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The Sacrifices of 'Good Graphics' (i.cubeupload.com)

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トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]Raven_of_Blades 1127ポイント1128ポイント  (58子コメント)

I love Morrowind... But Vivec is just a copy paste of the same building with the exact same interiors. All filled with NPCs with the exact same dialogue.

[–]Auctoritate 413ポイント414ポイント  (23子コメント)

Yeah, Elder Scrolls is guilty of this pretty often. At least in Skyrim basically every shopkeeper had a little bit of dialogue, even if it was something like Belethor who didn't really have dialogue options.

[–]Unchosen1 286ポイント287ポイント  (3子コメント)

But we know Sigurd, who works for Belethor at the General Goods Store, has quite a few lines of dialog

[–]niniipie 50ポイント51ポイント  (0子コメント)

That was amazing. Thank you for sharing.

[–]Auctoritate 39ポイント40ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly! He only has 3 lines in the whole game, but at least they're unique lines.

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    [–]rationalcomment 113ポイント114ポイント  (15子コメント)

    His main point is silly because Morrowind was considered vastly more representative of "good graphics" in it's day than Skyrim. Skyrim was already looking aged when it was released in 2011, this was actually one of the most common complaints about the game and why graphical/texture mods were so abundant. Morrowind on the other hand required a beast computer to run on max and I remember having my blown by the water shader in that game.

    Vivec is actually a bad example of a city in Morrowind, Balmora and Suran and Ald'Ruhn and others are much better examples of why Morrowind was better in it's world design.

    EDIT: Also since we're talking about Skyrim I'd like to hand out a PSA: Everyone should go and download Enderal, which just released yesterday after 5 years in development. Its a massive 8GB total conversion mod with a whole new world to explore, at least 30 hours in quests, professional voice acting, a whole new soundtrack, tons of gameplay improvements (including several other mods as part of the package, such as SkyUI) and a much harder difficulty level. It's made by SureAI, the same team that gave us Nehrim for Oblivion.

    It's very professionally done and the quests are much better than vanilla Skyrim, with a more interesting story. They could charge for this, yet it's completely free.

    [–]Auctoritate 18ポイント19ポイント  (8子コメント)

    Of course Vivec is a bad example of a city, that's because Vivec is a dude! /s

    [–]oldgrumpyman 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

    As much as I love Morrowind, it's true. I had a brand new 1.4 ghz Athlon at the time. I even remember PC Gamer making a few jokes about the steep requirements back in the day.

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      [–]ThoughtsAtRandom 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

      The voice actor for every other male character in Skyrim

      [–]Azotherian 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

      "Do you go to the Cloud District very often? Oh, what am I saying? Of course you don't"

      I heard that line everytime I fast traveled to White Run

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        [–]Krindus 66ポイント67ポイント  (1子コメント)

        It certainly made navigation a pain in the ass. Trying to find a specific npc when all the buildings look exactly the same. At the same time, even though it was huge and expansive, it felt small. I think Oblivion and Skyrim do a much better job of making a small town seem larger than it is. Even traveling short distances seem like they are far away, despite a short travel time. Castles look huge in the distance, and still feel rather large up close, even if there are only a handful of NPCs that occupy it. Almost as if there exists plenty of locations and npcs that are just unavailable to see and interact with.

        [–]LordYorric 117ポイント118ポイント  (16子コメント)

        There seems to be a recent trend of jacking off to Morrowind because it's better than Skyrim without actually considering what truly makes it better. The city of Vivec feels fucking deserted when you are running around in it, but OP doesn't mention that...

        [–]oogmar 14ポイント15ポイント  (4子コメント)

        I just picked up Witcher III a few weeks ago and Novigraad consistently blows my mind. I don't care that it's dozens of poor townspeople and Shadowy figures over and over again, it feels like a city.

        [–]TheRoamingNomad 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

        Well yes... Love both TES games and Witcher games. I think the Withcer 3 is amazing. But to be fair it's also newer than Skyrim.

        [–]wipeout4wh 34ポイント35ポイント  (7子コメント)

        I'd rather jack off to Skyrim, honestly. There's much better mod support, and high resolution textures and models.

        [–]hidora 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

        And there's no loverslab section for morrowind, so it's a lot easier to jack off to skyrim ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

        [–]CirclleySquare 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

        There is, at least the have nude textures in morrowind.

        [–]shangrila500 18ポイント19ポイント  (3子コメント)

        There's much better mod support, and high resolution textures and models.

        Morrowind has HD resolutions and textures as well, they just don't look as good thanks to something to do with the engine. The amount of mods for Morrowind is simply ridiculous as well, the reason Skyrim still has such great support is because it is the newest TES game but Morrowind had that same support and has some of the most amazing mods I have ever seen in any game.

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          [–]ThatFuh_Qr 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

          I preferred the bartering and friendly/unfriendly dynamic of Morrowind over the one in Skyrim.

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            [–]OccamsBroadsword 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

            Morrowind does have better romance, though...

            [–]Pacmandevil 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I dont think you have seen how far modding has come.

            [–]Capspar 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Obviously a better love story than Twilight

            [–]crazed3raser 31ポイント32ポイント  (5子コメント)

            Yeah, this argument of why older games are better is stupid. I love Morrowind too, but Skyrim had cities with actual personality. Almost every NPC was unique, aside from the voice actors for the same races. Whereas Morrowind cities has 20+ generic filler NPCs that all said the same thing and had no other purpose. Plus, like you said, Vivec buildings were the exact same interiors for the most part.

            How about instead of shitting on new games for stupid nostalgia we enjoy them for the benefits they provide?

            [–]nubosis 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Vivec was also just a nightmare to walk around

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              [–]patatahooligan 1248ポイント1249ポイント  (161子コメント)

              It's not about "good graphics" as Skyrim wasn't particularly demanding even when new. It's about being able to create big quantities of unique content. Having 330 NPCs with very little dialogue done by the same 4 voice actors, because that's how many the budget allow, and wearing variations of the same outfit because that's what the design team had time to come up with wouldn't have offered anything to the experience of playing Skyrim.

              [–]evilplantosaveworld 98ポイント99ポイント  (19子コメント)

              The voice actor thing is the one hing I hate about voiced RPGs, in skyrim it was tolerable but still annoying, in Oblivion I should have just turned voices off, the fact that you would hear people just having conversations with themselves while you walked down the street because there were so few voice actors drove me insane.

              [–]dnew 53ポイント54ポイント  (4子コメント)

              And if you're going to interact with a follower, give that follower at least three different ways to complain that you opened their inventory.

              [–]dating_derp 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

              Mass Effect and Witcher seem to do it well.

              [–]TheRoamingNomad 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

              Sorry but the Witcher does it pretty much the same.

              Every other beggar in Novigrad, all day, every day: "Ooooh pretty boyyyyyyyyy...... What I gotta dooooooo.... to get a nice PALLER like yours?"

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                  [–]Footyking 340ポイント341ポイント  (100子コメント)

                  but there is a counter argument to be made that without a critical volume of people the world feels too empty or small.

                  [–]anderssi 328ポイント329ポイント  (27子コメント)

                  I remember assaulting whiterun with the rebels, the army considted of myself and like 5 soldiers. It really was pathetic. World of warcraft has the same problem. Big ass army = 6 orcs

                  [–]zuperpretty 118ポイント119ポイント  (15子コメント)

                  Not anymore, demonic invasions are sick. 50 people flying to and storming an area with hundreds of demons.

                  [–]Paranitis 57ポイント58ポイント  (2子コメント)

                  Or in my case, 50 people flying to and storming an a...r...e...a.....w...i...t...h........ aaaaaaaaaaand I'm dead.

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                    [–]minibum 21ポイント22ポイント  (3子コメント)

                    Remember you said orc. That is easily three times as many humans.

                    [–]Sparkybear 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Someone doesn't remember Burning Crusade or Wrath of the Lich King with the literally hundreds of NPCs fighting each other in different areas. Or the raids wth easily 50+ trash mobs between bosses.

                    [–]BoerboelFace 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    During the assault on the assault on the Oblivion Gate near The Blades Temple I had all of the Nights of Nine, Blades, several guilds and mercenaries, there must have been at least fifty of us massed to fight the Dremora off. Skyrim does indeed feel empty.

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                      [–]irrelevant8 47ポイント48ポイント  (36子コメント)

                      Yes, I prefer having loads of people because it feels more immersive but I wish they would have more interactions, like enabling the random people to become followers or something to give them more life. You could even let them die but let their place in town become home to newly generated people. That way we don't get stuck with settlers and they can be useful if we choose.

                      [–]evilplantosaveworld 100ポイント101ポイント  (33子コメント)

                      What i've always wanted in an open world RPG is to have a simple strategy simulator running in the background, something maybe like an old version of civ, let the AI trade with eachother and you could watch cities become richer or poorer, population might get bigger if a city is successful, maybe even have them go to war with eachother. Ideally there would be larger, noticeable changes,like maybe one city starts to clear land for a farm or build more buildings but that wouldn't be required, just subtle changes to how many NPCs, how their dressed, prices in shops, things like that and then throw in a few dialogue things that would let the player know what had happened, maybe a merchant says "Since we opened that trade route to insert city name here we've had a great supply of insert some good that may or may not be useful to the player it's really been a boon to both cities!"

                      [–]Slayer706 42ポイント43ポイント  (8子コメント)

                      Sounds similar to the Mount and Blade series.

                      [–]TheDrunkenHetzer 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      I swear, I hear about Mount and Blade being super deep, I get excited, play mount and blade again and get stuck walking around with the Kings bros for 5 hours doing jack shit, and quit the game.

                      I know there's a shit ton of awesome stuff you can do but I can't tolerate the grind it takes to do it.

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                        [–]Aaawkward 33ポイント34ポイント  (2子コメント)

                        Bloody hell.

                        I never realised how stale most RPG-worlds are. I mean I knew they were, I just never realised just how stale they are.

                        What you're describing sounds like a damn dream come true.

                        [–]evilplantosaveworld 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        It's bothered me for a long time, from the first time I played a zelda game, OoT, how the world changes so much (Kakriko being built, Zora's Domain freezing over, the Korkiri village being overrun, the bridge to the desert being built, etc etc etc) when you become an adult, but nothing you do changes it back. I felt that after I did the water temple the Zoras should have been saved, after defeating Ganon the redead should have been driven out, I saved the goddamn world but all the characters that were supposed to be my friends still lived in darkness. As silly as this sounds it left this sort of sadness in me, like I just read a great book, but the last chapter is missing. Frodo through the ring into the mountain, the end, Ender destroyed the bugs homeworld, the commanders cheer, the end.

                        MM was awesome, I could change things, I could save the Gorons from winter for example, even if there was only 3 days of in game time the world felt more dynamic. I want that somehow scaled across a whole game.

                        There's also those annoying fake time frames games have, "meet me at the inn tomorrow morning," three months of game time later you finally remember that and head to the inn and the quest giver is still there waiting, completely forgetting that you left him waiting for 90 days.

                        [–]mnky9800n 70ポイント71ポイント  (14子コメント)

                        You have basically described the game Mount & Blade.

                        There are NPC kings and dukes and minions running around conquering and doing whatever while towns are being managed by AI demands and various trade products go up and down in value. You can raise armies, manage towns, go to war, align yourself with a faction, etc.

                        [–]Manolo_Ribera 32ポイント33ポイント  (12子コメント)

                        But in Mount&Blade the whole point is to participate by commanding your own army and move them over a top down map. Only when it comes to a battle do you control your character directly, or when you enter a town. And while you enter a town the whole world stops around you.

                        I think what they meant was more like... imagine you were playing a game like Gothic or The Witcher (so no top-down view) and while you run around in that world a Mount and Blade type war/economy/diplomacy would be running in the background. You might be buying potions from a trader while suddenly an army comes to attack the town.

                        [–]Gravesh 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

                        Give Dwarf Fortress another year and this will be Adventurer Mode.

                        [–]RoRo24 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Yea but DF has no graphics and is again a top down map

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                          [–]Blackultra 9ポイント10ポイント  (5子コメント)

                          You might be buying potions from a trader while suddenly an army comes to attack the town.

                          The issue with that is obviously at what point does that stop being immersive, and start being annoying? I think with proper testing and development hopefully you can really find a sweet spot between how frequent "random" events happen, while still making them matter. The pitfall to making stuff like this is making them too predictable. A sophisticated system would needs soooo many variables, but video games and processing power is getting to a level that it should be doable, just with the right direction.

                          You have to remember that a lot of games that come out "recently" (whatever year it happens to be) are games that were envisioned years prior. When WoW got big, lots of MMORPG's went into development because there was a market for it, and then it got oversaturated, and I think just recently MMORPGS are passed their whole "everyone make one for a quick buck" stage. Most MMORPGs that come out are usually very well-made from an objective standpoint. Whether they are "fun", or "new enough" to warrent the time needed to spend inside them however is up for debate. New games of established genres need to innovate enough within the genre to stand out and be really successful, which is the difficult part.

                          I really think with the success of games like Skyrim and Witcher 3 that we will see an oversaturation of these types of open worlds, and a few really well made ones will come out.

                          [–]Manolo_Ribera 17ポイント18ポイント  (2子コメント)

                          See, that's why we are talking about simulating an RTS in the background. It wouldn't be "random events" because if you paid attention to the war situation you knew which towns would be at the front, which meadows might likely become battle fields in the near future or which forests could have hidden troops waiting in ambush. So if you go to a place close to the border of territory controlled by two different factions you know the risk.

                          I don't think it would take that much processing power. It would just be like having 2 or 3 AI players in Command&Conquer. You wouldn't even need to process every single unit and every single battle. The battle the players don't personally witness could be decided like auto-fight in Total War.

                          [–]Blackultra 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

                          Oh I totally agree. IT's along the same lines as asymmetrical gameplay, which for fun I've been toying with. Players controlling individual characters, different players controlling city economies. Basically both sets playing different games, in the same game.

                          [–]Manolo_Ribera 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          Natural Selection 2 is hands down my favourite game in that category!

                          [–]Paper-Tiger-Munk 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                          I think a very important point in random events is making them optional. E.G. Suddenly an army comes to attack the town! "Well I don't feel like dealing with this shit, so I'm gonna leave."

                          And it would be fairly simple to have a mechanic that prevents large scale random events while you're in the middle of a quest dialogue.

                          [–]Blackultra 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          The mechanics of the game would have to reinforce those random events though. If an enemy nation storms the capitol while you are inside, you could choose to fight them, flee the city, fight for them, or whatever else. But the mechanics underneath those gameplay elements need to be solid and working on their own.

                          I think of Shadow of Mordor in a scenario like this. Plenty of mechanics that would allow the player to flee the capitol, but he could also fight the enemy if he wished.

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                            [–]evilplantosaveworld 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            i like mount & blade a lot actually, although i view it as being closer to a strategy game with very strong RPG elements, which I love don't get me wrong, but I'd like the rpg bit to be fleshed out a bit more, with an open world like an elderscrolls game. I get bored with Mount & Blade a bit easier than I'd like, mind you I've gone back to it a dozen times and enjoyed it again each time.

                            [–]TheDon835 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Awesome idea!

                            [–]santaclaus73 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            I believe the first game to pull this off right will be incredibly successful. This implemented in GTA, Skyrim, or Witcher would have been awesome. I remember thinking about this while playing Assassins Creed: Black Flag. It would have been incredible to have a pirate faction, an economy, trade routes, fleets, etc in addition to original game play.

                            [–]shaneomacattacks 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Sounds a lot like Organic Factions. I'd check it out if you play Skyrim on PC.

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                              [–]rickatnight11 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

                              Ooo, sort of like Animal Crossing.

                              [–]thekeanu 18ポイント19ポイント  (13子コメント)

                              Skyrim and all those similar games including the Fallout series definitely felt way too sparsely populated.

                              Was lame.

                              [–]dnew 10ポイント11ポイント  (10子コメント)

                              To be fair, I don't think it would be "post apocalyptic" if they had the large teaming cities we have today. :-) Not much of an apocalypse.

                              [–]thekeanu 21ポイント22ポイント  (8子コメント)

                              Even under "post apocalyptic" the number of people present in Fallout should be bumped up by a hell of a lot in order to sustain viability.

                              At no point was I talking about having Manhattan style density - but you're way off if you think life would exist in the densities presented by the games.

                              [–]Corsair4 13ポイント14ポイント  (7子コメント)

                              I mean, Bethesda Fallouts are inconsistent with the original games. if shady sands can have such a large population living in civilization, I feel like Diamond City can have a goddamn carpenter and be a bit cleaner.

                              [–]TeardropsFromHell 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

                              When they soft rebooted with fallout 3 they fucked up because for like 90% of the production process the game was supposed to take place like 10 years after the bombs dropped. Then like a month[exaggeration] before release they switched it to 200 years after so it would be set after the events of Fallout 2 and they could include The Enclave remnant, Jet, Harold, super mutants etc... So the world was built to be more apocalyptic then it logically should have been.

                              Then they doubled down on this with new vegas for some reason and now we have New Vegas have a population of 12 when New Reno had a population in the thousands with several thriving industries and all 60 years before New Vegas anyway.

                              [–]TazBaz 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

                              Huh? The STARTER town in new Vegas had 10 people. New Vegas itself had, idk, a couple hundred scattered around the core and edges? Most were generics, but they were physically present. Hell the Followers stronghold alone had ~12 in it, and that was a sub zone of a subzone of New Vegas proper.

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                                  [–]McGuineaRI 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  There are mods that tackle his and they do it pretty well imo. In conjunction with the bigger and better mod series for larger main cities with that feel denser and more alive, the series of villages added that are faithful to older maps of skyrim rom before the game that add towns like Oakwood and stuff also fill out the world.

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                                    [–]-Lautrec- 36ポイント37ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                    That's a good argument. Every major city in Skyrim doesn't feel like a city but more like a small town. The world as a whole is nice but the cities are more underwhelming than No man's sky after the first 10 hours.

                                    [–]FloppyG 16ポイント17ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                    Bingo, they could have just copy pasted 100 buildings and make them a little different, so it appears there are more streets, and just put hundreds od NPCs that don't talk to you at all, just look at AC Unity.

                                    [–]shdarren 25ポイント26ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    Honestly that's what I loved about the AC series. The models were diverse enough and the populations dense enough to make it feel like I'm actually pelting down a Roman street with a gang of Borgians on horseback chasing me for killing their CO. Skyrim just felt so damn empty.

                                    [–]patatahooligan 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                    Well, ideally you wouldn't try to pull it off without enough writers and voice actors to make those NPCs at least somewhat believable, but of course making games is never an ideal process. Since we're talking about a trade-off both sides can make compelling arguments, but I'm a big supporter of artists working with what they have rather than against it. For example, I prefer smaller maps with more believable NPCs rather than big lifeless landscapes, and I'm okay with less game time if it's more varied. In this sense, I feel Skyrim's world is well-crafted compared to its predecessors. I can understand other people having different priorities, though.

                                    [–]blackestrabbit 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    I've always wondered why they dont hire voice actors that are capable of more than just their own voice. get someone like Reggie Watts in there and you have a hundred different characters voices and youre only paying the one guy.

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                                      [–]Overlordz88 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Need to take a page out of GTA games book for random generated NPCs

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                                        [–]Dqueezy 18ポイント19ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        Are you forgetting that one voice actor voiced about half the population in Skyrim? Literally nearly ever (if not every) dark elf.

                                        [–]FallenWyvern 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        There aren't that many Dark Elves in Skyrim to begin with. But the point is valid.

                                        [–]PuddingTalks 15ポイント16ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        "unique content" I like the game but most of it is not so unique

                                        [–]BerserkerGatsu 31ポイント32ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        That being said, Skyrim still is very much lacking in the unique interactions department imo. The number of fetch quests involving dungeons whose puzzles you've solved before and enemies you've killed hundreds of thousands of times already is pretty ridiculous.

                                        [–]MechaPanther 13ポイント14ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                        To be fair Skyrim still only has a few voice actors and a limited wardrobe for them, it's just a slightly larger variation then Morrowind. The voices thing always happens in Bethesda games because they insist on getting a few big names (Patrick Stewart who voices an intro and dies within 5 minutes and Liam Neeson who pretty much does the same) and then having to reuse a handful of others to voice everyone else instead of holding auditions with their fanbase or lesser known voice actors to get a hundred or so unique voices but without a big name to advertise the game.

                                        [–]Dqueezy 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        Every dark elf and half of the other people in the game are all the same person. One of the most disappointing things to me because I can't escape it. Everywhere I go, it's the same damn voice!

                                        [–]stillnotking 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        It's really jarring when three or four different people in the same guild have the same voice actor. You'd think they could have done a little better than that, particularly since most of them only have a few lines.

                                        [–]MaceWindows 9ポイント10ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                        Not every single npc needs to be interactable. Could have some random inconsequential guys wandering around that just say "hey".

                                        [–]Residentmusician 13ポイント14ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                        This! Fuck it, if you walk down the street in a real world town, you see people, but you don't interact with them. In fact, if you try to talk to most of them, the will brush you off. How about villagers that You see, but then if you approach them they just walk away, cause I wouldn't talk to my skyrim character, they are fucking scary.

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                                          [–]CuddlesMcHuggy 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Not all of those NPCs have to be unique. When I run through Novigrad in Witcher 3, I'm not talking to all/any of them.

                                          [–]BadgerSmith 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                          I've been out of gaming for a couple decades. Which of the two games has better graphics?

                                          [–]Metaright 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Skyrim.

                                          [–]shdarren 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Morrowind's (the game on the right) full title is The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind and Skyrim's (the game on the left) full title is The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim.

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                                            [–]doctordonydoctor 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                            As much as I agree with this, I do feel that Bethesda tends to shy away from stock npcs and building that could other wise flesh out their towns.

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                                              [–]someguyinahat 372ポイント373ポイント  (52子コメント)

                                              60 buildings, and how many different interiors?

                                              [–]Juggerbyte 211ポイント212ポイント  (29子コメント)

                                              And how many of those NPCs did we give a shit about?

                                              [–]MaceWindows 24ポイント25ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                              Just like real life. Billions of people, and I only talk to like 10, and only care about 3 or so.

                                              [–]HillbillyMan 39ポイント40ポイント  (17子コメント)

                                              Xenoblade Chronicles for the Wii had a good answer to that, important NPCs had names, everyone else was just "colonist" or "citizen" or whatever, depending on the location. Tons of NPCs walking everywhere to make the game world feel alive, but unimportant characters could be picked out easily from the important ones.

                                              [–]SahAnxsty 92ポイント93ポイント  (14子コメント)

                                              Games have been doing this for yonks mate, pretty sure it started 90's or early.

                                              [–]misterlanks 43ポイント44ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                              Including Bethesda games lol

                                              [–]SOnakEpt 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                              Yeah, most guards are named "guard" in Skyrim.

                                              [–]someguyinahat 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                              Also true in Morrowind. I'm pretty sure that in Morrowind, you can kill every named NPC in the game, so just about every place in the region will be an uninhabited wasteland, but Vivec guards will continue to spawn.

                                              [–]potplanty 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                              With this character's death, the thread of prophecy is severed. Restore a saved game to restore the weave of fate, or persist in the doomed world you have created.

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                                                  [–]HillbillyMan 5ポイント6ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                  I know, but I was giving a modern example since people are complaining that modern Bethesda doesn't do that anymore.

                                                  [–]Havoksixteen 9ポイント10ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                  But it does? Go into Diamond City and anyone with unique dialogue is named. Anyone without is named "Citizen" or such.

                                                  Same in the Prydwyn, Institute, Railroad, and any other large settlement to be fair.

                                                  Skyrim too. Fallout 3 too. Fallout NV (Obsidian developed Bethesda published) too.

                                                  [–]HillbillyMan 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                  But they still have nowhere near as many npcs and the world still feel empty because of that. Not every character has to have a story or quest purpose, but having high populations at least makes the world feel more realistic. Look at assassins creed for example. Also, fallout is an exception to this because the lack of people is part of the atmosphere.

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                                                      [–]PiLamdOd 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                      That's why I love the Populated Cities mod. It does exactly that.

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                                                          [–]rationalcomment 33ポイント34ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                          Also the graphical point is moot as Morrowind was a technical marvel and won numerous awards for graphics, while Skyrim was considered already graphically aged when it was released.

                                                          [–]DayDreamerJon 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                          I think its because at the time the xbox was actually pretty strong. So while the pc version was better it didn't seem to hinder the PC version.

                                                          [–]ObsidianEagle22 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                          Hmm.. Nah. Thief 3 and Deus Ex 2 were heavily limited in the map size department by the fact it was on consoles.

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                                                              [–]VirtualMachine0 196ポイント197ポイント  (48子コメント)

                                                              Morrowind won numerous awards for best graphics. Daggerfall was bigger than either of them.

                                                              Skyrim city size is small for the same reason Game of Thrones cities are too small. Creating all the content for all the bits not essential to the plot is unnecessary.

                                                              [–]AAA1374 49ポイント50ポイント  (13子コメント)

                                                              Here's a thing to think about though:

                                                              Skyrim could've definitely benefitted from a slight increase in size of cites. Hell, even Whiterun was bigger looking and feeling that Solitude. That city was just done poorly, almost like an afterthought.

                                                              And Daggerfall is the biggest game of all time, but most of that was just nothing. You could walk straight for a week and not reach the end of the map, but you also might not see anything on that journey. It was just big for the sake of scale. Which is still an awesome accomplishment. I want to say it was around 89,000 square miles. Comparable in size to the entirety of Great Britain.

                                                              [–]m3bs 23ポイント24ポイント  (12子コメント)

                                                              And Daggerfall is the biggest game of all time

                                                              Biggest non-procedurally generated game of all time

                                                              [–]Delita232 15ポイント16ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                                              No daggerfalls map has alot of porcedural generation.

                                                              [–]m3bs 6ポイント7ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                              If it counts as procedurally generated, it's not the biggest, not by a long shot.

                                                              [–]Delita232 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                              its partially procedural. not completely.

                                                              [–]Quakeout 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                              That doesn't really matter. No Man's Sky, for example, has procedurally generated planets and shit, but it also has pre-made (or pre-made with built-in variance) in its outposts and stations and stuff, the same way Daggerfall has premade towns or whatever. Its [size] is only as big as it is because they built a form and had it auto-fill blocks of the map over and over.

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                                                                  [–]ApocalypseTroop 23ポイント24ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                  It's always bothered me how small Winterfell looks.

                                                                  [–]Mini-Marine 87ポイント88ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                  winterfell isn't a city, it's simply a large castle.

                                                                  There's towns all around, the castle is just where people would retreat to during an attack.

                                                                  [–]Trizzlfizzl 39ポイント40ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                  Exactly this.

                                                                  King's Landing is a proper city for example, but Winterfell is just a castle.

                                                                  There is a town called "Wintertown" right beside it though.

                                                                  [–]minibum 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                  Think it is mostly empty unless it is winter if I remember the book. Not many live in and around the castle. Few farmers, a smithy, probably a basic tailor, and the direct garrison.

                                                                  [–]rita_pizza 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                  There's plenty of burnable children around.

                                                                  [–]macemillion 9ポイント10ポイント  (21子コメント)

                                                                  Can you elaborate on GoT cities being too small? I've been subscribed to the asoiaf sub for years and don't think I've ever heard that.

                                                                  Edit: based on other people's responses I think you just meant that the sets they built for the show don't accurately represent how large the cities are supposed to be (hundreds of thousands of people) as opposed to the notion that cities of hundreds of thousands of people are too small for the world. I still don't agree with that though, as the only two cities we've seen in the show are King's Landing and Oldtown and I'm not really sure how you're supposed to get a sense of scale for a city that size just with sets, but the cgi seemed to accurately represent their sizes.

                                                                  [–]MiLlamoEsMatt 9ポイント10ポイント  (17子コメント)

                                                                  The budget was a lot smaller in the first season. Winterfell was a fort, like 6 houses and a wall. The iron throne is tiny (lampshaded by Little Finger) compared to the books. What we've seen of Castle Black is only big enough for like 250 people, which falls a bit short of what the Night's Watch would have been in its hay day.

                                                                  And later seasons they're not going all out on one time use sets (reasonably). I just watched Hard Home last night and don't remember seeing more than 3 huts, mostly a non-issue due to camera work aiming away from where other huts would be.

                                                                  [–]macemillion 12ポイント13ポイント  (11子コメント)

                                                                  I'd give you castle black, but it was also supposed to have been falling apart for centuries without the proper builders to keep everything up so that might have something to do with it.

                                                                  As for winterfell, here it is in season 1: http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/gameofthrones/images/5/50/Winterfell_Exterior.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110705175851

                                                                  Looks like quite a bit more than just a fort to me. Pretty much looks like I imagined from the books.

                                                                  Also, none of the things you mentioned are cities. Castle black and Winterfell are castles, and the iron throne is a throne.

                                                                  Edit: and hey you're not even the person who I asked. Let them answer, damnit!

                                                                  [–]TheJauntyCarrot 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                  Perhaps the logic behind castle black being so small is that it would have been confusing to viewers to see a massive fortress in some shots and then be told that the nights watch is undermanned and underfunded. Not that I am any authority though.

                                                                  [–]dnew 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                  Plus there's a bunch of unattended castles out there. If nights watch was 10x as big, they wouldn't all be at castle black to start with.

                                                                  [–]Llim 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                  Exactly, everyone's forgetting the 20 something small castles along the wall, as well as Eastwatch, and the other large castle on the west coast whose name I can't remember.

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                                                                      [–]polakbob 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                      I'll point out that there players like me that get bogged down when there's too much unnecessary content. I always end up fizzling out a fraction of the way into the game because I'm not sure I'm skipping something important if I don't explore something. When you make a big world with nothing going on you end up losing me.

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                                                                        [–]karma_virus 12ポイント13ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                                        D&D Tabletop has no graphics and it is LIMITLESS.

                                                                        [–]Nurah 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                        Not really any nuance to this post.

                                                                        Better graphics does not always mean smaller game

                                                                        [–]Belboz99 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                        Heh, anyone remember the tombs and caves of Morrowind?

                                                                        [–]redditsucksundersack 58ポイント59ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                        There's something to be said for editing the game down to the FUN parts.

                                                                        I'm burnt out on open word games where all you do is take over towers and kill 30 enemies, over and over and over.

                                                                        I don't like skyrim or morrowind but if I chose one over the other it wouldn't be because "this one has 10x more buildings and npcs to talk to"

                                                                        The new Zelda game has an uphill battle to seem different and better than skyrim as well as having some sense of focus on actual missions.

                                                                        [–]k1ll3rM 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                        You should play the witcher. Most side quests are fairly unique and a lot of monsters have different ways to fight them

                                                                        [–]AverageWhite_Male 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                        Graphics aren't everything. The story better grab me by the balls and take me on an adventure

                                                                        [–]Rajoovi1 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                        I prefer a story that seduces me gently around the testacle area.

                                                                        [–]Sootraggins 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                        That's because there's a serial killer in the capital killing all the citizen NPC's.

                                                                        [–]Orc_ 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                        What graphics? Morrowind at release had some of the best graphics around, they didn't choose bad graphics for more content or whatever.

                                                                        [–]HapticSloughton 59ポイント60ポイント  (17子コメント)

                                                                        Good graphics? Not entirely. It's all about console memory limitations.

                                                                        Hold on to your downvotes, console gamers, I didn't say consoles were bad. Consoles have limited memory resources and they stay that way (unless someone has invented an easy way to expand it?), so the devs only have X amount of RAM and other hardware capabilities to work with. Consoles can't handle too many Bethsoft NPCs in one place, which is why the "civil war" in Skyrim consisted of battles that had fewer people than a basketball game.

                                                                        It's why parts of Bethsoft games are so segregated. New Vegas' strip was supposed to be one whole area, but memory limits broke it into 3. Freeside was supposed to be another big area, but again, it had to be partitioned into 4. There were supposed to be loads more NPCs to fill out the place, but that wouldn't work for consoles or the game's radiant A.I.

                                                                        There are loads of mods that "restore" NPCs to current-day Bethsoft games, and they do make a difference. However, the limitations of consoles do have an up side: They stopped the never-ending cycle of requiring a new graphics card every 6 months to a year if you wanted to play the latest and greatest games. By providing a large consumer demographic with a basic standard, gamers on all platforms don't have to buy brand new gear so often to enjoy current titles. Devs also get a longer life cycle to figure out the best ways to use the hardware they're given (i.e. Oblivion and Skyrim were both coded for the XBox 360, and look at the difference). So there's an up side.

                                                                        [–]Auctoritate 10ポイント11ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                                                        Is this because of consoles' hardware limitations, though, or could it be more due to software? Bethesda isn't exactly known for the most stable engines.

                                                                        [–]Xernanthium 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                        Is this because of consoles' hardware limitations, though, or could it be more due to software?

                                                                        I think that console limitations gives them a good excuse not to modify their engines to support loads of NPCs.

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                                                                            [–]RacistAngryJackAss 73ポイント74ポイント  (23子コメント)

                                                                            it's not even much to do with graphics honestly. They could of done a lot more, there wasn't a need to sacrifice so much.

                                                                            [–]Zwets 124ポイント125ポイント  (19子コメント)

                                                                            Its not the graphics, its that the morrowind NPC's don't have voice lines.

                                                                            The Interesting NPC's mod that fills Skyrim with, well you can probably guess from the name, is really good exactly for that reason.

                                                                            [–]AtraUnam 29ポイント30ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                            I would honestly prefer lots of NPCs I can talk to through text than a handful with voice actors.

                                                                            [–]BravelyThrowingAway 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                            A lot of people also read text faster than listening to an NPC speak which means the conversation can be ended mid sentence unless you want to hear what you just read. I mean sure it's a richer experience if you listen to everyone instead of speed reading and ending the conversation but it just feels kind of pointless.

                                                                            Now on the other hand if they removed text entirely that would be a hilarious, unique, and frustrating experience.

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                                                                              [–]Pokabou 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                              It's awesome. It gives each character a unique little story to tell.

                                                                              [–]Volcanicrage 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                              Its also that Morrowind NPCs don't have behavior. All non-generic NPCs in Oblivion and Skyrim have complex behavior, faction alignments, and a bunch of other crap that Morrowind NPCs didn't have because it was a functionally static world.

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                                                                                  [–]Belboz99 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                  I'm still trying to figure out where all the dead once lived... Or why the population of bandits is higher than citizens.

                                                                                  To be fair though, Diablo II's population of dead was roughly 1,000,000 more than it's population of living.

                                                                                  [–]n9595 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                  Isn't Mournhold the capital of Morrowind, not Vivec?

                                                                                  [–]3dogs1bone 60ポイント61ポイント  (11子コメント)

                                                                                  Skyrim is a cold country. It makes sense, that city population would be lower due to lower agriculture output.

                                                                                  [–]marijn198 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                  Its like 10 houses and a freaking castle. Isnt that a bit out of proportion to eachother?

                                                                                  [–]hurdlebeast 20ポイント21ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                  I don't know why no one else has posted this/this isn't higher up: it makes logical and lore sense why Skyrim's population is outright lower, because the location is away from the rest of civilization. Heck, the opening scene sets up the "we are the northern rebels!" tone pretty well.

                                                                                  [–]Brive_ 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                  Vvardenfell is a shitty backwater, Skyrim is the second capital of the Empire

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                                                                                    [–]BactrianusCase 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                    Npc's

                                                                                    twitch

                                                                                    [–]Nan0machines 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                    Oblivion had amazing graphics for the time, bigger cities and more people than Skyrim, more items, better quests and guilds, and all those people had a complex needs system that drove their actions dynamically (even if it was toned down from all the demos it was still impressive and new). It wasn't graphics that gimped Skyrim. It was Bethesda for some strange reason deliberately deciding to scale everything back

                                                                                    [–]local-area-man 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                    ooh, ooh, do Daggerfall next

                                                                                    [–]wowidk 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                    And the silt striders/boats/horse carriages allowed for lore-friendly Fast Travel.

                                                                                    I really would like to see some next-gen Silt Striders tho, JS

                                                                                    [–]TheZephyrim 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                    It's not really the sacrifice of good graphics, it's the sacrifice of an increasingly lazy development team, which expect the graphical department to make up for their shortcomings.

                                                                                    [–]5kyl3r 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                    I think this is more to blame on the ancient pile of crap consoles that are holding back gaming graphics progression.

                                                                                    [–]whateversticks101 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                    Tbf I hate big towns in rpgs. Feel like I have to explore everything before moving on. End up spending hours in a town without fighting a single enemy

                                                                                    [–]StrangeCharmVote 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                    But that wasn't a sacrifice of good graphics...

                                                                                    That was a sacrifice of shoddy development work and cutting corners to get the product out the door.

                                                                                    That is not to say skyrim wasn't great.

                                                                                    All I'm saying is that they could have easily made areas that huge and sprawling, but didn't. And it wasn't 'consider the frame-rates' that stopped them. It was 'making that much content is hard'.

                                                                                    [–]Geers- 15ポイント16ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                                                    If Skyrim had launched with Morrowind's graphics you would have ripped them to shreds and don't pretend for a second, that you wouldn't.

                                                                                    [–]DayDreamerJon 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                    They were ripped to shreds for sticking with an old ass engine as it is dude.

                                                                                    [–]Mohaan 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                    The point is all about finding the happy number that works. (not disagreeing with you mind you)

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                                                                                      [–]skelebone 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                      Do all of those extra NPCs matter if I don't go to the Cloud District?

                                                                                      [–]bokscar 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                      Sacrifice wasnt for graphics, was for voice acting. Dialogue and audio was the major improvement. Game would have been absolutely massive (data wise).

                                                                                      [–]zkkaiser 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                      More =/= Better

                                                                                      [–]IAMhonka 18ポイント19ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                                                                      And somehow The Witcher 3 has both good graphics and realistic looking settlements with tons of NPCs and streets.

                                                                                      [–]centarus 29ポイント30ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                      The Witcher 3 came out 4 years after Skyrim on the next generation of consoles. People also forget that Morrowind was a resource hog when it came out. It probably wouldn't have been tolerated by today's PC gamer standards.

                                                                                      [–]KeyThrower 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                      The point isn't that the Witcher 3 has better graphics than Skyrim the point is that it was, at the time of release, good looking with realistic looking settlements.

                                                                                      Having realistic looking cities wasn't something impossible at the time Skyrim was released. Assassins creed 2 came out before Skyrim for example.

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                                                                                        [–]SpongebobNutella 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                        Pam param, pam param param.

                                                                                        [–]jonab12 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                        But you couldn't interact or kill 99% of the NPC's. And each guard is a God with a pike in Witcher 3's main city.

                                                                                        Fable did things better than both Witcher and Skyrim. Hundreds of NPCs and the interaction can go as far as you can marry one and buy any property in the city and customize it

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                                                                                          [–]tacosRcool 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          The sacrifices of putting a PC game on a console and making everyone equal.

                                                                                          [–]TylerDurden1030 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          This implies Morrowinds graphics were not "good" at time of release.. They were actually fantastic graphics.

                                                                                          Skyrim was just the beginning of Bethesda's shameless/lazy ass streak. "The dark ages".

                                                                                          [–]Sintobus 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          It is not even a matter of graphics directly. It is the way they wanted to make console work identical to PC and limited a lot of game factors to console specs of the time. Morrowind console was heavy load times and many of them even on PC but less so

                                                                                          [–]belil569 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          Has nothing to do with graphics. Far larger games that look better with more content. The issue is content, its a pain to make every npc unique and every area as well. Its a creative cop out but it works.

                                                                                          [–]Kreepr 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          If I've said it once, I've said a few times, I'd sacrifice graphics for more sandbox/stuff.

                                                                                          Now I'm not crazy or anything but I'm not going back to nes graphics. What are we? Animals?

                                                                                          [–]SadisticUnicorn 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          It's not really anything to do with graphics. Look at Novigrad

                                                                                          [–]Ledmonkey96 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          How does ESO stack up to this?

                                                                                          [–]thikthird 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          i'd hardly call it a sacrifice. more like trimming the fat. give me less and make it better.

                                                                                          [–]Holy_Stromboli 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          Just because Vivec is bigger and has so many more "unique" NPCs and "unique" buildings, it doesn't make it better than Solitude. The buildings are pretty spaced out and large, and the interiors are cramped as hell. To avoid walking a mile to the building you want to get to, you gotta hire a god damn boat to take you. I don't remember if you have to pay the guy or not, but if you do, that's bullshit. People bitch about Skyrim being more simplified than previous TES games, but in some cases, simpler can be better. Plus, Vivec feels more like a dungeon than a city to me. At least Solitude actually has a more city-like feel.

                                                                                          All Vivec is is a bunch of big-ass ziggurats on water. Even if Morrowind had prettier/more advanced graphics than Skyrim, Vivec would still be ugly, in my opinion. By the way, we're watching you...scum.

                                                                                          [–]Whitesalt 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          It's not just about quantity it's about quality. The city layout is way too simplistic and I'm thinking they did that because otherwise clueless players would get lost, which is ridiculous. As for NPC's 60~100 is fine. Problem with Morrowind is that most NPCs are fillers, you need to search to the notable ones. In skyrim while fillers still exist they do have some personality or illusion of goals and the split is much more even, except of course the guards that are simple filler.

                                                                                          [–]klinsly 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          Clearly someone hasn't been to Novigrad .

                                                                                          [–]BOMAN7777 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          And crappy voice acting.

                                                                                          [–]Roboticsammy 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          Tbh all I see is whining. Morrowind has no pointer, so you spend hours wandering around, copy pasted buildings, and npc's that repeat the same dialogue, so I wouldn't exactly call them "Unique."

                                                                                          [–]Logicalist 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          "Look at all this unnecessary shit we made. "

                                                                                          [–]DongLord5000 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          If by "Unique" you mean copy-paste NPCs that say and do the same shit. Nostalgia circlejerks are the worst.

                                                                                          [–]falkuda 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          I tried playing Morrowind but I just couldn't get into it. Killing people took forever since your attacks didn't always hit. One thing I liked was how you had to find everything for the quest. That dwarven box quest item thing? It wasn't the main attraction of the last area of a dungeon, it was laying around on some shelf in a random room

                                                                                          [–]Fredfredbug4 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          It has nothing to do with graphics. Just the result of trimming a niche game down to cater to the general audience instead of enthusiasts.

                                                                                          I'd wager most of the people who loved Skyrim wouldn't enjoy Morrowind as much, myself included.

                                                                                          [–]DaHolk 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          Looking at other visually amazing games, it isn't because "good grafics".

                                                                                          The biggest thing that shrunk populations (and thus other than in desolate cities like in Dark Souls their size with it) is voice acting.

                                                                                          It is easier to push out pages and pages of written dialogue. It is cost prohibitive to VOICE all of them. For one typing is A LOT faster than talking, for another nobody is going to complain about "some" lazy writing here and there, but shoddy voice-acting is GLARING.

                                                                                          The second we have proper text to speech with proper different voices, devs won't be forced between a rock and a hard place of "these are entirely to few people" and "all of the guards repeat 5 sentences, maybe it's less obvious if we just use fewer"

                                                                                          (It's also a dirty little secret of Hearthstone btw. Reusing clips from a different game and even random motives of the music is not just cool because of authenticity. It also means there is little to no recording to be done.)

                                                                                          [–]XDeusMachina 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          The Witcher 3 did not sacrifice either.

                                                                                          [–]AgroTGB 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          This kinda killed Skyrim for me. If the game wants me to fully immerse myself in the world then it needs to actually look like a world. Skyrims cities are more like really small villages. I could never take the world serious. The civil war finale was a 20v20 battle.

                                                                                          Game was still fun though.

                                                                                          [–]PeebugMachine 21ポイント22ポイント  (12子コメント)

                                                                                          Quality over quantity, I'd take Skyrim over the redundancy of Morrowind every time

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