全 33 件のコメント

[–]Dabunker 35ポイント36ポイント  (1子コメント)

How is this information known regarding the relationship and killing of the boy from a random war photo? I wonder about this many times with these elaborate stories of war photos.

[–]trem42 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

its on the internet it must be true

[–]sivsta 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

How do we know the story behind this photo is true? It sounds like someone made a grim picture worse by adding commentary of their own.

[–]royrogerer 39ポイント40ポイント  (20子コメント)

Tell me again how the German veterans didn't know what was really going on about the massacre and murder, and just fought for the country. Absolutely disgusting.

Edit: my god I know they are SS. It just really got to me, and made me enraged at the deniers. I am talking about deniers, not just this photo.

[–]Anacoenosis 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

The early executions of Jews were carried out by the regular army (i.e. neither the SS nor the Einsatzgruppen) and the Wehrmacht's readiness suffered as a result: officers quit, some members of the rank-and-file deserted, and there was a sharp uptick in the number of psychological maladies reported.

That led the Nazi Regime to essentially outsource the Final Solution to super fucked up paramilitaries and ideologues and keep the regular army fighting the conventional war.

If you're sincerely interested in this part of WWII history, I'd recommend reading Neighbors and Ordinary Men. It's fascinating and challenging reading, and reckoning with the human capacity for evil should be an essential part of our education.

It's easy to point at something and call it evil, but I think we do the concept of evil a disservice when we make it unique and towering. As Hannah Arendt famously observed, evil is often disappointing. Eichmann proved to be less Sauron and more Willy Loman.

[–]WilliamTake 39ポイント40ポイント  (8子コメント)

Well I'm no history major but I believe the ones who did the murdering and all were the so called Einsatzgruppen who would be deployed after battle to kill off the civilians and while I suspect that rumors may have been flying around to the regular troops, their duties were not to kill civilians. Another thing to add is that it's incredibly difficult to rebel at this kind of stuff, especially when you are in the army and everyone else seems to go with it. Not much you can do really. I'm not defending them or anything but just trying to bring in a historical context.

[–]VentCo 34ポイント35ポイント  (1子コメント)

The Wehrmacht definitely committed some terrible atrocities as well. Especially in the east.

That said, it would feel closed minded and wrong to tell a German person that their grandfather was a monster because he got put on the wrong team in life.

It's almost as if history isn't just black and white.

[–]royrogerer 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes, the Einsatzgruppen were the main force killing civilians, however there are photographic records and so on that shows Pioneers helping dig massive graves. The Wehrmacht definitely also helped out as these jobs take a lot of man power as well.

Also, yes, it is difficult to rebel against them, but there are a lot of bullshit that people say to defend the veterans. I've seen a video where veterans were arguing they were protecting Western Europe from the evil Stalinistic Bolshevism, and they personally did not commit any atrocities, and they were just fighting for the country. Now that's a lot of bullshit for me. You can't say you were defending, if you are the aggressor. Also, there is no way they didn't hear of anything, especially when they were constantly mingling. Also the entire idea was to eradicate inferior race, how do you possibly not think what is happening to them. Yes, brain wash, propaganda, peer pressure. Well if they now know better, they should accept it, not deny it.

In conclusion, my point is criticizing wehraboos, and some veterans avoiding the blame, and relativizating with ridiculous irrelevant arguments. All of this is now history, so it should stay as history, but I won't have idiots in denial right now.

I am sorry, this photo really made me quite mad, I totally understand your point, but after seeing photos like this, I can't agree with them as an explanation.

[–]pissoffa 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You can't say you were defending, if you are the aggressor.

The US did it with Iraq.

Not to give an excuse for their actions but once fighting started, the Russians were equally as barbaric to the Germans. I can see how a soldier who missed the initial invasion of Russia could believe they were justly defending Germany against the evil Russians communists and that "the ends justify the means". When the combination of controlled propaganda and indoctrinated nationalism are combined into the culture it is very hard to convince people they are on the wrong side. No one wants to believes they are the villain.

[–]ReverendSinatra 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean the White Rose existed. Children and students were brave enough to resist well the rest of the country 'couldn't do anything.'

[–]Clovis69 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

In Poland - "Wehrmacht units killed thousands of Polish civilians during the September 1939 campaign through executions and the terror bombing of cities. Any act of defiance was met with the most ruthless violence, although the Army leadership did seek to discourage so-called "wild" shootings where Wehrmacht troops would indiscriminately shoot all Poles on their own initiative. Court martial proceedings were begun against some of the junior officers who had led these shootings, but this was nullified on October 4, 1939, when Hitler pardoned all military personnel who had been involved in war crimes in Poland."

"After the end of hostilities, during the Wehrmacht's administration of Poland, which went on until October 25, 1939, 531 towns and villages were burned; the Wehrmacht carried out 714 mass executions, alongside many incidents of plunder, banditry and murder. Altogether, it is estimated that 16,376 Poles fell victim to these atrocities."

"Numerous examples exist in which Polish soldiers were killed after capture; for instance, at Śladów, where 252 prisoners of war (POW)s were shot or drowned, at Ciepielów, where some 300 POWs were killed, and at Zambrów, where a further 300 were killed. Polish POWs of Jewish origin were routinely selected and shot on the spot."

600 civilians and POWs executed by Wehrmacht in Belgium

The 707th division of the Wehrmacht shoot 10,431 people out of the 19,940 it had detained during an anti-partisan sweep while suffering only two dead and five wounded in the process.

Thousands of Soviet female nurses, doctors and field medics fell victim to rape when captured, and were often murdered afterwards.

There were at least 10,000,000 Soviet women raped by the German military with at least 1 million of them being children.

[–]honeycakes 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

For evil to thrive it only takes good men to do nothing.

[–]Curiousferrets 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wish I could give that little boy a cuddle. Evil, evil bastards.

[–]Thyrotoxic 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

They did. The clean Wehrmacht is a common myth. Common soldiers knew exactly what was going on and regularly took part in atrocities. Their opinions of the Polish and Russian people mirror Nazi propaganda, they're viewed as disgusting, dirty, subhumans.

War without Garlands by Robert Kershaw is a pretty excellent book on the initial opinions of Wehrmacht troops towards the Russians.

[–]Jack1998blue 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

by SS members

Reading is hard.

[–]1707BestYearOfMyLife 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Try reading the title for fuck's sake.

[–]chess_the_cat 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're confusing the SS and the Wehrmacht. OP has indicated this is the SS. The SS were dyed in the wool Nazis. The Wehrmacht not so much.

[–]thrillmatic -3ポイント-2ポイント  (3子コメント)

The worst part about this is that, for Ukrainians, succumbing to the Nazis was the better choice of two options: Likely death by the Nazis with a small percentage chance of survival if you're lucky enough to get sent to a work camp versus certain death from Soviet enforced starvation.

[–]snowmyr 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

What? The holodomor ended in 1933.

[–]gofsckyourself 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't believe you're quite right. You're gonna have to provide a source.