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Wife went nuclear, struggling with my options. (self.askMRP)

JaneYou1gnorantSlut が 投稿

Bit of background, first time posting a question. 3 weeks into MRP. 1/2 way through MMSL, NMMNG, WISNIFG. Reading all the top posts, sidebar stuff (Rational Male, FamilyAlpha, etc.). All of it is gold, and I am rapidly moving BACK towards the man I was when my wife and I married nearly 18 years ago (at age 18 and 19). We have 3 kids, 10,12,15. Moving back to RP really fast, this stuff is a feast of life blood.

Its been a struggle over the years. We have separated before, once for nearly 2 years. There was a time when I was verbally abusive and an alcoholic. This is long past and I definitely have paid a price for that. We made a commitment about 1-1/2 years ago to make a huge push to restore this relationship. After many counselors that tried and failed, we finally found a Christian counselor that has been working really well, especially for me.

I can say 100% that I have owned my shit, and have put an enormous amount of effort into changing into the man, the husband and the father that God wants me to be. I love my wife. I show her affection like crazy. I get nothing in return. According to our counselor, and the Bible apparently, as I improve and meet her needs she will respond and in turn meet my needs (sex, affection, etc.). If I started out at 0% with the goal of changing 100%, I would say I am stable at 33% improvement and fluctuate to 66% and back as I keep pressing forward.

There is no response. Nothing. Just a heart of stone. 0% change on her part. This morning in counseling, she victim puked all over the place, taking the worst snippets of my behavior over the past couple years and painting me with that brush top to bottom. These things are not things I do to her to make her upset. These are errors of omission, like slacking off with the house work. Chores inside the house type stuff. I still fix everything that needs fixing, and generally take care of anything one would consider a man's job. Fix our cars, appliances, anything electrical or mechanical in the house.

My wife is not a feminist, and agrees that gender roles are a very real and important thing. She does have a white American entitled princess mentality though, and that has to go. She is gorgeous, and has had this treatment all her life, and like a sucker I fed into it unknowingly over the years, while simultaneously resenting her for it. I don't even know where to start deprogramming her from that, other than praying for her.

I am doing my best to purge my ego of expectations, covert contracts, etc. Basically killing my blue pill ego and building up red pill strength. Her ego absolutely has to go. I cannot put up with it. It fuels her anger, resentment, hostility, and inability to see outside her dogmatic positions. Where I am completely fine with being convinced I am wrong, and willing to change, she will hear none of her flaws, wants nothing to do with it.

I never thought I would be at the point where I ask her to leave, but I feel it is days away. I need to be in an environment conducive to my change. I have not found a way to do that when I am being bombarded with all those negative emotions. It is job #1 to get to 100% changed back to who I was before becoming a blue pill faggot push-over. Part of me wants her to come with me, and part of me thinks that because she has been so cold, so hostile

for so long, she doesn't deserve a "new me". She can go out on her own testing the market and maybe realize just how awesome I am, and am becoming. The other reality is if I do ask her to leave, there is about a 0% chance I would ever want her back. Live is so much easier without her. I doubt she would want to come back either.

This is really a dead relationship, and I'm trying CPR as a hail Mary as I am truly 100% committed to change. Id love to say I give it 1 year and just slowly work the levels of dread. I don't know if I have the willpower when my wife is a hostile force impeding my progress.

I am seeing our counselor tomorrow morning myself, and I am bringing up all this in an attempt to find a spiritual answer. Any advice is really appreciated, thanks for listening.

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[–]Bread_Pilled 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

A tree does not grow in a day. It takes time. It needs a proper amount of sunlight, water, fertilizer. With a sufficient amount of components, the tree will grow large and strong. It will be an oak that will not be blown over by the slightest breeze. This takes time.

A man is the same way. He cannot become a strong oak in a mere three weeks. He to lift, to read, to implement his MAP and develop strong roots.

So why should one believe everything will change for in a mere three weeks? This is not logical. This takes time.

Trees grow where they receive the best sunlight. They adapt to their surroundings, pushing away from the shadowed areas towards where they can receive the most sun. They are focused on that single goal, for it benefits only them.

The goal in this post is flawed. You claim that

I am doing my best to purge my ego of expectations, covert contracts

Yet you say:

There is no response. Nothing. Just a heart of stone. 0% change on her part

...

She can go out on her own testing the market and maybe realize just how awesome I am, and am becoming.

Isn't the expectation that your spouse will change as a result of your changes a covert contract? Make changes for yourself, not her.

Finally, there is much discussion concerning your spouse's emotions. Observe:

I don't even know where to start deprogramming her from that, other than praying for her.

...

She does have a white American entitled princess mentality though, and that has to go

An oak tree does not concern itself on changing what other nearby trees are doing. So why should you focus on changing her? This is external. It is out of your control. Focus on yourself.

[–]stonepimpletilistsMod / Red Beret 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you're doing this to win her back, with that and a quarter you can buy a cup of coffee.

No priest words are going to bring back desire. All you got is your building of value. TBH, I'd be surprised if she wasn't just phoning this one in for jesus. I wouldn't trust you when you say 'this time it will be different' and I doubt she does either.

Do you even believe that, or do you want to believe it?

[–]cholomiteBP Downvote Magnet 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

"I show her affection like crazy. I get nothing in return"

Yea man no shit. I'll be honest, you sound like a whiny pathetic bitch.

"Boo hoo, my wife is cold to me sometimes, boo hoo she is giving me negative emotions while I'm trying to change. I used to be an abusive drunk but now I'm not, why doesn't she respect me? Wahhhhh"

I know you based only on your post and I don't respect you. You're a grown man, it's time to sack the fuck up and stop letting your wife bum you out so much. Stop chasing her affection, stop expecting her to respect and love you because you are being nice and affectionate. That behavior is literally repulsive to women, your wife included.

Women don't want to be treated awesome by an okay man, they want to be treated okay by an awesome man. What are you doing to make yourself awesome? All I get from this post is that you are praying and going to a counselor. That doesn't mean shit to your wife. You can use prayer as a method of meditation, but it has nothing to do with how much respect your wife will have for you. When you are hanging off the edge of a cliff and are too weak to pull yourself up because you're too lazy to lift weights, God won't help you, and neither will your wife. Stop trying to pray your way into your wife's heart, it's lazy and a cop-out.

Also stop trying to control your wife, you can only control yourself. You have the ability to not let her moods and negative emotions influence you. Blaming her negativity for preventing you from bettering yourself is probably the most pathetic and laughable excuse I've ever heard on here.

What are you actively doing to become a man worthy of your wife's respect? Do you work out? How do you dress? How do you respond when she shit tests you? From the tone of this post I would guess not well.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Women don't want to be treated awesome by an okay man, they want to be treated okay by an awesome man.

Stolen.

[–]youcantdenythat 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

After going through this myself a few times let me help you out. I'm going to say some stuff you don't want to hear.

  1. She is acting normally for a woman who has lost attraction for her husband. She sees you as unworthy of her.
  2. Attraction is not a choice. She can't become more sexual with you, any more then you can get attracted to a 80 year old ugly fat woman in the nursing home.
  3. All that victim puke she told the counselor is how she really feels. That is the mountain you have to climb to change her view of you. It will be way easier to start over with someone new. You're basically going to have to become Brad Pitt to get her attracted to you again.
  4. Yeah, you deserve better. Yeah this isn't fair. Yeah she should have just as much culpability as you. Yeah, she's not doing her part, yeah yeah yeah... Sorry mate, that's how women are. It's their nature. This is a very hard pill to swallow. You want her to take responsibility for her part, but she won't and can't. You want her to do something she isn't capable of doing. You're on your own here.

I don't know your situation but I will tell you this. If you want to get a good relationship and hot sex again, it's going to be much easier with someone else. You need to decide what is most important to you.

  1. Divorce and find a new woman and get a good relationship with lots of hot sex.
  2. Become Brad Pitt and get a decent relationship and decent sex from your current wife
  3. Don't do anything and stay in a marriage of convenience (for the kids, or whatever logistics may be important)

[–]ParadoxThatDrivesUs 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Here's another hard truth: If she really is gorgeous, she'll have absolutely no trouble "testing the marketplace" and finding another man. Therr will be a line of BPs around the block. If you split, she'll almost certainly hookup faster than you. All of which should be irrelevant to your thought process. Decide what's best for you. Your revenge fantasy is foolish.

[–]anythinginc 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Those two years of separation certainly were not cockless either.

[–]redearththeory 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

3 weeks into MRP.

MRP takes months to work and things will get worse before they get better if you're doing this right.

There is no response. Nothing. Just a heart of stone. 0% change on her part.

You're right on track.

[–]Griever114 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

You sound like a shit tier male who did a few bicep curls, read 3 pages in the books and expect the world to bow down to his glory.

You are trying to unfuck a ship that has been going completely off course for YEARS. You are a fuckup and thinking you are a RP man but you are BARELY into the anger phase and are demanding results.

MONK MODE dude. Cut the shit, lift, read and really think about what you wrote. You are demanding a whole lot from a wife that is dealing with a piss poor excuse for a husband.

[–]trp_ocd 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

The red pill improves men who want to improve. If you've made oneitis your MAP, you have failed.

Own your shit and improve yourself, because you are a man who deserves at least one fucker in his life looking out for him. Make that fucker you.

[–]fuzzyface1980 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

It isn't about what she deserves. WHAT DO YOU WANT?

Divorce is always on the table. I'm sure you can find a woman much more pleasant, thinner, more sexual and 10 years younger than her.

But that's still not what this is all about. Be in it to win it. For you, not your marriage.

[–]JaneYou1gnorantSlut[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Ultimately I want her to see the errors of her ways, as I have seen mine. I want her to commit to change, as I have committed to change. I don't want her to simply not leave, I want her to start emotionally investing in the relationship as I have. I have put my feelings back out there, despite the past and the damage that has been caused. I expect nothing less from her. If she doesn't want to do that, I need her out, and to have the ability to 100% focus on my self-improvement for myself and our kids.

[–]fuzzyface1980 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Fuck the error of her ways. Fuck your feelings. Fuck your sacrifices. Don't be a faggot. You lead her

[–]stonepimpletilistsMod / Red Beret 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

would you let him lead you? It's been a giant failed congruence test his whole life.

[–]fuzzyface1980 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nope. But when he remembers where he left his balls perhaps he will learn not to be a boring victim. And then understand he did sign up to lead his family.

[–]anythinginc 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ultimately I want her to see the errors of her ways

Separating from an abusive alcoholic is not an error. Not really giving you a second chance is not an error either. If this was a female self-improvement forum we would be telling her she does NOT have to give you a second chance.

Relevant: How did you get this second chance 1.5 years ago? Did you whine and beg and plead? Or were you so fucking awesome, was your life going so well, that she got curious?

We've posted this a lot recently so why not: https://therationalmale.com/2011/10/03/war-brides/

You are very likely dead to her. That sucks, but that is hypergamy.

[–]ScurvemuchRed Beret 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

years of being unattractive mentally and physically will not be made up for in 1 month or 6 months.. and in your case, perhaps not even in 18 months.

You are a romantic in that you still think if YOU change, she will somehow forget the faggotry and change with you... women will be months behind her husband... do you want to wait 2+ years... in the hopes that she will not experience you as the unreliable, unattractive man you are?

My experience with Christian counseling is that they tell men to turn the other cheek and put in more- into her... and tell her that she magically has to do nothing and will start to feel better about the shitty life you gave her. And yes, you gave her a shitty life.

how you going to change that narrative?

[–]pullypants 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

"his morning in counseling, she victim puked all over the place, taking the worst snippets of my behavior over the past couple years and painting me with that brush top to bottom. These things are not things I do to her to make her upset. These are errors of omission, like slacking off with the house work. Chores inside the house type stuff."

That's just her rationalizing why she doesn't want you around, if you did the chores all day it'd be something else. Pay no attention to the detail, just know she finds you repulsive.

Make yourself not repulsive.

[–]zeteomegaleio 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You can't say you're doing your best to kill covert contracts when your entire post is one giant covert contract. You are doing ALL of this with expectations from her - it seems like every sentence is "I did this, but she doesn't do anything back" and "I'm changing, but she isn't losing her ego and changing too."

Her, her, her.

Even worse, you expect it all to be a magic pill that will make everything change in less than a month after years of being horribly fucked. So fucked that you guys separated for nearly 2 years at one point?

You need to stop giving a fuck about Mommy telling you that you're a good boy when you do something around the house and gain some outcome independence here. She's a hostile force impeding your progress? She won't listen to her flaws? There is only one person with frame in your household. Well, maybe up to 3 more, if your kids learned anything from her.

What are you doing to change besides reading books? According to you, the one thing you seem to actually do (besides fixing shit around the house which is the cost of entry of being a man) is show your wife love and affection... ok, did you even read anything here? Because I'm pretty sure if you did, you would know your job right now is to STFU, lift (which you didn't say a single thing about), and take care of your shit.

She doesn't deserve a "new you" because there is no "new you" yet. You're not fucking awesome. You aren't becoming awesome either because this is still a giant covert contract, and until you unfuck yourself from bitching and praying about how SHE needs to change and HER ego needs to go and it's all HER fault, you're going to continue to be a bitch.

Drop all your expectations of what you want her to be right now. There is no "deprogramming" of her. STFU about her and what she needs to do. Get your body under or over a bar full of heavy iron and start moving it up and down. Take care of your shit around the house and just keep finding stuff to be busy with. Become attractive.

[–]CountpudyoolaMod / Red Beret 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd start talking less in counseling. It's for her anyway and works in her frame. I'd start backing off of it completely.

There is NOTHING you will be able to do right, and A LOT TO complain about when a woman is NOT attracted to you.

There is NOTHING a guy can do wrong and she laughs shit off when she is attracted to you.

If you tried the wrong way this long. I'd probably put equal effort in the right way for as long for shits and giggles.

Stop with the choreplay.

Stop with meeting her "needs" with none of yours in the picture.

And I put needs in quotes, because clearly in your write up the translations was giving her affection , attention and energy.

What she NEEDS is tingles of which you are providing none.

Start building what your life would be like without her. Let her start handling all of things she'll need to when you're not around.

Are you going to fix her car, work on her appliances, buy her things when you are no longer married? If it's going to sting something loose in her brain you want her to feel it now and not when it's too late.

Our wives lives would drastically change for the unpleasant no matter how much they fuck us in the process if we were to divorce. The problem is they only see the effects it will have on us and hear the go-gettum-girl rah rah's about how great it'll be rebounding on the cock carousel.

You've got to help pull back that curtain.

Again, by focusing on you and to heck with all on her.

[–]bangorlol 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

3 weeks huh? You're early a master of RPT and deserve affection and desire from your wife, especially since you were such a shitty captain before. She should see these changes and immediately start slobbing on your knob! What the hell is wrong with her?!

But seriously, slow the fuck down. You need to read more sidebar material, the top posts in this sub, and just chill the fuck out. Yes, this sub tells you that you should see results pretty quickly, but that's assuming you're starting from zero. The truth of the matter is you're not. You're starting from -50. You're less than a beta right now and need to roll through the ranks slowly and only expect what you deserve UNTIL you're a beta, then you can start working on being an alpha. Think about it - most women don't separate from their beta husbands due to the comfort they provide. You somehow let it get bad enough that she left you, and is probably sticking around for the kids and Jesus.

Slow down. Stop expecting shit.

[–]rpnow 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've been in this situation as well, also a Christian, and also a huge pussy beta. I think you might get a head start on this stuff if you can seriously digest the following things, grieve over them, and move past them as fast as possible.

  1. She will never love you the way that you want her to love you. It's just not how it works. Biblically speaking this is the result of the fall - Eve's curse is that she would always try to take her husbands role. She "loves" you by proving to herself that you can be the leader that you are called to be, and you have failed that test for a long time.

  2. She will never "see the error of her ways" as you said in the comments. Her ego doesn't have to go. Her anger and negative emotion that you dislike so much is YOUR FUCKING FAULT.
    You say "I can say 100% that I have owned my shit" Bullshit! This is bullshit and you know it. You haven't owned this. YOU are the leader of the household. YOU are supposed to lead and love her like Christ loved the Church. YOU are supposed to be the unmoving Rock in the hurricane of her emotions. Instead, YOU were a big pussy, leaving your home care and repairs undone, drinking and a verbally abusive faggot. She is a mirror of you. She shows your weakness. OWN That. And THEN you can start to improve.

  3. She doesn't have to be your enemy. She is your wife, and she could be one of your greates allies. She can be your first mate. She needs a strong sober captain that she can trust. You are not that Captain. Start being that captain.

  4. She DOES deserve a new you. Honestly, risking hate from the rp community by saying this, she sounds like a pretty good woman. She stuck with you for 18 years of you being a fuckup. She's gorgeous, not a feminist, and expects her husband to keep the house in order. That sounds way better than some of the harpy wives we hear about here. Why are you so mad at her for being a woman? AWALT. Why are you so mad at her for being shitty when YOU created her shittyness.

  5. Fuck marriage counseling. Spend that time in the gym. Get some guy time in with your marriage counselor maybe talk about marriage over some drinks and cigars, but forget the rest.

  6. This DEAD relationship is actually quite alive. Wake up.

  7. [edited to add after I thought about it] You have a rediculous covert contract with showing affection. You think that by showing affection you are entitled to something that is unclear. Sex? Her good mood? Reciprocated affection? This will never work. You should show affection because you enjoy it, not becuase you should, or that's her love language, or whatever.

You may have been hot shit when you first got married, but I bet you are puffing it up a bit. Looking to the past is fantasy, and complaining is ego. Own your shit for real. Your wife didn't even come close to nuclear. M80 maybe.

[–]Steigertochter1 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You have been an Arse to her how long? And now you are wondering that she does not trust you yet?? Give her Time.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I love my wife. I show her affection like crazy. I get nothing in return. According to our counselor, and the Bible apparently, as I improve and meet her needs she will respond and in turn meet my needs

A very common counselor trope. All your counselor is doing is reinforcing your covert contracts and turning off your wife even more. This is one of many reasons why marriage counseling doesn't work.

You show affection because you WANT to, not because you want her to reciprocate. Wanting her to show affection back in reward for you showing affection is a COVERT CONTRACT. Get rid of it. When you scratch your dog behind the ears do you get mad when he pulls away and fails to lick your hand?

Improve for yourself and don't expect a quid-pro-quo every time you improve yourself.

like a sucker I fed into it unknowingly over the years

You are STILL feeding into it.

part of me thinks that because she has been so cold, so hostile for so long, she doesn't deserve a "new me".

More covert contracts. I have improved but she is still cold and hostile. So now I am mad because I improved and she didn't change her behavior like I expected.

I am truly 100% committed to change.

You are still committed to change FOR HER, not for you. If you were 100% committed to change for you there would not be the desperation from you to have her leave.

spiritual answer.

I believe your answer is in the Song of Songs. Read it. Chapter 12 of my book Saving a Low Sex Marriage also covers this. Basically it is Patrice O'neil- if you want to catch fish, you gotta smell like fish. If you want your current wife to behave, sometimes you gotta take a second wife- or at least put yourself into a position where you could get a second wife.