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[Discussion] What went wrong? (self.reddevils)

legojs が 投稿

So, it was an exciting game overall, regardless of the score. I wanted to have a discussion about what happened in the first half and why it happened and what went wrong. Was it the wingers? Not being able to defend well? Unlucky? What could we have done to prevent such problem? Any thoughts will be appreciated

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[–]AxelnitePogba 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

KDB was Class, Fernandinho was Class. Can't do anything about that. I'm actually don't know where it went wrong. Can't blame Rooney, he was brillaint at running around and showing determination. Mkhi couldn't handle this game, as couldn't Pogba, but it's still early days in the season yet.

Thursday can't come quick enough!

[–]PmMeUrGrammerMistakehates /u/mufccirclejerk he is a cunt 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

but it's still early days in the season yet.

Underrated comment right here. People need to understand this.

[–]dolphin9999Wayne Pogboom 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes your completely right but If we want to win the title we need to be ruthless

[–]danskzwag -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Does running around and showing determination win you matches?

[–]kaoticreapzSchweinsteiger 14ポイント15ポイント  (7子コメント)

  • No control of the midfield.

  • Extremely poor performances from Mkhitaryan and Lingard in the first half.

  • Blind making mistakes for both goals.

  • Ibrahimovic not finishing well enough on so many chances.

  • Last substitution didn't work out, should've been Smalling.

[–]wasamatore18 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

Bailly was at fault for the first one aswell imo.

[–]kaoticreapzSchweinsteiger 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Both of them should be held accountable. Atleast one of them should've done better, either against Iheanachio's header or De Bruyne's touch.

[–]Droidx1De Gea 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not sure, I think baillys ok thinking the flick on is acceptable, given blind and de bruynes position, 99% of the time the flick on goes to blind who moves forward to meet it

[–]Droidx1De Gea 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think blind and zlatan were the deciders like you said there, zlatan missed the chances from bravos mistakes, city didn't miss the chances from blinds mistakes

[–]PmMeUrGrammerMistakehates /u/mufccirclejerk he is a cunt 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Last substitution didn't work out, should've been Smalling.

Maybe to have an "all-out" attack? It was going to be now or never. City were playing with 5 defenders toward the end .

[–]kaoticreapzSchweinsteiger 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If we were going to cross the ball so much, Smalling should've been the one.

Mourinho should've considered that Pep will shift to five at the back to deny Martial the space and contest all the headers.

[–]P-SAC 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agree with all points except this smalling one too.

[–]manny8361Fosu-Mensah 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think this the why Pogba plays best in a 4-3-3...hes is not a holding midfielder. I think a 4-3-3 with Pogba Felliani Herrera as a our midfield would be great. With Rashgod/Martial - Ibra - Rooney as the front 3. Pogba just didnt show up defensively...his offensive breaks were still good(credit where its due).

EDIT: Also the reasoning behind starting Lingard and Mkhi was great but they both are coming off injury's and haven't started a PL game all season. High risk High reward which didn't pay off.

[–]OneTrueEmiyagoals against City 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Starting Mkhi and Lingard, but Mourinho couldn't have known that both would be outplayed that badly.

[–]Red_ReddingtonMartial 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Looked like nerves to me.

[–]selotipkusutMarcus Rashgod 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

2nd goal, definitely unlucky but could have been prevented if we marked Iheanacho correctly. Mkhi & Lingard just switched off.

[–]DerpyNerdy 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

In the first half, nothing went right. As simple as that. You can't say luck was completely against us. We were lucky not to concede a third goal from KDB. I honestly thought that would go in but it didn't.

Mou made a fatal mistake today with his team selection but I'm sure he will learn from this.

From this day onwards, I seriously doubt Mou will hold back Rashford any longer.

(Edit : I wanted to talk about Mkhi and Lingaard but Mou will take the blame today. Can't really fault the two.)

[–]bosnian_red 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Too sloppy in the first half, lacked the intensity City had. Lingard and Mkhitaryan were too soft in that half while Ibra lacked composure and Pogba seemed a bit overawed by the occasion. Don't really think the approach was wrong, just concentration and intensity not there.

[–]SchneidsteigerHerrera 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Mourinho got his team wrong + players didn't turn up in the first half. Almost everyone except for Pogba and Rooney had a mare in the first 45. Luckily for us, so did Bravo.

[–]FizzypoptartsRooney 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Team selection in the first half. We had no width. Playing 2 people who havent started the last few games was not a good idea. Every attack died with them in the flanks.

[–]SSNSanchez 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Mhitaryan being lethargic, Lingard having a poor game, Pogba not disciplined enough to play in a double pivot.

[–]PM_ME_UR_HORNY_PICS 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

We didn't play well in the first half. Lingard and Mhki were shocking. Also Mou tactics went wrong. Good game nonetheless.

[–]Avenged_KnotMagic Mike 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It was giving Mkhitarian his first start and Lingard his first start in a month against the best team we'll play in the league coupled with a centre-back pairing of a young lad new to the league and a midfielder. Blind has looked good against lesser teams but he will continue to make mistakes when under that much pressure.

[–]RhazmuzCarrick 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The set up from the start of the match was wrong. The 4-2-3-1 failed miserably, and Lingaard and Miki should not have started.

If we had set up like in the 2nd half from the start would have been a different match I feel.

Hopefullt Mou has learnt from this.

[–]Lawlietttt 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

  • Pogba completely out of position all first half. Then showboating all second half

  • Blind making an error on both goals.

  • Mkhi being wank.

  • Lingard being wank

  • Martial not doing anything once subbed on

[–]danskzwag -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

What did you expect from Martial we were playing Hoofball

[–]BBQ_HaX0rStannis the Mannis 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Our first half. We seemed unprepared for their pressing and not up to the occasion. Lingard/Mkhi didn't look ready to start. Blind's boner popped up at the worst time. Hell look at our effort on Nacho's goal. They quit. I'm glad they responded though because that first 40 was embarrassing. Tactically we were off. Pogba had a bad game. It happens. We clearly showed we can compete and even though it's a bad result the season is long and City's weakness (defensive lapses) will come back to haunt them during the course of the season.

[–]mynameisnobody33 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think our team just started very flat footed and sloppy touches. It was the start of the game that did us in. I can't wait for the next game. This was a wake up call for United. I feel this is the type of game that becomes a good loss because I think it gives players a better perspective of what needs to be the standard of play moving forward.

[–]NikitaScherbak 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

In my opinion, we didnt see enough of the fullback/winger overlap that was so good for us in the past few games.

[–]lawanhawizy[🍰] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Our summer signings all struggled:

  • Giving a debut start to a player in a new league, in a derby and against a Guardiola team.

  • Bailly looked uncomfortable dealing with high balls.

  • Zlatan and Pogba were disappointing all game. Giving possession away and getting bullied off the ball.

[–]3owa 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Too much reliance on height and crossing as plan B. If this were Moyes, he would have been castrated. There needs to be a structured Plan B rather than just going 3 at the back and lumping everything and everyone up.

[–]Isho7 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

We just seemed lazy and tried to let the game come to us for the first half while city kept pushing and pushing. They went in on every tackle and kept retaining possession and creating chances while we just sat back and watched.

Blind was directly at fault for both goals. Huge oversight and a perfect example why a small sample size isn't good to define a player as world class in a position that he doesn't normally play.

It was also a mistake starting Lingard and Mkhi. Despite him winning the FA cup for us and scoring in the community shield, I'm not very high on Lingard. He's useful to have on the squad as a utility player or someone who can fill in while our starters are injured, but certainly NOT someone who should be a starter in such a massive match such as this! I don't think he'll be starting again anytime soon. He let Mourinho down completely.

Mkhi I think is still trying to adapt to the PL. Bit strange that he didn't get a start in our earlier matches but he gets given the green light against City.... especially considering he picked up that minor injury with Armenia a few days ago.

Despite the above I think we saw a lot of positives in the 2nd half. Martial substitution was a bit questionable but besides that I think we're heading in the right direction.

City were just better than us in the first half and capitalised on our mistakes.

[–]anterax 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He got his tactics wrong, Mourinho (and I'm not saying that he's a bad manager or that he should leave out whatever else). Why try to bring city's full backs more central by playing Mkhitaryan and Lingard when they've got the more mobile midfield? Should've started both Rashford and Martial and tried to isolate the full backs out wide before crossing.

Which brings me to the crossing, i don't remember too many when half-decent ones today.

Also, since when has Rooney become a number 7?

There should've been no need to play Herrera at all. Recycling the ball when city go 5 at the back without a striker isn't really what we should needing to do. We should've been more incisive in attack from the start.

Oh well, it's easy for me to talk and it's a long season...

[–]DANNYWELBECK12345 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Couldn't pick up Silva or KdB probably would've been best to play 433 Rooney benched for Herrera.

Even tho Rooney played okay, the 4231 has too many gaps.

[–]damien_awUncle Pat 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

*Rooney's usual performance giving the ball away and linking up poorly without the assist/goal he's been getting. Look at Kevin De Bruyne for how a top level 10 should play! I know it's a recurring theme here but Rooney is NOT good enough to play 10 for MUFC any more.

*Pogba had zero positional discipline/Fellaini left to cover whole central area and track KDB alone (poorly).

*Team selection/Mkhitaryan and Lingard horrific. Rashford not starting.

*Tactically outclassed for most the game. Very lucky to not get embarrassed on the counter and lose by more. Imagine Kompany and Aguero playing.

*Referee booking us far too easily, felt one sided for a period and he made a big mistake on the Rooney/Bravo incident but we didn't deserve a point anyway.

[–]TrebolationsJose Mourinho 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This was always going to be a tricky game. Jose knows that the best way, maybe even the only way, to beat a Pep team is to park the bus and counter. However, since we're playing at home he knew that many, especially the fans, won't stand for us parking at home which is meant to be our fortress. He could get away with it at Real and Inter because those teams just wanted to win, he could get away with it in Chelsea because he was the Boss over there but he can't get away with it with us. Imagine if he decided to park and counter and KdB still carved us apart, all the fans and pundits and the likes would've ripped him. The only teams that can conceivably play head to head with a Pep team in possession are Real, Barca and Bayern because their teams are clearly superior to City's. Ours isn't.

Another issue is that we definitely needed pace. Lingard and Mkhi offered that but Lingard shouldn't have started the game and Mkhi shat the bed. If anything, Rashford should've started over Lingard and maybe even keep Martial in the side.

It's annoying as hell to have City end our perfect start but it's a lesson that's best learnt early rather than late. Also, Pogba going anonymous did not help at all.

[–]DanielTrajMemphis 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm sorry but I'm really trying it hard to find out what was so good about Rooney, everything ive seen is positive whereas I feel the same wouldve been different if he came off. In my opinion he slowed down the play, alright he ran back and tackled people, put heaps of crosses in, but I feel like he slowed us down.

[–]anterax 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Totally agree, he really needs to be given a rest. He's not good enough to be a midfielder and he's definitely not a right winger. Him tracking back is brilliant when he's a striker and we need to protect a lead but that's really not what he should be in the team for

[–]globalgamer -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

Mikhataryan was atrocious and so was Lingard in the first half...those two cost us the game.

[–]RFerrer-Blind 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Not at all. They were both wank but neither cost us the game. There were so many team-tactical issues and poor individual performances in that first half that cost us the game. To put it down to two players is a load of shite. I'd probably argue that Mourinho lost us the game more than anyone else.

[–]globalgamer 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I disagree...go watch the first half again. Mikhataryan and lingard lost the ball more than 10 times in the first half. Everything changed when we replaced those two by players who can actually hold the ball.

[–]RFerrer-Blind 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Mikhataryan and lingard lost the ball more than 10 times in the first half.

Yes, they were shit, possibly the worst performers in that first half, but their performances weren't the biggest contributors to the loss.

[–]Takley -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Mourinhos tactics.

[–]Mr4do -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

The tactics and the selection of players. Today is one of those performances where afterward the manager should look at himself and admit that he failed. The players obsiously gave all, but didn't know what to do.

[–]BloodyMess111 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Really? Did Miki and Lingard give their all? Could Mourinho predict Blind would shit the bed like that for the first goal?

[–]_Mayama_#2sweet 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Tactic maybe. But Lingard and Miki were trusted to do the job and both of them failed.