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adultery

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~48 users here now

WELCOME!

This sub is aimed at people either (1) in an affair or (2) thinking about affairs. The goal is to offer a place for those thinking or pursuing this path can talk about all aspects in an open setting.
Anonymity is important, throwaway accounts are encouraged (just be patient if your initial submission is stuck in the spam queue, we promise to release it and if it isn't, contact the moderators).

RULES:

We prefer lax moderation, so rules will be added as needed, but the main rule is simple: keep it respectful, insults will not be tolerated.

WARNING:

Don't let yourself whitewash the potentially catastrophic results that having an affair can have on spouses, partners, kids, family, friends, etc. This is the path of meifumado (hell): deception, lies, abused trust, and all sorts of other sins abound. The moral predicament isn't something everyone can handle, probably for good reason.

General Advice:

AM Strategy Guides

(NOTE: though AM has imploded, the techniques apply to most sites)

/r/adultery is not a r4r sub!

If you're looking to meet people, try /r/naughtyfromneglect, or go the old-fashioned route. Posts like "[m4w] Anyone looking for an AP in NY?" will be removed. The purpose of this sub is to give people an outlet to talk and discuss issues, not provide for a hook-up outlet.

Commonly Used Acronyms:

  • AP: affair partner
  • SO: significant other
  • NRE: new relationship energy
  • NSA: no strings attached
  • FWB: friends with benefits
  • AM: AshleyMadison.com
  • CL: craigslist
  • OKC: OkCupid
  • AFF: AdultFriendFinder
  • PoF: PlentyofFish
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submitted by wifeswaptex
Okay... Happy Hour talk, but honestly, I am very tired of hearing that men can't find women. I mean really guys, ALL I ever see are HORDES or women looking for you all, and you are no where to be found. I mean where are you all hiding?
I see tons of women who are not in their 20s anymore, who are seeking guys who have just a little something to offer. Yet, we are left, seeking you out, and I swear, you are all hiding in caves.
I swear I am so tired of hearing about the unbalanced ratios. All I see are TONS of great women, and not a man in sight. I would give my eye teeth to be a man, and just clean up on the hordes of women who are seeking a decent guy. Gosh, I wish I was a man. I am so tired of all the work it takes to try and be attractive to men. You all have so many wonderful options, and we are left with.....well....nothing to chose from!!!!!!!!
all 122 comments
[–]CoquettishKitten 8 points9 points10 points  (12 children)
You need to look in the mirror and admire yourself. You don't have to be perfect nor a pretentious cunt. Just be confident in what attractive qualities you have and can bring to the table. Because men find confident women sexy. Women with loads of insecurities are difficult to deal with because they require a lot of fluffing and maintenance. It's draining to try and fluff up insecure people because efforts to boost someone are often unsuccessful and met with resistance.
There are good men out there. But they won't waste their time on women who don't appreciate themselves first.
[–]wifeswaptex[S] -2 points-1 points0 points  (11 children)
You don't have to be perfect
In my neck of the woods, you do have to perfect, men have sooooooooooooo many choices. I wish it wasn't so. I have many incredible women friends, highly educated, beautiful, wealthy, and we are all in the same boat. Not a suitable guy in sight. The suitable guys, are all going for women 25+ years younger, it is disgusting, but they get to choose.
[–]CoquettishKitten 4 points5 points6 points  (10 children)
I'm sure there are some location differences. But I always have to wonder what these young ladies are offering that their older colleagues are not?? I have a good friend who I'd classify as successful, smart, beautiful, funny, and fit at 37 years old...she can't keep a man to save her life. I love her to pieces but she's fucking psycho when it comes to men.
I also stand by the fact you don't want to mingle with men who prefer ladies their kids age or younger...screams red flags to me.
[–]wifeswaptex[S] 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
But I always have to wonder what these young ladies are offering that their older colleagues are not??
Men seem to be completely entranced by younger. A biological imperative perhaps, but they have this need to have that trophy younger lady on their arm.
[–]clor0x69 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
I agree with you. But isn't it such a turn off to see men running after young chicks, or having trophy girls? I automatically start disliking dudes who are into that cause it's so predictable and it screams "insecure man over here" to me, even though I understand it has to do with biology.
[–]MissEpickle 0 points1 point2 points  (3 children)
I have one of those friends she is 36 and from the outside is an amazing catch but she can't even keep a guy long enough to live together . Then I saw her in action and man is she looney tunes when it comes to BFs I see why they run!
[–]CoquettishKitten 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
I see why they run!
Yep! I tell her this and she ends up doing the same crazy shit. She'll die old and alone...likely in a loony bin or prison lol
[–]MissEpickle 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
The one guy who was 25 at the time broke up with her every second weekend almost and she would call me threatening to kill herself! For a 25 year old she had dated a few months, that broke up with her all the time, and she was cheating on him with multiple guys.She would end up calling him a million times and following him when he went out. I asked her one time how she picked guys and apparently it was 100% looks :/ this is a woman who wants to get married and have kids but according to her personality doesn't factor in.
[–]CoquettishKitten 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
this is a woman who wants to get married and have kids
Same with my friend. Thankfully, she's unable to have children. I can't imagine how much she'd fuck them up.
[–]wifeswaptex[S] -3 points-2 points-1 points  (3 children)
Men can't help themselves, they are all programmed to head for young women. It takes a highly evolved man to appreciate a women his own age, and the very few evolved men, so they without a doubt have so many options.
[–]CoquettishKitten 4 points5 points6 points  (2 children)
I can see the initial desire/attractions to young beautiful women. But I can't help but think that a man with any cognitive power would be interested in these women past a sexual conquest. Not that these women can't be smart. But most men I know seem to prefer smart, mature, successful, established women for the longer haul.
[–]wifeswaptex[S] -2 points-1 points0 points  (1 child)
Ha! I can't say that I have seen a lot of example of men deploying their cognitive powers when it comes to younger women. :(
Most successful men I know on their second marriage, all chose women at least 10+years younger, and when they look for APs, also chase the young ones. If the women happened to catch him when he was young, and hang onto the marriage, but otherwise, all bets are off, once he is back in the dating marketplace.
Literally, I know women spending thousands on dating coaches offering to introduce them to suitable men. Women are paying almost $1000/date for these guys, and they are bums.
A tall, fit man with anything to offer (married/single), literally has hundreds of women available to him.
[–]CoquettishKitten 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Literally, I know women spending thousands on dating coaches offering to introduce them to suitable men. Women are paying almost $1000/date for these guys, and they are bums.
This alone I find very unattractive. Dating coaches? That seems like a scam to me...which I would personally find to be highly unattractive/undesirable/foolish/financially irresponsible in a man or woman. It's one thing to get therapy to work on self esteem and other issues.
A tall, fit man with anything to offer (married/single), literally has hundreds of women available to him.
I tell my AP this all the time. I'm still astounded he chose me.
[–]MGirl117 5 points6 points7 points  (9 children)
You seem to be upset that the men you are interested are only interested in younger women. Apparently for superficial reasons. Then you go on to say that you are looking for "tall, fit men" your age who "know how to fuck". Wouldn't you say you too are a bit superficial in what you are looking for? Maybe this is your problem. There are plenty of men in their late twenties early thirties who may not be rich, but appreciate older smart fit sexy women. Maybe you should consider other options.
[–]wifeswaptex[S] -1 points0 points1 point  (8 children)
Wouldn't you say you too are a bit superficial in what you are looking for?
How many women want to date men who are shorter than them? I don't think this is just a strange requirement, and perhaps I should say rather than fit, not obese. Men in my age range, have let themselves go, and the few that are somewhat in shape, and have anything to offer, ALL can and do date younger women. If I were in their shoes, I would do the same.
[–]MGirl117 2 points3 points4 points  (7 children)
Well, it's a numbers game after all, and you're posting that you are having trouble. Supply and Demand. I find it very hard to believe that the few fit/non-obese men in your age range only want to date younger. Maybe this is all you're seeing because you are attracted to a superficial type of man. That's what it sounds like to me. Or maybe you have an unhealthy viewpoint of what men are like, and just are making assumptions. Why not consider dating someone who's slightly shorter (5'10"-5'11")? Or younger? Or a really fit guy who's slightly older (50-60)? You may feel that as a tall fit attractive person in your 40's that you deserve to be with a tall fit attractive man in his 40's, and accept nothing less. There's nothing wrong with that, but going back to the supply and demand thing, you may never find what you are looking for and end up alone. Or you may find what you are looking for but it takes time and patience. Have you considered expanding your geographical range? If you are single, in your 40's, tall, fit and attractive, I really don't think you should have any trouble at all. There are short obese women in the same age range that can get a date! Try the free weight section of a local larger gym. Go early in the morning, or right after work (5:30-6 pm). Most men in your desired age range, that are employed, have to work out early in the morning or right after work. The fit ones will be there regularly, so you can get to know them without "dating" them at first. The worst place to meet men is at a bar. Who goes to bars regularly? Alcoholics and men who like to pick up younger women.
[–]wifeswaptex[S] -1 points0 points1 point  (6 children)
Go early in the morning, or right after work (5:30-6 pm). Most men in your desired age range, that are employed, have to work out early in the morning or right after work.
I do see the "regulars" in the free weight room, and have on occasion had quick conversations. My gym is the super high end one, and people just don't socialize. Everyone is very focused on getting in and getting out. I am also either shy or low self esteem, that I rarely even look at men in the eyes. So, I would need them to make the first move.
I completely agree on your supply and demand analogy. I have been reading the book, "Settling for Mr. Good Enough", and the author makes a ton of great points, similar to what you have stated. I have dated men shorter, younger, older, but of course the men who are most appealing are the ones who are already married. It is very difficult to be with an incredible man, and than have to be realistic and be happy to date someone who is pretty unappealing.
[–]MGirl117 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
You are correct. Unfortunately the "good ones" are usually already taken. Work on making eye contact and smiling at people when you walk by. Eventually you will break past your shyness. Guys are shy too and might be intimidated by you (believe it or not), so a smile will make you seem more approachable. Eventually you will find yourself making small talk, and even if you don't get dates there, it will give you more confidence around men. Definitely don't settle though. I completely understand dating a dynamic man and the difficulties moving on when a relationship like that ends. But, you will meet someone that you will be happy with. Be patient, give it time, and keep dating! The more you date, the sooner you will meet someone who meets your criteria.
[–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Thank you! I went on a dating site this week, and deleted everything after one night. It was completely depressing to see the choices in my immediate area.
I am still seeing my AP, it would be easier to counterbalance him with someone else, thus occasionally I check out the dating scene.
To your point, most of the married men I am around are all fantastic (e.g. work colleagues). Their wives were so smart to lock them in, and it is just depressing to contrast that with the dregs that are in the dating market (and I know that is very rude). I am not alone, all my GFs in similar situations experience the exact same thing. A desirable man comes on the dating market, snatched up immediately.
[–]louis_g_wu 0 points1 point2 points  (3 children)
As far as the gym thing - lunchtime is another good time. A good ice breaker is asking someone about their exercise program or technique when they're on a rest break. It doesn't commit you to anything and you get a good handle on how articulate (or obsessive) they are.
[–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
The only issue with lunch, is hair/makeup. Don't want to re-apply in the middle of the day.
Thank you for the recommendation, the issue is I want men to approach me, otherwise I can't gauge their interest.
[–]louis_g_wu 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
I wouldn't think of it as approaching anyone. More like your WWF endeavors (not stalking. I have a good memory). It's giving the other person a way to approach you :-)
[–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Brownie points :) You do have a good memory.
[–]nastytalkisgreat 4 points5 points6 points  (6 children)
I'm a man and I hardly ever hear back from anyone I write to. I'm having a tough time finding a good woman to connect with
[–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (4 children)
I wish you luck....I honestly don't get it, because all I ever see are TONS of women. I just don't understand how the two sides are connecting.
[–]nastytalkisgreat 1 point2 points3 points  (3 children)
I definitely see more men than women. I think women get overloaded with guys writing them sorts hard to keep up
[–]wifeswaptex[S] -2 points-1 points0 points  (2 children)
You are probably responding ONLY to young women. They are overrun by responses, yet women you own age sit there looking for guys their own age.
[–]nastytalkisgreat 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
That is definitely not true. I prefer women in my age range or older. I want someone I can relate to and have things in common with
[–]throwawaypille 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Clearly the women have unrealistically high standards.
[–]motoradio 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
The grass is always greener. Like anything else, finding a suitable AP can take considerable time and effort. I tend to agree that women have more options (online) but at bars or wherever the playing field the odds are even.
[–]MasochisticUnicorn 2 points3 points4 points  (3 children)
I dunno, I have the opposite issue - I get messages all.the.damn.time from guys but they're so.... blech.... that it's exhausting to weed through them all. I mean, once you block all the ones who are allergic to dental care, and the ones who think the world needs to see their dick, and then the ones who can't spell or communicate coherently, and THEN start reviewing for attractiveness, and the list is really goddamned short after that. And I"m not even saying HOT, I'm just saying... attractive. Mildly. Anything.
And giving your eye teeth to be a man, why that would put you right in with the rest of the ones I've seen. Harumph.
:)
[–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
And yet, those same guys have a lot of options, because women have so little to choose from.
The only saving grace, and it is sad as a women, is to completely suppress any sexual needs. Just to disengage from even wanting a man. That is how ugly and sad it is to be a woman.
I am just so fucking tired of men of men going on about how they can't find a women, when all they seem to want is a women who is 22 fucking years old. I mean, come on.
[–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
And giving your eye teeth to be a man, why that would put you right in with the rest of the ones I've seen. Harumph.
:)
lol....good laugh today, very clever. :)
[–]marriedscoundrel 2 points3 points4 points  (37 children)
Gosh, I wish I was a man. I am so tired of all the work it takes to try and be attractive to men.
lol You have nooooooooooooooooooooooo idea. I won't debate that the areas of difficult differ between men and women, but if you're talking about just finding people, it is indescribably easier for women. Ridiculously so.
Thanks to the power of the internet, you can try being a man for a few days, see how the process goes for it.
[–]wifeswaptex[S] -1 points0 points1 point  (36 children)
I disagree. For a tall man, over 6' 2", I believe he has NOTHING but women chasing him. I see it all the time, the very few tall men at any bar, dance club, etc., have the choice of women.
Oh, and conversely, if you are a 5'2" woman, you have the choice of men.
There are many factors that go into the dating/mating game, and when you are not in the mode (or medium) of the bell curve, it gets more difficult.
Yes, I would give my eye teeth to be a man, I am so tired of trying to wait for men to do the right thing, when I can run fucking circles around them. It is so tiring trying to lead the horse to water, and I just give up. Obviously, I am not attractive enough to make the horse drink.
I get it, men don't want me. Breaks my heart, but that is really the end game.
I am just so tired of men only chasing 22 year old women, when there are tons of great, in shape, women in their 40s who are completely invisible. Great for the women in their 20s who have every man in the world chasing after them, but really there are lots of other women who might be a fit, but are never given a chance.
[–]marriedscoundrel 2 points3 points4 points  (12 children)
Man, this is hilarious.
I'm 6'3. I don't really like the bar scene but I do go sometimes. I have a pick-up artist friend and we've agreed to wingman for each other. My friend is considerably shorter than me, but admittedly more attractive and usually better dressed. To date he has always picked up a woman when we went out (sometimes two!), and my score as it were is still zero. One of the last times we went out he said he didn't particularly want to pick up, just hang out. He wasn't impressed with the women there, and picked out one out of the crowd as the only one he'd want to talk to. Wouldn't you know it, 20 minutes later she came up to him! And they had sex the following week. Me? I played wingman...for her male buddy.
So I have Tinder. I kind of hate Tinder, but I'll go through the motions anyway. I default to right-swiping. I have to see something really off-putting to left-swipe. I went for weeks/months at a time without ever getting a match. I recently just improved my profile thanks to suggestions from my pick-up artist friend, and got a handful of matches, but it's still swiping to the max number allowed twice a day and rarely ever getting a hit.
I got myself a new AP two weeks ago! It was relatively easy, and one of the easiest pickups I've had in awhile. She's only the third new AP I've gotten this year. Of those three, one ended up being a one and out, despite her claiming that the sex was amazing. The other one is one I kind of want to end things with. I've struck out 4 times since the beginning of the year, but I'm only counting situations where we met in person. If I were to factor in women I traded emails with but it fizzled out before we ever got to meeting...at least 10 if not more. Keep in mind getting those 10 to email me involved wading through 100 women who never replied.
Not trying to make this a pissing contest, but you think it's easy to be a tall man? Ha! Conversely, I'd love to live where you do, where apparently women regularly approach men. Where is this valhalla?
[–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (11 children)
Well if you appreciate Asian women, I would definitely say the West Coast in general would be your Valhalla.
The demographic maps I have seen of male/female ratios, in general show the East Coast it is beneficial to be a man, and the West Coast a women. Here is the link: http://jonathansoma.com/singles/. "The changeover from extra men to extra women starts in the late 30's, but doesn't overtake California and the Pacific Northwest until everyone's in their 50's." "Ladies: After your mid-40's, you will be fighting tooth and nail for the nine or ten remaining single men."
[–]marriedscoundrel 0 points1 point2 points  (8 children)
I don't have a thing for a specific type of woman, particularly ethnicity. If she's reasonably attractive and we get along, I'm good.
I guess this means you're on the east coast? I don't pay much attention to geography. Just as long as she's close. I live in a major city so there shouldn't be a shortage. But there is a lot of feast and famine. I guess I'm coming out of it now, but for the past few months I was in the middle of a major famine.
[–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (7 children)
There is a lot of famine for women, even women in fantastic shape, etc. Men simply slide their dating range to maybe 35, at the top end. So be it, men can reap what they sow. Men on dating sites who have their age range set to 99, definitely get a message from me. :)
[–]marriedscoundrel 0 points1 point2 points  (6 children)
My age range is set to 65. ;P
I know a lot of men prefer youth, but I don't. Even when I was in my 20s I liked women in their 30s and beyond (a couple of really good experiences showed me the light) and even now I have a few APs who are older than me. I don't think I'm some sort of unicorn, there must be other men like me.
But you can take some small solace in knowing that what you are missing out on, probably isn't much. I mentioned my pick-up artist friend who is very attractive and is constantly pulling in women. He definitely prefers young (like 28 is already pushing it). But he doesn't go down on women, and from what I understand isn't all that good in bed.
Women can be very picky/choosy as well. I'm 6'3 and I constantly hear from the women I do hook up with that a shorter guy isn't even on their radar. I guess you read my story about "Mei" - what I'm finding out about her is she will "let" me pay for everything, and apparently does not give BJs. That's not ideal...but it's not like I can cross her off my list because of it. It's already hard enough to find APs.
[–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (5 children)
The irony, of course like most women I get tons of offer from younger men(20, 30s). The gap seems to be tall men in their 40s, who are allergic to women their own age. Like you say, they seem to want the 20 year old trophies, and fine, that is what they are seeking. That means, essentially, I have to be interested in men in their 60s. Um, well maybe there might be a tall man in his 60s who doesn't have physical issues, but it very difficult to find. It is just frustrating to be relegated to either 20/30 or 60 year olds.
[–]marriedscoundrel 2 points3 points4 points  (4 children)
Well then, what's wrong with the 20-30 year olds? I was one once - well, I am still in my 30s. Even in my 20s though I appreciated older women...and had a heck of a lot more stamina. :P Kind of too much actually.
One thing I am kinda noticing as I climb up the ladder is that as I get older I do get more attention from younger women (daddy issues?). These same women probably wouldn't give me the time of day if we were the same age. If you're the kind of guy who, for your sex life, just wants an attractive hole to stick it in, I suppose a mature woman is going to lose out to these young beauties 99% of the time. But again, do you really want a guy who just wants a good-looking living fleshlight?
[–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (3 children)
I suppose a mature woman is going to lose out to these young beauties 99% of the time.
Exactly!
[–]Imaidiot88 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
No way, try Asia. It's awash in Asian women.... Although they tend to objectify foreigners in all kinds of weird ways.
[–]MGirl117 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
I agree with the other poster that it seems like you have a confidence issue. Work on being happy in your life without a man, and men will find you attractive. I am not quite 40 yet (late 30s), but I have no problem meeting men. I am a fairly confident person, so if things don't go past an initial date, I try not to get my feelings hurt. I work out regularly but do not necessarily have what society would deem a "perfect" body. I am not tall and thin, yet I still have no trouble attracting tall fit men, among others who I find attractive for other qualities beyond superficial looks. My range typically spans from early to mid 30s to 50 as a cut off. Perhaps it is because I'm in a different part of the country. But I do think you can find "good" people, male or female regardless of where you live. Be patient, re-evaluate why you find men who desire much younger women attractive in the first place. If I see a man going after a younger women, it's an immediate turn-off. I know what I was like as a 20-year-old: young, dumb, superficial, insecure, and terrible in the sack...I may have been considered good looking. I prefer me better now, and it seems like the men I date now are more appreciative of who I am and what I can provide. I wish you the best of luck in your pursuits, and hope you find someone who makes you happy.
[–]wifeswaptex[S] -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
Thank you for your feedback, and I do have a wonderful life, but I think sex is a pretty basic requirement.
In your late 30s, you are still in the golden zone for men, trust me it changes. Here is just a snippet:
Here is the link: http://jonathansoma.com/singles/. "The changeover from extra men to extra women starts in the late 30's, but doesn't overtake California and the Pacific Northwest until everyone's in their 50's." "Ladies: After your mid-40's, you will be fighting tooth and nail for the nine or ten remaining single men."
[–]CoquettishKitten 0 points1 point2 points  (17 children)
Oh, and conversely, if you are a 5'2" woman, you have the choice of men.
I'm not even 5'2" so most tall men usually trip over me before they recognize me :D
[–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (16 children)
I would gladly donate a few inches, if you wanted them! :)
Tall men are an endangered species. Every woman I know, wants a man at least 6', even if she is maybe 5' 2". For those of us, who really need tall men, they are all taken.
[–]CoquettishKitten 0 points1 point2 points  (5 children)
I'm 5'1 on a good day and certainly guilty of dating tall guys. They've all been at least 6'1 and the tallest 6'7. I'd just love to shop outside of the children's section or not tailor my clothes. Ho-hum.
[–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (4 children)
Ha! I appreciate your input. This is pretty typical, most women I know all want guys over 6'. They have all the choices. There are likely a ton of shorter guys who are left over, and I guess I have to figure out how to get comfortable with towering over the remaining men.
I think the tallest I dated was 6'4", and I was in H.E.A.V.E.N. :)
[–]CoquettishKitten 0 points1 point2 points  (3 children)
Holy shit, how tall are you?
The tallest for me gave 1.5 ft difference which is somewhat comical.
[–][deleted]  (2 children)
[deleted]
    [–]CoquettishKitten 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    Ha! You tower over me sitting down! :)
    [–]throw97135 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    I'm a 5'7" man. The struggle is real.
    [–]seeking1213 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
    I'm 5'3" and I avoid taller men! My SO is 5'4" and my AP is 5'8". Both are a perfect fit for me.
    [–]AnotherMe2015 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
    A lot of men are over 6' nowadays, I don't think they are extincting. My SO is 6'4, fit and good looking, but I always laugh at him that he is clumsy. If a man is attractive, I don't think height matters that much as long as he is taller than me.
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
    A lot of men are over 6' nowadays,
    Actually it is 14% of the US population. Also, to you a man might "seem" over 6', where for me, a man can't fudge his height.
    I don't think height matters that much as long as he is taller than me.
    You have to admit at 5'2", you have a high likelihood that most men are going to be taller than you. I too would like a man taller than me, it is just I am the exact opposite of you, 86% of the men are shorter than me.
    I do like your posts, we just have very different experiences.
    [–]AnotherMe2015 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
    Oh now I see where you come from! You are right! I have never seen a man who is shorter than me. All my life, I was grieving that I'm too short. Now I think it might be an advantage. Using the stools to reach the top shelves of my kitchen suddenly becomes acceptable :)
    [–]MyCleanThrowaway 0 points1 point2 points  (4 children)
    Why do you "need" a tall man??
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (3 children)
    I like to be dominated. I love it when a man pins me against a wall, or holds my hands over my head, etc. I love to slow dance with a man, and have my arms around his shoulders. I love to slightly tilt my head up to kiss a man.
    [–]MyCleanThrowaway 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
    Those are all preferences. You're entitled to them and your feelings about them, but I absolutely guarantee you're missing out by setting your acceptables so narrowly. Just like you accuse men of doing.
    And for the record--I like to be dominated, too. Height does not automatically denote alpha in bed. I'm 5'10", and my first and most dominating AP to date was just shy of 5'8". And I always, always wear heels.
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
    Appreciate your feedback. I really need to get out of my head.
    Even when men tell me they are okay with my height, I don't believe them. That is my issue, not theirs.
    You give me hope with your story of your 5' 8" guy...sounds like you had a lot of fun!!! :)
    [–]MyCleanThrowaway 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    It sounds like you don't enjoy being tall. Why?
    [–]AnotherMe2015 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
    "For a tall man, over 6' 2", I believe he has NOTHING but women chasing him. I see it all the time, the very few tall men at any bar, dance club, etc., have the choice of women. Oh, and conversely, if you are a 5'2" woman, you have the choice of men."
    Funny! Even though I'm not young, also I'm at east coast, I'm 5'2". Just as you said, I have the choice of men. SO is 6'4", I don't think there are a lot of quality women chase him...Bottom line, your theory is so not true!
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
    I will say, there are far more married men who are tall, thus my interest in them. Conversely, in the single market, very few.
    I do agree in the married market, women have the advantage (at almost any age), it is very different when you are older and trying to find a similarly sexy man. In the singles marketplace, men in their 40's at are the top of the dating heap.
    [–]AnotherMe2015 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    I believe you are true on men at 40s are the top of dating heap for singles. My experiences are limited to affair market, and majority men seeking affair are at their 40s and late 30s, so there are abundant of them.
    [–]AnotherMe2015 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
    Are you looking for somebody to date/marry, or to find an affair partner? Those are two different markets. In affair market, guys definitely out number women.
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
    At this point, just someone a man who is sexually attractive and available. That is how low the bar is. Honestly, I am frustrated even with the guys who only want affairs, their game is really lacking. I mean come on guys.... at least make it a little interesting.
    All I can assume, is that even the married guys, have a whole lot of options, because most of them are not bringing their A game. At least not to me, which makes me feel terrible. But, I "get it", they have better options, so I am left to deal with the guys who are disappointed their first choice is interested in someone else.
    But hey, I have feelings as well, as I don't appreciate feeling like a back-up plan.
    I guess my point is, don't assume that the woman doesn't get that she isn't your first choice. Don't be surprised, if she doesn't bring her A game, because frankly, as the fucking man, you aren't making her feel good.
    Gawd, darn it, why don't men understand how simple this whole thing is??????
    [–]Huge-Yakman 1 point2 points3 points  (5 children)
    WTF are you talking about? I'm thinking that you are trying reverse psychology. Men are totally on the prowl! Come on over!
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] -1 points0 points1 point  (4 children)
    All I ever see is TONS of women at events, bars, etc. Not a dateable man in site. It may be unique to my area, but we are all searching for those tall guys, who are no where to be found.
    [–]Huge-Yakman 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    Wtf? Come over here!
    [–]throwawaypille 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
    You do realise only 14.5% of US men are 6' and taller? Are you in the top 14% of women?
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
    In fact I am very aware of that statistic. Yes, I also know that many women will only accept dates from men over 6' (which conveniently a lot of men on dating sites state their height as 6').
    As to whether or not I am in the top 14%, I guess it depends on what specifically you are you referring to, I suspect my "look". Some men find me appealing, others don't.
    I understand there is frustration for both men and women. In fact, I probably have a lot in common with shorter men, because they often aren't given the chance. Trust me, there are "sweet spots" in the dating market, and it is frustrating when you age out, etc. You still would like to find a man who has perhaps a few things to offer, after all sexual attraction is important for both sexes. I certainly do my part to maximize what I have, and it is just frustrating that I am not even given a chance because I don't fit inside either a height or age filter. That is life, and I need to suck it up, but it gets frustrating to see guys your age out with often unattractive women, but they are much younger, and thus feed the guys ego.
    [–]throwawaypille 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    What women find attractive in other women is not necessarily the same thing men find attractive in women. Also I think men are much more varied in their tastes in women than women seem to be in men. That said I'm in my 40s, if I'm looking for a woman to fuck I would go for a woman in her 20s - I've got a pretty hot one in her 40s at home already, maybe that's a factor?
    [–]Imaidiot88 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
    Where is this magical place of great sane women?
    Although it does happen, some women want that 'fix'er up project' and come over when I'm trying to be alone which in China is a fucking impossibility... Crazy ones that fall in love with my eyes, but completely ignore anything else.. Then the ones that want to touch my hair to see if it's real, or demand to know why I have "good skin" ... it's hard not to feel like an animal in a zoo sometimes.
    Lots of girls?... sure but someone you want to be involved with? I donno.
    [–]BreakingBadHusband 2 points3 points4 points  (18 children)
    I feel like your inbox's new theme song is going to be "It's Raining Men". ;)
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] -1 points0 points1 point  (17 children)
    Ha! That isn't my intention, I have my own issues. Honestly, the point I am trying to raise, is as a women, out on a Friday night, with a GF, there were NO GUYS!!!
    I mean come on where are all hiding???? That is really the question. I go to a ton of events FILLED WITH WOMEN....where are you guys?
    I swear, men are invisible and hidden away.
    Oh and by the way, the classes I could teach men, about how to respond to women. Lesson #1, when a women send you a picture, you better respond in in T-1 second about her, otherwise she is going to assume the worst. I mean I want to bang my head against a wall. OMG do men even understand women??? I think not. :(
    I am so over men. You have all disappointed me to no end. I am D.O.N.E.
    [–]CoquettishKitten 5 points6 points7 points  (9 children)
    Lesson #1, when a women send you a picture, you better respond in in T-1 second about her, otherwise she is going to assume the worst.
    Maybe I'm in the minority of women...but I want a genuine response which takes longer than a second to look, assess, pick jaw off floor, maybe fap, and then write back which assumes he had nothing else on his plate but to take a looksie at my picture.
    I've said it before, self confidence is sexy. Men don't want to deal with buckets of insecurities. Believe in yourself and the qualities you possess. You don't have to be perfect but believe in what you've got. :)
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (8 children)
    Ha! I appreciate your response. It should be noted I am about three sheets to the wind tonight.
    Hard to be confident when all you see is men in your age range, with their tongues out chasing women who are young enough to be their daughters. It is disgusting. I don't understand why they have to chase all these young women, when there are HORDES of women their age, in fantastic shape, interesting in them, but all they seem to care about are women who could be their daughters. UGH!!!!!
    [–]CoquettishKitten 2 points3 points4 points  (7 children)
    LOL :) the question is, do you want a man in the midst of a mid life crisis chasing tail their daughters age or a man who would would prefer the type of lady you describe??
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] -1 points0 points1 point  (6 children)
    Of course, we would all love to find men who have something to also offer to a partnership, but hey, that is just Disney dreams, and you know, we all know that there aren't any good guys out there.
    The few that still have a semblance of a body, are all attracted to their daughter's friends, and sadly their daughter's friends seem to be attracted to older men. It is just a sad state of affairs.
    Women seem to have more of a taboo about men who could be their sons, versus men who are only turned on by young women.
    [–]CoquettishKitten 2 points3 points4 points  (5 children)
    Of course, we would all love to find men who have something to also offer to a partnership, but hey, that is just Disney dreams, and you know, we all know that there aren't any good guys out there.
    This makes me incredibly sad. While I don't have a traditional relationship with my AP, I very much believe he offers me an incredible amount of wonderful things and I can only hope I provide just as much to him. He's certainly in my age group. I know I'm lucky, but I know he's not the only decent man out there.
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] -2 points-1 points0 points  (4 children)
    Based on your writing, I have no doubt you are an INCREDIBLE women, and your AP is a lucky man.
    I would say he is the exception, most men are all so god damn focused on those young women, they have zero interest in women their own age.
    Everyday there is a new story about a 20 year old women being chased by a 40 year old man. Same story, over and over again. I feel for the woman, because often she has no idea what she is giving up, and yes, that 40 year old man, gets exactly what he wants, that young body. Very clear, most men only care about that young body.
    [–]CoquettishKitten 1 point2 points3 points  (3 children)
    Based on your writing, I have no doubt you are an INCREDIBLE women, and your AP is a lucky man.
    Okay, now I cry. You're too kind. I certainly have my flaws and I own them. It took me a long time to recognize my good qualities. I see a lot of myself in you which is why I've always taken to commenting on your posts. You are well spoken, you're aware of your flaws...but you have no self confidence. I can't speak to your physical attributes, but you've noted in the past that you do your best to take care of yourself which I would like to assume you're not totally disgusting. I repelled many men in the past due to my insecurities and horrible self image. It's still a struggle. But the more I believe in myself, love myself, etc the more attractive I've become. Trust me, it still makes me sick to hear or say "love yourself and they will come" but is unfortunately true. I believe you have many, many wonderful things to offer and I'm not saying that to be kind. There are many posters here and in other subs that are truly foul humans. Just my opinion, take it or leave it but I stand by what I say.
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
    Thank you for sharing your vulnerabilities, I really appreciate (yes, I have tears in my eyes). I don't think I am the Hunchback of Notre Dame, and I am a kind person, who would try so hard to make a wonderful life with a man. Guess what, I waited too long, and I am relegated to invisible land.
    My point is, that men enforce a very strict time clock on us.
    [–]BreakingBadHusband 3 points4 points5 points  (6 children)
    Uh, you understand that not a lot of us guys enjoy Chippendales events, right?
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] 1 point2 points3 points  (5 children)
    Sorry, not following your Chippendales comment?
    We are well-heeled, well educated, and we just are looking for tall, fit guys, who know how to fuck and treat a lady with a little dignity. Cannot find these guys.
    [–]BreakingBadHusband 2 points3 points4 points  (2 children)
    I assumed that the events you were going to were male stripping events and thus there wouldn't be a lot of men there, other than the strippers. ;)
    It was a joke. Even Seinfeld had off days. Lol
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
    Nope, out to happy hour, where you would have hoped two women could have had a bit of fun. Nope, the few men that were there all were with women. Not a man alone in sight. Fuck, where are all the men hiding?
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
    lol....your joke makes sense today. ;)
    [–]throwawaypille 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
    Haha tall fit guys yet you berate those guys chasing young hot women. Double standards. I guess this is an adultery forum.
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    Not understanding how a tall, fit women seeking a tall fit man her age is a double standard?
    That said, unfortunately I understand the dating dynamics. Men like that are the top of dating hierarchy, as are 20 year old women. It is just the reality. I don't have to like it, and I don't. Thus why I try and tell all the younger women, do NOT waste those precious dating years, because you never get them back.
    [–]throwaway89623 1 point2 points3 points  (6 children)
    Go to the gym & do some squats, honey. It actually takes very little effort to attract a man. Unless your standards are ridiculously high.
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (4 children)
    Well back from the gym, cardio, Arnold squats, hamstring exercises, abs, and oblique's. Felt great. :)
    My standards aren't ridiculously high, other than height requirement, which knocks out most of the men.
    [–]CrossedxStaves 0 points1 point2 points  (3 children)
    See, now I'm curious.
    Why are you allowed to have a height preference (requirement by your verbiage), but men aren't allowed to have an age preference?
    I'm a woman, younger, with an older AP. So this entire thread makes me twitch. But THAT sentiment was a bit much for me to ignore, and now I'm genuinely curious 😛
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
    Glad you asked. Obviously there isn't a rule book, and I certainly am not going to change any man's mind...lol. What I am expressing is a frustration that I have experienced. It is very challenging to want to date men in your own age range, and rather suddenly to learn that you are persona non-grata. It is/was a big wake up call. Could happen to you someday, and I wish someone had warned me how quickly things change. When you are a younger women, you are awash in so much attention, you have to actively shut men down all the time. I just assumed male attention was always that way, and at some point that attention goes to your younger counterparts.
    I do understand, I can appreciate other women's beauty. However, I also admire that beauty can transcend age, or take a slightly different form. I admire women who age well, dress well, and are still attractive. I know the work involved, actually even younger women typically have to put in the work, it just changes. In any case, with the age thing so front and center on dating sites, and men just cutting off their options, it is just painful to realize you aren't on the radar screen.
    Just as an example, imagine looking at a man your age, and his lower age range is a quarter of century lower, and his upper age range is ten years younger than he is. His choice, but honestly it hits you in the gut, that a man your age, isn't even willing to consider a women his own age. Yes, I could also see much younger men, and I have, however for the most part they are just looking for short term fun. Whereas the older man/younger woman, has a chance at something longer term.
    As to the height preference, it is just that, and I always admire men who are shorter than me who ask me out! Actually, I find it a good indicator of their confidence. However, all things considered, given my choice, there is nothing like being at least slightly shorter than a guy.
    [–]CrossedxStaves 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
    I won't disagree with you on the height issue. My husband is 2 inches shorter than me (5'7) and my AP is 6'4 😛 I'm just playing devils advocate!
    I feel like it may be where you're looking? Have you ever been with younger men? I saw a few posts on here a while ago where men were praising older women (30+) because they tend to be less flaky and they know what they want.
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    Thanks for the reply!
    Yes, I have been with younger men, and they are a lot of fun! :) However, I really appreciate a man my own age, and they seem to be the most popular. :)
    [–]MissEpickle 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    Funny how it happens like that ;)
    [–]BreakingBadHusband 0 points1 point2 points  (6 children)
    I'm waiting to hear how bad the hangover is....
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (5 children)
    Ha! Margarita and two glasses of wine on an empty stomach, was not a good idea. Tequila does crazy things....
    Very dehydrated today, but back from gym, and feel a little better.
    [–]BreakingBadHusband 0 points1 point2 points  (4 children)
    Lol. Glad it didn't keep you from your gym full of women! 😉
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (3 children)
    Trust me, it took me a long time before I felt I could cross that threshold of grunts, barbells, and male rituals. But hey, I think most of them treat me as a regular now. :)
    [–]BreakingBadHusband 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
    Except for the "barbells" bit it sounds like sex. Well, I have to be honest, barbells were involved, once.... ;)
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
    Well, I have to be honest, barbells were involved, once.... ;)
    Do tell! :)
    Barbells....hmmm....not visualizing at all.
    [–]BreakingBadHusband 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    In a pinch the heavier ones work great for portable places to use for rope tie downs. You know? When you're in a room where more permanent structures aren't available.
    Geez. I should really use more of my brain for work than sex... ;)
    [–]livesomelife 0 points1 point2 points  (3 children)
    Well just be fit, wear a dress and heels. Fit helps everyone's odds.
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
    Well I am fit, and do enjoy dress and heels. The issue however is even without heels, I am taller than almost all the men, with heels, next to impossible.
    [–]livesomelife 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
    I am 6'5...tall women are hot.
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    On behalf of tall women - thank you! Most of the time we are treated as outcasts.
    [–]Iamthestandard 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
    I have a bit of a theory on this. I think men are more attracted to the early 20's crowd more for what don't possess than what they do. Especially in a bar setting, that tends to bring out the lowest common denominator to begin with.
    I think older men are attracted to younger women, not solely for their tight ass and perky tits. They are attracted to them because they are perceived to have less baggage and more availability.
    Their expectations are fewer, their boundaries are flimsier, and their bullshit tolerance is a lot higher. They are more willing to engage in casual sex and a good time, not always searching for Mr Right but Mr Right Now. They don't require these men to validate their existence in the world with endless dates, calls and emotional pick me ups.
    Let's face it, women in our 30's have generally seen and dealt with a honey wagon full of shit. We tend to be less trusting, more suspect of underlying motives and have built walls higher than even Spiderman is willing to scale. Most men looking to pick someone up in a bar aren't willing to jump through a bunch of hoops for an easy lay when there are plenty of young women willing to give them NSA sex.
    Alcohol and the establishments based around it, generally cater to the "shortcut" types. The alcohol effectively removes the time, energy and work required to find a person with shared values and interests. If you are looking for someone to buy you dinner a few times and roll around in the sack with, you'll be more than happy with the bar scene. But, if you are looking for a long-term fulfilling relationship you have to be willing to put the time and work into finding it.
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
    Great reply, and appreciate the points you made.
    [–]CubanGasp 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
    They are all on Craig's list sexting bots!
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
    OMG - too funny :)
    [–]CubanGasp 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    In every joke there is a hint of the truth.. ;)
    [–]clor0x69 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
    you are all hiding in caves.
    Yeah! Just like throglodytes :) And where the f. are the nice guys?!
    I just met a guy this morning talking about the disconnect between genders and it reminded me of your post. He was saying how women are complaining they cannot a man, and men are complaining that they cannot find women. Everyone looking for each other and not hooking up. He was saying that everyone is "busy" (aka: avoiding facing their problems by looking at themselves in a mirror), but no one really is. He also said both genders should just stop playing games and be real. So there you go, just found one guy who seems to be having the same problem. And of course, he doesn't live where I do...
    [–]wifeswaptex[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
    I am pleased to hear you met a nice guy!!! Who knows, I have heard many stories of people who met online and didn't live in the same area. Yes, it can be challenging, but it can work out.
    It does seem like men and women are two ships passing in the night. I think it is all the "bigger, better", shiny object syndrome. Everyone thinks there is a better match around the corner. You should read the book by Aziz Ansair, "Modern Romance". Very illuminating, especially that people use to marry the boy from their neighborhood block, and just made a go at it. They didn't expect fireworks, or that perfect fit. Of course, many women didn't have the options, so in some sense were almost forced to settle for someone. In any case, I do think today our expectations (mine included), make it very difficult.
    [–]clor0x69 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    He's nice, but as expected, he doesn't live in this open-aired prison/circus I do. I am meeting him tonight, and he will be in town until the end of the month, so maybe that will help me to get over that other stupid guy.
    I am avoiding thinking about the syndrome you mentioned, cause when you do meet someone you really click with, you won't let that person go. That's how I operate, but you know it's irrational for folks to follow the "bigger, better", shiny object syndrome. It's like chasing a rainbow and the minute you get there, the treasure is gone.
    Oh wifeswap, I read that book last year! I love Aziz Ansari. Have you watched the series? He's so funny. Thank God for humour, cause this whole dating and adultery can make us go so low. I don't expect fireworks. I met that married idiot and was expecting NOTHING, no fireworks, but I was expecting that the dude would not be married. What are your expectation these days? Mine are just that the guy has character and is not married :) oh, and that he likes to work like me.
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