This is an archived post. You won't be able to vote or comment.

全 53 件のコメント

[–][削除されました]  (4子コメント)

[removed]

    [–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

    [removed]

      [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

      [removed]

        [–]haywire 84ポイント85ポイント  (3子コメント)

        from girls who demonize manipulation

        I more take issue with it because manipulation is firstly fundamentally dishonest (and honesty is core to who I am), and secondly because it's a dark path and if you get used to doing it, can lead to abuse.

        It's perfectly easy to get with a pretty and interesting girl if you are confident and open minded and easy going, and do so on your own terms, too. Smoking and drinking helps, too, but I'd prefer to suck up the physical damage of those things than the mental damage of being dishonest.

        Lastly, it would seem intellectually wrong to think of ourselves (men) as these beings that are complex and capable of taking our lives into our own hands, and then talking about women like they are some general mass of animals that just follow evolutionary trends. They too are capable of doing their own thing - some don't even want kids, are asexual, bisexual, honest, dishonest, driven, manipulative, loving, caring, abused...whatever. Generalising is tricky - I understand that on one hand it's important to try and see patterns in human behaviour, however you have to remember that everyone is an individual.

        [–]rpcrazy 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

        You don't get many objective "from all angles" opinions like these anymore on reddit...i'm following you now. Thank you for your contribution to the internet

        [–]daykid 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I like to reread the posts in the sidebar every other week or so, and I always like to come back to this post, and this comment in particular. I often go through RP articles and discussion reading a lot of comments that generalize women. I understand that generalizations are useful, but I feel like everyone here gets swept up in some type of 'males are superior, women are inferior' attitude.

        For me, your comment always brings me back to a good mindset from which to read about and consider the discussions we have here. Yeah, feminism is a bitch. Some women are psycho and controlling. That doesn't mean that we, as men, have to become completely bitter and unreasonable about it.

        I realize that I'm going NAWALT here to a degree, but it helps to keep me from losing focus. Understanding that women are individuals and have the ability to disregard female behavior patterns is important. The mods do a good job, but I still feel like as this sub grows, we're going to lose sight of that, only to suffer as a result.

        [–][削除されました]  (25子コメント)

        [deleted]

          [–]Edgar_Allan_Rich 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

          That's cool. How about a beer then?

          [–][deleted] 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

          Don't mind if I do.

          [–]Can_I_Lick_Ur_Bootay 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Would you like to grab some sandwiches or something some time on me?

          [–][deleted] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I'm always open to meeting new people. Hehe.

          [–]ThumoticJonFrost25 8ポイント9ポイント  (8子コメント)

          Actually, two of the best contemporary writers on masculinity/red pill issues are gay men - Donovan and Palahniuk. Gay guys have a particular interest in understanding and defining masculinity, because they can't make up for their confusion by banging a bunch of chicks and calling it a day, the way most of us straight guys do.

          [–][削除されました]  (7子コメント)

          [deleted]

            [–]crateNburro 39ポイント40ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I was wondering if I was the only person with your reaction. The narrative above seems like something that might have resonated with me in college, but looks immature to me now. Just came to say I got the same impression that you did

            [–][deleted] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

            A lot of people in this forum are young dudes who JUST figured out female psychology. ;)

            [–]pk_atheist[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (10子コメント)

            Haha, I'm not sure it will help you.. but my experience on the gay marketplace is minimal. You're welcome to stay and join the conversation either way.

            [–][削除されました]  (8子コメント)

            [deleted]

              [–]tyciol 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

              a colleague I've just met show me a video where he was fucking a prostitute.

              That's so strange-seeming it almost makes me wonder if someone would show that to you to get your horny? Kind of like if 2 guys are watching TV, whatever the first guy to suggest watching porn together is thinking.

              Wouldn't be possible that if it's necessary to go trough all this to get a girl - is she really worth it?

              A good issue to bring up. There's going to be balance between 'game' and genuinely getting to know someone, after all. Presumably after initial interest is built and you begin bonding a bit, you can learn more about such details and see if there's long-term potential?

              Wouldn't it be possible to simply skip this shit and ignore these kind of ladies?

              Possibly in the more absurd cases, sure (I agree being asked to buy someone a drink is a turnoff) but probably not in the subtler cases because not all tactics are apparent for what they are.

              [–][deleted] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

              "Wouldn't it be possible to simply skip this shit and ignore these kind of ladies? "

              Yes but most guys, for lack of creative ability or lack of interesting things they are doing in their life, are stuck going to bars and finding people who end up thinking just as highly of them when it's all said and done.

              [–]pk_atheist[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

              Wouldn't be possible that if it's necessary to go trough all this to get a girl - is she really worth it? Or am I totally missing the point?

              I think the problem spurs from this: Humans have an innate urge to sexuality. Where that sexual urge aims is irrelevant. This sexual urge can be described many ways- there's an urge to find happiness by settling down, there's the immediate urge to get off when you're aroused, and there's a mid-way urge when you meet somebody you're attracted to.

              Unfortunately, this is an evolutionary drive. Without this drive, humans probably wouldn't have made it as long as we have. So it's important to note that it's pretty intrinsic to us as life forms.

              In order for these urges to have an effect, there's a counter-measure put into place, making us unhappy when we're not fulfilling our evolutionary goals that stimulate our pleasure centers. There's a reason why being lonely isn't fun, because it's evolutionarily advantageous to seek out mates and even friends!

              So, if she's work is she really worth it?

              There's a myth that game isn't necessary if you just find the right one(TM). I would like to put this myth to rest. Game is a necessary component of being competitive in the sexual market. Of course there will be instances where tighter game helps more or less, and in some cases, if the girl you're going for has a significantly smaller sexual market value, you can make a lot more mistakes...

              But your value in the sexual market place is somewhat tied to your game (and of course attractiveness as well).

              So yes, game is required. Anybody who thinks game isn't necessary, that the red pill truths are extreme examples that should not apply- well that's a guy who ends up 4 years into a loveless marriage with a wife who wants a divorce.

              The red pill truths aren't true to everybody.. until they realize they're not the exception they thought they were.

              Wouldn't be possible that if it's necessary to go trough all this to get a girl - is she really worth it? Or am I totally missing the point?

              Game and the red pill are both based on evolutionary psychology. It's not about a particular girl or gaining her attention, it's about understanding reality and hedging your bets.

              Exhibit beta attributes in front of any woman and see how long it'll last.

              How any of this applies to the gay community- I've got no clue.

              I recommend giving this a read: http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2012/11/06/people-are-people/

              [–][deleted] 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

              I really would like to do some research about gay couples.

              I've followed real close a few 'divorces' where none of the parts asked for anything but their fair share of the deal.

              IDK. Maybe this kind of drama will be seen within the gay community as gay marriage laws becomes more widespread.

              Thanks for the link - it's an interesting take on the matter.

              [–]pk_atheist[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

              For the record, I think discussion about the sexual market for men should include gay men as well, but understand that the focus on gay men is significantly different because the psychological factors in play. The discussion is welcome, for sure, but don't be surprised if we're completely clueless on the topic.

              [–]squarehouse -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

              The red pill is primarily about the feminine imperative. But I think gay relationships, both short-term and long-term, really gives you a sense of how different women are. Gays have to deal with bullshit, just like anyone else, but I doubt you see things like hypergamy...are gay guys really marrying up? My opinion: Gay guys aren't actually fundamentally all that different than straight guys, and gay guys literally are looking for personal compatibility, affection, the cure to loneliness, and great sex. In many ways, you're lucky, because women will drive you crazy if you let them.

              [–]TRP Vanguardlegendofpasta 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Exhibit beta attributes in front of any woman and see how long it'll last.

              Answer: until an alpha shows some attention, or the beta vibe just pushes her away

              [–]shitakefunshrooms -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

              jack donovan is gay, and he's probably one of the most prolific red pill guys out there

              [–]tyciol -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Preferring men doesn't mean you're not welcome to understand the issues heterosexual men face bro ;) Plus there does tend to be overlap in a lot of issues, and conceptual similarities.

              I mean... homosexuality has game theory too. It's just probably a little bit less complicated in some areas while being more complex in others.

              [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

              [removed]

                [–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

                [removed]

                  [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

                  [removed]

                    [–]squarehouse 1ポイント2ポイント  (10子コメント)

                    One thing we should be careful of, in my opinion, is distinguishing between feminism and the feminine imperative. Feminism is a relatively new social and political movement; the feminine imperative is as old as time.

                    The idea that sex should only exist in a committed relationship doesn't come from feminism, it comes from the feminine imperative.

                    The glorification of single mothers as heroes, and not as women merely struggling to fulfill their responsibilities doesn't come from feminism, it comes from the feminine imperative.

                    When I think about the feminine imperative and it's influence on society, I think of shows like Oprah and The View (and Dr. Phil). These shows aren't really feminist, because feminism is really about certain social and political issues, whereas the feminine imperative defines an entire point of view.

                    And to be honest, I don't even like Mens Rights. Mens Rights is just inverse feminism, they adopt the feminist ideology and reverse it to favor men. They don't really see the feminine imperative, and that ignorance I think hurts their cause.

                    [–][deleted] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (5子コメント)

                    The hatred of "game" and places like /r/seduction stems from a fear of control being shifted. Anything that suggest a man can choose who he wants to have sex with and under what terms is seen as evil. I thought it was funny when people started saying things like /r/seduction is a form a manipulation and that somehow the women that choose to sleep with guys were doing so against their own conscious will.

                    [–]kencabbit 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    Anything that suggest a man can choose who he wants to have sex with and under what terms is seen as evil.

                    Yeah, I'm sorry but this isn't true. I just surfed here and I have no animosity for people who want to "game" their interactions with women, but as somebody who has never been a player, so to speak, I can tell you that this is absolutely not the sole source of animosity toward this kind of stuff.

                    You talk like you have to "game" in order to "choose" your sexual partners, which to me is somewhat obvious bullshit.

                    A lot of the hatred of "game" probably comes from misunderstanding. I prefer to relate honestly with my romantic partners, as do many people, and many will consider treating those relationships as a game to be an endeavor in dishonesty.

                    edit: I won't be engaging in discussion about this, and won't be replying and creating a comment thread here. I just wanted to call bullshit on this one and move on. Take it or leave it.

                    [–]tyciol -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    You talk like you have to "game" in order to "choose" your sexual partners, which to me is somewhat obvious bullshit.

                    Is it possible that other means of choosing sexual partners are things you don't class under game, but which are things others might class under game?

                    Can you give examples of alternatives to seeking partners you say are non-game?

                    [–]shitakefunshrooms 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

                    People focus too much on getting mainstream acceptance. In your post you identify perfectly whats wrong with MSM (jezebel et al being the worst offenders) but the reality is it does not matter. What people bitch about and what they respond to, will always be different.

                    Don't look to be loved, look to be lusted. Care about your own shit first and foremost, help who you want and leave who you don't.

                    I'm not really writing this to you, but to all the other men who spend so much countless hours worrying about the unfairness rather than acknowledging it and moving on.

                    A key part of this is intense self-reliance and a HEAT like mentality to support and affection (In the film heat Deniro says never have anything in your life you can't walk out on in 30 seconds flat when the heat comes round the corner. To a less intense extent, it's extremely apt).

                    If you can be on your own and go for things from a position of strength paradoxically more and more people flock to you. Whereas most of the nice needy guys who really require that kind of support, care and affection will turn off every woman they even try to approach.

                    This sort of changes depending on how feminised the environment is that you're living in.

                    [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

                    [deleted]

                      [–][deleted] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      First time in here. Tryin to get a feel for the area. Sounds like it's along my line of thinking.