上位 200 件のコメント全て表示する 367

[–]memetrash15 377ポイント378ポイント  (122子コメント)

I feel this way. There has been evidence for it all along, but I dismissed it as rumors or young, immature behavior that she's moved on and grown from. I sat back and was quiet while she dissed all her exes, insulted all the girls who dated guys she was into, slut-shamed the hell out of Camilla Belle, got all the famous girls on her side against Katy Perry with Bad Blood, while at the same time she made a huge deal out of every insult or dig against her. She wrote the song "Mean" over a critic who didn't like her work, and she said "there's a special place in hell for women who don't support other women," when Amy Poehler and Tina Fey made a jab at her, and yet she's been mean to lots of other women. Talk about being melodramatic. I just tried to write it off as her pre-"feminist" era," not conniving to gain sympathy and support. But this video footage is right here, plain as day, Taylor Swift calling Kanye a friend and then tearing him apart days later in the media and at the Grammys. And now that I can't ignore this cruel two-faced thing she did, I have to come to terms with all the other ones too. I feel like I'm going through the 5 stages of grief, trying to accept that this artist I've loved for years was not the wonderful, sweet, friendly person I built her up to be in my head.

[–]dolphone 162ポイント163ポイント  (3子コメント)

If it makes you feel better, you didn't build her up by yourself. She worked hard at forging that image.

[–]Polar_Chap 50ポイント51ポイント  (0子コメント)

Her talent at that probably surpasses her talent as a singer. She is an immensely talented image manager, superior song writer, and excellent singer, but the talent ranking does go in that order.

[–]zaviex 29ポイント30ポイント  (1子コメント)

This episode really just shows she might've worked too hard. If she had just not commented and had her PR not comment, Kanye would've looked the villain and she'd look clean. Instead she manipulated the situation

[–]Protanope 40ポイント41ポイント  (0子コメント)

Katy Perry wasn't wrong when she called her "Regina George in sheep's clothing".

[–]terp02andrew 26ポイント27ポイント  (0子コメント)

And now that I can't ignore this cruel two-faced thing she did, I have to come to terms with all the other ones too

Very well-written. I think that's what many older fans are trying to deal with here. A two-faced Taylor is not the one we thought we were fans of.

It makes you really question her integrity when she can so easily flip the switch. Bottom line - it makes you question whether you can trust anything she says at all.

[–]acrossthestarss 39ポイント40ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly this. We just acknowledged all the other stuff as "slip ups", but the Katy thing really did make me think "ah, shit, Taylor is pretty calculating". Then the Kanye thing just confirmed it. It really sucks she craves so much drama and attention now, which ultimately screwed her perfectly crafted image.

[–]nybiggs 46ポイント47ポイント  (20子コメント)

You summed up my feelings so well. I feel like there's a good chance everything about who she is, what she represents is carefully planned out and designed. I mean that's probably not completely true. But I can't shake the possibility now.

It started with Calvin Harris causing a bit of doubt. I mean how bad do her exes really treat her? If you listen to her music, they are real scumbags. When Kim said Taylor lied, and they had a recording, I didn't believe it. I'll say this for Kim. She waited a while to release it, and timed it perfectly.

I watched an old video of her at 17 or so. She was so country. She had the southern drawl, cowboy boots, all of it. She lost the accent, traded the cowboy boots for high heels. Traded country for pop. Traded Nashville for LA and NY. Was that what it was always going to be?

[–]franch 39ポイント40ポイント  (6子コメント)

traded the cowboy boots for high heels

i guess she got the memo.

[–]foltaggio 28ポイント29ポイント  (0子コメント)

Reminds me of YBWM's "she wears high heels, I wear sneakers." She's wearing the high heels now.

[–]billpika 21ポイント22ポイント  (3子コメント)

My friend told me that no one just changes up their style like that without it being precisely manufactured.

I agreed with that before, but I especially agree with it now.

[–]franch 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

it was just a Miley ref tho

[–]litlron 99ポイント100ポイント  (5子コメント)

The drawl and cowboy boots were just an image she was trying to present. She's grew up with rich parents in Pennsylvania.

[–]beddersox 53ポイント54ポイント  (3子コメント)

THANK. YOU! As a Southern girl myself, it annoyed me to no end that a girl from PA was carrying around a fake Southern accent. Personally I think she always wanted to be pop, but country was easier to squeeze her way into. I love Taylor butttt

[–]prjindigo 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

Watch her scenes in "Valentine's Day", its not fake just kinda hick. I used to talk much like that from Central Illinois.

[–]hotfuzz86 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

I grew up in middle-of-nowhere Pennsylvania back in the day. While they're certainly hicks, nobody spoke with a drawl. Maybe it's that way in Illinois, but her act is 100% fake if it's coming from someone from PA.

[–]prjindigo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

she wasn't in PA the whole time.

[–]sloth2 20ポイント21ポイント  (5子コメント)

You make a lot of good points, but what does changing your interests have to do with this?

2 years ago I was all "I'm never leaving my hometown", but then I visited a different city that I want to move to, for at least a few years. There's nothing wrong with that aspect of her life. She tried pop and liked it. She visited NYC/LA and liked it.

[–]nybiggs 18ポイント19ポイント  (4子コメント)

Because the doubt on whether her interests are really her interests is there now. She was as country as possible less than 10 years ago. Now country is a distant memory. Which is all good and well, if it transitioned naturally like it did for you. But what if that was always the plan?

[–]MichaelLydonBC17 26ポイント27ポイント  (1子コメント)

Her debut album is definitely pop country. No way is it as country as can be

[–]Flabpack221 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah I'm not sure what people are getting at when they say Taylor used to be straight country. She's always had a pop-ish sound. She's just fully embraced it.

[–]sloth2 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

What does it matter to you if it was or not though, you know? You do not know this person. To you and I she is a performer. We do not know her personality and we cannot do any more than guess what her personality is like based on what she does in the public image. What she does in the public image is fantastic things, but she makes a mistake and we can't forgive her?

[–]thestarbrink 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not a mistake if it was planned.

[–]hereforthesongs 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's worth noting that the country thing is mostly true for her singing. She was originally an abercrombie model

[–]broketeen1 8ポイント9ポイント  (42子コメント)

What did she say about Camilla Belle?

[–]memetrash15 72ポイント73ポイント  (41子コメント)

The song Better Than Revenge from Speak Now is about Camilla Belle. Joe Jonas allegedly dumped Taylor for Camilla back in 2008. Highlights from the lyrics include "She's not a saint / And she's not what you think / She's an actress, whoa / She's better known / For the things that she does / On the mattress, whoa."

It's also ironic because the song Mean is released on the same album, calling out a critic for being mean to her.

[–]broketeen1 29ポイント30ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wow. I was gonna give her the benefit of the doubt and say that she was young when she wrote those songs, but Taylor still does that (like with Bad Blood).

[–]lazeny 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bad Blood is a really terrible song. It's so petty. Like it was written by an insecure teenager.

[–]WhySheHateMe 16ポイント17ポイント  (8子コメント)

She's an actress, whoa / She's better known / For the things that she does / On the mattress, whoa."

Damn, those are some harsh lyrics against another woman. And wasn't Taylor like 16 in 2008? Why was she even going that hard over a boy. Maybe she wasn't a "feminist" back then.

[–]GoHeadBeGoneWithIt 67ポイント68ポイント  (4子コメント)

Um feminism doesn't mean not insulting women. It means equal rights for men and women. She was just being mean.

[–]WhySheHateMe 32ポイント33ポイント  (3子コメント)

Except Taylor has said from her own mouth that she feels that women should support other women.

So, I don't think being "mean" to other girls is part of that.

[–]amyd_1989 34ポイント35ポイント  (1子コメント)

She has done anything but been supportive of other women. She always puts up this front of having this girl gang/squad, but she seems, especially recently, to be very exclusionary and downright mean and petty. A lot of the lyrics Taylor has written about other women (and men too) are far worse than what Kanye wrote about her.

[–]red_280 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

Her 'girl squad' are more like her carefully selected army of photogenic cronies than her true friends.

[–]Elmodeen 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Damn, those lyrics are fucking savage

[–]dotisinjail 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Got a link to the Camilla Belle thing?

[–]memetrash15 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's the song Better Than Revenge, and an explanation for how we know it's about Camilla Belle is here. Notable is the "she's better known for the things that she does on the mattress" line.

[–]Tuvok- 59ポイント60ポイント  (14子コメント)

Hahahaha...looks like Taylor is doing damage control and replying to her little kid fans on social media. Hilarious. After 1+ years of not responding to fans, she does this now.

Edit: I posted this twitter account cause they're retweeting fans that post Taylor's social media replies to fans

https://twitter.com/taylornation13

[–]acrossthestarss 32ポイント33ポイント  (2子コメント)

oh god... i'm literally cringing for her. she needs to stop. this is just... no.

[–]franch 14ポイント15ポイント  (2子コメント)

that twitter is her management team, to be fair. taylor's twitter is @taylorswift13.

[–]Tuvok- 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

I know. Just posting that cause they retweeting fans that shows Taylor's replies

[–]shirvani28 16ポイント17ポイント  (13子コメント)

Can someone eli5 this whole thing?

[–]senator_mendoza 62ポイント63ポイント  (7子コメント)

Kanye wrote a song referencing Taylor in some questionable contexts with lyrics like "me and Taylor might still have sex" and "I made that bitch famous". Taylor responded publicly like she was shocked and offended and everyone got mad at Kanye and he's like "whoa hey I called her first and asked her if it was ok!" and Taylor's like "no he didn't! he sucks!". now Kim k posted a video of Kanye calling her and telling her what he wanted to say and being like "I consider you a friend and I respect you so I wanted to run it by your first" and she's like "omg thank you so much for asking! yeah that's totally fine!". so basically she just totally stabbed him in the back when he went out of his way to be nice.

[–]RnRaintnoisepolution 16ポイント17ポイント  (1子コメント)

Personally, I still like her music, but her, I don't know. I mean I don't hate her, I just feel disappointed in her, I hope she apologizes too, that's probably one of the few scenarios where she at all recovers from this.

[–]terp02andrew 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wouldn't be waiting on an apology - that train has come and gone.

She had every opportunity to correct/revise the June PR statement, but made no action to do so.

[–]interstate-lovesong 102ポイント103ポイント  (6子コメント)

I FEEL EXACTLY THE SAME AS YOU. I have always defended Taylor throughout her career when it came to her boyfriends or her music and even when Tom Hiddleston happened. But now, fuck no. I mean, she's always sweet to the fans but she's obviously a very fake person and it makes me so sad.

[–]Rivoter 107ポイント108ポイント  (3子コメント)

I don't understand why you guys are so shocked that she's "fake".

It's not even being fake, every celebrity/figure as big as taylor goes through massive amounts of PR and image control.

None of you know her personally, and you only got burned because you acted like you did.

Edit: learned more about the story, she tried dragging kanye through the fucking mud. Yeah that's pretty devious and not normal celeb manipulation.

[–]atriax 16ポイント17ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's pretty normal celebrity manipulation honestly when you're as involved in twitter and other social dogshit as Taylor is. It wouldn't be this bad if she didn't have a lady gaga esque following of people who would literally eat her shit if they could. This sub is proof of that. Look at how many posts in this sub are "I always defended her no matter what." Come on, you think she never did any wrong to anyone? That's a joke. Nobody is as saintly as she pretends to be, not even fucking jesus.

[–]ultrab0ii 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think she tried even harder to shit on Kanye because she's still salty about 2009 VMAs.

[–]Farrowth[S] 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

I feel the exact same.

[–]foltaggio 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Me too, man.. I'm very disappointed with her in all of this.

[–]foreverexploring 20ポイント21ポイント  (7子コメント)

I feel the same way, except it was a few months ago that I felt it. I began to become interested in her and her music when Red came out, I liked how clean and fresh it was, and I enjoyed the cut-back, simplicity of it. That's not to say I thought it was simplistic, I'm just a fan of less is more.

I was completely on board then when 1989 came out. Absolutely loved it. I was aware of the fact that she had hired the best in the industry to produce it, which isn't a bad thing, but I guess something that made me go 'hmm' - from the POV that she ditched her country roots and went straight to the top dogs, if you get me. But it was balanced out by her songwriting talent and her ability to define the basis of a melody.

But then...then she started bringing all these people out on stage. She formed her "squad". She started (to me at least) to appear too sickly sweet, too utterly composed in interviews etc. Then the months-long lauding of 1989 became intense. I couldn't shake this feeling, you know that gut feeling you get where you know in your heart something isn't quite right? But might not have nailed exactly what was causing this feeling? I got this, about 6 months ago, and I talked to a few T fans about it, but I came up against a wall of solid fandom. Nothing wrong with that really.

I watched more interviews and read more of her lyrics, and started to get bothered at her feelings of injustice of her dating life being under scrutiny. She made a point of her career to be largely (though not wholly) based on her relationships. If I was an artist, and chose to use a certain theme or idea consistently in my work, and then this was scrutinized...well of course it would be! How could I justify being victimized in this situation? I created it!

I also began to dislike how she wrote these songs, and had a relationship ("relationship", in my view, many of these were not long enough to come under the relationship umbrella) attached to each song. I mean...I am with my bf for nearly 3 years, and I adore him. I can't imagine writing something about him and putting it out there if we broke up (negatively, like Dear John etc.). How can someone do this? And so ostentatiously? Not to mention how she attacked Harry Styles at the VMA's a few years ago. That was in 2013. She was 23. Not fully mature, obv, and everyone can mess up, but this was...calculated. You don't decide to say that on the spot. And it was unnecessary, and immature.

So a few months ago I began to question whether I could look up to someone (and I did - I looked up to her as a role model. We're the same age, I wanted to be inspired by her to be the best I can be) who could use people like this, and I mean in such bad way - to make money. Using people to make money...I thought man, this isn't great.

And her girl squad began to get ridiculous, it reminded me of the popular girls in school who had their cliques and were "much cooler" than me. It wasn't a nice look, especially on someone 25 years old, now 26, who should be far past that point at this stage in life! So this was another warning sign for me.

Anyway, I felt that her relationship with CH wasn't too honest. I think they did have a relationship, but my honest opinion is that it was set up at the beginning (I know Ellie introduced them). But she needed to be seen having at least ONE long-term relationship. She had to have someone stick around for a bit. And she fell for him, I don't doubt, and him her. But I never fully believed it.

Then there was the obvious signs - her "beefs" with katy, kanye, calling out joe jonas and harry, writing that harsh song about camilla...when one person is the common denominator, that's a huge red flag. Also, putting that much time, energy, effort and money into a song and video production to take down someone (Katy) is just...mad. Utterly mad. So unnecessary. So spiteful and man, can she hold a grudge! Evidenced all the more by the Kanye scandal.

Anyways, I know how you feel OP. I felt this way months ago, and only now is it actually being confirmed that she's not nice. She hatched a plot, called him a friend, betrayed him and put on the sob story on stage at the Grammy's. If she did this, she must have done countless other nasty things. She is clearly racking up quite the list of enemies. And her friends? I dunno...really? How many are actual friends, and not sort of trapped in her circle?

I don't hate her. But I do think she's played the cute, sweet girl image too long. She's underestimated her peers. She's NOT the greatest living thing, which I'm starting to think she believes she is. You don't get to that level without a certain ego level. And you don't do this to Kanye as your "first" or "only" nasty stunt. She's done this before. We just may never know to whom, or what she did. At the end of the day, she appears to not be a nice person, and is looking after number one - herself.

[–]funsizedaisy 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

How many are actual friends, and not sort of trapped in her circle?

I wonder if a lot of people try to be friends with her because they see how nasty she is with her enemies. There's probably a lot of people in her "squad" that only keep her close so they won't get on her bad side.

[–]acrossthestarss 52ポイント53ポイント  (7子コメント)

Taylor was never a nice girl. In Speak Now, she slut shamed Camilla Belle but we all said "oh she was young, immature, etc". And her songwriting talent made us ignore that.... Red was harmless and just Taylor not looking for attention/fame... But man oh man, 1989 was her going ALL out for more fame, which ultimately fucked up her "good girl faith" image. The whole firing her old band members and then them tweeting that someone has "changed" and only cares about "being #1" should've clued us in on her plans. Everything else was a roller coaster until Katy then Nicki and finally ending with Kanye..

[–]annmarierules 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

what happened with her old band? i think i missed this

[–]acrossthestarss 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

she fired most of them before the start of 1989 because she didn't need them (i.e. she now only uses a synth and back up dancers). i think she kept Amos and someone else who play guitar, but that's it. grant, caitlyn, etc hinted at "someone" only caring about getting #1 hit songs and fame. this was after red ended and a few months before 1989 came out.

[–]YouVersusTheSea -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

? Her music style changed. There was no need for a touring band anymore. I don't think that is a fair judgment to make at all. Of course she wants to get #1 songs. It's called the music BUSINESS for a reason. Are you seriously suggesting she should have not explored new creative paths simply so she could keep her employees around? Because if so, that is fucking stupid.

[–]rodger_mexico 22ポイント23ポイント  (34子コメント)

But now I learn that she is a liar and a backstabber to her friend

What I don't understand is, if she's lying, why did she tell Kanye on the phone he likes those lines and doesn't mind it, and it's sweet of him to ask, and he's free to do whatver he likes... and then when the song came out get angry at it? It's like, she changed her mind and realized she made a mistake by giving consent? Or Kanye did or said something that got her really mad and she decided he deserves to get lied about?

[–]bergamaut 25ポイント26ポイント  (6子コメント)

Conspiracy theory: Lena Dunham told Taylor that she thought it was disrespectful.

[–]TW_CountryMusic 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

Honestly I don't think this is far from the truth. I think when Famous came out and there was a lot of public backlash about the lyrics being misogynist, Taylor saw it as an opportunity to get some feminist street cred, so she threw Kanye under the bus. As a feminist and a Taylor fan I find it so gross and pandering.

[–]kj01a 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

I wouldn't be surprised if this was the truth...

[–]broketeen1 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Are they still friends? I haven't seen them together in awhile.

[–]witchslayer9000 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

yh they are because lena penned some disgusting lame ass thing about how offensive the famous video was (but it's pointless to regard it highly as she (lena) hates black ppl)

[–]thebigsplat 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

lena dunham is fucking crazy. She thinks cheap sushi in university dining halls is cultural appropriation because apparently cheap food is a racist mockery of all things Japanese.

[–]carsonogin 75ポイント76ポイント  (10子コメント)

I'm not hurt at all. Does this somehow make her music less enjoyable?

Money and power will corrupt everyone. Stars are not infallible, in my experience they are more prone to being awful as they don't live in the real world.

[–]jrobinson3k1 38ポイント39ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think money and power "corrupted" her. It just turns out she a normal human being like everyone else (surprise). You do some good things, and you do some bad things.

That's why I don't get how people can be so obsessed with a particular celebrity. They're not a better version of humanity. They're the exact same version, just with their good sides put on display and their bad sides hidden from view.

[–]FreeAsInFreedoooooom 16ポイント17ポイント  (3子コメント)

Does this somehow make her music less enjoyable?

Yes.

[–]carsonogin 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Okay, that's your perogitive.

[–]EXM15 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Some people think of music also through the artist. It's sometimes very meaningful.

[–]CocoaMotive 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Same. I dislike her revenge songs, especially "better than revenge" (dear god, that was bad, Camilla did not deserve that) But she's not a God. She's a kid, and yep she's a bit narcissistic and yep she's fucked up and yep she's been a bit of a bitch. However I'm in no doubt that John Mayer, Kanye and Katy were all giant assholes as well.

[–]zaviex 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Some people idolized the person not the music. I'm a Taylor fan but I've never cared about her as a person. On the other hand I really liked Kanye's open attitude and wanted to be like him until the bill Cosby thing

[–]TangoSierra990 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

tl;dr Kanye was right

[–][deleted] 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thank you for summing this up perfectly. Her music was supposed to be a reflection of her so it feels fake now. I was listening to my all time favourite songs of hers today and for the first time in eight years of listening to her I felt... absolutely nothing.

[–]franch 52ポイント53ポイント  (6子コメント)

taylor swift, like every other pop star, rap star, and person, is not perfect. still love her.

[–]icouldfinallybreathe 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

I want to ask everyone if they've ever lied and gotten caught up in it. Its happened to everyone at some point or another. We're just lucky enough to not have people so vengeful in our lives, and to not live our lives under a microscope.

[–]foltaggio 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, what she's done here has been very disappointing and it's been handled very badly so far, but I still love her. Taylor is human, and humans are not perfect. I hope things will get better with her, and this shitstorm doesn't become an even bigger disaster.

[–]xlptu 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yup, how the fuck a person doing something a bit shady changes your life that much? Will always love her singing.

[–]garbuja 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Taylor 0 Kanye 1 Kim 5

[–]TROLOLOLBOT 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

I feel bad for Selena. She ride or die 👌🏿

[–]justessforall1 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

I mean part of the video did confirm taylor. Although, I think a lot of this was that at first Taylor didn't care about the line.. But the second her fans stood up for her... she couldn't admit that she knew it. So, she played victim.

It was very disappointing, she should have just said "I was aware of this, but thats not the line I approved" because thats essentially what happened.

[–]terp02andrew 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

So, she played victim.

I'm starting to think Tay was never the victim - in anything really. And that's the truly eye-opening thing to come out of this.

The basis for a lot of fans is about a personal connection, something to identify with. Are people going to connect with a 1% of a 1% person? Probably not. So she shed that and crafted a better one, which to be fair, definitely drew me and countless others to become a fan of hers.

Now that the veil has been lifted, many of us will probably still love the music. But I think that's the extent of it going forward, in being a fan of her music.

[–]Farrowth[S] 30ポイント31ポイント  (15子コメント)

Fuck. This is gonna sound so melodramatic but im on the verge of tears. This depresses me so much. I was a huge fan and the more I think about it the more question everything she did in the past. I might be in the 5 stages of grief like another commenter said

[–]jrobinson3k1 51ポイント52ポイント  (4子コメント)

It ain't worth idolizing celebrities to the point of tears. Who they are on TV and in front of fans is not who they are behind closed doors. Just expect that every celebrity has their good sides and their bad sides, like any normal human being. No one is as pure as they look.

[–]WhySheHateMe 29ポイント30ポイント  (1子コメント)

Literally every celebrity you like has burned someone at some point in their life.

I don't think you should take this so hard. At the end of the day, this drama is really between 3 people and does not include anybody on this sub or anyone else out there. All 3 of them are probably chilling at home right now not caring very much about any of this. Why shed tears over it?

[–]superr_rad 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Everyone is gonna forget about this when TS6 comes around anyways.

[–]MissyBee37 22ポイント23ポイント  (7子コメント)

Try to take it with a grain of salt. We truly don't know the full story. I never trust a video edited by someone who can use those edits to make him or herself look better, i.e. Kim in defense of her husband, Kanye. The video she posted is incomplete and we can't be sure it wasn't tampered with. It doesn't paint a full picture; there's no context for some of the pieces of dialogue. It also plainly doesn't include the line "I made that bitch famous." So, without knowing the full story, without being in on that phone call, we don't know.

And even if you assume she's full-out lying here, we don't know the circumstances or reasoning. Did more happen that we don't know about to change her mind? Was it a PR stunt? Was it an ill-advised business move? Did she just change her mind? Who knows?

So if you love her and you want to keep loving her, choose to give Taylor the benefit of the doubt. Best case scenario, Kanye & Kim are just twisting this to make her look bad, and she deserves our support and sympathy. Worst case scenario, maybe she really did screw up. Or it's somewhere in the middle. The way I see it, even if she did -- maybe -- lie, at least partially, she's only human, and clearly this whole thing must be hurtful, embarrassing and frustrating for her either way. I feel sorry for her.

Just my 2 cents. Best wishes <3

[–]Protanope 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

Best case scenario, Kanye & Kim are just twisting this to make her look bad

Really? How is it a best case scenario that two people are liars instead of one? We don't know the full story, but what Kim has released paints a pretty clear picture of what went down. Taylor herself specifically said that she didn't have any problems with any of the lyrics and then went on to drag Kanye West through the mud at the Grammys.

It's one thing to be a liar. It's another to publicly drag another person's reputation through the mud, especially after you've been recorded on tape saying that you would do the exact opposite.

[–]MissyBee37 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Best case scenario from the perspective of a response to someone clearly hurt by what Taylor allegedly did. If you're hurt by someone's actions, the best case scenario is that the person isn't guilty of said actions.

Taylor herself specifically said that she didn't have any problems with any of the lyrics and then went on to drag Kanye West through the mud at the Grammys.

That's not really true, though. Taylor says some variations of a line are OK. But which all variations did she hear? Of which line? We don't know without more context. Did he add or change things later? Who knows? This is what I mean about not having the full story.

[–]Protanope 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

That's not really true, though. Taylor says some variations of a line are OK. But which all variations did she hear? Of which line? We don't know without more context. Did he add or change things later? Who knows? This is what I mean about not having the full story.

That can literally be said about anything, ever. Someone post a video? It could have been edited. Someone post a photo? It could have been Photoshopped. Maybe Taylor Swift is a robot being controlled by aliens. We just don't have "the full story".

[–]MissyBee37 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Sure, theoretically speaking, but come on. But this particular video is clearly in pieces. It had to be, in order to be shared on snapchat. There are frequent, obvious cuts. Are those cuts strictly because of snapchat video limits? Or are there pieces missing? Is it shot in order? Is that really the entire phone call? There's a degree of media literacy required to evaluate a video like this. And there's a question of who made and shared the video. It matters whether a video is made by a professional or an amateur, a third party or someone involved, etc. What about motive? I'm not doubting the video because I'm a conspiracy theorist; I'm doubting it because it isn't credible and I choose to be smarter than to fall for every video I see on the Internet. I'm not saying Kanye's side of the story is all wrong; I'm saying we don't know enough.

[–]Protanope 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

And what I'm saying is that when people get to say that this "isn't good enough" for them, it's BS because no one is trying to claim that Taylor Swift is a Nazi or that she burned someone's house down. They're saying that this shows she lied. She said that she was not told about the song or its content. She was. Do we know every single detail? No, but to think "well I don't know if I believe Kanye yet and still need to see more" after this coming out is just willful ignorance.

[–]brightlove 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is it possible that we're blowing this out of proportion? Honestly, I feel really hurt too. I'm a huge fan. I've seen her live multiple times and 'Red' got me through my toughest break up... I've always been able to relate to her as the girl who was better at writing her feelings than saying them - who rather stay in and bake than go to clubs.

And with the phone calls released it does seem like Taylor backstabbed a friend, lied to all of us multiple times, was extremely calculated and casually cruel. And it also forces us to face things she did in her past that suggest she's been a mean girl all along. (The Camilla song, mean, and Bad Blood)

But... what if she just messed up? She has the whole world on her shoulders, watching her and waiting for her to finally mess up... And she's constantly battling to be a good role model and escape negative media despite millions of people always trying to make her look bad.

Yes, she lied. Everyone's lied at least once... She did give her approval. But what if the song came out and she heard Kanye calling her a bitch and just had a different reaction to the song than she thought she would. She decided that she wouldn't be a good role model to young girls if she just let a guy call her that and not address it.

However, she should not have made that speech. A good, kind friend would have spoken to Kanye about it first and then made her Grammy speech less pointed while still getting her feelings across. What if she just got scared, and what started as a small lie ended up spinning out of control as her PR team kept telling her she had to gain control of her image again... Maybe she just took awful advice under pressure.

I'm hoping she's the kind Taylor we all know and love and just made a series of mistakes under the pressure of fame. I guess we'll find out on her next album.

[–][deleted] 10ポイント11ポイント  (6子コメント)

You know, I don't care. Everyone who knows me knows that I loved Taylor Swift from day one and when this happened I was it was kinda shitty but now I'm like "fuck it, she's human." Regardless of the he said she said bullshit (and that's all this is), nobody's perfect; everybody does shitty things from time to time. A couple weeks ago I was an asshole to an acquaintance of mine that I haven't seen/spoken to in years. Does that mean I'm an asshole for the rest of my life and all the good things I've done don't matter?

Nothing will ever make me stop loving Taylor. She's been the one constant in my life over the years and she's gotten me through some very rough patches.

Wasn't that long ago when slut shaming Taylor was the popular thing to do. Then everybody loved her and now I guess the tables have flipped again. She always weathers the storm, and that I can respect.

[–]IncreasinglyAwkward 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think people have a problem with her not liking people or making mistakes or even her being mean or nice. I think people have a problem with her playing the victim and shifting blame and hate towards other people when her whole persona is based on; innocent, women should support each other, bullying is bad, . Like yeah she's a person and everyone can mess up, so I still fucking love her. I don't hate her for any of this bc all id like is for her to act like the real person she is rather than have to be "innocent" and a victim in the public eye and kinda reciprocated to others.

[–]CnCKilgannon -3ポイント-2ポイント  (4子コメント)

This is exactly how I feel, I came here to say that!

Kanye has done a load of dickish things in his career but everyone is just like "That's Kanye lol" and just gets one with it. Taylor makes a fuck up and everyone leaps at it and forms a lynch mob.

[–]Eythx 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

Really? I've never seen Kanye West really get a pass for anything by the media or the general public. I'm a big fan of him, but I'd happily admit he's probably one of the most hated figures in pop culture, and is pretty much slated in one form or another with every move he makes.

[–]Tod_Gottes 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I came to this subreddit just for the drama. But ill go ahead and play devils advocate and say this could very well have little to do with her and mostly decisions made by a publicist.

[–]GenericVodka13 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

Pretty much. I feel so betrayed. I know I shouldn't, but it's like losing a good friend.

[–]dayshark 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

I know I shouldn't feel betrayed either and people are saying, "Oh, it's just a celebrity you don't know," but I've been a huge fan of her for seven years now (since I was ten). She got me through a lot of stuff, like a close friend of mine turning around and bullying me (...kind of similar to what she did to Kanye), and she inspired me to learn guitar and to gain confidence, so to find out she did this sort of hurts.

Edit: Grammar

Edit #2: I'm still a huge fan of her music, and I know celebrities are people and have flaws like the rest of us, but I need a moment or two to fully understand how to not put her on a pedestal like I used to.

[–]GenericVodka13 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Right? It's not her explicitly, it's what we made her mean to us. And this sort of stuff...cheapens all those times and what she meant.

[–]KeepingItLoopy 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd like to say that when I posted a similar topic like a week ago, I got yelled at by everyone: https://www.reddit.com/r/TaylorSwift/comments/4spiyz/is_taylor_swift_secretly_a_mean_person_shes_had/?st=iqss1lco&sh=11cc8666

Seems like I was right.

[–]tostinita 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

I feel betrayed, too. Admittedly, I'm still holding out hope that there is some sort of plausible explanation for this, but I really, REALLY can't imagine what that might be.

[–]icouldfinallybreathe 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

Lol people are acting like she killed someone or something. I cannot understand why everyone is making a mountain out of a mole hill over this.

[–]streetgoon 48ポイント49ポイント  (2子コメント)

because she's the one who made it a big deal in the first place...

[–]4amchocolatepudding -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Probably because it's taylor swift. She's mostly been seen as someone with high character. It's really not that big a deal though.

[–]Ajbarr98 9ポイント10ポイント  (6子コメント)

She didn't approve of the second line though, "I made that bitch famous" was never approved, at the Grammys she didn't bash his line "We might still have sex" she bashed on the fact that he claimed he made her famous. "Some people might try and take credit for your hard work" isn't referencing the sex line it references the made her famous line. We all know Taylor doesn't give a fuck about what people say about her anymore, she even uses sarcasm multiple times in the video when she's talking to him it's funny that they don't even notice. She never said she was mad about the sex line, she's mad he's taking credit for her hard work.

[–]acrossthestarss 42ポイント43ポイント  (3子コメント)

Sorry to burst your bubble but Taylor KNEW about that famous line... from transcript:

...awesome that you're so outspoken and it's gonna be like, Yea, she does, it made her famous! It's more provocative to say, Might still have sex.

While she may have not approved “that bitch” line, she approved the “made you famous” line, which is what she made her whole AOTY speech about. Sorry, I also wanted to believe that she didn't lie and backstab her so called "friend", but she did. :(

[–]WhySheHateMe 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Everybody has, two sides fam. Don't be upset because the side you didn't know existed leaked out for a bit...

Besides, this will blow over soon. The popcorn is already getting stale.

[–]Christ_on_a_Crakker 8ポイント9ポイント  (10子コメント)

TIL that Taylor Swift is a human being with faults just like everyone else.

If you are a real lover of humanity you have to get to a point where you choose to love the whole package.

She made a mistake, but how much of that was done in an effort to maintain a personsa that was thrust upon her by her fan base? Do you love Taylor, or do you love your own ideals of who she is?

[–]myfaceislikewhoa 15ポイント16ポイント  (9子コメント)

This is bullshit. Plenty of other singer songwriters who don't write songs shitting on everyone they know and being the queen of drama. How is this acting like a normal person when you have enough wealth and fame to do ANYTHING yet you choose to fuck with people ?

[–]MissyBee37 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think the important distinction is whether her songs are "shitting on everyone" or just about people. Songs like "Better than Revenge" and "Bad Blood" -- or "Famous", from Kanye's side -- get a bad rap for dragging specific people's name through the mud for questionable reasons. Just writing about life and people you've encountered, though, is a different story. Whether people speculate about a song's inspiration is a bit out of your hands -- unless you drive the narrative by being so specific as to draw attention to that person, ala naming her, like Kanye did, or giving enough blatant clues to let everyone else figure it out, like Taylor's RS interview that's pretty easily understood to be about Katy Perry.

People can write whatever they feel like; no one can stop these artists from writing anything (unless it rises to the level of legal proceedings). But what people often forget is that free speech comes with consequences. Taylor can write whatever she pleases, but people can also react however they want. In your case, your reaction is that she's a queen of drama and should choose to do something better than to "fuck with" people. In some cases, I totally agree. In other cases, I think she's just a gifted writer whose work, unfortunately, is scrutinized way beyond a level that's reasonable to discern exactly which person she may or may not be writing about. Most of the time, I don't think that's her fault. But sometimes... I don't know. IMO, sometimes, it can go too far, and then, I too wish she'd use her wealth, fame and voice for something better than drama.

(That's to say nothing of what Kanye & Kim could be doing with their time, wealth, fame and voices. But that's another question, and I don't care enough about this "feud" to get into that one.)

[–]InBurningRed 6ポイント7ポイント  (7子コメント)

Some of her peers, like Ed Sheeran, Nicki Minaj, and Katy Perry, write songs trashing people. There's no reason to single Taylor out.

[–]MissyBee37 7ポイント8ポイント  (6子コメント)

Uh, what song has Katy Perry ever written that trashed somebody? I'm not saying it's right or wrong to write songs about your life or other people, I'm just questioning what song you're referring to?

[–]Listeningtosufjan 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't think Katy has any "diss" tracks but she does have Ur So Gay which is offensive on a level Taylor never reached.

[–]MissyBee37 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

But, the original point was about writing songs "shitting on everyone they know" and "trashing people." If we're going for artists with offensive songs, well, sure, I can make a huge long list of those from a variety of genres (pop, rap, country, rock) -- songs about nasty, graphic sex; songs grossly objectifying women (I'm not just talking about hot girls); songs about drugs and rape and more. But if that's the issue, it's an industry-wide one that's gone on for decades. A tongue-in-cheek, witty song about a guy who acts like a gay stereotype surely isn't the worst of the problem lol.

[–]InBurningRed 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Listen to her songs Circle The Drain and Part of Me. They're about Travie McCoy and Russell Brand.

[–]Lotrug 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

just because she visits sick children at a hospital doesn't make her a good person. lt's all publicity :/

[–]InBurningRed 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm 100% down with evil genius Taylor. I love that she's so calculated. It means that she is going to be around for a VERY long time.

[–]Mother-Dick 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well not that calculated considering she got caught out.

[–]freddisier 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

think of it this way. Taylor already said in the video, the lyrics are all very tongue in cheek and controversial so there's really a fine line between a joke and an insult/diss here. From just listening to Kanye speaking out the lyrics on the phone, she probably thought it sounded like a joke and knowing Taylor she's very comfortable with laughing at herself, so I think it makes sense that she was ok with it. However, in the finished track, the lyrics might now sound like a diss in the full context (which she was not made aware of), and the fact that Kanye replaced 'her' with 'that bitch' definitely helped to make it sound that way even more.

She should have just been honest and said she changed her mind. None of this would have happened.

[–]ddrchamp13 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

I agree 100%. Honestly when I saw people posting online that Kim released the "phone call", i thought that it was a joke. But i decided i'd click it anyway, and my heart sunk as the video went on and on. By the end of it, everything I believed about Taylor and Kanye had flipped completely. I just sat at my computer, speechless. My mom came into my room to bring me a plate of chicken nuggets and I literally screamed at her and hit the plate of chicken nuggets out of her hand. She started yelling and swearing at me and I slammed the door on her. I'm so distressed right now I don't know what to do. I didn't mean to do that to my mom but I'm literally in shock from the video tonight. I feel like I'm going to explode. Why the fucking fuck is she lying? This can't be happening. I'm having a fucking breakdown. I don't want to believe the world is so corrupt. I want a future to believe in. I want Taylor to win a grammy for Kanye. I cannot fucking deal with this right now. It wasn't supposed to be like this, I thought they were supposed to be friends???? This is so fucked.

[–]Dr_CSS 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

No GBP for you young man

[–]Grandeplease 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ok, this is in no way a diss, but advice.. you need to find a life where YOU are the center. Do not EVER place a celebrity, one you don't personally know, on a pedestal. Your poor mum was just trying to serve you food and you went all crazy because of taylor? Taylor isn't an angel, never was, so... you need to chill. Secondly, no.

[–]Svviftie 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

They're doing a version of the Chicken Nuggets copypasta that was originally posted about Bernie Sanders' loss to Hillary Clinton.

[–]cardboardtube_knight 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you're hurt by this you probably need to grow up. No one is perfect and it doesn't change her music.

[–]MICHAELSD01 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

The lack of support for Taylor on this sub-Reddit is baffling. If we find out that she did originally approve of the "I made that bitch famous line," then feel free to label her what you may. However, as of right now that is not the case.

[–]iHeartCandicePatton 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

But now I learn that she is a liar and a backstabber to her friend.

What friend?

[–]Ajbarr98 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You aren't understand she never approved it, she approved the sex line, not the bitch line.

[–]ultrab0ii 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Reply to comment saying she only visited sick children's hospitals for publicity and doesn't make her a good person (comment didn't go through): Even if it was all for publicity, it doesn't change the fact that she's a superstar with millions of fans and made those sick children extremely happy. It wouldn't make her a good person if she truly is only doing it for herself, but it doesn't make her a bad person since she's still making them happy. She'll only be a bad person if she was actually a huge bitch to them off camera which I really doubt... She targets a lot of people in her songs but seems good to her fans at least.

[–]Ajbarr98 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

I don't agree with this at all. Taylor hasn't done anything wrong in my eyes, even with the video Kim just proved that Taylor has been telling us the truth and nothing but the truth, Kim's just looking for ways to stay relevant at this point and the worlds doing what it does best, hating Taylor swift for 0 reason.

[–]SkippingTheDots 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly, you should SEE, what Khloe did to a 16 year old girl, she attempted to body / slut shame, 19 year old Mortez who she thought was dating Taylor (was not defending Taylor.)

And, than you got Kim bullying her beforehand, saying; "National Snake Day" and spamming Snakes, and getting Kendall and everyone in on it. When Kim is apparently AGAINST bullying.

[–]MrFusionHER 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh my god. Who the hell cares. You litterally don't know her at all. Listen to her music and who gives a fuck about everything else. Jesus Christ.

[–]Ultragrrrl -3ポイント-2ポイント  (28子コメント)

The fact that Taylor is upset about being referred to as "that bitch" reveals how tonedeaf she is to black culture. the term "bitch" is not derogatory (kanye used it to described his own wife in another song) in modern hiphip, but rather as an adnoun replacement for "person of the female gender."

[–]Le_Lapin_Noir 7ポイント8ポイント  (24子コメント)

Newsflash. Taylor isn't African American or a part of the African American cultural process.

[–]sequinbikini -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

No, but he is and he is the artist. A

[–]Le_Lapin_Noir 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

But he's dragged her in against her will. The dude is fucking creepy. He's been basically stalking her for years now.

[–]icouldfinallybreathe 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pretty sure kim being ok with it says more about Kim than it does about Taylor.

[–]TotesMessenger 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

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[–]KingVikram 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

People need to stop following the hive mind narrative that Taylor got "caught".

She approved a LINE over the phone not the song. Big difference.

And the biggest part of it all is that Kanye did NOT tell her about the bitch line.

That's like your friend saying "you cool with me coming over tonight?" then bringing coke and hookers.

The best part is that Kanye is the "snake" in this. He knew what he was doing. He knew he was recording her to use it later.

[–]tiffanydisasterxoxo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

For years we have gotten to know her, from interviews her work and everyone that has met her. We've also gotten to know him, I'm on her side 100%

[–]freddisier 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

swifties, think of the 10 years worth of music and dedication that she shared with you guys. Do you think all of that can just be washed away by some accusations by Kim freaking Kardashian? Seriously? Even the way she 'supposedly' exposed Taylor was shady and just to paint her in the most negative light. Yes Taylor might not be completely honest about this, but the person she's doing this to, publicly humiliated her on national TV, and just thinking of this kind of grotesque lyrics was a dick move to begin with. But in the end, if you still want to take Kim and Kanye side, we swifties are happy to let you go.