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[–]Drapetomania 25 points26 points27 points  (22 children)
This is one reason I'm proud to be an American. It's popular by losers on the internet to love Canada and hate America, (despite strangely not wanting to move there, something about the weather?)...I hate to say it, but I think that Americans are simply a stronger, less fearful people than Canadians, who having a very subdued presence on the world stage probably gives them a sort of innate fearfulness of life.
[–]MapleLeafEagle 18 points19 points20 points  (15 children)
I'm a dual citizen (US and Canada) and I'd like to say its a great deal more complicated than that. First of all, Canada has no law of constitutional provision protecting the right to keep and bear arms. The Supreme Court in Canada has explicitly stated that Canadians do not have a right to keep and bear arms: "Canadians, unlike Americans, do not have a constitutional right to bear arms." In my opinion, all governments trend toward arms confiscation unless they are explicitly prohibited from doing so. It isn't that Canadians, or any other western nation, are more fearful of guns. Every country has a large population of anti-gunners, but only in America is the right defended against their efforts.
but I think that Americans are simply a stronger, less fearful people than Canadians
Bullshit. Many of the toughest most fearless sons of bitches I have ever met are Canadian.
who having a very subdued presence on the world stage
You need to learn more history. Canada gets involved in basically every major conflict that the UK and the rest of the commonwealth get involved in. Canada fought in both World Wars, the Korean War, and Afghanistan. Canadians stormed a beach a Normandy. Of course they aren't as involved as the US because they only have 1/10th the population.
I will add that because there isn't a tradition of a right to keep and bear arms in Canada, there isn't a huge culture of keeping and bearing arms. In the US, the right is fought for and defended specifically because we have the 2nd amendment. Such a right was never acknowledged in Canada, and so a huge gun defending culture never took root. They do not historically have the right, so they don't believe the right exists. Also, in general they are more trusting of their government and their police forces (which is a bit naive, but not unique to Canada).
Now don't get me wrong, Canadian firearm laws are shit. I believe the right to keep and bear arms is universal and inalienable. But I don't think for one second that Canadian gun laws are shit because Canadians are simply timid and afraid.
[–]Drapetomania 16 points17 points18 points  (4 children)
In most of the rest of the west guns were taken away at the applause of the population. Not so in America.
[–]MapleLeafEagle 5 points6 points7 points  (1 child)
Like I said:
In the US, the right is fought for and defended specifically because we have the 2nd amendment.
[–]Drapetomania 10 points11 points12 points  (0 children)
Yes, I know that. I meant to say that we still have more pro-gun people than anywhere else. If the entire country was full of Piers Morgans then they'd have removed it by now.
[–]bllasae 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
Thank God for that. Look at how many rights they lost since then because the government can do whatever they want. Other countries' populations don't realize that.
[–]KaseyKasem 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
Exactly. I imagine we'd have hate speech laws and all that by now, too.
[–]Autorotator 16 points17 points18 points  (7 children)
My right to arms doesn't exist because I'm governed by a law that says it is so. My right to arms is inherent in my right to self-defense, which is an intrinsic characteristic of every sentient being. Canadians have every right to self-defense and bearing arms as any American. They choose to not enforce it upon the government.
Rights aren't top-down. They are bottom-up. They are a part of the people, not the government.
[–]MapleLeafEagle 6 points7 points8 points  (1 child)
I try to be careful with my language, and as I said in my first comment:
First of all, Canada has no law of constitutional provision protecting the right to keep and bear arms.
I placed the emphasis on protecting. The right to keep and bear arms is a universal, inalienable human right. The 2nd amendment of the US Constitution protects that right and acknowledges it as already existing. However, the Canadian government does not believe in that right, and as you said, the Canadian people don't enforce it upon their government. Laws don't give rights, but they can protect existing ones.
[–]Autorotator 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
I wasn't arguing with you, I was simply summarizing what I think was your most important point. It does lend evidence to the Canadian philosophy being weak though. The mindset, that is.
I love Canada and Canadians, but I don't want to be Canadian.
[–]wee-tod-did 2 points3 points4 points  (4 children)
sadly, the right to self defense does not specifically include use of firearms. it states you can use appropriate force against force. so a 100 lb woman has to have a fist fight against her 250 lb attacker. anything else is excessive and would have her charged.
[–]Autorotator 1 point2 points3 points  (3 children)
We aren't talking about what a law says. We are talking about what is right. A 100 lb woman in a fist fight with a 250 lb assailant is in a fight for her life and should kill the assailant with any means necessary if that is what she must do to protect her person.
[–]wee-tod-did 2 points3 points4 points  (2 children)
but what the law says and what is right are two vastly different things. and you will get hit hard by the law, even as a victim.
ask the guy in toronto that got arrested for kidnapping when he detained a robbery suspect that had robbed his grocery store multiple times.
[–]bllasae 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Some guy had his house firebombed and when he fired at the attackers he was charged with attempted murder for it. From Niagara somewhere.
[–]Autorotator 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Yeah, as I said before: Love Canada, never want to be a Canadian. I've turned down lucrative contracts in California and NYC because I refuse to live like that, in fear of the government for exercising my natural rights.
[–]whelponry 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
I hope you realize that the fundamental problem in Canada and most other western democratic countries, culturally and constitutionally, is that most people believe the government grants them rights through the constitution and laws rather than having inalienable rights that are enumerated by a constitution and cannot be fundamentally superseded by laws.
Yes, there are a lot of myths about Canada, like everyone being polite (they most certainly are not ALL polite in my experience!) and how things are so free up there (e.g. comedian being fined for tasteless jokes, being tried in criminal court for mocking feminists, requiring ID to vote), but Canadians do have an important and proud history in foreign conflicts. That said, when things like the High River flood gun confiscation of 2013 merely gave the RCMP a rap on the knuckles for confiscating guns by breaking into people's homes and safes, compare that to when the Bundy family had supporters from all over the country come to help them with their livestock grazing issues that the BLM relented over. The Bundy action where all those people descended on the ranch was something which could have very easily gone badly and for which Bundy himself was eventually arrested. Yet I don't think any action by a Canadian in the modern era against perceived government oppression has any comparison. I think that's really what we're talking about here - that people here are willing to sacrifice themselves and escalate to protect their rights and protect themselves against government, as an aspect of culture.
Again, I want to be really clear that these are extreme situations I cite are nothing I would ever personally advocate for myself, but to point out culturally people here in the US are substantially different. After all, your country was essentially created by an act of British parliament whereas this one was created in armed defiance of the same.
[–]Dontellmywife -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
You need to learn more history.
Don't be too hard on him, American history books tend to significantly overstate their influence on events and understate that of others.
[–]mwmwmwmwmmdw -3 points-2 points-1 points  (5 children)
im sorry but our healthcare system here has saved me and my famlies life much more than my sks has. our gun laws do suck but that doesnt necessarily make as an inferior country because of it.
also as a side note i always see violent/sexual movies getting much harsher ratings in america than in canada so im not sure who is more fearful of bad images
[–]AlaskanPipeline04 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
That's odd, healthcare in my country (US) saved my grandpa from potential colon cancer by discovering it via colonoscopy.
[–]mwmwmwmwmmdw 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
how much did he pay afterwards or how much would his insurance premiums have been if he didnt have medicare?
[–]bllasae 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
The healthcare system here sucks so if that's saved your lives more than your gun you should count yourself extremely lucky.
[–]mwmwmwmwmmdw -1 points0 points1 point  (1 child)
it sucks if you dont need life saving emergency surgery i agree. and yes i know if i needed life saving surgery in america i would get it no problem i would just have a massive bill after
[–]bllasae 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
It sucks if you do, too. Literally it's terrible if you want anything done in the next 4 months or so. It's also more expensive than American insurance.
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