Super Mutants: An Article on what Bethesda has done with them in Fallout 4

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by DirtyOldShoe, May 15, 2016.

  1. DirtyOldShoe

    DirtyOldShoe Some kind of lucky

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    Upon reading the terminals in Virgil's lab it appears the last recorded submersion subject was tagged as CF-203, or Commonwealth Female and the 203rd subject. As this is the final entry in the terminal it is safe to assume that it is the last subject and the total number of specimens was 203.

    The purpose for the Institute's FEV project was "synthetic organics" as mentioned by Virgil in one of his holotapes. He mentions that the tests yielded the same result because the subjects from the commonwealth were all contaminated with radiation, yet the very reason Shaun was selected was because he was not contaminated. As Shaun is the director for the FEV project and Virgil had informed him of the specific obstacle the department faced, it seems peculiar that over a 10 year span, neither one of them, or any of the facility came the conclusion that Shaun's stored DNA for Synths could be used as it was fundamentally the same road block as creating perfect Synths.

    Testing started October 7th 2277 and ended October 2nd 2287. If there were 203 subjects as the terminal suggests, that means that it took approximately 54 days for a batch of 3 Super Mutants, this also means that there was approximately 68 batches over the 10 year project.

    The terminal had 7 records for test subjects, 2 were discarded, while the others died either by the process or by termination. If the 2 that were discarded, accounted for "reintroduction" to the Commonwealth, that would be 30% return rate. Leaving a margin of error of +-10 and the fact that the project has been cancelled since the Sole Survivor escaped Vault 111, there would be a finite number of Super Mutants from ranging in numbers close to 50 - 70. These numbers are non-replenishable as Super Mutants lack reproduction.

    Virgil's experiments involved multiple strands of FEV according to his holotape. The Commonwealth subjects were submerged in FEV vats, much like the Master did. The vats are only seen in Virgil's lab but contain enough FEV to be able to 'mutate' the subjects. Virgil also had a special strand of FEV that was injectable that he used on himself while in a cave free of radiation, to prevent radiation, perhaps for leaving the cave, but there are other, better, less mutative solutions even if the cave were irradiated. Synths also don't seem to suffer from radiation so an irradiated area is probably not an ideal hide out. One could also theorize that nuking a facility with a variety of FEV strands and vats would not be a good idea.

    Super Mutants say, "You humans created us. Now suffer for your arrogance." This line is heard often and suggests a number of scenarios. By this dialogue we know that they are all aware that the institute created them, and that the Super Mutants in the Commonweath are limited to what was created by the Institute. As this knowledge is global to all Super Mutants and they all range in Super Mutant age, it wouldn't be a matter of tribal knowledge as the latest editions would need time to adapt to the surface, there are no Super Mutant hubs or learning centers, they are scattered across the map with a few notable leaders, Fist and Hammer. Through dialogue recorded with these leaders it is not evident that there is a hierarchy based on re-surfacing, but a brotherhood. Dialogue through Strong indicates that these brothers share and help each other. This leads to the conclusion that the subject either retains memories prior to submersion, or that they escaped the institute. With either of these variables Super Mutants would then know either that the Institute teleports people to get in, or that there is an escape tunnel and how to get back. One could say that their mental acuity does not support an awareness past seeing all humans as their creators or that they can not verbalize the events of teleportation. But enough information would be able to be gathered upon the first resurfacing. One could also argue that if Super Mutants are intelligent enough to write notes, coordinate objective like kill loot and return, as well as craft elaborate traps that even the sole survivor does not have the aptitude to, they would be able to find a way to communicate what happened to them.

    Virgil says " Swann? ...Yes, I saw his file. He was one of our first test subjects, years ago. His mutations destabilized. Started turning into a Behemoth." Suggesting that Behemoths are a result in unstable mutations. In DC Behemoths are very old Super Mutants and look the way they do due to age, gaining mass and loosing intellect with time. In Boston the same result is through instability. In DC and Boston, both variants of Behemoth appear to be the same, equipped with shopping cart backpacks full of boulders to throw. The only difference is that Swann is the only Behemoth that can speak.

    The Institute created the Commonwealth Super Mutants, but did not make Mutant Hounds. It is reasonable to assume that Mutant Hounds are dogs dipped in FEV vats much like their Super Mutant variant, but Super Mutants do not have any FEV or access to the facilities to be able to convert them. There are no records of their inception in the Institute, nor is there any suggestion on any terminal or through any dialogue how these creature came to be.

    Based upon my findings I believe that not only do Super Mutants and Super Mutant hounds contradict established lore from Fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas which have all kept close to lore, not only do they contradict the new lore established by Fallout 3, but they also contradict their own lore, placement and numbers. Virgil in essence should not exist as a scientist for this project and the "synthetic organics" project seems like a lazily slopped together concept not thoroughly processed, considered, tested or applied.

    Fallout 4 suffers from a seemingly immeasurable number of glaring lore blunders, noob modder errors, no attention to detail, etc. One thing that has been very loud and distracting from enjoying the poorly written story was Super Mutants. As if no thought or effort was put into them, as if they are there for the only reason being that it is supposed to be a Fallout game. I find the usage or perversion of this staple to lore grossly offensive and a spit in the face of the franchise. It is easy enough to say, "hey buddy, Bethesda messed up the Super Mutants, Bethesda sucks." That isn't enough for me. I will put the time and effort they did not into why they should not have the rights to the franchise, why handling something so simple as a Super Mutant is missed by them on a rudimentary level.

    If I could only pick one thing that makes me hate Fallout 4, it would be daunting looking at all the flaws for most, for me, if you can't give a reason for them to be in your world, they shouldn't be.

    It is very simple Bethesda, Emil, Todd and Whoeverthefuckallowsthisshit. When you make a creature, or an NPC, ask yourself. Why are they there. Think of something. It needs to make some sense. It can be ridiculous, just have all the points connect.

    Modders like myself have been making shit games like yours worth playing for years, giving them life. Do you even care? I could formulate what needs to happen to these creatures to have them be a part of the world instead of feeling like some overworked level designer ran out of options and started dropping them and placing spawn markers, but I won't. You've just been getting more and more lazy over the years, putting more workload on your modders. Next game you make, make it like it matters. Pretend that if you fuck up then you are on the street. Play your games, if you love them then that's a start. How do you know a game is good? You have a hard time saving and exiting. Fight for the game to be good, not just because it will sell copies to console. You can have both. Make console happy with lots of pew pew, gore and explosions, and also make everyone else happy including you by having the things with gore, pew pew and explosions fit into the world. It isn't that tough. All you need to do is try. It is just so blatantly obvious you didn't. That is why Fallout 4 is a bad game.
     
  2. Irwin John Finster

    Irwin John Finster Vault Fossil

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    The writing in Fallout 4 consists of a hodgepodge of random, incoherent "story" elements such as Kid in the Fridge, Ancient Aliens, wacky robots, kidnapping plot, synth/institute conspiracy, and nonsensical factions and other hastily thrown together elements that seem randomly sprinkled on the world map to fill it with a bunch of content that has no coherence or consistency and does not hold up to any sort of scrutiny whatsoever.

    So no I personally don't think they gave a crap with Fallout 4. I think it's a hastily thrown together mess of a game and they need better writers and direction.

    Can't wait for Elder Scrolls VI. It'll have a dialogue wheel and voiced protagonist. Hurray :/
     
  3. Izak

    Izak Instrument of Peace, Harbinger of War

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    I'm somewhat surprised by the lack of explanation in Fallout 4; I'm not going to make out like writing is the easiest job but staying consistent isn't very difficult, it's probably the bare minimum a writer can do, yet Bethesda consistently fails this simple, important step.
    I feel as though it shouldn't be too difficult to come up with a reason for there to be Super Mutants, just think for a while and make sure whatever you come up with makes sense, you're not writing the iliad, just make sure what you write is logical.
     
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  4. Mr muggyman 3000

    Mr muggyman 3000 Lover of coffe cups

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    Super muntants shouldn't have been in the game to begin with. The only reason they are is because Bethesda is to lazy to make new creatures
     
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  5. R.Graves

    R.Graves Sentient Spam-Bot

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    What about trog bloatflies yoa guys mirelurks and stingwings and... and... swamp people and... synths... and ummmm.... oh fev dogs.... and ummm oh shit two games and that it? Does the failed fev excitement count?
     
  6. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

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    I wager that's because you haven't actually researched the subject and OP certainly did not.

    I mean, seriously, check this:

    http://fallout.gamepedia.com/Institute_super_mutant

    And cite #4. The project began in August 2178.

    Then take a walk through Shaun's dialogue, who explains the point of the effort.

    http://fallout.gamepedia.com/Shaun's_dialogue

    It's good writing and very subtle, as the FEV used by the Institute accomplishes the original goals set for the FEV project, the creation of super soldiers: Synths.
     
  7. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

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    Make super mutants to make Synths.

    Seems legit (note I am joking, I'm not looking forward to an argument)
     
  8. eissa

    eissa Lady of War

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    maybe super mutant communicate with each other by....WAAaaagh!! :D
     
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  9. R.Graves

    R.Graves Sentient Spam-Bot

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    Also based on from what we are shown in fo3 synths were created as skaves. Also sentry bots and super mutantsvare both better than synths as soldiers and have both been around longer
     
  10. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

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    It was more about finding out a way to modify it so that they can have human-looking synths, which is harder than it sounds given the history of FEV.

    That way they don't have to redesign all of their gear and 3rd gens can simply take whatever tools 1st and 2nd gens already use.
     
  11. R.Graves

    R.Graves Sentient Spam-Bot

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    This is nonsense.
     
  12. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

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    Wait what...

    You need FEV to make Synths look more Human?
     
  13. DirtyOldShoe

    DirtyOldShoe Some kind of lucky

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    OP here. Please outline where I neglected to do research. I did not provide evidence for a case as I did not suspect to be called out on stated facts. For you information I have. This album does not include CK work nor does it include online research that I did not think to photo archive and timestamp.
    http://www.nma-fallout.com/gallery/...done-with-them-in-fallout-4-research.1111404/

    Read through it and it doesn't show anything I did not, I have also made further observations in my study and I would ask that if you intend on referencing another site to include the quote that you are focusing on.
    eg. "Uhh... This is Doctor Elliott, with the official report for the Directorate from BioScience. The date is, umm, August 2178. I'm pleased to report that, as has been the case during my tenure, crop yields exceed expectations. In point of fact, everything down here is fine... with... one notable exception. Doctor Frederick has informed me that the Directorate has pre-approved research on samples of the FEV virus, which he already has in his possession. Now, I'm not one to question the Directorate... you all know that. I don't even want to know where this came from. But... well, this is troubling. Dangerous, possibly. I will do my best to make sure risks are minimized, but I really do hope that the consequences are understood."
    This does not support your counter statement, it suggests that the project was green lighted but does not specify a date in which it actually started. For example, if I were to say you can start to make your way to the washroom, does not mean that you have started when I mentioned it, but that at some point undefined after you have.

    1000 pages of bad writing and no reference to mutants or FEV, if you do have a counter argument here could you quote the line(s) in question?

    That is subjective but I respect that you think it is and would expect the same respect from you that I strongly disagree.
    Institute FEV Did not accomplish anything and therefor this statement is factually incorrect.

    "The FEV research effort continued for several more decades, despite producing no useful data - except for manufacturing more super mutants for the surface to contend with. When Brian Virgil succeeded Dr Syverson as head of the project in April 2286, it became evident that FEV experimentation ran its course and served no useful purpose, not with the availability of third generation synths."

    In addition, If you do disagree with my OP, could you quote the parts that you do not agree with?
    Thanks
     
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  14. 0wing

    0wing Mods will fix you up

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    How the hell C.I.T ever got their hands of FEV? (the same question for Vault-Tec yet to be answered)
     
  15. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

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    FEV resilience, strength, and immunity, without the appearance of a super mutant. Which is kind of a bummer.

    Because they're one of the foremost research institutes in the United States of the time, also working on military technologies?

    I'm not going to bother, because you already made it clear you have no interest in facts or sources. I've provided you with a breakdown of Father's dialogue, dialogue which I consider to be well written and explaining the Institute's position in detail. If you think it's bad writing and dismiss it instantly, then why on Earth are you ranting on and on about how super mutants don't fit and aren't explained?

    Oh great, quoting out of context. You forgot these two sentences:

    "The research was intended to produce effective synthetic organics, but it ground to a halt in March 2224. Despite perfecting two FEV strains, the accumulated radiation damage in test subjects provided an insurmountable barrier to further development.[8] Just three years later, in 2227, the organic synth project experienced a breakthrough due to the acquisition of Shaun and his undamaged pre-War genetic code. The third generation synth project was spun off from the FEV research initiative."
     
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  16. 0wing

    0wing Mods will fix you up

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    There's an entry in some terminal or a dialog or something that explains it? Same goes to Vault-Tec.
    And if they have researched and developed it before the war, why wait for 2178 and behave like FEV is discovered only now?
     
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  17. DirtyOldShoe

    DirtyOldShoe Some kind of lucky

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    Likewise ;)

    Your recent activity here seems contentious. I have no interest in quarreling with you. I respect that you feel I lack the ability to research and leave it at that. Good day to you sir.
     
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  18. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

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    Because the Institute's divisions are autonomous and it's more like a confederation of independent parts than a cohesive, whole faction. There are secrets within secrets, shrouded within secrets in the Institute. In the horror and chaos of the Great War, who would notice that a file on a top secret, eyes-only project disappears and a sample gets removed to a reinforced location?

    For Vault-Tec, it was apparently intended for it to be set up around Wayne Merrick, for a rival research effort:

    I'm told that Dr. Merrick is one of the brightest minds in the field of accelerated evolution, and apparently Vault-Tec agrees, because they've set up this Vault around him to suit all of his needs in the event that the bombs fall. All of his data and his work have been transferred to this facility from many important sources such as Mariposa Base, West-Tek and Vault-Tec Labs.

    I like Dr. Merrick. He's driven without being careless. He knows that in the event of a nuclear war, he may be the only person left in the world that can advance human genetics beyond where they are now. He's meticulous, detail-oriented, and reports everything to me on a regular basis.
    More interestingly, it seems they already started experimentation before the Great War:

    The latest subjects in the Evolutionary Experimentation Program (EEP) are showing some promise after only a single exposure to the modified FEV. We are currently testing five subjects, two males and three females. Each one of them is under 24 hour observation as usual. We hope to have a breakthrough in this strain as the continual pressure from Vault-Tec and the military at Mariposa is becoming most bothersome.
    http://fallout.gamepedia.com/Vault_87_terminal_entries

    I don't like Fallout 3's writing, but there are interesting inferences to be had from available content. Vault 87 was a way to store a backup of the FEV project in case of a nuclear war... Except everything went sideways when the Vault was nuked. For all we knew, it may have even been deliberate, as a decoy protecting Mariposa. Given the degree of Chinese infiltration in Washington, D.C., it would also explain why our favorite military base escaped nuking.
     
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  19. whirlingdervish

    whirlingdervish Brahmin Cavalry Commander

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    I'd say blatant handwavium unsupported by the writing in the game is worse than quoting something without context. If there are huge plot holes, filling them with guesswork when Bethesda couldn't be bothered is not really the best way to go.

    If you have to resort to "For all we knew" you might as well say "this is pure conjecture" and stop acting like you're right.
     
  20. Theinnerfish

    Theinnerfish Storytelling skeleton

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    I may have to read them again but my impression was FEV project was done for then resurrected by Shaun (possibly to find a cure for his disease that's why he kept Virgil in the dark)