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[Opinion Post] Central Midfield (self.reddevils)

tocitusMemphis が 投稿

I'm going to be submitting a post a day for each position on the team which should create some discussion until the season begins. These posts are to compare the current options and general discussions surrounding each position. Yesterday was centre-back's turn, today is central midfield. I've included all types of central midfield players (Rooney et al will be included on the post about #10) in just one post rather than split up the types.

Player Age Joined Contract Expiry Appearances Goals Assists Points Per Game Goals Per Game Assists Per Game
Michael Carrick 35 2006 2017 421 22 35 2.11 0.05 0.08
Morgan Schneiderlin 26 2015 2019 39 1 1 1.92 0.02 0.02
Ander Herrera 26 2014 2018 72 13 12 1.93 0.18 0.16
Daley Blind 26 2014 2018 (+1) 20 2 2 1.75 0.1 0.1
Marouane Fellaini 28 2013 2018 86 11 7 1.71 0.13 0.08
Bastian Schweinsteiger 32 2015 2018 31 1 2 1.87 0.03 0.06
Timothy Fosu-Mensah 18 2014 2017 1 0 0 0 0 0

Possible Talking Points

  • We all know the linked player to come in and upgrade the midfield. Do you think that will be enough or would you prefer another midfielder to come in alongside him?

  • Are you happy to let Schweinsteiger move on?

  • Where do you see Blind's future at the club?

  • I've included TFM because a lot of people think it will be his future position. Do you agree with that?

  • Any other promising youngsters you foresee playing a role for us in the future in the centre?

Tomorrow I'll post Right Wing.

Previous Posts:

Goalkeepers

Right-Back

Left-Back

Centre-Back

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トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]AngryUncleTonyShaw 47ポイント48ポイント  (45子コメント)

There's a glaring need for an athletic, technical player in the middle of the field. Not sure how we'd fill it though.

In all seriousness, Pogba changes a lot. His partner will really depend on how much Jose shackles him. If he has free reign to roam around the field, we really need Morgan to step up and be an athletic destroyer. If Pogba is more limited, Carrick can do great next to him. I think it should be somewhere in the middle, so both will probably work. I think we'd see the best from Pogba in a midfield three, but we probably won't see that this year.

Would love to see TFM get minutes this year, if he and Pogba are paired up we might have the most physical, athletic pair in the league.

Fine with Bastian going, but would be nice to see him as a Mikel style closer.

Don't want Blind at CM long term, but he can fill in there and can probably start against bottom tier teams if needed. Against the big European sides he won't be athletic enough.

[–]fakeplasticairbag 18ポイント19ポイント  (36子コメント)

TFM with Pogba has great long term potential but TFM isn't there yet, it's a shame he's not a few years older.

I think it will be very hard to get quality out of Pogba offensively if you're going to pen him back and make him defend in a 2 man midfield in a 4-2-3-1, we saw how that didn't work at all for France. To make that work we need a Makelele level behemoth doing all the defensive work himself. I'm quite disappointed we didn't go in for Kante, I think he's incredible

Pogba is such a 4-3-3 midfielder to me but Jose is clearly going to go with 4-2-3-1.

[–]AngryUncleTonyShaw 3ポイント4ポイント  (7子コメント)

Yeah, we need a massive year from Morgan and TFM to develop rapidly. I guess we could also push Pogba to the 10, but that'd be a completely different conversation about Rooney and Mata.

[–]Phase_SpacedBrave Mou World 52ポイント53ポイント  (0子コメント)

and TFM to develop rapidly

We could always sell him to Juve /s

[–]fakeplasticairbag 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

I like the idea of Pogba at 10 but it makes absolutely no sense given our other squad options. You'd be dropping Rooney and Mata to play Fellaini or Herrera

[–]Easily_BakedRonaldo 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pogba isn't a 10, his vision and creativity aren't quite at the level required to be a top 10 and his technical ability, while excellent for a B2B mid, is quite average for a 10 as well, he's much better used as a free roaming CM with a DM who can do all the defensive work by himself or in a midfield 3 with 2 players that can track back.

[–]Fm661Martial 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Pogba doesn't perform well at 10 at all, he is better driving from deep than receiving the ball with his back to goal. I think the best option would be him at 6 with Carrick sitting and either Rooney or Herrera at 10. That gives us work rate around him and let's him venture. Carrick would shield the back 4 comfortably whilst Pogba and whoever is at 10 drops back in. I think in a few years we will see TFM feel the carrick role however smashing man and ball all over the place. (hopefully)

[–]Zalitara 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Not really from deep. He played a very free role in Juventus and didn't come from that far back on the field. He did play deep for France in the Euros and didn't look that impressive.

[–]Fm661Martial 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, I didn't mean deep as in terms of dm. Sorry should have specified, but in that free role he would pick the ball up in the midfield and drive at the defence which is what makes him so dangerous because his athletic ability and ability on the ball make him hard to stop.

[–]rdzzlHarrop 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's because his defensive presence is rather meh aside from being big and muscular. He's best suited as a purely forward-minded midfielder, which is why 4-3-3 would make more sense if we bring him in

[–]FeezbullGiggs 3ポイント4ポイント  (17子コメント)

Going by that, then it won't make so much sense as to why he wants Pogba but not to use him in his ideal setup to get the best out of the most expensive signing ever don't you think?

Just seems counterproductive to get someone for so much, only to play him in a role that curtails him a bit, ala what LVG did with Di Maria, Schneiderlin too, Herrera and such tactically.

[–]fakeplasticairbag 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well just have to wait and see how he uses him and who else we sign. It's certainly crossed my mind that he doesn't really fit that well

[–]aalaloo 0ポイント1ポイント  (15子コメント)

I'm already starting to get concerned. Is Mou really that obsessed with 4-2-3-1 that he wouldn't switch to build around Pog in a 4-3-3? Are we really gunna play our 100mil galactico slighty out of position just to accommodate Rooney for another fukin season? Is that what Pogba signed up for?

[–]pucykoks 12ポイント13ポイント  (7子コメント)

4-3-3, 4-2-3-1, bullshit. It's not Fifa when players stick to the assigned position. Real-life football can have fluid tactics with each individual player having specific instructions going beyond 'stay back while attacking' and whatnot. Sure, the tactic on paper may resemble some kind of 4-2-3-1 but Mourinho will definitely figure out a way to accommodate every one on the field to the best of their ability. Only thing that may worry me is how stubborn will he be to play Rooney. IMO he shouldn't be a starter, but he's still the captain apparently. Wish he was as good a CDM in real life as he is in Fifa.
It's very possible that it will take a month or two for Mourinho to find the optimal starters/tactic, so people just need to be calm and not expect immediate success, just because we have acquired him, Zlatan, Pogba and Mkhitrayan.

[–]aalaloo -4ポイント-3ポイント  (6子コメント)

Yeh, I know there's not necessarily much of a difference between 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3. My issue is Pog, Rooney, Ibra just don't belong on the same pitch. They all want to operate in the same space. Too much overlapping. And Rooney isn't the type to take a back seat. 15 mins without the ball and he'll go hunting for it like he always does thinking it's still 2011.

[–]heapaleapFosu-Mensah 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

"Rooney isn't the type to take a back seat"

Have you just started watching United? Rooney has always moved around when asked. He played on the right during Ronaldo's time at the club, and has really only had one or 2 seasons where he was the out and out striker. He just wants to be on the field I imagine and will do what's asked. Christ your comments on here are ridiculous.

[–]mooseknucks26 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Pogba isn't a 10. Past coaches of his have said as much.

He's a box-to-box type. He has the tools necessary to do well in that role. However, he himself likes to get involved on the attack, so that's why people tend to think he's a 10. He's just good enough that allowing him to float a bit to his natural instincts allow him to attack as needed/when possible, while not skirting his defensive responsibilities. A lot of people compare him to a Scholes type of player, which isn't too far off.

With that being said, he obviously still needs a good partner. Morgan isn't as physically imposing as other defensive mids, but he is effective and should get better with a good crew around him.

[–]Easily_BakedRonaldo 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Imo, Pogba's more like a more athletic Bastian or a Stevie G type midfielder. Verratti is more the Scholes type midfielder.

[–]mooseknucks26 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yea, I could also see those comparisons. Although, maybe let's not mention Gerrard as a comparison to him.

Point being, though, is that he isn't a 10.

[–]pucykoks -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Rooney hasn't had a place under LvG too, but, oh well, el capitano and all that. I didn't see him as a starter before and I surely don't see him as one now. Playing him in whatever way is just a handicap in terms of ability.

[–]AngryUncleTonyShaw 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Given all the foreplay and dinner with Zlatan and whatnot, Pogba has to know the planned system and his expected role coming into this. It isn't like Di Maria where he burned bridges and basically had to leave Madrid. Pogba is leaving a great situation and they want to keep him.

[–]heapaleapFosu-Mensah 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He ran a stellar 4-3-3 at madrid in his first year I believe. They scored an outrageous number of goals if I remember correctly.

[–]Easily_BakedRonaldo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pogba isn't a 10, he wouldn't be played further back to accomodate Wayne. He'd be playing further back because our DM options are quite terrible.

[–]aalaloo 2ポイント3ポイント  (8子コメント)

---------------- Carrick ---------------

--- Morgan ----------------- Pogba ---

By far the best balance. Don't want Rooney anywhere near Pog/Ibra. Those 3 should never be on the pitch together at the same.

[–]fakeplasticairbag 11ポイント12ポイント  (5子コメント)

That just isn't going to happen though. I don't see the point discussing formations we definitely won't play. Also Carrick will struggle to play 30 games this season so we can't built plans that revolve around him exclusively we saw what a disaster that will be in the second half of LVG's first season

[–]aalaloo 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

That just isn't going to happen though. I don't see the point discussing formations we definitely won't play.

It's certainly possible we see Carrick/Schneiderlin/Pogba in a 4-2-3-1 with Pog at #10 at various times of the season. I just think the balance is better if all 3 are used optimally, rather than all 3 slightly out of position.

Also Carrick will struggle to play 30 games this season so we can't built plans that revolve around him exclusively we saw what a disaster that will be in the second half of LVG's first season

So why sell Bastian if we don't replace him? (which looks unlikely, tbh, think Mou will keep Fellaini) He's our 2nd best passer.

[–]fakeplasticairbag 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Carrick can defend well enough to play at the base of a 3 man midfield, Schweinsteiger can't.

I don't think people realise how much better Carrick is defensively than Schweinsteiger

[–]SSienZRonaldo 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

What about Blind as cdm in a 3 man mid when carrick is out?

[–]aalaloo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Which is why Bastian would be Carrick's back-up..

I'd rather Bastian back there than Morgan. If Blind was still a starter then I wouldn't, but again, Smalling/Bailly/Jones/Rojo are all ropey on the ball. A back-3 of Smalling/Bailly/Morgan could be a clusterfuck.

[–]frankowen18 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree with all of that.

It looks like most of the time we'll almost certainly be picking 2 from 5 of Pogba (hopefully), Schneiderlin, Herrera, Fellaini and Carrick, with Rooney/Ibra + 2 wide players.

TFM taking Carricks spot in the future.

[–]hitpopMemphis -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Why is Carrick still in everyone's starting line ups ffs? He's 35. He's class but he won't play week in week out and definitely is not in Mourinho's main plans.

[–]Easily_BakedRonaldo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He will certainly start big games though, he's a very good player when fully fit.

[–]Lord_SchelbJose F. Busby -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 do not have that much of a difference, it depends on the players and tactics assigned. I will give you an example: If you play Mhkitaryan at 10 in a 4-2-3-1, he can easily drop back and fill a cm role at any time, so a player like pogba can go foward without any worries, mkhi has the ability and workrate to do that. its really just a matter of tactics. Rooney can do the same.

--------------Ibra

Martial------Mkhi-----Lingard

--------Pogs----Morgan

------------Ibra

Martial-----------Lingard

-pogs---Mkhi--Morgan

[–]sayheykid24Martial 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's a glaring need for an athletic, technical player in the middle of the field.

TFM! Although he's too young to be counted on this year. It would be nice to throw him in there with Pogba every now and again, and see how he does.

[–]TonyzToneTonito 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not saying he's of the same caliber but I see Blind very similar to Xavi. Neither are particularly large or athletic wonders. But Xavi's intelligence and passing skill made a huge impact on games and helped solidify Barca's midfield dominance. I think Blind can play a somewhat similar role if he beefed up his ball handling skills (not an easy task, I know).

[–]MitrokhinQ -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

Don't want Blind at CM long term, but he can fill in there and can probably start against bottom tier teams if needed.

LOL. Such misguided, ignorant entitlement. This post's stats put him on par with or better than Carrick. Schneiderlin gets more points per game, but is that down to him? Blind has better assist and goal rates. Carrick had the benefit of playing with the golden generation.

Blind is incredibly underrated, it's unbelievable.

Edit: it's clear how important Herrera is, btw.

[–]AngryUncleTonyShaw 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

  1. I don't trust the stats on this post, Blind has way more than 20 appearances for us (he had near 60 just last year), so I'm not sure those numbers are right.

  2. I don't care about the assists and goals of CDMs in general. I care more about how they shield the defense and link up the defense and attack, anything else beyond that that shows up on the stat sheet is a bonus.

  3. I really like Blind. He's a very solid player and his passing range is very impressive. I just don't think he's good enough to start at CDM for a team with ambitions of winning the CL. I want him to get minutes in the future, but I don't think they should be in the middle of the field against elite teams.

[–]MitrokhinQ 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I don't trust the stats on this post, Blind has way more than 20 appearances for us

Maybe because these are his appearances in midfield?

Heh.

I want him to get minutes in the future

I'd put him in the exact position he played in the 2014 WC (that is, LM) in a heartbeat.

[–]AngryUncleTonyShaw 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Are you saying we should go back to the back three? Because if you want him at LCM in a 433 that's Pogba territory, and the 4-2-3-1 we're going to play doesn't really have a wingback role like he played at the WC. Also, you seemed to take issue with my statement was about Blind playing CM, but you want him out wide now? Just want to be clear on what we're discussing.

[–]MitrokhinQ 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

You're not making much sense to me with this comment. Where do you get the idea, exactly, that I take issue with what you say I do? I only take offense to Blind being talked about as a utility and a squad player who should only start against bottom-dwelling teams.

Obviously, with Blind playing at LM I'd be playing 4-3-3. I don't really care about Pogba, I think 120 million is obscene.

[–]ParkerZAYoung 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You want Blind as a LCM? He's not suited to that at all. If he's going to play in midfield it has to be at the base. And didn't he play LB for Holland?

[–]OptimistPrime7Martial 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

I feel we need a world class CDM with Schweini moving on, even after making the Pogba purchase, guess that's for the next transfer window.

[–]AngryUncleTonyShaw 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yep. If Morgan steps up we're set, or if TFM shows he's almost ready we can hold off. If not, it's a need for next summer.

[–]MylesVEon a cold, rainy night at Zlatan 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

What about some centre-back who is around 30, possess leadership qualities, and disciplined defending? We could then use Blind as cover for the back and cm.

[–]BertrandRusJose Mourinho 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

as if Schweini could've filled the world class CDM role. We have Carrick is more than capable it's just that I doubt he'll be able to play games every week.

[–]MylesVEon a cold, rainy night at Zlatan 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

  • Signing Pogba and no other midfielders suits me fine

  • If Scwheini has to go, then he must. I'd like him to stay. Carrick won't be able to play every game even if he stays healthy; and if he, Schneiderlin, or Pogba pick up an injury we would be in a predicament. Schweini's wages are high, and he falls into the "won't play every game" category with Carrick. So while personally disappointed he didn't light it up, Basti wouldn't be a terrible loss.

  • Blind is good cover at centre-back, and defensive midfield. He is eloquent off the pitch and is just as composed and intelligent on it. He continuously gets undermined but his contributions have been overall good since being put in the back four. His fantastic passing range. Albeit he isn't our solution to CB. Away to Spurs stands out as an example of how Blind can easily be found out in a game.

  • Fosu-Mensah most certainly should end up in central midfield. He's a god damned destroyer. Being our tank to disrupt and sheild. I think giving young players playing time at fullback is an easy tact: they get plenty of time on the ball and usually always have back up. They aren't forced into too many pass-or-possession-loss situations. TFM could be a Bryan Robson in a Patrick Vierra body.

  • Angel Gomes is talent. Pint sized but still very, very young. I want to see more of him, Gribben, Sean Goss, and Buffonge as far as midfielders go.

[–]TudoorsScholes 14ポイント15ポイント  (3子コメント)

Devils advocate - Mourinho untaps Fellaini's hidden discipline, uses form 3 dragon ninja skills on him and turns him into the DM we need.

[–]YeezusTaughtMeMata 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

but not the one we deserve

[–]JonnyWicked 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm a simple man. I see Batman quote, I upvote

[–]TheMediumPandaSchmeichel -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

As versatile as mike hair is, he's too slow to have serious defensive duties.

[–]ssb5107Herrera 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Non Pogba comment: Its refreshingly surprising to see statistics back up the reason behind Herrera's popularity among fans. Considering these statistics are mostly during the LvG tenure, we can expect all from him if he settles in Jose's scheme.

He needs to improve his decision making but a healthy run of games should help him there.

[–]wpmkMemphis 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Pogba comment: Ironically if Pogba arrives then Herrera is likely to be the one who loses out. If Pogba is to be a dynamic box-to-box player he'll need a disciplined partner alongside him; probably Carrick or Morgan. Herrera isn't that disciplined central midfielder but he'll be a rotation option at least.

[–]Spruce-MooseHerrera 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Aye, in truth I think Herrera's in a dodgy position. As Mou likes a two-man midfield, Herrera's best chance for minutes might be at CAM, at which we already have competition.

[–]lawvolManchester United 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Why not a hybrid of 4-3-3 and the 4-2-3-1 ?? Call it whatever you want, but below is how it would look.

--------------ibra---------------

--Martial-----------------Mkhi--

----------------rooney------------

-------pogba----------------------

----------------Schne--------------

-shaw--smalling--bailly--Valencia

Scheiderlin covers the back and gives Pogba the ability to move forward when he wants to. Rooney can drift as needed to create space.

Remember, this is just when rooney is on the pitch. He won't always be out there. If he is not, you can bring in Carrick, Herrera, etc... and play a more traditional 4-3-3.

[–]DerFussballgott 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

If Rooney was on the pitch there it'd be him playing in the no.10 role so it's still really just a 4-2-3-1 as Mou has already said Rooney won't play in midfield.

[–]lawvolManchester United 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I see this formation as him playing more of a hybrid of a traditional 10. It would require slightly more defensive responsibilities and shading to the right side a bit to allow space for Pogba.

[–]fakeplasticairbag 7ポイント8ポイント  (14子コメント)

Mourinho clearly is going for a 4-2-3-1, it's what he's played for years now and in all our friendlies so we need a 2 man midfield who can do everything.

Obviously 1 of those 2 guys is Pogba.

To me our only potential partners for Pogba in a 2 man midfield are Schneiderlin and Carrick no one else can defend well enough to carry Pogba who's lazy defensively. Herrera, Schweinsteiger, Blind and Fellaini can't defend and/or aren't mobile enough to cover that ground solo.

I'm not convinced Carrick has the legs to cover Pogba's lack of defensive work at 35 and Schneiderlin while solid enough isn't some all star defensive midfielder. He's looked every bit as average in pre season too

We probably have enough to get buy this season but if a guy like Matic is available we should definitely be in for him.

It's a shame TFM isn't 1-2 years older because I think he has the raw materials to be that guy he's just a few years away.

[–]goodguy1994it's Rooneyyy, it's inevitable. some things are meant to be 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

Schneiderlin played 45 minutes in pre season

[–]aalaloo 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

Schneiderlin while solid enough isn't some all star defensive midfielder. He's looked every bit as average in pre season too

Schneiderlin isn't a classical DM. Not the best positionally, and his energy/pressing is wasted just shielding the back-4 (and partly responsible for his positional woes as he gets dragged). He's a defensive box-to-box. He can cause havoc higher up the pitch. Play him in front of Carrick/behind Pogba.

Carrick has to start at DM for his passing considering all our CBs (apart from Blind) are ropey on the ball. Which is also why it's perhaps premature to ship bastian out. He's currently our 2nd best 6.

[–]fakeplasticairbag 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

There's no way Schweinsteiger can play with Pogba in a 2 man midfield. That would be a complete disaster defensively.

One of the reasons he's leaving I think is because he can't play with our new star player

[–]aalaloo 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

But I don't want a 2-man midfield. I want Carrick or Bastian at 6 with Schneiderlin/Pog in front.

By all means sell him if Mou is determined to play a 2-man CM. I just wish he wouldn't.

[–]fakeplasticairbag 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well I want us to buy a passing central midfielder and a destroyer and play 4-3-3 but it's not happening.

I prefer to talk about what I think Jose will do

[–]aalaloo 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well I want us to buy a passing central midfielder and a destroyer

That's totally different to optimally deploying what we already have.

Don't worry, Mou will get fed up of Rooney by xmas and switch.

[–]Xanian123 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Krychowiak would have been an excellent buy. Shame PSG snapped him up.

[–]DerFussballgott 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pretty much hit the nail on the head 100%.

4-3-3 is the dream but we'd still need another CM and DM on top of Pogba for me to be fully comfortable playing it. 4-2-3-1 just suits the squad better as of right now as it hides some of our depth issues in midfield and incorporates Rooney and Mata, which are still players that have to feature until Mourinho brings in replacements that are upgrades.

Even into the future I'm not betting on us switching to 4-3-3 but I hope every day we do. He's been using his current formation for like six years now lol.

Regardless of formation we still need another DM and Matic is the dream. We were linked like two months ago by Di Marzio but since then it's gone quiet.

Hopefully once Pogba gets finalised we hear more news about other potential options.

Edit: http://gianlucadimarzio.com/en/eng/juventus-from-chelseas-matic-to-witsel-the-latest/ - There was actually an update a few days back - supposedly Matic is pushing to leave Chelsea. Hopefully we jump on that if true and stop him from going to Juve.

[–]burlycabinShaw 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

What about Blind?

[–]AngryUncleTonyShaw 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yep. If Carrick were a few years younger he'd be perfect, but Pogba moves around so much (and that's a good thing mostly) and won't have the Juventus back three behind him anymore. We can ask Pogba to play more conservatively like he did at the Euros, but that would be a waste of his talent. We really need a lot from Morgan this year, and hopefully TFM is ready soon.

[–]fakeplasticairbag 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If we we're linked more with other CM's id think it possible he was buying Pogba as a 10 but given Rooney isn't playing CM I really doubt that with our other cm options

[–]fakeplasticairbag 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If we we're linked more with other CM's id think it possible he was buying Pogba as a 10 but given Rooney isn't playing CM I really doubt that with our other cm options

[–]MylesVEon a cold, rainy night at Zlatan -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

no one else can defend well enough to carry Pogba who's lazy defensively

how do you figure? is it his 76 successful tackles out of 100 attempted tackles last season? His 47 interceptions averaging over 1 a game don't back that up. Or if it's the eye test, no matter where on the pitch he is deployed he tends to be a crazy aggressive presser of the ball. He ends up with an average over 2 fouls committed a game, and gets fouled almost as often. That plus watching him play leads me to think he is in the thick of it, often.

So explain Pogba's lack of defensive work please. I don't disagree with some of you other points, but you do so while discounting the abilities and efforts and effective tactical positioning by managers of Pogba.

[–]fakeplasticairbag 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Defensive stats are a total nonsense which favour players with shitty positioning making last ditch tackles instead of just marking their man and shutting down passing lanes in the first place

Just watch him play. He's like a Gerrard or Yaya Toure. Happy to put his foot in but no positional sense or discipline to keep a strict shape. We saw that all clear as day vs Germany and in France's other games where he played in a 2 man midfield.

We've also seen in time and again for Juventus in the big UCL games where he's just not interested in the hard defensive graft. He needs disciplined workers to carry him

[–]Kr4sTelANNOUNCE POGBA FFS 4ポイント5ポイント  (6子コメント)

I honestly think Blind might be a good option as CDM. He's played as a defender the last season so he certainly got better at defending, plus his vision and passing ability would be very useful as apart from Carrick, no one has that ability.

Schneiderlin or him when Carrick is unable to play. When he is tho,
Carrick should start - alongside that midfielder of course.

[–]modshavepenisevyBerbatov 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I like Schneiderlin / Blind behind roaming Pogba. Simple. If we're starting Carrick against our biggest rivals we're not gonna have a good time.

[–]AngryUncleTonyShaw 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Blind at the base of an athletic three would be ok, but he isn't athletic enough to shield the back four by himself when Pogba goes roaming.

[–]fakeplasticairbag 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Absolutely no way Blind and Pogba is going to work in a midfield 2.

We'd get absolutely wrecked in midfield vs any good side

[–]Kr4sTelANNOUNCE POGBA FFS 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Why do you think so? If he played the whole season at the cb and yet coped quite well, why couldn't he do it in midfield, plus the fact that Pogba will be with him makes it look good on paper imo. Pogba's a complete midfielder - he can and will defend as well. People seem think that Pogba won't defend, and if he would, he would be used wrongly, which I simply disagree with. The problem with Pogba at EUROS was that he was the anchor man, the man shielding the defense and playing passes. He had to sit back. However, with Blind doing this particular job, he would be more free IMHO. With that in mind, why would we break the transfer record if we won't use Pogba to his full potential- that is in a 3 man midfield. We should def. build the team AROUND Pogba,but by the looks of it currently, Mou will use the 4-2-3-1 formation. Let's see. ;)

[–]fakeplasticairbag 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

You have a big misconception about the kind of player Pogba is.

He's not an Arturo Vidal, he's a Yaya Toure

[–]Easily_BakedRonaldo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

At least he's better than the ones who think he's a 10...

[–]TelcarSolskjær 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Shouldn't we wait 48 hours before discussing this?

[–]VallureHerrera 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pogba discussion aside, I'd like us to begin lining up replacements for Carrick. Not necessarily for this transfer window, but certainly for the next one. For me, Carrick is a fantastic player, but he is now 35, so we should certainly begin eyeing a replacement, whether it is a player in their prime or a youngster filled with potential.

I honestly don't think any midfielders we currently have possess the passing and defensive abilities, as well as calmness on the ball, the ability to dictate the tempo and experience to consistently perform in the deeper role like Carras does. Saying that, of course, few can match his experience, so for the purpose of the conversation I am only discussing the other aspects. Many suggest Schweini (who doesn't seem to be in Mourinho's plans anyway), but for me he's more of a box to box whereas Carrick is your typical deep playmaker. I personally think the player that comes the closest is Blind, but he hasn't really played enough for us in that role for me to say comfortably whether he is or isn't a good enough replacement at this moment in time.

Weigl is a name I see mentioned frequently, especially on /r/soccer, and although I personally can't say I've seen him play many times, he seems to be regarded very highly by quite a few Dortmund fans.

Do you guys think Carrick is a player that will need to be replaced when he begins declining? If you do, do you think we have enough quality within the ranks to do that and if you don't think we do, who would you like to see us sign?

[–]zyklan 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

I don't think we need further improvement in central midfield, I'd rather let Schneiderlin prove himself and give blind or TFM a run.

[–]C_diddy91Scholes 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm just going to throw this out there, since no one has mentioned him: Give Phil Jones a shot at CDM? I know, I know, he's injured a lot, but when he isn't i recall him having played some exceptional destroyer games, notably closing down özil for an entire game, and also Fellaini (although that shows how long ago it was). None the less, he's been in the squad for the pre-season. Do you think he may be given a shot, despite his recent haircut?

[–]Spruce-MooseHerrera 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well, Jones played CDM in select games to perform a specific, man-orientated defensive function. Who knows, perhaps he'll find fitness and form and do so again. However, I don't expect to see it, as Mourinho favours consistency in his lineups, and Jones does not have the all-round attributes to perform in midfield consistently, IMO.

[–]C_diddy91Scholes 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The point about consistency is very true, and one i forgot momentarily. His injury record won't do him any favors with a coach like Mourinho. Ah well, I hope we get to see him every now and then. I always enjoyed watching him play, he seems extremely committed.

[–]DelTrottervan Nistelrooy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Phil did well in 3 man CM, badly in 2 man.

[–]unitedicecreampizza 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

I don't think Pogba by himself isn't enough here, Schneiderlin hasn't impressed this preseason. I would like for us to try to get Matic or someone like him, Kante would have been a great pickup but that ship has sailed already.

[–]AngryUncleTonyShaw 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Morgan's only had the one game after Euros, but he really needs to have a big year.

[–]AdamDalby 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

And even that's a stretch. He played 45 minutes after rejoining the squad two days previously. Not wanting Schneiderlin is fair enough if that's your opinion, but claiming your reasoning is based off what you've seen in preseason is either total bullshit or sheer stupidity.

[–]scotty1987 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Schneiderlin hasn't impressed this preseason.

Erm, he played 45 minutes...

[–]omegaxLoLAnder Herrera 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If Pogba does join, I think we're set for the season in midfield, but will probably look into a top class DM next summer.

[–]badgarok725SAF 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Midfield is definitely one of the harder positions for the fans to judge, and right now I really don't know if what we have is good enough or if we need more still.

After all, apart from maybe center backs I don't know that any position gets more hate and then eventual gratitude than midfielders. Carrick used to get a lot of shit and even Modric didn't have a great beginning at Madrid. So I hope that Schneiderlin and Herrera have a strong future, but I don't try and say that I have a clue as to whether or not thats the case

[–]Wynax 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Our midfield wil be set for this season, if we sign pogba. Jose Mourinho likes to have a defensive midfielder and box to box and a number 10 in his midfield. Schniederlin will be the defensive midfielder and will most likely do a great job under Mourinho. Rooney will be the number 10, he can't be a striker anymore. He will do good, he will be for sure inconsistent at times but average. But Ander Herrera could do the job, but we need pogba.

[–]reddit_no_likeyA new dawn is coming... 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

By the numbers alone, we see how effective Herrera has been.

[–]Lethria 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Age differences... TFM 18, two 32+, and else 26 and 28.

I agree if Pogba come, will change everything. And I can see TFM have a good future with that age gap, he 8 years younger than Schneider and Daley. And also 5 years younger than Pogba.

Schneider and Daley can be the DM with TFM as cover. I hope TFM will step into first team in 2 years, when Fellaini's contract already expired and others in their last year contract.

Herrera can be a good cover if Pogba come.

The sad part is, Carrick still show his class to us when he is 35 years... I hope someone younger can step in and do the job, I hope the player is Schneiderlin.

I'm happy if BFS move on, he have too much wages with injury prone. I know we already read similiar comment on other player - cough -.

Blind can be in CDM, LB, and CB. But I hope that Axel kiddo play CB over Daley, at least in 1-2 years later.

[–]W0rsleyRafael 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Really hoping we play with a proper 3 man midfield, I think Pogba (and possibly Ibra) would be slightly wasted if someone like Mata or Rooney was taking up space in that number 10 position. He'd also have a lot more defensive duties in a 2 man midfield, and whilst he's capable of doing it, he seems best when he's able to get forward whenever possible.

I do think we need another midfield even after Pogba but can't see it happening this season unless a world class player for whatever reason becomes available, a midfielder similar to Kroos would be perfect, someone able to play from deep and just basically let Pogba roam with Schneiderlin doing most of the defending.

Also yeah TFM will more than likely end up in midfield, but for this season at least he will probably be played in a few different positions which is fine at his age as long as he gets game time at this level.

[–]DerFussballgott 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd love the three man midfield as well but we'll start with the 4-2-3-1, it's just what Mou will go with to begin with. Whatever happens after that is anyone's guess. I want him to change but he's been using it for six years lol.

[–]xtphty 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I feel the opposite, having a number 10 generally allows your #9 to play deeper which favors bra. It also stresses wider play which again favors Ibra's aerial abilities. I think its almost a given that we will play 4-2-3-1, with Mata/Rooney behind Ibra. This of-course does not favor Pogba's midfield strengths so its possible that the games where Ibra is not available we go to a 4-3-3 with martial/rashford(or rooney)/mkhi with a 3 man midfield of pogba mata schneiderlin(or carrick)

[–]W0rsleyRafael 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd usually agree but overall I just think 433 would be better for us, Mkhi isn't a strictly wide player and at time sagainst Galatasary he was nearly next to Martial with just Valencia down the right.

If we had prime Rooney it could definitely have worked as Ibra and him would have been interchangeable but he isn't at that level anymore, Mata could possibly work but I think he's best when players are playing in front of him, 4231 could definitely work with Rashford upfront instead of Ibra but then Pogba would be limited instead.

I think we'll play 4231 next season but I think if Mourinho had a player like Kroos or even Rakitic he would switch to a 433. Then again at the end of day I don't know shit about tactics but I suppose this subreddit is meant for discussion.

[–]Kr4sTelANNOUNCE POGBA FFS 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Or what about Fabinho? Apperently he was used a lot in midfield as much as in RB position. He's certainly athletic and would improve our squad nonetheless.

[–]Lord_SchelbJose F. Busby 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Jose buys specialists, not utility players. If he were to buy Fabinho, Im 100% sure he would be used in his best position, RB.

[–]Kr4sTelANNOUNCE POGBA FFS 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah you're prob right with that one.

[–]cr2152 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fantastic banter on this sub.

I'd love to see Blind starting at CM long term. He kinda reminds me of a young Carrick. Great passing range, accurate, positionally sound, not great pace but don't need it for the position. Only thing I think that Blind needs to get better at is providing an outlet to switch play and change the point of attack. Brilliant passer of the ball with great range, but he'll improve in that regard if he can get regular minutes in CM. I like Blind's upside as a holding midfielder better than schneiderlin's because of his ability to be an interceptor and break up play with his stron positional sense. Would be fine with rotating that position among Blind, Carrick, Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger though until someone makes it their own

[–]hitpopMemphis -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think that if Pogba comes we will have a midfield 3 of Schneiderlin sitting, Pogba as an #8 and Rooney as a #10.

I really hope Mourinho gives TFM a chance and we see a midfield 3 of Schneiderlin and TFM with Pogba at #10. I doubt that would ever happen but imagine the athleticism, power and creativity! TFM and Pogba would make our midfield really strong again. It's really awesome to see the team being so tall now with Pogba and Ibrahimovic, Rashford, TFM, Schneiderlin, Smalling, I reckon we'll score loads more corners this year.

Also I can't believe I forgot Herrera, he will surely play and be a fantastic player under Mourinho. So a midfield 3 of Schneiderlin, Herrera and Pogba at #10 would be insane with TFM rotating for Herrera/Schneiderlin. Really doubt it would happen though, not sure about the balance but I'm really looking forward to Herrera playing under Mourinho, I reckon he'll be so good!

[–]modshavepenisevyBerbatov -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Why does anyone expect Carrick to be a consistent difference-maker this season? Seems completely daft. He's utterly off the pace and was never good in the tackle, anyways. He pivots and plays square balls which is fine when we're ahead but he's a shitter when we're behind. In any case, to expect him at his age to feature consistently and prominently is intellectually dishonest.