全 73 件のコメント

[–]DrDoctor13Why is good help so impossible to find? 44ポイント45ポイント  (20子コメント)

A summary of Fallout through the ages:

Fallout 1 and 2: Top-down isometric RPGs set in a postapocalyptic retrofuturistic America. The sequel is a direct continuation of the first game (you are the son/daughter of your character in FO1) and is even more well received than the first. Both are well received by critics and gamers alike. The stories for both center around fighting for your people (your Vault in Fallout 1, your kidnapped village in Fallout 2) and the endgame is objectively good. However, both games give you the option to be evil and side with the villain, completely changing the ending. Both games also had several ending factors and your impact on settlements and people groups are told to you through a slideshow. The entire ending could be changed just by picking a perk (look up the Bloody Mess ending).

Fallout 3: Bethesda buys the rights to the Fallout series from Interplay and gets to work making their spin on the series. That's a HUGE oversimplification of what really happened, but it works for this. Fans and critics were eager to see how Bethesda, riding on the acclaimed Elder Scrolls series, would tackle the classic RPG series. Fallout 3 releases with a bonkers story and first-person gameplay but manages to retain mechanics from the classic RPGs to keep old-school fans happy. These mechanics include, but are not limited to: Unique items, skills, perks, and karma. Fallout 3 receives critical acclaim. The plot itself is a mishmash of the Fallout 1 and 2 plot but nonetheless feels like Fallout. There are only two possible endings (later retconned with DLC, predating Mass Effect 3's blunder) and the slideshow is hugely oversimplified.

Fallout: New Vegas: Developed by Obsidian, a company full of the original devs from Fallout 1 and 2, and made in just 18 months in the Fallout 3 engine. New Vegas releases to "okay" critical reception, critics citing bugs and a general lack of polish as downsides, but praising improved shooting mechanics and a much better story. New Vegas keeps skills and perks and adds traits, along with reputation and an improved, more weighty karma system. The game is frequently cited by many as the "best" Fallout game due to its superior story and accessibility to new players. The game's four DLC packs also tell one coherent story that adds depth to the player character's background and show other locations in the Fallout world, such as Utah. Like the old Fallouts, New Vegas has many ending factors and a main plot that doesn't require an emotional connection to anyone or anything. Any character, regardless of importance to the plot, can be killed, and the game's main quest still continues. An entire DLC can be skipped by killing one NPC (Honest Hearts, look up Chaos in Zion). The game's final boss can be bypassed with Speech and Barter checks up to 100, making many skills useful. It is also possible to use your skills to bypass entire sections of quests. Many side quests also have branching paths in themselves, certain endings rewarding you reputation with certain groups, good/bad karma, and rewards. Due to the short development time, Obsidian's vision could never be fully realized, which is evident by the Legion, an idea left over from a cancelled Fallout game that couldn't be fleshed out due to time constraints.

Fallout 4: Bethesda's shot at a Fallout sequel manages to improve on the beauty of the world, crafting, and shooting, but a lack of focus on story and player mechanics create a muddled mess of a Fallout game. Skills and traits are gone, everything is now decided through perks. Any skill checks are replaced with Charisma checks, meaning you can persuade an NPC more easily the higher your Charisma stat is, but it is still a dice roll, i.e. you have no guaranteed success, unlike skill checks in Fallout 1-New Vegas. The plot tries to make you focus on losing a wife/husband and child you have no connection to and generally has no open-ended gameplay. All quests end one way, and the game can end one of two ways. The war on synths has no relevance to your character, since every Fallout protagonist before the Sole Survivor has been invested in the main conflict since it affected the world they lived in. The SS is a man out of time and has no connection to the Commonwealth. Fallout 4 also misses the potential of moral games with the synths, asking the question of "what makes a person a person." Far Harbor does this beautifully. Bethesda also added the settlement building mechanic, and given the amount of DLC for it, it's obvious that it was their focus. Hardcore fans felt betrayed, as the season pass now gets them a bunch of DLC for a section of the game they likely won't use and was advertised as "completely optional."

Fallout 4 is, in no way, a bad game. It's a right awful Fallout game, but it's not a bad game on its own.

[–]ScienceBrah401Who doesn't want badass stuff?[S] 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

Wow, thanks for this summary! After reading up I guess I completely agree about FO4.

[–]DrDoctor13Why is good help so impossible to find? 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

You mentioned in another post that you didn't know much about Fallout as a whole. I highly recommend picking up New Vegas on Steam or, if you're brave, I can hook you up with GOG versions of Fallout 1 and 2. Either way, you'll get a taste of "true" Fallout and what many people here compare Fallout 4 to.

[–]ScienceBrah401Who doesn't want badass stuff?[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wow, thanks!

Yeah, this is my first Fallout game and I suck, lol. I run out of ammo, combat is tricky, overwhelmed by amount of stuff to do, etc.

Still having a blast. HaHaHa

[–]LethalPirate 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd recommend New Vegas over everything else. It looks a bit dated, but with some nice mods it'll look fantastic. Story, plot, and just everything feels great and for $12 for the game and all the DLC it's a great deal.

[–]WyrdHarper 5ポイント6ポイント  (7子コメント)

I actually don't mind the switch to the perk system necessarily, but they missed a huge opportunity to have perk skill checks with it. Probably limited by the voiced main character (which is kind of annoying), but they could have added some really interesting dialogue trees to add some flavor to the world since some of the perks have broader implications to the character.

[–]DrDoctor13Why is good help so impossible to find? 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

What bugs me about it is that it harshly limits what you can do.

Skyrim's perk system can easily be seen as a basis for Fallout 4's. Every perk has levels, and using your perk points increase the power these perks have. However, in Skyrim, you could still become better at things more than one at a time. I'm alone in liking Skyrim's dynamic skill system in that skills leveled up the more you used them but at least it was something.

In Fallout 1, 2, 3, AND NV, your levels allow you to decide what you become better at. You can put all of your skill points into one thing and get a huge boost in that skill for that level, or layout your skill points and have a more rounded character. Fallout 4 breaks that. You can become good at one thing at a time and that's it. Leveling up in Fallout 4 certainly feels easier, but perks being tied to skills in that way feels horrendously slow. It's not realistic, sensible, or even in line with other RPGs, video game or tabletop.

I'm sure an hour or two of my FO4 playtime is spent looking at the perk chart planning how I'll use my valuable perk points next. Do I need more damage from pistols? Have I been using my two-handed weapons more or have I been relying on pistols? What about getting better cap prices at stores? Or lockpicking harder locks? In older Fallout, I can divide my points into many of those skills at once and make them better and better with time. Or, I can afford to not level up a skill as much, knowing I have skill magazines and outfits that give me skill bonuses.

[–]GGAllinsMicroPenisI'm Todd Howard's Spirit Animal AMA 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's even worse than you describe it, because you can't even get good at one thing without grinding out radiant quests and Raider genocide for like 50 hours. With Skills in F3 and NV you could have 100 sneak or lockpicking or guns by level 6 or 7. I could be an absolute expert at one thing, and be total horseshit at everything else. That's roleplaying, that's player freedom. That's the spirit of "choice and consequence," the very thing they nearly entirely removed from Fallout 4, and is, in my stupid but awesome opinion, the very essence of what makes an RPG an RPG

In Fallout 4, I can't even top off my perks until level 42 or so because of the level wall, so no matter what I do I'm having to slowly level up perks in a spread-out, jack-of-all trades fashion. There is no 'expert' level specialist that sucks at everything else. There's no roleplaying whatsoever. You're not building a unique character beyond shit like, "dur I like punch things, dur no I change mind I like shoot things now!" Every person who played Fallout 4 generally levelled up about the same. You're a fucking walking manilla envelope. It's boring and streamlined.

They cut the game's fucking balls off and for the life of me I can't understand it.

edit: you know what? I think I have about 8 or 9 level ups just sitting on my character that I've had there for literally 100+ hours. I don't even barely fucking use them in F4. I didn't even realize what a fucking indictment that is of the game until right now. Their leveling system is so fucking anti-RPG I don't even give an ass about levelling up. Jesus christ they fucked this game up so bad.

[–]WyrdHarper 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yeah, it might have been better if you leveled slowly like in older games and got multiple perks per level, which would have been more similar to the older system. I also really think they could have done more with the character backstory in FO4 and given them a set of perks based on questions in the beginning (eg. "in the army" has a lot of possible options--maybe you were an army veterinarian and would start of with some perks in Medic, Animal Friend, and guns or something).

[–]DrDoctor13Why is good help so impossible to find? 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

That would've been neat, but it would've restricted freedom in how characters can be built for FO4. I mean, that's pointless, seeing as FO4 is the most restrictive Fallout game in terms of character builds, but...they tried?

[–]GGAllinsMicroPenisI'm Todd Howard's Spirit Animal AMA 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

November 12, 2011. Rockville, Maryland. Bethesda Game Studios Conference Room A. We join a Fallout 4 pre production meeting in progress. A mid-level designer is addressing upper management...

"Ok guys, I've got it. We've got this hugely popular IP in the RPG genre, Fallout 3, and we have a ton of data about how hardcore our fans are about our RPGs. So check it out. This is genius. Let's basically take out every kind of choice for a character build we possibly can while still technically being able to put the letters R-P-G on the packaging. So like, for instance, remember "Skills?" Yeah. Fuck those, roll them into Perks, sort of but sort of not. Doesn't matter. Point is most people didn't like the Skyrim levelling system, so I have an idea about how to make it actually way way worse. Check it dudes: make every single perk they take capped at some level wall. Like, 8, then 19, then 30, then 50. Doesn't matter. Point being is make it so they have to pick a bunch of low level perks, and nothing else for the whole first half of the game! Now don't forget, skills are gone, just to really make sure there's no way to make a unique buil-.

[Todd Howard goes to high five Emil Pagliarulo but misses and slaps his forehead].

Emil screams:
HATE HIGH FIVES?!
SUPPORT HIGH FIVES?!
SARCASTIC HIGH FIVES?!
WHAT ARE HIGH FIVES?!

"OK Ok ok settle down gents. Next up I have this idea about how we can build like a good hearty 3 towns for the game and, get this, make the players build the rest themselves and pretend it's a feature."

[Emil turns to Todd and gives him slow motion Vault Boy thumbs up].

[–]WyrdHarper 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't mean only those perks--just give you a set to start off with, so that you aren't as pressured in the beginning since you'd have a few ready to go.

[–]DrDoctor13Why is good help so impossible to find? 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ah, I see what you mean. Like one of those Alternate Start mods or the Character Creation Overhaul from Skyrim.

Yeah...what could've been...

[–]ergele -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

Also note this, fo4 has superior companions and with superior interactions. And fo4's world design is better than new vegas's. But it also lacks the feeling of the desperateness (greenish sky, slavers, communities with fucked up or utterly odd practises, eerie vaults, tranquilty lane) of fallout 3 so fo4 is like an avant garde art piece. But you can build settlements and shiet in 1080p sooo worth it!

[–]Orphan_Script 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's all highly debatable.

[–]DrDoctor13Why is good help so impossible to find? 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

The companions and their interactions in FO4 are pretty great, but world design...eh.

Using New Vegas as an example here, every location not only has reputation but also sides with or against a certain faction. These locations are also usually pretty quirky and offer several sidequests. I didn't even mention it in my giant post but New Vegas sidequests are nearly 100% of the time something more than "go to X, kill Y, get Z." These dialogue-heavy quests get you interested in the affairs of this town or faction and builds a better world. On the surface, FO4's world is more...pretty, but when there's only a handful of interesting towns and the rest of it is workshops and raider encampments, you learn to appreciate that the world design of NV may feel more bland but has more depth.

I did say earlier that FO3's story was bonkers, and everything being awful is one of those things that made it bonkers (200 years since the bombs, what were all you people doing?!), but I loved seeing the slavers and other settlements/colonies that were messed up. It gave the world a bleak atmosphere and feel that rewarded exploration.

[–]ccpolarbear -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd say that it's a fucking great Fallout game. Just because it's a little different from the others doesn't make it a bad Fallout game. It bears the Fallout license, has the Fallout story/lore, etc. If you think it's not really an RPG, fine, but quit with this "it's an awful Fallout game" nonsense.

[–]BilBoSwagginS-28Drink. Some *Water*. -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wouldn't go that far and say it's an abomination of a Fallout game but it was pretty mediocre compared to the previous titles. However it still felt like Fallout to me and I enjoyed references to the older games. Like Shady Sands, NCR, West Tek, Enclave etc

[–]SkullDuggery69NCR -4ポイント-3ポイント  (2子コメント)

They're not Isometric.

[–]DrDoctor13Why is good help so impossible to find? 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes they are. This is what isometric perspective looks like.

[–]Devdev007NCR -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

(Copy/pasted from Dictionary.com)

Designating a method of projection (isometric projection) in which a three-dimensional object is represented by a drawing having the horizontal edges of the object drawn usually at a 30° angle and all verticals projected perpendicularly from a horizontal base, all lines being drawn to scale.

[–]GingerSwanGNRNORMIES GET OUT OF NECROPOLIS REEEE 9ポイント10ポイント  (27子コメント)

writing is terrible, not much player choice or RPG elements.

it focuses too much on combat rather than story or writing.

[–]ScienceBrah401Who doesn't want badass stuff?[S] 7ポイント8ポイント  (26子コメント)

But the environment is really good, and the weapon mods and settlement is really awesome.

...Right?

[–]Its_DVNO 8ポイント9ポイント  (17子コメント)

Yeah, but who gives a fuck, that's not what Fallout is about.

Fallout is about player freedom rather than the illusion of freedom. It's about facing consequences rather than the illusion of consequences. It's about meeting three dimensional interesting and bizarre people, guessing their motives and poking them from all sides with some interrogation to see what makes them tick. With Fallout 4, Every character loudly announces their one trait that makes them quirky and their relevance in your personal agenda to get your son back. Preston loves the Minutemen and that's it. Piper loves that paper press and that's it. Nick loves detective work, wants to kill Eddie Winter and that's it. Cait loves hard drugs and that's it. Strong loves milk. You can't get to know any of the NPCs in the game, it's the same for all of them. They throw it all at you at the first introductory sentence because the developers are too scared of confusing you and that's the entirety of character depth. Oh, and speaking of character depth, we have a voiced protagonist now, which could have been pulled off if he or she had the charisma and range of a Commander Shepard or a Geralt, but the shoes they are asking me to fill are that of an incompetent concerned parent with zero self awareness that just feels gross to play. It feels like he or she is always fighting me every step of the way to be a badass or influence on this world in a meaningful way. And while they try to frame it as a personal story, halfway through the game it somehow switches itself into a full blown epic story like Skyrim against all logic. Fallout is about being and insignificant agent in larger events. What were you a general of in the first thirty minutes of Fallout 1? Fallout 2? NV?

Fallout is a game about philosophy. It's about thinking on larger themes like resource depletion, war, and human ambition. It's about stareing out on a red sunset across a wasted landscape and questioning yourself on how you should tackle it. what are your ethics going to be this time around on this playthrough? What if you try this and how will it effect that? What happens on a total pacifist run? What happens if I play the game with 1 Int?

Fallout 4 is shooting people / things in the face until the game forces you to pick four flavors, 'world peace brown', 'synth genocide gray', 'synth liberator red', and 'keeper of the status quo white'. Congratulations! Your son dies no matter what, the game continues on no matter what, and no one acknowledges you any differently despite being the greatest wasteland hero to ever anything in the world ever, who has created a whole kingdom of settlements for themselves overnight. Not even your own citizenry reacts to you in any way. Hell, half the time they'll still accuse you of being a synth spy even if you wipe out all the synths and they were in visual distance of the fireball.

so that's why I hate it. It is in fact a game. Some mechanics in that game are even not bad for a shooter from around 2010-ish (It's no Call of Duty Advanced Warfare in that department either, let's get real) . But it's not a Fallout game in any of the aspects that matter to me as a roleplayer.

[–]ScienceBrah401Who doesn't want badass stuff?[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (16子コメント)

So it's not a Fallout game in the fact that it has little RPG elements. Your choices are shallow and the game is just about shooting people.

[–]flipdark95Brotherhood I make stuff I guess 1ポイント2ポイント  (15子コメント)

The problem with that main complaint... is that Fallout 4 does have choice and it isn't just about shooting people. People ignore choices you do during the game in favor of picking at moments where you logically should not have a choice to affect the outcome anyway. They ignore choices you make during the main quest and they ignore choices you make during sidequests. And it seems to be the case that they simply don't like how it wasn't the choice they wanted to personally make, which means it's their personal dislike and not the game's fault and not the game's duty to cater to them personally.

For example, one of the most general complaints is about how the player can't talk down or convince one of the main antagonists of the game and must kill them. They think the player should have the choice to show mercy or to convince the antagonist to leave the wasteland or - even weirder - join them as a actual companion.

The problem is that said antagonist has already made his choice of facing the player. He wants to fight the player. He expects the player to fight them. And he won't run from the fight. It's part of his character that he won't run.

And yet the complaint expects the player to somehow convince that antagonist to give up or even better actually join them on their adventures.

[–]payl0adI love the smell of plasma in the morning. 2ポイント3ポイント  (10子コメント)

They ignore choices you make during the main quest

What choice is there except for the faction you want to support?

I only remember the choice whether to sound the alarm and evacuate people from the Institute during The Nuclear Option. And that was pretty much a given, depending on which faction you chose.

[–]flipdark95Brotherhood I make stuff I guess 0ポイント1ポイント  (9子コメント)

There's choices to support people like during the Railroad quests while working with your contact in the Institute. He wants to peacefully help the Synths escape with nobody getting hurt while the Synth you work with wants weapons to fight their way out since he thinks they can't escape without fighting back. And if you choose to betray the Institute and side with the Brotherhood during Mass Fusion, that choice you make results in that railroad mission falling through and the Railroad giving you a plan B which involves the Minutemen.

And of course the choice to evacuate people from the Institute is definitely one as well. And there's also the choice of being enemies with the Brotherhood resulting in a war between your faction and them even after the Institute has been destroyed.

[–]payl0adI love the smell of plasma in the morning. 1ポイント2ポイント  (8子コメント)

Yeah, also, you get to choose whether to kill Danse or not when siding with the BoS. And you get to choose whether to fight the BoS when you side with the Minutemen. This still doesn't influence if there is branching in the quest lines or not. Outcome is still essentially the same. And all of these choices boil down to "which faction do you want to support?".

There is no way to find a peaceful resolution to the main quest. The ending is still the same on each playthrough, except for who blows up the Institute / Prydwen.

[–]flipdark95Brotherhood I make stuff I guess 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

Well, that's how it is in other Fallout games too. I'm not saying you can literally force every faction in the game to compromise or come to a peaceful resolution, because that's doesn't make sense as a choice anyway. I'm just saying there are choices during the main quest that can vastly affect the flow of it before the end.

[–]payl0adI love the smell of plasma in the morning. 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

Well, that's how it is in other Fallout games too.

Only in FO3. You can choose to support the Master/the Enclave/the Legion in FO1, FO2 and FNV. Completely changes the outcome of the main quest.

[–]Its_DVNO 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

... Okay? Cherrypick your own examples of these excellent branching sidequest choice moments and explain how they affect the main quest in a significant way, then. Hell, it's a big game, I might have missed something.

[–]flipdark95Brotherhood I make stuff I guess -4ポイント-3ポイント  (2子コメント)

First of all, I didn't say that choices you make in sidequests affect the main quest in Fallout 4. Sidequests have never done that in Fallout 3, or in New Vegas, and it's the same in Fallout 4. Edit: Seriously, look at nearly every sidequest you can do in Fallout New Vegas. Do any of them affect the main quest at all? Does destroying the Legion at Nelson lock you out of siding with the Legion from that point on? Does delivering a message to the NCR from Vulpes make the NCR suspicious of your intentions? Is there any point at all where a sidequest influences the main quest in New Vegas?

But as I said before, there are still choices to make during the majority of sidequests in Fallout 4. You can choose to help Ironside's crew or betray them to the scavengers and watch them all get scrapped for parts and the USS Independence looted. You can choose to help Jack Cabot stop the release of his mad father and then destroy the serum the family uses to stop aging, or to help the father kill Jack, kill his family and then get personal use of the serum on yourself. The Silver Shroud quest gives you the choice to save Kent or watch him die.

There's multiple choices in the sidequests. And just like other Fallout games, they don't drastically impact the main questline because for the most part they're unrelated.

[–]Orphan_Script 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Two things:

First of all, I didn't say that choices you make in sidequests affect the main quest in Fallout 4. Sidequests have never done that in Fallout 3, or in New Vegas, and it's the same in Fallout 4.

This isn't true. One noteable example is dealing with the fiends and camp mccaran in New Vegas. You're initially supposed to take out a few fiend ringleaders. Doing so gets positive reception from NCR citizens around the game. Once they are all cleared out, it takes pressure off of the military. They are able to divert the First Recon sniper team to Camp Forlone Hope, which is basically the front line against the Legion. In doing so, you've drastically affacted the balance of power in the war. From now on, those sharp shooters will appear at Forlorn Hope. You can convince one of them to seek treatment for PTSD she sustained while fighting one of the fiends you killed. Doing all of this greatly increases your chances of successfully retaking Nelson with minimal NCR casualties, if that's the route you decide to go.

From the same location, you can get a quest that involves investigating fraudulent radio reports. The end result of this quest- again, depending on how you handle it- is that you prevent the outright sabotage of the next battle of Hoover Dam. Saving hundreds of lives, changing the way things in Vegas will play out in the end, etc. You can also resolve supply line issues that improve the living/working conditions of NCR outposts all over the Mojave. And it does show during the final battle.

So there you go- sidequests that directly affect the world and very important to the narrative, while still remaining completely optional. Camp Forlorn Hope is a pretty remote location too, I don't think anything actually prompts you to go there. Fallout 1 and 2 are full of these instances as well. Fallout 3, not so much.

You can choose to help Jack Cabot stop the release of his mad father and then destroy the serum the family uses to stop aging, or to help the father kill Jack, kill his family and then get personal use of the serum on yourself. The Silver Shroud quest gives you the choice to save Kent or watch him die.

There are two things people refer to when they talk about 'choice' in gaming. One is like this- narrative choice. Does this character live or die? Etc. The other is choice in mechanics. How can my character use their traits to resolve this situation? What differentiates my scientist character from your gunslinger character. Ideally, both kinds of choice work together. They reward you for character building, they enhance the narrative by allowing you to explore other possibilities, and they allow for replayability by giving you multiple ways to complete your objectives. Fallout 4 has some of the first kind, but is largely absent of the second. In all of your examples, the quest is functionally the same up until the very end, at which point you can make a narrative choice. To get to that point, you shoot up a building full of people and fight your way to a certain conversation. I think everybody appreciates that there at least is a decision (sometimes), but this is an entirely differently complaint depending on how you look at it.

[–]flipdark95Brotherhood I make stuff I guess -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This isn't true. One noteable example is dealing with the fiends and camp mccaran in New Vegas. You're initially supposed to take out a few fiend ringleaders. Doing so gets positive reception from NCR citizens around the game. Once they are all cleared out, it takes pressure off of the military. They are able to divert the First Recon sniper team to Camp Forlone Hope, which is basically the front line against the Legion. In doing so, you've drastically affacted the balance of power in the war. From now on, those sharp shooters will appear at Forlorn Hope. You can convince one of them to seek treatment for PTSD she sustained while fighting one of the fiends you killed. Doing all of this greatly increases your chances of successfully retaking Nelson with minimal NCR casualties, if that's the route you decide to go.

My point is that none of this impacts the final battle itself or the main questline itself. And there's no change to what can happen with Nelson because I've literally done playthroughs where I've taken the entire town by myself without the NCR at level 10 or 12. Having the troopers and First Recon there doesn't even make a impact beyond them simply being present.

From the same location, you can get a quest that involves investigating fraudulent radio reports. The end result of this quest- again, depending on how you handle it- is that you prevent the outright sabotage of the next battle of Hoover Dam. Saving hundreds of lives, changing the way things in Vegas will play out in the end, etc.

Except you're told that happens, but you never see the effects of what happens. There's no point in the actual final battle where the outcome of your sidequest to upgrade radios actually changes anything or aids you or the NCR.

You can also resolve supply line issues that improve the living/working conditions of NCR outposts all over the Mojave. And it does show during the final battle.

Again, no it doesn't. Those sidequests about giving food to the NCR troops or fixing supply lines, such as the quest at Camp Forlorn Hope, do nothing that actually changes anything during the final battle.

Problem is none of these effects are actually shown in the battle itself. Some are, granted, such as you being able to request help from the Followers and from the Rangers if you do their sidequests during the battle. That I do like because it does affect some kind of change.

The other is choice in mechanics. How can my character use their traits to resolve this situation? What differentiates my scientist character from your gunslinger character. Ideally, both kinds of choice work together. They reward you for character building, they enhance the narrative by allowing you to explore other possibilities, and they allow for replayability by giving you multiple ways to complete your objectives. Fallout 4 has some of the first kind, but is largely absent of the second

Again, this is also the case with New Vegas. I agree that ideally I'd love to see a game where both kinds of choices are equally present. Where there are narrative choices and there are mechanic choices. But the problem I find is that both Fallout New Vegas and Fallout 4 share is that skill checks - whether they are present or not in dialogue - don't actually influence the outcome of a quest that much. All it does is get you some slightly different dialogue in your conversation and leads to the same set of outcomes you'd get progressing normally.

In any case, this is a different complaint entirely. This isn't related to whether sidequests in FNV or FO4 affect the main questline or not. Because from what I've experienced in both games, they don't. If a quest affects the main story, it's part of the main questline already.

[–]GingerSwanGNRNORMIES GET OUT OF NECROPOLIS REEEE 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Eh, F1 still rules supreme for environment.

Yeah, the settlement system is great, and so are weapon mods.

But you can still get RTS and WMX for NV for both of those ;)

[–]ScienceBrah401Who doesn't want badass stuff?[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Very true. ;)

[–]SUBJUGATOR001Ghouls in Rockets 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yes but it's just the other things that are bad

[–]ScienceBrah401Who doesn't want badass stuff?[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's also pretty fun to just blast heads off and jam to 50's tunes.

[–]Kevin_Wolf 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

You can do that in the other two 3D Fallouts, too.

[–]ScienceBrah401Who doesn't want badass stuff?[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, but Fallout 4 is my first Fallout game, and I haven't had a chance to do that before.

[–]DGT-exeYou oughtta think about enlisting. -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's funny how you have to ask "right" on your opinions. If you liked something about a game, you don't have to ask for others' approvals.

[–]SirBojangelz 5ポイント6ポイント  (10子コメント)

BEFORE YOU LISTEN TO ANYONE ELSE:

Form your own opinion!

Most people in this thread are gonna hate on it, if you are enjoying it, good on you!

But generally people don't like it because it's less of an RPG. (Watered down for consoles, imo)

[–]Leonir01Minutemen 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

I've always been confused by watered down for console argument. I wasn't around the video game community too much around Morrowind's release, but as far as I'm aware, it was rather well received on XBox. Making the UI more for consoles is understandable if that's where they sell the most copies, but other than that, it seems like console gamers at the time were fine with having a complex game.

[–]FadlanuWelcome Home 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, I finished Fallout 3 on PS3 when I still was peasant back in 2009. It was a blast and the complexity wasn't a problem on console. Fun part: It didn't crash/broke my save or anything despite everyone talking about PS3 version being worst and crashy.

[–]ScienceBrah401Who doesn't want badass stuff?[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

I like it as a post-apocalyptic shooter, and love the environment and crafting, plus settlement building. Maybe I need to brush up on what "Fallout" is.

[–]templar_Paladin Trance 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

If you bought Fallout as a post-apocalyptic shooter, then you're on the wrong train. Try Metro or S.T.A.L.K.E.R, they're both dyed in the wool shooters not RPGs. Metro is more of a straight shooter, whereas S.T.A.L.K.E.R is more of a survival game, both have strong horror elements.

[–]ScienceBrah401Who doesn't want badass stuff?[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

No, I didn't. I bought it because I love the lore and story of Fallout and think they are awesome games.

[–]templar_Paladin Trance -4ポイント-3ポイント  (4子コメント)

"FO4 is my first Fallout game"

Bethesda is a bad storyteller. You like Fallout 4, try the others. If they're not for you, Metro and S.T.A.L.K.E.R are 2 brilliant games in their own rights.

[–]ScienceBrah401Who doesn't want badass stuff?[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

I like RPGs and I didn't come to Fallout just for a shooter. :)

[–]templar_Paladin Trance 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah, so play the others, start with 3 then NV, then the originals in order. But be warned, the originals won't explain themselves and will murder you without warning.

[–]ScienceBrah401Who doesn't want badass stuff?[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Uh oh.

[–]TheUnspeakableHorrorStray Cat Struttin' 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

What he means is they don't do nearly the kind of hand-holding modern games do. The dev expect their players to think and pay attention.

There's no quest markers, and nothing to just point you where you're supposed to go. If you want to have a clue what's going on, you have to explore everything, talk to everyone and even read the game manual.

There's no scaling to your level. Take on an opponent that's too strong for you, and expect to get stomped on mercilessly.

There's no essential NPCs. It's entirely possible to accidentally kill someone you need and completely screw any chance of finishing the main quest- something you won't find in Bethesda's games.

This is pretty much the way most games were back in the 90's. They didn't take it easy on you and give you a way to win no matter what. You had to work for it, and (to me at least) that's what made them fun and challenging.

[–]ADCBot 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I finished Fallout 4 for the first time and I really enjoyed it. The only problem I had was the voice options tidings seem like that mattered at all. You can say one thing but it will just go back to the main topic telling you to do this or that. I also hated the vague the voice choices were. For example, you would have "sarcastic" and have no idea what you were about to say. I did however liked how you can side with the different factions which had different beliefs.

This was my first Fallout game and I plan on picking up New Vegas next because of the good I hear about Obsidian, and how they should make the next Fallout.

[–]nater0 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I was thinking about this today and realized that, though this game has problems that are quite universal (abysmal performance on console, for instance), there are other issues with the writing and world building that only really stick out to people who played previous games. If you're enjoying the game, that's great. No need for anyone to convince you to feel otherwise.

[–]ScienceBrah401Who doesn't want badass stuff?[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Okay. :)

[–]Zack123456201 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

I love it but I hate it. It's the best post apocalyptic shooter I've ever played, but it's the worst post apocalyptic role playing game I've played, which is what Fallout was originally meant to be.

[–]ScienceBrah401Who doesn't want badass stuff?[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

So the consensus is bad Fallout game but good general game.

[–]templar_Paladin Trance 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yes, many people would also agree that New Vegas is a brilliant Fallout game, but a poor video game.

[–]ScienceBrah401Who doesn't want badass stuff?[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

From what I heard New Vegas really does well in terms of the best Fallout story, while Fallout 3 merges 1st person Fallout with some RPG elements.

[–]templar_Paladin Trance 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's worth noting that they are in identical engines, and have exactly the same art style.

Personally, I think NV is the better Fallout game as 3, like all Bethesda games it loves to railroad you when it comes to the main quest. You are told who are the good guys and the bad guys, and then instructed as to which direction to shoot. NV on the other hand gives you the choice of 3 grey factions, lets you find out what they do and then makes you choose or go it alone.

NV also has some great RPG elements like Hardcore mode (Survival but much better), weapon and armour durability, different ammunition types and generally offering more player choice.

[–]ScienceBrah401Who doesn't want badass stuff?[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Interesting indeed!

[–]MattTheFreeman -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

The game is all gameplay and no story. Both Fallout 3 and 4 have this problem. the choices you make are so hollow compared to the choices in previous. Good and evil mattered way more then just "kill" or dont kill. or "give water" and dont. it was complex and had a sense of environment that these games fail to give, yea its fun to kill raiders with your sniper rifle. but who are the raiders? why are they raiding? why cant i talk to them? in the previous ones, every thing that tried to kill you (minus the vegetation and wild life) you could at least try to talk down, to some degree. (I.E. the Fiends in Vegas and the Khans in fallout 1) and you knew the stories of why they raided. they all were apart of different gangs with different agendas that you could help or not. The game really feels like they pushed out gameplay and forgot to put in true story. Fallout is about the story and your character defining how you play. You are the catalyst in the story.

[–]ScienceBrah401Who doesn't want badass stuff?[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

So the new Bethesda games are like a revamped Fallout. They're not following the old formula; it's just a post-apocalyptic shooter.