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[–]hyene -57 points-56 points-55 points  (29 children)
I have little doubt 90% of those 53 students are men who don't understand what it feels like to be raped and how disgusting it is that rapists get less jail time in America than people who use cannabis.
According to the law, weed is more dangerous than rape.
According to morality, ethics, logic and science, rape is more dangerous than weed.
But hey, who needs science and morality when you can have rapist-apologist laws, judges and lawyers instead?
[–]classicredditaccount 22 points23 points24 points  (19 children)
Not sure you understood what they were staying. None of the people who signed what was written agreed with the sentence that was given, but they did believe that judicial independence to give lenience in sentencing when deemed necessary. Please read the article before you comment.
[–]hyene comment score below threshold-46 points-45 points-44 points  (18 children)
I did read the article. They're two-faced, claiming they don't agree with the sentence while at the same time supporting discretion to give rapists more lenient sentences.
Please sit down and have in-depth conversations with survivors of sexual assault before you comment.
wow: the reddit legal rape brigade is out in full force. let me guess: brock turner's sociopath, rape-happy jock buddies are infesting reddit. bravo, a whole thread devoted to rape apologists. like that's anything new on reddit.
[–]classicredditaccount 26 points27 points28 points  (0 children)
Do not assume that I have am not familiar with the victims of sexual assault based on my view of this issue. In this case you would be extremely mistaken.
Secondly, what they are discussing is that a disagreement about a decision a judge makes is less important than the autonomy that we afford judges in making sentencing decisions.
[–]RayWencube 12 points13 points14 points  (0 children)
The reason we turn suspected criminals over to an impartial judiciary is specifically to avoid letting passion influence decisions about guilt and sentencing.
[–]deadlast 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
Sit down with someone serving a life sentence. I've done that. Have you?
[–]LukeFromSpace 7 points8 points9 points  (2 children)
That's terrible logic. I disagree with the gesture of burning the American flag, I think it's a horrid thing to do. That does not mean I think freedom of speech should restrict the act and punish those who do so. You can disapprove of the way something is used, but still value and fight to uphold that right.
[–]greenokapi -4 points-3 points-2 points  (1 child)
I agree with your general point, but imho that is a really bad analogy.
[–]LukeFromSpace 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
And why's that
[–]ocinle 9 points10 points11 points  (9 children)
Maybe you should consider how your attitude leads to mass incarceration and perpetuation of white supremacy.
[–]hyene comment score below threshold-21 points-20 points-19 points  (8 children)
Ah yes, recalling ONE judge to prevent him from making harmful judicial decisions will lead to mass incarceration and white supremacy.
Come on. Hyperbole much?
[–]tehbored 13 points14 points15 points  (0 children)
What kind of precedent does this set? If Persky gets removed, all other judges will see it and hand out harsher sentences to save their own asses. And who is going to bear the brunt of this? Poor people, that's who. If you can't see this, you are a naive fool blinded by class privilege.
[–]ocinle 29 points30 points31 points  (1 child)
No snowflake think's it's responsible for the avalanche.
[–]No1MapleSyrupFan[S] 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
Well said ocinle.
[–]RayWencube 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
But it's true. Holding judges accountable to the public for decisions about guilt and sentencing has resulted in much higher conviction rates and dramatically longer sentences in cases with poor, black defendants.
[–]deadlast 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Yes, it does. The California Supreme Court started ignoring legal errors in death penalty cases after two justices were recalled for being perceived as too lenient.
Why do you comment about issues that you are obviously uninformed about? Volunteer or something. There's no excuse.
[–]mywan 3 points4 points5 points  (1 child)
My blood boils at the leniency this judge showed in this case. The evidence was dead to rights against this guy who committed one of the most heinous crimes out there. There are also cases where my blood boils at the harshness of judges rulings, the flimsiness of the evidence people are put away for life on, and the disparity between justice for those with money verses those without. But the question here is not what the consequences for the guilty should be, but judicial independence. A judges ability to do their job without being forced through politics to partake in actions independent of the law.
You rightly question the effect these public pressures have on mass incarceration. But I have watched this tough on crime ideology take root and grow since the 1970s. I have witnessed first hand the insidious consequences. Everything from lab technicians faking evidence wholesale, cops gaining the public's tacit consent to engage in their own instant justice at arrest, prosecutors engaging in illegally withholding evidence on a massive scale, secret computer systems to track jail house snitches that will say what the prosecutor wants them to say to convict anybody they want without real evidence, even illegal secret interrogation facilities operated by cops without the courts knowledge, etc., etc.
All of this and more is a direct consequence of the tough on crime political environment that makes it impossible for prosecutors and judges to do the right thing in many cases and keep their job.
So has this tough on crime actually helped improve justice? Well no. It has created an environment where your average poor sap gets railroaded, while those with money and power gets treated with kids gloves. To make matters worse, many of those with power merely gained the tacit consent to engage in criminal behavior of their own with near impunity.
So you can question the cost of denying the cost of judicial independence, but I have observed over four decades of the effects of this very kind of political pressure. The victim deserved justice, and it wasn't to be in this case. But denying judicial independence only insures that these cases will continue while for each case like this a dozen innocent people will get railroaded to satiate peoples demand for justice. Even as those charged with providing that justice work outside the law engaging in crimes of their own. All to keep this need for harsh justice satiated and they get to keep their jobs.
[–]No1MapleSyrupFan[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
That was a very well worded post mywan. I agree with you wholeheartedly that threatening judicial independence by recalling Persky will lead to more harm than good, even if he let Turner off the hook with a lenient sentence.
[–]yosemitesquint 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
I did read the article. They're two-faced, claiming they don't agree with the sentence while at the same time supporting discretion to give rapists more lenient sentences.
Come on. Hyperbole much?
ONE sentencing decision will lead to wanton raping without regard for any punishment? Do you understand that same discretion is used in giving lower drug sentences where allowed by legislators?
[–]KY_Counsel 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
As an attorney who spent a lot of time studying the social basis for the law your logic is frighteningly wrong. Being the victim of a crime DOES NOT give you a moral high ground, if anything it makes you the LEAST IMPORTANT person in a discussion of how society should treat people who committed a wrongful act against you.. Criminal punishment is a social and not an individual function, and the debate over how our judiciary works and the appropriate punishment to mete to someone for a wrongful act is open to EVERYONE including the perpetrator. The victim is too focused on their individual experience to be able to reliably measure the actual impact of the crime or criminal behaviour on society at large or to be able to determine the best mechanism for reducing the frequency of that behavior.The judicial system is not and never was designed to seek revenge or moral satisfaction for the victim; if anything it is intended to replace individual vengeance with sound social policy. It is sound social policy to give a judge the power to amend the punishment of a crime to match the facts of the case. It is sounder policy for our judiciary to be independent because that independence acts as a check on the excess of the legislature and the voter in protecting the rights of the accused, which are categorically more important than the rights of the victim.
[–]stufff 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
I did read the article. They're two-faced, claiming they don't agree with the sentence while at the same time supporting discretion to give rapists more lenient sentences.
That's not two faced. They're saying that as a general rule discretion is a good thing, and that even though in this case they don't like the result, they're not willing to ruin what is mostly a good thing over one bad example.
Please sit down and have in-depth conversations with survivors of sexual assault before you comment.
Feels before reals huh? In any case, done and done, I still don't agree with you.
wow: the reddit legal rape brigade is out in full force. let me guess: brock turner's sociopath, rape-happy jock buddies are infesting reddit. bravo, a whole thread devoted to rape apologists. like that's anything new on reddit.
You're not helping your side of the argument by throwing a temper tantrum and personally attacking everyone who disagrees with you. This is a sub largely populated by members of the legal community and people with an interest in law. Try using logic and reason and see if it gets you any farther than hysterics.
[–]DrLawyerson 8 points9 points10 points  (0 children)
according to the law, weed is more dangerous than rape
CITATION NEEDED
[–]dupreem 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
rapists get less jail time in America than people who use cannabis.
Where?
According to the law, weed is more dangerous than rape.
What law?.
According to morality, ethics, logic and science, rape is more dangerous than weed.
What morality, what ethics, what logic, what science?
But hey, who needs science and morality when you can have rapist-apologist laws, judges and lawyers instead?
And who needs facts when you can just baselessly condemn the legal system, scientific world, and American culture, all while suggesting that a person must be a rape apologist if s/he disagrees with you? Or perhaps the better question is -- if these people are so incorrect, why is your only reply to insult them while throwing out unsubstantiated, broad claims? Why not substantively address their arguments?
[–]first_five-eighth 0 points1 point2 points  (5 children)
How would firing judges who give lenient sentences to rapists solve this problem? Wouldn't it be more effective to pass laws mandating stricter minimum sentences for rapists?
[–]No1MapleSyrupFan[S] 3 points4 points5 points  (4 children)
Yes, imposing minimum sentences is an option. But as the article (and others in this thread) have noted, mandatory minimums tend to lead to mass incarceration and disproportionately affect minorities and people living in poverty. If you want to read up more on the effects of mandatory minimums: https://bccla.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Mandatory-Minimum-Sentencing.pdf.
[–]first_five-eighth 2 points3 points4 points  (3 children)
Mandatory minimums don't make sense when applied to something as relatively harmless and widespread as drug possession/use. Sex crimes, on the other hand, make up a far smaller percentage of crimes committed and are far more heinous, so the effects of minimum sentences would not be as far-reaching or damaging.
[–]No1MapleSyrupFan[S] 2 points3 points4 points  (2 children)
Good point. But there is a correlation between implementation of mandatory minimums and increased rate of plea bargains by innocent people who don't want to risk spending more time in jail. If implementation of mandatory minimum for sexual assault and rape occurs, wouldn't there be the chance that more innocent people would be accepting plea bargains instead of risking spending more time in jail ?
[–]first_five-eighth 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Good point, I forgot about that.
[–]KY_Counsel 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Absolutely. Mandatory minimums also increase the probability of prosecutors bringing marginal cases for trial because they know that defense attorneys are more likely to negotiate a plea to a lesser charge than risk getting a conviction on the one long shot charge with a long mandatory sentence pending on the docket. I see this all the time where I practice.
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