27
28

Discussion[Discussion] What does the apparent lack of ex-redpillers tell us about TRP's accuracy? (self.PurplePillDebate)

GoingSolow が 投稿

For this post I'm going to define "blue piller" as "anyone programmed by bluepill thinking". Bluepill thinking is "the accepted/taught norm of gender relations".

If you live in the western world, it's increasingly likely you grew up bluepill. This happens primarily through public education, children's and teenager's TV shows, and most importantly movies. I'm almost certain a lot of the most viewed movies of the past few years are very subtle propaganda pieces used to programme teenagers from a young age. Think about how many times you've seen Mean Girls or Superbad or Twilight while growing up, especially if you were a girl at sleepovers. Films like Legally Blonde and Pitch Perfect, all subtle (or not so subtle once you've come to notice it) bluepill programming that teenage girls and boys all eventually watch if they are part of the crowd, these movies can be good en entertaining in their own respects, and still very bluepill. I think the majority of bluepill programming comes from our media. Think about how popular Friends was, or the Big Bang theory is (or was) today. We are taught to be bluepill from a young age, there are no other options presented to us. It's presented as normal in almost all media. We grow up learning to act and behave in the way we see the people on screen, because we're led to believe they are representations of the way "real" people behave.

When I first heard of TRP, I was told it was full of sexists and misogynists. I accepted that. I went over to the sub and I enjoyed the outrage porn for a while. I couldn't believe guys like this existed. I couldn't even believe Reddit would allow this kind of shit on their site

Eventually as I kept reading, it stopped being so ridiculous. I started to draw parallels to my own life, to experiences I had, to the way girls I knew behaved. It wasn't confirmation bias because I still didn't believe RP, it's just so much of what was said mirrored exactly what I'd experienced, but now it was presented in a new light. I was also impressed by how well written a lot of the posts and manosphere blogs were, if these were virgin teenage neckbeards, then they seemed like some pretty educated guys.

I slowly started to realise, hey, maybe some of the things these guys say are right... They're pretty spot on about some things.

Then "some of the things" became "most of the things" and then "almost all of the things". Before I knew it I was thinking about redpill theory all the time, accepting it, ranting to my friends about it, realising it was correct. I'd become a redpiller by accident, and only because I truly believed the things they were saying were correct. I wasn't forced into any of it, I hadn't really experienced too much trauma from women, I wasn't really that bitter about it all, it just made sense in a way such as I didn't need to force myself to believe it....

It took a lot of effort and mental willpower to disregard my previous, comfortable programming and convert over to red. I struggled with it for a while. "Does this mean I hate women?" "Am I a misogynist?", "What if people find out?". It was only after a long time did I realise that I wasn't a woman hater, but rather that's just what I would be called if I told people I didn't believe in their way of thinking. If I told my mom I wasn't religious she would call me stupid and an immoral person, I know (or hope) I'm not immoral and don't do bad things, but she would call me immoral nevertheless. I realised that bloopers will call me a misogynist for the same reason, they see anyone who doesn't subscribe to their worldview as women hating. That's what they've been taught.

I've found that the people who end up "converting" to TRP tend to be the smart ones who began to question authority. They questioned the programming, and they allowed themselves to be convinced otherwise through shared stories from other men, discussion and debate. They took both of these worldviews, weighed them up against each other, and chose red.

The guys who arrive and don't convert are too far gone. They aren't smart/willfull enough to question their programming/authority and they stay in their comfortable space. I'm of the opinion that BPers are the type of people who are easily indoctrinated/don't question what they've been told often. Optimists. Too trusting. It's a nice quality, but as we all know, people will take advantage of those qualities.

And the reconversion rate is low. I know of no Terpers who were red and then went back. There are a few posts by guys on TBP or some male subs, but there aren't many, at all. One would think that if TRP really was wrong and it fucked up the lives of the guys who believed it, and the people around them, you'd hear constant horror stories from ex-terpers or their loved ones. You would have people on the TRP or BP or PPD subreddits saying and posting things like "I am an ex terper and this shit DOES NOT work, it will mess you up".

There would be an (EDIT: active)"/r/extrp", there would be Bluepill ex terpers insisting from experience the dogma is bad, they would try with all their effort to make sure guys don't fall into the same fucked up trap. I'm sure there would be a few who would work to make sure young impressionable guys don't make the same mistakes.

But they don't. There are very few ex terpers. In fact the more redpill you become the more you stray away from the subreddit. Besides some oldies that work to keep the sub consistent, the turnover of posters is high. Betas arrive at the subreddit, they learnt shit, apply it, it works, and then they leave. Guys who managed to get their shit together don't need more self help, occasionally they post some advice or a "x year follow up", but they never stick around for too long. Alphas don't spend ALL their time on Internet forums.

And TRP doesn't keep people through cult like techniques either. They don't shame apostates or keep doubters scared and worried of retaliation. It's not Scientology. It's not cult-like because it's anonymous. A guy can get up and leave any time. A guy who's life got fucked by TRP can at any time turn around and make a "I tried this shit and it made my life WORSE" post on an opposing sub.

But there aren't many of them. At all. There are no outspoken "reformed" pillers. There are so few guys deserting that It lead me to believe that TRP really does work, it produces results in the way we want results. If TRP really was fucked up and bad for the health of everyone involved, where are all the people who were smart enough to pull out and tell everyone of their mistake? The only real RP haters are the ones who hate by default, before even trying to understand, before looking at the philosophy with a critical/open mind. That's like saying atheism is wrong because religious people hate it. The religious people aren't even being fair to the atheist way of thinking or taking it seriously, because they are so programmed in their own ways.

I implore all the ex terpers who hate the sub to come out and tell us your stories. I'd like to see how many of you there actually are. And the BPers, how many of you have actually sat and read through the top posts/side bar with a neutral mindset? I'm pretty sure a lot of you have convinced yourself a post/article is wrong/misogynist before you even read it. You read for the outrage porn and validation, not to actually question your beliefs. I'm sure many of you are still in that mindset even reading this. I used to do it too, but there's only so much... truth...you can read before you start to accept it.

Discuss. I'll try and reply to comments but new account means I'm limited in speed for a while.

TL:DR; the lack of apostate RPers disproves the idea that RP ruins and damages lives, in fact it strengthens the validity of RP philosophy.

EDIT:I think it may have been a mistake to mention media at the beginning of my post, as that may just result in people nitpicking my examples and ignoring the overall point. What I'm trying to get at with that explanation is that bluepill thinking is the default and it's taught to us at school and through the media. Nearly all westerners start off as bluepill. I may make a post about it that specific point another time but I don't think this is the place to expand further on this line of thinking. I don't want us to get too distracted through arguing about media that we end up not addressing the post in its entirety.

全 158 件のコメント
並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]dakruNeither [スコア非表示]  (41子コメント)

To start off, I don't think that things like popularity, user-base, number of converts, etc., work particularly well as evidence for or against social/political movements like this so although I'll discuss it, I don't put too much stock in it.

You say that most people who've converted to red stay as red, and that this is evidence in favour of red ideas. What about the likely fact that most people who are blue and who've heard of TRP haven't converted to being red? Is that evidence in favour of blue ideas too?

You seem to dismiss the people who stay as blue and don't convert to red as being "too far gone" or "not smart/willful enough":

The guys who arrive and don't convert are too far gone. They aren't smart/willfull enough to question their programming/authority and they stay in their comfortable space.

But isn't this a result of your own bias? You interpret the reds who stay as red as being evidence of the truth of red ideas, but you interpret the blues who stay as blue as just being "too far gone" or "not smart/willful enough". Isn't this is because you're approaching this from the perspective of believing in red ideas?

Someone who approaches this from the perspective of believing in blue ideas might see the opposite. They might say that the fact that most blues don't convert to red is evidence of blue ideas, and the fact that most reds don't convert to blue is just because they're "too far gone" or "not smart/willful enough".

Perhaps someone might say "it's different" because "TRP isn't a comfortable space; we wish the world wasn't like this!", but I'm not sure that's the case. I think that to some extent the "women are just awful awful people!" rhetoric is just a comfortable lie for a different type of person. It helps women become less intimidating, makes it easier to take rejection, etc.

Also, as a completely different point, you mention high turnover on the subreddit. How do you know that the people who drift away from the subreddit are staying consistent with the ideas?

[–]GoingSolow[S] [スコア非表示]  (39子コメント)

Thanks, best reply so far. You're right, there's no way for us to know how many people turn up to the TRP page, laugh it off and leave. BP subscriber numbers don't count because those are just the people who cared enough to work against TRP, but the average "these people are stupid" lurker just goes on their way.

The problem is though, just like the religion vs atheism analogy; we will never know if the people who are BP and read TRP reject because they think RP ideas are stupid and irrational, or because they are taught to reject these kind of ideas from the start. A fundamentalist Christian rejects evolution not because they have carefully thought it through and decided it's wrong or not based in evidence, but because they don't care for evidence, distrust the scientific process in general, and have been told since indoctrinasation that the opposing team is always wrong. We can never know why people who stumble upon TRP reject the ideas; it's either because they took time to weigh it all up and decided it was bullshit, or they automatically saw it was dogma from the other team and rejected before imploring too far. We can never know, all we can do is assume. I'm assumimg it's the latter, simply because to me, TRP theory is so straightforward and so truthful that it's hard to deny. It's like how I automatically assume anti-evolutionists are dumb. I've also been on both sides of the fence, I've been blue and I fully understand blue philosophy, I needed to in order for the internal debate in my head to take place. I don't think people who reject TRP fully understand TRP philosophy, because once again, once you understand it, it becomes hard to deny.

And for your last point, that's true too. It's entirely likely guys who were red before left and stopped being red. Is also possible that the people who's lives were ruined by TRP left the club and decided not to warn others of it, or just decided not to be involved in the discussion at all anymore. These are also things we will also never know. We can only work with what we've got.

[–]Entropy-7 [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

I think the point is that every TRPer has tried applying blue pill in their life and found it wanting while the vast majority of bloopers will not apply red pill techniques to see if they work because they dismiss them out of hand.

Or you get someone like me who has many years of figuring things out for himself and when stumbling upon TRP finds that it accords with their experiences and observations. No one stumbles on being blue pill any more than fish "stumble" on water: it is pervasive.

[–]BiggerDthanYouI'm cute :3 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

the vast majority of bloopers will not apply red pill techniques to see if they work because they dismiss them out of hand

That's based on the assumption that members of TBP are just as clueless about sex and relationships as the people that come to TRP in the first place.

I myself was a testosterone fueled, possessive and jealous teenager myself and learned first hand that using TRP tactics will attract AWALTy women, that it is damaging for already healthy relationships and that it ruins already breaking ones.

Lots of the things that TRP promotes are red flags to a lot of women.

[–]tallwheelManosphere Unificationist [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That's based on the assumption that members of TBP are just as clueless about sex and relationships as the people that come to TRP in the first place.

And that's based on the assumption that people who come to TRP are more clueless about relationships than people who come to TBP. Don't those people go to TRP precisely because they tried all the BP advice, and it didn't work for them?

Saying all the advice one needs to attract women is obtainable in the BP world, and that no one should need TRP is equivalent to saying one should "just get it".

I myself was a testosterone fueled, possessive and jealous teenager myself and learned first hand that using TRP tactics will attract AWALTy women

I get the impression that you learned some of the things TRP teaches naturally. You were a bit of a natural alpha. And now you prefer BP's sugar-coated version of the truth - the pill that doesn't bother to actually teach you anything useful beyond "Dress well. Be fit. Be interesting. Respect women. Don't be a jerk." You know yourself that this isn't actually all the advice that is needed. Some understanding of psychology and intersexual interaction is necessary. Don't you have any sympathy for those who did not understand these things naturally like you did?

[–]Entropy-7 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I myself was a testosterone fueled, possessive and jealous teenager myself and learned first hand that using TRP tactics will attract AWALTy women, that it is damaging for already healthy relationships and that it ruins already breaking ones.

Probably not the best reference anymore than some incel blooper who turns to the red pill.

[–]StickItInTheToilet [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You sound like some of my male friends. They had some shocker relationships before they woke up. All married to great women now.

You're totally right about the red flags of trp. (Except that the OP is now claiming that terpers adapt themselves to individual women. Holy twist-of-red-pill-theory batman!)

[–]BomYeoreum [スコア非表示]  (32子コメント)

TRP theory is so straightforward and so truthful that it's hard to deny.

It's like how I automatically assume anti-evolutionists are dumb

I don't think people who reject TRP fully understand TRP philosophy, because once again, once you understand it, it becomes hard to deny.

You sound like every single person who ever was really into a religion, ideology, or political party etc. Your opinion is the truth and only your side is capable of critical thinking. The other side just don't get it man.

Every group ever Muslims, Trump supporters, Libertarians, Socialists Feminists, MRAs, GamerGaters, Religious fundamentalists, My little Pony fans can say the exact same thing. Only they understand how things REALLY are and they see the truth that others can't.

There's so many /r/the_donald subscribers, where's the ex Trump supporter group? Clearly, this means Donald Trump's positions are the truth and accurate. Where's the ex Bernie Sanders group? Do you see the flaw in this logic? Do you see how confirmation bias works?

TRP is rejected and ignored by most people, as it appeals to a certain type of demographic such as those who hold conservative views on gender relations. If you're young inexperienced or frustrated guy, then TRP might be appealing to you. Honestly, many of these guys couldn't figure out that working out was important by themselves. Many of them were so bland or socially clueless that emulating generic PUA personality is going to be an improvement for them.

Only thing you've demonstrated is that TRP is really popular among reddit demographics and that you deeply agree with it. That redpill works with redpillers doesn't make it objective truth for everyone else.

[–]GoingSolow[S] [スコア非表示]  (29子コメント)

Being a trump supporter is not a way of life or personal philosophy for living. It won't affect you or change your life like TRP does.

And yes I understand that concept. We all do. You in fact are doing the same thing, you believe that your way of thinking is the real truthTM and that pillers are just misguided or stupid. It's a natural human position. The only real way we can budge from our positions is to be shown they are wrong through experience, even arguing with facts doesn't really work (otherwise there would be no anti-vaccers).

Until I see from experience that TRP is wrong it's unlikely I will be budging, and you're the same. We won't convince you with words on the Internet (a lot of terpers try and give up), you will only be convinced once you experience it for yourself in your life.

[–]sen--senfirst of her name, non-red queen of the mythical slut-beasts [スコア非表示]  (12子コメント)

Until I see from experience that TRP is wrong it's unlikely I will be budging

then what is the point of even talking about it? you've essentially said "no matter what anyone tells me, anytime, my mind won't be changed."

so even if someone gave you the answer to this, it wouldn't matter.

[–]GoingSolow[S] [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

It's an honest admission, because it is true for ALL people. I'm just not going to hide it or pretend otherwise. It is true for you too, and everyone else in this sub. No one is ever convinced by words, you need to show them through your actions (48 Laws of Power).

[–]sen--senfirst of her name, non-red queen of the mythical slut-beasts [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

i'm not asking you to hide it or whatever weird shit you're making up; just pointing out that there's no point in a discussion if you've already decided the outcome regardless of what takes place in the discussion.

[–]GroovyEFS[X A N A X] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

All he is really saying is that his beliefs are influenced more by real life experiences than abstract internet arguments. This is in fact true for pretty much everyone on all sides here, and that's hardly a bad thing.

[–]citrusdrink76LITERALLY CAN'T EVEN [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

It is true for you too, and everyone else in this sub.

No it isn't. This:

no matter what anyone tells me, anytime, my mind won't be changed.

is only true for dummies.

[–]GoingSolow[S] [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I am a dummy, and I won't convince you of my positon by saying or typing anything.

In fact, everyone that disagrees with you is a dummy. They won't convince you with facts, figures, their own personal stories, or any kind of rational argument. We've tried.

So yes,

It is true for you too, and everyone else in this sub.

[–]citrusdrink76LITERALLY CAN'T EVEN [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

You're doing that thing where you talk to a stranger and assume that the ways you think are the ways they think. I would say I'm interested that an internet rando knows my mind but I've gotten used to it from hanging out here too much.

[–]Bekazzled [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's the same thing: "You're saying this to me. No, that's what you think/say. It is."

[–]Bekazzled [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The 48 Laws of Power are not only contradictory, they're frightening.

I've seen an RPer express the same thought.

[–]orcscorper [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

It's a discussion, not a CMV. So you aren't going to change OP's view; you can still discuss.

[–]tallwheelManosphere Unificationist [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Well, the tagline of the sub is "Question what you believe", so it could be argued that the whole point of this sub is to have one's mind changed... even when the post isn't tagged as a CMV.

[–]orcscorper [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Now you're just picking nits. Whether or not OP will ever change his mind on this point is irrelevant to the debate. He posed his theory, and maybe the arguments that follow will change someone's mind.

[–]Bekazzled [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yep. At least keeping one's mind part-open.

[–]BomYeoreum [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

that pillers are just misguided or stupid

No I just recognize people have different opinions/viewpoints on things. I won't claim weird high ground that only people who agree with me are accurate and capable of critical thinking

I just edited the comment you can read some more.

I'm just pointing out your argument that TRP must be accurate because redpillers like it (no shit) is a silly one. Most people don't easily change their belief systems 180 degree around.

[–]BiggerDthanYouI'm cute :3 [スコア非表示]  (13子コメント)

Until I see from experience that TRP is wrong it's unlikely I will be budging, and you're the same.

TRP works. I won't deny that.

But it works best to a certain type of women and it doesn't work on another type of women. All the unicorns that I know are part of the latter.

you will only be convinced once you experience it for yourself in your life

TRP is not something new or groundbreaking. It's just street wisdom and macho culture mixed with an scientific approach by overanalyzing minds.

Been there; done that.

[–]GoingSolow[S] [スコア非表示]  (11子コメント)

I'll probably make a post about it sometime soon, but you're wrong. TRP works with ALL kinds of women. TRP framework gives you the tools to be adaptable and suit your game to the girl you're trying to lay/LTR. It's not PUA and it's not some script you have to follow, it's a mindset that you develop that helps you to control and succeed with any situation and woman you want. Of course you won't have a 100% success rate, not every woman will be into you, but every single girl is receptive to redpill tactics from the right man. Every single one of them. It's not just sluts and damaged girls. It works on them all.

[–]BiggerDthanYouI'm cute :3 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

TRP works with ALL kinds of women.

That highly depends on what you choose to be TRP.

Taking a shower, putting on some good clothes, hitting night clubs and just keeping cool obviously works, but that's far from being TRP exclusive.

If it's about treating them like children, putting them below you and acting as if you are superior, not showing any interest in them as a person or never showing emotions, deflecting too many shit tests and all the other dark triad stuff that obviously doesn't work on all women, because those things are red flags to many women.

it's a mindset that you develop that helps you to control and succeed with any situation and woman you want

It's a mindset that's adjusted to control situations with the type that women that it works best on.

but every single girl is receptive to redpill tactics from the right man

Sometimes I tried to fuck certain hot chicks as a way increase my standing among my friends.

By using different outfits and personas I could hit on them in various ways until I landed or she recognized me.

You don't realize on how many women it doesn't work. There are lots of others where you have to pretend to have interest in them and show her love if you want to get laid with them, but there are also others that want you to be friends first.

TRP has a very narrow view on sexual attraction and relationships. It's like their Chad is one of ten and parts of him in 5 of the personas I used to pick up women with.

[–]GoingSolow[S] [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

No, you can be super attractive, wear the best clothes, go to the best night clubs, and still not have the game to pull the type pf women you want. You need 1)knowledge of the trend of womens behaviours in our current world (TRP teaches this), and 2) the ability to manipulate women using those trends and behaviours to your advantage.

Knowing your "enemy" is crucial in seducing them. Knowing what the average, or vast majority of women are into will help tremendously in teaching you to act in ways that they wll find attractive. Every girl is slightly different, but having the right RP frame will allow you to notice the differences and adapt to suit her wants. Being good at this means you can pull ANY girl, whether she is the 40 year old conservative business lady or teenage feminist nonbinary festival chick. You can learn to game all of them. RP works on ALL women.

[–]BiggerDthanYouI'm cute :3 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The only thing that sets TRP apart from regular dating advice is the focus on being a complete douche.

So what you are saying is that RP works on some women if you don't apply RP to them? By not using any TRP tactics TRP works on them, right? Why not just say that TRP doesn't work on them?

[–]hauswyfetechno [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

RP works on ALL women.

LOL, I'd love to see you try to TRP my female friends. You'd be laughed out of town bud.

[–]StickItInTheToilet [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

You're saying that if a woman finds a man very physically attractive and he adapts his 'game' to her, then she'll like him?

You're actually saying that in order to be successful for different women, the guy must adapt to the woman?

Physical attraction is 80% of the way there for women. So he's already almost all the way there. And if he also adapts himself to her, OF COURSE he's going to be successful.

Jeez.

[–]GoingSolow[S] [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

No, I'm saying that while you can can game a lot of women in the same ways, the "outliers", the models, the french girls, the hippie girls, the "alt" girls, the conservative girls, the "sane, non damaged" girls, they can all be gamed with RP concepts too. You may say that NAWALT, and that some girls won't be responsive to them. You're wrong. With the right amount of RP knowledge you'll be able to figure out what moves works for every girl, and if she is even slightly physically attracted to you (which she should be, you lift right?), then you can almost certainly get her in your bed, no matter how different or "not like other girls" she thinks she is.

Even the girls here who say that they would never be attracted to a redpiller, who say they could easily pick out when they are being "gamed", who say that they can see red flags from a mile away. These BP girls can be played just as easy, even easier than most other girls. An attractive masculine man who's been given the tools from TRP to not take women seriously and not deal with their bullshit can game any woman he chooses. If he fails it's not because the woman chose not to sleep with them, it's because he fucked up somewhere in the seduction process. Women are putty in the hands of a man who knows what he's doing.

[–]StickItInTheToilet [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

I was using YOUR words. The man must change in order to attract different women (assuming he physically attracts them in the first place)

You honestly think the red pill has a key that can unlock any kind of woman (by any red pill man - as long as he lifts)? That is the kind of hysterical stuff that makes people laugh at red pill concepts.

[–]GoingSolow[S] [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Yes, the man has to say different things and act in different ways in order to attract different women. Being RP allows you to pick out which of these actions and words you'll need for the specific woman. I'm not going to pull a drunk girl at a club in a short dress the same way I would pull a girl at the library. I will act different around a goth girl with piercings than I will around a woman in a suit; but fundamentally, all these women act and respond the same way once you know which buttons to push.

What's so hysterical about that?

[–]tallwheelManosphere Unificationist [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

But it works best to a certain type of women and it doesn't work on another type of women. All the unicorns that I know are part of the latter.

Oh, here we go again. 'TRP only works on the worst kinds of women. The best women are saved for us, the followers of the one true pill. At least I know that with the BP, when I die and go to marriage, I am going to unicorn.'

[–]Bekazzled [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Being a Trump supporter does actually change the way a person lives their life. The girl on The_Donald being asked about what it's like to wear a Trump cap: "I get strange looks wherever I go but whatever." Because Trump has a history of demeaning women, of course she's going to get strange looks. It's her own choice, but I'm sure people are looking at her in a different way to how they looked at her a year or two ago.

You in fact are doing the same thing, you believe that your way of thinking is the real truthTM

What is "the blue pill way of thinking"? I don't have any strong ideologies I can throw around. You act as though it's TRP, or only one other way of thinking. What IS that one other way of thinking?

[–]Blackbeard345 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

To me trp is the truth... like I don't think anything can change my mind. I'm not conservative and I wasn't born in the US. To me trp should be read by every men out there even if they don't believe in it and especially the bad stuff that it says about women.

I look around me and I see good men with the best of intentions treated like shit. I see them and I know were the relationships is going but they never see it. In the end it's always scary cause it's the same pattern. The woman they are with leaves them at the worst moment, when they have nothing left.

I've always say when a man lies to a woman most of the time he just want sex but when the woman lies be careful cause she will take everything. I know you may say those are just doormat maybe it's true but the problem they have is that they always try to do the right thing and some are just dumb. Trp has a ton of example that I've see it play in real life. The bad stuff that is said about women on trp u not gonna find it anywhere else.

On the dating thing. I've always workout and I'm in incredible shape. Now tell me what is it that I need? Money? Hobbies? Talk to ppl? What is it that is gonna get me the girls that I want? What is this amazing kind of life that I should have to get the girls?

Yes, I have girls interested in me that I don't need to talk. But the ones that I want when I see them I can't just be myself. I have to act more arrogant, dickish and not taken them too seriously. I don't know why but it works. I don't walk around talking about alpha/beta or women hate. I just read trp once in a while and think their is a lot of truth to it.

[–]Bekazzled [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah. I think OP thought this heading would make him seem even-handed, not purporting to support either side. And probably thought this about the whole post, and didn't recognize how much it sounds like hard-core RP philosophy (where RP thinking is immediately favourably placed against "anyone programmed by bluepill thinking".)

The first three sentences of the OP are in line with TRP's intro points, step for step. After finishing the first sentence actually I know where this is going. e.g.:

"Men have been lied to. We’ve been forced to believe in the Disney dream because movies told us, “Do this and girls will be happy. Given them flowers and presents and they’ll be faithful forever.” This was the beginning of the great lie society told us."

etc etc. I've read it ad finitum. And heard the youtube videos and podcasts over the last 2.5 years. You can tell where it's going from the language.

I really hoped it wasn't going to follow the regular formula. But it's textbook RP and I wonder how many people who think they're moderate RPers are actually hard-core RPers.

I genuinely believe OP that you don't realize how much you really are entirely integrated into RP.

I think if you believe you have the keys to absolute truth, you have entirely given yourself over to a philosophy, because no group has that answer.

[–]dakruNeither [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The problem is though, just like the religion vs atheism analogy; we will never know if the people who are BP and read TRP reject because they think RP ideas are stupid and irrational, or because they are taught to reject these kind of ideas from the start.

It's true that plenty of people reject an idea because they didn't really consider it, they automatically assume that it can't be right, they considered it but dismissed it with bad logic, they were taught to have some sort of bias against it, etc. The point I'd make is that it's really hard to judge whether this applies to someone when you have skin in the game. We're predisposed to assume that people who reject ideas that we believe in were rejecting them for those bad reasons.

And it's not just BPers who are taught by BP sources to dismiss RP and its ideas with e.g. "that's just misogyny". RPers are also taught by RP sources to dismiss BP and its ideas with things like e.g. "that's just the feminine imperative talking". Look at this post from redpillschool, where he rejects engaging in discussions here on PPD because it involves making concessions and serving the feminine imperative (halfway down the post), and also talks about using moderation on the TRP subreddit itself to make sure that the "message doesn't slip" due to PC culture and the feminine imperative. That's just one example and it's from the creator of the subreddit so it's really not surprising, but it's pretty clear that it's assuming the impossibility of BP correctness in a similar way to how many BPers assume the impossibility of RP correctness.

We can never know, all we can do is assume. I'm assumimg it's the latter, simply because to me, TRP theory is so straightforward and so truthful that it's hard to deny.

I completely understand the urge to make the assumption, but I think that using it as the basis of your argument is hiding what the real issue is. I'm going to work backwards with a simplified (and slightly switched around) summary of the discussion to show what I mean (I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but I wanted to make it short to show my point).

  • You: Low red-to-blue conversion rates are evidence for the truth of TRP.
  • Me: Blue-to-red conversion rates are pretty low too. I don't think we have evidence to think they're all that different.
  • You: But low blue-to-red conversion rates are a result of rejecting TRP for bad reasons (not really considering it, etc.).
  • Me: Do we have any evidence for one side's low conversion rates being less legitimate like that?
  • You: It's an assumption I'm making based on the fact that TRP seems so obviously true.
  • Me: What's your belief that TRP is obviously true based on?
  • You: My personal experiences. (Based on statement in OP: "I started to draw parallels to my own life, to experiences I had, to the way girls I knew behaved")

So it started out seeming like your argument for TRP's truth was about conversion rates, but your argument for TRP's truth is actually your personal experience (since your arguments about conversion rates were, in the end, just based on your personal experience).

Which is fine, personal experiences matter. Our actions would be crippled if we couldn't recognize patterns and make plans of action based on our personal experiences. But then that's what we should be discussing. There's no need for the first 5 bullet points about conversion rates that I put up there in the simplified discussion, because the real meat or base of your argument is in the last 2, on personal experience.

[–]disposable_pants [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

What about the likely fact that most people who are blue and who've heard of TRP haven't converted to being red?

Where's the evidence to support the idea that "most people who are blue and who've heard of TRP haven't converted to being red," though?

TBP has ~28K subscribers right now, so that's at least 28K people who've heard of TRP and disagree with it. Let's assume ten times that number have heard of TRP (~280K) in addition to the ~160K subscribers to TRP. That's ~440K total people who've heard of TRP, and ~36% of those wind up subscribing to the sub -- all using numbers as favorable to your theory as reasonable. An idea that wins over a third of people who hear about it isn't an idea you can dismiss lightly, and if you use more balanced assumptions (e.g. in addition to its 160K subscribers, TRP has another 160K readers who buy into the ideas but haven't subscribed) it's not hard to believe that a majority of people who've heard of TRP agree with it.

Furthermore, how many of the people who've heard of TRP and dismissed it actually read the sub's content and gave it serious consideration? Say George grows up in the deep backwoods of Alabama and the only way he hears about the Democratic party is the older folks around town talking about "that Muslim nigger president who's wiping his ass with the Constitution and forcing gay marriages and abortions on people." As a result, George never takes the time to actually read what Democrats believe or what they do; he just assumes they're wrong because that's all he hears. He knows about the Democratic party, but he's unthinkingly rejected it. Is it reasonable to count George if we're looking at the ratio of people who accept an idea to people who've heard of it?

[–]Sandralees [スコア非表示]  (32子コメント)

Why don't you go and visit /r/exredpill?

[–]exit_sandmannot the MGTOW sandman [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

You mean that sub with less than 2k subscribers (of whom a decent share probably never were redpillers in the first place) with a whopping 5 posts per month? Yeah, that'll show him...

[–]GroovyEFS[X A N A X] [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Well yeah because most people who disagree with a subreddit don't feel the need to go to another subreddit specifically designed to announce that fact.

[–]RojoEscarlataRed Pill [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You haven't see the blue pill sub?

[–]disposable_pants [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

You say that, yet TBP has ~28K members. Clearly there are significant numbers of people who do join subreddits just to announce that they disagree with other subreddits. Shit, look at /r/enoughtrumpspam, among other examples.

[–]GroovyEFS[X A N A X] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That's because TBP is just SRS 2.0, if not TRP they'd find other targets. They just wanna sit there and hatejerk about anything.

But that's different from what OP is talking about. The vast majority of TBP are not ex-TRPers, they are SJWs or at least regular old feminists. That's a whole other demographic who loves virtue signalling.

And even then, TBP's active userbase is negligible.

[–]GoingSolow[S] [スコア非表示]  (25子コメント)

The premise you guys make is that TRP is wrong on every level, is miosgynist, and will ruin or make into assholes the majority of guys who believe it.

If that was true, then the number of people pulling out and opening up about it would be pretty high. If it really didn't work then you'd have A LOT of guys admitting to it, and definitely more than one post every week or so.

If TRP is fundamentally wrong in every aspect, we can assume that 90-100% of people who go TRP ruin their lives and relationships. Even if just 50% of guys who came to TRP were fucked up by it (including subscribers and lurkers) and only 10% of those guys decided to tell people about their story, that subreddit would be much more active, or the number of ex-TRP flairs on this one would be much more numerous.

[–]bones_and_love [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

The premise you guys make is that TRP is wrong on every level, is miosgynist, and will ruin or make into assholes the majority of guys who believe it.

The issue with things like reddit is it simulates a conversation, and those normally happened between 2 people. That's an issue, because I never said that, and I'm honestly not sure /u/Sandralees ever said that either.

There's a nexus of personality traits that are, to be frank, weak and gross. They're less about helping other people and more about having zero self-respect. All of those characteristics and the unfortunate things that happen to people with them all lump up into what these subreddits call "the nice guy"

So let's get to "red pill" life philosophy. I think most of the advice falls into three categories.

  1. Stuff you should do to yourself (e.g. a red pill would say "workout")
  2. Stuff you should know about women (e.g. a red pill would say "women will cheat on you with anyone better than you")
  3. Stuff you should do to women to make them want you (e.g. a red pill would say "defuse shit tests, bla bla")

Honestly, stuff in category 1 usually falls into the category of good w/o much jargon or extreme ideas.

Category 2 and 3 have some cross-talk, sometimes 3 justifies its actions from theory in 2. Taken together, I'd say what they recommend is really hardcore and synthetic. The issue is often less that an action was taken or suggested but the underlying, forced motive behind it. Even "naturals" who do anything remotely similar are doing it because they think it's cute, funny, or necessary for self-respect/fairness. Red pillers are doing it, because "women hampster gotta get that wheel spinning, and hypergamy bla bla bla weird theory subnote 5". That is the poisonous aspect of TRP, the thought process is very warped.

Yes, sometimes the action suggested from the thought process is a good idea, e.g. it will directly result in you not letting someone walk all over you. Again, it's the internal way that the action is justified or revealed as a need to a TRP practitioner that is warped.

I'll wrap this all up by saying "nice guys" will see an increase in quality of life by going "trp". That's because they're at ground zero and doing everything wrong, and everything TRP recommends is centered around removing the really repulsive, illogical parts of that person's regiment but more as a rule or ploy in a game rather than actual true, genuine self-respect/normal reasoning. They will probably stick with it for at least a bit, perhaps eventually tone it down or transfer the informations/lessons into a normal way of thinking.

If I had to summarize, normal people's language focus on as a matter of fact what they want for themselves because they deserve it. That's their self-esteem talking. And it's not just a motto they pull out, they actually believe it. They might say, "I want someone to like me genuinely when I date them." "I want someone who respects my boundaries." so on and so on, doesn't always have to pertain to relationships. "I expect someone who's my friend to go through, well maybe not thick and thin with me, but at least thicker and thinner with me." TRP on the other hand focuses on other people and describes them, quite frankly, in a very pessimistic way and in a way that at least seems to imply it's a vast number of people. "Women will use you in this way. Watch out". "Bad friends will do this and not reciprocate ever." Do you see how these statements are two sides of the same coin when paired with the relevant one from the "normal" thought process? Except one is about what you expect as a matter of fact and levies no judgment on huge groups of people, you expect it regardless of whether 90% of people won't deliver or if 90% of people will deliver. It's about you, no them. The other is more like, "Be careful! 90% of people won't do you right." The two angles are:

  1. I expect X.
  2. Watch out for some large number of people who will not do X.

But yeah, even 2 is better than "I'm oblivious and let people walk all over me so I see an improvement in life using 2 and therefore stay with it."

It's just not a positive, normal way of thinking. And this leads me to the final big issue with TRP -- it is absolutely synthetic. They emphasize worrying about all the bad things (not X) that can come from others rather than just working on tuning your own perception (I want X). You shouldn't have to go through a riddle, thumbing through a few caricatures from red pill philosophy, and using the solution of it to drive your interaction with women or anyone else. You should just know what you expect and behave appropriately. TRP people often are in such a "memorized" or "algorithmic" state that they, quite frankly, act out and act in embarrassing ways (if half the stories posted are real). It's because they're following a script rather than having worked on themselves. Probably better than being a "nice guy", fake it till you make it isn't the worst thing to do, but there is no need for your "fake it till you make it" routine to focus so heavily and so negatively/pessimistically on other people.

[–]sen--senfirst of her name, non-red queen of the mythical slut-beasts [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

how easy do you think it would be for someone who ruined their personal relationships and made a complete ass out of themselves to admit they were wrong, take responsibility for the things they did, apologize, try to completely change their ways, all while coping with a great deal of shame and anger? it's not surprising that some people would dig themselves deeper into an ideology rather than admit they fucked up and take on everything that comes with doing that. even if they did, i'd imagine that they just want to pull away from it entirely instead of staying partially involved in it and letting it remain part of their life.

[–]GoingSolow[S] [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

Just as easy as the numerous, in fact, countless incel stories, beta past stories, blunder stories, dead bedroom stories and "this is how stupid and bluepill I used to be" admittances from current or past pillers.

Anonymity makes it easy to own up to stupidity. And if TRP ruined your life I'd assume there would be at least a few people who'd feel obligated to stop others from making the same mistake. In fact that's all TRP is, a bunch of guys who realised they've been lied to their whole lives and figure it out for themselves got together and are trying to stop others from making the same mistakes. The kind who feel obligated to help others end up posting a lot on TRP instead of just lurking, and so for those posters who's lives were ruined, surely they'd feel obligated to turn it around and post about how not to make the mistake of becoming a piller? Where are they?

[–]sen--senfirst of her name, non-red queen of the mythical slut-beasts [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

Just as easy as the numerous, in fact, countless incel stories, beta past stories, blunder stories, dead bedroom stories and "this is how stupid and bluepill I used to be" admittances from current or past pillers.

you don't see a difference between "people hurt me in the past" and "i hurt people in the past"? the stories you mentioned are not the same as what i mentioned.

Anonymity makes it easy to own up to stupidity.

it also makes it easier to make shit up, create a persona, hide from the truth. after all, no one's there to call your bluff right?

Where are they?

i don't think they're obligated to do anything, and who's to say they aren't sharing their mistakes with those close to them where they can make a difference away from the hell they were just a part of, instead of on Reddit? is Reddit the only place you're using as an example? this thread seems more and more like it should be a CMV, honestly, because there's so little that can be proven (much as you want to put TRP in a positive light).

[–]tallwheelManosphere Unificationist [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

someone who ruined their personal relationships and made a complete ass out of themselves

you don't see a difference between "people hurt me in the past" and "i hurt people in the past"? the stories you mentioned are not the same as what i mentioned.

You moved the goalpost from 'TRP will hurt your relationships' to "TRP will hurt other people'. So are you saying now that following TRP will only have negative affects for the people around that person? There won't be any noticeable negative affects for the person following TRP?

[–]sen--senfirst of her name, non-red queen of the mythical slut-beasts [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

i think it can do both... though i have little sympathy for someone choosing red pill as their path. it's clear that they know what they do is hurtful to others, and they still voluntarily follow it, even enjoying the pain they cause others. so, i don't particularly feel sorry for that type. they cross the line on purpose; too bad.

[–]tallwheelManosphere Unificationist [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

OK. At least you admit that you moved the goalposts.

[–]sen--senfirst of her name, non-red queen of the mythical slut-beasts [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

i didn't, but okay.

[–]Bekazzled [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You said you've been talking to friends about TRP... how did they take it?

[–]StickItInTheToilet [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

How can trp be wrong? The forum is based upon indulging in hate of women. The subscribers there get to bask in it. That is what they want and that's what they get. As a bonus, they get to post fake field reports, in which they get to dominate and humiliate women or demonstrate their alpha status - a shared fantasy there.

The ones who don't hate women just fade away from the forum, never to be seen again.

[–]GoingSolow[S] [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

You're really dead set on this woman-hating thing aren't you? Keep calling us that, it doesn't effect us. Misogynist is so overused now that it means nothing when we are called it.

Explain to me why all of TRP is about hating women, and exlusively hating women. Explain how every single poster has a real vendetta against females and why and how we despise them. Then explain to me why it matters whether we hate women or not.

If you can do all these things, then I'll rethink my position. But first, prove to me that I hate women.

[–]StickItInTheToilet [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

No one with a healthy attitude towards themselves and women would tolerate the red pill forum. No one. But it doesn't matter whether you hate women or not.

If you can do all these things, then I'll rethink my position

You can't "rethink" it. You joining the red pill was an emotional decision, based upon your own self-hate and your bitterness towards women. Your emotions cloud everything. Anything that contradicts your emotions just makes you run to the red pill more.

[–]GoingSolow[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

What makes RP attitude unhealthy? Why was it an emotional decision? What makes you think I hate myself, and why does that matter on whether TRP is correct or not?

You are not very good at debating. You don't know how to argue. You tell me nothing, nor answer my questions. All you do is throw insults or emotional shock phrases in the hope of shaming me into submission. You understand that won't fly over here right? We aren't like your bluepill sub. You're here to debate us; in order to do that you need to step off your high horse and argue with us like equals, take us seriously, and accept there may be value and substance to our arguments, instead of what you are doing now which is repeating the same few lines in every single comment you make.

"TRP is only for women haters and misogynists"

"TRPers are not sane/unhealthy/full of self hatred"

"TRPers won't be convinced because they are to stupid to understand why they are so stupid"

You keep repeating these things like you think they matter to us, that we care what you think of us, or that we will change our minds if you keep saying them.

Once again, call me a woman hater all you want, I don't believe you. If you can convince me through argument that I hate women, instead of just repeating that I do, then I'll rethink my position.

[–]tallwheelManosphere Unificationist [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

No one with a healthy attitude towards themselves and women would tolerate the red pill forum. No one.

Well, since you define having "a healthy attitude towards themselves and women" as being everything TBP says a man should be, it's no wonder you're going to see people on TRP as being anything but that.

[–]StickItInTheToilet [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Most people who see a forum full of men calling women sluts, whores, scum, child-brained, irrational, alpha sperm-jackers etc etc are going to form a certain opinion of the people who post there.

TBP doesn't say what a man should be - that's where tbp is different. trp has a very narrow path for men. tbp says individual men should define manhood for themselves and make their own path.

[–]tallwheelManosphere Unificationist [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

TBP says 'Respect the wimmenz,' 'Don't say anything bad about the wimmenz,' 'Don't say anything bad about the wimmenz,' 'Don't say anything bad about the wimmenz,'

...oh yeah and 'Don't say anything about the wimmenz which could be construed as being kinda bad.'

That's actually pretty limiting when even stating something necessary for sexual success like the biological differences between men and women can be interpreted as breaking all of the above.

[–]StickItInTheToilet [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Stop saying bad things about wimmenz. I'm getting triggered and will need to find a safe space soon.

[–]deskgrunt88Your moralistic outrage means nothing [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

lol

[–]the_shitposting_pillFuckin' bitches on the daily [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If you went up to some stranger on the street and mentioned "the red pill", they'd probably think you were some weird Matrix fan. Hardly anybody knows about TRP. A community like r/exredpill is even smaller and less known. If somebody steps away from TRP, do you expect them to write a long-winded Facebook post about it?

Hey, did you know that Islam is one of the fastest growing religions today? Are you going to convert because of those numbers?

[–]catemlBlue Pill Woman [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

The premise you guys make is that TRP is wrong on every level, is miosgynist, and will ruin or make into assholes the majority of guys who believe it. If that was true, then the number of people pulling out and opening up about it would be pretty high. If it really didn't work then you'd have A LOT of guys admitting to it, and definitely more than one post every week or so.

That doesn't really follow. If you signed up for an ideology that to an outsider seems assholeish, and believed these assholeish thoughts for a time, would you then go to a place which specific mocks that ideology when you no longer believe it? Or would you be kind of confused and ashamed and try and forget all about it?

I'd imagine that a lot of guys who sort of go down the redpill route and then change their minds (because they get into a good relationship and let go of bitterness about women, or whatever) probably slowly just start to let go of the ideas rather than having a lightbulb-above-head "Aha! I am a dick!" moment.

In my experience, people don't really like to admit they were wrong, not just to others but to themselves (myself included, no one is really above this). It creates a lot of dissonance to admit your whole ideology was completely off and you wholeheartedly bought into what some one else was saying. More often than not they seem to go "Yeah but I wasn't WRONG wrong, I see your point now, but still... yeah" and slowly change their outlook. So it makes sense that they would avoid going to a place that forces them to confront how they were wrong when they could just.... not.

[–]deskgrunt88Your moralistic outrage means nothing [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's a praxeology, not an ideology.

[–]findingmrnemoUnruly [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You seem to not realize TRPer's tend to have quiet the ego and not admit they are wrong no matter what and do what ever to prove they are right. More so they often double down when they know they are wrong, more so when mocked.

[–]tallwheelManosphere Unificationist [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

LOL. Most recent post "I still don't think I understand what the hell theredpill is about?" Post body:

As far as I can tell, its a bunch of people who wanna get laid and treat women badly and use a whole bunch of fancy words? Right?

Yeah. Sounds like an ex-redpiller to me. /s

[–]the_shitposting_pillFuckin' bitches on the daily [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

First of all, TRP is a dinky lil' community hidden away in the dark corner of the internet that is the 'manosphere'. Nobody cares. If someone leaves, nobody will notice (besides a drop in subscriber numbers).

Second of all, my friend is an ex-TRPer. He's the one who introduced me to TRP. I used to give him so much shit for that lol. Ask us anything, I guess?

[–]tallwheelManosphere Unificationist [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

nobody will notice (besides a drop in subscriber numbers).

Nobody will even notice that, since the number who subscribe are always higher than the number who unsubscribe.

Ask us anything, I guess?

OK. Just tell us the story. How long did he follow TRP and how did he implement it in his life? What convinced him to quit?

[–]the_shitposting_pillFuckin' bitches on the daily [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

the number who subscribe are always higher than the number who unsubscribe.

Exactly. That applies to most subreddits. You just won't notice, so OP doesn't have much reason to say there aren't people who walked away.

Just tell us the story.

He actively lurked TRP (and other "manosphere" blogs/forums) for a little over a year. This was way back. He was obese until he jumped on the keto bandwagon and started losing weight. I can't directly attribute that to TRP, he knew about r/keto much earlier. And he knew that he should be exercising. We were already fucking around on r/fitness and the BB forums and I had lost nearly 50 lbs myself the year before.

Besides that, he just started being a total douche (to compensate for his mommy/daddy issues and for having the social tact of a severely autistic teenager). I can go into more detail, if you'd like, but it'll have to be after work.

What convinced him to quit? He introduced me to TRP* and I started making fun of him. I used to read the ridiculous "field reports" out loud and teased him whenever he tried to use "alpha" or "beta" or "hypergamy" or whatever unironically. He just got embarrassed and stopped visiting all those blogs. I wasn't humiliating him or anything, but I was calling out his bad behavior and teasing him. Unfortunately, he was spiralling deeper into his depression and cutting out friends.

*It was actually a RoK article first. Some bullshit about sluts, I can't remember.

More recently, he kept up the diet and lost weight. Looks much better now. And I dragged his pathetic ass to the gym. We still work out together occasionally (when our work schedules allow it). A (female) friend and I put together a Tinder profile for him. Got him laid a few times, until he caught feelings for this one cutie. They've been together for half a year. I'm glad that he's improving himself for the sake of self-improvement, for his health and happiness. And not because some miserable online forum tried to shove a red-colored suppository up his ass.

[–]TheLoneDinosaur [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

Greetings. I am a former red piller with a highly upvoted post on TBP explaining my position back when I wrote it: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheBluePill/comments/2omq1u/anger_is_a_dangerous_emotion_former_red_piller/

Looking back now, I'm not sure I made the best decision to go blue pill. After having spent some time over there, I must say it's a very depressing place and these days if you disagree with ANYTHING, you are downvoted to oblivion. Theres no room for discussion over there.

When I wrote that post, it was a misunderstanding of TRP. I can probably take that post I wrote and poke holes in it to see how I was incorrectly judging TRP. All those "nice" women I spoke of in that post who supposedly didn't fit TRP beliefs...well, the more I think about it, they actually do fit TRP beliefs in one way or another. They've all but flaked out on our friendship shorty after me expressing sexual interest in them. I shouldn't have been beta with them.

Now, I don't know if I should go back to TRP or not. I'm still over at TBP for the time being, but I'm leaning more purple now than ever. And it really is because TBP has made a very BAD impression on me as a sub- you can't disagree with anything on there or you're downvoted. Not a feminist? DOWNVOTED! Agree with something TRP says? DOWNVOTED!

It's all very shaky. So yeah, technically I'm an ex red piller, but again, I think I misunderstood TRP back then. I get it now.

[–]Ringoddess [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The blue pill is a joke sub, I doubt it's gonna give you dating advice. I thought blue pillers are what most people you'll meet in the real world are, by beliefs at least. And um yeah some people will flake on friendships if you express sexual interest because it makes them uncomfortable that their friend wants to fuck them.

[–]literallyhereyellow pill gender bending lizard [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I haven't hung around TBP much, but I would probably say it's another echo chamber to read through but not remain in. The world is too weird and complicated for your only options to be red or blue.

[–]TheLoneDinosaur [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The world is too weird and complicated for your only options to be red or blue.

This right here, true statement.

[–]tallwheelManosphere Unificationist [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

This supports OP's theory that those who criticize TRP actually don't fully understand it.

[–]the_shitposting_pillFuckin' bitches on the daily [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well, now you just sound like fundamentalist Christians.

"You were Christian and now you left the church? You never understood Christianity. You never received God's grace. You were never saved."

Too close to home lol.

[–]UA_HammerA E S T H E T I C S 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

It means we have really charismatic cult leaders

[–]GoingSolow[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

How charismatic can anonymous words on a screen really be?

[–]Echo1883 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I joined a cult. Biggest mistake of my life. The founder of that cult had been dead for 30 years. How charismatic can words in a book or spoken on a tape really be? VERY. When it says things you want to hear, and when it plays on common insecurities and natural human motivations simple words written down can have devastating effects.

Along with the mistake of joining a cult (my choice). I was raised in a heavy Christian household (not my choice). In that situation as well the words written were written 2 thousand years ago, and they were SO persuasive to young me that even after leaving Christianity altogether it was multiple years before I stopped doing certain learned behaviors from that book.

Written text certainly has power. Just because it wasn't spoken doesn't mean communication from a person can't be charismatic. Its simply a matter of how it plays out on the person reading them.

I have zero interest in debating either the TRP or TBP side here. I don't have an interest in the discussion itself, but I DO have a very strong interest in cults, and while I am not saying that TRP or TBP is a cult (again, don't want to have that debate) it is worth discussing in response to your statement.

[–]GroovyEFS[X A N A X] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Very. Reddit alone is full of "internet personalities." GLO is the best example to use in this case. Make a lot of noise and generate enough attention with your online persona and you will gain some kind of following. The internet makes it easier than ever to put your thoughts out there to millions of people.

[–]Changes4175 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

We're having this discussion aren't we?

[–]FairlyNaiveRed Pill DoubleAgent [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

GLO would be flattered

[–]StickItInTheToilet [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

You are a woman hater. You can deny it all you like. Anyone staying with the red pill hates women on some level. That is undeniable. And I have not seen any intelligent discussion there at all. The fact that you find it intelligent says a lot for you.

As for your post, people who are sensible would drift away from the red pill. They often wouldn't 'convert' back and start posting as a blue piller because most people in this wide world don't identify as a pill. The whole concept of pills is damned silly and juvenile.

[–]GoingSolow[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yes, I am a woman hater by your definition. Now explain to me how, and why, I hate women.

[–]MagicGainbowKeepin' it real, havin' a feel [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

Anyone staying with the red pill hates women on some level.

I don't hate women at all, in fact instead of seeing them as pure beings i'm seeing them as equal to guys, mission accomplished feminism.

That is undeniable.

If that were the case then why do guys spend so much time attempting to attract them still?

As for your post, people who are sensible would drift away from the red pill.

Or if ex-redpill/punching morpheus has shown me, they try trp, can't get it to work/misapply it and essentially ragequit.

[–]StickItInTheToilet [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

If that were the case then why do guys spend so much time attempting to attract them still?

Does the term "women are nothing more a warm, wet hole" mean anything to you? It should, as it's repeated often enough in trp.

[–]MagicGainbowKeepin' it real, havin' a feel [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

Does the term "women are nothing more a warm, wet hole" mean anything to you?

Hyperbole that does not represent the whole.

[–]StickItInTheToilet [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

It is the whole. The warm wet whole.

[–]MagicGainbowKeepin' it real, havin' a feel [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

It is the whole. The warm wet whole.

I don't believe it and I subscribe to trp therefore you have been disproven.

[–]StickItInTheToilet [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I don't believe you and I read trp therefore you have been disproven.

[–]MagicGainbowKeepin' it real, havin' a feel [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I don't believe you

Check my post history, have I ever said it once?

I read trp therefore you have been disproven.

Actually you have disproven yourself.

[–]Bekazzled [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I think I've read "women want to be raped" several hundred times on TRP over the last 2.5 years. It's even gaining traction. Is this hyperbole?

[–]MagicGainbowKeepin' it real, havin' a feel [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Is this hyperbole?

Yes.

[–]AutoModeratorPurple Pill Machine...literally[M] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Attention!

  • You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.

  • For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.

  • If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.

  • OP you can choose your own flair, just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[–]prodigy2throw#Transracial [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

What inbound interesting was whenever someone would post about renouncing TRP they would say they were successful with women after dropping it.

Ex-TRP usually just go back to their beta ways and seems like they continue to struggle.

Some can't be helped.

[–]UnbelievableTekniqueBanned from TRP [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

or keep doubters scared and worried of retaliation.

Yes they do, some of them anyway.

If TRP really was fucked up and bad for the health of everyone involved, where are all the people who were smart enough to pull out and tell everyone of their mistake?

There are so many fat people, drinkers, drug-users, smokers etc. that also never stop doing what they're doing. TRP makes them feel good because it promises them hope, but it's an empty promise.

I don't and never did really consider myself a RPer, I rarely posted on there because I despise the community. I never was entirely convinced by what they said, and now I'm aware that it's basically bullshit for the most part, at least the stuff that isn't obvious like 'women like attractive men'. The funny thing is, RPers were always horrified by the things I have to say about women, it's certainly not a case of me being too blue or whatever, it's just that they're wrong.

[–]susandeathhas a towel with diamond studded cocks [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

In fact the more redpill you become the more you stray away from the subreddit. Besides some oldies that work to keep the sub consistent, the turnover of posters is high. Betas arrive at the subreddit, they learnt shit, apply it, it works, and then they leave. Guys who managed to get their shit together don't need more self help, occasionally they post some advice or a "x year follow up", but they never stick around for too long. Alphas don't spend ALL their time on Internet forums.

This just supports your narrative. Sure the guys who don't post anymore could be all trps still, but they could just as easily be ex-trps .

[–]BiggerDthanYouI'm cute :3 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

This happens primarily through public education, children's and teenager's TV shows, and most importantly movies.

What about all the movies and series that don't fit your cherry picked narrative?

If you did watch so much TV you should have noticed that Barney Stinston from How I Met Your Mother exists, that the betas from Big Bang Theory are the joke and that their weirdness is not something meant to be followed, that Californication doesn't show a beta orbiter nice guy, that Charley from Two and a Half Men gets laid all the time, that fat people are a joke and I could go on and on with cherry picked examples that fit MY narrative.

I've found that the people who end up "converting" to TRP tend to be the smart ones who began to question authority.

The smart ones don't need to be told that women do like sex, that they want to have sex with attractive people more than duty sex with some lardass, that they aren't perfect angel like beings and that the way you dress has an effect on how you get perceived.

The guys who arrive and don't convert are too far gone. They aren't smart/willfull enough to question their programming/authority and they stay in their comfortable space.

That's a wrong assumption.

And the reconversion rate is low. I know of no Terpers who were red and then went back.

Just because you ignore them doesn't mean they don't exist.

[–]GoingSolow[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I think it may have been a mistake to mention media at the beginning of my post, as that may just result in people nitpicking my examples and ignoring the overall point. What I'm trying to get at with that explanation is that bluepill thinking is the default and it's taught to us at school and through the media. I may make a post about it that specific point another time but I don't think this is the place to expand further on this line of thinking. I don't want us to get too distracted through arguing about media that we end up mot addressing the post in its entirety.

But just to slip in, Barney is a comic relief character. His womanising ways are presented in a way so that you as the viewer don't think you can ever achieve or act that way, that he's a free radical and entirely unique.

The smart ones don't need to be told that women do like sex, that they want to have sex with attractive people more than duty sex with some lardass, that they aren't perfect angel like beings and that the way you dress has an effect on how you get perceived.

That's true. But guys are not taught these things. Guys are taught the opposite by the BP world and accept it. It's the smart ones that eventually figure out these things. And in order to do so they need to be taught by their fathers, other masculine figures, or their peers/Internet forums. They need to be smart enough to drop the old philopshy of "she will love me for who I am, looks aren't the most important, women are perfect Angels". These things are instilled into us from an early age, and you need to be smart enough to drop these ideas that BP guys have and look for the alternative.

Just because you ignore them doesn't mean they don't exist.

I can't ignore that which isn't there. I have found none of these people. It's not that I don't listen to them, it's just that they don't exist. I'd love to hear stories from RP apostates.

[–]orcscorper [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If you did watch so much TV you should have noticed that Barney Stinston from How I Met Your Mother exists,

Wow. One ladykiller sitcom character per decade. That's an outlier, not the norm.

that the betas from Big Bang Theory are the joke and that their weirdness is not something meant to be followed.

Leonard is beta. The other guys are delta, or omega or something. And 3/4 got girlfriends; that's more than your average comic book nerd.

that fat people are a joke

The joke is, the fat guys always have wives way too hot for them (Mike and Molly excepted).

[–]SipsSparklingWaterBlue Berry Flavoured [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

There is a lot of ex-red pillers. You just don't hear about them.

[–]GoingSolow[S] [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Where are they then? Even if there were loads and loads, are you saying that there won't be at least a few that would speak up? I don't think every single one of them would remain silent.

The ex redpill subreddit is dead, and if TRP was really as wrong and fucked up as you guys say it is, would there not be MANY more lives ruined, MANY more posters in that sub/this one and MANY more horror stories?

Instead we only get a few and an exredpill post once a week. If TRP was really fundamentally wrong and fucked up from a base level and didn't work at all wouldn't there be loads of lives ruined and loads more people speaking out?

The fact there aren't is evidence to TRP being sucessfull for the majority of subscribers no?

[–]SipsSparklingWaterBlue Berry Flavoured [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

They usually get off reddit. I get a lot of them messaging me.

[–]BrahYouSerious [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Post a screenshot

[–]Bekazzled [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I've spoken to them too. They're terrified of the harassment they get when they try to leave.

I'm going to protect them from further PMs telling them to kill themselves, thanks. I will NEVER EVER disclose their identity.

[–]orcscorper [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Yeah, and I have a lot of girlfriends. You wouldn't know them; they all live in Canada. But they totally exist.

[–]SipsSparklingWaterBlue Berry Flavoured [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Sounds like something TRP guys would say TBH

[–]tallwheelManosphere Unificationist [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Anyone who said that in the TRP sub would be laughed out of there pretty quickly.

[–]GunsGermsAndSteel [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

Women absolutely love red pill men... As long as we never utter the words "red pill".

Women do NOT love what the rest of Reddit thinks red pill is- misogynist whiny fat manbabies crying because they can't get laid.

Women love men who really have accepted red pill doctrine and have made the proper changes to accommodate these teachings in their lives- men who are mentally and physically strong, dominant, unshakable.

[–]sen--senfirst of her name, non-red queen of the mythical slut-beasts [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

no. there are plenty of women not interested in dominant or aggressive men, who don't want to be led but cared for as a partner, and prioritize personality over looks (while considering both important). choosing to ignore that, even if that's not the guy you want to be, is a mistake.

[–]GoingSolow[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

all women are interested in dominant men. Or at least dominant to them. Every girl defines dominance in her own way, and every girl will only fuck and date a guy who they see as above them and dominant over them. While some girls may date guys that are less dominant than your standard chad, the guys they date are still "leading" the girl, and are dominant to the girl personally. No girl ever wants to date a guy they have to take care of or lead. These relationships are never happy and don't last.

[–]sen--senfirst of her name, non-red queen of the mythical slut-beasts [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

all women are interested in dominant men. Or at least dominant to them.

no.

Every girl defines dominance in her own way, and every girl will only fuck and date a guy who they see as above them and dominant over them.

no.

While some girls may date guys that are less dominant than your standard chad, the guys they date are still "leading" the girl, and are dominant to the girl personally.

no.

No girl ever wants to date a guy they have to take care of or lead. These relationships are never happy and don't last.

and... no. i agree that no one wants a partner that is so helpless they essentially have to baby them (man or woman) but the above is a stretch. asserting this as fact for all women or all relationships is really, really stupid (so you should stop).

[–]tallwheelManosphere Unificationist [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Yep. We even have users in this sub like /u/BiggerDthanYou and /u/skinnysweaty who are basically natural alphas who sing the praises of TBP as a smokescreen in order to remain upstanding good guys in the public eye. In a way they are very smart to associate themselves with a sub that sings the praises of the status quo narrative of the sexes and shames misogynists.

[–]GunsGermsAndSteel [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Cool, if that's working for them then hey! For me it's simpler; I am openly red pill in everything I do- I've always told women I'm going to dominate them both in and out of the bedroom, that I expect them to keep the house clean and keep me well fed, that i expect sex on demand. You'd be surprised, it works really well, if only because I tend to attract the kind of woman who wants that.

I realize women do exist who aren't THAT into being dominated. I just don't care. I have zero interest in them.

[–]SkinnySweatyChad's Dad [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Or... we actually believe in equality.

Shocking, I know.

[–]ThatGreekLadyNon-Red Pill, anti-romantic 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Twilight is a Red Pill movie.

1)Bella was a girl approached by many guys. (it fits TRP narrative that women have many options)

2)Edward was an overidealized version of what women want according to TRP.

The Big Bang Theory is a very Red Pill series too. It's basically about a bunch of beta orbiters and a slut.

I watched Mean Girls a long time ago and I fail to see how it's Blue Pill.

TRPillers who complain about the media are as bad as the SJWs.

the lack of apostate RPers disproves the idea that RP ruins and damages lives, in fact it strengthens the validity of RP philosophy.

You can be a Red Piller and still let it ruin your life. I'm probably more Red Pill than most RPillers. It only brings the worst out of me. That's my personal issue, I can't get over how much humanity sucks and I don't want to overcome it really.

[–]GoingSolow[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I think it may have been a mistake to mention media at the beginning of my post, as that may just result in people nitpicking my examples and ignoring the overall point. What I'm trying to get at with that explanation is that bluepill thinking is the default and it's taught to us at school and through the media. I may make a post about that specific point another time but I don't think this is the place to expand further on this line of thinking. I don't want us to get too distracted through arguing about media that we end up not addressing the post in its entirety.

[–]tallwheelManosphere Unificationist [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Any movie can be viewed through a redpill lens, really. If you want to talk about how Twilight is BP, why is Edward attracted to a dumpy, boring girl like Bella? (I think she has an attractive face, but come on, Edward could do much better.) It's BP fantasy that every boring girl has a prince in the waiting who will do anything for her.

[–]ThatGreekLadyNon-Red Pill, anti-romantic [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Bella was a virgin and young. According to TRP there's nothing else that men want.

[–]tallwheelManosphere Unificationist [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Eh? So if a man meets a fat ugly young virgin that should be all he needs to be satisifed?

Also, of course she was a virgin. It's a fucking movie. They can write her a virgin if they want to. I'm sure they thought it would make her seem more virtuous.

[–]ppdthrowawaiRed Pill [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Edward is the very definition of putting the pussy on the pedestal. Its a story about an average girl with her beta orbiters orbiting around her in a colossally retarded way.

That series is so fucked up in how it teaches kids about relationships. It's probably one of the most damaging pieces of our time.

[–]GunsGermsAndSteel [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I don't think we are even having the same conversation.

[–]GunsGermsAndSteel [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm pretty sure I was married to you.

[–]despisedlove2 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It is a great question.

There are indeed very few ex RP men (no idea about RPW).

There are millions of ex BP men who are are RP, or strongly influenced by RP.

This isn't a popularity contest, but given how the prevalent culture, at least in the West shames and ostracizes RP, that is a remarkable state of affairs.

This isn't also a matter of right or wrong, though those notions matter a lot to tradcons like me. It is a matter of the irreversible nature of being exposed to the bitter realities, and what works.

[–]Princeso_BubblegumFem Pill -1ポイント0ポイント  (19子コメント)

There aren't a lot of ex-feminists either. That doesn't really put in support the narrative you are trying to make.

The amount of people in, or not in, any ideological group doesn't say anything about the truth of that groups principles, this is ad populum.

[–]UA_HammerA E S T H E T I C S 6ポイント7ポイント  (7子コメント)

There aren't a lot of ex-feminists either. 

Hi. I have an sjw band tattoo on my shoulder and a good collection of far left and radfem punk band shirts at home. Ama.

[–]future_space_boobs [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Which bands jc

[–]UA_HammerA E S T H E T I C S [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Leftover crack, appalachian terror unit, pat the bunny, reagan youth, no cash, limp wrist

[–]future_space_boobs [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

aah that's kinda awesome... I hope you keep them at least for the irony.

[–]Princeso_BubblegumFem Pill [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

What do you think about Stalinism?

[–]UA_HammerA E S T H E T I C S [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

fascism by a different name. good for nothing except national defense, in the short term.

[–]Princeso_BubblegumFem Pill [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I guess you were never a Tankie then.

[–]UA_HammerA E S T H E T I C S [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

kinda hard to support someone who genocided your ethnicity. I've nearly laid out people like that before

[–]GoingSolow[S] 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's not about how many people are in or not in, it's about how many people leave.

Also I'm inclined to say there are A LOT of ex-feminists. We are all brought up with feminism. It's part of the blue pill programming. Every male and female, at school and on TV.

Yet there are plenty of non-feminists and anti feminists. They are all over the Internet anonymously even though they may hide it in real life. You may argue with a lot of them consistently. Everyone starts of a feminists, all anti-feminists are ex-feminists.

And have you not noticed the recent emergence in anti-feminist and anti-SJW thinking? tumblrimaction, fatpeoplehate, 4chan, trump. These are all people who started off feminists since kids and dropped the label. In fact I'm friends with a few girls who proudly proclaim they're not feminists, like its a cool thing to do now. And they're open about it in exclusively female spaces too, not just where there are guys to impress.

[–]Princeso_BubblegumFem Pill [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

When I see these kind of people it reminds me of Cristian apologists who claim to be "ex-atheists" when they were raised in a non-religious household. Their criticism of atheism often comes off as ignorant and nonsensical because in actuallitt they were never really atheists and don't know the arguments and thinking, they are just spewing shit in the same way "ex-feminists" do.

I want you to note here that I am not a Feminist myself, I am not trying to play the no true Scotsman game, I am just noting my observations.

[–]exit_sandmannot the MGTOW sandman [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

When I see these kind of people it reminds me of Cristian apologists who claim to be "ex-atheists" when they were raised in a non-religious household.

He has a point, though.

Personally, I never self-identified as a feminist, yet I fervently believed in a lot of bullshit feminist tenets (for example like men and women being and thinking basically the same apart from the obvious; or that there's no area whatsoever where women are better off than men) simply because I was hardly ever exposed to alternative concepts (and when I was, those who voiced these alternative opinions were cast in the worst light possible as a rule).

[–]-The-Pussy-Whisperer [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

/r/redpillwomen begs to differ

[–]tallwheelManosphere Unificationist [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

There aren't a lot of ex-feminists either.

This is totally not true. MRM circles are crawling with them. I, myself, was even a pretty ardent defender of feminism at one time. One of the most prominent MRA's, Warren Farrell was a huge feminist. He was chair of the New York chapter of NOW once.

[–]alcockell [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Warren Farrell was pushed out by the Steinem contingent when he tried to reassess the Male gender role

[–]tallwheelManosphere Unificationist [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Pretty much. I also remember him saying that he disagreed with NOW's stance on default custody after divorce. He believed 50/50 shared custody should be the default, while the position that NOW settled on is that the mother should get primary custody by default to protect against abusive husbands getting custody.

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

  1. Why would most people who don't need the redpill even be aware it exists? Hundreds of thousands internet users is barely a blip on the radar of humanity.

  2. How many critics are banned? How many just quietly walk away?

  3. Twilight, the story of an immature narcissist, and her manipulation/tease of the nice guy beta wolf, while pining for the hottest badboy in class. How is this bluepill? You can't just claim every romantic comedy is bluepill, just because you're terrified of "oneitis" and "emotional availability". This is the kind of thing that makes the redpill look like teenagers talking shit in the lockerroom.

  4. What about WWE? What about Batman? Serious redpill messages there. Did that brain wash you too?

  5. I'll grant you Super Mario Bros was probably Beta Bux propaganda. Also cuck porn. But what about Streetfighter? Ryu is MGTOW.

[–]GoingSolow[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I'm going to copy and paste from other comments:

I think it may have been a mistake to mention media at the beginning of my post, as that may just result in people nitpicking my examples and ignoring the overall point. What I'm trying to get at with that explanation is that bluepill thinking is the default and it's taught to us at school and through the media. I may make a post about it that specific point another time but I don't think this is the place to expand further on this line of thinking. I don't want us to get too distracted through arguing about media that we end up mot addressing the post in its entirety.

This isn't about people who don't need the redpill, it's about people who found the redpill (either by accident or because they were looking for a change in their life) and applied it. These people either improved their live, or TRP made it worse. I'm saying that there are very few people of which TRP fucked up their lives, because if there were more, we surely would have heard a lot more from them by now?

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It fucked up my life.

But what's the point in talking about it? I'm an outlier. The official TRP line on outliers is "As far as we're concerned, you don't exist."

Even if I throw all my faults up to be torn apart, it won't change a bloody thing.

[–]FairlyNaiveRed Pill DoubleAgent [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Batman

What is red pill message in it?

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Controlling rich handsome dominant alpha gets jacked, knows mind games? Now he's a sex symbol, and even Batgirl can't control herself around him?

Harley and Joker?

[–]FairlyNaiveRed Pill DoubleAgent [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Fair enough. Iron man should also apply then.