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[Opinion Post] Number 10 (self.reddevils)

tocitusMemphis が 投稿

I'm going to be submitting a post a day for each position on the team which should create some discussion until the season begins. These posts are to compare the current options and general discussions surrounding each position. Yesterday was left wing which was posted by the lovely /u/feezbull

All stats for each player are compiled specifically for each position, not their stats as a whole

Player Age Joined Contract Expiry Appearances Goals Assists Points Per Game Goals Per Game Assists Per Game
Memphis Depay 22 2015 2019 (+1) 3 0 0 2.33 0 0
Jesse Lingard 23 YA 2018 4 0 0 2.23 0 0
Adnan Januzaj 21 2011 2018 8 1 1 2.00 0.13 0.13
Ander Herrera 26 2014 2018 18 3 3 1.89 0.17 0.17
Juan Mata 28 2014 2018 45 13 10 1.76 0.29 0.22
Wayne Rooney 30 2004 2019 27 7 6 2.04 0.26 0.22
Henrikh Mkhitaryan 27 2016 2020 (+1) 0 0 0 0 0 0
Andreas Pereira 20 2012 2018 (+1) 3 0 0 2.25 0 0

Possible Talking Points

  • Who is your first choice?

  • Are you happy with the rotation/back-up options available?

  • Any promising youngsters you foresee playing a role for us in the future on that wing?

  • Alternatively, do you even see a need for a #10 or would you prefer to play straight up 4-3-3?

Tomorrow I'll post the last in the series; striker.

Previous Posts:

Goalkeeper

Right-Back

Left-Back

Centre-Back

Central Midfield

Right Wing

Left Wing

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トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]prem_201 24ポイント25ポイント  (0子コメント)

Mata should be first choice, we don't have a good enough option for RM else I'd prefer Mkhitaryan.

[–]Bacon_BoobiesSmoked Rashers 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Rooney needs to play really well to lock that position down, I just don't see it happening in all honesty.

Don't think Mou will have the same loyalty towards him as LVG did if he's not performing there, think we could end up seeing Herrera, Mata or Mhki taking the spot from Roo if he doesn't perform well

Would like to see Pereira get a shot there at some point as well, maybe in the cup games or off the bench.

[–]yiyiyiyiPogba 10ポイント11ポイント  (7子コメント)

Obviously we're going to start the season with a 4231 and will play with a #10 but there's a really good case for playing a 433 instead.

Ibrahimovic likes to drop deep and link play. PSG didn't play with a #10. I just don't see Zlatan and Rooney being a good partnership. They both want to play in the same space, it won't work out.

Pogba didn't play in a midfield with a #10. He had freedom to do what he liked at Juventus instead.

If we move away from from a system with a #10 then we can get more out of the two biggest players and it wouldn't harm anyone apart from Rooney and Mata.

But it looks like we will go with a #10 and it will be Rooney. I'd expect him to be better than last season but he's still not going to be close to world class.

[–]King-EricCantona 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think 4-3-3 suits us better in the long run as well (especially for Pogba ) but I'm not going to get my hopes up. Mourinho has been using this formation for the majority of the last six years or so - hard to see him moving away from it.

[–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]eaheckman10Blind 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    stacked with completely underwhelming options

    [–]ParkerZAYoung 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I really don't think we have much to worry about as Mourinho's 4-2-3-1 I'd basically a 4-3-3. He'll have his 10 dropping a bit deeper in the midfield.

    [–]fakeplasticairbag 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I think it's likely we give Rooney this last season, he sucks and then is gone next summer where we'll bring in a CM instead and go 4-3-3.

    Might even happen this season if Rooney is really bad and Mata doesn't improve.

    [–]vamosTicos 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    What do you think the lineup would look like in a 4-3-3?

    [–]yiyiyiyiPogba 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Carrick in the holding role with Schneiderlin or Herrera doing the box to box busy work and Pogba doing whatever he likes on the left. Then Martial left, Zlatan through the middle and Mkhitaryan on the right.

    [–]Marcosbryant10 27ポイント28ポイント  (8子コメント)

    Mata or miki should be first choice but we know it's Rooney, so that ends that... Pereira needs to go on loan and junazaj has to either leave permanently or loan, lingard is a useful member of the squad

    [–]WHiTeCHIICK 10ポイント11ポイント  (5子コメント)

    I'd like to see Mata play in his preferred position consistently

    [–]Lawlietttt 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Everyone keeps forgetting that he played there consistently in LVGs first season and was awful. He kept disappearing or getting muscled off the ball. There's a reason why he was moved to RW in the first place.

    [–]JirachiJirachiOHH YESSSSS 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

    People also forget that Mata is lethal in creating chances when he has the freedom to. LVG system is not one that suits him. Let's see how Jose uses him now. He was Chelsea best player for 2 seasons, he's not just another midfielder.

    [–]Lawlietttt 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    He was Chelsea best player for 2

    He was then bang average in his last season and ended up hardly playing. Mou has shown to prefer hard working players at CAM over Mata. Both Herrera and Rooney fit that criteria better than Mata.

    Also, the last time Mata wasn't "just another midfielder" was 4 years ago now imo. These days he's good once a month and he'll rack up a goal or assist that game. Then the other games he'll be side passing again.

    [–]Marcosbryant10 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Me too but we know he most likely will be on the bench, which is frustrating to see

    [–]Savage9645Rooney 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    He'll get his minutes. Rooney won't play a full 90 every game.

    [–]fakeplasticairbag 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Mata or miki should be first choice but we know it's Rooney, so that ends that.

    I just hope than when Rooney is crap he's actually dropped this time.

    [–]deeejhibbert 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    agree completely, imagine zlatan tony mata mhiki
    as a front line, any speed issues are no matter with how fast our wingers are, plus if there is any need for help in the middle those guys can drift inside. there's so much creativity and speed in that line up. i can see memphis convert into a utility forward, cuz he's shown capability to play anywhere behind the striker (limited on the right), would be nice to see if he could develop even more at the all three so he can back up our first XI, but if not as an LW or no. 10 preferably. also don't really see lingard as a no. 10 has a tendency to drift there awkwardly when starting on the right and he doesn't seem to function well there when he starts in the middle

    [–]zyklan 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'm not satisfied with Rooney being our main man there. I think he lacks creativity and pace, also his decision making has seen better days. I don't think we should buy anyone in that position because there is no one who is available who is a significant upgrade on Rooney, James maybe. I think De Bruyne would be the perfect fit but that seems highly unlikely.

    [–]Launch_a_poo 19ポイント20ポイント  (9子コメント)

    Rooney gets judged too harshly on here. Winning the league isn't always about having world class players in all XI positions. Rooney is hard working, to the point where he even runs back to make goalline clearences, a great leader and always contributes towards 20 goals a season minimum

    His record speaks for itself

    EDIT: I thought the bizarre decision to remove the downvote button was to promote discussion, obviously not. I'm no longer negative

    [–]Shaggydog__One Darren Fletcher. 12ポイント13ポイント  (5子コメント)

    People saying Herrera is a better 10. than Rooney are talking out of their ass. It's like they didn't watch him at all when he played there. And Mata was shit there too.

    Rooney needs to be replaced at #10, but not by Mata or fucking Ander Herrera.

    [–]alexandro7 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

    you going to provide any evidence or analysis for us idiots talking out of our arse?

    [–]Shaggydog__One Darren Fletcher. 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Maybe if any of you provide any evidence of him being a better 10 than Rooney besides saying "he's better in tight spaces", and "he's a better short passer".

    [–]alexandro7 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    you say that like those 2 factors arnt essential to playing the 10 role well. Your touch needs to be very good in tight spaces to hold the ball up and to offload to other attascking players. this is a quality herrera has and rooney doesn't. Yes and again sorry but if you want to be a 10 you're going to have to be able to do all sorts of passing. Rooney only seems to have the "hollywood ping" left in his locker and even that doesnt come off all the time anymore. Herrera is the better passer though he needs to work on his long range abit more as he's entering his prime years. Herrera's decision making is also superior to rooneys.

    [–]Launch_a_poo 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Herrera's decision making is pretty suspect. He can be very rash at times and has been known to leave his position to charge down a player.

    I've already said about the leadership Rooney brings to the side but when compared to Herrera I'd also say he is better at running at defenses, he is better in the box too and poses more of a goal scoring threat. Also for all the stick Rooney gets his assist record is impressive and you don't get that without having a good pass

    Herrera isn't known for playing balls like this

    [–]Launch_a_poo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I don't mind Mata playing there but do think Herrera is better competing for that box to box CM spot

    [–]Quardi 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I think it just comes down to who you'd rather see us accommodate. No 10 to get the most out of Zlatan and Pogba or have a 10 and get the most out of Rooney?

    [–]Launch_a_poo 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I don't see us playing 433 consistently. Mourinho has always been a 4231 man and we have no cover for LCM and RCM.

    Also, I don't think the scenarios of playing with a 10 and getting the most out of Zlatan/Pogba are mutually exclusive

    [–]Quardi 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Fair enough, but I guess I just disagree. I know we won't play 433 but I still think it's best for getting the most out of Pogba and to a degree Zlatan. Getting the most out of Pogba in a 2 man midfield won't happen for a while. He's at his best with a bit of freedom, beating players and breaking through the lines. But more importantly we just don't have the kind of midfielder to hold and dominate defensively alongside him (Schneiderlin is far from a sure thing at this stage and who would cover him). We have however got plenty of other midfielders that you could pair up to complement Pogba to free him up and maximise his potential.

    Zlatan is less clear but he and Rooney both naturally want to occupy the same space. It was evident almost instantly vs Everton and will take time for them to click if at all.

    I'm not convinced anyone other than Rooney benefits from the 4231 in our first choice lineup. Hence for me, it's a 4231 to accommodate Rooney or the more optimal 433.

    [–]silkie_blondoKing Dave 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I wish we would wouldn't play with a no.10. Was kind of hoping we would transition to a 4-3-3 with the (hopeful) signing of Pogba. Feel like that would be better suited for his style of play.

    Looks like this season though we will be going with a 4-2-3-1 so I would say Mata and Herrera would be better suited for the no. 10 because I think their technical ability dribbling and close quarter passing is better.

    [–]ilandstlfan 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    First choice: Mkhi, except he is also my first choice for RW. So, Mata.

    I'm happy with the options for now, except I think the Rooney situation is going to get ugly.

    Pereira is the obvious choice as our young No. 10. Unfortunately, I suspect he will go elsewhere to get a starting spot.

    If Pogba is signed, I strongly prefer to play a 4-3-3.

    [–]WHiTeCHIICK 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Not rooney hes so average at 10

    [–]MiLSturbieMata 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Where is he not average nowadays?

    [–]GuessableSevens 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I know everyone loves Mata, but honestly he played there a lot last year and was unremarkable and average. Rooney's highs were higher even if his lows were lower. I think because of his work rate, he should be the first choice #10 for the first 5 games as a trial.

    [–]digitagCarrick 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Seems like this is an unpopular opinion but I'd like to see Rooney at #10 for the time being. I think playing under LVG for so long somewhat shackled him as a player. At his best he's still a world class option but at his worst he looks bang average there. I'd just l like to see whether Mou can bring the best out of him consistently. He's an exceptional man-manager with certain players and he and Rooney have openly shared a mutual respect. Perhaps that's naive and wishful, I do think Mata is a better technical no. 10 but I struggle to see him as a consistent #10 as Mourinho envisages the role. I'm really interested to see what Mhki can bring to the table when it's asked of him, just think we have to give him a shot at RW first.

    The dark horse of the lot is Herrera because he has a lot of qualities which Mourinho desires in a #10. He's far from being my first choice but he could really blossom under Mou.

    [–]BloodyMess111 4ポイント5ポイント  (8子コメント)

    Mata or Miki, but honestly, what's the fucking point in talking about it, we all know the potato that's going to be occupying that spot. How longs he got left on that contract? 2 more years? sigh

    [–]ireallyamsomethingRooney 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

    the potato that's going to be occupying that spot. How longs he got left on that contract? 2 more years? sigh

    There's intelligent discussion and criticism of your own player and there are people like this...sigh.

    [–]BloodyMess111 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    People like what exactly? Explain.

    [–]QuicktimeSamRojo 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Fuck you and your disrespect.

    [–]YungyubankJanuzaj 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Fuck off he's a legend at the club

    [–]tocitusMemphis[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Well apparently his contract is til 30.06.2019, which is another 3 years no?

    [–]BloodyMess111 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Well that's unfortunate.

    I thought he signed a 5 year extention when Moyes took over but obviously it was a 5 1/2 year extension.

    [–]JuicyPorkDumplingsRooneyIsLoveRooneyIsLife 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    We don't have anyone as reliable as Rooney, but this should definitely be the year we work on getting another strong and creative player for the future. Whether its from the academy or the market. I really like Ander but i need to see him more as a number 10, would also love to see Pereira succeed with us but i still think he's a couple of years from being a starter.

    [–]KingLechi 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Herrera didn't do a bad job there when given the chance last season, maybe he gets another go. Also, what about Memphis?

    [–]Shaggydog__One Darren Fletcher. 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Herrera was shit at 10. last season.

    [–]GGMU1992Jose Mourinho 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'm curious to see what Mourinho can make of Rooney at the 20. Mostly because we know that is who he is going to play and I'm trying to be positive.

    [–]wh11Memphis 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Mata or Pogba

    [–]DANNYWELBECK12345 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Would've loved Januzaj to get a shot at 10 this season

    [–]craigybachaManchester United 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I think Mkhitarian is our strongest number 10, but he'll likely be played on the right wing.
    Mata is too lightweight in the 10 and doesn't really track back, so I think the spot is Rooneys.

    [–]Scorci 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Quick question, if we could sign a world class #10, let's say James Rodriguez, would you rather play 4-3-3 to accomodate Ibra and Pogba and forget the 4-2-3-1, or bet it all on the #10?

    [–]Crkvenjakhura 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Now when pogba plays 10 with carrick and schneiderlin(...) behind

    [–]myshitsmellslikroses 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    can we plzz just play a 4-3-3, dont want to see Mou waste pogba like Deschamps did

    [–]O_G_Loc 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Sneijder?

    [–]EZeeeH 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Memphis at the beginning of last season played at no.10 and was good at switching with wingers and creating chances for others he deserve a chance there, Martial Memphis Micki will work

    [–]ireallyamsomethingRooney 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

    Not sure why most people here prefer Mata over Rooney at no. 10 despite his multiple poor performances there the previous season when he got constantly bullied off the ball, leaving us vulnerable to counter attacks. Mata's passing/vision is quite good but his strength or lack of it is a major disadvantage. If one prefers Mkhitaryan, then that's another matter.

    Rooney's probably going start the season there...I also see him as playing a kind of 9 & 1/2 role as Jose has mentioned before, where he sometimes occupies the striker's position as Zlatan drops deep or along with him.

    [–]rbp25 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Because at the end of the day Mata has more of the right attributes to fit a no. 10. Rooney simply does not fit the role. As to why Mata was ineffective last season is a separate discussion which I would like to be optimistic and say that LVG's style of play and influence over all the players form had a major part to play.

    I know Rooney is locked for that position for now but I would like to see Mata given a shot with a few games there. I guess that will only happen if and when Rooney isn't performing well enough at no. 10.

    [–]ireallyamsomethingRooney 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

    I disagree with the argument that simply having the right attributes on paper would make him more effective in that position. I like Mata, but the team has suffered when he plays in that position (when he has played for us-for Chelsea, few years ago, he was a better player).

    I would like to be optimistic and say that LVG's style of play and influence over all the players form had a major part to play.

    I've seen it here often...but why would one use the LVG argument for certain players but not for Rooney? In the Moyes season he was very good and in the last Fergie season he was quite good as the supporting striker behind RVP, getting quite a few assists.

    [–]rbp25 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I think it would warrant a run of games in his preferred position. I think it's a bit harsh to say that the entire team has suffered when he plays in that position. With LVG and his slow build up play I think teams found it very easy to man mark and block the entire team from attacking. I'm hoping with Mourinho we will be quicker and more fluid which hopefully will stretch play and open gaps that Mata can penetrate - Rooney is incapable of that. With Fergie we played more of a 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 with Rooney behind RVP. Our formation and tactics are gonna be different and also Rooney is a lot older than he was 4 years ago. So if you're relying on Rooneys performances from Fergie time we can't give the benefit of the doubt to when Mata showed what he's capable of at Chelsea? For United he has still chipped in with a fair amount of assists and goals in the last couple of years given he was played at RW (too slow for that) and LVG's restrictive policies.

    [–]ireallyamsomethingRooney 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    That's what I'm saying-if Mata/Herrera,etc. can be excused with the argument that they were restricted by LVG and were better before that, the same could be said of Rooney. I'm not especially favoring one, just saying that the same argument used for Mata can be used for Rooney too, who also usually had the most goals+assists for us. Obviously I'd like both of them to contribute well this season.

    About the team suffering, I meant defensively. Mata is good technically but loses the ball too easily, though I can't really fault him for that-his physical build doesn't help.

    [–]rbp25 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'm not excusing Herrera at all, he was non existent in the games he played no. 10 last season. I still hope he comes through at CM under Mourinho where he will have a little more license to express. I'm not denying that Rooney doesn't provide the output, he does but last seasons numbers were from a short burst in form when he played striker in early 2016. Honestly my issue is not that Rooney is bad or he should not start - He just simply doesn't fit anywhere with our current squad. I hate it because I love the guy and respect and admire his service and passion. Mata being weak defensively is a common scenario for most players suitable for no. 10s. Barring De Bruyne the traditional nimble no.10s are quite small and weak - that's why we have 2 at the base of midfield right ? For what it's worth I think Mata definitely gave his all with his work rate and tracking back even though he doesn't offer much defensively.