One of the common Disney, Societal Programming defenses of marriage looks something like this:
If you put any stock in studies undertaken by university scientists, you will find myriad examples of the benefits of marriage: 60% of single women reach the age of sixty-five, whereas 95% of married women do. Drug and alcohol abuse among 500,000 young test subjects dropped sharply among those who married. The University of Chicago recently conducted a study that showed married people make twice as much money, have twice as much sex and experience half the domestic violence as those who co-habitate, and the numbers are likely even higher when compared to those who don’t live together.
I have discussed marriage and divorce stats many times, particularly here and here, including how the stats can be twisted around into a pretzel to make all kinds of oddball points. Today, I’ll address these various “marriage is good for men” arguments. I’ll break down the above quote into each component, since each tend to be a common defense of traditional, monogamous, legal (non-prenuped) marriage.
60% of single women reach the age of sixty-five, whereas 95% of married women do.
This is talking about women obviously, but the same argument is made for men, in that some stats show that men and women tend to live longer when married. I addressed this point in item number 44 right here, but I’ll describe the problem with it more fully.
When you say something like “married people live longer than unmarried people”, you are comparing the typical married person with the typical unmarried person.
Now picture the typical guy who never gets married. Is he an Alpha Male? Is he a healthy, dynamic, motivated, decent-looking, socially calibrated, confident, happy man?
Actually, he’s usually the exact opposite. As much as I hate to say it, the never-married man is most likely an uber-nerd, extreme social recluse, or angry asshole. You know, an extreme MGTOW type or Japanese herbivore man. He never gets married not because he’s made the rational decision to maximize his long-term consistent happiness like an Alpha 2.0 would. Rather, the typical forever-unmarried guy never marries for reasons such as:
– He’s terrified of women.
– He’s angry at women.
– He has social problems.
– He’s got mental issues (Aspergers, etc.).
– He suffers from chronic depression, clinical or otherwise.
– He’s hugely overweight and thus is destined to live a shorter life with more medical problems.
– He’s an addict of some kind, and again is destined to live a shorter life with more medical problems.
– He’s a normal guy but dies much sooner than the average man for whatever reason, thus dying before he feels the pressure to “not die alone” and marry later in life as more and more men are doing. (These early dying men skew these stats upward just on their own.)
Drug and alcohol abuse among 500,000 young test subjects dropped sharply among those who married.
Of course it does, because drug addicts are less likely to get married. Drug addicts usually have pretty fucked up lives and are not viewed as good marriage material by the opposite sex.
Do you want to marry a heroin addict? Or even an ex-heroin addict? Or would you prefer to marry a woman who’s never done any hard drugs? I rest my case.
When people quote stats like this, they’re getting it backwards. They’re implying that people who do drugs get married and then suddenly stop because marriage is so awesome. (Yes, this can sometimes happen with unusual exceptions to the rule.) Or that large numbers of single people suddenly start doing drugs if they don’t get married by a particular age because being unmarried is so horrible. Both of these implications are obviously untrue.
The University of Chicago recently conducted a study that showed married people make twice as much money
First of all, this is horseshit. I have never seen a study where married men make double what single men make. I also notice that there is no source for this claim. However, to be fair, there are plenty of studies that show that married men tend to have higher incomes than single men.
It’s the same as with this drug thing. Men who make more money are more likely to get married because they are viewed as higher quality potential husbands to women. Do women want to marry the guy who makes $22,000 a year or the guy who makes $63,000 a year? Again, I rest my case.
In addition, the condition of being married drives your expenses upwards because wives and children cost so much damn money. This puts pressure on you to make more money as a married dude that a single guy doesn’t have. I’m not surprised at all that married men tend to make a little more than single guys who have no wife or kids who are constantly vacuuming money out of their wallets.
If marriage defenders want to accurately demonstrate how great marriage is for a man, they need to measure not the difference in gross income compared to a single man, but the amount of disposable income a married man has at the end of a typical month, after all household expenses, to spend as he chooses freely, vs. that of a single guy. This study will never be done of course, because we all know which of these two men has more monthly disposable cash and financial freedom.
have twice as much sex
Again, there is no study I have ever seen that shows married men have double the sex of unmarried men. However, if you search very hard, you will uncover a few studies where “married people have more sex” than unmarried people. Several folks have thrown a few of these studies at me over the years.
Every time you dig into the numbers of these studies, you always find that the only married people having more sex than unmarrieds are young married people, as in people in their early to mid 20s. Married people over 26 or 27 are having less sex than unmarried people.
If you’ve been reading this blog for a long time, you already know the reason for those numbers. Young married people haven’t been married very long, because they’re young. During the first few years of the marriage, you’re in new marriage NRE, and of course the two of you newlyweds are fucking like rabbits, probably every day.
Do married people fuck like rabbits every day throughout the entire marriage? Ha! Of course not, as just about every long-term married person will tell you. At first, newlyweds go crazy with the sex, but soon dreaded three-year mark arrives, and the amount of sex they have starts to drop like a stone, usually because the wife has reached her biological boredom point and she doesn’t want to fuck her husband anymore.
Then, congratulations, you are now having less sex than you did when you were unmarried, even if you weren’t getting laid very much when you were single. The increased sex you were getting during the first year or two of marriage (that these stats are reflecting) isn’t worth the decreased sex you’ll now experience for the next several decades (assuming you stay married that long of course, which, statically speaking, you will not; you’ll get divorced long before you reach “decades”).
I have said many times that the sexual activity of married people can only be measured accurately if you study/poll only people who have been married for longer than three years. Adding newlyweds to these studies artificially skews these numbers upward. If you’ve been married for 20 years, and have been having sex with your wife just three or four times a year for the past 18 years, does it really matter if you fucked like rabbits every day for the first two years? Of course not. The key number is the amount of sex you have throughout the entire marriage, not just the first 1-3 years when everything is new and exciting.
I have yet to see a study or poll on the sexual frequency of only married couples who have passed their three year mark. And I know why. Without the newlyweds artificially propping these numbers up, it would instantly murder this “married people have more sex” fallacy.
and experience half the domestic violence as those who co-habitate,
I have not seen this study, but again, if it’s true, violent people tend to be losers, and are less likely to get legally married because they will not be judged as good marriage material by the opposite sex. Violent men are violent men, period, as a static condition. The perfectly nice man who suddenly becomes a violent, physically abusive asshole right after he legally marries his wife is a common Hollywood trope, but it doesn’t exist in real life in any statistical size.
Any time someone says that marriage is good for a man and throws some of these silly stats at you, show them this article.
“Again, there is no study”
What about this?
https://www.quora.com/How-often-do-married-couples-have-sex
These number are terribly low but the case can be made, that singles have less sex than the other groups, even in “not-so-young” age groups.
They also make that claim about Church attendance.
People who go to Church are less likely to be bums.
The stats seem to bear that out. You’ve got to pull yourself together to
be “presentable.” It’s the same with marriage.
What’s your beef with M.G.T.O.W? Can’t they experience the best of
both worlds?
MUST ADD A TIME LIMIT or DEADLINE TO ALL MONOGAMOUS RELATIONSHIPS!
Marriage today should be broken up into 2 groups – Traditional and Modern. For more on the new modern concepts of marriage, I recommend a book called “THE I DO” by Susan Gadoua.
Traditional marriage simply does not work much anymore in the USA for a slew of reasons that anyone with any brains can figure out on their own. 80% of divorces are started by the women. They are usually the ones that want to be exclusive/married as well.
But why is this? It’s because we men give in to all their wishes and get too needy and tell them they HAVE US FOREVER! That’s right. We place them up on a pedestal way TOO MUCH in America. It has reverse effects and is counter intuitive as well. The only chance we have is to reverse this and make them realize they need to satisfy US instead. But you can’t come right out and say it like they can. Instead we add time limits and treat this stuff very coy and biz like is what I have found.
What is the key factor between a Traditional marriage and a Modern marriage? After dating a while now it is my theory that the BIGGEST key to ANY monogamous relationship is this: the man setting a deadline or time limit on when the relationship needs to be reevaluated for it to continue. Yep, just start with this tiny issue and it changes a lot! I didn’t say it changes everything or that it guarantees success but it is a game changer for sure.
If it is a Marriage: Tell her you require removing the wording “Until death do us apart” and see how she reacts. Tell her you want to add an Annual renewal clause to it as well.
If it is an exclusive relationship – tell her “let’s review this in 90 days OK” and she will respect you more or say no. But it’s usually telling as to her intentions and shows you are in charge. Plus it is just fun to f*ck with on this stuff cuz they don’t know what to say many times. People are so used to doing shit the same way and when someone throws them a curve ball, they freak out.
I have found that making it more Business like and less romantic like (less focus on “love”), might piss the ladies off initially but eventually they come to respect you for being a man and being smart about it. Cuz deep down inside they know they will just drop you like they did their other 3 exs too so why would you be any different? Now you have given them something to think about and set yourself apart from all the other morons.
Of course either one of you could call things off before the 90 days is up but that is not the point. What this does it places you, the man, in a power position and shows you are not too needy. It tells her she needs to stay on her feet just like you cuz she could be kicked out for a younger, prettier lady too.
By simply adding a time limit to reevaluate things and not having relationships open ended, you totally change the game in my opinion. I am in no way a believer in Traditional marriage or traditional exclusive relationships that do not have a time to reevaluate or contain words about “forever”, “till death” or anything remotely close to these. It will fail or cheating will occur 3 out 4 times probably.
Additionally, since I propose treating these relationships more like a business deal, don’t be afraid to add in post nups, pre nups and even do a polygraph exam before getting married. They only run $500 and could save you a hell of a lot of money down the road! If they will not do one, then you know to stay away. Calls her bluff at least. Maybe you really won’t do one but she may not know that.
By adding these renewal or reevaluation dates to your relationships, it could also have the added effect of a) preventing you from getting Oneitis; b) helps you keep some focus on self improvement; c) keeps YOU on your toes pleasing her as well; d) allows me to inform other ladies that I was talking to that I am in an exclusive relationship for at least 90 days to see if it will work out (funny the responses this gets from the ladies and this is another whole article by itself).
Another little thing I do for fun is I am always dropping new things on them (about every 60 to 90 days) that YOU are doing or going to do independently of them. For example – I told my GF other day I was running late for my lessons. She asked, “what lessons”. I said for my Brazilian Ju Jitsu lessons I am taking now. She was like, “oh didn’t know you were doing that?”. I said, “yep….been wanting to for a while now…” You can replace this with anything that betters yourself and 9 out of 10 times they will assume you are trying to impress other ladies and so they need to make sure they are keeping you happy. But it also makes you more attractive cuz you are doing things WITHOUT her approval. This is why I would keep finances totally separate as well.
Again to clarify – I am not for monogamous relationships really. But if you are gonna attempt it, add/remove the Time elements or it’s a complete waste of time.
This is a great article btw and my comments do not mean to take anything away from it. It is right on! But I do think that we men can change the game (or rules) a little bit if we just use our creativity and biz sense more!
Good luck gentlemen =)
PragerU have a video on the ‘benefits’ of marriage that’s getting roundly debunked with similar arguments to the ones you debunk here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtvfHnZMcOY
Basically, they argue that marriage is really ‘good’ for men because it turns them into good, obedient, church-going, hard-working man-slaves. I wish I was kidding.
They put the ‘marriage premium’ at a 20% increase in earnings, which is not remotely enough when you consider the fact that you’ll be paying for a wife and kids.
Why do men (in this day and age) get married at all???? Solely because marriage became the norm and not enough men think outside the box to see that marriage is a total anachronism.
If men would stop getting married, thus giving women value beyond their worth, relationships would become more evenly balanced. By the way, I love women and enjoy their company and the passion that can go with some very, very happy times. But I don’t need to marry one.
Within a marriage, eventually, one partner will come to resent the other. Once resentment has arrived, nothing can save a relationship.
Totally agree if you are a MAN. If you are a woman, than it can be a great deal for you lol =)
The man will be blamed for all the bad and never given credit for any of the good. It’s her way of providing herself with a good excuse to take your money.
Besides, who in the right mind wants to spend $5k on a stupid ring that devalues, another $5k on a cake and dress, be told what kind of house and school district you gotta live in, and then be bossed around in Lowes in front of all the other single free men! It’s embarrassing and makes us look like the morons we have been for many years. Simply put, marriage in the USA is a Scam plain & simple…..
I love that stat that says married men have SO much more sex. That’s the biggest crock of shit I’ve ever read. All married men and women I know barely have sex after a few years as BD stated. The women are not attracted to the nice beta man they married and probably never really were to begin with. They just wanted Mr. safe and stable at that point in their life when marriage pressure was on full blast.
I have more sex now than I ever did when I was in a traditional LTR back in the day AND with more than one woman. The variety keeps me happy and honestly keeps the girls happier too since I’m always more amorous with them due to that variety. Good old Coolidge Effect at play!
“…have twice as much sex”
Well in all fairness they didn’t say they had sex with each other, they’re probably having loads of sex with people other than their partner! Haha.
@Arthur
I just saw this same video recently, probably from a similar site to this one. It does make one barf in one’s mouth a bit. They are essentially saying marriage makes you a good little lap dog and corporate wage slave. Hooray! Even the voice in the video screams beta male. Oh yea and Dennis Prager is on marriage # 3-must be working out great for him.
You should debate Stefan Molyneux.
Wow, you can practically see the desperation to save monogamy oozing from the article.
As BD said once, harems and then later monogamy were introduced to society by desperate men in power to force fidelity onto their wives and prevent other men from touching them.
Times have changed now. We can do what we want without being stoned to death. Amongst the greatest perks of a chaotic but free world.
Because the U.S. is not and has not been a traditional country for a very long time.
As I always say, you got to dig into the study and really look at the numbers and where they got them. I glanced at it and those numbers to not represent the numbers from the Kinsey 2010 study that I remember. When I get more time I’ll look into it.
I have a huge article coming next week (or the week after) that answers that question in great detail.
If they’re the pro-sex, pro-money MGTOW (like me), they can. If they’re the “I’m going to be a loser because what’s the point?” MGTOW, they can’t.
At a minimum, a time limit to when the relationship will either end or when one of you cheats (thereby not making it monogamous anymore).
Yeah, I saw that video. It was so ridiculous it wasn’t worth even mentioning.
It’s a shame, since PragerU has some really fantastic videos on economics and history. As usual, right-wingers are half right.
1. Outdated Societal Programming (“Well, how else can you have kids???”)
2. Irrational “I don’t want to die alone” thoughts as they get older. (Possibly valid only for men over age 60.)
Deep down, everyone knows that already.
The only marriages where married people are having a lot of regular sex past the three year mark are the very odd exceptions to the rule or marriages that are not monogamous (open, swinger, poly, cheating, etc). At least 15% of marriages are open / swinger / poly and marital studies aren’t going to break these out into their own category, nor are people going to admit on these surveys that they’re cheating.
Exactly.
Yep. That’s the second problem with traditional conservatives: hypocrisy. “It doesn’t work and it didn’t work for me but you need to do it anyway!”
I’m going to. He and I have already discussed it. It will be a while though. My calendar is a little full at the moment.
@Al
I don’t know whether to consider it tragedy or comedy, but it’s amazing how most of the human race will adapt so quickly to something like the latest iphone with the newest apps for a marginal amount of convenience or entertainment. Contrast this to big picture decisions like marriage, or the job you do for 40+ hours a week and most people really seem to not think or care too much and will often waste years on end in married to a person they don’t even like anymore or working a job they can’t stand. It’s like everyone’s brain is a generation behind where we actually are when it comes to things like social institutions and politics. However, we’re on the cutting edge of finding newer and better ways to mash away at pieces of plastic with buttons.
So true lol! Add to this many men will go buy a $300k house that their new wife HAS to have just after they spent thousands on the ring, wedding and honeymoon to prove to her she is worthy?!@#$%
When a chic brings up marriage shit now, I just say “sure babe as long as we can agree to do all of this stuff I might consider taking on that kind of crazy nuts risk”. Then I just pull out this huge list of my requirements (as a fun prank):
– full online tracking of our cells and all text messages and calls 24/7
– full online tracking of both of our cars 24/7
– full access to everyone’s email and social media accounts
– prenup, postnup and share the cost
– sex on demand for both of us but must be a minimum of 3 x per week
– we must work or keep the house clean and cook
– we must stay about the same weight we are now
– since our private parts are of equal value, we must split all wedding costs equal so that neither feels less valuable to the other
– both cannot be in college at same time
– we both take a polygraph exam before marriage and can request one be done on the other at any time
– we both get STD tested every 6 months
– neither can play w another member of the opposite sex unless their partner does and it can only be same person they played with
– anything/everything sexual in nature must occur together
– threesomes are permitted as long as they meet the 2 requirements above
– we split all expenses or its a fair split based on our income and have to get big purchases over $50 pre-approved by the other
– credit check, background check
– we both get to take a vacation away from the other every year
– we both get to have friends the other does not know of or ever meet if we choose to
– we both get to have our own man cave or room in the house that is ours
– if we are watching a new movie or TV series, both must shut up or leave the room!
====
I keep a very serious face and say, “so what do you think?” like I am hoping she says “yes” lol.
Priceless