Hacker News new | comments | show | ask | jobs | submit login
We're Andromium. Making the Superbook, a $99 Android Laptop Shell. AMA
91 points by ajiang 4 hours ago | hide | past | web | 90 comments | favorite
Hey HN!

There have been a couple HN posts that others have posted about our Kickstarter for the Superbook, our shell that turns any Android phone into a laptop for $99. We didn't see them until fairly late, so wanted to do an AMA, answering questions about the technology, its applications, our production schedule, manufacturing costs (how we can price it so low), or just anything else in general.

Also wanted to put out an open offer to stop by our offices on 5th and Mission and play with the current working prototype (bring your Android phone too!). Just email me at andrew@andromiumos.com.

Kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/andromium/the-superbook-turn-your-smartphone-into-a-laptop-f






I'm serious about the offer to visit our office. We know Kickstarters have a bad rap for vaporware that takes forever to deliver. You can visit and play with our working prototype. You can try our software beta on your Android phone. And if you're in Shenzhen next week, you and I can kick it at one of the CMs we're looking at (currently in Shanghai myself).

I have a bunch of possibly naive questions.

I have an Android tablet (Samsung Tab Pro - the 12" beast). An experiment at replacing a laptop on some outings. I bought the A$140 Logitech keyboard / cover, which is good but not great, with some keys being a bit recalcitrant.

Some UI features are frustrating (example: alt-tab brings up the alt-tab switcher - you need to alt-tab twice to move to the most recent process, and toggling between two or three apps on the top of the stack is a common use case for me if I'm trying to do Real Work). An Android problem, I concede.

Given that context - how good is the keyboard, and how are you shipping keyboard + screen at less than a Logitech keyboard - I know, retail, scale, brand mark-up, two years later, etc ... but nonetheless?

Does the app smooth out some of the frustrations (f.e. the alt-tab problem) of working with Android with a keyboard & mouse as though it's a real grown-up DE? Is the app going to offer an increasingly customisable experience, or does it defer to the phone's native Android (and skins) features?

How does it feel - I know you're biased, but have you tried some phones that it just doesn't work on, and/or have some benchmarks or recommendations? I'm on an original Nexus 5 - which still performs adequately, but with low expectations on a phone interface - how well would it drive the Superbook?


Yea totally - trust me when I first started on this, I had a lot of the same question.

Keyboard: Think of the keyboard of your standard Chromebook. That's the keyboard. We have to use off the shelf, component parts that are fairly common in order to keep costs low.

Screen: Basic screen is a TN 768p. It's not fantastic, but at a 11.6" screen size, it's fine. For an extra $30, you can get the IPS 1080p upgrade. They're pretty solid.

Keyboard / Mouse / Alt-Tab frustration: Yep. Our software mainly spends a lot of time making the experience of using keyboard and mouse decent. We do take on a number of the phone's native features, but desktop experience optimization is why we built our app - it's the missing software link. For those of you with tablets and usb mouse / keyboard that want to give it a try, test out the beta: play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.andromium.os&hl=en

Phones that don't work: Yea, definitely lower end phones, phones with <2GB RAM run a little rough. There are still a bunch of software features to add / fix / optimize. It still has a bit to go before we hit full desktop parity. We see this as a software problem that we just need to spend a bunch of time on.


Are there plans to bring the Superbook to retail later at a similar price point (or even just selling off your website)?

I'm tempted to back this but I'm in the middle of a move and some personal expenses so I'm trying to be good and conserve money right now, so it'd be nice to know that the Kickstarter won't be the only opportunity in the next year or two to get this.


Please don't worry about it! We intend on having it up for pre-sale + online purchase.

Hi I love the superbook. However I totally feel like calling 11.6" a "Large screen" is a stretch. Is there any plan to bring an actually middle-sized screen such as 13.3"? If there was a 13.3" 1080p screen I'd buy it right now.

PS, would love that it was backlit, that is literally the only complain I have with my Asus UX305CA


Yep, it's marketing - can't deny that. You wouldn't believe how easy it is to fail at Kickstarter and how important preparation and good marketing is.

Yes, we've gotten a ton of good feedback that people are willing to pay for a premium version. If we hit the 2.5M stretch goal, backlit will be a possibility :). We like it, but we also did a survey of our backers that said ~50% would pay for it.


By premium you mean backlight, right? 13" is not an option so far?

We're definitely considering 13" for our next version. But we want to deliver this version out first. 13" would require us to design a new shell and also source a few more components, including new packaging. Gets a lot tricker.

You mention that you can write code on the Superbook, but I've yet to find any good ide in Android. Any plans to create or partner with someone to get something like Atom running in Andromium/Android? Do you have a particular favorite that you always use right now?

If you're a terminal person, definitely check out Termux[1], it's really, really good (Android 5+ only, however). For a text editor, I really enjoy Quickedit[2]. But I'm not aware of any decent quality IDEs, either. Personally, I'm really hoping Blackberry knocks it out of the park at some point with an Android phone with PKB. I do a lot of traveling, and Termux (with ssh, vim, go, tmux, fish, etc.) would handle 99% of my computing needs if I had a good keyboard. (But I'm not willing to get a phone without a removable battery, and I don't see BB going back to that anytime soon.)

[1] https://github.com/termux/termux-app [2] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.rhmsoft.ed...


Generally agreed.

YES! We want to. Please reach out to us Atom guys. We're working with some friends working on a cloud IDE, but this is an area where we admit theres a gap in software. We intend to close this gap.

I suppose that makes sense. With a 10000 mAh battery you should be able to run atom for an hour or two.

I'm also interested in this. Do anyone knows how something like eclipse che would work in this?

Do you think this will be a viable alternative for coding while traveling and dont have a laptop?


We see coding as a key use case for our product. The current IDEs for Android are ok, but we can make it better with partners and potentially some good Cloud IDEs. Still not there though

I hope you stay focussed on the low end of the market and don't get bogged down by demands of developers since they are likely to be different from everybody else.

Not an IDE, but you should really check out Termux.

A few items that would make me buy two $200+ versions of this:

Video extension for multiple monitors. For example the ability to plug my phone into a dual monitor setup for coding.

A 13" primary monitor.

Touchscreen on the primary monitor for those annoying times when you forget it's not touchscreen.

USB ports on the device so I can plug in a wireless mouse and keyboard.

Standard Linux OS virtual machine or rooted a la chromebooks.

Then I would carry my phone between home and work and plug it in both places. No more need to carry a laptop. You could pick one of them up and take it with you for travel. That would be beautiful.

I currently tote my 13" laptop around and plug in an extra monitor and wireless usb mouse/keyboard at the endpoints.


Is it plausible that this could work with a raspberry pi?

Or hell, even as a tty/dumb terminal for a random linux box?


Haha..keep it a secret: http://imgur.com/PViKxMD

Actually have only sneaked this to our commenters. Will do an update to everyone soon...


Cool! Have you considered embedding a Raspberry Pi Zero so the Superbook can get on the web when there's not a phone attached? I know that's like reinventing the Chromebook, but the CPU and memory are so cheap...

It is really cool, but for our vision, it is just a neat feature. We want to empower device convergence, so that Android smartphone can be leveraged as laptops for learning and productivity use :)

I'm interested in the second one? Is there any way to run code on the DisplayLink-like chip? Would a dedicated CPU module with 2G+ ram be an option?

Likely not for our product. Our focus is bringing device convergence to Android smartphones - everything else to be honest is kind of a nice to have

Another question, how does it all work internally? Is it just an USB Hub? Would I be able, for example, to connect my main Laptop to the Superbook and use it as another screen+keyboard+mouse?

USB hub + a display link chip + power circuitry. Yes you can!

Check it out:

Surface + Superbook: https://vimeo.com/176370847/ddd187ceab Mac + Superbook: http://imgur.com/a/oZwwN PC Stick + Superbook: http://imgur.com/a/eTbtm


I really want to try it then in pair programming or while teaching programming to someone. Looking forward for the 13" version, thanks!

YES we really want that to happen.

How well does it work without Andromium? For instance:

Can I enter directly to the phone with the keyboard? Does the phone screen show on the large screen without Andromium? Is the large screen a touch screen?

Even more important -- if I have a rooted/virtual machine instance of a standard Linux distro running on my smartphone, can I use that? Do I have to use Andromium if I have a setup like a rooted chromebook? Turning the smartphone into a laptop it seems the biggest limitation would then be the app store. I don't want it to "feel" like a computer. I want it to be a computer -- OS and all.

One final question. What is your privacy policy, open vs closed source and permission requirements for Andromium and why?

This is a great idea, but I am raising a serious eyebrow at the Andromium aspect of it.


It works fine without Andromium, but it is just a larger version of your phone screen.

The answer is Yes. As long as the device you're working on as a displaylink driver, you can use it. In fact:

Superbook + Surface tablet: https://vimeo.com/176370847 Superbook + Mac: http://imgur.com/a/oZwwN Superbook + PC Stick: http://imgur.com/a/eTbtm


Is it a DisplayLink 3? There doesn't seem to be an open driver for that due to hardware copy protection features.

4 series :)

Final question: Closed source right now. Having spoken to some early Mozilla employees, considering open source.

Full list of permissions can be found on the app page: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.andromium....

There a ton of permissions we ask for in order to make the experience smooth. To be honest, we've been focusing less on privacy and more on just making a solid desktop experience. We can definitely be more intentional in our permissions as we mature as a startup.


I'm curious about how the Superbook is charged. It seems you're shipping a custom charger, but also somewhere on the Kickstarter it talks about micro-USB. So, would a regular USB charger be able to charge the Superbook, or does it only work with your own charging brick?

Great question. The Superbook is charged using a standard micro-b cord. A regular charger works fine. To charge the phone however is a little complex. We have a custom USB-OTG cord for that. The reason is because we need to send data one way and power the other.

Any chance that the Superbook could be charged over USB-C instead? I'm trying (with middling success) to avoid purchasing any devices with other charging ports at this point.

Totally - I think we'll do this if we can, but there are some certification challenges w/Type C if you ONLY use it as a charging port. At least that's what we've heard - would welcome anyone who'd know more about this from a hardware mfg standpoint

I'm kind of in the same boat. Basically everything I use is USB-C now, except for my e-cigarette. For that I carry a USB-C to micro-USB cable, so I can use the same charger and battery pack for everything.

Real talk on limitations: really intensive apps will be hard to run in Andromium. Also, phones with <2GB RAM will run into latency issues. Most apps will currently run in full screen mode, with only those with our SDK included having resizing / multi-window capabilities.

What about the multi-window support coming in Android Nougat, will that enable more out of the box functionality?

YES! And also more apps that have tablet mode either built in or capable of being included.

I remember a while back there was the similar ClamCase Clambook[1] (all manufacturer links now non-existent). It never shipped. Any relation to that project? 1 - http://www.zdnet.com/article/clambook-turn-your-smartphone-i...

None at all! Although we've gotten in touch with the founder, who is a super nice guy. He mentioned about the challenges of software - near impossible on iOS.

And actually of all of the various attempts at this, the primary failure was that the software experience was so poor. We've been working on the software side (Andromium) for over 1.5 years, with a bunch of feedback from a pretty awesome community :)


There was also Motorola Atrix and one can get that laptop/shell for $75 on eBay. I wonder if their app works with it.

Haha yes! But when it came out, the laptop shell was $500-$600. Unsupported hardware has a tendency to get cheap ;)

Wouldn't have been possible to put a slot inside the keyboard dock where you could insert your phone and close it inside?

Not an Ubuntu touch expert, but would it be compatible? Just plugging it in and have what ubuntu want to reach? a complete linux distro on the go? If not, are you able to support it?


You could, buuuut Android phones are so fragmented that it would be really really hard to do it for every phone and have it be aesthetically pleasing. That's why we opted for the universal side mount option.

Already bought the Nexdock..

I would really like to see a slot for the phone, like the old Asus Tablet where you could insert a telephone in the back.


By the way, the one thing I will say if you want to use your Android phone as a laptop is that there's a major difference in using USB vs. using casting. Aside from the latency issues of casting, you can only send video screens in casting -- and you have to buy the casting device. Android devices typically don't have a video out, so outside of using USB / DisplayLink, the experience is really poor.

That's cool! We're big fans, and Nexdock is great for Windows mobile phones. We are not compatible with Windows mobile phones at all.

The slot is interesting, but makes it hard to fit with every phone. One of the biggest challenges of Android is the fragmentation across devices, OSes, and experiences. We wanted to make this accessible to ALL Android devices, so that's why we opted for the side mount option instead.


What marketing did you do prior to launching the Kickstarter? Did you use paid ads to build an email list?

Everything we did that mattered, I actually detailed out in a piece for Startup Grind: https://www.startupgrind.com/blog/how-we-blew-past-our-crowd...

Great article. Did you use an outside marketing consultant or do all this yourself?

A few technical questions also covered in our AMA on Reddit a couple weeks back: https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/4ty163/were_androm...

Also XDA did a little bit of a technical dive into our product: http://www.xda-developers.com/andromiums-99-superbook-conver...

Particularly relevant is the portions on the use of the DisplayLink 4xxx chipset, USB-OTG, and battery size


Does my phone needs to have MHL (Mobile High-Definition Link) to be able to connect it? or how does it work via USB?

No MHL needed. We use a DisplayLink 4xxx series chip that converts video data over USB. Works with Lollipop and above.

See: http://www.displaylink.com/downloads/android


It's also why we can work with almost any modern android device. Only USB-OTG support is needed.

Doesn't that mean that there are serious limitations when it comes to 3d games or video watching on the bigger screen ?

Yes totally for 3D games. We see the Superbook as more of a productivity tool. You would most likely still play your games on your phone. But for video watching, no. There's virtually no lag. See our Surface demo to get a sense of how well it works: https://vimeo.com/176370847

Btw because we use DisplayLink, you can also use the Superbook as a secondary monitor / keyboard / mouse for windows tablet,s laptops, and PC sticks.


How's performance with this approach? Can it push the 1080p display at 60Hz?

Great question - and spot on in your assessment. The answer right now is not always on 1080p at 60Hz depending on what's happening on the phone, but generally not noticeable to the user.

On a more theoretical question:

Is a solution technically possible where the phone is connected to a normal desktop/laptop via USB, and I could extend in to the phone via a semi-full screen portal?

What limitations are there that are preventing this from happening?


In that configuration the computer is the host and the phone is the 'device'. You'd have to either install some kind of remote viewer on the phone (e.g. Chromecast), or reverse the host relationship and put something like the DisplayLink chip in the middle.

Yep - spot on

I don't know if this feature is on the roadmap, but touchscreen would be cool (and probably super hard to implement) because of how much of the mobile experience is geared towards that.

100% possible and in the roadmap for v2. We couldn't add it to this version and keep it at $99, but trust me - I've touched the screen more than a few times.

How does this compare to the user experience on Remix OS?

Remix is unabashedly better of a user experience right now. It has to be. They rewrote Android to be a desktop OS - you can't get more integrated than that. However, two things: 1) they had to break Android, which means no more access to Google services, including the play store. 2) you have to install Remix OS, getting rid of your Android Os. Which wouldn't work on a phone. So you still have to stick with multiple devices.

Apparently one can still get to the google play store [1], similar to Cyanogenmod missing Play Store out of the box.

Is there inspiration or parts you can share with Remix?

[1]: http://liliputing.com/2016/01/remix-os-for-pc-how-to-install...


Totally. We will absolutely love to get as pretty and as functional as Remix, with just downloading an app. I think that's the key - it needs to live on the phone and it can't require installing a new OS.

Do I have to run Andromium to use it or can I also use my current setup and have it simply mirror my display with keyboard/mouse?

You don't need to, but the mirror of your smartphone display sometimes ends up being a fully portrait screen - not the best experience.

How do regular apps like Facebook, Snapchat, Instagram, Twitter etc. look like on the device. Are they stretched out versions of the Phone apps?

Right now, landscape mode versions of the phone apps. Part of the work we need to do as a company is to build out our developer ecosystem, so companies can allow the Tablet versions of their apps to show in multi-window mode when plugged into the Superbook.

Works well with Termux (especially with Emacs)?

Yea it works with Termux just fine. We're working on getting a better solution for programming though :)

How much are you anticipating this will cost after launch?

Current plan is to launch at $129 post-Kickstarter

Hey - I'm thinking about pulling the trigger - but I have one question - does it work with Continuum?

Haha don't pull the trigger! It doesn't work with Continuum. Windows mobile is hard to support -_-

Is that just the lack of a compatible DisplayLink driver? Would it be possible to support HDMI in (without HDCP)? Is that a limitation of the DL chip since there are USB monitors that support HDMI in as well.

Also, on Reddit it was mentioned that you have a headphone jack, does this involve a codec and pre-amp hardware? Does this increase the price or complexity?


Yep - that's exactly right.

We could at some point, but our goal isn't to support windows. Our belief is that device convergence will happen and Android phones will lead the way.

We don't have a headphone jack! Sorry if there was any misinformation / if I messed up there. Lots of chefs were in that particular AMA kitchen. This one: just me.


How really does this work? I plug in my android 5+ smartphone, and I can access my apps on it?

Yea. Andromium (our App) makes Android function like a familiar desktop OS, and gives apps with our SDK some additional capabilities (resizing, multitasking, etc.). Every other app simply opens up in full size mode, so you can still use all of your regular Android apps. Check out the beta: play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.andromium.os&hl=en

How is this different than airdroid?

Airdroid is for your laptop to have access to Android apps. We're big proponents of device convergence, that our smartphones are so important and powerful now that we don't need to maintain multiple computing devices. Consider how often you upgrade your phone and how much of your life / data / files / apps are on it. For most people, 90% of their computing needs happen on the smartphone. The remaining 10% of the time is spent mainly on things like browsing, writing long documents etc - things that are simply made better by a larger screen and laptop form factor.

The benefit of having everything on one computer is that you don't need to sync files and constantly upgrade multiple devices. You get to stay in one computing ecosystem.


Btw for $99, we hope in a lot of mobile-first economies it'll replace the need to buy a laptop. Most people in those economies are Android users, familiar with Android apps - and we can extend the OS they're already familiar with to the laptop environment.

Love how the website in the demo is theverge.com. That pretty much convinced me it's good hardware.



Guidelines | FAQ | Support | API | Security | Lists | Bookmarklet | DMCA | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: