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[–]turnbotWell Julie, I just wrote "PALEHO" 51ポイント52ポイント  (10子コメント)

I understand your frustrations (I do feel them too, from time to time) and I completely understand your thoughts how how this subreddit has taken a change for the worse... But GURL, posts like these are just adding fuel to the fire. This whole melodramatic "I'm leaving this subreddit -gasp- and you're all to blame!!!" thing is really not going to help either the subreddit, or anybody's perception of you because at the end of the day, nobody cares. Please don't interpret this as me being a shady bitch, because I do understand your frustrations and I share them with you, but you should really be taking your own advice with the 5G's.... Why don't we just all relax, downvote what we don't like, and not go into threads that are obviously baited for racial arguments, or condescending teens, or whatever else you don't like.

The last thing I would want to do is come after a fellow /r/rupaulsdragrace girl, because I still believe in the sorority mentality despite the influx of new users that have shaken the boat. The subreddit is changing and will change, and you can either ride it out or hop off, but can we all please just cut the crap and enjoy the damn show?? <3

[–]jojoko 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

i agree with this. but i also secretly like the drama this has created.

[–]turnbotWell Julie, I just wrote "PALEHO" 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Miss jojoko, you are the T! Xx

[–]blogginglifeNaomi Smalls 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

For real! We were all new once. I think my first post here had nothing to do with anything and had probably been asked 25x over. Everyone gets the grip eventually. It's like highschool juniors bullying the freshmen.

[–]fearofphotographyI. DO NOT. GO DOWN. 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree - and it's off-season anyway! I haven't been around for ages or anything, but I barely even post here at the moment, I mostly just lurk. But as soon as the show is back we'll be busy talking about it. I'm sure many of the users we know & love will be back.

[–]girlfrom1977hungry dick pig 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

AMEN! A tad melodramatic! Again, sorry hun, no shade.

[–]martymar18Jesus is a Bisquick 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

But dat catharsis though

[–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (3子コメント)

turnbot, I totally agree...

I honestly did spend some time thinking about whether or not to post and I just decided to, so I can't change that. I'm not upset that I did at the end of the day, because a lot of the comments have confirmed my desire to hop off.

[–]turnbotWell Julie, I just wrote "PALEHO" 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think it opened up some good channels of communication if anything! Regret is a fool's game. If anything, you should check the subreddit out once the season actually starts, I'm sure it'll get better :)

[–]flyingattreelvdown with communism! 37ポイント38ポイント  (1子コメント)

My god not having new episodes is quickly giving everyone cabin fever. We should take a few deep breaths and put down the gun.

[–]turnbotWell Julie, I just wrote "PALEHO" 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

Someone's gonna wind up in Tuckahoe Prison for Ladies before this is all over.

[–]getset-reddit-goButch Queen. First. Time. In. Drags. At. A. Ball. 16ポイント17ポイント  (3子コメント)

[–]JCizlePurse Purse Imfurst 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

ooo this gif is going in my major rotation folder. lav it.

[–]getset-reddit-goButch Queen. First. Time. In. Drags. At. A. Ball. 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Please help yourself.

[–]JCizlePurse Purse Imfurst[M] 23ポイント24ポイント  (16子コメント)

My first inclination was to delete such a heated post...

They usually accomplish nothing. But for the sake of getting some positive feedback on a topic that seems to be equally loved and loathed, what do members feel the mod team can do to create an enjoyable environment for either side?

Let me point out, this sub isn't the set of Heathers, Mean Girls, Jawbreakers, etc. We aren't out to read other members beyond filth for their opinions. It's not worth it. You're all fans of the same amazing show. At the same time... this isn't romper room, Kumbaya, "every one will always agree with you or else" time. As the OP pointed out, drag is not made to be PC at all times, but understand we have many new fans taking a peak at our community and they may not get the ins and outs of slang. We don't all know each other in person and what may fly for the New York Queens may not be kosher for the Seattle Queens and vice versa. We can have conversation without somebody catching a case, can't we?

So ladyboys and gurls, what can we do to help? Feel free to msg the mods or PM me directly if that makes you feel better.

[–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I can attest that it was a comment about a user specifically that sent me over the edge.

    [–]DrMcIntireShadespeare 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I think disabling downvotes might encourage people to respond to content they disagree with instead of just taking an action they perceive as punitive.

    If you disagree with me - tell me WHY. Drive by downvoting is rather meaningless.

    [–]edible_complexoh honey.. 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

    i'm not mad! i feel like this post has been a long time coming. it's easy to understand how people can get caught up in "silly internet drama," but it's not silly to me.

    i understand as a mod that you don't want anything divisive, and this certainly...is, but it was a clear undercurrent in the subreddit all along that finally came to a head. it's why i haven't enjoyed coming here lately, which is why i'm much sparser now than i was in season 4.

    i don't think i have any suggestions, tbh.

    [–]DrMcIntireShadespeare 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I've missed you!!

    [–]HeyHeatherKim Chi 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    You shady bitch ;)

    [–]edible_complexoh honey.. 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    thx

    [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (3子コメント)

    I feel like I have some obligation to reply because this is my post.

    First, I don't think I was very "heated" and that surely wasn't my point. If anything, I feel like I have been a pretty reasonable and uplifting member of this community and wanted to share my opinions on leaving. For this I have no regrets. Clearly the swell of comments also attests that these are issues for community members on both sides of the aisle.

    I'm a Leo, so I am a defender of people. For the most part, the things that I am frustrated with have nothing to do with me. I don't use the terms "faggot" or "tranny" on these boards (again, please go through my comments and find a time where I have been racist or transphobic) but I will not sit idly by and watch other members be called these things and not come to their defense. Which leads me to my next point...

    I completely understand the uselessness that can come with posts like this. I felt like sharing so I did. However; to even suggest that my post would be deleted when comments calling users bigots and racists (which, in my opinion, skirts very close to the edge of appropriate conduct on reddit, or at minimum, here on this sub) stay for all to see, it further solidifies my frustration.

    I love this subreddit... and the mods... but I just don't care to take part in the back and forth anymore. Because I feel like I have made stranger-internet friends here, I felt like there was validity to explain my stance. Again, I think the comments, and your specific desire to somehow appease and ease this, are testament that there are some issues here. Some may see them as non-issues, others do.

    [–]mellamysterio 9ポイント10ポイント  (9子コメント)

    I don't think I've ever caused any bother on the subreddit because I'm one of those "teenagers" who are "mainstream". I've never told anyone they need to be respectful to me or anything like that. I became a fan when I was thirteen after I watched Paris is Burning. And although I'm not exactly "part of drag culture" in the sense that I'm not a drag queen or part of the LGBT, this show gives me life! I love the show and this subreddit which I've been on for a year or two now. Well, I hope that everything works out for you while you're off the subreddit and if you don't come back for the new season, please have a nice time watching it.

    [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I'm not saying that all of these people are teenagers or mainstream. However; I've read through many people's comments who have started or supported those posts and had this eureka moment when I realized that a lot of them are still in high school. If it doesn't apply, please don't take offense.

    And I can't wait for this thing to start! Enjoy your viewing too.

    [–]Ice_JokerUnpopular Opinion; For the night is dark and full of Hennys. 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Those highschoolers will still see these queens as role models and learn to grow and accept themselves.

    Try not to come off as dismissive. You were a teen, too - In a likely more risky time be a gay, or bisexual, or transgendered, or simply tolerant teenager.

    [–]princessologyThey call me Nancy Drew! 14ポイント15ポイント  (3子コメント)

    What in the hell is going on here? What has happened to my lovely Drag Race subreddit?

    I have a lot of opinions on the subject of race. I've written about it. I've spoken at conventions about it. I'm very aware of it and I'm always trying to be better. But when I come here, the only race I want to discuss is DRAG Race. Why are we even talking about this so often? I understand when it comes up after Sharon Needles lets her ass hang out (again) but this? Seriously?

    Guys. Can we just talk about Drag Race? I am fully aware there are serious issues in the world. But dammit, this was an escape for me.

    [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

    This is a lot of my point. I wrote to someone in a comment earlier, "Drag race seems to be my only escape from my real life and this subreddit actually allowed me to find a community of people to escape with. Once escaping turned stressful, there doesn't seem to be much of a point."

    [–]princessologyThey call me Nancy Drew! 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Exactly. I'm going to be honest: I don't agree with a lot of the shenanigans going on in the Trinity post. At least not what I read of it, anyway. I had to stop reading because I didn't want to have to start seeing people on this sub differently. The Tumblr SJW movement is a textbook example of good intentions gone horribly off the rails, and there's almost this backlash forming in response to it that isn't necessarily composed of inherently bad people - a lot of times it's just people (of ALL genders and ALL races) who are exhausted trying to do well but still feeling policed all the time. I actually TRY to be self-aware and considerate of people around me, I actively try to do that, every single day, and even I am starting to feel like there's nothing you can say or do anymore without being branded as __phobic or __sist. I hate to see that happening here. It's one thing when we're discussing how awful it is that Sharon Needles has her ass hanging out (yet again), but my GOD, beyond that? Why are we constantly arguing about race here? That's not what I come here for.

    [–]Wistakill yoself 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This post is perfect. I hope everyone who came to this thread will read it and take it to heart.

    [–]waynelucHe want some chicken leg 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Agreed on some points, mostly the one on people being too sensitive about a lot of things. But I wouldn't say it's just here at all. If you don't like it, I would absolutely not recommend getting a Tumblr account. What, with all of the social justice workers and the dictators of what is racist and what is not... I feel like some people stretch some things out just so they can feel like they are defending something and being a good person. (eg. legitimately seeing "straight pride" posts on Tumblr.) But I don't think it's just this SR, we are very small after all, it's just a con of the internet in general.

    [–]HeyHeatherKim Chi 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    preach

    [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Agreed. I don't have a tumblr. I know the internet is vicious and, trust me, I can handle it. Just wasn't expecting this sub to take such a turn so quickly in a direction that, in my humble opinion, steers away from the culture of drag.

    [–]waynelucHe want some chicken leg 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yeah. I will surely not be leaving any time soon, but it seems to be much better on the off season, unfortunately so. Probably because the ones here during off season are the diehards, aka not the ones to be picking fights with each other over whether Raja's outfit from 2011 actually was inappropriate or not. (By the way, I lived for her outfits. Just being sarcastic)

    [–]gardenofcucumbersMannimarco for Marco Marco 15ポイント16ポイント  (14子コメント)

    I don't think it has to be as bad as your making it out to be - I went back and re-read that Trinity post. Of course, it's a hot mess, but you and Heather just shouldn't have engaged them. I've known you on this subreddit uprock for a while and enjoy your posts. You're better than that.

    [–]LoserInLawnchair"Sex is for free!" -Cynthia Lee Fontaine 15ポイント16ポイント  (2子コメント)

    THIS. No, I don't think people are being subtly racist towards Trinity or anyone, and the person who posted about it said a lot of other stupid stuff as well (not understand the editing process much re: milk's clown comment?,) but then when you guys engaged him you started arguing about whether or not calling people of color inarticulate is a historically verified form of veiled racism, which it TOTALLY IS. And then someone had to go and use the term 'reverse racism' (it's just called racism) which made a lot of people justifiably upset.

    Now you're all in an angry, shady debate about privilege and pretty much everyone involved has said at least one thing that makes them look really, really bad.

    Had fewer people commented on the Trinity post and had we just let the downvotes speak for themselves, the post would have been off the front page within an hour or two anyway.

    *edit: though, for the record, HeyHeather did get personally attacked pretty early on in the fray, and had that happened to me I would probably not be able to fight the urge to fully engage either. This is all so...nasty.

    [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Thanks girl.

    [–]HeyHeatherKim Chi -4ポイント-3ポイント  (9子コメント)

    you are right but i have a hard time letting people get away with spewing accusations of racism around willy nilly. people who do that need to face the consequences of their reckless word usage.

    [–][deleted] 8ポイント9ポイント  (8子コメント)

    Really? Who exactly does it hurt when someone here calls you racist? You really take it to heart that much? Your personality, your worth, your being, your attitude, your face, your hands, your voice are all controlled by someone on the RuPaul subreddit calling you racist? You can't rise above it? You, knowing better than them in the topic, feel threatened by their insinuation? Really?

    Call me a racist. Please call me a racist. Anyone! I'll show you how little it hurts me. I will lead by example and not give trolls their nutrition.

    [–]praisebetomoomon 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Yeah, but you're a cold-assed bitch. And I don't mean that as an insult.

    [–][deleted] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Oh, I'll be that! ;)

    Sometimes, you just gotta learn how to don your hata-blockaz and not sweat this small shit. What're they gonna do to you? Fuck all!

    [–]praisebetomoomon 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    It's true, but it's everyone's own lesson to learn unfortunately.

    [–][deleted] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    You hit the nail on the head with that one. The mother in me wants to see all my instanet palz play nicely together, but I suppose the chips shall fall as they may.

    [–]webby686Chi Chi DeVayne 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I guess I am "new" and I find everyone at this sub very positive and friendly, and I really enjoy that! EVERYBODY SAY LOVE!!!

    [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    LOVE!

    [–]ForestfortheDraoisCorgi Carrera 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

    As I see it, whenever you get two or more people together, you're bound to see some characteristics you're not going to like. As the population grows, so do the kinds of characteristics and the intensity of them. I've just learned to either ignore them or else I will get irritated a lot.

    That being said, I don't like to see people leave, especially those I've seen a lot of great comments from, but if it betters your sanity than that's what you should do. Come back if/when you don't hate it and I can promise we won't treat you like India. ;)

    [–][deleted] 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Why is everyone propagating propagating propagating?

    [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    200+ comments seems more like a conversation that was needing to happen. Not propagation.

    [–]SEUNGRlNaomi Smalls 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

    reverse racism? Lol.......

    [–]lalala_linoleumThere's a pumpkin in my tub! 14ポイント15ポイント  (10子コメント)

    "Normal" people are beginning to love the show, the characters and the art form... which is great... but when those people (yes, "those people") begin to interact with others who are affluent in the world of drag, they feel the need to monitor or change the disposition of NORMAL drag conversation, behavior and culture.

    "Normal?" What makes a person normal?

    [–]TheOneDocaka Helela. Oh please don't you know who I think I am? 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Statistics

    [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (8子コメント)

    Hear what I'm saying, not what I'm not saying. I'm not going to get into some debate about this; when I referenced "normal", I was speaking on mainstream Sally and Joe who aren't personally involved in gay or drag culture.

    [–]lalala_linoleumThere's a pumpkin in my tub! 14ポイント15ポイント  (7子コメント)

    I think you're generalizing here. I'm not up for a debate either, but you should remember that people are individuals.

    There is no such thing as "normal", and to say there is, is to imply that something is abnormal about gay culture. Gender is not black and white, and neither are people. But it shouldn't matter, because drag is that last place for discrimination based on gender or sexuality.

    Why should anyone who is a fan not have a place here? Nobody is Drag Race's guardian. You don't get to choose who is a fan of it. It's hard to believe that by gaining a heterosexual audience, those normal straighties have ruined your fun. It's very reminiscent of guys complaining about "fake geek girls" ruining comics for them.

    tl;dr It's understandable that things can turn sour when they go mainstream, but for the love of god, do not blame it on straight people. Because that's some discriminatory shit.

    [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (6子コメント)

    I intentionally used quotations around "normal" so that I wouldn't have to defend my use of it, because it is quite innocent. Yes, everyone is an individual, everyone is unique. My use of "normal" is basically just saying that drag is more of an underground culture in our society so when Sally and Joe start watching, they would not be a part of the "normal" audience... thus it's broken into the mainstream. I would write this the same way if this subreddit were about underground hip-hop, gay Christians, Republican gays or any other weird counter-culture that I associate with.

    I don't feel like I'm blaming anything on straight people that are here. In all honesty, when I'm talking about this going mainstream, it doesn't have much to do with whether someone is straight or not. Many of the people that I'm referencing in my head when I'm talking about "changing drag culture" are gay in my mind. The heterosexual thing really isn't a thing for me on here.

    [–]lalala_linoleumThere's a pumpkin in my tub! 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

    I guess I just haven't witnessed the behavior you're describing. How have people tried to change drag culture? Not saying it isn't happening, I just haven't experienced that myself.

    Different people enjoy the show in different ways. Sally and Joe might watch it to learn about gay culture. Maybe they want to understand, but don't know where to start because their time was so different. The fact that it is being enjoyed by a mainstream audience is really wonderful. It means the world is changing. It means that people don't think "gay" should be segregated. In the end, the only thing constant is change.

    [–][deleted] 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It's feeling very tumblr up in here.

    [–]jd1zburnt up a mink coat 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I guess this will be a place for subreddit discussion, and it worries me that it will start with the tone of /u/uprock's post.

    I agree with your observation that between season 5 and now there has been an influx of new community members, and the dynamic has changed. There are some things they'll need to learn, but as a drag family it would behoove us to teach new members the nuances of the community. If you don't feel you have the time to be a drag mother then unfortunately I think you're right to go, and the new dynamic of this subreddit isn't for you. No shade, some people just don't have the energy, and I respect that. Sorry to see anyone leave a place they used to call home, but I hope you enjoy the new season and find a new sisterhood to watch with who kikis on your wavelength :)

    [–][削除されました]  (7子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–]SEUNGRlNaomi Smalls 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

      La biblioteca es abierta!

      [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

      I don't feel like I'm contradicting myself. I'm saying that it is just drag and I shouldn't be bothered... so I'm taking a break to un-bother myself.

      [–]DrMcIntireShadespeare 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

      [–]kennnnnnn 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I Gagged. Lived. Cried. Died. Re-lived.

      [–]martymar18Jesus is a Bisquick 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Because sometimes even queens need to put the big girl panties on and not read a bitch for lulz but tell the T how it truely is. All T all shade.

      [–]SEUNGRlNaomi Smalls 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

      I got attacked because I said Jiggly Caliente was sensitive because she's on hormone replacement therapy. I was called misogynistic and transphobic. what the fuck?

      [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I remember this. And this is part of my point.

      [–]blogginglifeNaomi Smalls 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

      lol you guys can you imagine the laughing fit half to queens on the show would have if they read this post? Let's just enjoy, it's drag!

      [–]HeySigourney 14ポイント15ポイント  (7子コメント)

      I miss when this sub wasn't so divided.

      But look at me being all hipsterish and harking back to old times "before it was cool"

      No but seriously, this sub has given me a lot and I've grown tremendously with the guiding advice and friendship of some wonderful people here. The Lip Sync competition was beautiful and really changed this place for many of us. To see this subreddit slowly slip back into Reddit's ways (hyper generalizations, fangirling, shipping, bashing, PC police, etc) is heart breaking

      I WONDER WHY HE HAVEN'T SEEN MUCH OF OUR QUEEN, /u/heychrisk LATELY - I will tell you why

      SHE DON'T PUT UP WITH THIS PETTY SHIT

      Call me a hipster, a whiner, fuck - call me a racist if you want, seems like the new, cool thing to do. But this sub did used to be better, and there are amazing, extremely active members that are ditching this place.

      I'm not gonna jump on that train. But you guys really do need to chill the fuck out with your egoist opinions, because you're ruining the best community on Reddit.

      yeah yeah, "QQ moar", "bye", comment whatever generic crap you have to say. Believe me, we've heard it.

      [–][deleted] 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

      I don't understand why you are propagating this shit. Let it alone, girl, it's soooo not worth these feelinz.

      [–]flyingattreelvdown with communism! 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      The T has been spoken.

      [–]DrMcIntireShadespeare 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

      DrMcIntire, with all "i"'s, boo.

      [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

      i'm so sorry :(

      [–]DrMcIntireShadespeare 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Oh please. lol

      Turn that frown upside down and keep kickin' ass, bucko.

      [–]DrMcIntireShadespeare 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Not that it matters at this late point in the game, but as part of my doc studies, I did an intensive year of study into racism and systems of oppression.

      There tend two be two definitions of "racism" - the colloquial and the academic. And let's not get our panties twisted over "academic". It doesn't mean used by smarter people , it means "used by people who study a subject to convey an agreed upon meaning within the context of their field of study."

      "Racism," colloquially is what HeyHeather and most others use to describe bigotry or oppressive actions taken by one person toward those of another skin color. In that use, the concept of "reverse" racism does not exist since all are capable of bigoted thoughts and actions.

      "Racism," academically, is typically called "institutional racism" or "systemic racism" and means using the existing systems of oppression and privilege that exist in the world/America to get ahead because of one's color privilege - even when not done intentionally. Basically, it means participating in/perpetuating the systems that benefit the dominant group. Traditionally it has been white people who benefit from this in American society. In the academic definition, you must be part of the "dominant" race to be "racist" - just like one must be fully able (not disabled) to be fully "able-ist". Therefore, and perhaps most controversially, many who study racism believe only one group - the one at the top - can be (academically) "racist" and that ALL members of that group participate in and perpetuate the system of oppression that keeps them at the top and are therefore "racist". That was the hardest part for me to wrap my head around as a white-appearing half-hispanic gay dude everyone in my studies assumed was just another white guy.

      I have come to realize after hours and hours talking with/reading about/interviewing people of all ethnic backgrounds and appearance that in the USA, as a white-appearing male, I DO have and benefit from certain privileges that make my life a bit easier, and I would never have known had I not sought to understand.

      Now, I also grew up poor - and I looked poor. I experienced classism from the point of the oppressed. I grew up hyper religious to the point it influenced the way I dressed and spoke. I experienced religious oppression as the oppressed. I grew up gay in the South of the USA. Hi - oppressed. But, when it comes to the color of my skin, I have never - never once - felt oppressed, and I can certainly think of times when it's gotten me ahead. From simple things like getting a cab while a middle eastern appearing man wearing a turban was left behind to complex things like having a white sounding name on my resume instead of an "afrocentric" name - which has been proven to reduce the likelihood of getting a job interview.

      For what it's worth, there IS a huge history of bigoted use of the word "articulate" toward black people in America, which plays on "talking white" as the "correct" way to speak - thus exercising the system of white privilege to enforce "correct English" as the only valid language.

      Not that he requires my defense, but I believe /u/HeyHeather was not aware of this and truly meant no harm. He's a great guy, and every time we've disagreed, he's been open to talking it out - learning and teaching equally.

      I know some will want to comment in support or disagreement. That's fine. I won't be responding since none of this reveals my opinion (except my experience of HeyHeather and perhaps a bit of my own experiences with oppression). I simply wanted to provide some context from my studies in case it helps inform the conversation a bit.

      [–]MunkieianKeep it together, Missy! 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Victims against victims. What the fuck caused people to be so ugly to each other?

      [–]2DeluxeDry like your vagina. 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Insecurity.

      [–][deleted] 21ポイント22ポイント  (63子コメント)

      Reverse racism isn't real, hunty. And if you think it is then sashay away.

      [–][deleted] 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

      I have an issue with the term "reverse" racism, especially when applied to racism towards white people, as if the only type of racism is that against minorities. Racism goes both ways (and every other way), and should just be called racism.

      [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I probably could have chosen my words better... I thought that phrase sort of explained the situation I was referencing and thought people would understand what I meant in that context. Oh, to underestimate the internets.

      [–][deleted] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      No worries; it's just a bone of contention I have with that particular term.

      [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I actually completely agree. Racism is racism and it can come from anywhere. I just felt like it made sense since what was going on was:

      White user critiques a black character. PoC user says white person is racist. White user finds PoC user racist for assuming they are racist.

      I guess it's the white people doing the reverse racism? See, it is confusing... and it made sense when I posted it.

      [–]HeyHeatherKim Chi 0ポイント1ポイント  (53子コメント)

      what do you mean by "reverse racism isn't real"?

      [–]dhicockThank you. Thank ewe. Thank queue. 10ポイント11ポイント  (24子コメント)

      Reverse racism doesn't exist. If you feel one race is inherently superior solely because of the color of their skin, you're racist.

      The colors involved don't matter

      [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Racism is racism, but I think, in terms of the conversation, we can understand what we are referencing here.

      [–]dhicockThank you. Thank ewe. Thank queue. 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Oh I know what you're referencing.

      This is the kind of person who thinks saying "I hate white people" is ok, but you're hiterally litler if you say "I hate black people"

      Racism is racism and racists gon be racist

      [–]praisebetomoomon 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Was hiterally intentional? Because I love it.

      [–]dhicockThank you. Thank ewe. Thank queue. 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Of course!

      [–][削除されました]  (9子コメント)

      [deleted]

        [–]blogginglifeNaomi Smalls 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

        so if I have no power, I can't be racist? Well, I disagree with that. Before Hitler was Hitler he was still a bigot.

        PS this is a subreddit about drag and can we please lighten up. I have no power and I say lighten up!

        [–]turnmetoashes 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

        It's not about you personally having no power, it's about your race in general.

        For instance -- and I know a lot of people here will disagree, but just by being white you have so many doors open to you that other minorities don't have. And I know someone will try to make the argument that 'these days' things are more equal - sure, it isn't the 1800s and we don't have slaves, but prejudice is very deeply rooted in society.

        It's like saying that women are sexist towards men. Men have had and still have the dominant position in society, so 'reverse sexist' doesn't exist either.

        [–]Wistakill yoself 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

        I say lighten up!

        lighten up!

        lighten

        Wait a minute!

        [–]gfycat-bot 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        optimized gfy(html5 video) version of the gif

        • Original Gif Size 252K
        • Compressed Gfy Size 41K
        • Find out more about gfycat/about

        [–]blogginglifeNaomi Smalls 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        hehehehhee

        [–]HeyHeatherKim Chi 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Edit: not worth it. I am out.

        [–][deleted] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        :( From your other posts it seems like you were pretty open to hearing the other side. ZuG made a very valid point, albeit being a little snappy, but i would hate to see you dismiss his/her argument just because (s)he didn't sugar coat it.

        [–]hbehr150 5ポイント6ポイント  (14子コメント)

        The fact that white people like y'all mistake the removal of privilege for discrimination.

        [–]HeyHeatherKim Chi 3ポイント4ポイント  (13子コメント)

        This is racism at its most refined. You are literally saying that it is ok to purposefully disenfranchise people based on having a lighter skin color. You claim that I have received some kind of privilege, and therefore you feel that I should have it "removed"...

        What is entailed in this "removal" of my "privilege"? Should I pay more taxes? Should I go to jail? Lose my job? Be forced to suck black cock?(something i have happily done in the past)

        What is it that you want from me? What have I personally done to deserve to be disenfranchised?

        [–][削除されました]  (12子コメント)

        [deleted]

          [–]blogginglifeNaomi Smalls 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

          good lord you guys! I don't totally agree with /u/uprock but this is what he's talking about--this is a subreddit about a TV show we all like. If you wanna talk racism and social issues hit up another sub.

          [–]HeySigourney 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

          I'm guilty of engaging in it myself, but it does strike me as odd that this sub has a fascination with race relations

          [–]blogginglifeNaomi Smalls 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          ya, for real! This is a show about drag queens playing...no one asked to debate whether or not reverse-racism is a thing.

          [–]princessologyThey call me Nancy Drew! 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Same. I deal with that literally everywhere else on the internet. This is the one place I come to escape that mess and to see it here too is just...

          [–]HeySigourney 4ポイント5ポイント  (6子コメント)

          t's really a failure to adequately "check your privilege," and gauge that we as white people will most likely never have to worry that someone will assume we're uneducated because of the way were taught to speak growing up.

          really? I'm from Kentucky. Tell me again how people won't assume I'm unintelligent because I'm white.

          [–][deleted] -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

          Racism is prejudice and power. Everybody has no doubt been the victim of prejudice or bigotry, but that doesn't mean they experience racism. If you are from an area in Kentucky where it is generally understood that white people are unintelligent, and it feels like a constant burden, then sure, maybe you have experienced racism. But that's racism just the same, not reverse racism.

          To say reverse racism exists implies that there is a "primary" or "dominant" race that is the reference point for reverse racism. Just saying that reverse racism exists SCREAMS white privilege because it is 150% from a white ideological perspective. It tries to shift the conversation into something about YOU (not you in particular). If you were black, and someone were racist towards you, you wouldn't call it reverse racism because the tables were turned against you? You'd just call it racism.

          White people can, but don't usually, experience racism, but they can NEVER experience reverse racism. Reverse racism is not real. No T no shade because I totally get where you're coming from, but it really still is a failure to check privilege.

          If it matters for context, I'm a white, gay, HIV positive male. So while I can never understand what it is like to be the victim of racism, i feel like i and most members of this subreddit can at least understand similar experiences like homophobia or serophobia

          [–]HeySigourney 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

          I live on the Kentucky side of Cincinnati, which has a black population of around 40%, much higher than the national average. I definitely have experience racism, but I wasn't saying reverse racism exists. The definition of that phrase has been changed so much throughout this thread. I don't think anyone here really understands what it means (myself included). All I was saying is that I have definitely been the subject of "racism" because people from Ohio think I'm unintelligent because I have a slight accent and live 30 miles south.

          But what I really meant here is to point out that no one calls black people unintelligent because of the way that "they" (im not sure how to phrase this) talk, but because that way of speaking usually is at a considerable lack of proper grammar and structure. The same reasons people look at me strangely when I say "y'all", "I'm fittin to", "I reckon", etc.

          [–][deleted] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

          You know what smacks to me of the biggest white privilege there is in existence?

          And when white people object to critiques to those comments with claims of "reverse racism," it's really a failure to adequately "check your privilege," and gauge that we as white people will most likely never have to worry that someone will assume we're uneducated because of the way were taught to speak growing up. Black people, however, do worry about how white people see their speech.

          The fact that you in your whiteness can assume to know what it feels like for black people to be black. Nothing sounds more "white is right" than telling someone exactly how they should feel in any given situation, as if everyone needed to have a white person chime in with their 2 cents on the matter. Maybe some black people worry, maybe some don't. Who are we, as white people, to paint all black people with this huge brush in saying that they all act a certain way or that they all believe in something?

          I get what you're saying, but you're making your own point about not "checking your privilege" when you claim to speak for all people of color... and you are not a person of color.

          Edit: Downvotes for speaking the truth, I see.

          [–][deleted] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

          This article says it a lot better than I could. Yes, cop out, but whatever.

          [–]MunkieianKeep it together, Missy! -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Being apathetic towards white skinned people is apparently that.

          [–]edible_complexoh honey.. 15ポイント16ポイント  (46子コメント)

          Don't rush to come back if you think reverse racism is a pressing issue, never mind a thing at all, and transphobia doesn't really matter all that much.

          [–]MunkieianKeep it together, Missy! 1ポイント2ポイント  (39子コメント)

          You seem so insulted for some reason.

          [–]edible_complexoh honey.. 7ポイント8ポイント  (37子コメント)

          could it be that, as a gay man, i refuse to tolerate any sort of bigotry? because i'm not the type to sympathetically discuss a gay bashing and then say i'm "just not into black guys?" or "woooooork tranny" when trans individuals are being murdered at a much higher rate than any other group?

          or maybe i'm just sensitive.

          [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (6子コメント)

          I'm obviously not for any of those things either. However, I recognize those terms place in this culture. Obviously if I went to a subreddit for mechanics and they're using this lingo, there is an issue.

          Also, just to note, I have never used any of those words here... EVER... except in referencing them in conversation (like talking about the issue of using the words, etc.)

          I'm a gay man, too. It's all love.

          [–]edible_complexoh honey.. 12ポイント13ポイント  (5子コメント)

          if something in a culture is offensive, you change it. you're so willing to buy into this idea that all gay men are comfortably bigoted and beyond that "it's all love."

          Using slurs is not love. If those mechanics toss "faggot" around, it's not just love.

          [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

          That's exactly what I'm saying. If a mechanic were to call me a faggot, I would obviously view that negatively (I wouldn't be offended because, thankfully, I've worked really hard at not being offended by that since I am negatively called it no a daily basis). However; if James St. James calls me over to his table by saying, "Come sit over here you little faggot." I recognize where that is coming from.

          [–]turnmetoashes 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

          BUT exactly in the way you've made that example, you don't call a black person n- when you're white! Neither do white drag queens! It's really quite simple!

          "I'm gay, so I can call my friends "trannies" - no you can't, because guess what? YOU'RE NOT TRANS*.

          And your reasoning seems to say that being gay is a get out of jail free card with regards to offending all other minorities.

          You're also belittling people who get offended about being called these slurs because if you can "work really hard" to get over it, surely they can too.

          At the end of the day, it's not your term to reclaim unless you are a part of that minority.

          [–]jojoko 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

          her tone is seems very pointed, right now.

          [–]edible_complexoh honey.. -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

          like wow i wouldn't have read this whole thing if i weren't so damn bored, but you say that reddit outside of this community is rude and judgmental, and you miss the camaraderie and mutual respect that came from...disrespecting people and not paying any mind to their feelings?

          maybe you can learn something from these "hipster teenagers"

          [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

          maybe.

          [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (3子コメント)

          It's comments like this that won't make me rush back... not anything about any of those issues.

          Thanks for proving my point.

          [–]edible_complexoh honey.. -5ポイント-4ポイント  (2子コメント)

          bye sis now sashay away shut your no drag knowledge mouth etc et al backrolls

          [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

          point prover.

          [–]hbehr150 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

          Qurrl, you need the 5G's. If anything's endangered the subreddit, it's the fanatization of the show and the general "meme-dom" in the sub. Critical inquiry into the merits of this particular form of gay expression? I don't see how more is a bad thing. Don't get butthurt, just make an argument stating your opinion right back.

          [–]jojoko 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

          yes gawd. the fatatization and meme-dom is becoming problematic.

          actually no, i still hate the memes and animated gifs. its not actually problematic i just wanted to appropriate that word from tumblr.

          [–]HeySigourney 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

          how can you hate drag race gifs?!

          [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

          This is the real travesty in this post.

          [–]Ice_JokerUnpopular Opinion; For the night is dark and full of Hennys. 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Did it ever occur to us that we are on the same page, and do respect each other?

          But the competition has already started - and so have we. We are as competitive as RPDR - not unlike football fans, HOWEVER -

          We are also demonstrating boundaries in the subjects of racial insensitivity as well as in judging the queens. If you do not see when and why the race card is being carefully steered, please consider the winner of Season 4, Sharon Needles. She is laughing about the Nazi symbol. Yes, that is our winner.

          In all honesty, to leave the subreddit is foolish and dramatic. The spirit of the show is coming through and through and even after it's over, we will still argue. Sorry about it - I don't buy the being "offended" at this subreddit thing. Have a nice day.

          [–]culticno tea no shade no pink lemonade 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

          The worst part of these damn debates is even when it's over, it's not over. Later in another thread someone is passively aggressively bringing it up, "well so-and-so argued that white privilege doesn't exist so why is it a surprise they think it's ok to say 'tranny'" or "well so-and-so called me racist once because they're a tumblr sjw and they find everything offensive so don't bother" It's fucking annoying to watch this happen, and it's fucking annoying to see people being condescending about things that people clearly have strong/passionate feelings about, whether you feel they're on the wrong side of the debate or not. Stop stirring the pot, set a note saying "Do Not Engage" next to the person if you respectfully tried it once and felt like you were talking to a brick wall. Madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. You don't have to win a debate on the rpdr subreddit, just believe in your own convictions and be your best you.

          [–]meechooilkawashed up supermodel 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

          Thank you for putting al this out there so eloguently. I could not agree more.

          [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (1子コメント)

          No problem. It's just how I'm feeling. Glad to know I'm not alone.

          [–]meechooilkawashed up supermodel 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

          No no, not at all. "It is, in my opinion, laughable to think that someone that would, in our culture, support drag and spend their time on a site like this is either of those things [trans-phobe or racist]" just spoke really close to me. I'm baffled every time I see this shit.

          [–]kuck 2ポイント3ポイント  (7子コメント)

          bye

          [–]gardenofcucumbersMannimarco for Marco Marco 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

          bye.

          [–]kuck 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

          He has literally said "say tranny if it makes you happy!" in a conversation about the negative connotations of the word, and it's offensiveness to transgender individuals.

          [–]gardenofcucumbersMannimarco for Marco Marco 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I'm not excusing it, but you made a comment that baited him - of course Heather was going to defend himself as not being racist. Heather and uprock shouldn't have went into that fight, but you shouldn't have either. It's a mess all around.

          [–]HeySigourney -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

          That was me.

          And you completely took it out of context. completely.

          Hear what you want, girl.

          [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

          see ya.

          [–]Legacy_in_Progress 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

          I'm sorry ... your life is that hectic but you have time to write a venting essay? #girlbye

          [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I said I have "been" busy. Today I have time, so I did. Bye, girl!

          [–]navybean27 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

          Well this went over like a fart in church. I respect this post. I may get down voted to hell. But, its just the internet.

          [–]jojoko 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

          AMEN HALLEJOOO!

          especially,

          "This rigid, unapologetic talk is done without question; because no one... NO ONE... is concerned if someone is a trans-phobe or racist. It is, in my opinion, laughable to think that someone that would, in our culture, support drag and spend their time on a site like this is either of those things. It is not anyone's place to change the dynamic of how drag culture, and on a broader note, gay culture, works."

          [–]blogginglifeNaomi Smalls 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Well, I came here to disagree with you. But I have to say I do kinda agree. It's annoying to me that anyone would attempt to call someone here racist or homophobic...hello, we're all huge fans of a show about a certain gay, black drag queen. I know this because it's happened to me--I quoted Sharon saying "nigger" in a comment about how I don't like Sharon's racism and someone messaged me to not use that word. I am more than happy to elicit certain words from my speech (or, rather, quoting someone else's speech) that make people feel uncomfortable, but I don't think there's any reason people should uncomfortable.

          Words are words. It's about intent. One gay guy calling another gay guy a "faggot" lovingly is different than a highschool bully calling a boy a faggot to demean him. Me quoting Sharon Needle's racism in a post about how I DON'T LIKE IT is different than me throwing the word around. To me, it's about intent, not word choice.

          But I don't think that that's a problem on this subreddit. That's a problem in this society. So don't take your frustrations out here--I think this community, for the most part, is completely loving, open, and fun. If you don't want to be here, fine. Bye.

          PS--I'm a teenage girl. We don't all have the same opinions.

          PPS--Direct your anger towards the anti-racism Drag Race tumblr. THAT is ridiculous. This isn't.

          [–]krobin 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Just wanted to say I'll miss reading your posts around here. I started reading this sub at the beginning of season 5 and, even though I don't post much, I followed along throughout the off season. It's been said to see a couple of the once regular posters disappear.

          [–]kennnnnnn 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

          I don't get it. It's a sub on Reddit. There is going to be debauchery, foolishness, and fucked up shit happening somewhere in some thread. When things grow, especially on the internet, they change. It's kinda like getting mad about you looking different as you get older...

          What you do is adapt, move on, and do your own thing. I'm sorry to tell you but the sub is never and was never some "perfect happy place" where all RPDR junkies/knowitalls are holding hands in euphoria.

          Tldr; It's fucking Reddit... What did you expect?

          [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

          I am adapting, moving on and doing my own thing. Totally a free enough country to explain my reasoning.

          [–]kennnnnnn 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

          Totally. And wasn't saying you couldn't. I was saying you kind of shot yourself in the foot, and made your whole point irrelevant by using the same high school antics your whining about. The whole rant in general came off like a whiney school girl saying life isn't fair...

          No T.. All Shade.

          [–]uprockI do have an Associates degree in fashion.[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

          I've re-read it several times and actually feel like it pretty well says what I'm trying to say. If we disagree, that's cool.

          Another thing that annoys me about forums like this is that no one can actually raise a grievance or frustration without being branded "dramatic". If that's how it comes across, I can't do anything about that. It's things like my "high school" comment that people aren't hearing because they're seeing the word "high school". I'm trying to, quite humbly, explain that I understand where many of those posts come from because of the environment that high school creates where others are fostering a safe, nurturing and "fair" atmosphere. At first I was annoyed with the posts (well, still sort of am), but once I looked through their post history and realized that they were high schoolers, I understood their perspective.

          People are taking whatever little pieces of this they want to, to try and crucify me... and that's ok. I wrote what I wrote and I feel what I feel.

          Maybe it is now time for everyone else to follow their own advice and just move on if they don't like it. Like I did for quite a few months before I couldn't handle it anymore.

          [–]kennnnnnn 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

          I'm not trying to crucify you sorry if it comes off that way. It just annoys me to see someone complain as they do one or a few of the things they are complaining about. Maybe I'm reading you wrong? Regardless not trying to make you feel like shit. Sorrryz.

          [–]2DeluxeDry like your vagina. 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)