全 117 件のコメント

[–]ImmAPear 129ポイント130ポイント  (27子コメント)

She's really built of tough stuff to patiently put up with all those kids yelling at her and trying to make her feel as though her observations and opinions are supporting "hate speech." She's been advocating for equality the entire time, pointing out the double standards that are shaming anyone who doesn't support Feminism. I'm glad there are still people in this world like her. And she's right, this type of Feminism is tipping equality off center and doing more harm than good. Living in a society that shames freedom of speech doesn't present safety. It presents oppression.

[–]Mitchypoo 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

"When you've been living a privileged life, equality seems like oppression."

[–]jimmierussles 10ポイント11ポイント  (3子コメント)

She voiced her opinion even though it wasn't popular, and that's the most cowardly thing a person can do!

[–]Musclemagic 10ポイント11ポイント  (7子コメント)

TLDR: If she was not a she there would be no support for her.

[–]StrayMoggie [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

Honest question: where do trans men / trans women fit in feminism? Are trans men hated as men or given a pass because of genetics and are trans women given a pass as women or hated because of their genetics?

[–]Rebax [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I've thought about this lately. It sounds weird, but give it time - the radical feminist mindset will eventually turn on trans/gay men. Theyre men after all and once their status is more firmly accepted there won't be that "oppressed solidarity" keeping the feminists sympatico with them anymore

[–]caustic_kiwi [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Well first of all, I don't think you're going to find many feminists who hate men just because of their gender.

[–]a_very_oe [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Hahahaaha... thanks for the morning chuckle friend. :)

[–]caustic_kiwi [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Seriously though, reddit loves the strawman feminist. Those kind of people are just not that common in real life. I've lived in Portland and Seattle my whole life and I've only ever met one.

[–]Parzival___ [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

There is a new generation of 'feminists' that are really harming the cause. I think they call themselves SJW's, or are called that. Either way most of them reside to using big fancy words that nobody knows the meaning of in the hope that nobody realises the empty bullshit they spew.

They start from the premise that all white, straight men are evil basically. They are very aggressive and provocative and like to gather in group and then attack (verbally of course) because that makes it easier for them to hush the others voice and increase their own.

But deep down all they do is hate. The worst among them will spew bullshit like 'men can't be raped' and 'If you are a straight white male, you are the problem, you are the patriarchy'.

What they want is not equality. Most of them want attention probably, some of them want to flip the table. none of them want equality. It is because of them that I stopped calling myself a feminist and started calling myself somebody who wants everybody to be fucking equal.

I'm a guy, and i don't think I'm better then any woman. Yeah we are different, but that does not mean one is better then the other. Simple as that.

[–]caustic_kiwi [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Again, those people are really not as common as reddit would have you believe. They're a vocal minority, and definitely not representative of feminism as most feminists would see it.

[–]Dontwearthatsock 25ポイント26ポイント  (8子コメント)

i love the fucking doofus at @ 21:00 who just cant wrap his mind around men and women being equally responsible for the same action

[–]-Scathe- 10ポイント11ポイント  (6子コメント)

He's so fucking obnoxious and stupid which is a dangerous cocktail.

[–]StrayMoggie 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

It think he is trying to get laid. Too much blood has moved away from his brain to another area.

[–]-Scathe- 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Must be the case.

[–]StrayMoggie -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm pretty sure that I've had that face when I'm about to get laid, but like the cat pukes on the bed or the monthly test of the emergency broadcast system commences.

[–]Dontwearthatsock [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

i wish he would have broken his neck trying to tilt his head to an angle he could understand her point from

[–]StrayMoggie 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

A woman and a man both have a few drinks and decide to have sex. Either both are just as responsible or both are just as not responsible. Either both can claim rape or neither can claim rape.

That is simple logic.

[–]over-my-head 28ポイント29ポイント  (2子コメント)

I personally attended one of the talks given by Prof. Fiamengo on this subject at my University a couple years ago. Before her speech took place (which admittedly was sponsored by a Men's Rights group on campus), assorted members of the Gender Studies department and other activists actively attempted to block her from being able to give her speech, not only through official protests to University administration, but, when that method failed, by seeking to have the men's rights group itself deratified and disbanded, merely to prevent the talk from occurring.

Whether or not I agreed with the principles of the MRA group at the school, the idea that a group of people with a particular ideology would go so far as to advocate the dismantling of a campus organization simply to prevent a critical discussion of their ideology (feminism) from taking place was reprehensible.

Below is an original recounting of my impressions of what the event was like, and the issues surrounding it, from back then. The original post was posted to /r/AskFeminists and titled I went to a talk by an MRA, not because I subscribe to their views, but because I was angry that other students were attempting to prevent her from speaking. Why is such an obviously undemocratic suppression of free thought and speech acceptable?:


A number of months ago, Janice Fiamengo, a Prof. of English at the University of Ottawa, gave a talk at my school presented by a newly-formed Men's Issues Awareness Group, and the Canadian Association For Equality (CAFE), a group which is widely regarded as a front for Men's Rights Activists, which many people believe are part of what is essentially a misogynistic hate group. Personally, I haven't looked deep enough into MRAs to have come to a conclusion that that is all they actually are. I'm not saying they AREN'T a hate group or misogynistic, I just haven't looked into them enough yet to make a determination.

Before this speech, I had never even heard of MRAs. And I wasn't really hugely concerned with feminist issues either. But when I found out that someone was coming to my campus to give a talk, and a large number of feminist students were actively attempting to prevent her from even being allowed to speak, simply because they disagreed with her ideas, or because said ideas didn't fit with their ideology, I got angry. These particular students even tried to stop the talk by attempting to de-ratify the Men's Issues group at school by presenting a motion to the student government asserting that the group "perpetuated rape culture and female oppression on campus."

I decided I would attend the talk, not because I subscribed to Prof. Fiamengo's ideas (to be honest, I had no clue what they were at the time), but because I hated the idea of an attempt at the suppression of free speech, particularly in a place (a University campus) where ALL forms of intellectual discussion, no matter how unpopular, should be able to be discussed.

Prof. Fiamengo's talk aimed to question the validity of the theory of the existence of a "rape culture" in society. She claimed that it didn't exist. While this might be an unpopular position to hold, why is it unacceptable for her to express it? Why is it deemed acceptable to make serious attempts to prevent the issue from even being debated?

At the presentation I attended, there was a considerable amount of heckling and jeering, and members of the audience would frequently interject and attempt to interrupt and speak over the Professor in the middle of her speech. Despite being informed that there would be an opportunity to for questions and answers later on. Personally, I found this to be incredibly rude and annoying.

A further, more shocking incident during the presentation, was when the Professor showed footage of a previous speaking engagement at another university, wherein attendees of the talk were loudly berated and verbally abused (called "fucking scum" amongst other unpleasantries), simply because they chose to attend the speech. Police actually had to restrain the protesters, if I recall correctly.

On another occasion, a talk by Prof. Fiamengo on another campus was almost immediately interrupted by protesters who clapped, made noises, blew horns, and did whatever they could to prevent the talk from carrying on. They were successful in interrupting the speech. Footage is linked here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOnuZsXRwTA

I subscribe to the notion of free speech as presented by Noam Chomsky in Manufacturing Consent:

If you believe in freedom of speech, you believe in freedom of speech for views you don't like. Stalin and Hitler, for example, were dictators in favor of freedom of speech for views they liked only. If you're in favor of freedom of speech, that means you're in favor of freedom of speech precisely for views you despise.

If you only are in favour of freedom of speech for views you agree with, or that fit your ideology, than you're not actually in favour of free speech. Furthermore, the best way to test the validity of a position or idea is through free and open intellectual discussion. Not by suppression of unpopular ideas.

I'm not saying I agree with the idea that rape culture doesn't exist. But if it does exist, then why are certain individuals (often feminists) afraid of even debating the issue? If the theory of a rape culture is valid, then isn't a free, open debate on the subject the best way to prove it, and to completely delegitimize the position of MRAs and people like Prof. Fiamengo who deny its existence, through the sheer force of superior intellectual argumentation?

TL;DR: Why do certain feminists tolerate or even attempt to actively suppress the open discussion of certain topics that don't conform to their ideologies, such as the debate on the existence of rape culture? Why is this deemed acceptable?

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/27g2du/i_went_to_a_talk_by_an_mra_not_because_i/


EDIT: As an aside, I just remembered that /r/AskFeminists is the only subreddit from which I have ever been banned, and that I was banned with zero explanation, nor did I receive any explanation from the moderators when I requested one.

Still, I don't consider myself to be "anti-feminist" or an MRA at all. In fact, the last 3 women I've dated or "hooked up with" were all members of the Gender Studies departments at different schools (one being a gender studies undergrad, another a gender studies Masters Student, and another a professor with a Ph.D in criminology who also teaches gender studies courses within the sociology department.) !

[–]1_pua_owna_1 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

A woman and a large number of feminist students were attempting to prevent her from speaking.

[–]quantic56d 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

She sums it all up at 24:50. "There is no right to not feel uncomfortable." She's talking about it in relation to ideas that are presented to people. You don't have a right to not be offended. If we build a world where that is the case, we have descended into fascism.

It amazes me that with the cost of University now, such a fundamental concept of society is being allowed to be trampled. These kinds of ideas about restricting speech or rights of groups to assemble is a fundamental part of a free society.

[–]Mitchypoo 18ポイント19ポイント  (5子コメント)

Good documentary. The part where they were all chanting "this is what men's rights looks like" was especially comical. The right to assemble with our peers and right to freedom of speech? Yeah, everyone has those, in most of the developed world anyway. You want to see legitimate privelege? If a man condescendingly got in my face and said "you are fucking scum" and harassed me like that girl did to that guy simply because I was standing there, I'd drop him like a bag of rocks. I can't touch a woman though, because doing so is seen as a much more heinous, frowned upon act and the punishment for doing so is much, much more severe. Right there you see legitimate "privilege." She is allowed to get away with more because she is protected more based solely on gender.

[–]rockstarsheep 31ポイント32ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow! Never saw this coming. I think this should be seen by as many people as possible. Nice one, OP. Cross post this to /r/TrueReddit .

[–]cheesy-kegerator 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Working against yourselves!

A LOT of men support their spouse emotionally, spiritually, and morally - these women that do abuse these "rights" are just not loved - sorry but you can't call yellow "green", when it's yellow.

Yes, we all have our differences - but I really have disagree with many of these protesters.

I stay in before 11PM-ish, because I realize that it might be a risk to my safety - and I live in Chicago. I don't go on the train late at night........because guess why. Nobody is guaranteed safety in this world.

Everyone could be a victim - not just because of your gender. Stop pretending it's because you are a woman.

[–]factsmakeyoumad 23ポイント24ポイント  (1子コメント)

This woman is one of my personal heroes. She speaks truths in public where I may not. If I spoke these facts under my own identity, I would be socially and economically exiled...again. Everything this woman says about feminism is dead center accurate. She will be vindicated by History and exalted as a champion of men everywhere.

[–]StrayMoggie 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

She will be vindicated by History and exalted as a champion of men everywhere.

Champion of people everywhere.

True equality. Double standards and passes that give preference to one group makes them appear weaker and defeats equality.

The means don't justify the ends. The means must equal the ends. Treat both sides equally if you want equality.

[–]joyntforlife 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

The fact that they want to censor free speech so badly scares me. Welcome to 1998, I think itll happen within the next 10 years. Be ready for a civil war.

[–]nice_on_ice 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

She is a truly inspiring person. Unfortunately, feminists would rather get you fired than have an open conversation on any topic so many people shy away from discussion. It's good to see some backlash against the censorship.

[–]Beastrik 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

KEEP YOUR HATESPEECH OF THIS CAMPUTH!!!

[–]iamunstrung 9ポイント10ポイント  (5子コメント)

This is excellent.

[–]25_Star_General_ 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

Reminds me of that professor at Yale last year trying to deal with 18 yo freshman two months into their first semester who are yelling and physically intimidating a professor, screaming at the top of their lungs that they don't feel safe and they're being oppressed.
Social Justice Warriors parroting dumb activist professors and missing the irony of bullying other professors who don't agree with them and not letting them speak are maybe the most annoying first-world thing in contemporary society.

[–]MelissaClick 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

that professor at Yale last year trying to deal with 18 yo freshman two months into their first semester who are yelling and physically intimidating a professor, screaming at the top of their lungs that they don't feel safe and they're being oppressed.

For any who haven't seen this:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvIqJIL2kOMefn77xg6-6yrvek5kbNf3Z

[–]3rd_Shift 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

What we all knew already; teenagers are too stupid to be taken seriously. I can understand how this stings a teenager, as I can remember how I wasn't taken seriously when I was a stupid teen. Nevertheless, facts are facts.

[–]caustic_kiwi [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Just going to put this out there, I have a friend who goes to Yale who said that the whole event was completely misrepresented. She's a staunch feminist, but not to the point that reddit would consider her a "feminazi" or anything. I don't remember much of her explanation, but there was something about the professor being obligated to create a "safe space" due to some position he held in the residential community rather than his position as a professor, and also I believe she said he was much more aggressive when he wasn't being videoed. I can't verify any of this, but I just thought I'd throw it out. It certainly wouldn't be the first misleading video in history.

[–]gruttewierd [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Feminists feel they are the most entitled group in western society today. The irony is maddening.

[–]Lowkey_ilovenudes [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I can already see /r/twoxchromosomes post tomorrow: "evil bitch tells lies about feminism, study finds she's always wrong"

[–]gpaularoo 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

feminism nowadays is like socialism, it has become so incredibly warped and twisted by the media and political interests that its so hard to have a logical and productive discussion about it.

There are all sorts of myths and traps people fall into, myths that continuously dug back up and spread around.

For most people, regarding feminism, it would take at the very least 30 mins with a doctorate degree minimum educated person to get their facts straightened out and get them to some unbiased level ground where they could properly analyse what they truly think about feminism.

I think this mass politically motivated confusion of certain left wing political concepts is a huge problem in America, and many other western countries.

[–]aspectq [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Humanities as a whole has this problem. Unlike hard science, there is no objective answer for most of the problems. As a result, scholars in these fields keep digging deeper and deeper hole for themselves.

For me, I have always believed that the answers lie somewhere in between the two extremes of any ideology. Hardliners are always bad, no matter which side they belong to.

[–]gpaularoo [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

i think the solutions to these problems lay at the heart of our economic and political system.

Improving society, (such as correcting inequality), means investing resources into society, which costs money. Capitalism as it exists now does not prioritize things of social value as no1.

Bottom lines, making money, that will ALWAYS be no1.

I really dont think the answers are to be found in deeper social science research. There will be no light-bulb moment here. A feminist could come up with the most compelling and perfect research in the history of social science, but the fact is in order to implement it will mean challenging how society works.

[–]Parzival___ [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The problem is you have two types of feminism now. The old school one which is about true equality. Not only between sexes, but between races as well. And then you have the new generation, who in my opinion are too aggressive, too provocative and truly don't have the same goals in mind any more.

They suffer from an echo chamber, because they all band together and only talk together, increasing their zeal. And another huge problem is that whenever they do anything, they come in a small horde. which causes those who oppose them to be muffled so only their voice remains.

[–]director979 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Impressive, love how she stands up to all the bullshit and continues to deliver the message. There are so few people like her out there.. Unfortunately.

[–]jimmierussles 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

Real talk though, feminist professors are some of the stupidest people teaching their students to parrot hate speech I've ever listened to.

[–]caustic_kiwi [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Real talk though, that's a huge generalization.

[–]NickelBack_Lover_69 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

/r/shitredditsays just got triggered.

[–]Dontwearthatsock 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I didnt realize they ever stopped being triggered

[–]GLOBALSHUTTER [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

These women are crazy? They are like those who offer death threats to people who hunt animals and eat meat.

[–]ekhfarharris [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

i would like to quote the Mad King here - "burn them all!"

[–]slasher_hero [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yes, we all have our differences - but I just remembered that /r/AskFeminists is the case, we have descended into fascism.

[–]Keenbean248 -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

OP knows his audience well

[–]StrayMoggie 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

I guessing it wasn't cross posted to XX...

[–]Nilbogtraf [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I actually would like to see that shitstorm. There are a lot of very level headed women in that sub, that I think would far outweigh the censorship cheerleaders. But I sure as fuck am not touching it with a 10 foot pole.

[–]caustic_kiwi [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm guessing it's going to end on on SRS in some form or another.

[–]NetContribution 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Definitely going to give this a watch.

[–]Aorus_ -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I always get a kick out of how emasculated and unattractive the pro radical feminism guys are. I wonder do they get like that because they followed feminism or did find feminism because they are like that. It's probably something like they followed society's current views, ended up like that, then joined up with feminists to rage against the paradigm that they don't get revenge with equality.

"not all rape is sexual assault" *ignores her and keeps going