全 114 件のコメント

[–]ZanctmaoQuality Contributor 393ポイント394ポイント  (47子コメント)

Yeah, no. This is a hall of fame level stupid decision. Plaintiff's attorneys would line up around the block for the opportunity to represent this woman. If this business relied in any way on working with the public their reputation would go up in smoke, and they'd be subject to discipline by the EEOC.

Essentially this policy is: "People with disabilities, specifically disabilities that are associated with recent military service, are icky and we don't want to see them. We'd also like our black employees to wear a lot of caked on white makeup if possible so they look less black."

[–]legal_throwaway_803[S] 215ポイント216ポイント  (39子コメント)

Funny you should say that because the prosthetic (leg below the knee) is the result of military service and the new owner and president say that it makes them uncomfortable.

[–]catladygoals 177ポイント178ポイント  (14子コメント)

UNBELIEVABLE. Even if someone felt this way (which...?) I can't fathom that they would be so stupid to say it out loud.

[–]RealPutin 176ポイント177ポイント  (6子コメント)

This may have been the stupidest employer to come through this sub. Disabled and a veteran? In Virginia? Even if legal, that's asking to go out of business.

EDIT: I vote OP follows the dress code :p show up without the prosthetic. Stump it up in a business meeting, explain she isn't allowed a prosthetic

[–]here-we-stand 83ポイント84ポイント  (2子コメント)

Stump it up in a business meeting, explain she isn't allowed a prosthetic

Real nonchalantly, like she's just making small talk: "Yeah, y'know we can't display prostheses here, so I figured it'd be easier to just take it off than modify my clothes or something."

Would be especially effective if the meeting involves people from outside the company.

[–]El-Doctoro 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

Make sure there is a lot of emphasis on the "veteran" part.

[–]bugdog 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

They just want to show how much they nub the new company policy!

[–]shadowofashadow 23ポイント24ポイント  (0子コメント)

I almost wore a skirt to work once just as a protest for the men's dress code... I can't imagine what I'd do if I were in this employee's situation. So many options... Maybe craft your own prosthetic with lots of bedazzling and sparkles so that it is not offensive to the boss? :D

[–]Cheefnuggs 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's not legal. People with disabilities are protected from discrimination by law. It's like the first thing HR reads you when you sign your employment forms on your first day

[–]RealPutin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh I know, I was one of the first to respond here saying that. I was just saying that on top of that, it's fucking stupid.

[–]Zbignich 49ポイント50ポイント  (3子コメント)

UNBELIEVABLE. Even if someone felt this way (which...?) I can't fathom that they would be so stupid to say it out loud. put it in writing.

[–]RealPutin 53ポイント54ポイント  (2子コメント)

And it's even clearly in writing aimed at females with prosthetic legs, not just general prosthetics.

God that was stupid

[–]horsenbuggy 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well, guys can't wear kilts.

By the way, one of my employees has a prosthetic leg and he loves to show it off on shorts day. But we love that kind of stuff around here.

[–]quantum-quetzal 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

If I had a prosthetic, I'd sure as hell like showing it off. Especially if it looked like this one.

[–]overcherie 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

Insane! "oh, I'm sorry that the sight of my leg makes YOU feel uncomfortable. It certainly wasn't uncomfortable when I was fighting for your freedom and it got blown off." good Christ that's just plain mean

[–]VenomB 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Missing limbs and prosthetics freak me the fuck out. But I keep that shit internal unless I am connected with the person. I don't have to like or understand something to respect it.

Prosthetics are not on the level of tattoos here.

[–]ZanctmaoQuality Contributor 70ポイント71ポイント  (4子コメント)

So they'd get veterans groups protesting them as well. That's a "winning" strategy for sure. The new boss and owner need to drop $2k in a consult with an employment lawyer. When he stops laughing, he'll tell them in no uncertain terms that this is folly of the highest order. Then the lawyer will gleefully tell his staff about the company that just came to him because they will be the source of a ton of business.

[–]sloppyjoes7 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

I have you tagged as an actual lawyer. So I believe that you're right that the employer is acting stupidly.

But what can OP reasonably do in this situation? Is there any advice he can give the prosthetic-wearing woman?

[–]ZanctmaoQuality Contributor 30ポイント31ポイント  (0子コメント)

It is unclear in what position OP is: fellow worker, concerned manager, troll(?), secretary with access to information ... who knows. What they can or cannot do entirely depends on their relationship with the young woman, the boss, and the company. If OP wants to watch the world burn, they could just let this happen and get out the popcorn.

[–]RealPutin 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Inform the employer it's illegal.

If they ever, ever terminate her, sue the shit outta em

[–]hopeful_nihilist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, not to the lawyer or his staff, due to conflicts of interest.

[–]wiredinmycoffee 25ポイント26ポイント  (0子コメント)

is the result of military service

the new owners are really playing with fire here, people would be very very upset if this information got out

this policy is directed at one person with a prosthetic leg (a veteran no less!), and i would think a lawyer would be pretty excited about getting a case like this

[–]pm-me-neckbeards 36ポイント37ポイント  (6子コメント)

the new owner and president say that it makes them uncomfortable.

Would they also ask someoene with a facial deformity to wear a paper bag over their head?

[–]BUBBLYSTRING 26ポイント27ポイント  (3子コメント)

the new owner and president say that it makes them uncomfortable.

I'm stuck on 'it makes them uncomfortable?'

[–]pm-me-neckbeards 29ポイント30ポイント  (2子コメント)

Right?

"Sorry that my missing half a leg from my wartime service to this fucking country makes you a little queasy."

[–]RealPutin 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

To be fair, I'd be a good bit uncomfortable in that workplace too.

Because of the owner though, not the disabled vet

[–]pm-me-neckbeards 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, I bet the new owners lose good employees due to this takeover.

Good bosses don't try to hide employees with disabilities. Especially a prosthetic. Come on.

[–]ContextOfAbuse 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

Would they also ask someoene with a facial deformity to wear a paper bag over their head?

Hey! We've been making /u/demyst wear one for years and you don't hear him complaining.

[–]pv46 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I thought that was because of the ball gag he has on underneath it?

[–]pipsdontsqueak 13ポイント14ポイント  (3子コメント)

Oh man. I know a couple attorneys that would love this lawsuit.

[–]B_G_L 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

Do you only know a couple attorneys?

[–]pipsdontsqueak 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, only a couple VA attorneys. I surprisingly don't know that many considering I'm in DC.

[–]o0Enygma0o 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wel. Not op but I only know a couple plaintiffs side attorneys.

[–]A_Gigantic_Potato 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

is the result of military service

and this is happening in VIRGINIA? I have a feeling that you could just let wind of this to a couple of the town gossipers and the business would decide to change their policy. Or you know...a nice juicy lawsuit would work. A lot more.

[–]I_did_naaaht 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Just wait until you see their brilliant idea for a new marketing campaign, entitled "We Hate Puppies."

[–]DeltaBlack 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just wait until you see their brilliant idea for a new marketing campaign, entitled "We KILL Puppies."

FTFY.

[–]potato1 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

So this is not just disability discrimination but veterans discrimination too? Man, this case just keeps getting easier.

[–]Raincoats_George 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

What an ass. Let this one ride and see how well it works out for them and the resulting shit storm.

[–]reed17purdue 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

"well sir/madam it makes me uncomfortable i had to go fight for your pathetic excuse of a human being and lose part of myself to uphold your beliefs. But then again, i fought for freedom, you're welcome."

[–]skybluebear 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

They are going to feel really uncomfortable when they get sued, lose, and get reamed in the court of public opinion

[–]thalguy 13ポイント14ポイント  (2子コメント)

It makes me happy that this company would be so quickly and thoroughly taken to the woodshed. The new owner and president sounds like a tremendously terrible person. I hope he/she does get sued and destroyed.

[–]ZanctmaoQuality Contributor 20ポイント21ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's part of the problem with this post. While I'm not going to call it a troll post, it does have some of the hallmarks of a troll post - One party very sympathetic, the other unquestionably diabolical, etc. the possibilities, as I see them, are that we're getting half or a quarter of the story, the story is very slanted, or the story is made up.

[–]thalguy 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

It certainly could be a troll post, but there are a lot of terrible people with poor judgement in the world and I think it's possible this terrible person just rose to power.

[–]tloznerdo 17ポイント18ポイント  (3子コメント)

If you're right, this case sounds like a great instant retirement plan for the employee.

[–]ZanctmaoQuality Contributor 26ポイント27ポイント  (2子コメント)

It doesn't work that way. What would happen, theoretically, is that she'd continue to wear skirts until she was fired. Then file a lawsuit. The lawsuit would take give or take two years. Then she'd get back wages, emotional damages, and some other crap, plus they'd be forced to offer her her old job back.

Not a life changing windfall, but enough to be notable.

[–]KnyteTech 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Presumably she'd get a new job elsewhere, and 2 years+ of pay in a lump sum is a hell of a windfall for almost anybody.

[–]ZanctmaoQuality Contributor 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agreed, but instant retirement it ain't.

[–]migrainevision 133ポイント134ポイント  (10子コメント)

NAL but I wrote my PhD dissertation on corporate policy and discrimination. You'd be amazed what dumb ass policies are dreamed up by people who have no idea what they're doing. This is a dream case and if we're lucky enough your employer will be so stupid they'll let it go to court and they'll get to be featured in someone else's dissertation.

[–]CowOrker01 74ポイント75ポイント  (0子コメント)

Cmon, don't leave us hanging. Give us some examples of bad policies!

[–]alice-in-canada-land 43ポイント44ポイント  (0子コメント)

Um, yeah, I'm afraid you are now legally required to share many of these stories with us.

[–]derspiny 22ポイント23ポイント  (6子コメント)

Which university do I have to visit to read your dissertation?

[–]npsage 29ポイント30ポイント  (0子コメント)

We're all going on a subreddit field trip!

[–]Sluisifer 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

AFAIK most programs file dissertations with ProQuest, so unless there's an embargo on the work (to publish remaining manuscripts and such) it should be available. You generally need institutional access to view them free. If you find the title, though, you can often find it on an author's ResearchGate page.

[–]derspiny 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can't buy u/migrainevision a beer through ProQuest, but I can if I'm visiting their institution.

I've also got a soft spot for dead-tree reading.

[–]pangrametry 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Keep in mind though that if it's older than a couple of years you might have a hell of a time finding it!

[–]jmurphy42 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nah, most universities have been electronically publishing dissertations a few years longer than that.

[–]sirophiuchus 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Many PhD dissertations are also available on the university's website or library website. If not, they may be on the author's Academia.edu page if they have one. And if not, consider emailing the author and asking. Most will fall all over themselves to send you a PDF.

[–]The_Sven 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

You'd be amazed what dumb ass policies are dreamed up by people who have no idea what they're doing.

I work in grocery for a big corporation. I am keenly aware of when a new policy comes from a person fresh out of business school vs having actually worked in a grocery store before.

[–]JadieRose 43ポイント44ポイント  (1子コメント)

I commented on the first post as well - this is definitely illegal. I cannot believe an employer would be this dumb as to put something like this in writing.

[–]legal_throwaway_803[S] 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

Apologies for that. For some reason it posted 3 times I deleted two of them when I noticed.

[–]mgahan 30ポイント31ポイント  (1子コメント)

OP please post an update to this when something is resolved. genuinely curious.

[–]here-we-stand 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm extremely curious. I've read through the post like three times now in sheer awe of the glue-eating stupidity.

[–]wintremute 25ポイント26ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'm going to assume that no one in HR has had any input on this? Because it's nuclear waste level toxic. They're singling out and actively discriminating against a disabled combat veteran for being disabled. I'd bet there are some powerful politicians that represent her that would be quite interested to know about this. She should drop a dime or two.

[–]AF_Bunny 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

More then just veterans get prosthetic limbs.

[–]alice-in-canada-land 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Elsewhere, OP confirmed that this person was injured during military service.

[–]wintremute 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

OP said in another post that she lost it in the military.

[–]I-do-not-like-this 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Even if the affected person was not a veteran, veterans groups would crawl out of the woodwork to back her.

[–]Grimsterr 34ポイント35ポイント  (2子コメント)

So is she raffling off who gets to represent her? Lawyers would be willing to put HER on retainer just to get their hands on this juicy peach of a case.

This is the very textbook (not that I've ever read a law textbook) of why the EEOC exists and is so illegal.

[–]punriffer5 21ポイント22ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes judge, I've actually done 0 preparation for this case. I'm going to ask my client to walk over to the stand and explain her case, and then we can get to the financial ruling, your honor.

[–]RealPutin 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

TIL I can litigate this case as a physics student

How to pay for college!

[–]Draqur 38ポイント39ポイント  (13子コメント)

Is there some reason for this? Is she being rude somehow involving her prosthetic leg? Did this new rule come out of no where?

Was she detaching it and beating people with it? Was she storing food in it, and it was getting moldy? Perhaps housing a family of squirrels? Does it make cool (potentially annoying to non-fun people) noises like transformer robots?

This is such an absurd rule to be created out of the blue, there must be some backstory to it.

[–]legal_throwaway_803[S] 29ポイント30ポイント  (9子コメント)

A new owner has purchased the company and the president retired and a new one is hired. They say it makes them uncomfortable. That's the only issue. This person wears skirts every day.

[–]megabyte1 25ポイント26ポイント  (0子コメント)

That is truly just terrible. You're a good friend for pursuing this.

[–]swalsh411Quality Contributor 15ポイント16ポイント  (1子コメント)

You know what should make even more uncomfortable? The thought of an expensive lawsuit and public shaming. If this is ever actually enforced I hope somebody sues his balls to the wall.

[–]coronavitae 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The irony is that if they know this, they can just change the policy and fire her at-will. If she brings it up, then that would look like retaliation, but a good mediocre lawyer could easily enable the president to discriminate against her if he does it "correctly."

[–]RealPutin 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

Tell her to go in without the leg. Use crutches. See if that makes them uncomfortable. Doesn't violate their dress code now, does it?

[–]revenant211 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Or better yet, forget the crutches, just hop and/or crawl.

[–]JadieRose 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

It makes them uncomfortable? I can't even. I almost hope they DO try to fire her so she can sue the pants off them (pun intended) but it would be much smarter to tell them that their dress code policy is discriminatory and a violation of the EEO.

[–]Draqur 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I thought it was going to be a ridiculous answer, maybe something along the lines of their religion not believing people should be allowed to use prosthetic limbs. But because it "makes them uncomfortable?"

That's even more ridiculous than anything I imagined.

Is this person wearing skirts by any chance a man? (or formerly a man?)

I can not see how a sane person, in a position of power, can believe that this is a good decision. ESPECIALLY considering they're a disabled military vet. Please OP, don't say anything yet. Let this new rule of theirs go in to effect. Let them say something to your co-worker. Unless of course, you think your co-worker would be hurt in such a way that it wouldn't be worth it.

Make sure your popcorn stash is full, and since this is a very, very rare occasion that you may never witness again, go ahead and put on some extra butter, and even salt.

[–]revenant211 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well that's just a bunch of bull hooey, is what that is.

She should absolutely wear a skirt tomorrow, and you should make sure you have some sort of water-cooler talk directly outside the new President's office. Or have her just over do it and wear a full on snowsuit every day (though that would be maybe slightly uncomfortable for her).

[–]rhapsodyknit 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The next question would be: is the skirt a religious thing?

[–]horsenbuggy 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Is she being rude somehow involving her prosthetic leg?

Was she detaching it and beating people with it?

It took me a long time to get to your second paragraph because I was imagining just that (and giggling). "Imma kick you in da head!" And then she rips off the leg and hits her coworker upside the head with it.

Aww. I need to show this to my amputee employee. He'd laugh, too.

[–]TIGit 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I used to work with a guy nicknamed "One Legged Louie" on night shift in a QA lab for aerospace materials. We were giving each other shit one night, and I told him I could outrun him so I wasn't afraid. I started walking away. He took his leg off and threw it, kicking me in the back of the head. I took that leg and ran and did not give it back until the end of our shift.

Sometimes work places are just not safe for work.

[–]here-we-stand 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is she being rude somehow involving her prosthetic leg?

Let me put it this way: ever seen Planet Terror?

[–]RealPutin 49ポイント50ポイント  (15子コメント)

NAL, If that dress code applied to everybody and covered all limbs, then the employer would be good to go.

Specifically for someone with prosthetic limbs? That's messed up and quite discriminatory. EEOC would love to see this.

I'll go law hunting to see if I can find something, actual lawyers please correct me

[–]legal_throwaway_803[S] 30ポイント31ポイント  (3子コメント)

Only for people with prothestic limbs. The rest of the dress code says that skirts and dresses may be worn so long as they are just above the knee, short sleeved collared shirts may be worn with a tie as well as sleeveless blouses and dresses, as long as in all cases a jacket is on hand for meetings with clients.

[–]JadieRose 47ポイント48ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd love to see them try to defend this if there's no safety-related reason for them to target a specific, legally protected, segment of the workforce with this policy. And "eww gross!" isn't a defense.

[–]RealPutin 23ポイント24ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah not ok. Uniform dress code required. Only exceptions are when the disabled individual cannot physically wear the uniform.

[–]honkhonkbeepbeeep 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yep, you have to allow people to modify fasteners to require less dexterity or allow a wheelchair user to wear a less tailored version if it's getting hung up in the back or is too hot for them. But that's totally different, and it would be the employee asking for an accommodation.

[–]honkhonkbeepbeeep 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wonder if it still could potentially be an ADA issue though actually. My relative with a prosthetic leg prefers to roll her pantleg up (or wear shorts or skirts) because it's apparently annoying and harder to figure out where the leg is when clothing is pulling at it and getting hung up on it. This doesn't seem any different aesthetically in the workplace than my former colleague who preferred to not use a leg prosthesis and who used crutches instead. He'd pin the pantleg on the side where he was born without a lower leg. It was obvious that dude had a limb difference, and he wasn't doing anything immodest. This workplace required long pants. No one cared because they weren't assholes.

[–]_jackflack 2ポイント3ポイント  (9子コメント)

Aren't you allowed to modify a dress code so people with tattoo's are barred from displaying them? Assuming it applies to all employee's. I would assume this to be similar to that vs. EEOC violation.

[–]RealPutin 43ポイント44ポイント  (7子コメント)

Yeah. But tattooed isn't a protected class.

[–]Emergency_Ward 13ポイント14ポイント  (3子コメント)

What if it's a bitchin' tattoo of an eagle saluting the American flag? Protected? Yes?

[–]The_Sven 31ポイント32ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yes, but you can't just say "my tattoo is bitchin'" and assume it is. You have to apply for a Bitchin' Permit with the Office of Cool Regulation and Protection where it is judged by a panel of judges and given a score on the Fonze Scale. If it receives 80/100 Fonzies than it is declared Officially Bitchin'. However, a simple Eagle isn't usually enough. It needs on have some skulls and monster trucks too.

[–]dezmd 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Explosions. Don't forget the explosions. Perferably with the General Lee emerging from the mid jump.

[–]jaws_forJesus 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

This reads like a Dead Milkmen song.

[–]_jackflack 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Cool, I get that. Thanks :)

[–]isleepinahammock 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

What if it were a religious tattoo, and a core article of your particular faith was that you needed to display religious tattoos?

[–]RealPutin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Eh....maybe? You're gonna have a long way to go to prove that one.

[–]potato1 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

The critical difference is that disability status is a protected class, and missing a limb is a disability.

[–]here-we-stand 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

If she gets fired tomorrow she'll have what can only be described as a slam-dunk case.

Out of morbid curiosity, does the board you mentioned not contain any HR people, or anyone with a firm grip on reality for that matter? For the sake of your friend's employment, I'm hoping management rectifies this asininity before they become known as the company that fired a vet for having a prosthesis.

[–]Copper_Dome 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

I live in Virginia. I wouldn't mind a PM with the name of the company as I'd love to do my best to not patronize them.

[–]andpassword 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

You know you're in for a laugh when they pluralize "employees" with an apostrophe.

[–]Valendr0s 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sir, that lawsuit would be over so quickly, I'd advise you to bring cab fare to the courthouse, since Dr Turk would be driving your Beemer home to his place.

[–]we_got_caught 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

NAL but sounds discriminatory toward people with prosthetics.

[–]Plastonick 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

Presumably you should word it "people with disabilities". If I (currently have all my limbs) were to walk around with a prosthetic, I doubt I'd have much of a defence if I were told to remove it/stop carrying it in the office.

[–]arguablytrue 23ポイント24ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well, I usually wear two prosthetic arms in addition to my two natural arms because I was forewarned.

And forewarned is... four armed.

[–]Zoot-just_zoot 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You just gave me the best real, honest-to-goodness laugh I've had all week. Thanks.

[–]bobbogreeno 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Check out this link. They WILL take action. DOJ doesn't screw around with civil rights issues. https://www.ada.gov/complaint/

[–]I-do-not-like-this 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't have any advice, I just wanted to say I can't imagine how someone would feel uncomfortable around someone with a prosthetic limb; that shit looks metal.

[–]skybluebear 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

OP what is your role in this? Are you HR or another employee at the company? Are you the supervisor for the woman with the prosthetic?