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why are mras so libertarian? (self.Negareddit)

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[–]Ratchet1332 [スコア非表示]  (14子コメント)

Because libertarianism is a fringe-conservative movement for people who believe that they shouldn't be told what to do.

Some have legitimate views, but the most vocal are whiny manchildren.

[–]nekked_snake [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

I used to identify a lot as a libertarian because the core principle behind it that you should be able to do anything as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else resonates with me but I stopped associating with them after a few years because I couldn't stand how an ideology based off of an idea like that was so tolerant and defensive of so much racism and sexism. I can't seem to find an ideology that works for me and it sucks.

[–]Ratchet1332 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That's why I just go with a scale of liberal-conservative on most things.

[–]Thats_Good_Stupid [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

>I can't seem to find an ideology that works for me

LibSoc, comrade.

[–]nekked_snake [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Is that liberal socialist or libertarian socialist? And isn't libertarian socialist just another name for Anarchist?

[–]Suineder [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

LibSoc is short for libertarian socialist, yes.

And isn't libertarian socialist just another name for Anarchist?

Pretty much.

[–]nekked_snake [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Socialism sort of implies collective identity though doesn't it? One thing that drew me to libertarianism is me being a really big individualist. I have been sort of dwindling away from my attitude that capitalism is good because I've been growing up I guess and actually working and meeting people less privileged than me but I don't like some of the ideas I see echoed by a lot of left anarchists, like "de-colonization" which is, I think like, forcing white people out of certain communities and making those communities reject everything related to western civilization; not that I'm a "won't someone think of the white people" type person, I'm all for punching up and all but I just don't like the attitude behind people being forced to be a part of a culture and reject things just for being from other cultures... like if that makes sense? Like I said I'm an individualist so I think tribalism like that is one of the biggest problems in the world and it's restricting of one's potential self.

I probably sound really ignorant of what de-colonization is or if it's even something a lot of anarchists agree on, so sorry for that.

[–]ASigIAm213 [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

There are two kinds of libertarians.

One studied and practiced either law or economics and became deeply distrustful of state intervention. They can be wrong, but they're generally well-informed and not awful.

The other is basically extending their rebellious teenage years at the ballot box.

[–]Ratchet1332 [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

The problem with libertarianism right now is that they're basically being represented publicly as the latter.

I'm sure I know a number of libertarians, the problem is the ones I definitely know are libertarian have made it abundantly and obnoxiously clear.

I know it's anecdotal but every libertarian I know formerly supported Bernie, hates "Shillary", loves guns, loves weed, wants free college, and hates cops. Not like just dislikes them, but has an extreme problem with authority. The people that, if they don't immediately begin arguing with police when stopped, start reciting that "am I being detained" stuff and are completely surprised that the cops are no longer being relatively friendly or that they always get tickets or fines. Not saying all cops are great, but still.

All this tells me about a portion of libertarian voters is that they just hate having to do things they don't want to and are just an iota away from declaring themselves to be sovereign citizens.

And they call themselves liberal.

[–]Brodo00095 [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

You know some politically weird people lol

[–]Ratchet1332 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

They're the libertarians you find on Reddit: only concerned with their life and their ability to speak their mind without opposition and a propensity for posting tasty memes about sheeple and conspiracy theories.

[–]Brodo00095 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Idk, I spend a decent amount of time on /r/libertarian, and very, very few would fit that description. There are some former Bernie supporters probably, but very few. I hardly ever see Shillary, especially compared to places like s4p, conservative subs, the_donald, and even /r/politics. I almost never see support for free college, quite the opposite actually. And I pretty much never see the intense anti-cop "am i being detained" stuff.

I know a lot of people on this sub hate libertarians which is fine. and /r/libertarian is rather large so that description probably describes a decent amount of them perfectly, but it doesn't seem like a justified stereotype.

Now, /r/anarcho_capitalism is a whole different story. Definitely doesn't meet your description, but a lot of them are IMO terrible, terrible people for entirely different reasons.

[–]Ratchet1332 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I agree with ancaps, they're terrible.

And I know libertarians at large are fine and decent and all that jazz. I don't necessarily agreeing with them politically, and that's fine. People have different opinions. I'm just talking about the very vocal portion of the group, the ones that flood Facebook and some parts of Reddit; the shitty part of the party.

Whiny manchildren flock to libertarianism like racists flock to republicanism. That's not to say either party are inherently bad, just they're where certain groups of terrible people share a similar ideology with others.

[–]Brodo00095 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Gotcha. Yeah i browse /r/enoughlibertarianspam enough to know how much stupid shit libertarians say on Facebook and Reddit.

[–]MercuryCobra [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Even the well-informed ones can often have glaring blind spots. Libertarianism has a bad habit of ignoring or not recognizing power structures that exist outside economics or the law. Or if they do they often, in my view misguidedly, assume that those structures are products of economics or the law rather than the other way around.

And despite being economically well-versed they also have a bad habit of ignoring the well-understood economics of externalities. In a perfect world regulation is designed to internalize these externalities. But while I think there's a lot of room to argue that regulation may not do this effectively, most libertarians I argue with tend to just double down that all regulation is bad.

Which is all to say that in my interactions with libertarians, even the well-meaning, well-informed ones tend to come off as a little disconnected from reality.

[–]anticapitalistotter [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

you would think someone who believes in "personal liberty" wouldn't care about what women choose to do with their bodies and how they dressed

[–]lacedemonianWarning: Links posted by this user may lead to TV Tropes [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Maybe they believe in having the personal liberty to oppress whomever.

[–]AngryDM [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The internet-tough-guy power fantasy of a lawless wasteland ruled by rich white men appeals to MRAs, as does the lack of rules about raping children.

[–]VelvetElvis [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Because YOU'RE NOT MY REAL DAD. YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!