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(Minnesota) My boss took my car and drove it home from work because his was in the shop and I got fired for reporting it stolen (self.legaladvice)

stolencarthrowaway16 が 投稿

Not trolling I swear. If this wasn't happening to me I wouldn't even believe it. My location is the state of Minnesota and I'm looking for advice because I have no idea what to do next.

While I was at work my car disappeared from the parking lot outside my office. The office I work at is the only building that uses the lot. I reported my car stolen but later realized that I couldn't find the keys and I told the police that as well. The next day my boss was pulled over driving my car. He has told the police that I lent him my car because his was in the shop. I didn't lend it to him and he never even asked me if he could borrow it. I told the police I didn't lend it to him. He now says he assumed he could take my car while his was out of commission and that he took the keys out of my purse. He has been charged with stealing my car and now he has a lawyer and won't say anything else. I have also been fired from my job by my bosses boss and the company owner. The reason on my letter of dismissal was for showing disloyalty to the company. My bosses boss says I need to learn how things work in the professional world. I worked there for a year and it's the only job I've had since graduating college and they aren't going to give me a reference and my unemployment application was denied because I was fired for misconduct. I know about at will employment but are they really legally allowed to fire me because I told the police about my boss stealing my car?

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[–]swalsh411Quality Contributor 2880ポイント2881ポイント  (37子コメント)

my unemployment application was denied because I was fired for misconduct.

Appeal it. It will get overturned. It is not normal to be driving coworkers cars on a regular basis least of all without permission.

[–]cregbeary 1748ポイント1749ポイント  (9子コメント)

This OP. Your boss stole your car and keep saying it. You boss stole your fucking car. This wasn't a miscommunication. Imagine if your neighbor decided that he needed to use your car and just grabbed your keys from your purse.

[–]thumper242 691ポイント692ポイント  (0子コメント)

Worse than a neighbor, in my opinion, because a boss has power over you.

[–]Covert_Ruffian 154ポイント155ポイント  (6子コメント)

That sounds like the Homer and Ned dynamic...

[–]Thoctar 178ポイント179ポイント  (4子コメント)

And the only reason Homer hasn't been put in jail dozens of times is the police are incompetent and Ned is extremely kind.

[–]gobberpooper 103ポイント104ポイント  (0子コメント)

"But you never told me I couldnt borrow your car"

"Oh, I suppose thats true. I guess thats what I get for carelessly tossing around foreign phrases like mi casa es su casa."

[–]Lunacriss 116ポイント117ポイント  (2子コメント)

Bake him away toys.

[–]mechanicalmaan 41ポイント42ポイント  (1子コメント)

What'd you say chief?

[–]Stellar1557 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

That Flanders is always helping himself to other people's belongings.

[–]Bestoftherest222 931ポイント932ポイント  (23子コメント)

Get an attorney for wrong termination and do not settle with getting the job back. Demand a cash reward. Settling to get the job back will end like most do, with you getting fired for bullshit or driven to madness by assholes.

[–]GaryLLLL 153ポイント154ポイント  (22子コメント)

What are the legal grounds in MN for wrongful termination in this scenario? The OP should certainly appeal the UC finding, I agree, but I don't understand the basis for your comment.

[–]Dongalor 486ポイント487ポイント  (13子コメント)

There's an argument to be made for wrongful termination. By most definitions of the word, the boss stole Op's vehicle. They terminated her for failing to be complicit in the theft. Being terminated for refusing to be party to an illegal act is grounds for wrongful termination.

It's not as cut and dried as some forms of wrongful termination, but it's worth talking to a lawyer about it, and the consult should be free. "We're firing you for ratting us out for stealing your car," is beyond the pale for employer conduct.

[–]InfanticideAquifer 58ポイント59ポイント  (5子コメント)

Can you be complicit in the theft of your own property? That seems somehow odd.

[–]ArgonGryphon 149ポイント150ポイント  (0子コメント)

If I tell you to steal my car so I can claim insurance money, I think that would qualify.

[–]Edgeinsthelead 43ポイント44ポイント  (0子コメント)

In cases of fraud yes

[–]well_golly 29ポイント30ポイント  (0子コメント)

I believe in some states she may be an accessory after the fact for covering up his crime and not reporting it.

According to Cornell University (your mileage may vary):

Accessory After The Fact | Someone who assists another 1) who has committed a felony, 2) after the person has committed the felony, 3) with knowledge that the person committed the felony, and 4) with the intent to help the person avoid arrest or punishment. An accessory after the fact may be held liable for, inter alia, obstruction of justice.

[–]potpro 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes absolutely. Want to get a insurance settlement on your shitty lemon? Be complicit in the theft of your car by someone you know. Super insurance fraud

[–]MNPara 112ポイント113ポイント  (2子コメント)

MN has an exception that covers this situation, what happened here is absolutely wrong and reprehensible. Very simple case for a lawyer if everything is as presented. The fact that they documented the reason for firing makes this a cakewalk.

[–]FallenAngelII 23ポイント24ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm curious as to what this exception is. Could you link me to it?

[–]thagorn 83ポイント84ポイント  (0子コメント)

IANAL and haven't found anything super clear cut but it looks to me like it may violate whistleblower laws as written:

M.S.A. § 181.932 1

An employer shall not discharge, discipline, threaten, otherwise discriminate against, or penalize an employee regarding the employee's compensation, terms, conditions, location, or privileges of employment because:
(1) the employee, or a person acting on behalf of an employee, in good faith, reports a violation, suspected violation, or planned violation of any federal or state law or common law or rule adopted pursuant to law to an employer or to any governmental body or law enforcement official;
...

[1] https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=181.932

[–]TheShadowKick 49ポイント50ポイント  (0子コメント)

She was fired for calling the police about her stolen car.

[–]sportif11 50ポイント51ポイント  (0子コメント)

Retaliatory action, wrongful termination, hostile workplace.

[–]Bob_Sconce 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

Falls within MN's Whistleblower Protection Act.

[–]jarinatorman 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Extortion maybe? If you view it from the point of view of "let me keep your car or you're fired"?

[–]Edgeinsthelead 52ポイント53ポイント  (0子コメント)

Definitely appeal. I've yet to meet anyone who was given unemployment without having to appeal. They always side with the business first. Which is bullshit but that's the way it goes.

[–]BarkingLeopard 185ポイント186ポイント  (0子コメント)

Definitely appeal the unemployment, and explicitly (but politely) request a hearing before a judge. Show them evidence that you reported your car stolen, and that your boss was arrested for stealing your car.

IANAL, but career advice for OP: In many career fields and locations, references aren't checked very often, so I wouldn't sweat that. Whatever you do, however, be VERY professional about why you left your previous employer, and don't blast your boss. A simple, "I was let go because I reported my car stolen, and management disagreed with that," followed by a sentence praising your previous employer (talk about what you learned or enjoyed doing there, as part of your pitch) should suffice. If you get follow up questions, feel free to say that your boss was pulled over driving your car after it was reported stolen, but keep it very matter of fact and upbeat, and try not to give your former boss and company the verbal blasting that they deserve.

[–]Mybz1018 142ポイント143ポイント  (0子コメント)

And he went in you purse!! What an invasion of privacy!!

[–]Tyr_Tyr 720ポイント721ポイント  (1子コメント)

You definitely should get unemployment. Do appeal. At the initial stage if the employer says "fired for cause" that's sufficient, but if you appeal they have to explain exactly what that cause is, and why it's a legitimate reason to fire you.

Your boss is a moron, because that's not how "borrowing" works. He stole your car. Full stop. You are not psychic and I don't see how you could've known, without someone telling you what was going on. (And even so, they could've ASKED not taken.)

[–]Bureaucromancer 87ポイント88ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wouldn't there be some cause of action for wrongful denial of unemployment in a case like this as well?

[–]hella_good_memes 1031ポイント1032ポイント  (0子コメント)

Appeal your unemployment decision. They are commonly denied the first time, but there is no reason why you shouldn't be receiving it for something ridiculous like this.

[–]stolencarthrowaway16[S] 816ポイント817ポイント  (53子コメント)

If I appeal the unemployment, can the company sue? The dismissal letter says legal action will be taken against me if I contest their misconduct ruling and my bosses boss called me and said they will sue if I appeal the unemployment or do anything else to "make the company look bad". I don't have money to pay a lawyer if I'm sued or the company if I lose the lawsuit. Sorry if this is a stupid question but I have no idea about how any of this works.

[–]A_Soporific 1357ポイント1358ポイント  (30子コメント)

Sue you for what?

Your boss stole your car. You reported it to the authorities. There is no misconduct on your part. The company looks bad because the company is doing stupid and illegal things. Besides, reporting crimes to the authorities is privileged, and can't be grounds for a civil suit.

They're trying to scare you. Don't be scared, they have no basis for anything. Besides, if you don't have the money to pay a judgement then they are the ones who lose. Being poor isn't a crime, if you have nothing to repay then they simply will go without. But, the idea that they would win such a lawsuit is patently absurd.

Their lawyers would have a fit if they had any idea that your bosses said that. I hope you have a recording or get them to send you the same statements in a letter. That would be priceless.

[–]stolencarthrowaway16[S] 555ポイント556ポイント  (22子コメント)

Thank you. I feel better after reading this. I don't have a recording of the call because I wasn't expecting him to call me but I do have a copy of the letter. I see about appealing the unemployment decision on Monday.

[–]Dongalor 742ポイント743ポイント  (1子コメント)

You really should sit down for a consult with an employment lawyer and explain this whole situation to them. Most will give you a half hour consult for free, and if they feel you have a case, they will likely take it on contingency.

That means you pay nothing out of pocket, they take a portion of the money they recover for you to cover their fees, and you owe nothing if you lose. This story is crazy enough that you might have a case, and there's really no downside to getting a consult.

[–]Tommy_Riordan 181ポイント182ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is the best advice in the thread. Do this, do it right away. I would love to take on a case with these facts (not licensed in MN though sorry).

[–]A_Soporific 344ポイント345ポイント  (3子コメント)

I, quite frankly, would love to see the look on their faces when they talk to their lawyers about suing you.

[–]BlatantConservative 239ポイント240ポイント  (2子コメント)

"You did WHAT? Is this related to Jim and the stolen car thing?"

[–]trekologer 187ポイント188ポイント  (1子コメント)

"...and you put it in writing?!?!?!"

[–]bellhead1970 99ポイント100ポイント  (0子コメント)

All the while Rubbing their hands together in delight thinking of all the billing hours,

[–]TheLZ 167ポイント168ポイント  (0子コメント)

NAL To add to the great advice, make sure your submit a copy of the police report with your appeal and a letter of explanation of why it is important to your appeal (short and concise, with the basics: car missing at end of work day, report stolen, discover keys are missing as well and reported new info, boss found the following day with car, no clue why he had it and you needed car to get home and run errands, etc., would have said no if he had asked to borrower it).

[–]k9centipede 76ポイント77ポイント  (0子コメント)

Take a screenshot of the phone call log on your phone and write out as many details of the conversation as you can. That'll work as decent proof in the future. Make sure date and time and phone number is included

[–]DjQball 70ポイント71ポイント  (0子コメント)

For the love of God give us an update please.

[–]chisleu 72ポイント73ポイント  (0子コメント)

They are going to come at you with an offer to make it all go away. Push it with the unemployment. When that goes your way, and it will, push for a Dept. of Labor inquiry.

You are owed damages. They will likely attempt to settle quickly to prevent bad press, because if the DOL gets into it, it is going to be all over the news.

[–]RadiumGirl 53ポイント54ポイント  (2子コメント)

IANAL, but I would imagine that even if he hadn't taken your car the fact that he went through your handbag would be completely in breach of your companies expectation of conduct.

[–]garrypig 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

Real quick, what are NAL and IANAL?

[–]RadiumGirl 23ポイント24ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not a lawyer/I am not a lawyer

[–]cjackc 39ポイント40ポイント  (0子コメント)

This just shows that they know they fucked up and are already trying to cover their ass. Suing you would only make this more public, and they can't sue for damages caused by them suing you. They The charges against you manager will already be public, and make the company look terrible.

Unless they have VERY good proof that you lied in some way they have nothing. Even more so because they are threatening you for taking part in your own legal rights (proving a trend even more). Libel, Slander, and defamation are very hard cases to win in America.

[–]BarkingLeopard 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

If it helps, most state unemployment agencies are very pro-employee in my anecdotal experience. I know people in FL who have received unemployment benefits even after being fired for STEALING from their employers.

Some states have walk-in unemployment offices where you can talk to someone from the unemployment agency in person, get advice, and get things ironed out. If you have the time, it would be a tremendous boost to your confidence to talk to someone about your situation and get their thoughts. I couldn't find any walk-in unemployment offices for MN with a quick Google, but you could try calling or visiting a WorkForce Center near you and see if they can point you towards resources to help with the unemployment decision appeal process.

[–]ShavedWookiee 16ポイント17ポイント  (1子コメント)

Last year or so as a small business owner I had to appeal an ex-employee's unemployment. We just had to do a conference call and I had to provide evidence of his infractions. I know of no legal recourse they are talking about unless they think fraud for filing a false case but I have never heard of that, ever.

[–]Dongalor 54ポイント55ポイント  (0子コメント)

They've got Op pegged as naive and are throwing scary words at her to make her go away. That's it. I doubt they are delusional enough to think they could actually bring a suit, but they may very well hit her with a nastygram on something resembling legal stationary to spook her.

[–]DrMikeTyson 60ポイント61ポイント  (0子コメント)

Their lawyers would have a fit if they had any idea that your bosses said that.

This so much. If OP gets a competent lawyer this won't even have to go to trial, the settlement is going to be huge.

Edit: also OP this might not work, but you should definitely try and tell the district attorney that you were fired for this. It'll probably make him/her less inclined to cut a sweet plea for the GTA (even if they tell you it doesn't matter).

[–]well_golly 30ポイント31ポイント  (0子コメント)

The company is helping him steal a car, by threatening her into silence. It almost sounds like we're sliding into RICO territory here.

[–]Dreamydory 240ポイント241ポイント  (1子コメント)

  1. Appeal the unemployment. They almost ALWAYS deny it the first time.
  2. Continue pressing charges against your former boss.
  3. They shouldn't try to sue you. I'd like to see a lawyer take THAT case.
  4. Don't answer any more phone calls from them. Let it all go to voicemail and save those recordings of them trying to threaten/harass you.

[–]chris_mac_d 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

all of this.

[–]ButterDream 60ポイント61ポイント  (1子コメント)

They aren't cops or judges; their "misconduct ruling" doesn't mean anything to anybody. It is also your right to appeal denial of unemployment.

Let them sue you. If they do (that means, if you are actually served legal papers that say something like "YOU ARE BEING SUED" or whatever it is in MN, not just them blowing more hot air), if it is in small claims court you don't need a lawyer, just go yourself and bring all your copies of everything. Otherwise you will need a lawyer but they might be able to get their fees paid by your ex-employer (since such a case would just scream bad faith; the dude took your car without permission! What was he thinking would happen?!)

[–]cjackc 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

If they were stupid enough to do this, no way would it end up in small claims court.

[–]112013 182ポイント183ポイント  (4子コメント)

Can they sue? Yes. Will they win? I want to say 'no fucking way,' but I'll go with 'probably not' instead.

Edit: Also don't let them intimidate you in regards to the car theft case. It is NOT normal at all to take someone's car without permission because yours is in the shop. Sane people would get a rental or a courtesy car.

[–]Grave_Girl 124ポイント125ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm glad someone said this. OP needs to not back down on the "my car was stolen" thing, because that is exactly what happened and I'd be willing to be they're counting on her to recant and make this all go away.

[–]DrMikeTyson 28ポイント29ポイント  (0子コメント)

Also, like someone said above, let all their calls regarding the theft go to VM. If they are stupid enough to actually threaten you to withdraw the charges that's a serious felony.

[–]lic05 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

The boss could have even asked for a ride if he was desperate, but taking an employee owned car without permission isn't normal in any place, any culture in the world. This is fucking bananas and I hope OP bleed them out in Court.

[–]PhotonicDoctor 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

A good person would ask first and if there is an accident for example someone else ran into you, you as a boss would pay for the car being fixed. Now that is a good boss who takes care of his people who work for him. This boss and the owners are scumbags. You have the money get a rental or whatever. Taking keys from an employee without permission is stealing.

[–]Accujack 116ポイント117ポイント  (1子コメント)

Speaking as an MN resident and long time worker in the state (who is not a lawyer) you should get yourself a lawyer, then celebrate, because your former employer screwed up big time.

The company put all that crap in your dismissal letter to try to scare you. They're just trying to bully you into being silent. They want you to be afraid so you won't exercise your own rights and nail them to the wall. They think they can do this because you're young and female.

A competent attorney in this state can find many, many things they've done to you that will make them liable for a large amount of money. Starting with an unjust dismissal from the job, they are also affecting your future job prospects by refusing you a letter of recommendation. They may in fact be criminally liable for attempting to silence you, and they're incredibly stupid for documenting all this in a letter.

So get a lawyer... any competent one will not only get you compensation for lost salary, but probably a big damages award too for the way this company treated you. Given how much of a slam dunk case it will probably be, there might even be lawyers willing to take the case for a percentage of the eventual award.

Additionally, your lawyer can discuss with you whether the company should be reported to the attorney general of MN for its actions... depending on a lot of things, the AG may wish to investigate this. Them trying to shut you up by threatening legal action may constitute witness tampering depending on the specifics of your car theft.

Don't be sad you lost your job, you deserve to work at a better place than your former employer. Don't get too wrapped around the idea of not getting a letter of recommendation. Those are kind of an antiquated concept in today's job market, depending on exactly what you do.

When you get through everything, make sure you update this thread with the name of your former employer. Any place that treats their employees like that doesn't deserve any business from anyone in the State.

Edit: One more thing. It sounds like this might be a small-ish accounting firm. If that's the case, you really have them by the (insert sensitive body part here). If this is the case, be sure to have your soon-to-be attorney also review professional conduct standards for your profession. They may have violated those, too.

[–]BarkingLeopard 42ポイント43ポイント  (0子コメント)

Good point on the professional conduct piece. I am sure that the CFA / CPA / CFP / whatever licensing group would love to know that someone with a license or certification from their professional group was arrested for grand theft auto.

[–]NewMachinist22 44ポイント45ポイント  (0子コメント)

Appeal it, report that you were intimidated into not appealing during your appeal and to the labor board.

[–]artoink 21ポイント22ポイント  (0子コメント)

They can sue you, but I just can't see them winning. You're allowed to appeal your unemployment and you pressing charges for a crime someone committed is hardly defamation, so I don't see what case they would have.

[–]MidnightMateor 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

Appeal it. They're just trying to intimidate you, because they know they don't have a legal leg to stand on.

[–]cjackc 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

If anything it further shows a pattern of them punishing people for exercising their legal rights.

[–]PhotonicDoctor 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes they want to scare you. Do not let them walk all over you. You can get the unemployment and look for another job. You will be fine. But do not settle with them if they offer to give you the job back. They will be assholes to you the entire time you are there and will drive you crazy so you quit. And besides why would you even want to work with those scumbags anyway. They are not respecting you as a person so end of story. Lawsuit, settle for some amount, get your unemployment so you can look for another job and forget about them. One day, they will get what's coming to them either way.

[–]PilgramDouglas 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

IANAL.

It's my understanding that you can be sued for anything, but that does not mean they other party will win. In this scenario I doubt your former employer would follow through and even if they did you should be able to win (and maybe even receive your own legal costs) any lawsuit that was filed against you. I would also suggest you speak with your local Department of Labor about this issue.

Ohh and when you appeal your unemployment, make sure to provide copies of that dismissal letter.

[–]danweber 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

The dismissal letter says legal action will be taken against me if I contest their misconduct ruling

People put lots of bullshit in letters.

Unfortunately, it looks like it's not illegal for them to threaten you like this: https://trepanierlaw.com/no-protection-from-unemployment-retaliation/

"The Minnesota Court of Appeals recently held that employees are not protected from retaliation by their employers for seeking unemployment benefits."

[–]The_Original_Gronkie 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

The first thing to understand is that nearly everything the management of your company does is wrong, and nearly everything they say is a lie. They seem to break the law so casually that they don't even realize theyre doing it. Intimidation seems to be standard operating procedure. So stop worrying about anything they say. Get a lawyer on contingency and go after them full force.

[–]CallingYouOut2 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's an empty threat. DO not let your boss off the hook either. He stole your car.

[–]Ubiquity4321 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

You better find a good, shark lawyer. Start writing EVERYTHING down, and getting EVERYTHING related to this whatsoever all put together.

Appeal the unemployment decision. Make copies of all documents. Don't talk to him except by written form. Let 'em sue.

[–]spongebue 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

They can sue for anything, doesn't mean that they will actually do it, nor does it mean they will win. Most likely, they would try to sue for slander and libel. If your statements are truthful, you've got a pretty good defense right there. Stay as non-speculative as possible. Rather than saying "my boss stole my car" you can say "my car went missing, police found boss driving it the next day, I pressed charges, and was fired as a result" - basically, only things supported by police report or what they've said.

Not a lawyer.

[–]0rangePod 273ポイント274ポイント  (6子コメント)

For clarification: is this your car, or a company car assigned to you?

[–]stolencarthrowaway16[S] 358ポイント359ポイント  (5子コメント)

It's my own car. The company is financial company and doesn't have company cars because anyone who needs us comes to us, and we don't ever have to go out anywhere as part of our jobs.

[–]yougottasliceitright 359ポイント360ポイント  (2子コメント)

How did he expect you to get home without your car?

[–]fireduck 254ポイント255ポイント  (0子コメント)

You see, you own employees. If you have to inconvenience one of them, they should feel honored that you would be willing to use them in that way. It is a compliment if the boss sees fit to drive you pleb roach infested Fiesta.

[–]geekygirl23 226ポイント227ポイント  (0子コメント)

You need to call a wrongful termination lawyer for your state. They will know exactly if you should sue and if you could win but you were fired for bullshit. Two things.

There are a number of states that have laws that prohibit employers from terminating employees when the terminations are in violation of public policy. In other words, these laws stop employers from firing employees for reasons that the public would find morally reprehensible or ethically wrong. These laws are often difficult for employers to follow, as morals and ethics are subjective and will vary from state to state. It is not uncommon for some state laws to differ form the laws of other states.

However, despite this subjectivity, there are some common themes that are found in many states' laws. Many states agree that the following would be in violation of public policy:

*Terminating an employee because he or she refused to commit an illegal act that was ordered of her by a superior (such as refusing to destroy documents that must be maintained according to state or federal law).

  • Terminating an employee because the employee complained about his or her employer's illegal activities (such as firing an employee that made a complaint to the federal government about his employer's illegal dumping of toxic materials). These laws are often referred to as "whistleblower statutes."

  • Terminating an employee because the employee exercised his or her legal right (such as taking a permissible family leave).

http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/employment-law-and-human-resources/wrongful-termination-laws-illegal-reasons.html

And your state does have a public policy exception. Would have to look at other case law to see how defined it is by the courts and I don't have time but a lawyer will either know or be glad to look.

See Exhibit 1 on right.

http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2001/01/art1full.pdf

[–]purplegrog 58ポイント59ポイント  (0子コメント)

(not a lawyer. this is not legal advice, simply entertaining conjecture)

Considering you're out of a job, you may have difficulty doing this, but you may want to consider consulting a lawyer. Not for the unemployment claim (which you should win on appeal, IMHO), but to consider whether the boss and/or the company has any punitive culpability here.

Think about it. You were at work. While at work, your direct supervisor STOLE your keys. While still at work, your boss, having stolen your keys then STOLE your car, your only means of transportation and what is for many their single most valuable asset. As a result of his actions, you lost your job after taking the extremely reasonable action of reporting the car stolen. Now you are out of a job, have trust issues, can't think about this situation without crushing anxiety/depression, etc.

maybe you can find someone willing to take it on contingency?

[–]giraffekickball 1060ポイント1061ポイント  (8子コメント)

"how things work in the professional world"? Your boss's boss is an idiot.

[–]NewMachinist22 325ポイント326ポイント  (1子コメント)

She didn't read the auto theft clause in her contract.

[–]mattyjd 95ポイント96ポイント  (0子コメント)

The "Dumbass management" rider allows them to ignore the contract and make up their own rules only they can understand.

[–]darcerin 149ポイント150ポイント  (1子コメント)

If I were told that just anyone could go into my purse the day I started at my job, "because that's how things work in the professional world", I would have walked out. That's ludicrous.

[–]ziekktx 68ポイント69ポイント  (0子コメント)

Op could just imbezzle from the company until she can replace her vehicle, "because that's just how things work in the professional world."

Obviously /s.

[–]Accujack 50ポイント51ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's his way of saying "In my own delusional world I can treat young female employees like dirt, because I'm the boss".

Yep, he's an idiot. Soon to be a much less wealthy idiot.

[–]syriquez 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

On the bright side, OP is no longer in there. Working for them almost certainly was going to head towards being a shitshow or an even worse exchange than their boss stealing their damn car.

[–]2OP4me 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah... The fuck is wrong with her? This is so strange and the people seem to be all giant assholes.

[–]Laborer76 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Obviously you haven't seen "The Apartment".

[–]Conquistador_Kitty 198ポイント199ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm an employment law paralegal in mn. Go to nela.org and call an attorney in Minneapolis on Monday. This is the craziest shit I've ever heard. Don't be freaked out, people are assholes and they are just trying to scare you. Appeal the unemployment online asap and they'll schedule a phone hearing in a few weeks.

[–]negot8or 234ポイント235ポイント  (1子コメント)

First, you're going to want to talk with a lawyer because MN (unlike many other states), has CIVIL liability for theft (https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=604.14). That means that apart from the CRIMINAL issue, you have a private cause of action against your boss for the theft - up to the value of your car PLUS punitive damages of 100% of the value of the car (so, total, 200% of the value of the car).

Second, it appears you can simply mail a demand letter for the damages. I would do this ASAP. But if you hire a lawyer, they're going to take a percentage of what you recover - so you might want to try this path first. And if not successful, let the lawyer do the subsequent steps.

Third, the criminal case is out of your hands in terms of whether it's prosecuted. But you should not avoid being a witness.

Fourth, find a DIFFERENT lawyer to sue for wrongful termination as a result of retaliation (one of two basis, the other being discrimination). An employment lawyer who also does civil work MIGHT be able to handle both things, but you will need to ask them if they practice both areas of law.

Overall, you're about to have a field day with this.

But. If you're in a small town, you might need to consider moving. You're able (and justified) in bringing the hammer down, but there can always be hidden costs... and if your bosses boss is well-connected, finding a new job could be tricky.

Good luck!

[–]Accujack 76ポイント77ポイント  (0子コメント)

Overall, you're about to have a field day with this.

Worth repeating.

[–]biCamelKase 68ポイント69ポイント  (0子コメント)

Appeal the unemployment rejection. Submit a copy of the police report regarding the theft of your car, along with the court record of your boss' arraignment, along with the letter of dismissal showing the idiocy of your boss' boss. Then collect unemployment, look for a new job, have a good laugh, and look forward to having a good story to tell your friends... If you're lucky you might even get to testify at your boss' criminal trial -- assuming he doesn't plead guilty.

[–]TheAlmightyice 121ポイント122ポイント  (2子コメント)

Curious: If you fire someone for reporting a crime that happened to them by another employee of yours because you wanted to protect the perpetrator of said crime could you be considered an accomplice to the crime or a conspiritor? Seems that her employers knowingly got involved in criminal misconduct. IANAL but I'd assume there is some sort of law on the books that would allow her to file a police report against the higher ups.

Edit* Follow up question: Could she also take them to small claims for the hours she was stuck at work, reimbursement of gas and mileage, and additional expenses occured by this company backed theft?

[–]Lampwick 25ポイント26ポイント  (0子コメント)

could you be considered an accomplice to the crime or a conspiritor?

Unlikely. Generally the minimum requirement for that is them acting in furtherance of the crime.

[–]MacSev 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Could she also take them to small claims for the hours she was stuck at work, reimbursement of gas and mileage, and additional expenses occured by this company backed theft?

The company didn't incur any of those costs, so it'd be hard to pin it on them. Theoretically she could sue the boss for those things, but frankly there are probably bigger fish to fry than a few charges in the tens of dollars.

[–]poopingalldaylong 50ポイント51ポイント  (1子コメント)

9/10 time labor board will side with employee. Only true misconduct by the employee will get denied in appeal.

[–]danweber 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes. The general standard is that the employer has to prove pretty reliably it was for cause, and there's no way the employer wants to draw attention to this. Even if they did, it would never win.

[–]Bob_Sconce 43ポイント44ポイント  (0子コメント)

"How things work in the professional world" is that bosses don't help themselves to the cars of their employees.

(1) In Minnesota, you can request, in writing, a reason for your termination and they have to give you a truthful one. The request needs to be made within about 2 week so f the termination.

(2) Termination somebody for reporting a violation of law is a violation of Minnesota's whistleblower protection act. You can sue for that.

[–]truemeliorist 84ポイント85ポイント  (1子コメント)

The reason on my letter of dismissal was for showing disloyalty to the company. My bosses boss says I need to learn how things work in the professional world.

As someone who works for a fortune 500 company, I can assure you that that is not how things work in the professional world. As our XVP would put it - his not having access to a car is his problem, not the company's, not yours or anyone elses.

Stay the course. Also, retain an attorney because you have the makings of an incredible lawsuit. Most attorneys will give a consult for free. There is absolutely a civil case.

[–]danweber 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just to make sure OP knows, there's no way this is normal. Even the most abusive workplace doesn't do this.

[–]redundantexplanation 34ポイント35ポイント  (0子コメント)

My bosses boss says I need to learn how things work in the professional world.

Your boss and his boss need to be taught a lesson about how things work in the legal world.

[–]domestic_lobster 22ポイント23ポイント  (0子コメント)

Straight from the MN statutes on theft. " takes or drives a motor vehicle without the consent of the owner or an authorized agent of the owner, knowing or having reason to know that the owner or an authorized agent of the owner did not give consent."

You're boss committed a crime whether he believes he did or not. It seems like you have strong ground to stand on for wrongful termination.

[–]machine667 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm sending this to my buddy who works management-side employment law just to remind him that at some point in the future he'll be given a set of facts like this to work with.

What a fucking complete shitshow. OP, call a goddamned employment lawyer. A good one, don't just call some sole prac. Find out the best employee-side firm in town and call them. You should get a free consult (don't count on it but it'll likely be worth it: if you can't afford it tell them as much and there might be a workaround) and unless there's something you're omitting they should take the case.

In Ontario you'd at least get notice, which is bugger-all, but I'd bet that they'd give Wallace/Keyes-style punitive damages for the independent actionable wrong of fucking stealing your car and then badmouthing your name.

[–]cacille 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Your boss's boss said that you need to learn how things work in the professional world. Oh. my. god.

I only know of one profession where it is cool to drive each other's cars. One. It sure as hell isn't your job, it's very, very specialized.

Your boss's boss said that because he could, as an excuse that he could manage to get away with because you are young. There is NO COMPANY save that one I happen to know about, where it's cool to trade cars. It sure as hell isn't a "normal business practice" nor any sort of "professional world" thing. He is simply using that because you are young and don't really know yet of all the professional world things. What he said was bullshit designed to make you feel that you may have been in the wrong. You aren't. This is definitely lawyer time.

[–]scoteng 58ポイント59ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is completely unprofessional conduct on their part and is not how professional businesses work. Use this as an opportunity to find a new professional employer.

[–]calcarl796 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Your boss's boss seems to have confused "how things work in the professional world" with "how things work when employed by a narcissistic sociopath" somehow. Yikes.

I can understand why they don't want word to get out that their management feels it's ok to "borrow" other people's things without asking. That's certainly a habit I look for in a financial manager.

Had you not been fired, you'd really, really need to quit.

[–]ThatNewNewNew33 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Make his life miserable, press charges, sue him civilly also, make sure he gets stuck with a GTA charge on his record, he is a dick for firing you. If he hadnt fired you this probably could have be worked out, but he was a douche about him being a douche, so he deserves the douche treatment. Get a lawyer and show this asshole how the real world works.

[–]ucsouth 40ポイント41ポイント  (0子コメント)

IANAL.

What your boss did was illegal. You have a right to continue pressing charges, and if I were you, I would. If you felt this may have been a legitimate misunderstanding, that would have been one thing, but your employer is not entitled to your property nor should they expect you to give them your things out of loyalty.

Concerning your unemployment -- as others have stated, appeal.

"At will" employment means you can come and go from an employer freely, and they can fire you freely, but at the same time, it's against federal law to fire someone wrongfully in retaliation for reporting unlawful behavior. For most people, pursuing a company in an at-will state for wrongful termination is an uphill battle because the burden is on you to prove it, but their letter of dismissal and the timing of events paints a pretty obvious picture in your case. At the very least, I'd say it would be worth a consult with a lawyer who specializes in this and see what he/she has to say.

Personal Opinion Time: All in all, it sounds like the Good Ole Boy system was fully in place at that company. Don't let them bully you, and don't let them convince you that this is in any way normal or how "things work in the professional world."

[–]Atetoomuch 29ポイント30ポイント  (0子コメント)

Please let us know what happens. This is crazy.

[–]unmodster 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was denied unemployment once. All I had to do to appeal was fill out a form and write a letter saying why I think they screwed up. That'll get you back on your feet. You won't be unemployed forever, but unfortunately for your boss he will always be an asshole.

[–]nyiskillingme 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

consult an employment attorney. most will hear you out for free and see if there's any wrongful termination (look up retaliation termination), and most will work on the contingency that you win meaning you don't pay for their labor if you don't win.

[–]Kooderna 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Appeal unemployment, and stick with your charges on the boss stealing your car. He DID steal your car and I suggest collecting your unemployment while also pursuing charges for theft.

[–]mekender 15ポイント16ポイント  (1子コメント)

Beyond the theft and criminal acts... Isn't there a case to be made for creating a hostile work environment and invasion of privacy as a civil matter? The guy went into your purse to facilitate the commission of grand theft auto, I would be shocked if there were not some major possibilities in terms of civil action at the state and federal level for this.

[–]Dweali 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Probably not hostile work environment unless there is other stuff that OP didn't share

[–]vasion123 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

Legally yes they can fire you, and good for them for firing you so you can collect unemployment because you would have clearly quit once you found out how dumb your ex boss is. Your boss stole your car, there is no way to spin it otherwise.

[–]asshole604 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

Please please post a follow up. Nothing better than bully bosses getting charged for theft. Follow advice in here and appeal unemployment, and then sue. Their letter to you in worth a small fortune.

[–]Britzer 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

[not legal advice] It feels like they are pressuring you in the stolen vehicle case, which is a criminal case, without saying so outright, because that would be illegal. Since you are a witness, you may want to talk to the responsible party for this case (prosecutor?). They may do other things to undermine you as well.

[–]quincess 21ポイント22ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sue everyone? It sounds like you might have a case against them for wrongful termination, and distress. They are only intimidating you because they know you would win. Your boss straight up stole your car, you had every right to report him. They shouldn't have fired you, they should have fired him. The fact that you were fired for "showing disloyalty to the company" by reporting your car stolen shows how unprofessional a company they actually are.

[–]Snipeski 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

My boss stole my car. My boss stole my car.My boss stole my car. My boss stole my car.My boss stole my car. My boss stole my car.My boss stole my car. My boss stole my car.

They fired me for this

Find lawyer for free consultation and repeat this.

[–]Tweezot 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Follow through with the theft charges (if it's up to you). He probably wont go to prison if his lawyer can explain that he thought he had permission to drive your car, but the right judge could give him a fat fine and probation :)

[–]adc604 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sounds like a company you don't want to work for regardless...

[–]crazykitty123 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow, that takes some gall to go into your purse, get your keys and take your car! What an asshole. I hope he gets legally punished for that. You should be able to get unemployment for the firing at least.

[–]ScarpaDiem 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

The fuck. Time to teach some people a lesson. Don't back down!

[–]FnDork 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

MN seems to err on the side of the former employee in UI disputes. Anecdotal, but my sister works in HR (in MN) and had to fire a guy because he was abusing company email (think over 100 personal, non-business-related emails a day) she fought like hell to deny his UI, and he got it. Also, I got it despite being fired once for "insubordination and unprofessional behavior" (what can I say, I was an asshole back then).

So yes, fight it.

[–]Keninishna 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

idk wtf your boss was thinking? like oh she'll just deal with it. Is it not unreasonable to report your car stolen when.. it is actually stolen?

[–]TheCatGuardian 26ポイント27ポイント  (74子コメント)

Yes they can fire you. You can contest the denial on your unemployment.

[–]geekygirl23 -242ポイント-241ポイント  (73子コメント)

Who are you? Are you a lawyer? Is anyone here a lawyer because this thread is filled to the brim with idiocy and nobody seems to know what they are talking about.

[–]Counsel_for_RBNResident Expert in nPosters 79ポイント80ポイント  (31子コメント)

Ironic seeing that you now posted the most idiotic comment here.

[–]TheCatGuardian 22ポイント23ポイント  (3子コメント)

What is the issue with what I posted? Reporting a car stolen is not any kind of protected class so they can fire her. It is a stupid reason, but it is not illegal.

Since she was fired without any actual cause she can (and should) contest the denial of her unemployment.

This is essentially the same as what everyone else is also telling her.

[–]geekygirl23 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

The issue is that like most people on reddit you did the very minimum amount of research possible on a subject and now post as if you are well versed in it.

There are plenty of reasons you can sue and win aside from wrongful termination based on protected classes. I'm glad you learned about protected classes but that in no way should make you feel like you have further advice to offer.

Can she win a lawsuit against her employer? Depends, the laws vary by state quite a bit. But outright saying "no!" to someone looking for legal advice is the wrong thing to do. She should rightfully assume that people responding here know what in the hell they are talking about and you do not.

https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/4xpkjn/minnesota_my_boss_took_my_car_and_drove_it_home/d6hgdhe

[–]DrMikeTyson 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

Can she win a lawsuit against her employer? Depends, the laws vary by state quite a bit. But outright saying "no!" to someone looking for legal advice is the wrong thing to do.

I agree with you in this. OP can probably sue under whistleblower protection for terminations. Even if she can't win, the company will probably settle rather than facing what would be a pretty bad judgement.

[–]BlatantConservative 16ポイント17ポイント  (25子コメント)

"Talking to the police" is not a protected class, so therefore OP can legally be fired.

If someone singlehandedly stopped a terrorist attack and saved thousands of lives, their boss can still legally fire them for it.

[–]ucsouth 27ポイント28ポイント  (3子コメント)

I am strongly under the impression that reporting illegal activity IS a protected class.

Last time I checked, grand theft auto is illegal activity.

The gray line here is that it wasn't a -coworker- that stole the car, but her BOSS, and the method of OP's firing strongly suggests that this was a company-backed activity.

[–]geekygirl23 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's protected by an exception in many / most? states (but defined by case law). As it should be.

[–]jester92800 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

I love that you're lecturing all of these people for providing advice and support to the best of their abilities, just because you think you have a monopoly on research and/or advice.

I also think it's hilarious that you sit on a pedestal while moderating all of the porn subreddits, just not something that i would expect a responsible member of the ABA to be doing.

[–]geekygirl23 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (4子コメント)

I love that people like you get so offended by language and tone that the important part of a discussion is ignored. Do you see that as a plus? I'd consider it a character flaw myself.

[–]jester92800 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm not offended at all, I haven't even provided advice here, I just stumbled in from /r/all. I'm a teacher, not a lawyer. I'm just marveling at your rhetoric and language, because it's the single most ineffective way I've seen an adult (which you must be if you've been married for over two decades) communicate advice in my life.

I don't know if this is news to you, but in the real world rhetoric, tone, construction, etc. are almost if not more important than the content of your opinion itself. At the end of the day, no one on the planet is going to critically analyze or adopt an opinion that you hold if the overriding message of your comments is off-putting and condescending. Instead, people will assume that you are not worth their energy, and find someone more mature to interact with-- which is what I am now going to do (though I fully expect you to compulsive reply to me again within 5 minutes with another immature and condescending comment).

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    [–]geekygirl23 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I don't know if this is news to you, but in the real world rhetoric, tone, construction, etc. are almost if not more important than the content of your opinion itself.

    In the real world you don't get to decide how information is delivered to you. You will have nice bosses that carefully explain why you are stupid and mean bosses that will stick it up your ass.

    At the end of the day, no one on the planet is going to critically analyze or adopt an opinion that you hold if the overriding message of your comments is off-putting and condescending.

    This is patently false. At the end of the day, most people on reddit are not going to critically analyze or adopt an opinion contrary to their own ever. At least not publicly admit to it.

    Instead, people will assume that you are not worth their energy, and find someone more mature to interact with-- which is what I am now going to do (though I fully expect you to compulsive reply to me again within 5 minutes with another immature and condescending comment).

    Too late to claim that angle, we've already carried out a brief conversation. You know where I stand, I know where you stand.

    We're having weather!

    [–]Saggy_Slumberchops 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Lol @ you.

    [–]SavageSavant -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

    My employer fired me for reasons I think are unfair and may be a wrongful termination. What can I do? Minnesota is an employment "at will" state. The employer can fire any employee for any reason as long as that reason is not illegal. If you feel you were terminated because of discrimination based on race, creed, color, sex, national origin, ancestry, religion, age, disability, sexual orientation or marital status, contact the Minnesota Department of Human Rights at (651) 296-5663 or 1-800-657-3704.

    http://www.dli.mn.gov/ls/FaqTerm.asp

    [–]geekygirl23 -4ポイント-3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Hey look, you did exactly what /u/TheCatGuardian did which is the bare minimum of research needed to know something on the subject. Now let me help you out.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/4xpkjn/minnesota_my_boss_took_my_car_and_drove_it_home/d6hgdhe

    [–]SavageSavant 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Yeah except that depends on if you treat a non-work related investigation as a protected class and as far as I've seen no example lists investigations outside of work as protected, but if you have evidence, please point me there.

    [–]geekygirl23 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    She was fired with company loyalty cited. It was in direct response to her taking a legal action she has every right to take. The employer is wrong, they will lose a lawsuit (settle more likely) and I don't care either way.

    [–]dublbagn 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    well you need to get a lawyer, you have 2 things to fight here (being wrongfully terminated and your boss stealing your car), but the shitty thing is that you are out of a job and will need to get another job to help pay for your lawyer. My guess is that you go to one of those we dont get paid until you do type places. Maybe the ACLU will take your case.

    [–]PhotonicDoctor 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    While not a legal advice on my behalf, do not make anyone boss, owner, any person walk all over you. Never give anyone that opportunity and never accept their lame ass excuses. He took your car without permission and legally speaking he stole your car. Get a lawyer.

    [–]nighthawk_md 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Is this a real company or a criminal front? How did your idiot boss get your keys, anyway? Would you have lent him your car if he had asked you lime normal person?

    [–]Becauseimoldenough 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

    he took the keys out of my purse.

    From the post.

    [–]Geofferic 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Just appeal and get a labor lawyer. Minnesota is not a right-to-work state - you have a lot of rights. I don't practice in MN, but I would be shocked if you don't have a very serious claim.

    [–]MNPara -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    You definitely need to see a lawyer that has experience with wrongful termination. If you need suggestions on a good one PM me your location and I'll recommend someone. Minnesota law includes language to protect employees from situations like the one you described and your employer is doing themselves no favors by threatening you.

    [–]demystnot a yinz[M] 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Please don't ask for PM's or give personal attorney recommendations.

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