There have been a couple HN posts that others have posted about our Kickstarter for the Superbook, our shell that turns any Android phone into a laptop for $99. We didn't see them until fairly late, so wanted to do an AMA, answering questions about the technology, its applications, our production schedule, manufacturing costs (how we can price it so low), or just anything else in general.
Also wanted to put out an open offer to stop by our offices on 5th and Mission and play with the current working prototype (bring your Android phone too!). Just email me at andrew@andromiumos.com.
I'm serious about the offer to visit our office. We know Kickstarters have a bad rap for vaporware that takes forever to deliver. You can visit and play with our working prototype. You can try our software beta on your Android phone. And if you're in Shenzhen next week, you and I can kick it at one of the CMs we're looking at (currently in Shanghai myself).
I have an Android tablet (Samsung Tab Pro - the 12" beast). An experiment at replacing a laptop on some outings. I bought the A$140 Logitech keyboard / cover, which is good but not great, with some keys being a bit recalcitrant.
Some UI features are frustrating (example: alt-tab brings up the alt-tab switcher - you need to alt-tab twice to move to the most recent process, and toggling between two or three apps on the top of the stack is a common use case for me if I'm trying to do Real Work). An Android problem, I concede.
Given that context - how good is the keyboard, and how are you shipping keyboard + screen at less than a Logitech keyboard - I know, retail, scale, brand mark-up, two years later, etc ... but nonetheless?
Does the app smooth out some of the frustrations (f.e. the alt-tab problem) of working with Android with a keyboard & mouse as though it's a real grown-up DE? Is the app going to offer an increasingly customisable experience, or does it defer to the phone's native Android (and skins) features?
How does it feel - I know you're biased, but have you tried some phones that it just doesn't work on, and/or have some benchmarks or recommendations? I'm on an original Nexus 5 - which still performs adequately, but with low expectations on a phone interface - how well would it drive the Superbook?
Yea totally - trust me when I first started on this, I had a lot of the same question.
Keyboard: Think of the keyboard of your standard Chromebook. That's the keyboard. We have to use off the shelf, component parts that are fairly common in order to keep costs low.
Screen: Basic screen is a TN 768p. It's not fantastic, but at a 11.6" screen size, it's fine. For an extra $30, you can get the IPS 1080p upgrade. They're pretty solid.
Keyboard / Mouse / Alt-Tab frustration: Yep. Our software mainly spends a lot of time making the experience of using keyboard and mouse decent. We do take on a number of the phone's native features, but desktop experience optimization is why we built our app - it's the missing software link. For those of you with tablets and usb mouse / keyboard that want to give it a try, test out the beta: play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.andromium.os&hl=en
Phones that don't work: Yea, definitely lower end phones, phones with <2GB RAM run a little rough. There are still a bunch of software features to add / fix / optimize. It still has a bit to go before we hit full desktop parity. We see this as a software problem that we just need to spend a bunch of time on.
Are there plans to bring the Superbook to retail later at a similar price point (or even just selling off your website)?
I'm tempted to back this but I'm in the middle of a move and some personal expenses so I'm trying to be good and conserve money right now, so it'd be nice to know that the Kickstarter won't be the only opportunity in the next year or two to get this.
Hi I love the superbook. However I totally feel like calling 11.6" a "Large screen" is a stretch. Is there any plan to bring an actually middle-sized screen such as 13.3"? If there was a 13.3" 1080p screen I'd buy it right now.
PS, would love that it was backlit, that is literally the only complain I have with my Asus UX305CA
Yep, it's marketing - can't deny that. You wouldn't believe how easy it is to fail at Kickstarter and how important preparation and good marketing is.
Yes, we've gotten a ton of good feedback that people are willing to pay for a premium version. If we hit the 2.5M stretch goal, backlit will be a possibility :). We like it, but we also did a survey of our backers that said ~50% would pay for it.
We're definitely considering 13" for our next version. But we want to deliver this version out first. 13" would require us to design a new shell and also source a few more components, including new packaging. Gets a lot tricker.
You mention that you can write code on the Superbook, but I've yet to find any good ide in Android. Any plans to create or partner with someone to get something like Atom running in Andromium/Android? Do you have a particular favorite that you always use right now?
If you're a terminal person, definitely check out Termux[1], it's really, really good (Android 5+ only, however). For a text editor, I really enjoy Quickedit[2]. But I'm not aware of any decent quality IDEs, either. Personally, I'm really hoping Blackberry knocks it out of the park at some point with an Android phone with PKB. I do a lot of traveling, and Termux (with ssh, vim, go, tmux, fish, etc.) would handle 99% of my computing needs if I had a good keyboard. (But I'm not willing to get a phone without a removable battery, and I don't see BB going back to that anytime soon.)
YES! We want to. Please reach out to us Atom guys. We're working with some friends working on a cloud IDE, but this is an area where we admit theres a gap in software. We intend to close this gap.
We see coding as a key use case for our product. The current IDEs for Android are ok, but we can make it better with partners and potentially some good Cloud IDEs. Still not there though
I hope you stay focussed on the low end of the market and don't get bogged down by demands of developers since they are likely to be different from everybody else.
A few items that would make me buy two $200+ versions of this:
Video extension for multiple monitors. For example the ability to plug my phone into a dual monitor setup for coding.
A 13" primary monitor.
Touchscreen on the primary monitor for those annoying times when you forget it's not touchscreen.
USB ports on the device so I can plug in a wireless mouse and keyboard.
Standard Linux OS virtual machine or rooted a la chromebooks.
Then I would carry my phone between home and work and plug it in both places. No more need to carry a laptop. You could pick one of them up and take it with you for travel. That would be beautiful.
I currently tote my 13" laptop around and plug in an extra monitor and wireless usb mouse/keyboard at the endpoints.
Cool! Have you considered embedding a Raspberry Pi Zero so the Superbook can get on the web when there's not a phone attached? I know that's like reinventing the Chromebook, but the CPU and memory are so cheap...
It is really cool, but for our vision, it is just a neat feature. We want to empower device convergence, so that Android smartphone can be leveraged as laptops for learning and productivity use :)
Another question, how does it all work internally? Is it just an USB Hub? Would I be able, for example, to connect my main Laptop to the Superbook and use it as another screen+keyboard+mouse?
How well does it work without Andromium? For instance:
Can I enter directly to the phone with the keyboard? Does the phone screen show on the large screen without Andromium? Is the large screen a touch screen?
Even more important -- if I have a rooted/virtual machine instance of a standard Linux distro running on my smartphone, can I use that? Do I have to use Andromium if I have a setup like a rooted chromebook? Turning the smartphone into a laptop it seems the biggest limitation would then be the app store. I don't want it to "feel" like a computer. I want it to be a computer -- OS and all.
One final question. What is your privacy policy, open vs closed source and permission requirements for Andromium and why?
This is a great idea, but I am raising a serious eyebrow at the Andromium aspect of it.
There a ton of permissions we ask for in order to make the experience smooth. To be honest, we've been focusing less on privacy and more on just making a solid desktop experience. We can definitely be more intentional in our permissions as we mature as a startup.
I'm curious about how the Superbook is charged. It seems you're shipping a custom charger, but also somewhere on the Kickstarter it talks about micro-USB. So, would a regular USB charger be able to charge the Superbook, or does it only work with your own charging brick?
Great question. The Superbook is charged using a standard micro-b cord. A regular charger works fine. To charge the phone however is a little complex. We have a custom USB-OTG cord for that. The reason is because we need to send data one way and power the other.
Any chance that the Superbook could be charged over USB-C instead? I'm trying (with middling success) to avoid purchasing any devices with other charging ports at this point.
Totally - I think we'll do this if we can, but there are some certification challenges w/Type C if you ONLY use it as a charging port. At least that's what we've heard - would welcome anyone who'd know more about this from a hardware mfg standpoint
I'm kind of in the same boat. Basically everything I use is USB-C now, except for my e-cigarette. For that I carry a USB-C to micro-USB cable, so I can use the same charger and battery pack for everything.
Real talk on limitations: really intensive apps will be hard to run in Andromium. Also, phones with <2GB RAM will run into latency issues. Most apps will currently run in full screen mode, with only those with our SDK included having resizing / multi-window capabilities.
None at all! Although we've gotten in touch with the founder, who is a super nice guy. He mentioned about the challenges of software - near impossible on iOS.
And actually of all of the various attempts at this, the primary failure was that the software experience was so poor. We've been working on the software side (Andromium) for over 1.5 years, with a bunch of feedback from a pretty awesome community :)
Wouldn't have been possible to put a slot inside the keyboard dock where you could insert your phone and close it inside?
Not an Ubuntu touch expert, but would it be compatible? Just plugging it in and have what ubuntu want to reach? a complete linux distro on the go?
If not, are you able to support it?
You could, buuuut Android phones are so fragmented that it would be really really hard to do it for every phone and have it be aesthetically pleasing. That's why we opted for the universal side mount option.
By the way, the one thing I will say if you want to use your Android phone as a laptop is that there's a major difference in using USB vs. using casting. Aside from the latency issues of casting, you can only send video screens in casting -- and you have to buy the casting device. Android devices typically don't have a video out, so outside of using USB / DisplayLink, the experience is really poor.
That's cool! We're big fans, and Nexdock is great for Windows mobile phones. We are not compatible with Windows mobile phones at all.
The slot is interesting, but makes it hard to fit with every phone. One of the biggest challenges of Android is the fragmentation across devices, OSes, and experiences. We wanted to make this accessible to ALL Android devices, so that's why we opted for the side mount option instead.
Yes totally for 3D games. We see the Superbook as more of a productivity tool. You would most likely still play your games on your phone. But for video watching, no. There's virtually no lag. See our Surface demo to get a sense of how well it works: https://vimeo.com/176370847
Btw because we use DisplayLink, you can also use the Superbook as a secondary monitor / keyboard / mouse for windows tablet,s laptops, and PC sticks.
Great question - and spot on in your assessment. The answer right now is not always on 1080p at 60Hz depending on what's happening on the phone, but generally not noticeable to the user.
Is a solution technically possible where the phone is connected to a normal desktop/laptop via USB, and I could extend in to the phone via a semi-full screen portal?
What limitations are there that are preventing this from happening?
In that configuration the computer is the host and the phone is the 'device'. You'd have to either install some kind of remote viewer on the phone (e.g. Chromecast), or reverse the host relationship and put something like the DisplayLink chip in the middle.
I don't know if this feature is on the roadmap, but touchscreen would be cool (and probably super hard to implement) because of how much of the mobile experience is geared towards that.
100% possible and in the roadmap for v2. We couldn't add it to this version and keep it at $99, but trust me - I've touched the screen more than a few times.
Remix is unabashedly better of a user experience right now. It has to be. They rewrote Android to be a desktop OS - you can't get more integrated than that. However, two things:
1) they had to break Android, which means no more access to Google services, including the play store.
2) you have to install Remix OS, getting rid of your Android Os. Which wouldn't work on a phone. So you still have to stick with multiple devices.
Totally. We will absolutely love to get as pretty and as functional as Remix, with just downloading an app. I think that's the key - it needs to live on the phone and it can't require installing a new OS.
Right now, landscape mode versions of the phone apps. Part of the work we need to do as a company is to build out our developer ecosystem, so companies can allow the Tablet versions of their apps to show in multi-window mode when plugged into the Superbook.
Is that just the lack of a compatible DisplayLink driver? Would it be possible to support HDMI in (without HDCP)? Is that a limitation of the DL chip since there are USB monitors that support HDMI in as well.
Also, on Reddit it was mentioned that you have a headphone jack, does this involve a codec and pre-amp hardware? Does this increase the price or complexity?
We could at some point, but our goal isn't to support windows. Our belief is that device convergence will happen and Android phones will lead the way.
We don't have a headphone jack! Sorry if there was any misinformation / if I messed up there. Lots of chefs were in that particular AMA kitchen. This one: just me.
Yea. Andromium (our App) makes Android function like a familiar desktop OS, and gives apps with our SDK some additional capabilities (resizing, multitasking, etc.). Every other app simply opens up in full size mode, so you can still use all of your regular Android apps. Check out the beta: play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.andromium.os&hl=en
Airdroid is for your laptop to have access to Android apps. We're big proponents of device convergence, that our smartphones are so important and powerful now that we don't need to maintain multiple computing devices. Consider how often you upgrade your phone and how much of your life / data / files / apps are on it. For most people, 90% of their computing needs happen on the smartphone. The remaining 10% of the time is spent mainly on things like browsing, writing long documents etc - things that are simply made better by a larger screen and laptop form factor.
The benefit of having everything on one computer is that you don't need to sync files and constantly upgrade multiple devices. You get to stay in one computing ecosystem.
Btw for $99, we hope in a lot of mobile-first economies it'll replace the need to buy a laptop. Most people in those economies are Android users, familiar with Android apps - and we can extend the OS they're already familiar with to the laptop environment.