fuel economy? What about deforestation? Loss of natural habitat? There are so many things - why has he not championed any of these things - and I mean genuinely - and not just to win over the Stein and Bernie voters, which it would - but why is he so monolithic in his message and ignoring the issue of the environment to give the message that he does not care? Who wants a job at a factory in an acid-rain disgusting dirty filthy city type scenario? - no thank you! Why not continue all the green initiatives started by Obama - even if they were a big money pit and a bit corrupt with how the money went out - but why doesn't he pledge to continue and fix those things, instead of regressing us back into the stone age of environmentalism?

Making America Great Again - should also be about making the earth, land, air and water great again - everything is not about maximizing money, he needs to consider his obligation to stewardship to the land of the people - especially since he calls himself Christian - you cannot serve two Masters - Money and God - but you can serve God through serving the Land!

What is his position on Monsanto chemicals? Illegal whaling? ... there are things people care about!

Helloooo, the "state" is We the People - of the people, by the people, and for the people - or have forgot that in indoctrination camp? Being a supporter for a politician is one thing - but being a north-korea level apologist is another thing, anyone who is against Snowden has impugned their own integrity and shown their loyalty to be not first to the people.

Just accept the fact that Trump is totally and completely wrong here; Nobody is perfect, and your "god-emperor" who you think can do no wrong - is in fact wrong on this one. Get over it. Snowden is a Patriotic Whistleblower who exposed the real traitor - the state!

well your leader in canada is a complete moron - he got elected like a prom king based on looks - he is just a male bimbo, empty-headed - except for those ideas stuffed into his head about social-justice in the current-year, and he is doing to your country what merkel did to germany and what is happening in sweden too - recklessly failing his most important duty to protect the people of the land, in the mass-importation of raping, violent muslims who feed off the public trough - all so that he can virtue-signal ... he is like an example of what happens when insane college-campus political-correctness goes mainstream into government leadership - and it is not healthy or wise or good for the people of that country! - but they have become stupid, weak, brainwashed and blind to see the truth - so perhaps it is their own fault in a way too, like how cows line up patiently for the slaughter. Worst part is, all these terrorists, muslims who are incompatible with western civilization, will be building mosques, radicalizing in your jails and prisons, beating your mean in groups, raping your white women and all of this will now spill from canada's southern border into traditionally more-protected northern states of the USA - so to that I say a big fuck you to your cuckold leader i hope he gets hit in the head with a hockey puck or donkey-punched by a moose and falls into a vat of maple syrup or perhaps in an ultimate meeting of karma justice he will be blown up or shot by these muslims he is bringing in - as he thinks him and his family are protected from them yet throws the regular-folk to the wolves - what a coward and traitor ... have fun when your country looks like Paris and London - burqah-bag wearing women and mosques everywhere, then you will wish you, your countrymen and your leaders had more honest courage to have prevented it in the first place rather than placing more value on earning good-goy points

Deus Vult! Sweden was once a safe country filled with beautiful white people, and now it is the rape capital of the world due to the barbarians they sadomasochistically lowered their gates to.

anyone who is OK with importing mooselimbs has a serious mental disease, crime and cost alone - is a sound reason to "just say no" - not even to mention that their entire culture and mentality is totally incompatible with ours; if they want to convert to Christianity and adopt the Western Ethos and then come in legally, that is fine - as long as they aren't being sneaky taquiya about it!

Hillary Clinton is either:

A) Brain Damaged

or

B) Grossly Incompetent

C) A Criminal

D) A Brain-Damaged Grossly Incompetent Criminal

You Pick!

hey you stole that, give it back!

Are you not hurting your self with looking at pornography?

FBI think they can see the H-Ree

Huma brotherhood like Allah-Ahkbar me

CTR turned all the way up to maximum

Foundation corrupt but they casket 'em

Delete delete like her server though

Got even Comey sayin 'oh no!

Her pantsuit hidin colostomy bag!

Straight hidin' body bags, this wrinkled hag!

Turn an investigator into a coma!

You don't wanna even said from Obama!

Straight pumpin' distress and fear while hollerin' queer!

Into the hearts of America from this mafiosa media dear!

Only to a security cell must this demon dwell!

To spend her days, with karma, that bitch from Hell!

cars

and

planes

colours

and

things

trees

and

insects

dogs

and

cats

animals

and

people

helicopters

and

saints

the fork - upturned

the fence - underwater

the boat - in port

kanye is a tool of satanic disillusion, co-opting that which you might find as significant in your journey here - to quench the search, there is a reason for things.

I can tell you are a real man in search of something. A secret, even.

Let me share with you a secret.

It might seem like it is nothing, but I have seen that bird transform into that flying creature - I have seen that flying bird-fish thing fly right over me - much closer - and I had no fear - in fact I jumped up to it arms up, grasping.

In fact I have transformed into a fish thing ... this is a well known god, dagon, what then?

You would be proud of me - when confronted with the reality of the divine, I have always had no fear - even at the silver mines of Hell itself with the silver archers.

You want another piece of the secret puzzle? this video, the rooster crows - the numerology of it, look at how in the beginning the numbers, 7 has 35 35 M M and the 4 has C C F F ... strikers 9 ... 9! ... Gematria is helpful and knowledge of Freemasonry, and a spiritual connection with God, to receive, like the Zohar, everyone always wants to know what MM is ... life is like a dungeons and dragons adventure, and you are a player character, the DM is hidden ... like found in the georgia guidestone cube ... well ... well ... well ... what say you, then? What secrets have you?

is this how you have been brainwashed, then?

what do you think - walking into the church of wilderness?

have you ever done this?

meditating - in a kundalini yoga fashion - what then?

I know that I am absolutely capable of mistakes - like the double-post above, but when I see that mistake I know of 1996, a number and year that means to me that which it may not to you, such is the subjective human experience, and my double-hearts, some might even call it the lizard-folks - native americans call them double-hearts - this conundrum of morality we are talking about here - some might call it yin and yang - yet what is truly ignorance and what is truly wisdom - based on an echo of truth known in the past - or even known through a mystery of epigenetics - one thing is to always reserve the right to edit, and know that the second coming of God as man will be someone who is not accepted socially, with anything - maybe it's me, maybe then it's you - who can say? This admission does relieve much pressure - as one could cynically define perfection as a boring man drinking boring yellow tea in a boring church of boring plain pews ... how can that be truth? There must be contrast for truth to exist - truth through untruth - must be a fabric of understanding of reality or else nothing then would exist. In that sense, yes pornography is wrong - yet it still exists as a mistake is also not a mistake - only a tangible realized clarification choice of truth - Truth above all; heart over mind with mind over heart.

Have I then brainwashed my self - if so, how - and how have you not been similarly brainwashed, then?

Have you considered, that all the scholars, all the historians, having even deduced various supposed authors of the Bible - have together excluded and narrowed down exactly one thing - that they know as indisputable fact that Jesus said?

This thing is "Our Father"

Whether you want to view this as a support for the Norse All Father, or whatever, or an echo of all benevolent enlightened human enlightened transcendent priesthood to the divine - it is and was written and recorded, whether an addition or not of others, as part of the prayer, of all prayers - that Jesus said that we should pray.

And of that prayer - the thesis, the impetus is: to forgive others as we are forgiven.

Therefore, if ever, you did consider to my view - think on this prayer of prayers - even in regards to what you say: to forgive God of what he has done to you, is to forgive anything that you have and could have done.

Some call this karma - it has many facets in most all religions and spiritualities - and should not objectively be overlooked, in the human or spiritual condition.

I would ask you then, to consider, Have you considered, that all the scholars, all the historians, having even deduced various supposed authors of the Bible - have together excluded and narrowed down exactly one thing - that they know as indisputable fact that Jesus said?

This thing is "Our Father"

Whether you want to view this as a support for the Norse All Father, or whatever, or an echo of all benevolent enlightened human enlightened transcendent priesthood to the divine - it is and was written and recorded, whether an addition or not of others, as part of the prayer, of all prayers - that Jesus said that we should pray.

And of that prayer - the thesis, the impetus is: to forgive others as we are forgiven.

Therefore, if ever, you did consider to my view - think on this prayer of prayers - even in regards to what you say: to forgive God of what he has done to you, is to forgive anything that you have and could have done.

Some call this karma - it has many facets in most all religions and spiritualities - and should not objectively be overlooked, in the human or spiritual condition.

I would ask you then, to consider, to forgive God for this trespass of creation of your self, in all these things you say and feel it is - contritely - sincerely - so that you may then be forgiven for the self of you in creation.to forgive God for this trespass of creation of your self, in all these things you say and feel it is - contritely - sincerely - so that you may then be forgiven for the self of you in creation.