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missnewreddit が 17時間前 投稿
Looking for advice - hope I am doing this correctly.
How old are you and how familiar are you with RPW? I'm 32 years old. I'm familiar with RPW through Reddit.
What is your relationship status? Married for 6 years; in the same relationship for a total of 13 years.
What is the problem? After having 2 children, my marriage is crumbling. I feel lost and alone and unsupported. I feel like my husband is cold and cruel towards me. He told me to read Laura Doyle's book First, Kill All the Marriage Counselors and has urged me to post here. I have to be honest that I fundamentally disagree with the core RP principles and feel like I hit a brick wall - namely the notion of Captain/First Mate that is discussed on the RP subs. Divorce feels imminent, especially if that is the dynamic he wants. I have nothing but resentment towards him. I'm not sure I love him let alone like him.
How have you contributed to the problem? According to my husband, I am the problem so just existing. Let me caveat this by saying I have been struggling with PPD and am at a low point right now.
How long has this been an issue? ~3 years has been the hardest, but looking back this has always been an undercurrent problem in the relationship.
What have you done to resolve this problem? Started to read the book and am posting here.
If married or in a committed, monogamous relationship:
How long have you been together? 13 years
Is your relationship long-distance? No
Do you have an active bedroom life? No
[–]Eterfinifrete 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 15時間前 (8子コメント)
I have 2 small kids too -- I hear you about the exhaustion. You have a pretty full plate and you sound like you're kind of angry that your husband is asking anything more from you? I have had plenty of evenings when I just collapse on the couch too. I know that some of them are necessary, but I also know I'm a much happier person when I find a few minutes here and there to do something positive for myself. Because turning into a "lump" on the couch eventually makes me depressed and cranky. Can you all take a walk after dinner together, and get some exercise that way? Can you use your lunch break to stretch your legs or even go to the gym? Can you bike to work? As for your husband being reluctant to watch the kids...well, you probably need to give him plenty of positive feedback about that. So don't second guess his parenting style, don't make faces when he does something differently than the way you'd do things. You'll be happier, in the long run, if he is comfortable watching the kids, so it's worth trying to build up his confidence. Then you'll be able to get your hair done in peace! I used to be hyper-critical of my husband when he was with our kids. I got outraged if he let them watch a few minutes of TV, or if he fed them something I didn't approve of, or if he didn't understand something they said, or if he explained something in a different way than I would...ugh, I was ridiculous, and it made everyone miserable. Recently I was in the car with my mom, my dad and my kids. My mom spent half the time snapping at my dad about the way he spoke to the kids. He was doing NOTHING wrong...she was just being a control freak and my God, it was a big warning for me.
[–]missnewreddit[S] 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 14時間前 (7子コメント)
You have a pretty full plate and you sound like you're kind of angry that your husband is asking anything more from you?
Yes, that's an understatement. Thanks for sharing. I was beginning to feel like a pariah for being so exhausted at the end of the day.
[–]AliceOxalis 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 12時間前 (6子コメント)
Did you read the other things she said about undermining his authority over his children? That's SUCH an important point that you NEED to understand. He told you that he feels disrespected. You can fix that! Divorce is DEVASTATING for children. Trust me, your children will be happier and healthier with your husband's (in your opinion subpar) parenting and you staying together, than with your (supposedly superior) parenting and you getting divorced.
[–]missnewreddit[S] 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 11時間前 (1子コメント)
Yes I understand that. It's difficult for me to hold my tongue but I know I can work on that piece.
[–]AliceOxalis 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 11時間前 (0子コメント)
Big respect for taking the advice here so well. I'm sure it's in some ways less hurtful to hear it from us (random other women) than from your actual husband. But think of it this way - it's a good thing that he's telling you his feelings. He's communicating! He's telling you how he feels, and what he wants and needs. You don't like the things he's communicating, but that doesn't mean he isn't doing it. If he wanted to just dump you, he would. But he's not - he's communicating and asking and hoping that you will work with him to make a worthwhile life. He loves you!
[–]ragnarockette 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 9時間前 (3子コメント)
I think you're overstating "devastating" a little bit. Sure it's not ideal, but the best gift you can give your children is happy, adjusted parents. If a marriage is dissolving and both parents are miserable, then that's not an ideal situation either.
[–]AliceOxalis 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 9時間前 (2子コメント)
That's hogwash. Divorce is absolutely, 100% devastating to children. The best gift you can give your children is happy, adjusted, married parents. The answer is to fix your unhappy marriage, not nuke it. You don't cure a broken leg by amputating it.
[–]Kittenkajira 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 9時間前 (0子コメント)
high fives
[–]Telm_rpw 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 4時間前 (0子コメント)
That depends on the break. Sometimes it is so mangled it needs amputating. Sometimes it has gone gangrenous.
If it has, and you stay together "for the kids", trust me, you end up with your kids telling you "sorry, we would visit...but..we don't like mum/dad"
Most marriages never get to where 1 spouse wakes the kids to make them tell the other spouse they hate them...but...if yours does, your leg is way beyond broken.
[–]CoochQuarantine 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 17時間前 (8子コメント)
There's so much going on here. But first.
Do you want to fix tour marriage? Cause from the sound of it you're surrendered to the idea that it's over. In your mind you've moved on. You're not willing to put in your part to fix a crumbling marriage and feel like you've got nothing to fix.
Everyone has something to fix.
Another thing is that at this point your husband is sooooooooo worried that he's losing his marriage that he's basically told you, shit needs to change now. This is his attempt (albeit rough) to get things in motion.
In no place here have you addressed your part in the failing marriage so first start out there. What have you contributed to the benefit AND detriment to your marriage. Then maybe we can begin to help things on your side of the fence.. til then we cannot really work with what little info you've given here.
[–]missnewreddit[S] 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 17時間前 (7子コメント)
I feel all over the place, so not surprised that it comes off that way. I am struggling to communicate with my husband and when I try to, he shuts me out. This is the person who is supposed to be my best friend and now I can't share my feelings with him because it's going to hurt our intimacy? Who am I supposed to talk to?
I feel overwhelmed already with my life and this is added pressure. I feel like the onus is on me to "fix" this because if I don't or if I am not successful, then it's my fault. What part does my husband play in this other than sending me quotes from Laura Doyle's book saying, "do this!"?
My husband says I don't respect him. I feel like he is more focused on himself than on our relationship and our family. I spend a lot of time nagging and criticizing as a result. Rinse and repeat.
[–]CoochQuarantine 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 16時間前 (6子コメント)
I am struggling to communicate with my husband and when I try to, he shuts me out.
Well there is another book called the 5 languages of love. you might need more quality time and words of affirmation whereas he needs more touch and acts of service. When the two are at odds then you definitely aren't conveying that you love each other and that can be a huge intimacy killer.
This is the person who is supposed to be my best friend
WRONG. I know there are people here who would disagree with me on this but he is not your friend. He is your MAN. As such you give him more respect, more attention, more love than any other person on this planet can attain as just a 'friend' (even if you throw the word best in front of it).
and now I can't share my feelings with him because it's going to hurt our intimacy?
So a part of this is that men don't like to listen to complaining. Men like to listen to problems so that they can fix them. If you are just ranting at him you are leaving him in a place where he feels helpless. That is a bad head space for a man to be in. Maybe the next time you have an issues (THAT CAN BE SOLVED) bring it to him and see that he doesn't react in a different way. He will propose different solutions. It is just a difference in ways men/women communicate.
Who am I supposed to talk to?
If you need someone to rant to, get more girlfriends. Go to the IRC and chat here. But men don't give a shit about any of that. You have been lied to.
I feel like the onus is on me to "fix" this because if I don't or if I am not successful, then it's my fault.
The thing you aren't realizing is is that if you put in all your effort to try to be the best partner you can be, you'll never know whether or not you actually could have saved this marriage. You have already decided that you've failed some test and that it is pointless to even try. Your responsibility is always to fix your side of the street. You need to make sure you are trying all that YOU can and if in the end of you doing what you can you're marriage is still failing then you need to decide where to go from there.
My husband says I don't respect him.
Well he is the expert on him and how he feels you interact with him so I would take this as a HUGE warning and a HUGE call to action.
What part does my husband play in this other than sending me quotes from Laura Doyle's book saying, "do this!"?
That is for him to figure out. Not you.
I feel like he is more focused on himself than on our relationship and our family.
lol. By taking care of himself he is taking care of your relationship AND your family. You need to start doing the same.
Ok. So just from your last sentences
I spend a lot of time nagging and criticizing as a result. Rinse and repeat.
You do have something that is within your power to control. I think you are underestimating the impact you have with your attitude and demeanor with your husbands attitude and demeanor.
[–]missnewreddit[S] 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 16時間前 (5子コメント)
I shared the 5 Love Languages with him YEARS ago. I don't remember what we both identified as, but they were very different. Nothing changed.
As far as the self-care thing goes - we have two young children and we both work full-time. There is little to no time for me at the end of the day. I get criticized by him for being a "lump" on the couch because I am too tired to do anything else. There are many times that I would go out and get a mani-pedi to only be flooded by texts saying "when are you coming home?" That just ramps up my anxiety about not being there and feeds into the idea that he isn't capable of handling the kids in my absence. Just recently, I went to get my hair done and he kept complaining about how long it was taking.
[–]CoochQuarantine 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 16時間前 (3子コメント)
I shared the 5 Love Languages with him YEARS ago.
I'm not talking about him reading it. I'm talking about you reading it. Since you've identified how he loves then you need to employ that more.
Nothing changed.
Did you change??
As far as the self-care thing goes
You don't need to count getting your hair done/mani/pedi as things to take care of yourself. It can be as simple as taking 10 more minutes in the shower or even putting the kids to bed 30 minutes early. Cooking your own favorite meal or getting take out at your favorite place. You're idea of taking care of yourself are these big acts that may not in fact fit into your schedule.
So just doing a little diving into your history, I found this comment from you
My husband has the same crazy expectations of our 2.5 year old too. When kiddo gets really upset and worked up, he needs to be calmed down before he can actually listen to what we're saying. My husband will say things like ignore him, don't respond to this behavior, etc. and I'm like no what you're doing isn't working, let me calm him down first because IT WORKS. It has caused many a fight between us about me "undermining" his authority. I feel your pain.
This is really telling in that you don't show people you respect your man. Even if it is your kids. Lets say for one second that you are right and that your method to deal with your kid was a tried and true method. 100% you know what you are doing. Ok. What exactly would it have cost to reinforce his way of doing things all in the name of preserving harmony? Then after you weren't in front of your kid told him "I think that the way we handled this wasn't in the best interested of little bobby or even for myself. This is how I would have handled it. What do you think?" In this example, you would have saved face for your husband in front of his kids who see him as an authority figure AND you would have demonstrated respect for how he does things. I'm sure you do this to him all the time. Probably not only in front of the kids but also friends and family. Having 2 kids and full time jobs is no excuse to be a bitch. If you and him were to divorce you would still have 2 kids + full-time job BUT WITH NO HELP FROM HIM AT ALL. Where will you be then?
[–]missnewreddit[S] 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 16時間前 (2子コメント)
What exactly would it have cost to reinforce his way of doing things all in the name of preserving harmony?
I was on limited time and trying to get out of the house. Acquiescing to the toddler's shoe choice would have preserved harmony IMO.
If you and him were to divorce you would still have 2 kids + full-time job BUT WITH NO HELP FROM HIM AT ALL. Where will you be then?
I've thought about this a lot. I guess it's one arena I do feel fairly capable in. Not saying that it is the preferable option or that I want to be a single mother, I just know that I can handle the kids and working. It's our marriage that is the most challenging thing right now.
[–]CoochQuarantine 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 16時間前 (1子コメント)
You are hamstering here. Even still you could have told him "I do not have time to try to fix it like this can we try my way?" instead of just undermining him like he was your child. The kid you both share isn't yours alone to raise.
I just know that I can handle the kids and working.
You are kind of deluded. As a single mom, you have no idea what it is like to raise a child... let alone 2... with no help from the dad whatsoever. The marriage out of the three options is the EASIEST one to fix. You really have just checked out to believe that being a single mom is even an option that could be ok.
All I hear is you deciding that you don't want to change anything on your side because you don't think you have done anything wrong. Nothing you have said has told me that you have done anything right though. You don't sleep with him. You don't show him respect. You don't care about yourself enough to at least maintain his attraction. Basically, if this is the baby blues, then you know what the problem is. Get on anti-depressants or whatever the dr recommends for that and fix this because your crazy is going to drive you to a situation you WILL regret.
[–]missnewreddit[S] 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 16時間前 (0子コメント)
I wouldn't be talking to you ladies if I didn't want to try. I am trying to gain perspective here.
[–]AliceOxalis 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 12時間前 (0子コメント)
Can you work part time? I think the modern trend of both parents working full time out of the house when they have young children is destroying tens of thousands of marriages.
[–]StephanieCitrusFascinating Woman, 24, living as married 6 years 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 17時間前 (16子コメント)
There is a lot to lose if you don't try anything. What do you lose from trying to see his perspective? A little pride maybe? Some time?
Right now it sounds like you're turned off of the idea of the Captain/First Mate. Here's how I see it: you don't think he's worthy to be the head of your family. You thought he was worthy enough to marry and father your children. Why is he not worthy to be the leader of your family?
In most of the situations I have witnessed, men just explode and grow into their best selves when their woman treats them with respect and brings joy into their life. So long as your husband does not have a flawed character, he's not going to take advantage of you...
You will experience your love reborn again, he'll dote on you, protect you fiercely and love you in only the way a strong patriarch does. Can you work on yourself for a few months or a year, to reap the benefits of keeping your family together?
Or do you want to be slung back into the dating world, now as an older, single mother? For what to try to find a more worthy man? You have one here willing to try new things and being honest with you about what he wants.
[–]missnewreddit[S] 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 17時間前 (15子コメント)
I am turned off to the idea of Captain/First Mate. I understand the notion that men and women want different or need different things FROM a relationship, but we are in this relationship TOGETHER. I do trust him and his decisions but he also has to trust me and my decisions.
I'm a total backseat driver. I know it drives him crazy. I understand that I have to TRUST him and relinquish my control when I'm not in the driver seat. That is small potatoes.
For big picture stuff that pertains to our relationship, there has to be a meeting of the minds.
[–]AliceOxalis 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 12時間前 (0子コメント)
I'm a total backseat driver. I know it drives him crazy.
This is what he means when he says he feels disrespected. It would drive me crazy too! It really is so important to fix this. If you don't, it's obvious that he's going to divorce you, for good reason. Can you make a list of situations where you know you are prone to backweat driving and controlling behavior? Then mentally check yourself when you're in those situations. Things like: Driving, Parenting (NEVER criticize how he disciplines or handles his own children, would you like it if he followed you around criticizing how you mother them?), etc
[–]BellaScarletta 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 16時間前 (0子コメント)
but we are in this relationship TOGETHER. I do trust him and his decisions but he also has to trust me and my decisions.
And this is the absolute crux of the C/FM dynamic. As I look at it, my SO is team leader. It is the only election of authority I have ever participated in where my vote is the only vote in the ballot box. I trust him because I trust myself, and I chose him.
A true Captain will always look out for the interests of his unit. Always. Sometimes his decisions may be difficult, sometimes he may take your desires into account and then proceed against them, many more times he will take his own desires into account and proceed against them -- you are two individuals and one relationship: that is three sets of interest that will not and cannot line up every time. Trust your captain to always do his best.
As his first mate, you are the person whose opinions bear more weight than the rest of the world. He chose you because he trusts and respects your decisions so. The captain is the leader but that does not always mean he is the primary decision-maker, so often that responsibility falls to you. And he trusts you explicitly to be by his side as you steer your relationship toward its best possible outcome.
I can understand balking at the insult of not being first in command, and maybe the dynamic is not for you -- that's okay. But I think you owe it to yourself to first understand really and truly what the dynamic actually is (as opposed to your knee jerk of what you think it is) before deciding it can't be reconciled with your own beliefs.
[–]StephanieCitrusFascinating Woman, 24, living as married 6 years 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 16時間前 (12子コメント)
There are things that he is better at than you. There are probably areas in life where you are more knowledgeable than he. But in the gray area, where you both have opinions, he should be reasonable enough to hear you out, and you should be reasonable enough to let him make the final decision.
He's not an idiot. When you argue and nag with your husband, he sees that you think of him as incapable. At the end of the day he's probably not going to make an outright BAD decision. Maybe not the best. Is having your way worth diminishing your relationship or ruining the peace in your life?
If you can let go of needing to have the final say, you will be unburdened. You know you didn't marry a drooling idiot. You yourself would have to be stupid to do that. Do trust that he is capable. Men need to be admired and respected in the same way that women need to be loved and cherished.
[–]missnewreddit[S] 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 16時間前 (11子コメント)
you should be reasonable enough to let him make the final decision
I don't agree with the bit about him making the final decision on things. There are things I may be comfortable with him making the final decision on - like where we should go to dinner or which stroller we should purchase - if I am ambivalent or undecided. I don't think that works for me as a general rule though.
[–]StephanieCitrusFascinating Woman, 24, living as married 6 years 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 16時間前 (10子コメント)
He cares about the 'big decisions' as much as you do. Why are you the one who gets the final say?
[–]missnewreddit[S] 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 16時間前 (9子コメント)
I think it should be made jointly.
[–]StephanieCitrusFascinating Woman, 24, living as married 6 years 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 16時間前 (8子コメント)
If you're shopping for a house, you can't live in one half the time and the other the other half.
You can't paint half the house yellow.
You can't live in the city halfway between each of the cities you prefer and both be happy
You can tell him what you need, what you prefer, and trust him to make the best decision he can. If he's not a complete degenerate, he will do what is best for BOTH of you, not just thinking of himself.
[–]missnewreddit[S] 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 16時間前 (7子コメント)
We pick a house we can both agree on.
We pick a color we can both agree on.
We pick a city we can both agree on.
Simple to me.
[–]CoochQuarantine 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 15時間前 (0子コメント)
Do you believe your husband would pick a house you hate? Paint that house a color you hate? Pick a city you hate? I guess it just comes across as you do not trust you man... at all. Personally, I don't care what house/house color I live it. I just want to be happy with my man and if a forrest green ranch is what he wants vs my white colonial, then so the fuck what. Those decisions are trivial in the grand scheme of things. I know my man is happy and when we are 90 years old sitting on the front lawn saggy and gray, we will have survived the crazy together and just be happy. You only see the decision in front of you. Not the lifelong commitment of your relationship. It is very shortsighted of you to think that all decisions should be met with 100% agreement on both parties. All books of the art of negotiation state that you will never get your way 100% of the time. You might not even get your way 50% of the time. You have to choose what you can and you can't live with.
[–]StephanieCitrusFascinating Woman, 24, living as married 6 years 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 16時間前 (5子コメント)
No. You can't. You will each fall in love with different houses and your marriage will die on the hill of you thinking "IF HE JUST LOVED ME ENOUGH, HE WOULD LET ME HAVE MY WAY"
[–]missnewreddit[S] 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 16時間前* (4子コメント)
I can't think of any major decisions that we made without doing it jointly and it hasn't caused an issue. We didn't argue about our wedding, honeymoon, our current residence and furniture, how we handle our finances, what we named the kids.... we are generally reasonable people about these things.
[–]blushinglillyMarried 5 ys, Early 30s 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 15時間前 (0子コメント)
Let me caveat this by saying I have been struggling with PPD and am at a low point right now.
Are you getting any treatment for this at the moment?
There are much more experienced people on this sub who can give you better advice but I'm going to give you one piece.
When two people are in a hostile relationship with a lot of anger, if they want to save it one of them has to make the move towards changing the emotional situation first. One person has to stop displaying anger first, one person has to be the one to extend an olive branch first, one person has to start showing affection and saying loving things first.
This is difficult because when you are upset and angry you want to protect yourself and your pride gets in the way. It's so easy in the heat of anger to not want to be the one to capitulate.
The problem is that this solves nothing and it just makes everything more and more difficult.
The only person you can control in this situation is yourself, so if you want things to improve you have to be the one to do it.
I think you'll be surprised by how much things change if you just start showing a little bit of love.
[–]StingrayVC 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 11時間前 (0子コメント)
Ok, you don't like the Captain/First Mate option. After reading the comments, I understand why.
I get the impression that you get defensive with your husband. You are trying to maintain control. Only, this need to maintain control undermines him and he finds it highly disrespectful. Pick one thing that you know you do that he doesn't like. For example, there was something about how he handles the children. Don't undermine him when he parents. You might not like the decision he makes, but it doesn't necessarily make it wrong. Maybe your way would truly be better, because you have the experience to know better. But, still don't undermine him (most especially in front of the children). Something unpleasant might come from this, you might be late to be somewhere, your children might fight with him, you might get embarrassed in public. Who knows, but at the end of the day, none of these things are bad in comparison to divorce. For you, for your husband and for your children.
Your desire for control is a big reason for your struggle. What is astonishing about the C/FM dynamic is how much MORE control one feels when this dynamic falls more into place. I know it doesn't seem that way now, but all of those balls you've got juggling up in the air that you are so desperately trying to keep up there, they become fewer and you become a master juggler of the ones you still have. Then when someone throws another ball into the mix, you are so under control, that it does little to nothing to mess you up.
As to making the major decisions together, I hear what you are saying, but when it comes to deciding on a house, paint color and all of those other things, there is only one choice, and one person gets there way and one person does not. Both people give input, but at the end of the day, one decision is made by one person hopefully taking everything into consideration from the other person. Basically one person gets their way. If your husband reads MRP, he likely feels disrespected in this process. We're not saying you lay down and give nothing. We're saying, listen to him. He's not a woman and he will listen, talk, respond and react far differently than a woman and he wants you to respect that from him. I would go as far to say as he needs this from you. It is foreign to you so try not to listen to your gut reaction to what we are telling you. Try to understand what we are saying in precise terms, not what you gut wants to tell us we mean.
Having said all of this, you are listening to us. You are not getting so defensive, telling us off and running away. You are getting defensive and you are still trying. This in itself is impressive and tells me that you can do this. It won't be easy, but it can work for you and it can work in ways that you never expected to be possible. Try to remain open to it. This is your marriage and it is worth the work, effort and loss of pride that will happen. What replaces this pride is a calm that I can't describe.
Give it a chance.
[–]TempestTcup 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 17時間前 (6子コメント)
Which RP subs have you been reading?
[–]missnewreddit[S] 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 17時間前 (5子コメント)
RP, RPW, MRP
[–]TempestTcup 10ポイント11ポイント12ポイント 17時間前 (4子コメント)
I'm assuming that your husband is MRP, and he found it recently, got super gung-ho about it, started dreading you before he got his shit together, and is now just like all of the other MRPers: confused as to why you hate him. They sort of act according to a playbook.
I feel for you; you didn't ask to get thrown down the rabbit hole. We will help you the best we can, but generally women who are forced to come here aren't as accepting as women who come here willingly. I'm sorry that you are going through this, and maybe it will help to talk it out.
[–]missnewreddit[S] 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 17時間前 (3子コメント)
It's funny because he completely baulked when I said what you are doing to me is EXACTLY this (showed him a post which was basically a MRP how-to guide).
He was acting weird for a week and when I discovered that he was reading MRP, it all clicked in my head but based on what I knew about RP it made me want to vomit.
I would appreciate someone to PM with (if you're open) because my husband is going to end up reading all of this.
[–]TempestTcup 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 17時間前 (0子コメント)
Absolutely, you can PM me anytime you want/need to. And, if you want a little more privacy, you can go to the IRC and there are a lot of ladies in there you can talk to in real time.
https://www.irccloud.com/#!/irc.quakenet.org:6667/%23redpillwomen
Ignore the money requests - it's free, just put your name in and give it a password.
[–]TempestTcup 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 12時間前 (1子コメント)
I meant to mention before, please do not go to your family or friends with this problem for a while. The problem with going to them with a marital problem is that if you two work everything out, and all is forgiven between the two of you, those friends and family will still think less of him for pretty much forever. You will be shooting yourself and your relationship in the foot. Try to work it out here first, please!
[–]missnewreddit[S] 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 9時間前 (0子コメント)
Yes, I agree.
[–]BellaScarletta 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 17時間前* (24子コメント)
First and foremost, I think Tempest's intuition below is most accurate for why you're in your current position, and Cooch's is most accurate for how you need to approach it. So I am going to build on their insights rather than repeating them. Read those comments first.
You are imperfect. Your husband is imperfect. It does not sound like he is approaching the situation as constructively as possible, that being said, low quality relationships give way to low quality decisions therein -- you have to accept that you both share responsibility in why your relationship is in the state it is in, and then accept that puts a low ceiling on your ability to operate within it. It's not entirely his fault he can't approach this from the most diplomatic and strategic position. Try and forgive him for that, as you have likely also done the same to him.
Again, I echo Cooch: do you want to fix your marriage?
If you truly want to, there is no guarantee it will work. But if you don't truly want to, there is a very definite guarantee it will not. It's not a fair position to be in, but it is the reality of the position you are in. You can either lament the way you think things ought to be, or pull yourself up by your boot straps and kick as the best you can. What do you want? You must decide this before any of our advice can be of the slightest bit of use.
I'm hesitant to go full boar into pitching ideas until 1) you've answered the above question to yourself, and 2) we know more about the problems at hand.
Ultimately I think as far as recommended reading material, I suggest this book. I find it lacks depth in the "how to execute solutions" department, but it's prolifically thorough in the "understanding your partner's pain" department, which is imperative if you want to find those solutions to remedy it. I also suggest you look at this image; I know a picture can't bring you reprieve from your pain but I hope it resonates with you and gives you hope that you and your husband want the same things. The real world problems of adulthood may have put your backs to one another, but it wouldn't hurt this bad if the authentic person in you didn't desperately want to connect. It's okay to acknowledge and try and honor that, and reconcile both mentalities into a functional marriage once more.
I wish you the very best in this situation, and I think we can help more with more information...if you want to fix it.
[–]missnewreddit[S] 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 16時間前 (23子コメント)
do you want to fix your marriage?
Honestly, I don't know. I feel so hurt by him. I can barely look at him. I don't want him to touch me.
At the same time, I yearn for affection.
It's all very confusing. I have been crying continuously for the past few days because I feel like I am grieving the death of someone I love.
[–]BellaScarletta 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 16時間前 (1子コメント)
I think that's all good, honestly. You hurt -- you care. You are hurt because you feel something has happened -- not because you want it to happen.
I think the first step may be asking your husband what he wants -- maybe not today. Not if you are going to do it with vitriol. I would encourage you to consider sitting in the living room when you have time alone, and asking questions. Don't interject your own opinions, not because they don't matter but because there is time for those later. Just try your damndest to understand what he wants; he likely may not understand it fully and your questions may flesh out some preconceived notions the Internet has put in his head. That's not to say what he is reading has no value, but just that it has to be critically interpreted prior to application, which he may have jumped the gun on. He's only human, try and forgive him for that.
Give yourself some time, and when you are ready to do so without hateful rhetoric -- ask him what he wants. You can cry. You can sob. But don't throw his solutions in his face. Don't criticize them. No matter how much you hate what he is saying. Bring a notebook and jot bullet points if you must. Just listen and ask questions. Do it until you can't anymore. Fight the urge to be cruel to him.
Then take your thoughts and collect them elsewhere. Think about why you are hurt. Why you are angry. What is making you angry? Is he wrong? Or is he pointing a mirror at the ugly parts of you that you don't want to see? I would wager a combination. Allow yourself time to process so when you can respond you can do so without the kneejerk pain you will most certainly feel when you first listen -- to do that would be to deny yourself the full benefit of listening.
I suggest you start there, when you are ready to do it with an open mind.
[–]missnewreddit[S] 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 16時間前 (0子コメント)
Thank you.
[–]CoochQuarantine 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 16時間前 (20子コメント)
I feel so hurt by him.
Why exactly?
[–]missnewreddit[S] 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 16時間前 (19子コメント)
When this whole thing unfolded last week, he told me that he's less attracted to me because I've gained weight. Hardly a revelation on the weight gain front, but it was hurtful to hear him say that about me. I am already self-conscious and was actually feeling more secure about my appearance at ~10 months post-partum. That knocked me down several rungs.
[–]BellaScarletta 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 16時間前 (3子コメント)
Okay. That hurts. But it hurts because it's true. Attraction is paramount in a relationship, and he is telling you this because he wants the attraction and wants the relationship.
What would you rather have, a man who can look you in the eye and say "this is important and this is fixable, let's improve our relationship"? Or a man who sweeps his authentic feelings under the rug and let's his aversion build and your relationship deteriorate?
Weight can be an emotional thing but it's actually so simple. That is one of the easiest things to solve if you let it be.
Let me offer you my own perspective, I am prone to disastrous eating habits and exercise habits on both ends of the crazy scale. I will stuff myself with bread and oil and I will spend 15 hours a week lifting weights. I have been overweight and I have had a full blown six-pack.
In my partner, I trust him to moderate my figure. I trust him to look me in the eye and say "your weight is getting out of hand". Knowing he will say that is what makes me so comfortable living life without being in panic about it. I can eat that cake. I can eat that cookie. I don't need to worry because if I take it too far he will let me know. This is something I value in my relationship, rather than being hurt by it.
Try and look at it like that.
As far as weight, my SO is a personal trainer who I have heard grown men oggle over his physique. Right now, I am remarkably average. I am thin with some nice soft pudge that I'm not so fond of. I asked him how he could want to be with me when he is so clearly excellent and I am so clearly average. He responded "I never understand why people see an unideal weight or physique as being broken. You are sexy as hell to me as you are, but if you ever stopped being that: at any point in time we are less than 8 weeks away from you being sexy as hell again."
Weight is so unbelievably temporary, if you can let go of the emotional sting you've been programmed to have to someone criticizing your physique, you can be grateful he is respecting you enough to communicate one of the most fixable problems ever to you.
I have always struggled with my weight. It's not something that comes easily to me, so I am feeling particularly hopeless at the moment.
[–]CoochQuarantine 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 15時間前 (0子コメント)
so I am feeling particularly hopeless at the moment.
again, something you need to tell him because he will figure out a solution for it since you cannot.
[–]BellaScarletta 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 15時間前 (0子コメント)
Weight = Calories In < Calories Out.
I know it can be a more emotional experience than that, but from a physiological perspective it is really that simple. Your options are eat less, or burn more. You don't need to be a fitness model, just get into a moderate range.
May I ask your height and current weight?
[–]cats_or_get_out 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 13時間前 (6子コメント)
10 months post-partum
Have you had your thyroid checked lately? It is very common to have high thyroid a few months after pregnancy and then have a low thyroid for about a year. It happened to me. I felt like I needed a spatula to get out of bed, off the couch, etc. It can resolve itself on its own, but sometimes medication is necessary.
Weight gain and lack of exercise will also make you feel more tired. It's counterintuitive to think that going out and exercising will give you more energy in the long run, but it does. Getting started from scratch is tough. I get that. I still struggle with fatigue, but for me, running 5-7 miles a few times a week makes a big difference. I started small (like 1 mile). Check out the couch to 5K program. Take a quick cold shower. Strap your kids into a jogging stroller and hit the road.
A big thing to also consider is that the first year of baby is so damn exhausting--and you have two kids. It's not going to be like this forever, I promise. Meantime, get up and get moving. :-)
Your husband might have drowned on the MRP Kool-Aid, but that is no excuse to entertain thoughts of divorce. Marriage is for life. All marriages hit really rough patches, but that doesn't mean it is deteriorating. You can't fix or change him, but you can come out from this landslide of fatigue.
Focus on you. Find other stroller runners. I highly recommend this because the "I have the kids with me" excuse goes out the window. Once you feel better, you will find yourself just more calm and better able to deal with this home life stuff. You will have more energy and will be less miserable. You may even stop nagging and realize that most battles are dumb and aren't worth fighting over. I think of Lester Burnham ("American Beauty") as he starts to make himself happy through better diet and exercise. It is part of the process of him gaining control of his life.
Because here's the secret: when we are nagging, we are in control of nothing, not even ourselves. True control comes from knowing what you have control over and letting go of the rest.
Best wishes.
[–]missnewreddit[S] 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 13時間前 (1子コメント)
Thank you. I find your response a bit more encouraging. I actually thought of the thyroid thing yesterday and am looking for a GP now.
In terms of diet and exercise, I know what I need to do. I am feeling particularly stuck right now especially with so much going on with a 2.5 year old and a 10 month old. It has not been my priority. I'm just trying to survive my youngest's first year!
[–]cats_or_get_out 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 13時間前 (0子コメント)
Just make it to that first birthday mark. That's a good, short term goal. That first year is rough. Make yourself a goal, even if it's ridiculously modest. "I will run/bicycle/whatever for 10 minutes every day until that first birthday."
I got back into shape by "streaking." The rule was that you had to run a mile everyday for a month. You didn't have to do the entire mile at once (1/2 in am, 1/2 in pm or whatever), but the mile had to be run (not walking). This got me in the habit of putting on my running clothes and going outside. It's 10 minutes (give or take). It's doable. It got me over my mental block about how exhausting and time-consuming running is. Before this, more than half the time, I had talked myself out of running because I was "too tired." Doing the streak reprogrammed my brain's self talk. Now I just get dressed without thinking (and dreading) the run.
Even if you're not a runner, never fear! It's not too late to start. :-) I joined a running club (for moms with kids), and that helped me build my self-confidence and camaraderie. I have seen women who have mom-bods get out there and run. With a proper diet and consistent exercise, they make huge improvements. More importantly, seeing the other moms out there was super motivating, way more motivating than being passed by a hot 20 year-old athletic lady. I stopped blaming my age (nearing 40) and my childbearing for my crappy fitness and took control.
Just go run. Let go of those "I can't/I'm not good enough" thoughts that we women always seem to have on repeat in our heads while we exercise.
[–]CoochQuarantine 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 12時間前 (3子コメント)
MRP Kool-Aid
OMG This is now a thing!
[–]cats_or_get_out 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 12時間前 (2子コメント)
Sipping is good. Guzzling it down the wrong pipe is less helpful.
[–]CoochQuarantine 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 12時間前 (1子コメント)
Sips MRP Kool-Aid
hahah 2Meta4Me
[–]cats_or_get_out 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 12時間前 (0子コメント)
Bahahahaha
[–]StingrayVC 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 11時間前 (0子コメント)
It will be hurtful to hear these things from your husband. We are all taught that our husbands should love us as we are. But, what if what we are is not the very best self we can be? What if his courage in tell you these things brings out the very best in you and he is with you and encouraging you and helping you every step of the way?
He's done the first step. He had the backbone to tell you exactly what he wants. Tell him you want to do these things and ask him for his help. Let him help you become your best self. This is a good thing. What better person in the world than the person we love most in the world, the person we vowed to spend our lives with to tell us that we are lapsing? It takes courage to do that and we should try to see it that way. It is a help for us when they do this.
*Obviously, this can be taken too far, but you married this man. Hopefully the case is that you saw in him someone who would be there to help you in everything. Let him help you.
[–]StephanieCitrusFascinating Woman, 24, living as married 6 years 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 16時間前 (1子コメント)
Work on your weight. I'm not trying to hurt your feelings here but if you end up dating again, you will have to lose weight to catch a man. So go ahead and lose it. It can help you save your marriage, it's better for your health, you will need to even if you give up on your marriage. Just do it.
[–]BellaScarletta 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 16時間前 (0子コメント)
To add: yes, you will have to lose weight to keep your man or to catch a new man -- a quality man you would want, anyway.
So if the weight loss needs to happen, which situation would you prefer it happen in? With the support of someone who already loves you, or alone in desperation?
I caution you against glamorizing what dating will be if your marriage ends. Dating as an overweight single mother in her 30s will not be sexy. What is sexy is working toward a better future with your husband.
Relationships give you what you put in, if you aren't getting what you want out of it...then you know what you need to do.
[–]CoochQuarantine 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 16時間前 (4子コメント)
Ok. let me break this down to you.
he told me that he's less attracted to me
How he feels
I've gained weight
Why he feels like that. Simple biological truth. He is telling you he doesn't feel sexually attracted to you which is one of the tenets of being in a relationship.
Let me ask you this... If you were to divorce him right now, right this second, and start dating again, do you think that ANY man would put up with how you treat your current spouse? Do you think he would stick around not having sex? Do you think he would accept you gaining more weight than you have already? Do you think he would accept being undermined and treated poorly? This is supposed to be the man you love and are married to, not some hypothetical dude who comes into your life. He is the real deal. He is asking you to put your best self first and you are failing at that. You shouldn't be hurt by this. He is telling you what his sexual preferences are. You are the one who fell out of that mold.
One thing I would do is bring exactly this problem to him.
"I have a hard time handling the children, working full time, and doing things for my self care like hair, nails, gym. What do you suggest I do about this?"
See what he says.
[–]missnewreddit[S] 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 16時間前 (3子コメント)
do you think that ANY man would put up with how you treat your current spouse? Do you think he would stick around not having sex? Do you think he would accept you gaining more weight than you have already? Do you think he would accept being undermined and treated poorly? This is supposed to be the man you love and are married to, not some hypothetical dude who comes into your life. He is the real deal. He is asking you to put your best self first and you are failing at that. You shouldn't be hurt by this. He is telling you what his sexual preferences are. You are the one who fell out of that mold.
I can't help but feel like this paints me as a monster who does nothing positive for our relationship. My defenses are up.
[–]CoochQuarantine 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 16時間前 (2子コメント)
I'm not trying to demonize you (even though it may come off like that) but in order to fix your side of the street you have to face the reality of your faults. That is the ONLY way you can fix them.
[–]missnewreddit[S] 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 15時間前 (1子コメント)
In a way it's easier to hear from a stranger because your opinion is unbiased. It still hurts though. I need to take a break.
I need to take a break.
Yes. Take a break. Let what we have said sink in. Come back again and re-read when your feelings have settled. Have you by any chance read the wiki stuff here? There is some great information in there on the dynamics of men and women that /u/Camille11325 has posted that might be worth looking into while you are digesting. It might also provide more insight to your man.
Read and follow this
π Rendered by PID 20426 on app-321 at 2016-08-05 09:25:24.928604+00:00 running 5750d8d country code: JP.
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