上位 200 件のコメント全て表示する 222

[–]Alpha And Omegaitsamealuigia 59ポイント60ポイント  (4子コメント)

I think you more or less just summarized the reason why this sub exists.

[–]Roman CatholicFrozenTrident 27ポイント28ポイント  (28子コメント)

I'm tired of the reddit Catholic phenomenon of putting quotes around everything you don't like.

[–]ChristianEACCES 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

I really hope I've recovered from this "cold" by tomorrow.

[–]Roman CatholicMadoradus[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm "confused" about your "comment." What exactly did you "mean"?

[–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

[removed]

    [–]Christianruizbujc[M] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Violation of Rule 1.

    [–]Roman CatholicPlasmaBurnz 2ポイント3ポイント  (18子コメント)

    It's not that they aren't liked, it's that the words are inappropriate for the ones describing themselves that way. The Progressives have wildly regressive effects on society. A 'LGBT Christian' is hardly Christian in any significant sense as they clearly aren't even adhering to the bible anymore. How people describe themselves and what they actually are can be quite different and quotes are easier than writing 'self-described' in front of everything.

    [–]_phoenix_king_ 0ポイント1ポイント  (16子コメント)

    I came here from the SRS post, but only b/c I lurk the subreddit out of morbid curiosity. I'm definitely not an SJW. I'm also not a Christian despite being raised in a Christian household. So now that the full disclosure is over with ...

    Suppose a gay person is a Christian and even believes that homosexual acts are a sin, but sometimes engages in them anyway. How is this fundamentally different than someone that commits adultery or lies?

    I'll accept your answer without any further debate. I am genuinely curious.

    [–]Confessional Lutheranof_skies_and_seas 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    It's fundamentally different because (most) adulterers or liars would recognize that they have committed a grave sin to God, and repent. There is no adultery-acceptance movement in Christianity, thank God. If someone denied that their adultery was a sin, insisted that the church's obedience to scripture in condemning their sin was "hateful", and banded together with other adulterers to change church doctrine.... then it would be the same as the LGBT situation.

    [–]pilgrim-in-ashes 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

    If you wanted to look at scripture I would point you to Romans 7

    Rom 7:11  For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. Rom 7:12  So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. Rom 7:13  Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. Rom 7:14  For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. Rom 7:15  For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Rom 7:16  Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. Rom 7:17  So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. Rom 7:18  For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. Rom 7:19  For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. Rom 7:20  Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

    Paul here faces some unknown struggle. The Apostle Paul sins. It's right there in the text. But there is a distinction that other posters touched on here. Paul understand what sin is. Paul Hates this sin. Paul doesn't want to do this sin. Yet Paul ultimately finds refuge in Christ.

    Earlier Paul mentions

    Rom 6:1  What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? Rom 6:2  By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?

    This coming fresh off Romans 5 which really amplifies grace.

    There is this ying and yang. I love God's law. I love God's word. I love God. I understand my nature. I understand the need for a savior and yet here I am sinning. Perhaps it's my anger, or lust, or covetousness. Maybe I am not putting God first and something else is taking His place in my life. That's the heart of the first commandment right there.

    Yet we, like Paul, aren't promoting it. I am not a "covetous christian" or "alcoholic Christian" or "adulteress Christian". I am a blood bought saint. Identifying as a mix of those things is really no different then Israel in the book of Judges that knew God but yet took on these other practices.

    [–]_phoenix_king_ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Also mods: Not that you need permission, but if my comment does not follow the guidelines of this subreddit feel free to delete it. I am not a part of this community and do not mean to impose.

    [–]Child of GodPetililPuff 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Suppose a gay person is a Christian and even believes that homosexual acts are a sin, but sometimes engages in them anyway. How is this fundamentally different than someone that commits adultery or lies?

    This isn't the issue. If a Christian sincerely struggles with homosexuality but acknowledges that it is a sin and strives to remove themselves from it, I would welcome them as anyone else.

    The issue is with these "LGBT Christians" who are proud to be gay. They are relishing in their sinfulness - which is not something a Christian should do. Anything that is sin is something we should strive to remove ourselves from, not something that we should openly pride ourselves in without remorse.

    [–]_phoenix_king_ 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    That answer makes a lot of sense. Thank you!

    [–]Assemblies of Godstarchaser57 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    There you go.

    [–]ChristianGabriel_Aurelius 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I think you're being genuine, so I'll give this a shot.

    The difference, as it always will be, is within the heart of the individual. If they truly are repentant, they turn from sin, or at least STRUGGLE with the sin they commit, acknowledging that it IS sin. "God can deal with dirt, He can't do anything with hardness of heart" kind of thing.

    From what I've seen, an "LGBTQ Christian" (as they are apparently referred to now) does not agree that their actions are sinful, and thus do not consider themselves wrong before God in these areas, when they are specifically named as sinful in the Bible.

    I personally know an individual that has turned from his homosexual desires in an act of obedience to God. It's the individual's heart that relies on the Holy Spirit to CHANGE them that makes the difference.

    [–]_phoenix_king_ 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Thanks for answering. I understand now. It isn't the nature of sin itself so much as denying it is a sin in the first place.

    [–]ChristianGabriel_Aurelius 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Well, it's really "both and".

    Sin separates us from God, so that's not good.

    Denying something that's sinful is a sin is a further deception, so that's also a sin, and that separates us from God, so that's not good either.

    So it IS the nature of sin itself being wrong, but also denial of sin being sin that is also wrong.

    I think you already got that from what I wrote, I'm just being particular to be clear. And I'm being that particular because there isn't wiggle room for any misinterpretation. God sees all hearts - He knows how all hearts play out - that's why He's the perfect judge. I'm truly grateful that no created being is going to judge me (or anyone else for that matter)!

    [–]Roman CatholicPlasmaBurnz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It's quite similar in effect that mortal sins are mortal sins. Everyone messes up and everyone needs redemption through Christ. Admitting sin is sin and working toward avoiding it is the path that all living Christians are on.

    I suppose I should clarify that when I said 'LGBT Christian' I was referring to people who deny the sinfulness of homosexual acts, accept SSM, and generally go along with the Secularists. OP referred to them in the topic of this thread. I didn't mean any Christian with a sex specialization disorder.

    [–]Secular Humanistlannister80 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    How is this fundamentally different than someone that commits adultery or lies?

    It's not. EVERYONE is a sinner.

    [–]Atheistgonnacrushit 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    So would you say "a lying Christian" is a Christian? Or the problem only occurs when talking about homosexuality

    [–]ChristianUr_BreathingManually 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Now that's something I hadn't noticed yet

    [–]Javalavadingdong 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Its like the ((((echo)))), except less funny

    [–]Christian -- will probably become OrthodoxSwissMercenary 17ポイント18ポイント  (7子コメント)

    It's been said many times that /r/Christianity is a sub about Christianity. /r/TrueChristian is a sub for (conservative) Christians.

    [–]ChristianRepentant_Revenant 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Is this sub really conservative, or is it just that comparing to the other sub makes it look that way?

    [–]Christian -- will probably become OrthodoxSwissMercenary 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Conservative in the sense that here, the official standard for being a Christian is affirming the Nicene Creed, including the Trinity. And most people here (maybe not all) will oppose gay marriage and abortion, for example. Expect backlash towards anything that could be called "liberal theology".

    I haven't really been on /r/Christianity, but every now and then you'll see someone here rant about it being too liberal and how they were downvoted for their conservative opinions, so this sub is the more conservative one.

    [–]ChristianGabriel_Aurelius 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It's bad. I actually came here from there because of what they are doing. I was stunned by many of the posts and was like, "Wait, wha...?"

    Grateful this forum exists.

    [–]Secular Humanistlannister80 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Is this sub really conservative

    Yes

    [–]ChristianUr_BreathingManually 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I know and I hate it when they say that. It's pretty stupid honestly

    [–]forg3 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    The saying is a lie and I am sick of hearing it.

    [–]forg3 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I really hate this saying and I am now calling it out!

    It is a deceptive lie and nothing more. If it were really true, then the content and subject matter of both subs would be vastly different. However anyone who spends some time on both subs will find that the subject matter and topics are basically identical. All that is different is the predominant view point. So stop spreading this lie.

    [–]Roman CatholicPaedragGaidin 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Basically, the problem is threefold.

    1. It's Reddit. Reddit skews exceedingly liberal in most places, and exceedingly alt-right in some others. Large subreddits are prone to falling on one side of that extreme or the other. Although /r/Christianity tends to skew leftward, there are quite a lot of theologically conservative Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox holding the line in there. I recently became active again over there after a long absence. It's very frustrating at times. Compounding this are various policies at the sub which basically allow anyone to call themselves "Christian," coupled with a needlessly complex flair system.

    2. /r/Christianity has another problem in that it's the largest and best-known Christian sub (and yes, it's about Christianity, not specifically for Christians), so it functions as a lightning rod for the trolls, troublemakers, and haters who populate Reddit by the millions. The mods do a pretty good job of taking care of this stuff, but some always slips through.

    3. Redditors as a group are collectively incapable of using the search function or checking the FAQs before posting new threads. Thus, a large percentage of discussions on /r/Christianity involve "dead-horse topics" where the same arguments about controversial issues are hashed out endlessly and no one ever learns anything new. Examples include "can I be a Christian and [X behavior]," abortion, premarital sex, masturbation, homosexuality, aliens, marijuana, and "are [Y group] Christians?" Once you've answered the alien thread a few dozen times they all seem to blend together into a bubbling stew of emulsified antagonism.

    [–]Christianpm_me_judge_reinhold 26ポイント27ポイント  (3子コメント)

    You'll likely be better received in this sub as we are more conservative, but don't forget that some Christians are still growing. These lib Christians are not hopeless. They are misguided.

    [–]ChristianUr_BreathingManually 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Misguided is one way of putting it. There's definitely a few that are completely deceived.

    [–]Latin Catholic (Confirmanda)-Mochaccina- 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Right and we should pray for them.

    [–]Reformeddavidjricardo 13ポイント14ポイント  (4子コメント)

    /r/Christianity is definitely a different place than /r/TrueChristian. What you need to understand is that the demographics there are pretty much exactly what you would expect to find on a subreddit about Christianity: about 45% atheist or other non-Christian, about 15% Catholic or Orthodox and about 40% Protestant. Of the Protestants, they tend to lean Progressive (and some actually Liberals) but there are definitely some traditionalist/conservatives there as well. Denominationally it's all over the map: Anglicans, Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, Pentecostals, you name it.

    The type of discussion tends to be about what you'd expect from those demographics. Actual Heresy (like the stuff denounced in the Creeds) is pretty uniformly rejected there, but you'll find lots of support for progressive positions. I think it can still be useful place to go, but you've got to know how to talk to a pluralistic audience and be prepared to take some downvotes if you talk about subjects that are controversial on that sub.

    [–]Eastern Orthodox Inquirercurious_about_jesus 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Actual Heresy (like the stuff denounced in the Creeds) is pretty uniformly rejected there,

    I got downvoted for defending that the apostles and early christians believed in the trinity.

    [–]Orthodox Jew - Mod /r/Judaismnamer98 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Link?

    [–]Roman Catholicedessasail 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I can't remember the exact thread, but I do remember seeing that so I'll at least corroborate his story.

    [–]ChristianSilentRansom 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I left /r/Christianity due to the insane amount of drama there. I don't agree with some of the stuff posted here (I'm left of center on most things), but at least people are relatively chill.

    [–]Roman CatholicPluniaZ 11ポイント12ポイント  (31子コメント)

    That sub can be very frustrating. It definitely has an anti-Christian agenda. But we can use it for good, and while complying with its rules, preach the truth there in love.

    Plus a lot of newcomers visit there frequently with sincere questions, and it gives us a good opportunity to reach them.

    [–]Roman Catholicedessasail 15ポイント16ポイント  (26子コメント)

    I absolutely hate it there, but it's one of the only two places I can go for Christianity. The fact that nearly half of the posters there are atheists is very telling though.

    [–]ChristianUr_BreathingManually 10ポイント11ポイント  (15子コメント)

    The atheists run that sub.

    [–]Evangelicalleftboot 5ポイント6ポイント  (14子コメント)

    Don't they have even have an athiest moderator?

    [–]Atheistwambotron 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Do you really think an atheist cannot moderate discussions on a religious forum? Look at the rules of this sub and tell me you don't think a non-believer could handle that.

    [–]Evangelicalleftboot 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

    It's not about moderating skills. It's a Christian forum. Why it be run by anyone else but Christians?

    Don't you think it weird that an athiest is signing up to be a moderator of a Christian forum?

    [–]Anglican CommunionIm_just_saying 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I think that's where you miss it - it isn't a "Christian forum" (as in, a forum that is Christian; a forum for Christians), it is a "Christianity forum" - a forum about all aspects of Christianity; and non-Christians can contribute to that as freely as Christians.

    [–]Atheistwambotron 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    No. People of any background can contribute.

    [–]ChristianUr_BreathingManually 0ポイント1ポイント  (8子コメント)

    Yes, I'm not sure they have many Christian mods. Last I checked they had an atheist, a Jew, and I think even someone who practices islam(?).

    [–]US_Hiker 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

    Last I checked they had an atheist, a Jew, and I think even someone who practices islam(?).

    You must not have checked in a while.

    They do have one atheist.

    The Jewish moderator has not been a mod for nearly two years now, I think.

    There has never been a Muslim moderator.

    All others are very committed Christians.

    [–]ChristianUr_BreathingManually -1ポイント0ポイント  (6子コメント)

    As I said, "last I checked". If they're committed to anything it's their own agenda and not what the bible actually teaches. You guys have mods, let's just call her "Rev", who target and harass users they don't like by removing all their posts. You have users who mock and belittle Christianity with impunity while posting with scripture 'doesn't provide context' or its 'rude' and gets removed. The language there is just as raunchy as if I went to r/atheism. I'm not going to say they're not Christians as its not my place, I just believe r/Christianity would be radically different if the mods were as you say.

    [–]US_Hiker 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Don't think I'm a fan of moderation there...I've been banned for being too critical of the moderators there because I have higher standards for the sub than they do.

    RevMelissa also is not guilty of what you accuse her of.

    And yes, they are very committed Christians. That doesn't mean they agree with you or with me, though. They also operate under the strictures of the lead moderator and what he wants the sub to be. What he wants the sub to be is somewhat wrong and he goes about it very wrongly, but it is what it is.

    If you don't like it, make your own or stay places like this and help them thrive.

    [–]ChristianJavidanOfTheWest 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

    I really can't stand those with the 'secular humanist' icon on that sub. They are almost always the first to reply, the most upvoted, the most condescending, they always have to refute everything, and feel offended by literally everything that can be remotely interpreted as 'not in line with common descent'.

    Those with the 'atheist' icon are far less invasive and condescending.

    [–]Roman Catholicedessasail 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

    'Christian Atheist' bothers me the most. It's an outright denial of the absolute most important part of Christianity while also claiming to be a part of the faith.

    [–]ChristianJavidanOfTheWest 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It took me a while before I gained enough interest to look up what that even meant. So they deny Jesus, but they believe that Christian morals are a better thing to strive for that no Christianity at all, right?

    [–]Nazarenecansasdon 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    To be completely honest many professed Christians are actually Christian Atheists by behavior, so at least that flair is honest.

    [–]Roman CatholicPluniaZ 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

    If so many atheists go there, it's because they know there is something to Christianity.

    [–]Roman Catholicedessasail 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    There's very little Christianity on that sub to be had. These comics were fairly spot on with a few little problems (the anti-Catholicism in one was pretty meme worthy).

    [–]ChristianJavidanOfTheWest 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    People like to argue, the Atheists on there like to win. Neither side can be proven to be true, but the side of the atheists is believed to be true even by a lot of Christians on there, so they often 'win' with ease. I believe that is why so many Atheists come there with no intention of ever even remotely considering Christianity.

    [–]Atheistwambotron 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I'm atheist and have a multireddit with a ton of religions on it (this one, islam, wicca, satanism, etc). I like to see what people believe. It has nothing to do with any of them drawing me in or thinking there is "something" to any of them.

    Hell, there is a ton of misinformation even amongst branches of each of these about what each other are about. If they bothered listening to what the people actually believe, they might have a different view on them. (just look at some protestants who actually believe the Catholic church is run by Satan)

    [–]Roman CatholicPluniaZ 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    What is the volume of atheist posting on other religious subreddits compared to /Christianity?

    [–]Atheistwambotron 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    You'd have to ask Reddit admins

    [–]BaptistCSTDude777 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Good luck with that. Even the tiniest amount of Biblical truth will be dismissed and you'll be downvoted to oblivion.

    [–]ChristianUr_BreathingManually 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Worse yet they'll argue with you

    [–]Child of GodPetililPuff 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yep. But I find they're not very good at it.

    [–]ChristianJavidanOfTheWest 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Perfect example of why someone would even bother to argue about these subjects. It's even fellow Christians who are doing the arguing.

    [–]Roman Catholicdarkstalker__kaathe 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Ehh, what can you do. People hate having their sins called out to their face and react with anger. In their hearts they know they are wrong and feel guilty, that's the guilt that pushes the volatile response when you openly speak they are wrong.

    [–]ChristianRepentant_Revenant 14ポイント15ポイント  (8子コメント)

    I don't like the term "progressive," either. What makes someone think that liberal ideology = progress? Do they think that none of those ideals existed at other points in history?

    [–]Roman CatholicMadoradus[S] 8ポイント9ポイント  (7子コメント)

    They worship at the altar of Progress. Any Progress is good Progress. Ironically, historical progressives work to control narcotics, restrict abortion, etc - today we just have liberals with laissez-faire social policies.

    [–]ChristianRepentant_Revenant 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

    At some point in history, someone said "Look at all these pagans running around with no moral restrictions! We need to implement ethics for progress."

    Now they're getting rid of moral temerence and acting like they're progressing, when really they're just back to how things were before.

    [–]Roman CatholicMadoradus[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Indeed. Progress is now apparently reverting back to barbarism.

    [–]BaptistRatherBurnThanFade 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Progress to what? What are they progressing toward? It is a word that infers positive qualities regardless of the reality.

    [–]Lutheran (LCMS)Philip_Schwartzerdt 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    It's also what C. S. Lewis called "chronological snobbery", the idea that current ideas, practices, things, etc are better or smarter or more advanced simply because they have occurred later in time. I'd say this is most commonly seen in comments like "How can people still believe/do things like that in the 21st century?" or "Don't you know it's not the 1950s anymore?" as if the mere passage of time has changed the nature of morality.

    [–]Atheistwambotron 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    /u/Madoradus just did this exact thing when he said

    Progress is now apparently reverting back to barbarism.

    Whether something is better or worse is completely subjective. People who think the ideals professed in the constitution are more important than those in the bible will obviously think treating everyone as equals regardless of sexual orientation is better, and those who are firm believers in biblical teachings will be the opposite.

    There are also people who have the romantic view of the noble savage who are the opposite of chronological snobs.

    [–]Lutheran (LCMS)CowboyBigBoss 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    How can people still believe/do things like that in the 21st century

    B-but it's C U R R E N T Y E A R !

    [–]BaptistRatherBurnThanFade 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

    You are not the first person to notice this and these posts appear in this sub all the time. Don't be surprised if you get kickback just for that reason; this post is seen frequently. I remember the last time I read anything from there. Literally asking if lying was okay. I referenced John 8:32 only. After getting downvoted and poor reasoning for the downvotes (it is just a verse, no context, ambiguous, not sure how it relates) I stopped following the sub. It is a place for non-believers and "loose Christians" to make up their own theology/strawman and reasoning for why it is okay for them to do whatever you want. I can't remember a single post that I made that was majority scripture that didn't suffer from majority downvotes. They don't want to know about Christianity, they want to do what they want and feel good about it.

    [–]ChristianEACCES 9ポイント10ポイント  (7子コメント)

    I'm sick of this kind of lazy poopy-posting that happens here.

    [–]Roman CatholicMadoradus[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

    So make posts that are good.

    [–]Roman CatholicStari_tradicionalist 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

    The thing is that we could complain about /r/Christianity every month. It gets tiresome.

    If you use search function, you will find some of those.

    [–]ChristianUr_BreathingManually 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I shouldn't fan the fire but honestly, how can you not? That place is rediculous and this is a place to share your experiences with actual like minded believers.

    [–]Roman CatholicStari_tradicionalist 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I agree. If you can stomach bad theology go there, otherwise stay here.

    [–]AtheistEbonShadow 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

    It common among this sub reddit, I've seen it over the last few years come in cycles.

    [–]ChristianCroesgadwr 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It's a legitimate criticism, even if an over played one. I'm sure OP didn't realise.

    [–]ChristianJavidanOfTheWest 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I just came from /r/Christianity as well, and almost every day I spend on there, I nearly post my 'goodbye' post, although nobody would care so I never bother. I want to say that barely any of them actually believe, but I shouldn't.

    I truly despise the sub. It's sickening to see so many people who claim to be Christians not only completely deny creation, the fall, and the flood. But they try so hard to justify their false ideas of scripture. What's worse is that they always convince others to believe their lies as well.

    I remember that a while ago, there was a thread about someone who was very depressed. And another Christian wrote a very politically correct and uplifting message. Then there was an atheist who replied with how he should not try to comfort people with a lie. I replied to that guy saying that 'now' was not the time to start an argument about that subject. He replied with "when someone is sick, you should not give them poison". I replied that his words were more poisonous than religion could ever be. He got upvoted while literally calling Christianity poison, I got downvoted for pointing out how his ego was more important to him than the wellbeing of another person. I was so disgusted with the sub on that day.

    A quick look through my controversial post history makes it apparent that I'm not in it for the karma, but what also angers me is that my assumption based on scripture is being down voted as much as it is upvoted.

    What I also don't like is that this post has almost half of the karma it's far-fetched reply has.

    I've been part of TrueChristian for quite a while, and never really have any problem with anyone here. I also almost always get upvotes here.

    [–][削除されました]  (8子コメント)

    [removed]

      [–]Latin Catholic (Confirmanda)-Mochaccina- 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

      Exactly. Not everything that's right will give you the warm fuzzies, sometimes it'll feel awful, but we must do what is right and call sin, sin. It's easier to just give into anything that does feel warm and fuzzy, letting emotion overtake what's logical and rational, and that's what we see over there. I love your posts over at the other sub, by the way, very spot on.

      [–]Roman CatholicDrDankMemesSJ 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

      Glad I have some fans. I've made myself a lot of enemies with my style but the anti-Christian "Christianity" sickens me to the core and I feel I need to witness to the truth no matter how many egos get bruised in the process.

      [–]ChristianUr_BreathingManually 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Keep doing your thing, it's always refreshing to see people with some biblical integrity take the word to some of these heretical views.

      [–]Roman Catholicedessasail 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

      tbh you're one of the only two Catholics on reddit I can say I'd probably enjoy talking with irl. The others usually fall into meh, or smug liberal style (even if they're conservative on certain issues) that I dislike.

      [–]Latin Catholic (Confirmanda)-Mochaccina- 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

      I hope to be another one you can like one day!

      [–]Roman Catholicedessasail 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      You're not one of the ones I dislike so it's possible I suppose. I doubt I'd want to neck myself talking with you irl like I would with some of the other ones.

      [–]Christianruizbujc[M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Rule 1 violation.

      [–]Associate Reformed Presbyterianthekidbjj 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I find it funny that anytime someone on r/Christianity posts a bible verse in response to a question its inevitably downvoted. Like, the Bible is sort of a big deal.

      [–]Secular Humanistlannister80 2ポイント3ポイント  (11子コメント)

      Are we going to have tags for other types of sinners next?

      Like divorced Christians?

      [–]Latin Catholic (Confirmanda)-Mochaccina- 0ポイント1ポイント  (10子コメント)

      Why would someone have a flair for divorce? Make no sense.

      [–]Secular Humanistlannister80 1ポイント2ポイント  (9子コメント)

      I dunno, why not? "I'm a proud, divorced Christian!"

      If divorce was maligned by American Christians as much as homosexuality is, you bet there would be an "out and proud" divorced Christian culture.

      [–]Latin Catholic (Confirmanda)-Mochaccina- 0ポイント1ポイント  (8子コメント)

      I don't see how that would ever happen. Why would anyone be proud then if they aren't already?

      It definitely wouldn't be something of pride in my Church. We're very against divorce. Yes, I'm an American.

      [–]Secular Humanistlannister80 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

      Why would anyone be proud then if they aren't already?

      People only get "proud" when they're persecuted. If being gay was seen as being as "normal" as divorce in the US, there would be no gay pride parades. They'd just be part of the normal fabric of life, unremarkable.

      [–]Latin Catholic (Confirmanda)-Mochaccina- 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

      Uh okay..but divorce isn't anything happy to be celebrated.... I can see your point about the other thing. I'm proud to let people know I'm a Catholic candidate.

      [–]Secular Humanistlannister80 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

      Uh okay..but divorce isn't anything happy to be celebrated....

      How many divorced people do you know? For many, it's relief and celebration rolled into one (getting away from the toxic person).

      I'm mainly saying that people get the "loud and proud" attitude when they just want to be treated like everyone else (i.e. not a second class citizen). Once they are treated like everyone else, the "loud and proud" fades away.

      I can see your point about the other thing. I'm proud to let people know I'm a Catholic candidate.

      Wait, are you implying that Catholics are persecuted in the US (in this day and age, not 100 years ago)?

      [–]Latin Catholic (Confirmanda)-Mochaccina- 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

      I'm not saying persecuted anymore here in the U.S. but we are a minority, we're proud of who we are, and why shouldn't we be? Sure, we get lots of grief from particular denominations of Protestants and your lot but it's just people being jerks. It wasn't a hundred years ago, it was last century even towards towards the fifties. My family was discriminated against even then when they'd come over fifty or so years before. Now, people just ridicule, shout insults, interrupt our Masses occasionally. Overseas, beheaded in a first world country occasionally.

      [–]Secular Humanistlannister80 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

      I'm not saying persecuted anymore here in the U.S. but we are a minority, we're proud of who we are, and why shouldn't we be?

      Fair enough! As a random godless guy from the north, I never gave much thought to Catholics being persecuted in the last several decades.

      It wasn't a hundred years ago, it was last century even towards towards the fifties. My family was discriminated against even then when they'd come over fifty or so years before.

      I thought Kennedy being elected was pretty much the end of it. Then again, my wife lived in the deep south for a few years (high school age) and Catholics were very far and few between, and that was only 20 or so years ago.

      Now, people just ridicule, shout insults, interrupt our Masses occasionally.

      Yikes, really? Are these people super-evangelicals? I mean, you're the "original" Christians, for crying out loud!

      [–]Latin Catholic (Confirmanda)-Mochaccina- 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Yes, I think so. It happened last year, a group of fundamentalist Protestants who are ex-Muslim stormed our Parishes last December, interrupting Masses to throw pamphlets at Parishioners, holding signs and violently yelling about repenting and turning to Jesus..which is what we're at Mass for.

      I think things did get a lot better all over the country after President Kennedy, but with the Bible Belt and all I doubt we'll ever see much difference. From what I've heard, Catholics are treated pretty badly, and constantly proselytized at. I've heard of people spitting at our Parishes and Cathedrals, and our clergy. Being called a member of the Whore of Babylon never gets old.

      I'm not saying we suffer worse than LGBTQIA+ but I can understand.

      [–]Episcopal ChurchEvanYork 8ポイント9ポイント  (5子コメント)

      What's with all the quote marks?

      I mean it's a problem on Reddit in general but it's absurd that a Christian subreddit doesn't allow Christian conservative viewpoints.

      The sub is predominately liberal, but there are plenty of conservatives who post there. As a generalization, people don't get downvoted for believing that homosexuality is sinful or whatever else, they get downvoted for being rude.

      Are we going to have tags for other types of sinners next?

      You're making some huge, dumb generalizations man. You believe that homosexuality is a sin: so do some of these people. I personally know at least two people on this subreddit who identify as gay. Are they sinning for admitting that they are who they are, or are you just making assumptions?

      I frankly can't see the difference between a "Christian" who believes all sin is just fine and dandy, and an atheist.

      You know, you really shouldn't say "all sin" when you really just mean LGBT+ stuff. Just be honest with us man.

      Christianity isn't just a team that you declare for, there are rules and beliefs that you actually have to follow and believe in.

      That's a nice opinion, but the reality is that what these rules and beliefs are is debated and has been debated for the entirety of Christian history. The debate used to be about the trinity, now it's about LGBT+ issues. It'll run it's course, just like everything else does. But in the meantime, you shouldn't be so eager to question the sincerity of other people's faith.

      [–]ChristianUr_BreathingManually 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

      People don't get downvoted for being rude in r/Christianity, they get downvoted for being biblical. I've been cursed out by a self proclaimed Christian for suggesting Christians shouldn't* curse and use harsh language. I was downvoted, he was upvoted. I've been downvoted for using scripture because it's 'rude' to use Gods word, while simultaneously being called names. It doesn't matter how nicely you word it.

      [–]InMySafeSpace 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      I've been cursed out by a self proclaimed Christian for suggesting Christians don't curse and use harsh language.

      Well I mean that's a pretty clear way to prove you wrong

      [–]Universal ReconciliationistTwistedDrum5 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Can you link me to when you were down voted for using scripture? Maybe you were rude about it?

      [–]ChristianPistis- 4ポイント5ポイント  (9子コメント)

      Yeah, the rainbow cross is the biggest oxymoron I have ever seen, I find it quite disgusting.

      Like Christ said: Pick up your cross, shout out to the world how proud you are of your sins, and follow Me.

      [–]Had a slice of humble pieManOfTheInBetween 7ポイント8ポイント  (8子コメント)

      I used the rainbow cross with flair that read "LGBT: Let God Be True - Leviticus 18:22". It took a matter of minutes before I was banned.

      [–]ChristianPistis- 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

      Wow, I like that, did you challenge the ban. I have challenged several bans and got reinstated. I find they tend to be quite prejudice in their moderation, but relatively fair if you call them out on it.

      [–]Had a slice of humble pieManOfTheInBetween 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

      I challenged the ban and the compromise was that I could use the flair statement but without their precious rainbow cross.

      [–]Christianruizbujc 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Well, yeah ... it's flat out mockery. Humorous and clever though it may be, I can see why they would take offense to that and consider it bannable. Even so, they don't own a symbol that God gave us.

      [–]Had a slice of humble pieManOfTheInBetween 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Fair enough.

      [–]ChristianUr_BreathingManually 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      They don't want you blaspheming their god

      [–]Child of GodPetililPuff 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      They don't want you blaspheming their god, satan

      FTFY

      [–]ChristianGabriel_Aurelius 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Stealing this, but using Romans 3:4 as the reference verse. Should be a T shirt.

      https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+3%3A4&version=NIV

      [–]Fromgre 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Why does this surprise you? There are 100's of different Christian denominations, 100's of different opinions on the bible. Yours is not the only one.

      [–]conrad_w 3ポイント4ポイント  (9子コメント)

      Uggh yeah. It really sucks that Christianity was started by a guy who told us to love our neighbours, that what we do to the least of us we also do to him, that the way we will be recognised is by our love.

      It's really difficult to hear the guy who told us to dutifully pay taxes, even those we disagree with. Who told us to challenge prejudice in all of its forms. Who told us that all children are precious. Who saw that the widow's mite was more onerous that the gold of rich men.

      It must be hard to hear other fathers of the church preach humility, patience, peace. That evil be repaid with kindness, not fear. Or the wisdom of the Old Testament that tells us that we should remember our own persecution and exploitation and to never do likewise to others.

      It must be hard, because Christianity is progressive. It is revolutionary. It is joyful and it is dutiful. It calls us to be better than we were, no matter how imperfect. It calls us to be creative, multiplying the love we are given, and giving it liberally

      [–]ChristianUr_BreathingManually -1ポイント0ポイント  (8子コメント)

      You don't liberally give your love to the same gender if that's what you're implying.

      [–]Lutheranmundanehaiku 1ポイント2ポイント  (8子コメント)

      Reddit as a whole is extremely liberal. Is this common knowledge new to you?

      Quickly looking at your post history you got a lot more negative posts in /r/MapPorn than you do in /r/christianity for posting your thoughts on homosexuality. At least it's not the other way around.

      Homosexuality is a touchy subject. And unfortunately you have to be more delicate discussing it to avoid getting downvoted.

      [–]ChristianUr_BreathingManually -2ポイント-1ポイント  (7子コメント)

      Why? Let them downvote. Homosexuality is a sin and their very souls are on the line.

      [–]Lutheranmundanehaiku 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

      The OP was complaining about downvotes. I was telling him how to not get downvoted.

      [–]Charismatickristina_kim 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

      You don't go to hell for being gay.

      You go to hell for not believing.

      [–]ChristianUr_BreathingManually 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Yes, but if you're unwilling to repent and turn away from being gay/other sin, you might not be saved in the first place. Being Christian doesn't give you a license to sin.

      [–]Charismatickristina_kim -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I would really hesitate to say so, because so many other believers die in a state of belief but unrepentance. Now, I am not affirming homosexuality, and I am not saying that you can practice sin and still go to heaven - but if what you are saying is true, then virtually everyone who believes they are saved are going to hell.

      [–]ChristianUr_BreathingManually 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      I'm not saying you have to be perfect, I'm saying repentance is a sign you're a true follower of Christ. For example: 'God i know homosexuality is frowned upon, but I am who I am and I'm not Leaving my partner' would be unrepentant, and salvation could be in jeopardy. To be extra clear, good people do not go to heaven; Saved people do.

      [–]Charismatickristina_kim 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I'm not saying you're saying you have to be perfect :)

      I'm just saying, this kind of thing always leads into a bad direction.

      Would I agree that unrepentant sinning is a sign of unbelief? absolutely.

      Would I say that someone who still sins is going to hell regardless of belief?

      That's a tough one. And frankly, I don't want to answer it.

      Romans 10:6-7: "But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) “or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)."

      [–]Christianphilo_the_middle 1ポイント2ポイント  (10子コメント)

      Christianity isn't just a team that you declare for, there are rules and beliefs that you actually have to follow and believe in.

      cf:

      The Pharisees were are group of very zealous Jewish leaders who took their faith very seriously. They believed that the way they would please God and make it to Heaven was by meticulously following a long list of religious rules and regulations

      Contra:

      “Nothing in the church makes people in the church more angry than grace. It's ironic: we stumble into a party we weren't invited to and find the uninvited standing at the door making sure no other uninviteds get in. Then a strange phenomenon occurs: as soon as we are included in the party because of Jesus' irresponsible love, we decide to make grace "more responsible" by becoming self-appointed Kingdom Monitors, guarding the kingdom of God, keeping the riffraff out (which, as I understand it, are who the kingdom of God is supposed to include).” ― Mike Yaconelli

      You should really read Messy Spirituality by Mike Yaconelli and/or The Ragamuffin Gospel by Brennan Manning.

      [–]follower of JesusMRH2 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Have you read "what's do amazing about Grace?" By Philip Yancey? You'd like it.

      [–][削除されました]  (8子コメント)

      [removed]

        [–]BaptistRatherBurnThanFade 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Not really adding to the conversation here or explaining your position. From what I read you were not part of that description (that is, I'm a Christian now so we can start barring the doors). But your lack of desire to clarify has me second-guessing that.

        [–]Episcopal ChurchEvanYork 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

        That's an extremely unwarranted response.

        [–]Christianphilo_the_middle 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

        If my focusing on God's amazing grace is a problem (having no claim of my own to being saved, only thankfulness for His forbearance), then I don't mind having that problem.

        [–]Christian30SecondstoMars 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

        You still need to follow the word. Grace isn't just a get out of jail free card that let's you do whatever you want because you'll be forgiven.

        [–]Christianphilo_the_middle 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

        At the risk of starting a protracted discussion with no resolution, what parts of the word do you follow, and which parts do you skim over, and how do you know which parts are ok to follow and which parts are ok not to follow?

        Basically, as a human, we cannot live without running afoul of some ordinance covered in the Bible. So, if that's true (which it is), it makes you realize just how great God's grace is and how it's not our job to tell people how to live but to awaken in them the enormity of God's love and just how immense His grace is to cover our horribleness.

        [–]Christian30SecondstoMars 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I attempt to and agree with following all the word and try my best to do so but as you state we all fall short I agree. It still doesn't mean we aren't supposed to try to follow it and doesn't give us a right to do whatever we want.

        Galatians 6:1

        Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.

        Matthew 7:5

        You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

        [–]Lutheran (LCMS)Philip_Schwartzerdt[M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Removed for violating rule 1.

        [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

        [removed]

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          [–]ChristianGabriel_Aurelius 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I just KNOW there's a joke in there somewhere.

          "What's the difference between a Christian who believes all sin is just fine and dandy and an atheist?"

          "The atheist understands that Jesus dying on a cross was necessary for salvation according to the Bible."

          [–]pilgrim-in-ashes 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          You said

          Christianity isn't just a team that you declare for, there are rules and beliefs that you actually have to follow and believe in. It seems like so many people don't get that.

          This is a common thought today that really has shades of Matthew 7 to it

          Mat 7:13  "Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. Mat 7:14  For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. A Tree and Its Fruit Mat 7:15  "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. Mat 7:16  You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Mat 7:17  So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. Mat 7:18  A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Mat 7:19  Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Mat 7:20  Thus you will recognize them by their fruits. I Never Knew You Mat 7:21  "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Mat 7:22  On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' Mat 7:23  And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

          There are seemingly always people that claim to be Christian.

          I know people really groan at the "True Christian" monkier but it's an appropriate distinction. There will be people that are misled

          2Ti 4:3  For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 2Ti 4:4  and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

          The number of these people seemingly is many. People sometimes have religious inclinations and like certain aspects of said religion. Humans like to do it ala carte. I'll take the peaceable happy loving Jesus and grace but an ability to sin here and live this way over here.

          You can call people on it but when someone is deceived they are deceived. Prior to his conversion Paul thought he was properly following the way. Those Pharisees we see with their focus on the law tend to think they are doing it right too regardless of their contrary nature.

          When the chips are down it's easy to see who a real Christian is. It was more evident in the early development of the church because it wasn't always easy. There was persecution. When constantine came on the scene it changed things. It was attractive to be a Christian. It became watered down.

          In our generation today even more so. But reflect on Matthew 7 and really think about it as the days and months go by. There are seemingly two sets of people. Those that are truly his sheep and hear his voice and those that "know of him" but are not really all that different from the demons in James.

          Jas 2:19  You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! It's never a head knowledge, it's never verbal profession only (the point of James), it's never just going through the motions (Matt 7:22). It's the changed life. The new heart. Eyes that are on Christ.

          The scripture is fairly plain on these things. There is a reluctance to see those things when your mind is busy making little Jefferson Bibles of it's own. It's a dangerous path to trod though it's far easier.

          [–]Assemblies of Godstarchaser57 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          What you're really saying is you're tired of false Christians. Listen, I do post in Christianity sometimes. I treat it as a place to witness. That's the way to deal with that one.

          Think of this as a place full of lost people who think they're right with God. Witness to the best of your ability and don't worry about the fallout.

          Don't get upset when they get upset with you. Answer questions that need to be answered but ignore the nonsense. Expect to be downvoted. Go on.

          [–]Christian (church of Christ)PMBorisStoke 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Totally agree. I frequently grow tired of it as well. It's frustrating.

          [–]Keirndmo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          First time I saw /r/Christianity was them talking about Babylon Bee and how it shouldn't be supported because one of the writers "believes there's a way to do Christianity wrong."

          That's when I knew to get outta there as quickly as possible. It was nice to hit the random button and end up here though. Good subreddits found throughout the random button is always nice.

          [–]ChristianGorilla-Triscuits -2ポイント-1ポイント  (29子コメント)

          I'm sick of self righteous christians who think they're without sin.

          [–]EvangelicalHenryplant 16ポイント17ポイント  (10子コメント)

          I don't pretend that I am without sin, I however do not celebrate that sin and pretend that it is alright.

          [–]ChristianGorilla-Triscuits 1ポイント2ポイント  (9子コメント)

          I'm not even directing any of this at you personally. Celebrating in sin is their problem. Something they will have to sort out themselves. Are you implying you should deal out judgement yourselves?

          [–]EvangelicalHenryplant 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

          Are you implying you should deal out judgement yourselves?

          No. I don't hate gay people and I don't even oppose gay marriage (from a legal standpoint not a moral one). I don't want to 'do' anything to gays but that doesn't mean christians should pretend homosexuality is okay. I'm not saying you do that but the OP is correct in identifying many people at /r/christanity do so along with many progressive christians in general.

          [–]Universal ReconciliationistTwistedDrum5 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (7子コメント)

          Christians don't "pretend" it's ok. They believe it is.

          Many have done a lot of research to reach their conclusions.

          How much research have you done?

          [–]EvangelicalHenryplant 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

          Genesis 19:1-13 Leviticus 18:22 Romans 1:26-27 1 Corinthians 6:9

          [–]Universal ReconciliationistTwistedDrum5 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

          Do you understand their context?

          [–]EvangelicalHenryplant 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

          Since you are obviously so incredibly enlightened on this topic why don't you inform me how

          "'Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

          .

          26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

          .

          9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,

          could all be interpreted to mean anything other than homosexuality is wrong in the eyes on God.

          [–]Universal ReconciliationistTwistedDrum5 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

          Would you care to listen if I explained, or is your mind made up?

          [–]Anglican SolitaryMadmonk11 6ポイント7ポイント  (12子コメント)

          You mean the liberal Christians who pretend that nothing is sin?

          [–]ChristianGorilla-Triscuits -5ポイント-4ポイント  (11子コメント)

          No. christians that think they don't.

          [–]Anglican SolitaryMadmonk11 10ポイント11ポイント  (10子コメント)

          Oh. You mean the gay Christians that say homosexuality isn't a sin. Gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up.

          [–]ChristianGorilla-Triscuits 1ポイント2ポイント  (9子コメント)

          No. Christians that think they don't sin. Or have complete victory over it. You shouldn't be so angry over this. We're sick. All of us.

          [–]ChristianUr_BreathingManually 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I haven't noticed any self righteous Christians, although I hear about them on Reddit every day. I have however, met the pro everything sin, nothing you do is wrong, 'Christians'.

          [–]Seventh-day Adventistvoicesinmyhand 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

          Christians that think they don't sin. Or have complete victory over it.

          Dude, this is what we were specifically commanded to figure out. Attaining this should be a goal, not an offense.

          EDIT: Remember when God talked about King David (post mortem) and said: he kept my commandments, followed me with all his heart and did only that which was good in my eyes? It wasn't just because he was forgiven, he actually did improve over time.

          [–]ChristianUr_BreathingManually 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

          You'll never conquer sin in this lifetime if that's what you're implying. But yea you should see some improvements.

          [–]Seventh-day Adventistvoicesinmyhand -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

          I think you are wrong. We can't get rid of the fact that we are composed of sinful flesh, but that doesn't mean that Satan is stronger than Jesus. It is possible to follow Him!

          [–]ChristianUr_BreathingManually 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Who are you actually following if you declare you're sinless? The bible says we are all born sinners, and our hearts are desperately wicked. Jesus wouldn't have needed to die if we could not sin.

          Ecclesiastes 7:20 ESV

          Surely there is not a righteous man on earth

          [–]Seventh-day Adventistvoicesinmyhand 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I didn't declare anything about myself, so stop that crap right there.

          The bible states that if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. Most people stop right there (seems like you do too, but that's for you to decide, not me), while others go further and use it as an excuse to commit sin.

          The problem is that the topic is expanded on stating that he that sayeth "I know Him" and keepeth not His commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

          If one were to take a literal meaning of both of these verses (both written in the same letter (1 John) by the same guy), then one would believe that it is impossible to know God. Unfortunately, Both Thessalonians 1 and 2 tell us that not knowing God is grounds for hellfire.

          John continues in his epistle, though, claiming that we can tell whether we know Him by whether we keep His commandments. He also implies that love is a big deal in evaluating this.

          Looking at each of these carefully we find that we will never get to the point where we no longer need Jesus, but we CAN get to the point where we are exactly like Jesus.

          Or to put it another way, Jesus' role in salvation is Justification. It is a fairly instantaneous process, and only handles forgiveness of sin. All other aspects of salvation are ignored. Jesus immediately brings the Holy Spirit in after Him, and His role in salvation is Sanctification - a ridiculously long and irritating process, but one that ultimately leaves a person clearly changed for the better. To deny the end goal of sanctification is to deny the purpose of the Holy Spirit.

          [–]ChristianGorilla-Triscuits 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          That's not what I'm saying. Striving not to sin is completely different from certain christians that think they simply don't. Not realizing sinning starts in the heart. Looking at a woman walking down the street and have thoughts about her? You sinned. Someone cuts you off and you want to wring their neck? You've sinned. The point is, our flesh is sinful. Not saying we shouldn't try not to. But that sinful flesh is there to stay, until the end.

          [–]ChristianGabriel_Aurelius 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

          I think this comment is confusing because At face value I agree with you. "Cultural Christian Bubble" as I like to call it.

          But when as a response to the OP, I didn't get that the OP was being self righteous.

          Is that really how you read what the OP wrote?

          [–]ChristianGorilla-Triscuits 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

          There's an air of SOMETHING mingled with his frustration, but I don't think that was his intention. I was mainly venting along.

          [–]ChristianGabriel_Aurelius 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Thanks. Have an upvote. I totally get venting!

          :D

          [–]Roman CatholicMadoradus[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Aren't we all?

          [–]Unitarian UniversalistWarrenDemocrat -2ポイント-1ポイント  (7子コメント)

          Liberal Christians like me know that our very existence in that state is offensive to some people, just as conservative Christians know the same of them. If you can't take dissent, stay on r/TrueChristian. r/Christianity's mods are very reasonable with conservatives, I really don't see where your gripe is.

          [–]Roman CatholicMadoradus[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

          There's a difference between "dissent" and "being bombarded by downvotes and insults for being a Christian".

          [–]PaperBoxPhone 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

          On that sub you can be a Christian, you just cant state biblically based beliefs. I once remember a heavily downvoted post that was just a quote from the Bible.

          [–]Universal ReconciliationistTwistedDrum5 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Was it taken out of context?

          If some girl was defending homosexuality, and someone replied the verse that says women should remain quiet, would you expect upvotes or down votes?

          [–]PaperBoxPhone 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Yes I agree, there are times at which a bible verse should be downvoted if used as a weapon. In my opinion, it was not one of those times.

          [–]Unitarian UniversalistWarrenDemocrat -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          What insults? Your last few tussles were abt transgenderism and the support thread for the gay kid in the bible study. As for the former I saw spirited debate. As for the latter the rules for support threads are clear and necessary. As for the downvoting, idk what to tell you. People use it as a 'disagree' button and that's not limited to the Christianity sub.

          [–]ChristianUr_BreathingManually -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Liberals brigade and censor, and from my experience are pretty anti free speech. They're actually regressive and do not allow opposing views.

          Note: I actually hate using 'liberal/conservative' in these types of context.

          [–]Unitarian UniversalistWarrenDemocrat 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I'm pretty confident that the sjw-brand of liberal you're describing is a vocal minority of liberals. Obama often criticizes that mindset in the context of safe spaces on college campuses.

          [–]Child of GodPetililPuff 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Amen! They are not all of us. And eventually they will all have to make the choice - to find and follow the truth or to admit that they were never Christ's to begin with.

          [–]ChristianGabriel_Aurelius 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Stick around. I have and I came from there.

          [–]Calvary Chapelkadda1212 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Is it really that absurd?

          I totally get where you are coming from. I agree mostly with you, but I think we have to ask ourselves as Christians, why gay people feel so uncomfortable in the church?

          Aren't we all sinners, aren't we all still doing wrong, trying to follow Jesus, but often straying away and rather following our own will? Why is it that thousands of men are feeling at home in the church despite having an addiction to pornography for example? Nobody chases them away for being sinners. This is just an example that came to mind. Or what about people who got in touch with the occult. They might still be practicing even though they go to church.

          Somehow I think we handle them differently. With more sympathy, and more love. There are always some Christians who are blunt and hurting in their comments about someone's sin, but most try to be more kind.

          When it comes to homosexuality though, it seems the approach is harsher in general. And I can understand, why someone would feel uncomfortable, if they are actually interested in a relationship with Jesus who is supposed to have unconditional love for us, but the church does not share this unconditional love. Instead you get to hear, you have to stop sinning, you have to change yourself, immediately, or you will be hated by God. Try to understand that. Try to imagine how that feels for a new Christian, a baby Christian, someone who has not really understood the whole gospel, yet, did not read the whole Bible, is just beginning to get to know God. And then he meets people who treat him like an enemy.

          Of course he would search for a more kind and tolerant environment.

          The problem is, that this environment then might be wishy washy and actually not helpful for him in growing in his Christian faith.

          I think, we have to find better ways to approach the problem of homosexuality. It is a delicate subject and not every Christian is gifted to handle it, in my opinion.