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Imperial Japanese Navy vs KriegsMarine (self.HistoryWhatIf)

USS_Saratoga が 投稿

Let's say... Japan was never part of Axis and instead with the Allied forces. So when USA declared war on Germany, they asked for Japan's mighty navy and they went to help while USA and the others fight mostly on land, they have the IJN in the waters.

I assume, IJN would get upgrades with their radars or range finders and ASW as being part of the Allies.

And Germany doesn't even have a proper navy and mostly submarines.

What scenarios I am imagining

instead of Prince of Wales and Hood encountering Bismarck and Prinz Eugen. Let's say it was BatDiv 2

(But overall, would it change the war on Atlantic?)

Supplementary Question: What would be Germany's reaction/answer to Yamato and Musashi?

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[–]backgrinder 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

This wouldn't be a fight. A carrier navy would quickly dispense with German surface forces and when they switched to convoy patrol afterwards they would be just as dominant. WW2 subs had to spend almost all of their time on the surface even when making attack approaches. Carrier aircraft would see subs from hundreds of miles out and kill them by strafing. Total air and sea dominance within 6 months.

[–]USS_Saratoga[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dayum.. I was at least hoping good answers for KriegsMarine, seems like only the tanks are their good warmachines... :/

[–]osaka_amd 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

Let's say... Japan was never part of Axis and instead with the Allied forces. So when USA declared war on Germany, they asked for Japan's mighty navy and they went to help while USA and the others fight mostly on land, they have the IJN in the waters

Unless Japan forgone the invasion of Manchuria and only has Korea... ill just say that Japan still maintains a democracy in 1941.

Surface navy? Blowout. The IJN will smoke the Kriegsmarine every single time in a stand alone fight.

It would take a lot more time for the IJN to play catch up with the rest of the world in ASW (historically they never really dealt with submarines in WW1).

Again, once the IJN gets up to speed with ASW tactics and such, German navy is done for, the IJN has more training, assistance and ships that it would prob take the entire German Navy itself to sink basically a task force.

Supplementary Question: What would be Germany's reaction/answer to Yamato and Musashi?

Prob wouldn't dare to sortie a ship and try to get rid of her through bombing, subs and such instead of risking a task force. The Yamato would prob crème the Bismarck classes and make short work of any KGM cruiser, now with basically allied optics and such. Since realistically theirs no way their gonna build a response (like an H-44 Heavy Battleship) without it being a giant bulls-eye for the allied bombings.

[–]USS_Saratoga[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

But in a shootout, the Yamato has more range so of course, when Bismarck gets in range of Yamato, it means it's so close to her. But as already proven in the battle of Denmark Strait, doesn't Bismarck have a lethal accuracy?

[–]Caedus_Vao 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

But as already proven in the battle of Denmark Strait, doesn't Bismarck have a lethal accuracy?

The Bismarck had the advantage of literally everybody else in the water being an enemy. Definition of a target-rich environment. The shot that killed the Hood is universally agreed to be out of dumb luck; having penetrated through the thin upper deck and penetrating to the magazines.

The Bismarck possesses a shitty armor scheme, and 8 15" guns. The Yamato and Musashi's much thicker armor and 9 18" guns. The Japanese ships would would pound the Bismarck into scrap metal before it ever got close enough for ranging shots.

[–]USS_Saratoga[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah I know that the magazine hit is just out of pure luck, but before that hit. Haven't Bismarck already kept landing more hits than the KGV-class and Hood?

[–]osaka_amd 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

HMS Hood was sunk by VERY LUCKY shell landing in her magazine and detonating, this was caused by the Bismarck landing a shot (its suspected and popularly noted that went through the deck and detonated the magazine) through her deck and basically exploding the magazine (where they keep the ammunition). Many consider this not really "pure accuracy" but rather a very lucky shot.

In a recreation fight (lets disregard the idea that the IJN wouldn't attempt Kantai Kessen and go for a decisive victory pure and simple), The battle of Denmark strait (with the Yamato replacing HMS Prince of Whales) IJN order of battle would be:

  • 1 Yamato class battleship (replacing HMS Prince of whales)
  • 1 Kongo Class Battlecruiser (replacing hood)
  • 2 Either Takao classes or Mogami Class Heavy cruisers (replacing the two Town classes)
  • 6 random destroyers (rule must be they had to be built atleast after 1928, since the oldest ship was built in 1928... but w/e)

Generally speaking: The Yamato outclasses the Bismarck in almost every respect. While the Bismarck may outclass the Kongo, but unless the IJN are incompetent... Id say the Yamato would win 9-10 times due to it being superior to the Bismarck in almost every way.

If the Bismarck is sunk, what about Prinz? Well... All I gotta say is GG.

[–]USS_Saratoga[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

But when Bismarck, Tirpitz, Scharnhorst, and Gneisenau at least be able to fare up against the Kongo, Fuso, and Ise? But dayum... so basically, IJN vs KM is a mismatch?