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LVG's Rebuilding. (self.reddevils)

mu_37 が 投稿

I would like to start by saying that this is not a thread made to shit on LVG,i just wanted to address what we achieved in his time here.

so the much used argument in favor of the last two years was that we managed to rebuild the squad,making Jose's job here much easier.

and i believed that argument for the most part.but when i actually though about it more and more,i started believing less and less.

LVG'S signings that looks set to be starters this season are:Shaw,Blind and Martial.(3)

players who were here before him who have started every league game:DDG,Fellaini,Rooney,Valencia and Mata.(5)

and Jose's signings that started are 3 and looks likely to become 4 in the near future.

LVG'S signings that are looking like they are going to be squad players:Herrera,Schneiderlin and Romero.

LVG'S failed signings: Falcao,Di Maria,Valdes and i think it's safe to say Schweinsteiger.

the ones with their future looking like it's up in the air at this point:Darmian,Memphis and Rojo.

all failing to get any minutes in the league and missing out even on the bench for the majority of the time.i know they will get their chance in the EL,but do you honestly call that rebuilding?

and finally the supposed saving grace of playing youth.out of the ones who played only one has actually succeeded and we all know his name and how he came about getting his chance in the first place.

with other notable names being CBJ and TFM.everyone else has either been sold our loaned out if you actually count Pereira as someone who was given a chance.

i know am using a very small sample of life after him to make a point,but i still feel like what we have seen so far doesn't support the argument that we did great rebuilding or anything close to that.

again,not here to blame LVG for the failed signings.i just wanted to see what you guys think,do you actually think we rebuilt the team in the last 2 years? or do we need to admit that they were mostly failure with some great things coming out of them like Rashford and Martial?

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[–]shaikhbilalmoin 13ポイント14ポイント  (2子コメント)

Just comparing the Arrival of Mourinho at Chelsea where he had to get rid of almost all of the squad so much deadwood, while at united who he sold? not 1 deadwood in first team. That's the job LVG did well, We had so much deadwood 3 year ago now we have zero afterwards. SO credit where its due.

[–]arron77 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Definitely agree, we have quality like Herrera and Schneiderlin on the bench as opposed to players we've seen over the years such as Cleverley, Anderson, Gibson etc etc

[–]Flick_My_Bean_Geoff 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's because LVG had a tiny squad. Can't really go making 9 transfers for the first team squad in the first year.

[–]tocitusMemphis 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think we hugely re-built the team over the last few years and it is difficult for anyone to dispute that.

David Moyes' squad:

Position Player Current Status/Team
GK DDG Man United
GK Lindegaard Preston North End
GK Amos Cardiff City
RB Rafael Lyon
CB Vidic Retired
CB Ferdinand Retired
CB Jones Man United
CB Smalling Man United
CB Evans West Brom
LB Evra Juventus
LB Fabio Middlesbrough
LB Buttner Dinamo Moscow
CM Carrick Man United
CM Cleverley Everton
CM Fellaini Man United
CM Anderson Spot Club Internacional
CM Fletcher West Brom
CM Giggs Retired
CAM Mata Man United
CAM Kagawa Dortmund
RM Valencia Man United
RM Zaha Crystal Palace
RM Januzaj Sunderland
RM Bebe Eibar
LM Nani Valencia
LM Young Man United
ST Rooney Man United
ST RVP Fenerbache
ST Hernandez Leverkusen
ST Welbeck Arsenal
ST Lawrence Ipswich Town
ST Henriquez Dinamo Zagreb

So that was Moyes' squad for the season and we only have 9 players left from that era with the majority of the replacements/transfers being done by LVG.

[–]SurilliarManchester United 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

I think you're missing the crazy amount of deadwood he got rid of though.

[–]mu_37[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

fair enough i didn't mention that because i honestly though it was the easiest part of the job,because what is deadwood really?

wouldn't Fellaini and Valencia be called that before Mourinho came by the majority of the fans?

isn't Shweini the best definition of deadwood?

Nani is playing for Valencia today,was he 100% deadwood?

i just feel that this argument is not so black and white.

[–]reddit_no_likeyA new dawn is coming... 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I agree. What some here (& LVG) consider deadwood, I think actually have some life in them yet. Quite a few that LVG let go were horribly mismanaged. Many lost confidence and form under him. 2 (somewhat) failed managers can have that affect.

[–]CompletelyBiasedBig Dave 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Even Rio brought up the issue about players van Gaal let go after the 2-0 defeat at Anfield. Listed off di Maria, Kagawa, Hernandez, Welbeck, Nani, Rafael (etc.) and you'd have to be a stringent die hard van Gaal cockmongerer to argue the team we played that day couldn't have benefited from those players we let go.

[–]Flick_My_Bean_Geoff 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Evans and Hernandez were definitely good enough to stay and no one would bat an eye if Welbeck was still a squad player here.

[–]black_squireMartial 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Our team is currently made up of 23 outfield players and 3 GKs. Of those 26 players, Mourinho only needed to buy 4 to make up a team he believes can challenge for titles in every competition. It's not about the starters alone. It's about the squad that's available for the manager and LVG is responsibility me for a large percentage of that squad.

Rashford, Lingard, TFM were the youth breakthroughs because of LVG.

Not only was he able to put a squad together with few left to complete, he took them to a trophy win. I don't know aid most people share this sentiment but I believe that FA Cup win huge for the team at the time. Winning a trophy like that provides just the right amount of confidence and motivation to believe that we can continue to win more. The club had gone 3 years without anything. For several of those players it was their first trophy and first FA cup for most. That's big to the development of team psyche.

[–]Flick_My_Bean_Geoff 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

..and yet Moyesie has more of his transfers starting for us right now and the LVGs other signings are all on the fringe of the squad and don't look in favour at all. Darmian, Rojo, Bastian are 3 players who I think will be gone next summer.

[–]Flick_My_Bean_Geoff 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pointless tbh. Everyone likes to revise history to suit themselves. They'll say LVG is a vital part of our success now despite Moyes having more transfers of his currently in the starting lineup than LVG and LVGs other transfers are all on the fringe of the squad and don't look in favour.

[–]leonardowmd 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

It was the shit he got rid of and wasn't afraid to get rid of. Moyes didn't want to upset fergie by dismantling his team, LVG didn't care. Imagine if LVG had t sold the players he had, where we would be now?

[–]BloodyMess111 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He didn't want to upset Fergie by dismantling the team but sacked all the backroom staff

[–]goodguy1994it's Rooneyyy, it's inevitable. some things are meant to be 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

See I think no ones saying lvg was total failure. Think if we win the title in the next two years he will get a lot of credit for bringing in blind, martial, Rashford, Lingard and TFM

[–]BloodyMess111 -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Rashford, TFM, Lingard - Joyce mate, not Van Gaal

[–]goodguy1994it's Rooneyyy, it's inevitable. some things are meant to be 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

He still has to bring them into the team.

[–]labtecozaRonaldo 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

would like to start by saying that this is not a thread made to shit on LVG

It is though. And did you see the wreck we were under Moyes? At least we got some stability under LvG

[–]Dryhtscipe 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

By performing at exactly the same level? I mean that is stability but weirdly you appear to be saying LVG's failure to improve the performance of the squad was better than Moyes' degrading of it to that level... When really they are the same thing.

[–]black_squireMartial 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

We made it back into the UCL his first season. Tied for 4th in the second and won a trophy. You consider that the same level of performance as Moyes ?

[–]Dryhtscipe 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I consider it the same performance as Moyes when the points tally barely changed at all and we were an utter and complete fucking bore to watch, yes. Especially considering the overall spend.