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Which player is actually our DM? (self.reddevils)

ireallyamsomethingRooney が 投稿

Whenever formations and positions are discussed I often see confusion regarding the DM position.

I have read something like: Pogba is not actually a DM, weak defensively, more of a box to box CM.

Herrera is too reckless, can't tackle.

Schneiderlin was poor last season because he played a more box to box role in Southampton.

Carrick controls the game with his precise passing, not a good tackler.

Schweinsteiger is a midfield general or whatever, controls the tempo, you can't really call him a DM.

Blind is an option but he struggled at times, especially against faster, better opposition.

So who exactly is our DM, if indeed such a position is pivotal to how our team shapes up?

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[–]darkcoolster 11ポイント12ポイント  (7子コメント)

Carrick is a dm like how Busquets is a dm. He reads the game and position himself wisely for interceptions, and imo he's pretty good at tackling. Good enough to be considered for CB when injuries hit.

Schneiderlin is a dm as well, a more conventional one that chases after the ball and wins it for you. He wasn't really that bad last season, pretty average for me. Hopefully he improves.

Blind is like a hybrid of these two, reads the game well and tackles decently. Sort of a jack of both trades but master of none

[–]fakeplasticairbag 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

When he was 30 sure.

Carrick these days can barely run. His passing is still fantastic but he isn't going to carry Pogba defensively and Pogba doesn't do much defending.

[–]frankowen18 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Absolutely. Carrick definitely cannot play as the DM with a more attacking player next to him like Pogba. We will be exposed time and again. Schneiderlin will play infront of the back four and I expect him to be far more effective in Mourinhos system.

[–]ireallyamsomethingRooney[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, Schneiderlin should improve hopefully, was quite underwhelming the previous season even in our defensive style of play.

[–]rb11_1994Giggs 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Tbf the way we were playing last year, we got attacked a lot on the counter. Schneiderlin is best when he's sitting ahead of the ball and he can read the game from a deeper position to make interceptions/tackles etc. He's just not quick enough to transition behind the ball like he was forced to last year. If he's sitting deep along a more aggressive, box to box partner (read: Pogba), there's no reason he can't be the same player he was at Southampton. Think we'll see a huge improvement from him, Mourinho knows how to use his specialist DMs (Cambiasso, Khedira, etc)

[–]PlugpinSolskjaer 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can see Schneiderlin being utilised as a DM, he might connect well with his compatriot, Pogba. That being said I've seen Pogba play both amazing passes and make some equally good tackles much like Carrick in some ways.

If Pogba can play the same way i.e clean up at the back and be attack minded then we may not need a recognised DM. This would allow for a more attacking set up provided we can trust our central defensive core like the old days of Rio, Vidic and Carrick.

[–]danskzwag 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Carrick was a DM like that 2 or 3 seasons ago his reading of the game and interceptions have fallen off massively

[–]PlugpinSolskjaer 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

True, I'm wondering if Jose will try to mould Pogba into a more defensive minded player or if he sees that ability in him.

His love of specialists would argue against that, though.

[–]knoxisback 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

schneiderlin prob

[–]fakeplasticairbag 4ポイント5ポイント  (10子コメント)

I think there's a very good chance we will buy one.

If Pogba plays in a midfield two he needs a really workhorse to carry him because he doesn't do much defensively.

Carrick, Schweinsteiger, Fellaini, Herrera, Blind can't run enough and/or can't defend well enough to do that.

That only leaves Schneiderlin as a viable partner to Pogba who was A) very average last season and not exactly a world beater in general and B) The rumours suggests isn't particularly rated by Jose.

I think there's a very good chance we buy a destroyer in. Jose has played with a pure destroyer in almost every club he's ever been at. The only exception really was Madrid and he still played Ramos or Pepe there at times and his box to box player was Khedira, a far more defensively sound player than Pogba and also he didn't have as much influence in transfers at Madrid as at all his other clubs.

In all his other jobs he had a player like Costinha, Makelele, Cambiasso, Matic who was playing a pure destroyer role. It's a role he really likes and given he's just signed an 8 who really needs to play with a destroyer to be effective all the signs point to us signing one.

[–]omegaxLoLAnder Herrera 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

People are forgetting Schneiderlin, while playing a box to box role for Southampton at times, still had a really high number of defensive actions per game, especially interceptions. If Mourinho can improve some aspects of his game (namely more consistent passing and better reading of the game), I think he can play that destructor role.

[–]fakeplasticairbag 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

still had a really high number of defensive actions per game, especially interceptions.

Defensive stats are almost entirely bullshit.

Interceptions especially (with tackles being even worse), truly great defenders mark so tightly their man is barely in a position to receive an attempted pass thus negating the need to intercept.

I remember Ian Wright talking about playing against Fabio Cannavaro and he said he never had to make any tackles or interceptions because his marking was so tight and flawless that Wright was never open for a pass.

You look back at that game on a spreadsheet and it would look like Cannavaro didn't even do anything.

[–]G_Morgan 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

If defensive stats meant anything then every year the top 4 would buy all the CBs and CMs from the relegated teams. They always top the tackles made chart for obvious reasons.

[–]frankowen18 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah but that doesn't necessarily refute his point that Schneiderlin can do a great job. I think people round here have fucking short memories. He was one of, if not the best DM in the league season before last. He was everywhere for Saints. No reason why he can't find that form for us.

[–]ireallyamsomethingRooney[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

We could buy someone but haven't really been seriously linked to anyone so far. Also with Jose saying multiple times about his 4 targets.

Schneiderlin is probably our best option currently but I wasn't impressed by him in the previous season. Had a couple of decent performances, some very disappointing ones (he was terrible against PSV at home), looked quite poor on the ball..hopefully he improves this season.

[–]fakeplasticairbag 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

We could buy someone but haven't really been seriously linked to anyone so far.

There's been quite a few Matic rumours around from reliable sources.

I don't imagine they'll want to play Kante and Matic together so he's probably available.

[–]ireallyamsomethingRooney[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I've heard the Matic rumours but did they go any further? I read that Conte may not be keen on selling to a direct rival. He can be pretty good, decent on the ball too.

[–]serious_dan 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Conte might not be keen but there's a good chance Matic would rather get a first team spot alongside Pogba than play second fiddle to Kante. Here's hoping anyway.

[–]DerFussballgott 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Iirc Conte said something similar about Cuadrado about not selling only for him to reportedly ask to leave a few days later. I don't Matic is as unattainable as some may think.

[–]G_Morgan 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think there's a very good chance we will buy one.

If we're going to do that we should be doing another Pogba style chase for Veratti. I'm not convinced we have time and I'm not certain it is a priority. Out of the players who we might ship on at some point in the future Schneiderlin seems the least onerous in the short term.

[–]DerFussballgott 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Which is why I wouldn't be surprised if we brought in a new one. We were linked to Matic a while back by Di Marzio so Mourinho might want another DM option and I'd agree with him. Morgan is the main option we have right now and I wouldn't be surprised at all if Mourinho wanted someone better.

[–]Irish-DevilThe Beautiful Ander Herrera 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Basti & Carrick Game about

[–]craigybachaManchester United 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Schneiderlin. He is our DM, and whilst he wasn't great last year it was mainly because of injuries. Fingers crossed he comes good, whenever he's had a run in the team he's looked very good at protecting the back 4.

[–]MoosjeMartial -2ポイント-1ポイント  (5子コメント)

I really don't think we need a new one. Give Schneiderlin a go under Mou, rotating him with Carrick and even TFM (who I want to be our DM going forward).

Don't get me wrong, I'd love a Busquets, but I really don't know which DM we'd be able to get that is a massive upgrade. Matic had an awful season last year, and for everyone that argues you need more than one season to judge, then use that logic on Schneiderlin.

[–]JosephGage -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

The role of DM isn't...or shouldn't be based on how good a tackler he is. This is a misconception.

The best defensive midfielders/shields are those players who have the intelligence to anticipate passes and intercept without the need to tackle, the intelligence to take up positions that fill gaps when fellow team mates are moved out of position. Tackling is absolute last resort.

That's their primary role, their secondary role is to be able to release the ball quickly and accurately to initiate an attack. The better defensive players can even hit the long balls.

In this respect, based on intelligence, Carrick and Blind would probably be the best suited to such a role.

[–]fakeplasticairbag 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

based on intelligence, Carrick and Blind would probably be the best suited to such a role.

No one who thinks Carrick (at 35) or Blind can partner Paul Pogba in a 2 man midfield has any business talking about intelligence.

[–]Lost_Afropick 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

When do we play this 2 man midfield of yours?

[–]fakeplasticairbag 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

We're going to play a 4-2-3-1. Jose almost always plays it and we've played it all pre season.

It will be Rooney at #10, Zlatan at #9 and two CM's behind them one of which is Pogba.

[–]ireallyamsomethingRooney[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Tackling may not be the most important aspect but I don't think it can be completely ignored. Blind is an option as I mentioned but he has been caught out of position a few times when he played there, also not helped by the fact that he isn't a particularly fast or strong (though he is intelligent).