上位 200 件のコメント全て表示する 425

[–]SaintVanilla 528ポイント529ポイント  (75子コメント)

"No, he said gottage. Keep looking. Maybe it's behind that small country house."

[–]UTC_Hellgate 105ポイント106ポイント  (11子コメント)

"Ew, this isn't a Gottage at all, it's a Shateau!"

[–]Taikwin 28ポイント29ポイント  (8子コメント)

"Looks more like a manchion to me, m'lord."

[–]Tabe12[S] 188ポイント189ポイント  (54子コメント)

Player: "What on earth is a gottage?"

Npc: "Nevermind the gottage, its behind it."

Player: "But I need to know what it is."

Npc: "Off you go!"

[–]Happymartin254 127ポイント128ポイント  (52子コメント)

Yeah let the /v/ elitists say what they will. I'll take a big arrow pointing the way to get the quest done, rather than figure out a convoluted cryptic message to look for something I have no idea the identity of.

[–]aslatts 127ポイント128ポイント  (24子コメント)

Eh, it's a trade off.

Making the quest too convoluted to follow makes it less fun because it's needlessly difficult to just get where I need to be.

Constantly giving me a big arrow pointing at the Next Relevant Object removes any sense of exploration and discovery, resulting in players metally checking out and going on autopilot.

Both have a place, and ideally a game knows what is more appropriate for the situation.

[–]nc863id 49ポイント50ポイント  (4子コメント)

Way I see it is that I can go off exploring whenever I so choose. But if I need to put the game down for a while because real life decides to intrude, it's a lot easier for me to come back to it and go "oh yeah, that's what I was doing" if I don't have to first wade through 50 pages of journal entries to find the vague directions a generic NPC gave me last week.

[–]MiskyWilkshake 34ポイント35ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'd rather the best of both worlds: No quest markers, but a clearly organised quest journal so that you can pull up the relevant information at a moment's notice.

[–]BCProgramming 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was wandering around the first dwemer ruin for an hour trying to find the fucking door before I said fuck it and gave up. "Is this the door? Fuck, maybe it is. Maybe there's a switch? hmm, or maybe it isn't the door. Is that the door? No... wait hmm maybe it could be a door? Oh nevermind a cliffracer killed me again

[–]AAA1374 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

My ideal system is a bit difficult to explain, but I'll give it a shot:

Basically, when you receive the quest, you get a description and a direction to go in. It marks the direction automatically on the compass, and you can use your journal to check the description to see if you are headed to the right spot.

Once close enough (relative to the quest, location, event, etc) a marker will pop up on the map to mark it semipermanently (until no longer necessary) so you can return to it, or avoid it if you wish to explore the area more.

Just my ideal mix of the two. Morrowind was fantastic because of all the vague directions and exploration, but it can so easily make a game feel padded as if it were empty without that forced exploration. On the other hand, those markers break immersion so much that it just kinda kills me- sure the line is, "let me mark it on your map," and it makes sense, but it's not as interesting. It doesn't make me adventure, it just makes me fast travel to the nearest point unless I force myself to actually take the time to get there.

[–]whitetrafficlight 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

The problem is that it's usually possible to accept many quests at once. When you go to a town, you take care of business: you visit the shop to sell all your worthless crap and repair your equipment, you talk to anyone who'll give you a quest, and you turn in whatever quests you have that you've completed. Then you decide what quest to do next, based on a combination of the "suggested level" and how close the objective is to you. For all the quests you didn't decide to do immediately, you've already forgotten the directions given, and you're probably not in a place where the directions are going to be helpful even if you did remember them.

As a notable exception, the Bleak Falls Barrow in Skyrim does this right. There is one quest to accept when you first get to Riverwood, and after accepting it, the shopkeeper's wife takes you to the edge of town and points it out, nestled within view in the mountains. Even if you don't go there immediately, the story forces you to go there very shortly afterwards anyway if you haven't already been there, while it's still fresh in your mind.

But after that, you end up with 10 major quests and 20 miscellaneous objectives to take care of for the rest of the game and quest markers become a necessity again.

[–]Inquisitor1 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

Why have an arrow? Why not just teleport you to the location. Hell why have a quest, why not just have a button you can press and immediately win the quest?

[–]redditerator7 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

Why have any visuals at all? It should be all text.

[–]PremiumBaka 19ポイント20ポイント  (3子コメント)

Welcome to Skyrim

Thank you for playing Skyrim

[–]Harry101UK 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

/talk to npc

NPC attacks you

/You die

/Thank you for playing Skyrim.

/Try again? Y/N

/N

[–]Hefferfudger300 5ポイント6ポイント  (7子コメント)

That sounds so boring, easy, and mindless though. Following directions was never that hard

[–]Sebilis 21ポイント22ポイント  (6子コメント)

yeah say that to "Its in a cave along this road" when there are 5 caves and apparently none of them are the right one. spent about 3 hours before I gave up on the vong questline in morrowind.

[–]evileyeball 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You must have found the chicken nuggets before finding the gold nugget. Maybe you didn't notice the Funny Cactus

[–]SuperWeskerSniper 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm playing KOTOR now. Gives exactly zero quest markers of any kind. Not too hard honestly

[–]jszko 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

Possibly because it's entirely linear and doesn't allow you to go anywhere you're not supposed to?

[–]Tyler_Trash 46ポイント47ポイント  (3子コメント)

Darks Souls: Go ring a bell.

[–]LongswordFanboii 18ポイント19ポイント  (1子コメント)

Jokes on you! There are 2! The second being in a hellhole guarded by BestGirl and the scum of humanity

[–]TheStrongestRegular 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Don't forget she's immune to fire and there is a shortcut that literally takes 20 seconds to get down and walk to her, but chances are you took the infuriating toxin filled long way that leads to an area on the other side of the map!

[–]Auctoritate 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Go ring a bell at a high place.

Oh, and there's another one in a low place.

And then you're on your own.

[–]someguyinahat 268ポイント269ポイント  (41子コメント)

OP has never played Daggerfall, where you ask people where something is, and if they know, they'll just mark it on your map.

[–]Robborboy 101ポイント102ポイント  (10子コメント)

To be fair it took a literal week to walk from one side of the map the the other.

[–]someguyinahat 132ポイント133ポイント  (9子コメント)

And in that week it's very possible you'd see nothing.

[–]wozowski 34ポイント35ポイント  (7子コメント)

Wait, really? I've known Daggerfall had the biggest map in gaming for some time, but I always figured it was your average adventure game density in regards to combat.

[–]someguyinahat 88ポイント89ポイント  (1子コメント)

in regards to combat.

Okay, there might be random encounters, but let's not mistake that for content.

[–]Gabe_b 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes. And it's being ported to Unity, with near infinite view distances. Well above vanilla Morrowind. It's even got a bit of a modding scene already - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXKa4H9_F-0 .

[–]Pimpinabox 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you managed to expertly avoid everything, yeah sure.

[–]SpecificallyGeneral 31ポイント32ポイント  (16子コメント)

How come there's never any Arena love?

It was crazy amazing when it came out, and the make your own spells? Daaaaang.

[–]EdgarAllenPorn 35ポイント36ポイント  (13子コメント)

You could make your own spells in morrowind. Summon 8 bone walkers for 30 seconds!!!!

[–]ripghoti 86ポイント87ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ah, the old "Freshman Girl Enters Frat House" spell.

[–]BurnieTheBrony 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

Easiest way to level destruction was to make a burn self for something weak like 10 damage spell. And you can RP as a masochist or something too

[–]hoochyuchy 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

I did that in Oblivion as well. I would also train acrobatics and athletics at the same time all while filling out markers on my map. So, I ended up being a freaky wanderer hiking through the forests and mountains, constantly setting myself on fire and jumping around like an idiot.

[–]hwarming 9ポイント10ポイント  (7子コメント)

And in Oblivion, albeit tweaked from Morrowind to make things a little less broken.

[–]Mosqeeto 29ポイント30ポイント  (5子コメント)

And in Oblivion, albeit tweaked from Morrowind to make things a little less fun.

fixed.

[–]StrugglingIdiot 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

Like combining a fireball spell with burden, so all your enemies can just sit still helplessly and watch you melt their faces away.... good times man, good times.

[–]Asunen 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

command humanoid 20 - 25 Pts 60 Seconds

Shield 25 Pts 60 Seconds.

now just sit back and watch the bandit murder his friends.

[–]kazfiel 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

100% chameleon enchanting gear.

[–]MiiNiPaa 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

vulnerability to fire 100 -  1 second  
          fire damage 100 -  1 second  
         invisibility     - 30 seconds  

Stealth destruction

[–]Bryvin 10ポイント11ポイント  (3子コメント)

Just like the settlement that needs our help. I'll mark it on your map for you.

[–]someguyinahat 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

I haven't played Fallout 4 yet. I'll just wait for the complete edition, since I bought vanilla New Vegas (and Skyrim) and now I can't buy the ultimate editions.

[–]CaptHorney 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

I wish I had your self-restraint. I bought Oblivion 4 times. Once on PC when it came out. Once on XBox 360 when I had that. Then I got rid of the 360 and got it on PS3. Then I bought the 5th year special edition.....

Bethesda gets just so much of my money...

[–]basicislands 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Daggerfall

[–]someguyinahat 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, my mind was on Skyrim. Changed it now. My bad.

[–]abroane 14ポイント15ポイント  (3子コメント)

They didn't always tell you. Sometimes they just gave a direction like "I think it is a little further south from here" answers sometimes depended on your personality and standing with commoners. It was a lot more complex then just oh here is a quest I'll mark exactly were you need to go. Even though I said I didn't really know where it was

[–]someguyinahat 18ポイント19ポイント  (2子コメント)

Sometimes they just gave a direction like "I think it is a little further south from here" answers sometimes depended on your personality and standing with commoners.

You could keep asking and they'd eventually mark your map. It was random percentage. :)

[–]MajorMajorObvious 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

Townsperson: "Geez, this guy won't stop bothering me..."

[–]Datkif 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Better mark a random spot on the map

[–]mkul316 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Which makes a lot of sense. I want you to go there for me, but I won't tell you where that is so you may or may not do what I want. This never made any sense to me.

[–]Gotcha-Bitcrl 204ポイント205ポイント  (25子コメント)

Am I the only one who walks towards the quest marker exploring anything that looks cool on the way?

Seems everyone thinks anyone that likes quest makers just walk straight to the spot not taking time to enjoy the game.

[–]BruceSillyWalks 94ポイント95ポイント  (9子コメント)

This is the value in a No-Fast-Travel run

[–]carpet111 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not fun for me, im an impatient prick

[–]DiamondSentinel 24ポイント25ポイント  (6子コメント)

I only use fast travel to get to Solstheim in Skyrim. Otherwise I walk everywhere. I just love the random encounters and ambiance.

[–]NYbeast 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

My friend and I do this thing where he watches me play Skyrim over Skype or something similar. Everytime I decide to walk it's an experience since I don't know what anything is yet. On one walk that wasn't very long I found a puzzle, tried to piss of giants and mammoths, and wandered into a dragon perch that I thought was part of Labrynthian, ended up running my horse off a cliff and had to reload. A ton of fun, especially since the loading screens annoy me to no end.

[–]Spank_hamma 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

If you are on pc, there's a mod that makes the loading screens hilarious and smart ass. I can't remember what it's called right now, but it makes then infinitely better.

[–]thetexasneck 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I do the same thing. But I also fast travel from Dragonsreach to the Whiterun stables if I don't have to sell anything. I never buy Breezehome anyways.

[–]hidora 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I actually only found out there was a fast travel system when I was lv50 already on Skyrim. I am not a smart man.

On the bright side, that first playthrough was lots of fun because of that. Now I'm too lazy to do a no fast travel run.

[–]Scrummycakes 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I remember one of the most frustrating experiences I ever had in gaming was actually in Morrowind. An NPC gave directions to a cave I needed to go to, and I followed the directions explicitly, no cave. It took me half an hour before I looked it up in a walkthrough... and got the exact same directions. I ended up searching the Ashlands for a good long time before I finally found the cave. Its entirely possible that I had a brain lapse for a moment and I just couldn't find my way, but quest markers remove that possibility almost entirely (Some games' quest markers are so bad I still can't find my way there). I'd rather a bad game have quest markers, than try to be a great game like Morrowind and have me try to figure it out only to meander a literal desert for hours.

A good game always distracts and pulls me away from quest markers to explore the world, like Fallout New Vegas. A bad game makes me want to teleport to each story mission as quickly as possible so I can play something else, like Dragon Age 2.

Edit: That sentence was worded a little poorly, I never meant to say that Morrowind is a bad game pretending it's good. It's an amazing game and a classic, one of my top 5 honestly.

[–]SadisticUnicorn 20ポイント21ポイント  (2子コメント)

Easy fix people. All Bethesda need to do is add directions into the next Elder Scrolls game and give you the option to turn quest markers on and off. Best of both worlds. I'm pretty surprised there isn't a Skyrim mod (though there probably is) that does this already.

[–]CHAMPANERIA 46ポイント47ポイント  (13子コメント)

played morrowind when i was like 12, was amazing lost 400 hours each city different from the next. when i found the shoes to walk on water i was a god and i jumped everywhere to get agility up.

[–]Tabe12[S] 16ポイント17ポイント  (11子コメント)

OOooh, acrobatics was the greatest thing in Morrowind. Parkouring was so much fun.

[–]GuyThatPostsStuff 31ポイント32ポイント  (8子コメント)

That's what I miss most about The Elder Scrolls, but specifically Morrowind.
When you became a Master at any skill (other than weapons/armor), you became a MASTER.
Spend untold hours jumping to increase Acrobatics to 100?
Congrats, you can now jump over large trees and small mountains!
Constantly running/swimming and end up with Athletics of 100?
Now you can travel at the speed of sound!

[–]redditnamegenerater 7ポイント8ポイント  (6子コメント)

Find a strong magic resist potion? Congratulations! The boots of blinding speed will increase your speed by 200 and are on a super easy opponent'

[–]GuyThatPostsStuff 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

"On a super easy opponent"
...or you could escort her...
...and not kill her...

[–]gordth 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

What are you, in love with that NPC?

[–]redditnamegenerater 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Do you get the boots if you don't kill her? I thought you had to kill her for the boots.

Edit: Spelling

[–]GuyThatPostsStuff 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

Nah, that's the reward you get for completing her quest.
She tells you that she doesn't have any money on her, but she does have some enchanted boots called "The Boots of Blinding Speed".
I was an Argonian though, so...

[–]Ruamzunzl 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The best was to become this thief Vampire after maxing acrobatics. It raised it to 130 iirc. You could basically fly and shoot enemies with arrows, while in the air..

[–]velektrian027 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Parkouring? I think you mean jumping entire cities and mountains because you cant be fucked running through or around.

[–]Azonata 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I often wonder if it was amazing precisely because we were 12 and had nothing better to do with our time. These days I rarely have time to clock in an hour a day, let alone hundreds of hours just to explore a single city. Different lives attract different games.

[–]lizard_wings 319ポイント320ポイント  (50子コメント)

I love quest markers. When I feel like exploring, I'll just go explore. But after hours of wandering, and I'd ready to finally do the damn quest I just want to find the damn quest - not wander in circles more.

[–]Parrek 29ポイント30ポイント  (8子コメント)

I like a mix or both. At the very least, I want those instructions written down somewhere easy to find in game so I can reference them.

[–]MemeLovingTrash 22ポイント23ポイント  (7子コメント)

my favorite is the "it's somewhere in here" area markers so you have to search in a small area for the dungeon, NPC, etc. This way it isn't like your character has some weird ESP and knows 100% exactly where something is the second it's existence is mentioned to him/her.

[–]nosandwiches 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

This is the best compromise of the two. Back when Skyrim first came out my roommate was watching me play and saw this exact thing happen. Walk through long cave to find a necklace (think it was mage's first quest). Like this is an archaeological dig that on one has ever been into before. How did he know where it was? Kinda ruins the whole "Exploring" thing...

[–]AnOnlineHandle 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think the original Thief series did it pretty well. Garrett would sometimes buy a map of the estate from a worker or whatever, and on some levels you had a lot to work with, and other times it was nearly entirely unknown or filled in loosely as you went. It gave a nice variety.

[–]ParanoidAltoid 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

This still doesn't help with large-scale exploring though. I'd like to see a solution for that. In Fallout 4, I left the quest marker off when finding Diamond City. Rather than just bee lining it to the quest marker, I followed the advice of "Go south". Felt like so much more fulfilling of an experience; I really felt like a guy navigating his way through a wasteland.

[–]Parrek 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, I like those too. Maybe a trail you have to follow to find the area. The Witcher did it pretty well IMO. A lot of "Follow the trail of blood and such" and "here's the area" and it felt much more natural. Also, it was rare that you were expected to know about a location you hadn't visited before.

[–]spankymuffin 73ポイント74ポイント  (20子コメント)

I don't love them, but as an adult with a full-time job... I don't have the time or the patience for the alternative.

[–]megatom0 2ポイント3ポイント  (19子コメント)

I do love them because I am an adult with a fulltime job. Quest markers are the best fucking thing to happen to gaming ever. I'm sorry but this kind of thing that OP posted was just bullshit. Unless you were treating your gaming like you were taking a fucking class making excessive notes and whatnot, this kind of thing was just infuriating. Half the time the games wouldn't even save important hints for you or anything like that. Look at like Simon's Quest or the Original 2 Zelda games. Just bullshit frankly. People who like this are sociopaths and should be fucking locked up.

[–]Odkin 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

I guess you never played the classic Ultima 3 or 4; or Infocom text adventures, where you not only had to write EVERYTHING down, but you had to draw your own maps on graph paper. No mini-map, no "quest journal", no nothin'. And they were great.

[–]Tesrab 28ポイント29ポイント  (8子コメント)

People who like this are sociopaths and should be fucking locked up.

This is like saying people who enjoy a book over a movie version of a story are sociopaths.

Sometimes it's about the journey and not the instant gratification of just do it now.

[–]Hemmer83 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

You should actually look up simons quest. The avgn video is a decent one.

Its not about the journey, its about extremely difficult to find areas that halt your progress.

[–]Jiveturkei 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think we all already agree that Simons Quest was very poorly done. It is only one example of doing the text only directions badly. Morrowind could have fixed their issue with directions by making the journal more streamlined or categorized rather than random entries that you have to go back and find.

[–]KnightofNi92 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Or, hear me out, they like to gasp role play in a role playing game.

[–]BeefSerious 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

You sound like an asshole. Probably are, too.

[–]BurnieTheBrony 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know there's some part of my brain that thinks that when I break out the pen and paper, I'm really getting into a game. I use notes all the time to help me make armor sets in Monster Hunter, and it makes me feel accomplished and intelligent.

I guess what I'm saying is a certain level of depth can be enjoyable and too much hand holding can become boring. But as with everything, there's middle ground between "go straight to this arrow" and "here's some weird ass instructions that don't make sense and will make you get lost"

[–]Taskforcem85 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think that both are needed. Some people really want to RP in an RPG. The game should be able to cater to both especially with the budget Bethesda has.

[–]Endulos 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

I love quest markers too. Morrowind was kind of bull shit, because there were a number of quests that just flat out gave you incorrect information.

I can think of 2 examples.

  1. A quest for House Redoran has you locate a farm. The NPC tells you it's right along the road going west. This is a lie. The house is actually west, then you take a path that doesn't look like a path north, which circles around to the east and you arrive at the farm.
  2. There's a quest involving a glass merchant who got robbed by a bunch of bandits. He can patrol a rather lengthy stretch of the road. When you talk to him about it, he just tells you the cave the bandits fled to is directly to the east (Or maybe west, I forget). This is a lie because it's actually east, then a little south IF you talk to him where he STARTS his patrol route, then it's east and a lot south depending on where you catch him.

[–]dalalphabet 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

They're just making the game ultra realistic. After all, who hasn't gotten bad directions in their lifetime, am I right? /s

[–]letionbard 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, If someone give me direction like morrowind in RL, I will say "Ah! Just mark it on my map!"

[–]nefariouspenguin 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Clearly you haven't asked a Mexican for directions before.

[–]AshenPOE 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I hate them only if there is not sufficient information to find the objective without them. If I can pick and choose, that is good game design because I usually do not want to spend hours tracking down some random npc who isn't where they should be but for most other things I don't want to omnisciently know where to go.

[–]ominousgraycat 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Actually, "Head down to the dock and he'll show you to the census office." was that line ;)

But I know what you mean.

[–]Darkkiddo 48ポイント49ポイント  (2子コメント)

sorry, i think you did it wrong, it should be vague directions that end up getting you lost if you miss the small detail that they mix in their story.

[–]diamondflaw 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Or if you neglect to notice that bit of bolder text to click on which allows for continued conversation that actually tells you the rest of the quest objectives.

[–]alekzander01 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Am I the only one who didn't have any issues most of the time? Even the infamous Mudcrabs west of here directions worked for me (they were literally west of there, just walk west). Skyrim was actually my first TES Game and it took a few tries for me to get into Morrowind, but now that I cracked the initial challenge it has become so much fun.

[–]farfang 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Getting directions IRL, then vs. now"

Fucking casuals.

[–]Max_TwoSteppen 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

I wish they'd mark stuff where the quest giver knows, and not other shit.

"Go to this fortress and kill a particular bandit leader" should get a quest marker.

"My necklace was stolen and I have no idea where it is!" shouldn't.

[–]vtastek 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Morrowind marks stuff on map like all the time. Some didn't even play the game enough to know this but likes to complain anyway.

[–]saget84 88ポイント89ポイント  (27子コメント)

I hate this argument. I went back and beat the main storyline in Morrowind and honestly without extensive use of the wiki and other online sources I would never have went through with it. The directions are often non-specific and downright terrible, and I can honestly see how figuring out where to go and what to do would eat up a good chunk of my game time for the day. Wandering around aimlessly to find a cave door that looks like every other door that is nestled away somewhere inconspicuous is frankly not fun at all. I'll take the hit on the immersion side to avoid all of that pain. I understand why hardcore gamers dislike the system but at this point I think it's a fact of life that gaming is trending toward a more casual audience, like it or not.

[–]megatom0 35ポイント36ポイント  (6子コメント)

Thank god there is someone fucking reasonable on this thread. Fuck the directions in Morrowind, simply fuck them. And honestly I don't like playing a game with a guide or having to watch videos to get to the next part. I don't have time to waste 4 hours just wondering around like a dipshit trying to find where to go next, and thus I don't. Quest markers are the best fucking thing, it is like a game guide but in the fucking game.

[–]SpongebobNutella[🍰] 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

but... muh immersion!

[–]eden_sc2 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

mate, we got irl quest markers. Even before GPS, I would take a map and highlight my route for trips.

[–]The_Thylacine 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

Morrowind is by far my favorite TES game, but shit, I agree. You'd think quest givers would be kind enough to at least mark the location on your map, but apparently everyone in the country is a cunt.

[–]mcketten 15ポイント16ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yep. I started TES with Daggerfall and when it comes to user interface and interaction, Morrowind was my least favorite because it became a chore.

Countless times of returning to the same character to re-read the directions and see if there was another dialog option to help. Stopping and talking to every same-sounding NPC in hopes one of them had something else to help.

Days later, after giving up, you stumble on the quest itself and accidentally complete it and only know you did because your quest updates.

Now, who gave me this quest again?

You know what is really telling about this conversation? That people are downvoting others for not liking the style of a specific system in a specific game in a series. If you are so threatened by a contrary opinion on a video game mechanic, then the problem is you, not the game. There is something fundamentally wrong with you.

[–]crazed3raser 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Everyone has their preferences but I don't really remember ever having a problem finding stuff in that game.

[–]audioB 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

I find this really confusing.. I went back and played Morrowind last year, didn't use the wiki or any resources and didn't really struggle that much to find anything. Whenever I couldn't find something immediately, it's not like it was annoying or tedious or anything.

[–]hwarming 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah I much rather get lost and have to dig through a confusing and often badly worded journal.

[–]Victor_Zsasz 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can understand why some people find it fun to complete a puzzle without looking at the picture. I'd personally never do this, as the additional cost in time and frustration simply isn't worth the slight increase in satisfaction, but I can see how people can draw additional enjoyment from increasing the amount of work they have to do to achieve the same goals.

[–]chenthechin 37ポイント38ポイント  (6子コメント)

Yes those lovely times of searching 10 hours for a cairn that looks like 20 others in roughly the same direction over an ever increasing area thanks to vague and shitty "directions" by npcs.

Thats not challenging, not engaging, not immersive, thats a waste of time, boring and a certain immersion breaker when you either have to turn of the pc because you havve real life stuff to do and cant spend 10 hours searching for a shitty quest target since you have a life with responsibilities, or because you have to do something else because you are about to throw the pc out of the window. There is a difference between exploring and searching the same area of the size of the red mountain for the 20th time milimeter for milimeter although you could swear you already saw every single pixle of it but by some freak luck you just miss the cairn entrance (maybe because you are already so tired and bored from the search that you just look over it).

Nobody forces you to walk a straight line to the quest marker. Nobody forces you to use quick travel. Nobody forces you to stop exploring your way there. I did it always that way in Skyrim, and when i got fed up i had a good way to continue the quest.

Why are so many gamers of my generation senile? Dreaming up some bullshit about heroic discoveries of secrets that never happened instead of remembering searching square meter for square meter while being assaulted by fucking cliff racers on every third step.

[–]megatom0 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

Thats not challenging, not engaging, not immersive, thats a waste of time, boring and a certain immersion breaker when you either have to turn of the pc because you havve real life stuff to do and cant spend 10 hours searching for a shitty quest target since you have a life with responsibilities

Or even fucking worse having to minimize the game to read through some guide that doesn't give good directions, or trying to find a fucking video where some asshole talks for 20 goddamn minutes then you skip around to try to find the one piece of information you need to know and he skips over that in like 1 second so you sit there and watch 5 minutes of this fucking prick talk just to hear what to do next. Then you go back to the game finally find whatever fucking piece of shit you were looking for then end up getting lost again at the next thing. Rinse and repeat until you have a mental break and murder your whole family go to jail and never get to play the game again. Very immersion breaking.

With quest markers it actually kind of gives you the game guide you need to do the quest but gives a lore friendly reason why it is there (let me mark it on your map). Simply, fuck OP and fuck anyone who agrees with this mother fucking bullshit. I am SO FUCKING GLAD for quest markers these days, games are actually fucking fun to play and not a goddamn chore. And any other douche who says "exploring is my way of having fun" can chug some fucking bleach. You are an anachronism and you might as well stop fucking playing games because quest markers are here to stay.

[–]gutari 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

Morrowind's quest directions were actually awful tho.

[–]imojo141 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I remember running around that Red Mountain for fuckin ever looking for where I was supposed to go.

[–]eL_daYa 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I prefer now,

[–]beach_boy91 16ポイント17ポイント  (4子コメント)

It felt much more immersive back then, but then again you could just turn of HUD.

[–]Pepsi04 26ポイント27ポイント  (3子コメント)

And get nowhere. Directions/informations provided by npc's are not enough to figure out, where you need to go or what to do

[–]beach_boy91 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, sadly, I only meant that it's as close as we get nowadays.

[–]dnksfrthmmrs 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

if you're on PC there's the better quest objectives mod that does basically that

[–]EtrianOddity 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

As a serious suggestion, do a run without quests.

I got a bunch of mods to disable HUD and give better signs, maps, etc. and just sort of wandered.

It was excellent.

[–]erraticerror 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

This is where I am at the gottage, yelling at the map screen.

"My left or your left?"

"MY LEFT OR YOUR LEFT?"

But I already know. It's always near the cliffracers.

[–]Form84 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

I remember the quest in Morrowind to meet Azura. It was literally something like, go into this cave on the North side of the mountain where the 2 stars shine brightest in the sky or some shit like that, TOOK ME 2 WEEKS. I had a fucking notepad just to triangulate the location of that damn cave. Beating a dark souls boss has literally NOTHING on finding that cave.

[–]myto_alkoreath 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

That was the moment I embraced our one true god the coc command.

Seriously, that quest can go to hell.

[–]megatom0 20ポイント21ポイント  (9子コメント)

No, fuck this circle jerk. The obtuse quality of giving directions and game design in old games is a fucking joke. It is awful, you would spend hours just wondering around trying to figure shit out when the directions like this were just bullshit. Give me quest markers, give me directional paths give me all of that shit. Don't act like wasting 2 hours just to figure out where you are going is a fucking feature because it isn't. It is just archaic game design. It cuts out the fat. And I know you will all respond "but I like being a dildo who wastes 200 hours on a game just wondering around and getting nothing done" well fine, fuck you, I don't like being frustrated by not progressing.

[–]Trickmaahtrick 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Playing the first mass effect again, holy fucking shit nothing quashes the drive to play like having to speedwalk aimlessly around the citadel trying to figure out where to go.

[–]ShaxAjax 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

AND THE MAKO, DON'T FORGET THAT SHITBIRD.

[–]byzantinebobby 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I remember reading a guide on gamefaqs for Morrowind where it said to follow the cairns to get to something. I was like "Oh, okay." and followed the cairns. Later I was looking something up in the same guide and in the FAQs section, the first question was "What is a cairn?" Apparently there are enough Elder Scrolls players to not realize that they could use the same Internet connection that got them to the guide to look up a word in a dictionary.

[–]4609203 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Let me make it on you MAP"

[–]toekneeg 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank the Lords for quest markers.

[–]ShadowXJ 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Classic RPG design, even in Final Fantasy XI there was never a single map quest marker, you had to figure it out. Of course eventually this just meant I started playing the game with a Wiki open. :(

[–]GaryMobile 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

  • Then and Now.

[–]thatonefagben 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, I wish there was a way to turn the quest markers off in Skyrim... Wait

[–]Ryulightorb 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

and i will take the newer way before the old way any day.

I hated the directions they gave. I would rather quest markers any day then that shit.

[–]vadergeek 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

And thank goodness for that. There are many things in video games that I think are fun, 'getting lost and trying to find landmarks" is not one of them.

[–]sturmblast 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I actually liked it better when you had to think about it

[–]I_hate_kids_too 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Role Playing Game.

Crazy Taxi.

Pick one.

[–]ehdottoman 6ポイント7ポイント  (17子コメント)

I wish they would bring that back, this Hud marker stuff makes it boring, you just chase a marker all the time.

[–]Morgoth_the_DM 20ポイント21ポイント  (8子コメント)

It's all a matter of opinion and perspective. Some people (you and I among them) would rather have the exploration and investigation element of trying to locate quest objectives on your own with only instructions to guide you. Others would just find it annoying and inconvenient, and would prefer to get on with the quest.

I'd like more open-world games to have viable options for both.

[–]Robborboy 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Solution: Morrowind style quests with a maker you can disable.

[–]Morgoth_the_DM 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, yeah, that's pretty much what I'm saying

[–]ehdottoman 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

It seems to me that all the open world games now are like that now though, it's just way point to way point. And even if you do decide to just go exploring or stop playing for a while and pick it back up everything is still laid out for you. Kind of takes the open world aspect out of it for me.

[–]Bean03 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

I think that quest markers should just be off by default. Give all the details and everything when you pick up the quest(Go south to the waterfall, turn left, etc) then if the player wants they can turn on the marker.

This way people who want story get it and aren't pestered by UI elements immediately. Anyone who just wants to follow waypoints can toggle them on.

[–]Soulreaper31152 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Or make an in game mechanic that has to do with magic that finds the location you were heading to OR makes you follow it, but can isn't 100% accurate

[–]Ru_OKay 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

The funny thing is, they did have a spell in Skyrim that did exactly that, Clairvoyance. It's was like they had it all planned out, but decided it was better to give people markers on a map, and made it a meaningless spell.

[–]bhanel 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

These sorts of instructions are why I never got far in Morrowind. It was all too vague. I prefer the waypoint system personally, it makes it easier to put aside one quest for a short time and do another. I still have a great time traveling to places: Climbing mountains, fighting trolls, getting side tracked and following the Headless Horseman. It just makes it easier for me to get back on track when I feel like getting back to business.

That said, I do see the appeal for the disuse of the waypoint and dependence on directions. I think there's room for both options. A hardcore mode maybe?

[–]UTC_Hellgate 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

HUD Markers are like Fast Travel, They're convenient when they're in the game, but anytime I've been able to Mod them out..the game becomes a heck of a lot more fun.

Ultima Underworlds mapping system was nice, the map autofilled the layout, but you had to mark in manually any areas of interest you wanted to keep.

and now I'm re-installing Underworld.

[–]Vendetta1990 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

And maybe a good story would be nice also.

[–]ehdottoman 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

Everyone is all about the dovakihn but some of us still remember the neravarine.

[–]EtrianOddity 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Arvel Plantation remembers.

[–]mcjodice 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

I hate that people complain about this, considering the markers are optional. Sometimes I use them, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I enjoy the uncertainty and adventure, sometimes I just need to get shit done. Playing Morrowind in the past week, the directions can be tedious. Me looking at the map in the menus and then at my minimap as I walk and then my physical map to find territories can be frustrating. Morrowind hasn't aged as well as people act like it has. Not to say that its a bad game, it's fantastic and the setting is mesmerizing even after a decade, but people act like its untouchable and Skyrim is some sacrilegious casual lite-version of the ES series. As someone who started with Daggerfall and was a big fan of it (though I didn't play it as much as some of the later Ultima DOS titles), I enjoyed Skyrim more than any western RPG I've ever played. I feel like as a sequel it did what it needed to and more, taking what was good about Morrowind and Oblivion and streamlining it into something just as fun and expansive an not as unnecessarily frustrating as the last two, as an RPG had an almost overwhelming amount of elasticity and catered to many playstyles, and as a game was an immersive experience thoroughly. I will never understand why some Elder Scrolls fans complain about it.There seems to be this connotation that complexity means quality and that if a sequel to any game is less complex than the last, that's a bad thing. Fortunately, that's not true, as developers learn what works and what doesn't through experience, and cut out portions that lack necessity. Bethesda has done this marvelously, but we bitch like ungrateful children for anything that we don't like about someone else's creation, as if to anger over the Mona Lisa's lack of smile. If we wanted a game not to make changes in it's sequels, then why warrant a sequel? If a developer doesn't shake up a formula a bit, then us whining bitches call them uncreative and complain for not cleaning up the non-necessities. If developers remove non-necessities, we cry over the tainting of something godly. Every sequel ever released to any gets an insane amount of backlash from certain fans whether the game is good or not over SOMETHING, and we criticize its lack of quality in comparison to its predecessor, until the next in the series releases, and then we move on to criticizing the newest one while we refer to the last one we bitched about so much as godly and flawless. If art catered to the fantasies and preferences of it's patrons perfectly, there would be no point in art, as we can experience our preferences and fantasies in the recesses of our minds and never have to experience art to amuse us. Sorry, this got way beyond the Skyrim marker system. I just harbor contempt for the negative demeanor of the entitled community of gamers. People are way too spoiled and are unable to act like normal human beings when something doesn't go their way these days. I don't understand how people get millions of dollars and years of time poured into their games these days when there were people at one time who were satisfied and grateful for 3 moving dots on a screen in the recent past.

[–]mcjodice 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

In fact, if we are going to act like pretentious children in this thread, technically Skyrim can be the most hard core in terms of directions. How bout look at the marker on your map after you get it, find its direction on your compass, turn off the marker, and go in the general direction. Quite fun, and yes, it's no more a casual way of looking for directions than Morrowind's, as you could also find the location the character told you on your world map and go that direction on the world map with your minimap. In fact, I do this, as Morrowind's directions are rather unreliable sometimes and are easier just looking it up with the resources the game gives to you. People seem to be mad that the option exists, but you can turn it off if you don't need it, and if you want it, turn it on. It's like getting mad that your car has a GPS because it's more fun to have a passenger with a map, and crying and whining when you can just turn off the damn thing, and the people who want it can use it. No harm done. It's almost as if people don't want the less-RPG savvy people playing RPGs because it diminished their bragging points if there is a much more accessible way for other people to do it, making their sense of gaming-self worth lesser, and it's not about the actual game at all.

[–]nocturnaltsunami 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I liked that in "hardcore" RPGs. It was so much more satisfying and you really noticed your surroundings when you didn't have any markers. Sure it was hard, but damn rewarding when you get there.

[–]washoutr6 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Then are the the "we get lost easily" people like me who literally can't even play the game because you just get lost all the time. I live for quest markers.

[–]spankymuffin 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

You know... it's interesting. I play these games and complain, thinking "man, back in my day it was way more interesting and immersive; now it's just 'follow the dot on the map' from point A to point B for every quest."

But nowadays, as an adult with a full-time job, I ain't got the time or patience for wandering around. And these worlds are getting bigger and bigger.

I don't think it's impossible for a game to pull off a happy balance, but I haven't really seen it yet.

[–]Taskforcem85 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It is possible it just takes about 1.5x the work. Now that they've perfected both I could see Bethesda trying to get both to work in future titles.

[–]LurkBuddy -2ポイント-1ポイント  (22子コメント)

For real?

Are there actually people who dislike quest markers?

Good games are games that are easy to get into.

Games like Morrowind have aged so badly and are hard to play for new players.

On Morrowind they had that shitty "chance to hit" system which made it unplayable.

To be honest Skyrim is better.

[–]Yrcrazypa 3ポイント4ポイント  (13子コメント)

Learn how to build a character and the RPG aspects of the game don't really impact you that much. Stop trying to fight when your fatigue is low, if you want to use swords set Combat as your specialization, Long Blades as your Major Skill, Strength as your main attribute, and play a Red Guard. I can guarantee that with just one level up you won't be missing much if you stop trying to mess with enemies way higher level than you.

This aspect of making players perfect at everything with no RPG stat crunch at all in any major RPG released in the past ten years has completely turned me off from the genre. All the depth was completely removed so that people who just want something to play for an hour every week can complete them effortlessly. They've gotten to be boring now.

[–]SojournerW 1ポイント2ポイント  (9子コメント)

Chance to hit on basic moves is fine in dice-roll games, turn based games, etc etc, but in any real time action game the mechanic is only infuriating.

Sure, you can tune everything so you never miss, but the new player experience is still shit.

[–]abroane 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yes I hate quest markers. They make the game about following the marker rather then exploring. Also I didn't really like the hidden dice rolls either that's why I used morrowind enhanced a set of mods to fix that. I don't think anyone is saying everything about morrowind was perfect but this hand holding is boring.
And no I can't just turn off quest markers because you really will get lost. Current games don't give enough info for that to work even if they support disabling markers.

[–]Botchness 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

So you didn't like a feature of morrowind and used a mod to fix it, but won't do the same for skyrim?

[–]BuddhaSmite 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

There's something to be said for nostalgia, but I agree. I'll take a slightly dumbed down travel system if it means I don't have to have dice rolls on whether my arrows do damage.

[–]Tabe12[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Some people like simple games, some like complicated.

[–]kill-all-humans- -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

found the guy born after the year 2000

[–]mcketten 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bullshit. I started my TES experience with Daggerfall, when it was brand new, and I was already a teen by then. What people are calling "immersive", more people consider bad design decisions.

[–]fieldsRrings 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

I feel like this could be extended to many newer RPGs and MMOs compared to their predecessors.

[–]Tabe12[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

MMOs are even worse, but I understand why. MMO games are not about immersion or story for the most part and vague directions would only hinder the gameplay.

[–]InfiltratorMain 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Which one is that? Morrowwind?

[–]UnheardStingray 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

that is pretty true to how you would get directions from people since many would only know place locations from landmarks usually only known by locals. only a hunter or of the like that regularly roams the woods would be able to accurately point markers on a map. And their directions would be worse like "head up the moutain trail and off to the right a bit will be a dead oak tree that will give you the chills when you reach it follow the smell to the cave...why are you still here".

[–]EctoSage 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Reminds me of the old WoW days.

[–]SummitPlummet 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Finding the quest thing used to be part of the game. I had so much fun exploring in morrowind.

[–]ybfelix 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Witcher 3 does both, NPCs would still describe in detail the route to a location, but the protagonist "remembers" it for you, so you can just follow a trail on minimap to the general location. If you wish you could turn off the quest mark too... and use your tingling witcher sense to get around

[–]Pp990 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

They could make this an option, like each quest-initiating character has specific directions, and you would be able to toggle the quest marker.