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Confirmed: PS4 Pro does NOT support 4K Blu-ray 😢 #PlayStationMeeting (twitter.com)

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[–]Loud_Stick 150ポイント151ポイント  (31子コメント)

so whats it even going to play at 4k? netflix?

[–]bandola 51ポイント52ポイント  (3子コメント)

I guess Sony will sell/rent 4K movies through video-on-demand on the PS4 Pro.

[–]m00nh34d 29ポイント30ポイント  (12子コメント)

Nothing if you've got shitty internet... (oh, maybe games...)

[–]animeman59 [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

Upscaled 4K. Not actually rendered 4K.

[–]copypaste_93 [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

What's the point of upscaling again?

[–]animeman59 [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

Games would be rendered at a lower resolution (ex. 1080p), and then upscaled to display at a 4K screen.

Think about a normal DVD being played on a Bluray player, and then being outputted onto a 1080p TV. The actual resolution of the DVD would be 480p, but it's being played with an upscaled image to match the TV.

[–]copypaste_93 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

sure. But it dosen't look any better. does it ?

[–]Murrabbit [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well sometimes they can do things to make it look more blurry rather than more pixely? That's kind of a feature, right? Kind of?

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    [–]malufor [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    As far as i know it's not a simple upscaling but a mix between AA and different renderimes. The first frame helps to improve the second frame. This way it should look a lot like native 4k. It's pretty clever actually.

    Of course it won't reach the quality of native 4k.

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        [–]CakeBandit [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

        maybe games...)

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lfiTebewnc

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          [–]Itsweird [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

          Are regular blu rays large enough to hold 4K assets? I guess thats not really an issue since it seems its only going to upscale 1080p quality games.

          [–]ZyreHD 6ポイント7ポイント  (8子コメント)

          Every website that supports 4K. YouTube, Netflix etc. Digital content.

          [–]bat03 78ポイント79ポイント  (3子コメント)

          4k TVs already support those apps

          [–]Hellicus [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

          Yup, and I've yet to see a 4K TV with no "smart" apps.

          [–]Moath [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

          Just an FYI, from what I've experienced so far, the YouTube app on set top boxes, TVS and consoles don't play 4K content.

          [–]fiduke [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          It depends if you have the right hardware. I believe the first ones to include it were only released a year ago.

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            [–]broken_towel [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            Ahah 4k netflix? You want to watch an episode of something before you hit your data cap? But for real, what's the point of this new ps4?

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              [–]crazydave33 99ポイント100ポイント  (36子コメント)

              Wow holy shit Sony fucked up. MS released a $299 Xbox One S that can play 4K Blu Ray but Sony decides NOT to support that? What the hell? Really bad decision Sony.

              [–]bundle-of-stix 33ポイント34ポイント  (31子コメント)

              If there's a company that has sales numbers on physical bluray stuff, it's Sony.

              They apparently decided the future wasn't in 4K discs.

              [–]crazydave33 7ポイント8ポイント  (23子コメント)

              Well apparently Hollywood and MS think the future is with 4K Blu Ray... Why else would MS include that in the Xbox One S if there wasn't a future? MS managed to make a $299 with 4K Blu Ray. Ps4 Pro is $399 no 4K Blu Ray. Like come on that just stupid thinking on Sony's part. It's not like Sony was unsure of the Xbox One S specs....

              [–]bundle-of-stix 12ポイント13ポイント  (7子コメント)

              In all fairness, ms also thought Kinect and IR blasters were the future and hitched their cart to people using the console to watch cable tv.

              They haven't really been very forward thinking this gen.

              [–]carbonat38 [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

              physical media is dead. blu ray only reaches less than 1/3 of dvds during their peak

              http://i.imgur.com/yc9STin.png?1

              [–]Bigbodypresence [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

              Then when did Sony only put in 1TB of storage if they think Physical media is dead but MS who don't think it is put in 2TB?

              [–]Sputniki [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              Because everyone knows the primary sources of digital video content are Netflix and YouTube which don't require hard disk space. They are by far the most popular. 4KBR would be nice but the majority of the market has no need for it because for most of us physical media is dead. Sony knows this better than MS does because it is a major Hollywood studio.

              [–]Why_the_hate_ [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              That's because there are probably a lot of cheap videos that don't go to bluray. All big releases go to bluray.

              [–]CrackedSash [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              I wouldn't be surprised if 4k Blurays turn out to be the last generation of mainstream physical video media.

              There will probably be other niche formats developed, but they're going to be a niche format for professionals and enthusiats.

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                [–]carbonat38 5ポイント6ポイント  (14子コメント)

                Blu ray never took of and DVD is still outselling them 2:1

                if you look at the blu ray with a very slow growth after its release, despite no vod service and ENOURMOUS difference in image quality. Blu ray is even beyond its peak in 2013.

                4k blu ray will grow even slower. little difference, faster iternet, better compression etc.

                [–]darthfodder [スコア非表示]  (11子コメント)

                People as a whole are neanderthals. VHS -> DVD "Oh look, it's on a disc, so it's different." DVD->BluRay "Both of the players play discs, one is more expensive with more expensive discs. Why the hell would I pay more?" This reality of stupidity makes me want to cry.

                [–]morphinedreams [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                Most of the really wealthy countries have strong internet connections. Home theater isn't cheap, and the TV that supports it + the player + the discs and probably an audio setup that isn't terribly cheap either. Some headphones and a laptop? you already had the laptop so you only need the headphones.

                I think a lot of consumers in the U.S. don't realise how few people in other places can afford the masses of equipment you guys get. Just being in American means you have access to relatively cheaper electronics. Some of us find it cheaper to just buy from the U.S. and ship over, because we still save considerable sums of money after the currency conversion and shipping costs. Even for bulky items like TV's and other AV equipment.

                [–]darthfodder [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                I'll admit, I didn't think about the numbers being worldwide and not just the US. Judging by the numbers here http://www.the-numbers.com/weekly-dvd-sales-chart , US sales of BluRay are higher than DVD sales. That said, I'm still surprised that DVD sales are so high in the US.

                I will say that claiming that you need an audio setup to enjoy the difference between DVD and BluRay is silly. Also, any TV made in at least the last 6-8 years will be HD, and so will be adequate to notice the gigantic difference.

                I still think it's largely a perception problem. IMO, the jump from DVD->BluRay is bigger than the jump from VHS->DVD. But because they're both on a disc, a large proportion of people don't realize that.

                [–]Kaghuros [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

                It's not idiots going back to DVDs, it's smart consumers switching to digital. The people who could afford to buy BluRays are just getting their hi-def media from the internet instead, whether that's purchase or rental from Google Play, 4k Netflix, or piracy.

                [–]darthfodder [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                Part of it is that, but note that DVDs still outsell BluRays, so it's still a large part people being unwilling to upgrade from DVDs and not really knowing the difference. I don't think that "could afford" is actually a big part of it at this point. BluRay players are cheap, price difference between BluRay and DVD is tiny.

                [–]Vadara [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

                It's not idiots going back to DVDs, it's smart consumers switching to digital.

                No "smart" person buy non-tangible media that looks significantly worse than physical media.

                This entire generation is fucked. People have no appreciation for art anymore. They just download and consume. Those of us who still recognize the superlative qualities of physical media are a dying breed.

                [–]Kaghuros [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

                Digital media on a disc is the exact same as a hash-checked download with FLAC and H.264 lossless video encoding. We're talking bit-for-bit identical.

                [–]Vadara [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

                Most people stream and streaming will always look like trash compared to non-streaming.

                [–]Kaghuros [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                Sure, but you can't just say that art is dead in the digital era just because people have stopped buying as much physical media. Those of us who prefer lossless formats can easily get them online.

                [–]Sputniki [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                There's also the matter of convenience. Just about the most popular meme of 2016 is "Netflix and chill", remember? "4K Blu Ray and chill" just doesn't work as well - think of the practical considerations.

                [–]Why_the_hate_ [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                Truth be told it's because a lot of people just don't realize how much better they look or don't care. Plus I'm sure that Redbox definitely buys more dvds along with Netflix too.

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                    [–]Boreras 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

                    The market has really changed, Blu-Ray has become much more of a niche market nowadays and Sony is betting on that trend continuing. As someone else said, Sony is definitely one of the companies most affected by this through their movie/tv production division, consumer electronics (BR players, TVs, etc) and PlayStation division (they'd have numbers on how often the PS4 is used for Blu-Ray for example). This also reinforces an earlier conclusion, that Sony doesn't really intend to leverage the PlayStation anymore to strengthen other divisions like they did with the PS3.

                    The added costs is probably pretty low, but they concluded it wasn't worth it to consumers to increase the price by 10-20$/€.

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                      [–]megachickabutt 646ポイント647ポイント  (213子コメント)

                      Man, this kills the ENTIRE selling point for people that are already on gaming PC's. No offense Sony, but even my GTX 1080 can't do 4k60, so there is no fucking way I expect a PS4 pro to do native 4k60 on games. But I was still open to the idea of owning a PS4 strictly for UHD 4K Blu Ray Playing, and splitting my content consumption between PC and PS4.

                      No reason for me to even consider PS4 Pro after this disheartening news.

                      [–]c_will 54ポイント55ポイント  (11子コメント)

                      So if the PS4 Pro isn't doing native 4K gaming, and a 4K TV is going to upscale the image from a regular PS4, then what does the Pro offer for 4K that the regular PS4 doesn't?

                      [–]Hazz3r 31ポイント32ポイント  (5子コメント)

                      Native render resolution above 1080p and enhanced visual effects for 1080p render resolutions.

                      [–]kontis 30ポイント31ポイント  (3子コメント)

                      Ironically, with tricks like checkerboard rendering it may render at lower than 1080p and reconstruct something like 3.5K, later upscaled to 4K.

                      Source: Sony's leaked presentation.

                      Rainbow Six Siege's rendering res on PS4 is 960x540 + AA because of this method. It's a really smart trick.

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                        [–]Perkelton 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

                        They could potentially render things like the interface and cutscenes in UHD.

                        [–]Chamca 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        Smite from Hirez has been stated to run at 4k 60fps natively.

                        Additionally, I bet many indie games will take advantage of this

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                          [–]FatalFirecrotch 112ポイント113ポイント  (85子コメント)

                          The Xbox One S has a blu ray player.

                          [–]MrTurleWrangler [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

                          Yup, even if you only want a 4K DVD player the Xbox One S is the cheapest one on the market at the moment as far as I'm aware

                          [–]rightsidedown [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

                          Ya, and that's huge if you're upgrading from a ps3 or 360, and have a new TV. At this point I'm probably going to hold off until there are more solid details on the Scorpio specs. The pro would have been an easy choice if it had UHD.

                          [–]Scops [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                          Yeah, though I was invested in the 360 pretty heavily during the last generation, I've been straight PC so far during this gen. I was looking forward to the PS4 Pro as a UHD player because it seemed like the PS4 had a better library.

                          Now, I'm considering an Xbox One S or holding out for the Scorpio. I perked up when I heard that games bought on the Xbox could be played on Windows. Now, that's starting to turn into a real selling point.

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                              [–]bat03 29ポイント30ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              I feel the same. Was pretty excited for this until now.

                              [–]BaconatedGrapefruit 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

                              I was actually considering making the jump. I have all the major consoles built gaming rig earlier this year. With Microsofts play anywhere initiative I was going to sell my Xbone and Ps4 and buy a Pro to handle 4k in my living room/handle ps4 exclusives.

                              At 500 CAD and no 4k physical media playback... I'm literally better off just buying a 1070 and playing Ps4 exclusives in at the default settings.

                              [–]darkest4 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

                              So much this. Was finally going to get in on this generation and one of the big reasons was because I need a 4k bluray player for my 4k tv anyway so might as well get one that can play some games I can't get on PC. Was planning on getting Neo and several games. Now, I really have no incentive to buy. Ball dropped.

                              They base your marketing around 4k then don't include 4k bluray player and instead talk about 4k streaming? Pretty much every 4k TV out there already has a Netflix app for 4k, smart TV features are par for the course for modern, 4k TVs. I don't get how xbox s can afford to have 4k bluray at $100 less and Pro can't.

                              [–]round_melon [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                              Agreed they dropped the ball on this. The lack of 4K UHD blu ray player took me from a sure fire buy, to now not having any interest at all.

                              [–]madhi19 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                              I have a ps4 and was considering selling it for a upgrade. Now am holding off to see if saner mind will prevail, and to let 4k TV drop. There just not enough content as it is.

                              [–]Strafe_Jog_Jump 20ポイント21ポイント  (15子コメント)

                              GTX 1080 can't do 4k60

                              Actually, if you're clever with settings it can. Mine does just fine. Rarely have to go below medium which still looks gorgeous at 4K in any well-made game anyway.

                              And then there are quite a few games where it manages regardless of settings - Doom, Guild Wars 2 (zergs not counted, as that's heavily CPU bottlenecked), Tomb Raider, Shadow of Mordor..

                              [–]thepoisonman 13ポイント14ポイント  (5子コメント)

                              DOOM is coded with some kind of magic. I get like 65-70 fps on 4k Ultra settings

                              [–]FlukeHawkins [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                              Vulkan and/or a stashed clone of Carmack somewhere?

                              [–]crackfox69 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                              I really don't know how they got that game to look that good and run that well. Probably the most well optimised FPS I have ever played in my life.

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                                [–]magikwizard [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                Forget 4k60 I would love it if consoles could do a constant 1080 60fps on all games before luring people in with 4K.

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                                  [–]spartanawasp 23ポイント24ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                  You could pick up and Xbox One S instead

                                  [–]Heavenfall 4ポイント5ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                  I don't think gaming pc owners were the target audience. I think this is for the top ~10% of xbox/ps owners who want a tiny bit of extra juice in their machines and are fine with paying more.

                                  [–]megachickabutt 10ポイント11ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                  I get that, but Sony has always been a foward thinking company. They are one of the primary reasons why blu ray won the format war. The lack of 4k blu ray on this console baffles me. There is no reason to not include it, especially since the gpu is similar to the silicon as the newer xbox one, has HDMI 2.0 / HDCP 2.2 native, and 4k decoding built in.

                                  [–]silvermember 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  The bluray won because the Bluray alliance spent 400 million convincing Warner Bros to switch.

                                  The lack of 4k while terrible isn't going to be missed by the majority of poeple and thus not warrant an upgrade. It is important to realize that the market is made up of more than enthusiasm.

                                  [–]Tramd [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

                                  I can't be the only one that has no intention of ever buying a movie on a physical disc ever again. It would baffle me that they would spend any amount of time/money on that at all.

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                                      [–]Wh1plash96 10ポイント11ポイント  (34子コメント)

                                      so there is no fucking way I expect a PS4 pro to do native 4k60 on games.

                                      I think it upscales to 4k like Xbox One S, and at that price $399 doing 4k60 natively sounds too true to be good.

                                      [–]InsanityRequiem 27ポイント28ポイント  (24子コメント)

                                      Not even near 60 FPS, maybe 30FPS. When they had three devs on to talk about the Pro, the devs talked a lot about 30 FPS gameplay. Heck, one of them specifically stated that 30 FPS is mandatory for multiplayer games because “it evens the playing field”.

                                      [–]RocketCow 32ポイント33ポイント  (20子コメント)

                                      “it evens the playing field”.

                                      Sounds like Blizzard logic in regards to wider monitors to me.

                                      [–]SgtRootCanal 7ポイント8ポイント  (18子コメント)

                                      You're telling me... just got my new ultrawide monitor and if I want to use it to the fullest in Overwatch, I have to play at a disadvantage, since they crop the top and bottom...

                                      [–]Yablargo 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                      Cmon, you didn't expect that? Yeah you want to give the aspect ratio where >99% of users are at the ideal experience. If you got more POV (and imagine if they did it in a MOBA or RTS, it'd be very significant), it'd be a significant perceived advantage and everyone would 'have' to go to 16:9 -- and honestly the panels on many of them are not awesome for gaming.

                                      [–]Chamca 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                      This was the same argument people had when monitors were moving away from 4:3

                                      [–]SgtRootCanal 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      I have the Acer x34, so I know the panel is fine for gaming lol. League of legends supports 21:9 just fine. You can see a very small bit more of the map, but the disadvantage is you have to move your mouse farther to move the screen if you're not on camera lock, which you shouldn't be using anyways.

                                      This is the same shit that everyone was spewing when 16:9 came out to replace 4:3. All it is doing is increasing FOV natively, without skewing it like an FOV slider does.

                                      I guess we should ban good graphics cards too since running at a higher refresh rate gives an unfair advantage. Lets lock our game to 60fps so make sure everyone is on a level playing ground. Screw anyone who has 144hz monitors.

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                                          [–]zephrin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Yes! I'm so sad they limited the camera distance now.

                                          [–]megachickabutt 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          So that's what they are calling the ubisoft cinematic experience now...

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                                              [–]simsoy 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                              That's why we're going to see 4k @ 30fps likely on these titles. Which then might not even be possible, the game might not actually look better it'll just have an bigger resolution. Why the fuck don't they pump out what they can of 1080p while giving us 60fps? That's all people really want.

                                              [–]animeman59 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                              Pretty much my main interest was for 4K bluray playback. Maybe I could now finally retire my PS3 as my main media machine. Playing PS exclusives and maybe PSVR was just nice extras to look forward to.

                                              Now, I don't see a real reason to get a PS4 Pro.

                                              [–]willmoreGG 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                              PS4 pro to do native 4k60 on games

                                              Its most likely going to be upscaled from 1080p 60fps.

                                              EDIT : YOU CANT DOWNVOTE THE TRUTH!

                                              [–]Tramd [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                              They would sell me on 1080p 60fps alone.

                                              [–]Ree81 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                              Heyyy don't worry, you have 4K Netflix.... it's....... it's just as good. snort

                                              [–]FunnyHunnyBunny 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                              Your post is a bit dramatic. Gtx 1080 can most certainly do 4k60.. . Just not at super high graphic detail. Settings would most likely need to be at medium. The main selling point for console games has never been the top line graphics. It has been the exclusive games you can't get on anywhere else. Sony has lots of those.

                                              [–]QuadrangularNipples [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                              Honestly putting it at medium would be an overreaction. All but a small handful will run at high or max less MSAA

                                              [–]RadiantSun 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                              Yeah, I was thinking of getting one for 4K bluray because I've been getting interested in 4K movies recently. I now have a pretty decent home theater setup but running blurays on PC is the biggest pain in the ass I have faced in literally years. I was considering the rumoured PS4 for Bloodborne, Destiny and 4K bluray... Guess I'll just have to buy a standalone player now :/

                                              [–]SonicFlash01 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                              Yeah I'm not 100% sure where the asterisk is in their claims. I didn't get to watch the conference, but where the loophole? They said native, so they have to make their tiny box at a $400 USD pricepoint make 4K images at around 30FPS.

                                              [–]Sputniki [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                              It still does upscaled 4K though. As everyone expected native 4K is too much for even a top PC to handle so this is no surprise. Having the upscaling capability still makes the PS4 Pro pretty unique IMO

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                                                [–]MyEagerBeaver 225ポイント226ポイント  (95子コメント)

                                                And the Xbox One S does? I've no reason to upgrade my PS4. Who's this console for?

                                                [–]Clutch_ 233ポイント234ポイント  (17子コメント)

                                                Yup, the $299 Xbox One S has it and the $399 PS4 Pro does not. Pretty ridiculous...

                                                [–]hio__State 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                Late console adopters that haven't bought one yet...

                                                [–]Chawanmushi02 37ポイント38ポイント  (25子コメント)

                                                Yes, this console is for people who want's the best performance on consoles.

                                                This is weird, the landscape is at a complete reversal.

                                                The PS3 launched more expensive, has blu ray, and had a multimedia focus. The 360 does the opposite.

                                                Now it's completely the other way around.

                                                The Xbox One S will be one of the most feature rich 4K Bluray player at an extremely enticing price.

                                                That being said, the 399 Pro clocks the 399 2TB S right down to the neck, you can feel underwhelmed by the conference (which I am), but the price is real and it's the thing to take home with.

                                                Edit: It also blows my mind on how it has a 4k netflix app but NOT 4k bluray.

                                                [–]MyEagerBeaver 10ポイント11ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                You're right about the price. They nailed it with that. For me, I'm happy with my PS4 console.

                                                The people who care about HDR, and all that good stuff spoken about at this conference, are already playing on PC though.

                                                [–]Chawanmushi02 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                You also have to take in mind that the base PS4 will be used as the "bottleneck" and the pro versions will add more sparkles to it.

                                                Sony was very careful around the "not pissing off that 40 million" since neo rumors started to circulate.

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                                                  [–]destroyman1337 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                  Imagine, if the Xbox One S has this feature, then the Scorpio will be an even better deal compared to the PS4 Pro...

                                                  [–]TheBigBruce 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                  Low-res video encoding is different. You can have 4K at a certain bitrate, and you won't be able to tell the difference between 1080p at the same bitrate (10 to 15 Mbps-ish).

                                                  Blu-ray video encoding is virtually uncompressed, but the 4K bitrate for BR is already set in the 80 to 128Mbps range. You're talking about footage of such a quality that it would eat a sizable chunk of your entire monthly cap (Greater than 100Mbps encodes) in a single download.

                                                  4K Netflix takes no effort or hardware, whereas actual 4K BR requires some hardware.

                                                  [–]reymt 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                  virtually uncompressed

                                                  Not even close, uncompressed video is pretty much unfeasible at this point. 4K without compression at 24fps would be like 600mb/s.

                                                  EDIT: Removed part of my post, currently we are about 16MB per second. So yeah, super unfeasible.

                                                  [–]ThinkBeforeYouTalk 0ポイント1ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                                  To your edit: to me it makes a lot more sense to have 4K Netflix while still not having a 4K blu ray player. I'm sure they ran the numbers and saw that digital is the bigger deal. I wonder how much actual demand there is for 4K blu Ray.

                                                  [–]DreadPixel 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                  Considering the cancer that is data caps in the US ISP market I imagine it higher than you'd think, plus let's not forget Netflix has a limit library very much so in some countries.

                                                  [–]ToughActinInaction [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                                                  Do you have a 4k TV that doesn't already have 4k Netflix? 4k Blu Ray is a much higher bitrate than streaming 4k, so that makes sense as a feature, but Netflix is just useless for most 4k TVs since they already have it.

                                                  [–]ThinkBeforeYouTalk [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                  Yeah I guess most 4k TVs would have a built in netflix app. Although I don't think this is a case of one over the other anyway as much as it is a case of "we can make it cheaper by not having more expensive hardware in it". Especially if their metrics say it doesn't get much use outside of games.

                                                  [–]Zero-Tau [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                  I think there's more demand for 4K Blu-ray than for a 4K Netflix player -- only because every single 4K TV I've seen to date has been smart, meaning it either ships with Netflix built in or lets you install it from a menu. 4K TVs can overwhelmingly already stream Netflix, making the feature on an external device entirely or nearly useless.

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                                                      [–]PorchettaM 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                      People who don't own a PS4 already.

                                                      [–]TheJoshider10 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                      In which case they can still buy the cheaper model for an even better price when this comes out.

                                                      [–]Teath123 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                      Well.. I don't own a PS4 and this a no brainer for me. £80 more for a lot of extras.

                                                      [–]AwesomeOnsum [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                                                      I'm in the same boat. I was going to buy the slim until I heard the Pro pricing and release date. I expected it to either be cost-prohibitive or a ways off. I can wait until November and the $100 is a fair price for the extras.

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                                                        [–]FlatlineMonday 10ポイント11ポイント  (37子コメント)

                                                        Me, the primarily PC Gaming consumer that doesn't have a PS4 but wants one to play Persona 5 and The Last Guardian and Ni No Kuni 2

                                                        That's a small demographic.

                                                        [–]NicCageOrGTFO 71ポイント72ポイント  (16子コメント)

                                                        Get a normal PS4. Save money.

                                                        [–]FlatlineMonday 7ポイント8ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                                        Thankfully I can see how The Last Guardian performs on current PS4 hardware before the Pro is released.

                                                        As much as I loved Shadow of the Colossus, the framerate dips at certain spots bothered me. I'll get the Pro if it performs better.

                                                        [–]manutd19 7ポイント8ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                        You're getting a console because of one game? Almost all games will run fine on the standard Ps4, there's little to no reason to shell out the extra money for a Ps4 pro unless you have a 4ktv.

                                                        [–]eoinster 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        I doubt he's getting it just for one game, the new console holds the promise of better performance in future exclusives like Spider-Man and The Last of Us 2.

                                                        [–]FlatlineMonday 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                        An increase in framerate is reason enough for me.

                                                        [–]manutd19 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                        That's not been confirmed. From the looks of things all games seem to run at 30fps

                                                        [–]YpsilonYpsilon 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                        The difference is only 100 USD and you should get better framerates if not playing in 4K.

                                                        [–]AwesomeOnsum [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                        The extra 500 gigs of storage also helps make the difference less.

                                                        [–]Derpyboom 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        Every game that releases on september has to support PS4Pro if i remember correctly,

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                                                          [–]randomaccount178 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                          Technically Persona 5 is being released on the PS3 I believe, so if you have that...

                                                          [–]GambitsEnd 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                          You can spend at least $100 less and just get the Slim to play those games.

                                                          [–]ngwoo 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                          I'm probably going to get the Slim after the first price drop to catch up on all the PS4 games I missed. I don't have a TV so all gaming happens on my computer monitor. That means I need something small to fit on the desk, and the Slim is perfect.

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                                                            [–]moogable [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                                                            It's pretty much the only reason I'm getting a PS4. I just want to get my JRPG on and enjoy a couple of exclusives beyond that. There's literally several of us!

                                                            [–]openzeus 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            Ni No Kuni 2

                                                            Hnnnng. I hope PS4 games come to PS Now eventually. I loved NNK but not enough to buy a PS4 to play the sequel.

                                                            [–]YpsilonYpsilon 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            That's me. I am going to buy Neo and some 10 games this console generation. I saw that many exclusives are struggling to maintain 30 fps on standard PS4 so I am going for Pro.

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                                                              [–]y1i 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              Who's this console for?

                                                              My guess would be PSVR. Although we don't really know much about that, so an in-depth comparison between PS4 VR and PS Pro VR should be interesting.

                                                              [–]xrmrct45 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              People who bought the 32X. I say this as someone who owns a PS4 and was excited about it for the slight performance boost and uhd blu ray

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                                                                [–]datesboy 42ポイント43ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                My 4K TV already has 4K Netflix and YouTube. This really seems like a misstep. I was looking forward to this simply because I wanted a 4K Blu-Ray player and I foolishly assumed this would have one since the Xbox One S has one.

                                                                [–]JesusChristsDog 82ポイント83ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                that doesn't make sense and gives the Xbox One S a big advantage right out of the gate. I need a better source than a tweet from "StuffTV"

                                                                [–]SuperObviousShill 7ポイント8ポイント  (17子コメント)

                                                                Wait what is the Pro, is this the Neo, or is the Neo something different?

                                                                [–]TildenJack 14ポイント15ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                                                It's the official name for the Neo.

                                                                [–]SuperObviousShill 5ポイント6ポイント  (14子コメント)

                                                                Seems like the abbreviation (PS4P) could cause them some confusion they don't want. Also seriously? That's pretty much the only point in buying one.

                                                                If I wanted better framerates at 1080p I'd play it on PC, which is what I normally due anyway.

                                                                Man this whole generation with its New 3DSs and so on makes me regret buying these consoles. You get one, then its all "oh hey, time to buy a new one!".

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                                                                  [–]as-wichita-falls 21ポイント22ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                                                  Weird decision. But then again, Sony's got all the sales numbers you need to make an evaluation on something like this. Maybe they're banking in Blu-ray dying out and going heavy on the digital side within a couple years.

                                                                  [–]ligeti 10ポイント11ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                                  It might not be that UHD Blu-Ray is dying out per se, but that their projected adoption rates of the format (especially while true 4k TVs are still very expensive) don't give Sony much reason to include a UHD Blu-Ray player at this iteration. Especially since they seem to be set on keeping the Pro competitively priced against whatever the Scorpio turns out to be. I don't doubt that Sony will just release a new, UHD BR drive-included version of the Pro down the line when that makes more sense to do. Or even an external UHD BR reader in the interim.

                                                                  [–]Menzlo 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                  Right, but people buy consoles with an intent to keep them for a few years. If you're in the market now for a console, you might be thinking you don't want to go out and buy a 4k blu-ray player just a couple years from now.

                                                                  [–]najowhit [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                                  I mean, the PS4 came out less than 3 years ago and we're all in a thread talking about the next iteration so it's not that out of the question.

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                                                                    [–]minizanz 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                    the ps4 already supported BDXL, it makes no sense why they would not support it as one of the few changes in polaris that they could use is h265 support in the hardware decoder.

                                                                    [–]bat03 38ポイント39ポイント  (19子コメント)

                                                                    Dumb decision. Would have easily paid $450 if it had 4k Blu-ray. Don't see much point in getting it now and probably wait for ps5 or Scorpio.

                                                                    [–]PugSwagMaster 28ポイント29ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                                                    Why not get a Xbox one s?

                                                                    [–]bandola 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                    I'm not him but I won't buy a One S knowing that Scorpio will be out a year from now.

                                                                    edit: "the Scorpion"? that's not what it's called.

                                                                    [–]bat03 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                    Got PC and buy ps4 for exclusives.

                                                                    [–]theintention 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                    Did that this weekend. Had a PS4, got my gaming PC. No ragrets.

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                                                                      [–]RatSnakeRabbitSnake 2ポイント3ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                                                      I don't know the reasoning behind it, but this is a bit disappointing. Personally I'm not that into the 4K thing. I have a 4K TV and a some 4K content because it wasn't much more than the alternatives, but it's not that big a deal. I wonder what Sony is trying to do with all of this. My guess is that they wanted MS to overshoot while they offer an affordable alternative.

                                                                      [–]bat03 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                      I just don't understand why they are pushing 4k and talking about 4k Netflix and YouTube when streaming 4k is unfeasibleable for so many people. Plus 4k TVs already come with those apps. The Blu-ray would have actually made the upgrade a much easier sell.

                                                                      [–]dee_c 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                      Isnt an affordable alternative the XB1S at the moment? Im under the impression that Microsoft is going to try and blow the doors off with the Scorpio and focus on frames, pixels, resolution blah blah with high price tag.

                                                                      The PS4 Pro cant compare with that I think?

                                                                      [–]RatSnakeRabbitSnake 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                      I think developers are going to resist the Scorpio rather than embrace it, at best doing the minimum required of them. The XB1S is really just a normal mid gen revision, albeit a rather nice one. I think when the Scorpio does come out, it's going to fail hard on the consumer end in part because it will cost too much. The Pro will be somewhat niche but it won't take as much for Sony to get it out there and support it, and I bet it outsells the Scorpio 2:1.

                                                                      [–]dee_c 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                      I find that hard to believe for developers. The way I'm envisioning it, would be like developing a game for PC where consumers have the graphic sliders and options to get the best experience they can by customizing.

                                                                      The difference would be the developers would do that themselves depending on if you are on Scorpio or XB1.

                                                                      I agree that marketing is going to be crazy difficult so I'm interested in how they will approach it, but if Sony doesnt show off the PS5 at E3 next year they will get a tidal wave of press as they are the only fish in that pond.

                                                                      You saw it this year at E3 when Microsoft announced the two systems of the future and all the media jumped on it both positively and negatively because people were absorbing as much info as they could.

                                                                      It will be really fun to see how this all plays out.

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                                                                          [–]stordoff 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                          For people questioning the source, it seems StuffTV were at PlayStation Meeting in person. They presumably asked in person after the stream was over.

                                                                          [–]tbone547 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                          Well the upside to this is that I no longer have to make a decision about upgrading my PS4. Thanks for sparing my wallet sony!

                                                                          [–]Clbull 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                          Doesn't this basically mean that the Xbox One S wins?

                                                                          [–]prinny_gamer 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                          I don't understand why they left this out on what's marketed as specifically an enthusiast machine. This is more sounding like they realized that PSVR looked bad on the regular PS4, and they needed something to improve the looks of it.

                                                                          [–]Robag4Life 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                          PS has remained strong because the brand has always delivered stunning exclusive games. Sony have fucked up literally everything else, by positioning stuff as a delivery system for their own content, at the expense of usability. And that's what's happening here.

                                                                          I've always thought this machine exists primarily as a way to push Sony's 4k movie streaming. It is potentially an incredibly lucrative business (zero investment and tiny margin), but, just as in gaming, streaming services still have some way to go to hit the quality ceiling at 1080p.

                                                                          HDR in particular looks an almost complete waste of time for the majority of usage-cases (black-out rooms, anyone?).... and 4k is far more important to gaming than movies (because movies aren't prone to aliasing or other artefacts of resolution)... Sure, you can see a clear difference in a still frame, but when it's all moving, it disappears quickly.

                                                                          Even if you disagree that it's borderline-niche-interest tech, it absolutely only is justifiable if we're talking bit-rates that the majority of connections just can't handle.

                                                                          So yeah. They blew their chance in the MP3 market by trying to copy the Ipod business model... they have blown their latest chance in the smartphone market by marketing on useless/downright falacious 'hi-def' audio features....

                                                                          Beyond making VR a realistic proposition, I can't see how this is any different. And this generation of VR headset and software is hardly setting the world alight. I find it hard to imagine that we are more than a 18 months away from a generational leap.

                                                                          [–]BenjaminTalam [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                                          Why the hell would I get a 4k device if it can't do everything in 4k? Blu-Ray should be the FIRST thing you include with such a device.

                                                                          This honestly just seems like a console meant to prey on naive customers who heard billy wanted a PS4 for christmas. It has to be the latest PS4 or he will throw such a fit. It's called the 4k. Must be worth it, 4K means 4000 right? So it's like the PS4 times a thousand?

                                                                          [–]The_Reaps [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                                          A less powerful, cheaper console from Microsoft will support 4k blu-ray, but Sony, who is part of the blu-ray disc association, who made a console that made the blu-ray format dominant won't include it on their 4k-gaming console?

                                                                          That's like building a mansion out of gold, but the door to get in is a sewer tunnel.

                                                                          [–]xjayroox 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                          What the fuck is the point of this console again?

                                                                          No 4k Blu-Rays, no native 4k processing just upscaling

                                                                          Am I missing something here?

                                                                          [–]Laz1985 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                          Long, Long time PlayStation owner (going back to 1997) I may end up getting Xbox One S instead now. I'm very disappointed in Sony seems like a stupid thing to leave out.

                                                                          [–]Omeutnx 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                          Why wouldn't they include this? Would it even necessitate additional hardware with all the 4k stuff already included with the PS4 Pro?

                                                                          [–]TheHeroicOnion [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                                          This is fucking dumb. Imagine the data usage for constant 4K streaming? Even with unlimated data, my rural internet would never stream 4K properly. Fuck this. Sony and Microsoft only actually try when they're losing. Sony's been more successful than Xbox this gen so they're slacking off, meanwhile Microsoft is giving everyone what they want, backwards compatibility, 4K blu ray, a new console next year that's crazy powerful and more.

                                                                          [–]EgoPhoenix [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

                                                                          I don't understand this decision.

                                                                          Wasn't Xbox trying to push HD dvd and Sony Blu-ray back in the day? Now, Sony doesn't care about 4k blu-ray (even though they make the tv's that support it) while XboneS does....

                                                                          Seems to me like Sony is either starting to write off blu-ray or they have no idea what they're doing? Anyone have any insights why they're doing this?

                                                                          [–]morphinedreams [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                                                                          It was a format war. Now that HD-DVD is dead Sony can soak up the royalties from blu-ray use. Sony no longer needs to care about the format, it's already beat HD-DVD. I suspect microsoft was only backing HD-DVD because it would hurt Sony more to do so.

                                                                          [–]EgoPhoenix [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                                                                          Here's the thing: what better way to increase sales of their own 4K tv's than to couple it with their own 4k bluray player/console? Maybe they did it to drive down cost? I don't know anymore.

                                                                          [–]morphinedreams [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                                          The market for televisions is quite a bit larger than for game consoles, and they probably found that such a bundle wouldn't have increased revenue significantly enough. I.E nobody's going to buy a new TV just because they kind of want to get the new PS4. You're really only marketing to people shopping for new TV's AND gamers, which is probably a pretty small market.

                                                                          [–]Cymen90 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                                          ....wait, what is the point then?

                                                                          [–]EcksTeaSea 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                          Why would Sony even think this is a good idea? If it meant raising the price a bit, I'd gladly pay.

                                                                          [–]fox112 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                          They've probably done all the math that this is the most profitable route to go. I'm sure we're the minority in the fact that we even know what this is.

                                                                          [–]ptd163 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                          Well that kind of makes this whole thing an exercise in futility. The Xbox One S has UHD Blu-ray support and now Microsoft will definitely make sure Scorpio has UHD Blu-ray support as well.

                                                                          RIP the PS4. You came out of the gate strong Sony, but you got complacent and now you will suffer as Microsoft has suffered.

                                                                          [–]round_melon 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                          This is an absolute deal breaker for me. I would definitely consider myself part of the target demographic for the PS4 Pro but the lack of UHD 4K Blu ray player basically makes the Pro useless to me. I'll just stick with the console I already own.

                                                                          Definitely bummed by this news as I at least expected the Pro to attempt to compete against the new Xbox.

                                                                          [–]satysin [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                                                                          Well that is fucking insane. Who the hell at Sony thought "I know lets make a 4K games console but we won't let it play our awesome new 4K Blu-ray movies, that would be stupid as its a games console".

                                                                          Sigh.

                                                                          [–]NotSoConcerned [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                                                                          I actually think it was a smart move not to include this as they didn't really need it anyway. People are complaining but lets be honest that 4k is still very niche and you won't have massive droves of people clamoring to upgrade just to have everything in 4k.

                                                                          Sony is promising a better gaming experience which will sit well with a majority of people. They also are releasing this well ahead of Scorpio. Some think they made a bad move but really now the pressure is on MS. Their "new console" will more than likely be at least $100 more than the PS4 Pro. If not they could end up taking some losses which Sony did well back in the PS3 days.

                                                                          While MS will go on to promote this as the "most powerful system". Sony will be looking to use every single upgrade/feature to its fullest potential. By the time Scorpio comes out PS4 could be well ahead of it. So even if Scorpio does turn out to be the overall better console. It will more than likely still do worse sell wise. It certainly helps that Sony are really billing this as a gaming console and not a media console. They know their niche and understand that their main thing is gaming. All the other stuff is just fluff.

                                                                          [–]kidstandoutII [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                                          sony started multy-media consoles long before xbox did. the entire reason the ps3 sold well one year late to the market was because it also had blu-ray.

                                                                          to literally repeat the exact same scenario but on the opposite side of the field is a massive dropping of the ball. it's especially nonsensical since their tv division, which still isn't in the black, could have used a bump by being bundled with a 4k player to go along with 4k tv's.

                                                                          [–]snookums [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                                          So, I can either buy a 4k bluray player for $300 on Amazon, or I can buy the XBox One S for the same cost and get 4k blurays along with games. That's the situation. Because I'm a major Sony fanboy, and I really think this fucking sucks. Guess I'm going to buy an XBox One S.

                                                                          [–]IamPetard [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                                          I'm not sure whats the big deal, bluray discs are dying, there's less sales every year while digital media grows like crazy, as is internet availability and speed. Pretty sure Sony experts think that the bluray demographic is not as important as the gaming one who want a stronger console

                                                                          [–]Diknak [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                                          Yeah, they don't want to cannibalize their $200 4k blu ray players. For the player right?

                                                                          [–]Aeqvitas [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                                                                          It's not even really a 4k console, its only upscaling. 4k streaming not only takes way more bandwidth than most have, it is also only on par with 1080p on a disc.

                                                                          People rightfully are very underwhelmed.

                                                                          4theplayers

                                                                          [–]CakeBandit [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                                          I find it fairly telling that people are most upset that their game device doesn't support hi def Movies.

                                                                          [–]Vurondotron 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                          I don't mean to offend anyone and speak against Sony but that's ridiculous in my opinion they should of done better. I don't understand what's going on with Sony they should know better. If the Xbox One S which is weaker then the PS4 Pro has features of HDR gaming, HDR videos, 4K support (Movies & streaming content) and upscaling to 4K. Then why does the PS4 Pro doesn't have these features and the Slim? --- That's okay Sony I'll get the Slim but not the Pro.

                                                                          [–]Awesomeade 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                          Shit, the expectation of this feature was the only thing that had me looking forward to this thing.

                                                                          Without also getting a 4K blu-ray player, I no longer have sufficient justification to buy my Uncharted/MLB the Show machine.

                                                                          [–]StormtrooperLuigi [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                                          Then what's the point?

                                                                          [–]devinup [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                                          I don't have a next gen console. A 4k blu ray would give me a reason to get one if I get a 4k TV. Now if I get one, I guess it'll be the new XBox.

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