•
•

[meta] Downvote Button and making this subreddit better. (self.reddevils)

mchughoDe Gea が 投稿

I have noticed a lot of complaints in this subreddit about people who feel their opinions aren't heard because they go against the majority opinion. The subreddit rules states that the downvote button should be used for posts that don't contribute to discussion NOT for posts you disagree with. Due to the inevitability of people abusing the voting system I propose we should switch to an upvote only system in the comments. It works for many other subreddits I frequent and will stop controversial opinions being downvoted to oblivion.

I say this because the majority opinion on our players seems to be formed almost entirely on recent form (ie the past few games). For example when Rooney doesn't score he gets slated and anybody who says they like him gets downvoted. Conversely when he does score anyobdy who posts valid criticism of Rooney gets downvoted. I've seen this for lots of players, Mata, Herrera, Rojo, Fellaini and Schweini.

If we really want a subreddit that fosters active discussion we either need to collectively not abuse the downvote button (not very likely) or switch to an upvote system. I am pretty tired of the majority opinion changing every few days and I'm sure a lot of regular posters and lurkers will agree with me.

Just an idea, what do others think?

全 42 件のコメント
並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]walterwhitec10h15n 20ポイント21ポイント  (2子コメント)

There is a sudden rise of troll accounts on this sub, the number of downvotes help identify these trolls.

[–]mchughoDe Gea[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If it's true that they can just downvote anyway if they really wanted to, wouldn't having an upvote system make it even easier to identify the trolls as they are the ones making the effort to circumvent the upvote only system?

[–]manunited_forever 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

We have 35 comments and counting with 0 up votes. Feels like there is a targeted down vote scheme

[–]parton9020 times, 20 times, Man United 8ポイント9ポイント  (5子コメント)

This has been proposed before and I'm sure it was decided that we wouldn't do it

EDIT - sorry, meant to add before I clicked Save; it's a Reddit wide issue, not just this sub. Personally when I get downvoted I really don't care though, people get way too caught up on them, all it means is that you have a different opinion to anyone else so what's really the issue? Removing the option to downvote wouldn't foster anymore discussion imo.

[–]hoochiscrazy_Giggs 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't care about down votes either from a personal point of view, but it kills decent discussion on this sub. Just because it's a reddit-wide issue doesn't mean we cant try and resolve it

[–]mchughoDe Gea[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wasn't aware of that, I'll have a look at the thread now.

[–]mchughoDe Gea[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Removing the option to downvote wouldn't foster anymore discussion imo.

I completely disagree, some people for some reason are bothered whether they are downvoted or not. Also subconsciously humans have a tendency to go with the hivemind if it is shown that people who disagree are ostracised, regardless of their actual opinions. Psychologically, removing the downvote button would have a huge effect on the tone of discussion even if it is subconsciously.

[–]parton9020 times, 20 times, Man United 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Personally if something if getting tanned with downvotes I'm more likely to read it. Removing the button wouldn't stop the consensus from being upvoted still. I appreciate that it is annoying and do agree with you to a certain extent but I feel it's pissing in the wind a bit trying to fix it. People need to be more tolerant and be prepared to take others opinions on board more but there's no way of policing that.

[–]ducedo 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

I downvote shitposts such as the 200 posts on Pogba, for months, being signed in the next 48 hours. Until people step up their game and think twice before posting, then there's a great need for a downvote button due to the fact that Reddit hides downvoted posts. No other way to get rid of them. Probably an unpopular opinion but that's my view on quality over quantity.

[–]mufcirclejerk 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

probably an unpopular opinion but that's my view on quality over quantity.

It is an unpopular opinion and it could get downvoted just because it's unpopular. Your opinion adds to the discussion, and people on here downvote those they disagree with. That's the whole point.

[–]mchughoDe Gea[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is it possible to remove downvotes in the comments and not in the posts? I do agree the shitposts need filtering, I'm more concerned about the quality of comment discussion.

[–]Creamy_Goodne55 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

The mods wont agree to it, its been brought up about 50 times and it just gets flat out rejected by them.

Its the nature of the sub I guess, were essentially a fan site so we have the most hardcore fans (ie the people that are willing to give up their day to talk United) the problem with that is your going to get shouted down pretty quickly if you say anything negative about the club or a player.

Prime example is selling players. Nobody is willing to talk about players leaving, a comment about a player staying as a squad player sat on the bench doing nothing will be upvoted but suggesting that the player may not like that and its more likely he will be sold will be downvoted to oblivion. The original RVP sold story was just full of "its bollocks" and it happened an the same thing is happening now with the likes of Bastian and Adnan.

[–]mufcirclejerk 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

The mods wont agree to it, its been brought up about 50 times and it just gets flat out rejected by them.

They never have a particularly good reason other than "you can still downvote by pressing the keyboard shortcut".

I've said for years that downvotes should not be visible in this sub. Legitimate opinions get downvoted en masse and it's pathetic.

[–]mchughoDe Gea[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well the mods need to take a hard look at the subreddit because actually discussion is damn near impossible sometimes. Surely that is what differentiates subreddits from your average internet fan forums.

[–]flo-joHerrera 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

An upvote only system does not really work because all you have to do is disable the subreddit style and you can downvote.

[–]mchughoDe Gea[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Would many people really go to that effort to downvote? It seems to work on other subreddits, /r/askhistorians is a great example as well as /r/listentothis.

[–]flo-joHerrera 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

It is a two step process, unchecked the box then reload. It does not take a lot of effort. I do this to downvote trolls on subs that don't allow downvotes.

[–]mchughoDe Gea[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do many people who aren't hardcore redditors know about this though?

[–]geg0714Ronaldo 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

You can also downvote on mobile apps, without any extra effort.

[–]mchughoDe Gea[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It would still cut the numbers of pointless downvotes, a lot of people reddit exclusively through desktops/laptops.

[–]anterax 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

How would switching to an upvote-only system be any better? You'd still get popular opinion upvoted no matter how factually incorrect or unfounded it is.

I don't know how much the mods can do about the issue, it's up to people to be more sensible really...

[–]mchughoDe Gea[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Because often quality posts that shouldn't be downvoted get buried. An upvote system in theory should have similar weightings. Also people's motives for upvoting are often purer than their motives for downvoting.

[–]anterax 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh I agree with the posts being buried. Look at my post history :P I just think that that will cause people to upvote other posts in an effort to push the post that they don't agree with lower. I'm no expert on human psychology but with the number of mindless comments being upvoted and sensible ones being downvoted in this sub, I really don't think it'll make too much of a difference.

[–]DJ_B0BThe Special One 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Threads in this subreddit don't get enough comments to get buried, imo, when there are only 10-50 comments I'll usually read them all.

I don't know about other people but I'm more likely to read a -10 post to see why it is controversial (even though most of the time it's a troll or shitpost, so it's good it'v downvoted) that one that is on 2 points and I might skim past it.

[–]mufcirclejerk 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

You'd still get popular opinion upvoted no matter how factually incorrect or unfounded it is.

People piling on to popular opinion is less of an issue / less demoralising / less alienating to new members than people downvoting opinions they disagree with.

[–]anterax 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I suppose so. All the more reason not to take votes too seriously, but you're right.

[–]mufcirclejerk 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't take them seriously but when you make a constructive point in a discussion

e.g.

https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/4ecxuu/rory_smith_and_paul_hirst_tuesdays_times_sport/d1z0v1i

https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/49t8yg/should_daley_blind_be_moved_back_to_his_natural/d0umiwo

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/42fo1n/loan_move_agreed_for_victor_valdes_to_standard/cz9xve8

And you get massively downvoted, it removes incentives for future contributions. It basically means that the range of opinions on the sub gradually narrows towards being indistinguishable.

[–]DJ_B0BThe Special One 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

I hate subs that do this, it is so easy to circumvent that then you just end up with the bad people using it. It's fine at the moment, people will still read your opinion, you don't need to worry about losing imaginary internet points.

[–]mchughoDe Gea[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't care about imaginary points, I just want people to not be afraid to post their opinions.

[–]DJ_B0BThe Special One 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Then the issue isn't the downvote button being there, the issue is that people care about the points. If I say something that gets downvoted it might mean I'm actually right.

Just need an intervention for people to stop caring about karma.

[–]mchughoDe Gea[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

They don't care about the points, they care about their pride. People don't like to feel like they are wrong about things or that they are not in the majority. Its the need for acceptance and affirmation that drives posting behaviour, not comment karma.

[–]hoochiscrazy_Giggs 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

100% agree. This sub is awful when it comes to everybody just following the common consensus. Individual opinions usually get down voted

[–]StathamIsYourSaviorRafael 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Meh feel like downvoted comments gather more atention than your average post. Plus sometimes the downvotes are hilarious.

[–]mchughoDe Gea[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I doubt that very much.

[–]lazysloth1 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

There's a lot of controversial and legitimate opinions being downvoted because they go against what everybody else is saying, I agree - but this transfer summer always seems to bring out a lot of irrelevant, trolling shitposts. I'd prefer the downvote button to be there so we can downvote the shitposts, rather than having to bypass 10 comments before coming across a legit comment.

[–]mchughoDe Gea[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

That's what mods are for though?

[–]lazysloth1 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, but they're not on all the time. I'm not really understanding why people are afraid to post in fear that they'd get downvoted, to be honest. The most you'd lose is imaginary internet points.

[–]mchughoDe Gea[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Its not fear of losing imaginary internet points, its a human fear of not being accepted by the tribe.

[–]kozirekGiggs 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agree amount of downvotes in this sub is atrocious.

[–]manunited_forever 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

We have 30 comments and 0 up votes. Feels like there is a targeted down vote scheme

[–]manunited_forever 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agree with down vote being misused in this sub. Please down vote this comment as well ;)

[–]mufctez 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I disagree.

I like the downvote button. I don't use it on opinions I don't agree, but I do use it on REPETITIVE opinions I don't agree with.

The amount of shit that is recycled on this sub is huge. The same type of posts popping up again and again.

"Am I the only one who thinks X is blah blah blah"

"What happens to Rooney if blah blah blah"

"Who will play with Pogba?"

"My tactics for this season" (same as everyone else's tactics usually)

And then there's the trolls - we have to downvote the trolls.