上位 200 件のコメント全て表示する 389

[–]TheLightningbolt 50ポイント51ポイント  (47子コメント)

If Israel suggested that all Arabs should be removed from Israel, the world would call it ethnic cleansing. On the other hand, when the Palestinians demand that all Jews be removed from the West Bank, the world doesn't consider it ethnic cleansing. I think the world has a huge problem with hatred of Jews. Jews are held to a different standard than everybody else. The PA and its supporters accuse Israel of ethnic cleansing regularly, and their comments were never called "inappropriate or unhelpful". The PA and its media are constantly spewing hatred against Jews and brainwashing kids to hate Jews, and the world doesn't call them out on it. It seems that the world thinks it's ok for Arabs to be bigots and tyrants. This is known as the bigotry of low expectations. Arabs are expected to behave like barbarians, so nobody cares when they do barbaric things. On the other hand, every little thing any Jew or Israeli does wrong becomes world news with worldwide outrage.

[–]Mars_Darinder 22ポイント23ポイント  (7子コメント)

Not to mention Israel is a relatively gay friendly and woman friendly oasis in a giant desert of public executions for being raped or doing butt stuff. I say go Jews.

[–]Ravenman2423 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

Not only are we gay and women friendly, we've also got a huge tech industry that has branched out all over the world. Chances are you use some sort of Israeli tech daily. We've done tons of good in science and other academic industries.

Obviously I'm pretty biased, but I 1000% believe that, with ALL the shit that Israel does (and believe me I know, it's a fuck ton of shit), we also do a lot of good and the world is a better place with us on it.

[–]Snoopy_Hates_Germans [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The problem isn't with Jews as a cultural/ethnic group, it's a problem with the government of Israel promoting warmongering and perpetuating war crimes against Palestinians. To suggest that Israel should be condemned for its actions and that Israeli citizens should be removed from their unlawful occupation of Palestinian lands is not equivalent with suggesting that Israelis should be removed because they're culturally or ethnically Jewish.

[–]flashoverride 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

Are Jews in the West Bank willing to be treated like everyone else and be ruled by Palestine? Because any other place in the world they would be treated that way, assuming that any of the property was transferred legitimately, anyway.

[–]StevefromRetail 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

The question isn't whether they're willing to be governed by a Palestinian state, it's whether it would result in ethnic conflict ala Bosnia. The history of the Jews in the middle east prior to Israel has not been especially happy, despite the revisionist history of Jews and Muslims holding hands dancing around a maypole.

[–]AndreasWerckmeister 11ポイント12ポイント  (26子コメント)

On the other hand, when the Palestinians demand that all Jews be removed from the West Bank, the world doesn't consider it ethnic cleansing.

Could have something to do with Jews settling there in full knowledge that the settlements are illegal.

[–]nidarus 14ポイント15ポイント  (8子コメント)

The only reason why every single Jew living in the West Bank is called an "illegal settler", is because they were ethnically cleansed from there in 1948, in a completely illegal war of aggression, and subsequent annexation, by the Jordanians.

That's also, incidentally, why there's an "East Jerusalem" and "West Jerusalem", and why every Jew living in the East is an "illegal settler", even though that's where the millennia-old Jewish quarter is.

Now, don't get me wrong, I think the settlements probably the biggest historical mistake Israel ever made. And ethnic cleansing or not, many of them will need to go in the final peace plan. But saying that this is purely moral and fair, since it's just removing invading "illegals", is not true.

[–]838h920 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (3子コメント)

They're called "illegal settler" because they're Israelis and not Palestinians.

Also the settlements were newly build, and not their old homes, in Israel many Arabs lost their homes and some can even proof that it's their home, but are not allowed to return to it.

[–]StevefromRetail 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

One of the largest settlement blocs, Gush Etzion, was formerly called Kfar Etzion and originally established in the early 20th century before being destroyed by Jordan. That bloc is about 20% of all settlers.

Kiryat Arba is the same bit but smaller and has religious significance because of the Cave of the Patriarchs.

[–]nidarus 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

And the reason they're Israelis and not Palestinians, is because all of the Jews were kicked of Palestine, and given Israeli citizenship.

As for the settlements: not all of them are newly built, and those aren't (in Hebron and East Jerusalem), raise the most contentions, because they mean "Jewish settlers are kicking Arabs out of their homes". That's why building new ones is generally considered a better solution.

And your comparison to the Palestinian "right of return" is very apt. Fair or unfair, neither of those are tenable for any kind of sane two-state solution. But I still wouldn't call any Palestinian refugee moving into Israel "illegal settlers", or "invader colonialists" and whatnot.

[–]AndreasWerckmeister -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

If Israel recognized the Palestinian right of return, that would make perfect sense. You can have neither or both.

[–]nidarus -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

As I said in another comment, that's a great comparison. Neither are tenable in any kind of two-state solution, and great compromises should be made in both of those ways.

But it wouldn't be particularily fair to call the Palestinians whose ancestor lived in Israel "colonialist invaders", who want to dispossess the "natives" who now live on those Palestinians' family land. So it's not fair to do the same for any Israeli Jew who wants to move into the West Bank.

[–]AndreasWerckmeister [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

So it's not fair to do the same for any Israeli Jew who wants to move into the West Bank.

But this is done in a way that violates West Bank's sovereignty. If they immigrated after getting West Bank's permission, no one would be objecting to it.

[–]NoveltyName [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

No one? They'd be seen as invading migrants like people think what is happening in Europe. The difference is the West Bank is Judea, but that fact will be glossed over.

[–]bored_me 6ポイント7ポイント  (6子コメント)

What's your excuse for every other Middle Eastern country being almost completely devoid of Jews in spite of there being thousands in those countries decades ago?

[–]AndreasWerckmeister 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Zionism?

[–]bored_me -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

Which doesn't explain why other countries have maintained and grew their Jewish population.

[–]AndreasWerckmeister 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Why do some countries have a negative migration rate, and others have a positive one?

[–]bored_me -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

Because the countries are hellholes that treat their citizens poorly and they're escaping to better opportunity.

But sure, claim that there's no anti-semitism in the middle east if you want, it's just ignorant.

[–]AndreasWerckmeister 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I suspect there is. Are you suggesting Jews should get free land for consolation?

[–]bored_me 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, I'm suggesting the lack of you caring about that fact shows that you just hate Jews, not that you actually care about anything else. When I hear any amount of condemnation in proportion to the condemnation people push towards Israel, I'll give a fuck about their opinions.

[–]mstrgrieves 3ポイント4ポイント  (9子コメント)

Jews lived on both sides of the green line prior to 1948, when they were all forced to the west of it. Why is it so wrong that they return?

And under international law, an individual cannot "transfer" themselves. Why a case can be made that the israeli government acted illegally (i disagree), individual israelis who live in the settlements have done nothing wrong, legally.

[–]AndreasWerckmeister 4ポイント5ポイント  (8子コメント)

If Israel recognized the Palestinian right of return, your argument would make sense.

[–]mstrgrieves 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

Under most peace deals accepted by the israelis and rejected by the palestinians, a certain number of palestinians would get the "right to return" to israel. Would you consider this to be illegal, and immoral?

[–]AndreasWerckmeister 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

I wouldn't have objections if there was a bilateral movement of people. Israelis don't need a peace treaty to allow Palestinians to return.

[–]mstrgrieves 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

Jews can't live in the area's administered by the palestinian authority. The situations are pretty similar.

[–]AndreasWerckmeister 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Apart from the movement not being bilateral, yes they are pretty similar.

[–]mstrgrieves 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

How is it not? There are no jews in the areas administered by the palestinian authority, and jews cannot live there. There are arabs in the areas administered by israel, but there is no unrestricted right of entry to alien palestinians.

[–]AndreasWerckmeister 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Are we talking about Arabs, or Palestinians? If we are talking about Palestinians, are you suggesting that there aren't a lot of them that where kicked out, and are not allowed to return?

[–]Level3Kobold 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Would Israel like to be treated like the rest of the Middle East? Because Israel does actually have oil.

[–]RufusTheFirefly 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm sure Israelis would prefer that everyone be held to the same standard if that's what you're asking.

[–]mstrgrieves 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

Hard to see how he is wrong in this case.

[–]Im__Bruce_Wayne__AMA 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

"Best" comment. 3 upvotes and no replies (until now).

[–]debris_happens [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

The thicker the hasbara shizzel, the less they're believed. Less is more, I guess.

[–]Im__Bruce_Wayne__AMA [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

They sure went to work on this thread. Tried to at least.

[–]GoFuckYourselfLady 68ポイント69ポイント  (147子コメント)

Why the hell does the US keep funding this nutjobs government?

[–]IDKmenombre 20ポイント21ポイント  (72子コメント)

Mostly for strategic reasons. Doesn't matter how crazy you/they are. " Will you help keep this guy from taking over this area?". That's global policy. Protecting Palestinians doesn't benefit US policy at the moment but things could change.

Erdogan is a another example.

[–]GoFuckYourselfLady 51ポイント52ポイント  (55子コメント)

Israel is so quick to point out that they are America's only real "friend" in the Middle East. What's ironic is that before Israel existed, America had no real enemies in the Middle East.

[–]Yvling 48ポイント49ポイント  (11子コメント)

The area was controlled by colonial powers after World War I. Prior to that, the Ottomans controlled the area. takes us to the foundation of America.

So while you are technically correct that America had no real quarrels with the Ottomans or the colonial powers, the Middle East really wasn't self-governing.

The US was seen as an anti-colonial power (as we were ourselves a colony) at least until the Suez Crisis in 1956. Once Britain had committed to resigning its superpower status, the US, for its actions and its associations with Britain and France, began to be viewed with distrust by the Middle East.

Up until this point, US relations with Israel were minimal, at least compared with later years.

It wasn't until the Soviet Union decided to become the champion of anti-imperialism that the break between the US and the Arab Middle East became inevitable.

[–]UBourgeois 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

The US was seen as an anti-colonial power (as we were ourselves a colony) at least until the Suez Crisis in 1956.

Uh, the Philippines might disagree.

[–]TOWIEtillIdie 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

And pretty much every Caribbean and Central American country.

[–]Yvling [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It was the perception, not the reality. Look at the US in China (Open Door Policy) or the US and the formation League of Nations. The US wanted (for many reasons) to end European colonialism.

Wilson's 14 points wanted to break up the Ottoman empire and give the right of self-determination to Ottoman subjects.

[–]Shahata_Joe 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

So while you are technically correct that America had no real quarrels with the Ottomans or the colonial powers, the Middle East really wasn't self-governing.

false. under most of Ottoman rule, the Ottomans preferred soft rule. In that they basically just took taxes and soldiers from conquered lands, but those lands/provinces/tribes could basically self rule however they pleased.

Overtime, the Ottomans became more heavy handed, and in the 1800s, after losing most of North Africa and European holdings to European Empires and rebellions (due to the fact that the Ottomans were becoming heavy handed and everyone started hating them), they basically tried to impose an Ottoman identity onto everyone, and centralize all government. So basically they tried to shift from soft rule to hard rule, while also insisting that all people within their borders are Ottoman. Not Arab, not Kurd, not Greek, not Muslim, not Christian, not Jewish, but Ottoman.

This made everyone mad and rebel even more, so the Ottomans started massacring/starving everyone.

The US began to install puppet dictators and continue the colonialism the British and French were imposing but no longer could due to the effects of WWII.

[–]Yvling [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

While it is true that the Ottomans preferred soft rule, most of that predates the United States. So I was only looking at US-Ottoman relations from 1776-1919.

The US was mostly dealing with the heavy handed Ottomans.

As for installing puppet dictators and whatnot, I can't think of a pre-WWII example of the US meddling in the Middle East. Can you provide one?

[–]nidarus 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

Before Israel existed, none of the independent countries we know today in the Middle East existed either. You're essentially saying that the US had great relations with the British, French and Turks who ruled that area. Which is not particularily interesting.

[–]trekman3 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's not accurate. Israel was founded in 1948. Egypt gained independence in 1922. Iraq in 1932. Saudi Arabia was created in 1932. Persia had been independent all along.

[–]nidarus 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, if we want to be pedantic, we can also mention how Jordan, Syria and Lebanon got their independence two years before Israel as well. But that doesn't really make GoFuckYourselfLady's argument stronger.

As for Persia, you're right, and you might as well mention modern Turkey. But remember that it remained both Israel's and America's ally until 1979, decades after Israel was created. And that its enmity against the US is rooted in reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with Israel.

[–]Okxyd 12ポイント13ポイント  (10子コメント)

[–]Manceptional 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

We fought a pretty big war against Germany and Japan, pretty sure we consider them close "friends"

[–]Caleb666 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah, because America never spies on its "friends".

[–]tuna_HP 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Uh... I just read each of the articles you linked:

  • Apollo Affair: US Government accuses Jewish American businessman of smuggling uranium to Israel, but the same uranium company is found to lose similar amounts of uranium in the years after that businessman stopped working at the company in what later studies find to be environmental losses. Meaning that the original allegations were baseless and probably prejudiced.

  • USS Liberty Incident: Israel attacks a US ship in what some crew members believe (from the perspective of being on a ship being bombed) must have been deliberate, but for which there is zero discernible motive and for which zero evidence has ever been produced.

  • Jonathan Pollard: Admits that he passed Israel classified information that they were supposed to have been getting under intelligence-sharing agreements anyway, but US officials accuse him of something much much more, something so sinister that they can't even discuss it publicly, for which no evidence has ever been produced. Off the record sources claim that Pollard was passing to Israel information about undercover US agents, which was then passed to the USSR and lead to the deaths of agents, but Pollard didn't have the security level to access the identities of undercover agents, and in the decades after Pollard was convicted, the US found at least two more moles that would have had access to that sort of information as well as confirmed direct contact with the Russians. Pollard has served the longest sentence ever handed down for someone convicted of spying on behalf of an ally, sentences for which are sometimes only a few years.

Seems like a big pile of nothing to me, or even evidence of prejudice on behalf of the US government.

[–]Im__Bruce_Wayne__AMA -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

LOL nice try. The USS Liberty was attacked for more than 30 minutes after Israeli forces identified it as an American ship. They jammed communication frequencies known to be used by American military. They knew exactly what they were doing.

[–]screw_this_i_quit -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard

They campaigned to release a spy and won? That is depressing on so many levels.

[–]TitoAndronico 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, he was released after 30 years when he was eligible for parole. Spies, especially from friendly countries, rarely are sentenced for that long.

[–]WumboJumbo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Real friends, how many of us

[–]SeeShark 6ポイント7ポイント  (9子コメント)

America had no real enemies in the Middle East.

[citation needed]

[–]HighburyOnStrand 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

America had no real enemies in the Middle East.

You do realize the entire area was controlled by the Ottomans for most of American history AND that those same Ottomans were on the other side of WWI from us, yes?

[–]icbm_penis -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do you want to be friends with islamists and the muslim brotherhood? I'm not disagreeing, but I don't see how it's relevant. There are no good friend options in the mideast, but Israel is at least developed and is even more liberal than many EU countries.

[–]DDukedesu 0ポイント1ポイント  (8子コメント)

Oh buddy, correlation does not imply causation.

Edit: Because you're so misinformed...

[–]GoFuckYourselfLady 7ポイント8ポイント  (7子コメント)

Literally cut and pasted from your propaganda taking points. Nice.

[–]DDukedesu 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

I'm sorry? To what are you referencing?

You stated:

What's ironic is that before Israel existed, America had no real enemies in the Middle East.

I just linked a wiki page that showed that no, in fact, we had two wars with middle eastern countries more than a hundred years before Israel existed.

[–]GoFuckYourselfLady 13ポイント14ポイント  (5子コメント)

Lol, the Barbary Wars? Come on now, really?

You know to what propaganda I'm referencing....

[–]Nowhrmn -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

Oh, so I guess you don't want to be protected from North African pirates? Americans don't know how good they have it.

[–]GoFuckYourselfLady 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

North African pirates aren't a particularly high threat to my daily life on the other side of the world.

Also, Israel has nothing to do with that.

[–]DDukedesu -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

You stated some bullshit, I corrected you. You accused me of using propaganda talking points, and when I asked you to point them out specifically, you refuse. Come on now, really?

You made the implication that Israel is the source of America's problems in the Middle East. Maybe USA should not have supported the Mujahideen in the 80s, or invaded Iraq in the 90s and again in the 00s, or invaded Afghanistan, or invaded Libya. We have a long and storied history in the region, people in the Middle East didn't magically start disliking the USA because Jews/Israel.

[–]Raestloz 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've got Burn Heal right here

[–]Genessender [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The US has other friends in the Middle East: Egypt, Jordan, and the Gulf States come to mind. Although it's hard to call KSA a friend, really.

[–]bored_me 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Are you joking? Why do you think the US Navy exists?

[–]GoFuckYourselfLady 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Obviously to protect us from the British.

But the Brits, now there are some true friends. Took a while, but we got there.

[–]bored_me 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Read up on the Barbary wars.

[–]Okxyd 0ポイント1ポイント  (11子コメント)

Israël is still a special kind of crazy.

[–]TitoAndronico 7ポイント8ポイント  (8子コメント)

Why is it special? For any other country that policy is called, "MAD." And it has kept us from committing mass suicide in WWIII so far.

[–]icbm_penis -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

What's the problem with this? If your country is almost at the point of being destroyed, you wouldn't go out with a bang?

[–]DontUseSocialMedia 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Something should really be done about that.

[–]notenoughguns 18ポイント19ポイント  (48子コメント)

AIPAC.

[–]Jewdius_Maximus 13ポイント14ポイント  (11子コメント)

Yeah AIPAC really has a stranglehold on the US government with their $5 million annual donations. That completely dwarfs the hundreds of millions given in donations by the oil lobby, the banking lobby, etc. etc.

[–]DutchBeatsRambo 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

The NRA spends less than $2 million annually, and they do have a huge influence on the US Govt. It's not always how much you spend, its how you spend it.

[–]nidarus 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

I love how you almost reached the right conclusion, and then did a sharp left turn just before the end. You're absolutely right that the NRA is a perfect analogy the AIPAC. Both spend very little money, comparatively, but wield great power.

But it's not because they know "how" to spend their money. If you look at their donations, you will not find them investing it in some secret genius way, that gives them a x100 bang for their buck.

The actual, far simpler reason why both are so powerful, without spending that much money, is the American public supports their goals. Americans love guns, NRA or not NRA. And Americans overwhelmingly love Israel, AIPAC or not AIPAC. And that gives both lobbies great power.

Incidentally, that means that explaining the influence Israel has over American politics with "AIPAC" is as dumb as explaining the pervasive gun culture as "NRA".

[–]Jewdius_Maximus 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

Look at the gun culture in America. Hundreds of millions of guns are owned in America. The NRA represents these millions and millions of Americans (including businesses and manufacturers) as far as gun rights are concerned. That's a bit of a straw man only because the gun culture is so Americanized it really isn't comparable to anything else.

Plus what exactly do you mean "how they spend it". How is AIPAC spending money in a way that someone like JP Morgan isn't?

[–]DutchBeatsRambo 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

How would I know how any of them actually spend it?

Only pointing out $5 million is still a considerable amount of leverage on certain topics in DC. Also, the NRA only has ~5 million members, so no, they do not represent the hundred million or more American gun owners.

[–]ArchmageXin -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

It helps Israel is behind a Christian prophecy of the second coming. I used to follow Christianity until the pastor said Jews have every right to exterminate the Palestinians, Jordanians, Lebenoness etc to return the "Ancient Kingdom of Israel"

The pastor also thought Pentium II PC was a sign of the Armageddon...but whatever.

[–]Jewdius_Maximus 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

That sounds to me like a problem with evangelical Christianity, not Jews or Israel.

[–]overthehilltotheleft 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a major problem for the US when it amounts to unanimous support among one of the biggest voting blocks in the states.

The amount of people that believe Israel is intertwined with the end of the world, and Jesus returning, and vote like clockwork, is so large that both parties are essentially forced to support Israel.

Support for Israel is a coded way to bring religion into the elections. If you don't support Israel you are literally going against prophecy, and God, the way they interpret it. That is something you don't admit to your neighbor in many areas.

Israel playing to this interpretation is a problem, and dangerous, and irresponsible.

[–]nidarus 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's kinda like explaining why Americans love their guns with "NRA".

AIPAC gets it power because most Americans love Israel, not the other way around.

[–]RufusTheFirefly 8ポイント9ポイント  (34子コメント)

AIPAC only has influence because the American public overwhelmingly supports Israel.

[–]DontaskaboutDimona 12ポイント13ポイント  (22子コメント)

Lol, AIPAC has influence because it has money. That's how you have influence in America.

[–]RufusTheFirefly 16ポイント17ポイント  (21子コメント)

Go on opensecrets.org where lobbyist spending is recorded and look at how much AIPAC actually spends. Then come back and tell us how AIPAC compares with the major American lobbying groups (you won't find AIPAC anywhere near even the top twenty).

AIPAC has influence because the American public cares about Israel. Get over it.

[–]Jewdius_Maximus 16ポイント17ポイント  (15子コメント)

Just saying "lolAIPAC" is the modern socially acceptable way of saying "Jews control the US". These same people don't ever actually look at the numbers of what is being contributed. AIPAC doesn't even crack the top 10 in lobbying donations per year, but it fits the narrative that Jews control everything.

[–]ShockingBlue42 2ポイント3ポイント  (14子コメント)

What is this, only the top 10 lobbying organizations have real power? Stop crying wolf with the anti-semite charges when there is a real basis to the criticism.

[–]Jewdius_Maximus 4ポイント5ポイント  (13子コメント)

I find it hilarious that people think the paltry sum with which AIPAC lobbies the US government is anywhere near enough to be exerting some kind of influence or control over it. The federal government could lose AIPAC's donation with a rounding error in one day's total of spending. AIPAC yearly donations account for a fraction of 1 percent of the total amount of yearly donations received from lobbyists. So yeah if you're more concerned that AIPAC is exerting more control over the government than are people like GE, Exxon Mobil, or Goldman Sachs, yeah I think it has something to do with "Jews controlling us".

[–]ShockingBlue42 5ポイント6ポイント  (12子コメント)

Your assertion is that AIPAC has little to no control over anything? That is some black and white binary thinking.

[–]nidarus -2ポイント-1ポイント  (11子コメント)

I don't think you get the point: if AIPAC has any power, it's not because of shadowy mix of money and politics, that bribes politicians against the American public, in the same way as those other lobbies. It's because the American people overwhelmingly support Israel, and thus AIPAC.

[–]DontaskaboutDimona 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Lol. Let me show you how silly your premise is, and how obvious that money is influence in America.

The most vocal supporter of Israel, who introduces and passes the most pro-Israel bills happens to be the largest recipient of pro-Israeli money.

http://maplight.org/us-congress/interest/J5100

[–]BayAreaStudent650 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's almost - just almost - as if people who make political donations, make them to the politicians that support the causes that they care about.

Strange idea, really.

[–]1kn0wn0th1n9 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

AIPAC is strategic with how they allocate funds. All they need to do is spearhead a couple targeted candidates to send the message that "if you cross us, we bury you."

NRA does the same thing

[–]RufusTheFirefly 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

They are strategic with how they spend their money?? Dear god, that means they're ... they're ... like every other lobbying group!

[–]weedful_things 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

The fundamental Christian movement in the US is strong and the bible does have something in there that if you go against Israel, you are fuccked. Plus their God's chosen people so they should get to do what they want? Sometimes being an American makes me sad.

[–]RufusTheFirefly 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

For some people it's that, but the evangelical population isn't that large and is nowhere near a majority. For most people it's just about standing up for vulnerable democracies around the world. It's the same reason the US keeps tens of thousands of troops in South Korea and backs up Taiwan.

[–]torvoraptor [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yup, it has NOTHING to do with US geopolitical interests. The US was backing up SK long before it became a democracy.

[–]worldnewsstar [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That's because of the influence hollywood has over america.

[–]cgbeige [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

And the Koch Brothers only have influence because American's love Koch...

[–]torvoraptor [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Public support for israel has been declining rapidly.

[–]newcomer_ts 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh damn.

You are beyond repair.

[–]AG3287 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

AIPAC only has influence because the American public overwhelmingly supports Israel.

Actually, American opinion is nowhere near homogenous here. According to Pew, about 54% say they sympathize more with Israel than with the Palestinians (the remainder are neutral or support Palestinians over Israel), which is hardly "overwhelming support." And if you break it down by age, younger people are less likely to support Israel than ever, suggesting that support for Israel has and will continue to decrease with time for the foreseeable future.

[–]StevefromRetail 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

How is this evidence of him being a nutjob? How is removing every Jew from the west bank, which was created based on an armistice agreement, not ethnic cleansing? If Israel removed every Arab from Israel, what would you call it?

[–]yeahnonny -1ポイント0ポイント  (8子コメント)

it doesn't.

It sells american equipment that it itself doesn't want.

It's not physical cash - unlike the Obama $400 million "ransom" to Iran...

[–]Persian_Lion 3ポイント4ポイント  (7子コメント)

Ransom? Please give details, pal. Because it seems as if you have your facts misconstrued. The reality is that those funds were Iranian to begin with, specifically for the purpose of purchasing military equipment and was never returned after the Shah was deposed. It was never American funds to begin with. Hell, there are still a lot of Iranian assets, valuing in the billions, that still have yet to return to Iran's hands.

The more you know...

[–]worldnewsstar [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The israeli lobby in the US is stronger than the palestinian lobby.

[–]dan603311 44ポイント45ポイント  (34子コメント)

He's not wrong. Removing Israeli presence from the West Bank is going to lead to the eradication of Jewish communities there. Just look at Gaza. A Jewish person wouldn't be able to survive there for a single night. And pro-Palestinians have the audacity to claim that Israel is the one practicing Apartheid when it is clearly the other way around.

[–]ImagineAllTheKarma 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Jews probably wouldn't fair too well in PA controlled areas now

[–]holysausage 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

Meanwhile, direct and outright legal segregation in the WB doesn't qualify as Apartheid. Building Israeli only roads on Palestinian territory doesn't qualify. Getting put in front of separate courts depending on your ethnicity isn't Apartheid. Tribal Jews from Ethiopia can travel to the WB and claim a property as his inherent right, whereas Palestinians who lived on that same property for 800 years can't even return to the spot for a visit. Your attempt to flip reality is pathetic and discusting.

Also, I don't see you bitch about the eradication of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Palestinian communities on their own soil. This is not wild speculation like your assertion is, either. This has been an ongoing process for 70 years. Illegal land seizures and expultion happen every other day. Yet we're supposed to concern ourselves with the hypothetical persecution of a handful jews, and not the real persecution of 10 times as many Palestinians over the span of three generations.

Your comment so clearly shows the intellectual dishonesty of pro-Israeli arguments.

You would never accept your own arguments in reverse.

[–]xhrit 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Can Druze drive on Israeli only roads? What about the Ahmadiyya?

[–]holysausage [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Do you know the expression token black person?

This is the equivilent of that. It's a token policy to avoid being called racist.

[–]Alerta_Antifa 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

It's not apartheid to remove a crazed murderer from my home who says he has a divine right to kill my family because he thinks my land is his. Its apartheid for someone to come to my land, tell me he is superior and chosen and therefore has all the rights to my land and I have none.

[–]bored_me 16ポイント17ポイント  (3子コメント)

The irony in the fact that this perfectly describes Palestine is probably lost on you.

[–]Luxuspunch [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Hah, well maybe they shouldn't settle there then. Since, you know, it's forcefully annexed palestinian land.

If someone would invade my country and steal my land, I could kill them. Morally wrong? Yes. Would I still do it? Probably.

Also, about the apardheit. How exactly is palestine practicing that if israelis can't even set foot on their land? Is stealing land, forcing palestinians to pass through roadblocks, forcing palestinians to get permission to be able to move from one city to another, not apardheit?

[–]Mechashevet [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Hah, well maybe they shouldn't settle there then. Since, you know, it's forcefully annexed palestinian land.

It's not annexing land, that's the problem. The international community would be okay if Israel annexed the West Bank, but it isn't.

If someone would invade my country and steal my land, I could kill them. Morally wrong? Yes. Would I still do it? Probably.

If that's the only reason Palestinians attack Jews, then why were there no attacks on Jordanians or Egyptians during the Jordanian occupation of the West Bank and the Egyptian occupation of Gaza from 1948 to 1967? The same land was occupied for almost 20 years and there was nothing, seems suspicious. Why only when the Jews are occupying are there attacks?

Is stealing land, forcing palestinians to pass through roadblocks, forcing palestinians to get permission to be able to move from one city to another, not apardheit?

No, because Apartheid is the act of treating one group of citizens as second class. The key word being citizens. Palestinians aren't Israeli citizens. Israeli Arabs, who are citizens, enjoy full and equal rights under Israeli law because they are citizens. Someone with a Green Card has less rights in the US than a US citizen, is this apartheid as well?

[–]Yvling 16ポイント17ポイント  (24子コメント)

Some are absolutely calling for ethnic cleansing. Helen Thomas, White House correspondent, called for Jews to return to Europe. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad called for Israel to be moved to Europe.

The settlements are illegal. But then again, there are many illegal migrants throughout the world. I don't support deporting all of them to their countries of origin; I don't support deporting all the Jews from the West Bank, legal or not.

Netanyahu has a point. Why should Jewish illegal immigrants be treated differently than any other?

[–]Mah_Negev 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

I find it funny that people say Jews need to “return” to Europe since most of the Israeli Jews are from Asia and North Africa.

[–]Nowhrmn -2ポイント-1ポイント  (12子コメント)

Any state that is trying to transfer its citizens into another country to take over land deserves the same treatment and criticism.

Read into what the settlements are, the settlers are more than illegal immigrants, they are supported by Israel and protected by the IDF even as they grab more land ('hilltops'). They are colonists.

Illegal immigrants, by contrast, actually want to live in the country they immigrate to, not take it over.

[–]mstrgrieves 5ポイント6ポイント  (11子コメント)

Jews lived to the east of the ceasefire line prior to being forced out in the 1948 war.

[–]notenoughguns -3ポイント-2ポイント  (5子コメント)

They shouldn't be deported, the land should be given to the Palestinians. They can stay and live in Palestine.

[–]jarh1000 14ポイント15ポイント  (4子コメント)

How long do u think their life expectancy would be if that happened

[–]theredcardinal 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's up to the settlers themselves.

[–]Alerta_Antifa -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

They can move somewhere else then

[–]jarh1000 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ah so you support forced displacement. What if a child was born in a settlers house? I thought rights were universal.

[–]TitoAndronico 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Or they can make like Battlestar Galactica and all which happened before will happen again. Palestinians massacre Jewish villagers. Civil War. Settlements declare independence. No peace treaty. 70 years of pointless bloodshed.

[–]autotldr 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 64%. (I'm a bot)


In the video, Netanyahu hinted that the U.S. and other countries that support the uprooting of Israeli West Bank settlements as part of a deal establishing a Palestinian state were supporting the ethnic cleansing of Jews.

"We obviously strongly disagree with the characterization that those who oppose settlement activity or view it as an obstacle to peace are somehow calling for ethnic cleansing of Jews from the West Bank," Trudeau said.

She added that it was an uncontroversial fact that since the beginning of last year the building and planning of thousands of housing units in the Israeli settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem was being promoted, that unauthorized Israeli outposts were being legitimized, that land in the West Bank was being expropriated for the use of Israelis only, and that the demolition of Palestinian homes was increasing.


Extended Summary | FAQ | Theory | Feedback | Top keywords: Netanyahu#1 settlement#2 West#3 state#4 Palestinian#5

[–]bang_it 8ポイント9ポイント  (68子コメント)

enthic cleansing because they dont recognize these illegal settlements? LOL

[–]nidarus 21ポイント22ポイント  (4子コメント)

No... it's because they demand that 'in a final resolution, we would not see the presence of a single Israeli — civilian or soldier — on our lands'.

Granted, it's kinda disingenuous, because if the Palestinians did allow the settlers to stay, no Israeli government would take that chance. They'd probably survive a week tops before being massacred by their neighbors, if not by the Palestinian government itself. But he's not technically wrong.

[–]Yvling 10ポイント11ポイント  (58子コメント)

It would be ethnic cleansing to remove only the Jewish citizens of Israel while leaving the Arab Muslim and Christian citizens of Israel. How exactly is that not ethnic cleansing?

[–]Kobrag90 10ポイント11ポイント  (48子コメント)

Like displacing native Arabs with colonial Jews?

[–]iranianshill 4ポイント5ポイント  (16子コメント)

You mean those "native" Arabs from Syria, Egypt etc? Also, the amount of "colonial" Jews that lived/arrived whose arrival did not displace anymore vs those that did is monumentally in favour of those that didn't. Your statement refers simply to a relatively modern and tiny percentile - - what about the rest? Are they fair game for ethnic cleansing? What about the native Jewish populations who were forced put too?

[–]moeloubani -1ポイント0ポイント  (14子コメント)

Nah, I think he/she is talking about the natives of the land, you know the Palestinians like me. I know you try to pretend we don't exist but here I am my little friend, telling you you're wrong and laughing at your pathetic attempts to justify ethnic cleansing.

A Palestinian from Palestine :)

[–]mstrgrieves 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

Funny how so many major palestinian clans/families can trace their roots outside of what we now call palestine.

Al-Husayni's- originated in the arabian peninsula.

Nusaybah- arabian peninsula.

Tuqan - arabian peninsula/syria

Abu Ghosh- Lots of possible lineages, but all from outside the region.

al-zayadina- arabian peninsula, then syria

barghouti- arabian peninsula

dogmush-turkish

Doualhy- Possibly crusader based, definitely lebanese.

Jarrar- Jordanian (large movements of arabs from what is now jordan to what is now israel in the 15th century)

Jayyusi- arabian peninsula

khalidi - iraq/arabian peninsula

Nashashibi - Disputed, but probably kurdish or turkic

Qudwa- syria

Shawish - Arabian peninsula (they believe themselves to be descended from the prophet)

Al-zaghab -arabian peninsula

al-zeitawai - arabian peninsula

Plus all of the al-turki (turkish origin), al-masri (egyptian origins), al-najdi and al-hajizi (saudi origins) palestinians you see everywhere.

Hell, the most famous palestinian ever (arafat) was born in cairo to a part-egyptian family

The palestinians are about as native as the scots-irish are in the southeastern united states.

The palestinians exist, and nobody is denying that or trying to justify ethnic cleansing. But the jews are, indisputably, the indigenous population.

[–]moeloubani 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

According to historical records part, or perhaps the majority, of the Moslem Arabs in this country descended from local inhabitants, mainly Christians and Jews, who had converted after the Islamic conquest in the seventh century AD (Shaban 1971; Mc Graw Donner 1981). These local inhabitants, in turn, were descendants of the core population that had lived in the area for several centuries, some even since prehistorical times (Gil 1992). On the other hand, the ancestors of the great majority of present-day Jews lived outside this region for almost two millennia. Thus, our findings are in good agreement with historical evidence and suggest genetic continuity in both populations despite their long separation and the wide geographic dispersal of Jews.

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/Nebel-HG-00-IPArabs.pdf

A question for you my little friend: does it suck that you spent all your time writing that post above for me just to come here and copy and paste a little blurb that proves it all wrong?

[–]mstrgrieves 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

A huge number of white americans claim some level of native american ancestry. I guess that means white people are the indigenous population of america! And by your logic, cultural imperialism is a good thing that should be rewarded! Hooray!

Your little blurb proves absolutely nothing.

[–]moeloubani 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do a huge number of white Americans also go into their genetics and change them to make them have native American ancestry? No.

Stop trying to run from defeat. You are under my Palestinian boot now, little buddy, and I'm not going to let you squirm out.

Why don't you go ahead and link me to the genetic study that you're talking about - you know - use some hard scientific facts the same way I used hard scientific facts to crush your pathetic argument.

Come on now it should be easy for you to show up a Palestinian like me, shouldn't it? Don't be that guy who had his ass handed to him by someone he doesn't even think exists!!

That would just be embarrassing, wouldn't it?

Eager to see what you come up with in the face of my hard scientific evidence, my little buddy!

My guess is that it will be some more rhetoric and slogans - something I've come to expect from the pathetic losers in the pro-Israel crowd. You aren't like those idiots, are you? I hope not, and I hope you'll show me that by linking me to a scientific study that says the Palestinians are not the natives of the land - otherwise I will have no choice but to lump you in with the other losers who crumble as soon as they come up against a Palestinian like me.

Go on now chap, you can do it! Or am I just better than you?

Let's see that scientific study proving your point - or do what you Israelis usually do when face to face on equal ground with a Palestinian - run.

[–]dkshine3 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

You know that Bibi Netanyahu's real last name is Mileikowsky right? Lmao, "indigenous" my arse.

[–]mstrgrieves 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The current principle chief of the cherokee nation has the traditional cherokee name of Bill Baker. He defeated three time incumbent Chad Smith.

[–]jarh1000 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

Was there ever an independent country there before Israel..... Of course not.

[–]DontaskaboutDimona 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

This is such fucking stupid logic. Was there an independent country in North America before the colonists came? No. Did Native Americans have unique societies that varied from region to region. Yes. Do Native Americans exist? Not by your logic.

[–]jarh1000 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

So you're arguing America doesn't have a right to exist because it displaced natives? Fuck me that's stupid. This can be said of literally every nation or tribe in human history! What I'm saying is that the Palestinian identity is as modern as the Israeli identity as both groups came into existence in 48.

[–]mstrgrieves 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well yes, there were various tribes who had a conception of themselves as a separate people. The very idea of a palestinian nationality is an invention of the british, ginned up by the arabs for the explicit purpose of destroying israel.

[–]xhrit 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It is more like arguing that "new englander" is an ethnic group, and "New England" has a right to exist as it's own state.

[–]momzdad [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

You're a Stateless Arab; there's absolutely nothing "native" about you. You are an unwanted, unwelcome squatter in Israel. "FAKEstine" does not exist. Reported for advocating terrorism.

[–]moeloubani [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

According to historical records part, or perhaps the majority, of the Moslem Arabs in this country descended from local inhabitants, mainly Christians and Jews, who had converted after the Islamic conquest in the seventh century AD (Shaban 1971; Mc Graw Donner 1981). These local inhabitants, in turn, were descendants of the core population that had lived in the area for several centuries, some even since prehistorical times (Gil 1992). On the other hand, the ancestors of the great majority of present-day Jews lived outside this region for almost two millennia. Thus, our findings are in good agreement with historical evidence and suggest genetic continuity in both populations despite their long separation and the wide geographic dispersal of Jews.

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/Nebel-HG-00-IPArabs.pdf

Sorry that your racist views aren't based in reality, my slightly wacky friend.

[–]nidarus 5ポイント6ポイント  (10子コメント)

Well, first of all, as others have pointed out, the Jews are the oldest extant indigenous group of that region. They called that place home, literally thousands of years before the first Arab decided to invade it. So talking about the "colonial" Jews as opposed to the "native" Arabs is kinda ridiculous.

Now, some like to reconcile this, by making up definitions of "native", that put expiration dates on having a homeland. That after some time has passed, the actual natives become the "colonialists" (in the Jews' case, with no actual homeland of their own) and the invaders who took their lands, centuries if not millennia after the fact, become the "natives". That if, say, the Native Americans who were expelled during the Trail of Tears, try to return to their original lands, they'd be "colonialists", while the white settlers who lived there for the past two centuries, would be the "natives".

The problem with that definition is twofold:

  1. First of all, it's not very convincing, since it's never been used anywhere else but in this particular case. It's a weird mashup of colonialist and anti-colonialist language, that isn't really coherent.

  2. And second, and most importantly, it essentially means "might makes right". As long as one can conquer a land and hold it for a sufficient amount of time, he becomes the "native", and those he took it from, become the "colonialist".

    And that is obviously problematic if you're trying to promote the Palestinians' rights (which you clearly are), since it's the Israelis who have all of the "might" right now. According to that nonsensical philosophy, even if they never been anywhere near Palestine, there would be a simple way to become the true "natives", and the Palestinians, the "colonial invaders": they just need to kick all of the Palestinians out, and wait.

With all of that said, that clearly doesn't mean that the Arabs who lived there for the past millennium and a half, are "invaders" with no connection to the land, and should just fuck off. And fortunately, only the tiniest minority of extremist Jews ever claimed they should. If the Arabs actually accepted the 1947 partition plan, as the Jews did, there wouldn't be a single Arab that would be displaced or lose any of his land, there wouldn't be any Nakbah, or any Israeli-Palestinian conflict. But instead, they believed they'd get more by war, and lost - and here we are.

[–]alexksak 4ポイント5ポイント  (7子コメント)

You make the common mistake of thinking Mediterranean Arabs are ethnically Arabs and that they migrated out of Arabia with the spread of Islam.

Mediterranean Arabs, like the Palestinians, are mostly descendants of their respective indigenous populations. Some of the Palestinians are without a doubt descendants of Jews (you can tell by the etymology of their family and "tribe" names), although even at the height of the ancient kindgom of Israel, a section of the population was not Jewish.

The same genetic studies that trace Jewish lineage to the Levant also trace Palestinian lineage to the same spot. These two peoples are close cousins.

Naturally, in the case of both Palestinians and Jews, there was always some mixing with neighbors and migrants.

[–]nidarus 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

As I said in another comment, I don't think that. Arabs, just like Jews, are genetically a mix of Arab, European and Levantine (not just Palestinian or Jewish) DNA.

But as I said, peoples are not defined by genetic lineages, and the Palestinians are no exception. The Palestinians, just like the Jews, define themselves by their cultural identity. So any Arab who had ancestors in Palestine, even if they were 20th-century immigrants from Egypt or Jordan, would still be considered a pure Palestinian. Conversely, a Jew who can trace his lineage to centuries ago in Hebron, would not be considered Palestinian, by either the Palestinians nor Israelis.

Again, as I said, it doesn't mean that the individual Palestinians are "colonialist invaders", that should be kicked out, as the OP implied the Jews are. But it does mean that using anti-colonialist language against the oldest extant indigenous people of that region, is pretty ludicrous.

[–]RedditCensorshipBad -5ポイント-4ポイント  (19子コメント)

If you go back farther in history, the Jews are actually the true natives. That's why the "who was there first" game is retarded.

[–]Kanransam 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, it's obvious Jews were in Jerusalem before anyone because that's where they murdered Jesus.

[–]need_some_sleep 4ポイント5ポイント  (9子コメント)

I believe there were people living there before Judaism came into being. So no, Jews are not actually the true natives.

[–]nidarus 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

According to all archeological (as opposed to Biblical) evidence, the Jewish people arose out of the local Canaanite population. So even though there were other Canaanite peoples there before, it doesn't mean they're not the "true" natives.

It is, however true that the Hesbonites, Ekronites, Gilgashites, Jebusites and so on, have a stronger historical claim to the land than the Jews do. Unfortunately, those nations have been extinct for several millennia.

So yes, the Jews are absolutely the oldest extant indigenous culture of that land. Certainly compared to the Arab culture, that only came into prominence as a result of the Muslim conquests in the middle ages.

Does that mean that the Arabs should just fuck off? Of course not. And nobody, except the craziest of far-right Israelis ever claimed they should. But it certainly means that you can't go around talking about the "colonial" Jews and "native" Arabs.

[–]jarh1000 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

We're all Kenyans by that logic.

[–]Hoodafakizit 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Oh, fuck... don't start that again!

[–]jarh1000 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

What I'm trying to argue by saying that is that people give history too high a weighting when forming opinions. What really matters is the status quo. Arguing to and fro about the legality of Israels existence is an exercise is futility. Israel exists and will continue to exist whether people like it or not, regardless of opinion over whether they should be there to begin with. The Arab word must recognise this before a peace can even be dreamt of.

[–]midoman111 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well let's kick out everyone from the US because they aren't natives.

[–]nidarus 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Of course not. But if the Native Americans started moving into the lands they were kicked out of in the Trail of Tears, most people wouldn't have the gall to call them "colonial Indians" trying to displace "native white Americans".

And second, it's Kobrag90 who tried to make an argument about the "native" Arabs and the "colonial" Jews, not RedditCensorshipBad. The fact RedditCensorshipBad pointed out that the Jews are in fact the natives, is a very relevant thing to point out, in that context. Turning it around and saying, well, being native doesn't matter that much, is not.

[–]CheckmateAphids -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bullshit. The Palestinians are far more descended from the locals of ancient times than the Jews are.

[–]Derpex5 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If I remember the OT correctly, the Jews migrated there from Egypt, kicking out the original inhabitants with God's help.

[–]cattlee 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Anyone has a link to the video?

[–]BestFriendWatermelon 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...

[–]tuna_HP 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Obama is such a bully to Netanyahu. Not that Netanyahu can't deal with it, but there have been so many of these examples of Obama having his State Department frame as a great evil some innocuous thing that Netanyahu has said or done, seemingly just to try to tarnish his image in front of people who don't follow Israel closely.

I'm thinking for example back to the Israeli elections when Obama started accusing Netanyahu of using racist imagery when he condemned Netanyahu for, "describing the Palestinians for going to the polls in 'droves', as if they were a herd or flock of animals, such a terrible and racist thing to say". What the fuck was that about, people use the word "droves" all the time! Just last week I heard a news story on the radio about "Labor Day shoppers flocking to the mall in droves". "Droves" is used all the time and has no racial or negative connotations. To anyone who follows Israel, they know that Netanyahu was referring to the popularity of the new "Joint Arab List" party that was set to receive more votes than the Arab parties ever before, and who are Netanyahu's political rivals, and who frankly are constantly trying to destroy Israel, and yet Israel still allows them to sit in its parliament. But Obama seemed to want people to believe that Netanyahu was using racist tactics to intimidate Palestinians from going to the polls... which had no basis in reality.

And now we have this gem: Anti-Israel partisans are constantly accusing Israel of ethnic cleansing and even the genocide of the Palestinians. Does it matter to the anti-Israel partisans that in their supposed ethnic cleansing, hundreds of thousands of Arab Israelis live side-by-side with Jewish Israelis with equal status under the law? Does it matter to the anti-Israel partisans that in their supposed genocide, the Palestinians actually have one of the top five highest population growth rates in the world? No it doesn't, and apparently it doesn't matter to Obama either because he never calls out the anti-Israel partisans for these outrageous accusations.

Now when Netanyahu calls out an actual real ethnic cleansing, the forced expulsion of 100% of Jews from the West Bank, thousands of Jewish families that had lived there for hundreds of years, some having lived there since before Islam was even invented, Obama lies and says that its not an ethnic cleansing.

I presume that Obama also denies the ethnic cleansing of Jews across the Middle East overall; hundreds of thousands of Jews lived in Middle Eastern countries before they were ethnically cleansed following the creation of Israel, and for many of them Israel was the only country that would take them in. But this doesn't fit with Obama's preferred narrative of Israel and America's support of Israel being the primary causes of any bad thing that any Muslim does anywhere in the world.

[–]newcomer_ts 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is getting popcorn level drama queen bullshiting.

That this man is PM of "the only democracy in the ME" makes the the term obsolete.

[–]Live_Resin -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Let me guess, and anyone who wants the illegal settlements gone is a anti semite-_-????