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[–]HurricaneZone 451ポイント452ポイント  (140子コメント)

Didn't notice it until I read this; but the worms are almost exactly like our ghosts. Just, you know, dark.

[–]thePOWERSerg 724ポイント725ポイント  (107子コメント)

The Worms give the living a choice to be Darkness.

The Ghost forces the dead to be Light.

[–]whynonamesopen 108ポイント109ポイント  (17子コメント)

We're Ghosts second choice, the first guy said nah.

[–]E_Sex 110ポイント111ポイント  (15子コメント)

You mean Master Chief?

[–]whynonamesopen 71ポイント72ポイント  (5子コメント)

Yes, I don't blame him for picking Chief first.

[–]E_Sex 105ポイント106ポイント  (4子コメント)

To be fair, if chief had said yes then the darkness probably would have just backed off and there'd be no destiny.

[–]QueequegTheater 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

Instead the Ghosts turned Buck into a blue robot.

[–]throwawaythingiee 49ポイント50ポイント  (8子コメント)

For anyone who doesn't know, you can find this master chief easter egg by scanning the pods on the back wall in the the boss room in the caydes stash story mission. Pretty neat.

[–]Aftershoc 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

I always did wonder how a race of bodies like the hive or the flood could build ships and harvest the oil and fuel to run them, I'd like to picture a Thrall somewhere in a Tie running off to work for his boss.. a wizard and his kids going to school and the faithful kids end up being cursed thrall.... makes you wonder

[–]bjtittiesjr 183ポイント184ポイント  (8子コメント)

Dude. Whoa.

[–][削除されました]  (5子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]nicholasethan 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

    nope. i'm high and learned more about Destiny's lore from this thread than probably anything else so far.

    [–]Snow is comingElevasce 40ポイント41ポイント  (6子コメント)

    The Worms gives power by eating away at their hosts. They give, but also take from you. The Ghosts turn you into power itself, and only asks for your survival and help in return. They give, and you willingly give back.

    [–]TroubledViking 29ポイント30ポイント  (57子コメント)

    But I imagine a Guardian can separate from the Ghost if they wanted, could someone remove a worm as easily?

    [–][deleted] 103ポイント104ポイント  (54子コメント)

    Yeah, we still have free will for the most part. Dredgen Yor abandoned his ghost to go be a punk bitch.

    [–]dacotahd 19ポイント20ポイント  (32子コメント)

    Abandoning your ghost basically means losing your "eternal life" though doesn't it?

    I assumed eris is now mortal since she lost her ghost.

    [–]Morvick 11ポイント12ポイント  (21子コメント)

    Couldn't she get another Ghost? Presume that she died again. I imagine even Praedyth could have been revived if he had had access to a Ghost.

    [–]dacotahd 25ポイント26ポイント  (16子コメント)

    I guess this brings up the topic: Are guardian/Ghosts relationships exclusive? Or can ghosts/guardians be replaced?

    [–]IWHBYDDaBozz88 16ポイント17ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Guardians can be replaced, proof is in one of the last word cards.

    [–]Tigerbones 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Yep, Jaren Ward's ghost goes to Shin Malphur. But it looks like one ghost can only sustain one Guardian at a time.

    [–]Morvick 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Maybe there's some imprinting by quantum entanglement that goes on.

    shrug

    [–]Satans_BFF 12ポイント13ポイント  (18子コメント)

    Doesn't Cayde-6 not have a ghost?

    [–][deleted] 65ポイント66ポイント  (8子コメント)

    He does. It's looking at the map in front of him, all inquisitive and adorable looking.

    [–]Satans_BFF 22ポイント23ポイント  (7子コメント)

    Ooook good! I couldn't see his. And I looked for his after he said randomly "ya know I kinda miss that little guy sometimes". Thought he meant his ghost.

    [–]Tigerbones 24ポイント25ポイント  (6子コメント)

    Eris is the only one we know that lost hers

    [–]BlessUpAustin 28ポイント29ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Cool observation. Yin and yang.

    [–]Point4ska 33ポイント34ポイント  (17子コメント)

    Except our Ghosts won't eat us from the inside out if we stop killing.

    [–]Amarae 538ポイント539ポイント  (201子コメント)

    Wow, damn this clears some things up for me. People have been talking with such knowledge of everything going on and I havent yet been able to figure where from they get this understanding.

    Edit: thanks for all the info.

    [–]Mercules904 188ポイント189ポイント  (66子コメント)

    Just read the Books of Sorrow. This actually has a few mistakes in it and leaves out a huge portion of the coolest stuff about Oryx.

    [–]Meleagros 80ポイント81ポイント  (35子コメント)

    Yeah he learned to take to fight Eucemine not the Vex... as well as some other mistakes. 80% is accurate

    [–]amjimmbo 71ポイント72ポイント  (10子コメント)

    Installation 01 is activated.

    [–]GNIHTYUGNOSREP 38ポイント39ポイント  (9子コメント)

    So is 343 Guilty Spark just a glorified Ghost and he's the monitor of Installation 04??

    [–]Backstab005 21ポイント22ポイント  (8子コメント)

    I think that Spark was actually an ancient human, who befriended one of the Forerunners. He was then put through the Composer in order to become a Monitor, and then put in charge of Installation 04, and 04B, before both of their destructions.

    IIRC, he thinks that the Master Chief is his Forerunner buddy.

    [–]AsciiFace 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Honestly, I found most of the backstory so intriguing I was mad when it was over. I want a full novel series. It was all kind of perfectly written loose scifi.

    Particularly, the way Oryx and his siblings expressed love and effection.

    [–]Meleagros 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

    It was a really great read, but I do kind of want a break and face the Cabal next or the Fallen done right. I don't want to face Oryx's sisters within the next year

    [–]AsciiFace 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I like how they conveniently "went away" so we wouldn't know just how powerful they got. Oryx even questioned this, wondering if they had far surpassed his own strength.

    [–]Amarae 20ポイント21ポイント  (12子コメント)

    Where do I find this book? Do I get it from a vendor?

    [–]oblisker 40ポイント41ポイント  (1子コメント)

    It's the grimoire from the fragments! I used Ishtar-collective.com (maybe .net I'm not sure) to read all of them. 52 cards, and I don't even read grimoire. They're great.

    [–]Devium44 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

    each Calcified Fragment you collect unlocks a section in the Grimoire. Or you can just google it and get the whole complete thing.

    [–]Mukarsis 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    God that would be fucking awesome. Hear that Bungie?

    [–]KingtygahShakulo 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

    No you can't read it ingame but here's a link to all of the book of sorrows

    [–]Darthinvader9 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    calcified fragments in the grimoire, but there are sites with all 50 in order, such as this one

    [–]RandyK44 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yeah, this was fun to read, but only because Ive gotten the fully badass intended experience from the books. They are so amazing

    [–]BearBryant 59ポイント60ポイント  (85子コメント)

    The one thing this doesn't clear up is what "the darkness" is which has been the sticking point for me with destiny's lore. I get that it's pretty much universally considered a bad thing, but what is it. Is it an all inclusive term used to refer to all enemy races or factions? Some malevolent non-corporeal force?

    Why and how did it fuck up things and why does it only become a plot point after the traveler arrives at earth?

    The "light" appears to me some manifestation of the traveler's will and purpose, providing extraordinary abilities and space magic, but what is the darkness a manifestation of?

    [–]Amarae 90ポイント91ポイント  (76子コメント)

    What gets me is how the game seemi gly tries to trick you about who your enemy is. THE FALLEN ARE COMING AND THEY ARE GONNA KILL EVERYONE ON EARTH! ...

    just kidding, the fallen are just scavengers but THE HIVE IS THE REAL DEAL! THEY TOOK OUR MOO-

    THE VEX ARE EVIL SO EVIL IT DESPISES OTHER EVIL AND THE BLACK GAR-

    THE CABAL ARE BAD MOTHER HEFFERS AND THEY'RE GONNa FUC- N

    NO ITS THE HIVE AGAIN!

    This game is so schizo about qho your enemy is it feels like a half baked version of Mass Effect. I never once had a clear idea of who the important enemy was in vanilla story and really i still cant understand who the worse threat is supposed to be.

    [–]FreeFallFormation 40ポイント41ポイント  (66子コメント)

    The fallen come to earth to get the traveller back, the hive invaded our solar system and the moon, the vex took over venus and the cabal we sort of caused them to hate us it seems, but they aren't exactly good individuals themselves. The main enemy is the darkness, but the 4 (now 5 considering the taken) races we have faced all have their own history with us and are our enemies.

    [–]moku5 18ポイント19ポイント  (47子コメント)

    Wait so something I didn't fully get from the main post. Did the Fallen fight with us when they came to our solar system to get the Traveler? Why exactly are they so opposed to us, when of the four races they seem the most not hilariously evil.

    [–]FreeFallFormation 29ポイント30ポイント  (12子コメント)

    They likely oppose us because the traveller favored us after it left them, and it seems like they fought us once they found us in our solar system after the collapse.

    [–]moku5 10ポイント11ポイント  (11子コメント)

    So the total d'bags they appear to be.

    [–]trethompson 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Well they grew to sort of worship the traveler, and in their time of need while their civilization was being ravaged the traveler dipped out and found a new place. Then they see that not only is the traveler on our planet, but it's Staying throughout the war we're enduring AND helping us. So they're a little hurt, and jealous.

    [–]Shmeh-Shmeh 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Also it's very badly damaged. That would've annoyed them a bit

    [–]TurboSloth9000 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'm trying to remember if it was in the grimoire or on here, but I know I read somewhere that the Fallen are positive that we ganked the traveler from them when they need it most, and then when they roll up to snatch that shit back, they see we broke it and they got pissed.

    [–]Seeker80 26ポイント27ポイント  (27子コメント)

    Did the Fallen fight with us when they came to our solar system to get the Traveler?

    Yes, they want the Traveler back. That's why they attacked in the Collapse. At the very least, the 'burning of London' was attributed to the House of Devils, and the rest of the European Dead Zone might be their work as well.

    The Houses planned to join forces at the battle of Twilight Gap and overrun the Last City to get to the Traveler. The Queen of the Reef fought with the House of Wolves, slowing them down and ensuring that they missed the battle. Many Guardians fought to defend the City, and they prevailed, partly because the Wolves never showed.

    The Fallen are still trying to get the Traveler even now, and they are also very interested in Guardians and their technology. They never had our abilities, so they try to take our Ghosts and want to find out about our ships too.

    [–]moku5 8ポイント9ポイント  (26子コメント)

    Ah that makes sense. But like. The hive are seemingly defeated, at least there main leadership is, and based on that one Earth mission, the Traveler can start healing again. What exactly is stopping the Traveler from being like "hey dudes nice job not dying, have some light." Like it seems a lot of things are just uphill from here.

    [–]Tigerbones 33ポイント34ポイント  (14子コメント)

    We killed Oryx, sure. But his sisters still exist, who are arguably just as physically strong he is.

    Or the entire Cabal empire. Shit, every Cabal unit in out system are nothing but backwater scouts. We haven't even seen their main forces yet.

    Then the Vex still do fucky time shit, more will probably show up from their dimension.

    There's still a ton of bad stuff left.

    [–]SiderealDreamer 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I'm pretty sure one of the grimoire cards indicates the Cabal in our system are just expendable forward scouts, too. The empire has yet to send their elite units.

    [–]Yetikin 12ポイント13ポイント  (7子コメント)

    In the mission Regicide, there are Three Statues created by hive magic just outside the hall to Oryx. You can scan all three of these with your ghost. One represents Crota, the other oryx...but the third....represent a Hive God we have absolutely no knowledge of. It appears oryx tried to erase this Hive Gods existence in all hive text we've found. I have a feeling something much meaner, badder, and more brutal then oryx is behind it all. I feel like Oryx made himself look like a giant badass but is really lower on the hive god totem pole.

    [–]Toland27 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Add to that that the BoS were penned by Oryx... Either Nokris (the unknown God) is higher than Oryx, or my theory is that he was a son of Oyrx that attempted to start a revolution against the Worms, causing Oryx to disown him and erase him from Hive history.

    [–]Amarae 9ポイント10ポイント  (8子コメント)

    And it didnt elaborate on any of that until recently and even then still not really. They're just enemies for the sake of having things to shoot until you go out of your way to figure out whats happening, hence the schizo feel.

    [–]PM_ME_UR_LULU_PORN 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Also to give us back sniper and shield Jackals cause who the fuck didn't miss those?

    [–]Amarae 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Heh. Real talk though Wire rifles are my bane. Hobgoblins/fallen sniper/Phalanx Cabal Taken can go die in a pit.

    The regular cabal phalanx arent so bad, years of Halo tempered me against shield bearers but goddamn if Destinys bullet magnetism doenst make it impossible to hit the sweet spot sometimes.

    [–]Sometimesummoner 16ポイント17ポイント  (3子コメント)

    I think that's sort of the point. It's a soldier's eye view of the war + "Would you kindly...". We're just grunts with orders and rifles. Why the hell would anyone bother to tell us what's going on? We're just woken up, armed, and told "Go get 'em, Tiger. Why? Is that really important to you right now? they're shooting at you."

    Its a unique type of narrative that quite literally makes you the character. One only video games can really offer. Are you just a soldier that needs to be pointed at an enemy? Or do you sleuth out what you can, hunting ghost shells and grimoire cards and desperately trying to piece together slivers of a 'why' in a conflict that dwarfs your pitiful existence.

    You mean nothing to the Traveller. You mean nothing to Rasputin, or the Vex, or the Hive. You are a child with a toy gun, meddling in the affairs of Gods because a voice in your head told you to.

    [–]khuldrim 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

    The worse threat is the Worms.

    Everyone else has either been driven to fight us because they wanted what we had (Fallen), because that's what they do + worms (hive), because we're in their way + worm worship (vex), or because we're immortal zombies that need to be ended because we're a threat that they can't face that's greater than the hive (cabal).

    I wouldn't doubt it if Destiny 2 had us going interstellar and dealing with an actual Worm.

    [–]ctaps148 23ポイント24ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It's definitely something far beyond the scope of the in-game story so far, and something that even Oryx didn't fully understand. But the Books of Sorrow did open up about it a little bit. At one point, Oryx summons the Darkness to enter into an empty Ogre "vessel" (note that "Deep" = "Darkness"):

    He went out and he created an altar and he prepared an unborn ogre. He called on the Deep, saying:

    I can see you in the sky. You are the waves, which are battles, and the battles are the waves. Come into this vessel I have prepared for you.

    And it arrived, the Deep Itself.

    - XXXI: battle made waves

    ...and then it talks to him...

    Oryx, my King, my friend. Kick back. Relax. Shrug off that armor, set down that blade. Roll your burdened shoulders and let down your guard. This is a place of life, a place of peace.

    Out in the world we ask a simple, true question. A question like, can I kill you, can I rip your world apart? Tell me the truth. For if I don’t ask, someone will ask it of me.

    And they call us evil. Evil! Evil means ‘socially maladaptive.’ We are adaptiveness itself.

    Ah, Oryx, how do we explain it to them? The world is not built on the laws they love. Not on friendship, but on mutual interest. Not on peace, but on victory by any means. The universe is run by extinction, by extermination, by gamma-ray bursts burning up a thousand garden worlds, by howling singularities eating up infant suns. And if life is to live, if anything is to survive through the end of all things, it will live not by the smile but by the sword, not in a soft place but in a hard hell, not in the rotting bog of artificial paradise but in the cold hard self-verifying truth of that one ultimate arbiter, the only judge, the power that is its own metric and its own source—existence, at any cost. Strip away the lies and truces and delaying tactics they call ‘civilization’ and this is what remains, this beautiful shape.

    The fate of everything is made like this, in the collision, the test of one praxis against another. This is how the world changes: one way meets a second way, and they discharge their weapons, they exchange their words and markets, they contest and in doing so they petition each other for the right to go on being something, instead of nothing. This is the universe figuring out what it should be in the end.

    And it is majestic. Majestic. It is the only thing that can be true in and of itself.

    And it is what I am.

    - XXXII: Majestic. Majestic.

    There are also these bits from Oryx later on:

    My lineages are strong, my worm is vast and satiated, and with that security I can spend my time on study and communion with the Deep. As I learn more secrets, my power grows; as my power grows I use it to learn more secrets.

    ...

    Savathûn asks if I am as much a slave of the Deep as my Taken. She asks what price I pay for my power. I am not Taken. The Hive is not the Deep. The Deep doesn’t want everything to be the same: it wants life, strong life, life that lives free without the need for a habitat of games to insulate it from reality. When I make my Taken I make them closer to perfect, I heal their wounds and enhance their strengths. This is inherently good. Aiat: the only right is existence, the only wrong is nonexistence.

    - XLVIII: aiat, aiat, aiat, aiat, aiat

    I asked a question: how can we live in the universe long enough to understand it?

    And I learned the answer, which is written here in this book. I learned that I had to become most ruthless of all.

    I don’t know where the Darkness-which-is-the-Deep came from, nor the Traveler that I hunt. But I will learn. I will learn.

    - XLIX: Forever And A Blade

    So yeah, from what I can gather, the Darkness is more of a force than an actual being, but it's a sentient force (side note: what?) that drives the most powerful creatures and events in the universe. It centers around the idea of "kill or be killed" and the semi-nihilistic principle that if I defeated you, then you deserved to die.

    [–]AllenJacoby 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

    It's a cosmic force - its counterpart is the SKY, not the Traveler. The Traveler is an Agent of the Sky, as the Worms are agents of the Deep (The Darkness.)

    They're just cosmic powers that are both attempting to prevent the inevitable heat death of the universe.

    [–]XB1- Durango JackCoppin-it-washin-it 27ポイント28ポイント  (44子コメント)

    Just bear in mind some of this is speculation or assumption. We don't know if the Hive and Fallen ever came in contact. The evidence of that is shaky at best. Also, the Fallen did NOT come to the solar system before the Darkness. All alien races came long after the Collapse. Finally, the Traveler didn't elect to stay after Rasputin facefucked it. Rasputin crippled the Traveler and it is still currently dormant because of it. The Traveler released the Ghosts in it's last "breath" of light energy. It did this to protect itself, since it knew that Humanity still viewed it as divine. It allowed the Ghosts to find certain people (mostly dead ones) who had the ability to wield the light as a weapon. That is where the Guardians came in. And Guardians have been protecting the City, and therefore the Traveler, for the past few hundred years.

    [–]Now do it againA_Real_Phoenix 18ポイント19ポイント  (31子コメント)

    If the alien races came after the collapse, then what was the collapse? I thought that the collapse was just the aliens destroying civilisation.

    [–][deleted] 11ポイント12ポイント  (22子コメント)

    Nah the collapse was the darkness, whatever that may be.

    [–]HyliasHero 8ポイント9ポイント  (11子コメント)

    Rasputin attacking the Traveller is also speculation. Rasputin had the contingency plan to do it, but only if the Traveller tried to leave which the Alpha Lupi cards pretty much state that it wasn't planning on it because it was tired of running.

    [–]SweepCommand 230ポイント231ポイント  (27子コメント)

    Whoa... So Rasputin put the hurt on the Traveler, because he was trying to abandon us. Dude, F the Traveler, All Hail the Warmind, Rasputin

    [–]jamFRIDGE 105ポイント106ポイント  (25子コメント)

    That's kind of debatable. Rasputin thought the Traveler was going to run, but other grimoire entries hint at the Traveler choosing to stay

    [–]matthra 208ポイント209ポイント  (19子コメント)

    In all fairness, the traveler had already pulled this same routine on other worlds, at the very least the world the fallen came from. I'm kind of on Rasputins side on this one, dude brought us some shiny baubles, and then brought the whole galaxy down on our ears. Shooting him in the leg to make him help us, with the problem he created for us, after said problem had wiped out most of humanity doesn't seem like an overreaction.

    If the traveler had the ability and/or motivation to stop the Hive, he's had 5 billion years to do it in. What are the odds that out of all of the worlds he's visited, he liked this one enough to circle up the wagons and finally deal with that whole pesky Hive thing. Rasputin's gamble was that the traveler had the ability, but not the motivation, so trapping him here forced the traveler to deal with his baggage.

    [–]ChimpusMacoy 93ポイント94ポイント  (8子コメント)

    Nailed it. Now I want a mission where you learn about this, called Rasputin's Gamble.

    [–]Legitamte 52ポイント53ポイント  (7子コメント)

    In general, it sounds like the Traveler's MO is to find a sentient race, uplift them, and grant them the boons of the Light, in the hopes that they'll be powerful enough to defeat the Hive. When they fail, the Traveler leaves to find a new race.

    Really, this isn't that unreasonable of behavior--the Traveler is clearly unable to wield the power of the Light by itself, or else it would have fought the Hive directly, without bothering with the whole uplifting thing; it can only wage war via proxy. As a result, it makes little sense for the Traveler to "go down with the ship"--if it escapes, it will have a chance to uplift another race and try again.

    I don't even think you can really claim that receiving the Traveler's boon endangered us by making us the next target of the Hive, because at this point every sentient race in the universe is on track to be eradicated by the Hive--given the choice between being dying without a chance and dying fighting armed with the best technology and weapons available, I'll choose the latter every time.

    The X-factor really is Rasputin being as brilliant as it is and being given the imperative to ensure its survival at any cost; that imperative is what led it to conclude that the only possible way for it (and, by extension, humanity) to survive was to defeat the Hive once and for all, which would only be possible with the Traveler. This means that we have the best chance of survival of any race the Traveler has uplifted, since the Traveler won't leave us, but should we fail, the Traveler dies with us, and therefore any hope of any future race becoming powerful enough to stop the Hive.

    [–]oaclo 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I'm not so sure about the Traveler looking for champions to defeat the Darkness. Didn't the Leviathan try and tell the sisters that they should just accept that their time in the sun was over and to let the next race have their turn?

    Based on that, I assume that the Traveler just sort of goes around uplifting races, letting them enjoy a taste of utopia, and then letting them die when their time is up.

    What Rasputin supposedly did to coerce the Traveler really seems to be more in keeping with the philosophy of the Deep: do what you have to do to stay on top.

    Also, I'm not sure the Traveler thinks the Hive are as important as you might think. It and the Darkness are way older than the Hive, there's probably been similar champions of the Darkness before.

    [–]MrSnooSnoo 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Rasputins decision points indicate that he would only fire should the traveller start to leave.

    [–]jamFRIDGE 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Only if he felt the Traveler would leave, but Traveler 1 and Traveler 2 both happen before the Traveler gets injured and they both mention the Traveler deciding to save humanity

    [–]xpale 161ポイント162ポイント  (8子コメント)

    Well...it makes more sense than Scientology.

    [–]BabaShrikand 58ポイント59ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Oryx -> xyrO -> Xenu

    Luke Smith -> Ron Hubbard

    Confirmed.

    [–]Indica_Ink 37ポイント38ポイント  (2子コメント)

    'Throw money at the screen'

    Yep, checks out.

    [–]EckoDelta209 226ポイント227ポイント  (93子コメント)

    So the Traveler is a b*tch. And we should be thanking Rasputin for keeping us alive. Which grimoire card had the story on Rasputin blowing a hole in the traveler?

    [–]TDYK all day!ArmorRoyale[S] 264ポイント265ポイント  (87子コメント)

    An understanding and breakdown of the Rasputin grimoire. Originally from /u/Deathslay142:

    As the Darkness waged its war upon humanity, Rasputin slowly became the last surviving Warmind, fighting the Darkness with every weapon ever conceived by Golden Age technologies at the gate of the Black Garden. It was all to no avail though, as the Darkness proved too powerful, even more so than whatever entity was responsible for overlooking the Black Garden which Rasputin acknowledged to be more powerful than himself.

    And so, the Darkness prevailed over Rasputin, but unlike his brothers and sisters, he was made to win against the unbeatable and to learn. And learn he did, casting off the defense of the solar system and allowing billions to die in an effort to survive, learning from the very thing that it was supposed to destroy. - http://planetdestiny.com/story-behind-rasputin/

    Rasputin's Weaponry

    Ghost Fragment: Old Russia covers the launch of an orbital weapon.

    Yes, it is, uh, it is an antimatter payload, a strategic asset. Specifically? Ah, I believe it's an annihilation-pumped caedometric weapon.

    Caedo is the Latin to cut out/down/to pieces, so this weapon is presumably designed to tear into its target, and rip it apart from the inside.

    The entire card has a tone of secrecy to it, mentioning things being done so nobody would notice. It ends with:

    We both know where the order came from.

    In Ghost Fragment: Rasputin we hear Cayde-6 talking about Rasputin's armaments:

    Rasputin pretty much ran the Golden Age, especially all the secret military business. Rasputin had antimatter-powered death rays and a hundred thousand satellites and nearly as much brainpower as me. Rasputin fought the Collapse. It knows things we need.

    This pretty much confirms that the weapon launched was under Rasputin's control, and probably ordered by Rasputin himself.

    Next, we have Ghost Fragment: Mysteries, which (while it isn't immediately obvious) is Rasputin discussing his fight against the Darkness.

    I bear an old name. It cannot be killed - Rasputin's namesake was known for surviving dozens of assassination attempts, against all odds.

    I fought IT with aurora knives and with the stolen un-fire of singularities made sharp

    Knowing Rasputin's weaponry from the previous cards, this starts to tie in the idea of the weapons being blades; knives that cut from the sky with immense power.

    Finally, we get to the Ghost Fragment: The Traveller 3 card. The first two lines:

    The knife had a million blades.

    And you were giant, powerful and swift. But the knife pinned you. Cut your godly flesh away.

    Sounds a lot like Rasputin's weapons, doesn't it? While not a certainty, this gives strong evidence to Rasputin being behind the Traveller's current condition.

    But you said Rasputin didn't cripple the Traveller! - I said that it wasn't out of spite, or malice. I believe it was a purposeful action, that might have just saved us.

    The Collapse

    Rasputin obviously made a major move. On top of his "and now I see the way" comment, there's some interesting data in the Ghost Fragment: Rasputin 3 card.

    Total strategic collapse imminent. FENRIR HEART reports complete operational mortality. SURTR DROWN in progress but negative effect. Forecasts unanimously predict terminal VOLUSPA failure.

    It's possible Fenrir was another Warmind, and this report is at the verge of their failure, along with their emergency protocols failing, too (these names are all Norse themed, and seem to imply last-ditch efforts to defeat an almighty enemy).

    As of CLS000 a HARD CIVILIZATION KILL EVENT is in progress across the operational area.

    This seems to be a prediction that humanity is on the verge of being wiped out. At the very least, on a number of worlds. At most, entirely.

    Finally, the most important part:

    I am declaring YUGA SUNDOWN effective on receipt (epoch reach/FORCECON variant). Cancel counterforce objectives. Cancel population protection objectives.

    Yuga is the Hindu concept of a great day/night cycle, lasting billions of years. Initially, during the day, humanity is closest to the Gods, in their Golden Age. Eventually the day ends, and humanity drifts further into the darkness, growing weaker and weaker.

    YUGA SUNDOWN implies that Rasputin was declaring the Golden Age at an end, and that all hope of conventional retaliation was past.

    Format moral structures for MIDNIGHT EXIGENT.

    This implies that Rasputin is about to do something normally considered highly immoral, as his last ditch effort to beat the Darkness.

    It seems that the best way to fight Darkness, is with Light. And what greater a source of Light than the Traveller itself?.

    It's my opinion, with this information, that Rasputin intentionally turned its arsenal on the Traveler, and crippled it in an almighty blow that sent a wave of Light washing out over the solar system, pushing the Darkness back.

    [–]jcorn427 137ポイント138ポイント  (48子コメント)

    Nice homework! I would also add to this Ghost Fragment: Rasputin 5. Here's the text:

    This is a SUBTLE ASSETS IMPERATIVE (NO HUMAN REVIEW) (NO AI->COM REVIEW) (secure/ABHOR).

    Stand by for CRITERIA:

    Under CARRHAE (WHITE or BLACK)

    If SECURITY STATE is EGYPTIAN

    If event rank is TEILHARD: TRAUMATIC CONTEXT or SKYSHOCK: >OUTSIDE CONTEXT

    If VOLUSPA is ACTIVE and in FAILURE [[synapse to >FENRIR::SURTR]]

    If YUGA is ACTIVE and in SUNDOWN

    If AI-COM has granted PERMISSIVE POTENTIATION to outboard >resilient instances

    If a CIVILIZATION KILL EVENT is underway [[all flexions]]

    If tactical morality is built at MIDNIGHT

    Stand by for DECISION POINT:

    If available ISR and WARWATCH indicates imminent [O] departure

    then [O] departure compromises human/neohuman survival and >epoch strategy

    Stand by for ABHORRENT IMPERATIVE:

    Activate LOKI CROWN

    Perform deniable authorization: full caedometric and noetic release

    Prevent [O] departure by any means available

    Stand by for effect assessment criteria:

    Coerce pseudoaltruistic [O] defensive action.

    Defer civilization kill.

    STOP STOP STOP V101NTS923ATS001

    This card shows the decision tree that Rasputin used to determine that he needed to attack the traveler [O] to prevent it from leaving.

    [–]RampantEntity 109ポイント110ポイント  (28子コメント)

    From reading the post and the Books of Sorrow, it's pretty evident that the "Traveler arrives, Golden Age Dawns, Hive comes to fuck shit up" pattern is pretty standard and has been going on for untold ages. And humans are the first ones that have countermeasures in place to make sure the Traveler stays right the fuck here, if we go down you go with us.

    [–]veldren 75ポイント76ポイント  (13子コメント)

    Especially since the Traveler is what made us a target at all. Yes, it brought about our Golden Age...but we weren't in a bad way anyhow if we were walking on freaking Mars before the Traveler was discovered. So yeah, talk about baggage.

    [–]Llim 69ポイント70ポイント  (12子コメント)

    Humans were eventually going to be targeted anyway because the Hive would have found our solar system at some point. The arrival of the Traveler probably just brought us to the attention of the Hive quicker

    [–]Techfalled15 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

    But what if humanity had, oh let's say, an extra 10,000 years of evolution, scientific discovery, and technological innovation?

    I'd wager if we were at THAT point in our advancement as a species (perhaps we populate multiple interstellar planets, maybe even galaxies) and the traveler showed up, we'd be in a pretty good position to fuck The Hive up.

    [–]Llim 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

    I had thought of that too, but remember that the Hive have been tearing apart civilizations for billions of years - that's longer than we can even comprehend. They've definitely taken out more powerful worlds (remember that the Traveler uplifted the Fallen too, and the Hive would have destroyed the Fallen completely had Oryx's sister not messed things up)

    Even if militarily we were more powerful than the Hive, Oryx can just use his power to transform us into Taken - the Cabal, who are likely more powerful than us, get taken easily. The Books of Sorrow imply that the only thing preventing us from being Taken as well is that Guardians are forged in light, which protects us

    [–]Thetijoy 14ポイント15ポイント  (5子コメント)

    well how far did the traveler advance us? 200/300 years? we were still confined to the inner planets (at most the solar system) to my knowledge considering how long it the hive have been around, i doubt the traveler advanced us more in the time until the hive found us, then we would have on our own.

    [–]johnomuller 16ポイント17ポイント  (3子コメント)

    I guess the difference is that the Hive found us following the traveller, opposed to the Hive finding us by accident after annihilating another species the traveller decided to ascend.

    Which begs the question is the traveller trying to build up a species to defend against the darkness, before bugging out to the next one hoping that the previous is going to stall for enough time so that it will eventually be able to move onto one that can stop the darkness for good?

    [–]Word to Kurtjomiran 49ポイント50ポイント  (12子コメント)

    According to Hobbes, the human natural state is war. I think The Traveler didn't do its proper homework this time and us sneaky backstabbing sacks of mostly water started to work behind its back from the very start.

    If you come bearing gifts, we're going to take them, "thank you", and secretly find where you keep your stash so we can steal it.

    Humans are naturally of Sword Logic

    EDIT: better logic

    [–]RampantEntity 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Suffice to say that some powers in this universe are superordinate to mere material physics.

    [–]Seduz 16ポイント17ポイント  (11子コメント)

    This is awesome. That bit about coercing a pseudoaltruistic action (the attack itself) makes me wonder what kind of "conversation" Rasputin had with the Travel to allow for the attack to go through.

    [–]what_the_deuce 41ポイント42ポイント  (6子コメント)

    coercing a pseudoaltruistic action

    I assumed this meant blowing a hole in The Traveler to force it to stay and save us/itself.

    [–]grimestar 16ポイント17ポイント  (5子コメント)

    I googled psuedo-alstruistic and found this.

    One individual, A(Rasputin?), unable to acknowledge his rage toward a second person, B(The traveler?), comes to the assistance of a third party, C(Humanity?), whom he is convinced has been injured by B. A attacks B or encourages C to do so. In this way A, who experiences difficulty in discharging aggression directly, finds an acceptable means of doing so. He convinces himself that his aggression is warranted by B's behavior and that he acted solely out of concern for C's welfare.

    So from what i gather this is saying that rasputin did indeed attack the traveler to save humanity.

    [–]jcorn427 26ポイント27ポイント  (3子コメント)

    The "coercing" consisted of Rasputin turning his full arsenal on the Traveler and unleashing the caedometric (thought to be anti-matter weapons) and noetic (which oddly means "mental" or having to do with "intellect" so possibly some sort of disruption device to slow the traveler down?) weapons on it. This is the real reason the bottom of the traveler is so messed up. Rasputin did enough damage to the traveler that it couldn't leave so it was left with sending out the light wave and creating the ghosts.

    Edit: The reason it's called "pseudoaltruistic" is because the traveler wouldn't have willingly defended us as an altruistic act unless we forced it to defend itself which would also have the effect of defending us as well.

    [–]Seduz 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Yes I understood this, it makes the most sense. What I was wondering about, however, is the process of coercion itself. Coercion involves actions that persuade through force or threats. It is transactional between involved parties. The force is clear: the caedometric weapons that cut through the travelled. I was unsure of what the threat could be, or if it mattered at all. Now that you clarify noetic as dealing with the "mental," it may be that Rasputin threatened (or slyly persuaded in a way that is almost deceitful, I.e. pseudoaltruistic) the Traveler's conscious/AI/brain/sentience in some way that ensured little resistance to the attack on the Traveler's part. Rasputin may have convinced the Traveler in some way that the attack is "selfless" (altruistic), but it was clearly in the self-interest of Rasputin and humanity's survival (hence the pseudo).

    [–]Deathslay142 63ポイント64ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Woah, hold up there. If you're going to copy almost the entirety of my post, at least give some credit. I spent far more time than I care to admit compiling this (with source links), and would appreciate some recognition. At the least, there's some good discussion in the comments relevant to the topic.

    [–]LuisUsername 10ポイント11ポイント  (21子コメント)

    So im guessing that wave of light killed a lot of people also and made the awoken.

    [–]from_dust 17ポイント18ポイント  (15子コメント)

    As mentioned in the OP, and through the Ghost and Exo Strangers own description the awoken live at the "edge of where the light touches" and are "out there wavering between the light and the dark" The awoken were 'made' from the edge of where the light and the dark met. Like a cauterized scar tissue where humanity was burned, the awoken become something different than what they were to save themselves and are something new in the universe. Its possible they may play a bigger role down the line, a sort of "bringing balance to the force" type of role, but for now, they're essentially refugees without much support from the rest of humanity. Their ambiguous circumstances make it hard to tell which "side" they're on, which is why the Exo Stranger cautions "a side must be chosen... even if its the wrong one"

    [–]Ruvic 8ポイント9ポイント  (13子コメント)

    And now their queen is dead.

    Shit.

    [–]WookiePsychologist 23ポイント24ポイント  (7子コメント)

    Or is she? Did you actually see her body getting ripped apart in the explosion? I think she still has a part to play in the story. Same assumption goes for her brother, Uldren.
    Edit: Apparently Uldren lives on in the grimoire, but who reads the grimoire? /s

    [–]Ruvic 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I think it's safe to assume her body is dead. However, we just killed oryx in our hell and then his, as well as killing crota like eight times. She's down, but not quite out.

    [–]DarkSoren17 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Uldren is alive, see Awoken: Aftermath. You find the ghost close to the entry point inside the Black Garden during that same mission

    [–]TDYK all day!ArmorRoyale[S] 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

    It is unknown at this time.

    [–]ctaps148 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Anything in the new grimoire about who the hell the Speaker is or where he came from?

    [–]Ruvic 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I think the speaker is just a human granted authority to represent the traveler. Basically, he's the space pope.

    [–]Hunters UnwantedBronzePod 81ポイント82ポイント  (12子コメント)

    Traveller's a dick, yo!

    [–]rottenbeka 34ポイント35ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Yeah i never trusted that thing or his speaker...

    [–]Albi_ze_RacistDragon 18ポイント19ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Not since Underworld and Dead Man's Chest

    [–]rottenbeka 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Haha true his character is never good in anything I would watch lol...Also, I think he looks like Baldur from Bayonetta

    [–]LucasRAholan 11ポイント12ポイント  (6子コメント)

    Looks like everything is the Worms fault along with the Traveller being a massive coward

    [–]zanda250 22ポイント23ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Coward? Little harsh. He fled a losing battle that he couldn't prevent. Not cowardly I would say, because fighting would be a futile death and would prevent any chance of finding a new planet to uplift. I mean, even with all of our tech and firepower we couldn't stop the darkness at all. The traveler expended so much energy making the ghosts and the burst of light that it is inert now. And even using all of it's power all it really did was push the darkness back a bit. And it wasn't even the strongest of the darkness, as the main hive bad guys weren't even there. So all of the travelers energy barely managed to stall a secondary fleet of the darkness. So I think running is understandable.

    [–]frasafrase 26ポイント27ポイント  (8子コメント)

    I have to say that I am very suspect on the Qugu being equated to Eliksni. I don't think the grimoire directly tie the Qugu to the Traveler.

    Really the only thing you are going off of to connect the two is the part about offering blank to blank-gods in order to blank.

    With Qugu, its Offering limbs to jaw-beasts-gods in order to give birth.

    But with Fallen, its Offering scavenged material to machine-gods in order to "breath".

    [–]xaoshaen 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

    It's a little bit more than that since the Fallen still offer up limbs as a gesture of subservience, but I'd agree that the link is still tenuous.

    [–]moogleiii 25ポイント26ポイント  (4子コメント)

    During a war between one of the other races on their planet the king dies, one of his kids takes the dead talking larvae and ran away with the other 2 kids.

    I thought the other race was actually the same species as them (but with more military power).

    "HELIUM DRINKERS. The currents of the Fundament Ocean bring us near other continents. The Helium Court is near us now. They are of our species, but they are our enemies. Their knights raid us every day. Helium Drinkers have two legs, two arms, and three eyes, just like us. But they are bright/evil. I want to be a knight and fight them!"

    [–]Symbolic-DeTH 45ポイント46ポイント  (5子コメント)

    This is so fucking good if its really accurate. Ive been looking for an overall summary like this for a while. Nicely done!

    [–]alexfrancisco 18ポイント19ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Check out destinytimeline.com Really well put together.

    [–]LubyVuitton 79ポイント80ポイント  (9子コメント)

    dont forget oryx started as aurash and was a she. We fight him post-op though so its okay.

    [–]A_Cylon_Raider 55ポイント56ポイント  (6子コメント)

    Sounds like their race all starts out as female and don't differentiate until maturity, taking different morphs (knight, mother, king, etc).

    [–]FreeFallFormation 19ポイント20ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Wasn't the traveller considered the 53rd moon?

    [–]TDYK all day!ArmorRoyale[S] 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Correct. Editing shortly.

    See: XIV: 52 and One

    [–]OK_just_the_tip 33ポイント34ポイント  (2子コメント)

    live Gandolf-lengthed lives

    Don't you mean Numenoreans? Do you even Silmarillion?

    [–]badkarma13136 31ポイント32ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Dear Bungie,

    Please integrate this whole space opera into Destiny 2 properly.

    Thanks, Everyone who hates mobile companion apps

    [–]throwin wolfpack rounds at my screenmarcio0 41ポイント42ポイント  (10子コメント)

    Awesome!

    So the Traveller was about to fuck us up and Raputin shot his knee?!

    Looks like TTK really brought lore into the game.

    [–]joelom 66ポイント67ポイント  (8子コメント)

    No he was going to abandon us....and then took out knees

    [–]wisedrgn 33ポイント34ポイント  (6子コメント)

    Too bad Rasputin is not a Nightstalker.

    Then the Traveler could've taken an arrow to the knee.

    [–]poohster33 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I used to abandon worlds until I took a death ray to the dome.

    [–]Grimoire WriterGeneralBattuta 10ポイント11ポイント  (4子コメント)

    I think it's really, really unlikely that the Qugu are the Fallen. The timelines just don't match up.

    [–]Devium44 36ポイント37ポイント  (3子コメント)

    This should be titled Rick Sanchez recounts the history of the Destiny Universe

    [–]Trinitykill 22ポイント23ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I ever tell you about the Hive Morty? Reeeeal assholes Morty.

    [–]YMMVSPSFD 40ポイント41ポイント  (62子コメント)

    That was very well distilled.

    Now tackle the rest of the story and...

    [–]TDYK all day!ArmorRoyale[S] 91ポイント92ポイント  (61子コメント)

    We don't know enough about the Cabal yet and the distilled version of the Vex is pretty much robotic space herpes. You can't get rid of it, you think you do then it pops up again down the road.

    [–]YMMVSPSFD 132ポイント133ポイント  (37子コメント)

    We don't know enough about the Cabal yet

    Sure we do: 800 pounds and destroy planets just for getting in their way... :P

    [–]Its_the_other_tj 74ポイント75ポイント  (13子コメント)

    Don't forget that when they go to war they are literally expelled from the empire so they're only option is to win or die trying.

    [–]Spyer2k 73ポイント74ポイント  (12子コメント)

    6 words for advance, none for retreat.

    Which is funny since in the Bond Brothers strike it says so and so flees in the bottom left.

    [–]AdrunkGirlScout 136ポイント137ポイント  (7子コメント)

    It's just advancing in the other direction.

    [–]cefriano 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

    One of their words for "advance" just means "backwards advance."

    [–]merkwerk 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Top kek

    [–][PSN] Zero132132Zero132132 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Tactical inverse-advance. Not the same as running away like a bitch.

    [–]TDYK all day!ArmorRoyale[S] 31ポイント32ポイント  (9子コメント)

    In my own opinion They REALLY come off as a splintered mirror-image of the Warhammer 40,000 books.

    [–]Cryptardian 22ポイント23ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Considering every one of the Hive is basically a champion of Chaos, the fuckhuge bastards with rocket bullets aren't the only things that mirror 40k.

    Either way I'm for it. Love that sci-fi dystopia.

    [–]from_dust 11ポイント12ポイント  (4子コメント)

    They're basically Vogons from Hitchhikers guide with guns.

    [–]Deviant_Cain 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

    I like to think of them as the goombas in the super Mario bros movie.

    [–]Bacon_Hammers 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

    They're clearly Sontarans

    [–]fazelanvari 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I think you meant potatoes.

    [–]DRACULA_WOLFMAN 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    "I'm the clever one, you're the potato one."

    Best damn line in the whole series.

    [–]mntngt 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    "Space Turtles"

    [–]Llim 17ポイント18ポイント  (3子コメント)

    I'm really hoping we see much more of the Cabal soon in the next expansions, and I think we will. We know that there are hints about the future of the game in TTK, and there are tons of references to the "Cabal Empire" which is located far outside our solar system, plus the story mission where we shut down a Cabal broadcast that's being sent outside the Solar System. So I really think that the Cabal are the subject of the next expansion

    [–]Mercarcher 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Nope, next is the Vex Void. Then after that we get Forge of Gods which is Cabal focused.

    [–]invisusira 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

    You should probably mention that their planet was a gas giant. Clears up a lot of the tidal wave of death/going into the planet's core stuff.

    [–]DapperDodger 16ポイント17ポイント  (2子コメント)

    During a war between one of the other races on their planet the king dies, one of his kids takes the dead talking larvae and ran away with the other 2 kids

    I'm pretty sure it was another city of the Hive species that they warred with, not another race. And weren't they betrayed, not really at war? Or at least when I read the Grimore thats what it sounded like to me

    [–]TDYK all day!ArmorRoyale[S] 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

    It's a TL;DR bud. but yes, you are more or less right.

    The currents of the Fundament Ocean bring us near other continents. The Helium Court is near us now. They are of our species, but they are our enemies. Their knights raid us every day. Helium Drinkers have two legs, two arms, and three eyes, just like us. But they are bright/evil. I want to be a knight and fight them! The Helium Drinker ambassador ate ten of my sisters as tribute. This is normal. However, I resent it.

    Also: II: The Hateful Verse

    Also: V: Needle and Worm

    [–]DapperDodger 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Haha I know, I swear I wasn't trying to be a buzzkill. I just didn't want people to be confused by the "other species" thing really

    [–]ev_forklift 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I feel like this was written by Handsome Jack.

    [–]Infiltrator92 15ポイント16ポイント  (5子コメント)

    I think you should mention that oryx killed his sisters for their sword skills before fucking up his Worm God, and also that his sisters left him a long time before he came to earth.

    Oh and one more thing, I'm pretty sure it was Oryx's cunning sister that orchestrated the Vex to enter his Throne world when Crota cut through the dimensions, not Crota's sisters.

    [–]guatemalianrhino 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I feel like this story should be in the game somewhere but that's just me I guess.

    [–]menberries 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Great job, loved the read. Only small error is in the number of moons of Fundament. From fragment XIV, Verse 2:4 — 52 and One:

    Our organs detect a fifty-third moon in orbit of Fundament. A Traveler. Divine presence of the Sky. Now we know what arranged the syzygy.

    [–]jackvico 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Awesome! I didn't know Rasputin damaged the traveler to stop it from escaping . I wish there was more on the darkness somewhere .

    [–]TheGnomie 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Movie would be dope.

    [–]KuroTheCrazy 5ポイント6ポイント  (6子コメント)

    I'm a little confused on how you made the connection between the Qugu and the Eliksni/Fallen. I get the

    The virus compels them to offer their limbs for amputation

    Part, but the rest doesn't match in in my mind. Still, an awesome creation, and definitely helps to clear up some things left open by the BoS (plus I never knew the Rasputin bit).

    [–]TDYK all day!ArmorRoyale[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

    They chase the Traveler. The Traveler was with the Qugu at some point. It is possible the Traveler cured them and the arm cutting became a cultural practice afterwards.

    [–]j0sephl 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I think this is a bit of a stretch. In the millions of years the Qugu are among many species the traveler has helped. I believe The Fallen/Eliksni are a more recent race like humans to receive the travelers help and I think the two Qugu and Eliksni are unrelated.

    [–]KuroTheCrazy 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

    That does make some more sense, but I still wouldn't take these two small connections (self-amputation and the Traveler) to prove that the Qugu are the same as the Eliksni.

    [–]BKusser25 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

    So basically Oryx is a huge piece of shit and has been for 5,000,000,000 years.

    [–]Xaukael 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Oryx became the immortal god of his species by entering a symbiosis with a creature that could communicate directly with The Darkness (The Deep). Oryx, or to be more accurate the Krill he once was, took an oath to forever be curious. This combined with the Sword Logic that is the way of The Darkness forces him to find all life and destroy it until he comes up against something he cannot defeat. Oryx and his sister's originally only wanted to avenge their father and escape the God Wave that their father predicted. The hunger of the Worm is what always prevented them from making peace.

    TLDR: Oryx is just doing what he has to to satiate the worm inside him and the worm is essentially a mouthpiece of the darkness.

    [–]AaronMT 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    During a war between one of the other races on their planet the king dies, one of his kids takes the dead talking larvae and ran away with the other 2 kids.

    I imagined toddler Oryx with a backpack running away crying

    [–]Hunter Master-Race(GT: Deen)pun-enthusiast 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

    So basically, we sit here and camp(legitimate strategy) while essentially gods come to our door step where thanks to our crippled stepdad we can fight em off. I say if the traveler tries to make a move we celestial nighthawk his ass.

    [–]MakeItTrizzle 19ポイント20ポイント  (21子コメント)

    Good on you for "plain languaging" the Book of Sorrows, but I feel like we're taking it a little too much at its word. First of all, it's written by Oryx, hardly an unbiased or reliable narrator. Second, it's basically a religious text, so taking it at face value is probably not going to give us an accurate portrayal of actual (in universe) events.

    It's some really cool lore, and very informative of hive history and the nature of the darkness, but I'd take the stories and anecdotes contained therein with a big grain of salt.

    [–]TDYK all day!ArmorRoyale[S] 24ポイント25ポイント  (18子コメント)

    This is what we know thus far. I understand that this is to be taken with a grain of salt. But every lie has its truth. This is the truth we know so far and what Bungie ultimately want us to believe for the time being.

    The Vex and their time-fuckery could jumble-fuck everything around in a future DLC for all we know. But for now, this is the truth we know.

    [–]Beast of a JunkerDisco_Jones 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

    We don't know for sure that the Qugu are Fallen. There is really very little similarity depicted between the two.

    Overall this write-up is pretty good but I don't get why you leapt to such a conclusion. They were not a golden-age civilization like we know the Eliksni were. Oryx says that his sister eradicated then from existence.

    Also, Oryx slayed Akka in order to fight the Ecumene, not the Vex.

    [–]megabones67 3ポイント4ポイント  (14子コメント)

    I hate to be that guy but may i ask for the source of all this so i may read further? really loved the summary, thanks for posting it for us noob kinderguardians

    [–]ComicalArtorias 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Totally read this in Cayde-6's voice.

    [–]Pwnocchio 4ポイント5ポイント  (13子コメント)

    So, I can't tell if maybe I've been wrong all this time or if this is just super condensed/simplified in a way that might be fractionally off about the Hive - but aren't they just agents of the Darkness, and not the Darkness themselves?

    [–]entropy512 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    The way BoS reads, the Hive worms are in some ways the Darkness' equivalent of our Ghosts.

    There's a lot of talk in the BoS about worms, but adult "worms" have descriptions more along the line of "wyrm" aka "dragon", which has led to a lot of speculation in other Reddit posts that the Ahamkara and the hive Wyrms may be connected (possibly splinter factions of the same species?)

    The Hive's "wyrms" seem to be intimately connected with the Darkness - initially it seems like they might be the Darkness, but later in the BoS there's talk of the Deep, which seems almost like a Darkness that the "Worm Gods" themselves worship.

    [–]vinsreddit 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Solid use of the verb "murderfacing." I like the cut of your jib.

    [–]Knights of AuroraKadem2 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

    You kinda messed up the vex and taken part. Oryx gets his taken power by killing his siblings in their throne rooms and gaining the sword logic to kill Akka. He used this to eliminate the Ecemune. The vex infiltrate his throne room waaaay after he gets the ability to take living things.

    [–]NinStarRune 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    The God-Wave was not stopped. Verse 2:7

    Even as your sisters press the attack against the Ammonites, the God-Wave devastates Fundament. Trillions will die. But the survivors will not forget...and their descendants will always be ready for another syzygy.

    [–]EternalNarcissist 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

    My only issue with this post is that according to the dreams of Alpha Lupi, the Traveller had actually decided to stay and fight. Of course, it's possible that Rasputin didn't know that at the time.

    [–]isokin 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

    From Ghost Fragment: Old Russia 3

    The Traveler came out of nowhere. Entirely unanticipated.

    Imagine if it hadn’t been friendly. Imagine that.

    Rasputin surely has.

    [–]xIx_EDGE_xIx 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Just throwing this out there, but doesn't Oryx have at least four daughters? There's a mission in the Cosmodrome called "Blighted Coven" where you have to take out four blights, then go down underneath into the tunnels and take out three wizards.

    Their names are:

    • Mysik, Daughter of Oryx
    • Zyrak, Daughter of Oryx
    • Thyshik, Matron of Oryx (Wife?)

    So if this is accurate, then so far in the game we've defeated Oryx himself, his Matron Thyshik, his son Crota, his daughters Ir Anuk and Ir Halak in the raid, and two more daughters Mysik and Zyrak in a story mission. Plus whomever Ir Yut is.

    [–]Guregnack 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I think he has many children, which all start as thralls and work their way up to ascendant status. I bet he only recognizes the powerful ones. I'm most curious about Nokris the left statue at the altar of oryx, in the regicide mission.

    [–]thePOWERSerg 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Soooooooooooo........... Rasputin is the Awoken's Daddy?

    [–]Guregnack 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    So in regards to the qugu=fallen debate, it's very much speculation.

    Ark ship is referring to a seed ship. Like Noah's ark. The fallen have many ketch and not a single ark.

    The book properly refers to all other species, why wouldn't it call the fallen "eliksni". The text read has to be a translation and something like qugu to eliksni would not be overlooked.

    The fallen have no evident parasite that causes egg formation.

    [–]TCBx1000 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    wow even if there are mistakes which some people claim - it's interesting to say the least.

    [–]mewarmo990 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

    So, uh...

    Where is the Cabal in all this? They weren't mentioned at all.

    [–]Evoloner 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    F'ing amazing man, f'ing amazing! Thank you!