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[–]FranceBimbelMarley 167ポイント168ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's a really poor translation.

French people very often use the word "dégouté" which means "disappointed". The literal English translation would be "disgusted" but that is not what it means in this context at all.

[–]Olympique de MarseillePonyWhisperer 71ポイント72ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah this is terrible, I think the best translation would be "gutted".

[–][deleted] 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

Not again...

Have heard this countless of times in the past year so hardly anything new. Anyone know what documentary they are talking about?

[–]Grenobleanthon38 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Intérieur Sport

Original

Youtube

The quoted part is at 3:30

[–][deleted] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Merci beaucoup!

[–]Saint Vincent and the Grenadinesjoey_dh 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

I swear we nearly went 10 minutes without having a "United were wrong to sell Pogba" article on the front page. I was starting to get worried.

[–][deleted] 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

Paul, Fergie has gone now so you can come back, yeah?

[–]JuventusSgtPepe 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

60m euros :)

[–]Manchester Unitedtubes92 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

:'(

[–]CubaSuaveRico 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Now he's the best young midfielder this season

[–]Manchester UnitedHeinz_Tomato_Ketchup 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Who cares, it's not like we need on...

oh...

[–][deleted] 14ポイント15ポイント  (2子コメント)

The world's best manager used an inconsistent 18-year-old sparingly. Get. Over. It.

[–]Scunthorpe UnitedOursIsTheFury67 25ポイント26ポイント  (1子コメント)

What's this about Nigel Adkins ?

[–]SouthamptonRavenxMiyagi 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

God bless Nigel Adkins

[–][deleted] 9ポイント10ポイント  (54子コメント)

Mancunian..

His first season coming through, Like any youngster you put them in sporadically. Sure Rafael isn't a centre mid but he's good going forward and works his socks off. I don't know why he keeps going over this, Surely one more season and he would have been a first team player in one of the best leagues in the world if he was such a mancunian.

He got 7 appearances, One in the Europa against bilbao, 3 in the league cup against leeds,aldershot and crystal palace I believe. And 3 in the premier league Wolves, stoke and West brom.

I watched him come through he was unplayable in the reserves but he just wasn't giving it his all to break into the senior squad, But i'll let you decide.

Pogba vs Leeds

Pogba Vs Aldershot : I couldn't find.

Pogba Vs Stoke

Pogba vs West brom:I couldn't find.

Pogba vs Wolves

Pogba vs Crystal palace

Pogba vs Athletic bilbao

[–]FC PortoLunaticHeart 33ポイント34ポイント  (8子コメント)

I agree with you on that one, he was very young at that time and he was being implemented in the team slowly, as it normally happens. Is it me or these young football players are full of themselves nowadays.

[–]Manchester Unitedtestbug0 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is it me or these young football players are full of themselves nowadays.

as Marcelo Bielsa put it, players are pre-mature millionaires

[–][deleted] 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

How was he full of it? He knew his capabilities and went to a team that would accommodate him. He slotted right into their midfield and won a title and played in CL with equal or better pay. He is know at a club who loves him and is playing week after week. He did the best thing he could have ever done for his career, if you are better then the rest there is no need to be "slowly" put into a team when you have a team that is just as good willing to play you. They say success is the best revenge, and I think that applies perfectly here.

[–]Manchester Unitedtestbug0 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

i'm not sure where revenge comes into this. he took a gamble for his own career and it paid off, fair play to him.

[–][deleted] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Not revenge in the traditional sense, but he had a manager and a club who didn't 100% believe in him and then he proved them wrong and went to a club that did.

[–]Manchester Unitedtestbug0 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

well, like i said in another comment on this, i don't think Pogba would have developed and had this much of an immediate impact at United, due to the system United plays.

Juve's 3-5-2 is great for him.

erg i'll just copy/paste the wall of text.

i think the move to Juventus was perfect for Pogba as their system allows him to flourish. i don't think he'd have this much of an immediate impact if he had stayed. Juve play a 3-5-2 with wingbacks and 3 central midfielders (Vidal/Pogba/Pirlo/Marchisio) so there is less pressure on the midfielders and more support since they often outnumber that area. United's traditional system puts a lot of emphasis on the 2 central midfielders to be able to keep possession and distribute it.

a lot of people seem to think he's like a Yaya Toure and assume he could do the same job for United, but that's not the case imo.

[–][deleted] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

A bit too much speculation for me, but I can understand your point sort of.

[–]ShowMeYourKaepFace -4ポイント-3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Did you even watch his games for us? He did not really warrant a starting position. Juve is also not as big a club as Utd.

[–]Arsenalbradimus_maximus 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

That is quite the claim. Quite the claim.

[–]Cork Citycolmshan1990 2ポイント3ポイント  (8子コメント)

Bilbao was Europa League, wasn't it?

[–][deleted] 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

Your spot on cheers, I'll change it! BTW how are city getting on this year ? I heard brownie got sold to preston north end?

[–]Cork Citycolmshan1990 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Pre-season literally just starting for us.

New manager, new squad (well, a new strikeforce anyway).

And yeah, Alan Browne was signed by Preston- I hope he does well there! He is probably the youth player we've had with the most potential since Shane Long.

[–][deleted] 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Really? I played against him for years when he played with ringmahon never thought he would possibly make it. They had such a good squad though any of there players could have gone on to play in england.

Only players I know who did are brownie and grimes(Leeds).

[–]Cork Citycolmshan1990 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Maybe he improved since then? A player can develop massively in a year or two at his age.

He's captained Ireland U19s, is two footed and looks very good on the ball. He didn't play a competitive match for the City senior side but looked really good in the U19 matches I saw (admittedly not a lot of them). To be fair, Shane Long didn't actually play for the senior side either, and Dave Meyler only played once or twice.

[–][deleted] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Oh don't get me wrong hes a class player, He probably has gone on and improved what about jason abbot is he still playing ?

[–]Cork Citycolmshan1990 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

He plays for the U19s (and will hopefully step up to the seniors this year), but didn't stand out like Browne did.

[–][deleted] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow looking at the squad I know a couple of players,Cork City; Chris Dineen, Darragh Lucey, Jason Forde; John Kavanagh, Jason Abbott, Alan Browne.

I don't know if they all still play for ye currently but I played against all of them. I personally no chris dineen very well, From secondary school and when he played for Wilton, Ringmahon.

[–]Legia WarszawaSpeed_Junkie -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

It was.

[–]rough_outline 5ポイント6ポイント  (28子コメント)

I think his point that if he can't get into central midfield ahead of Giggs and Rafael then he needs to move on to get first team playing him.

I honestly don't understand what Utd were thinking, he was good enough at the time to be starting certain games in the league, bottom half teams at home.

You look at players like Sterling, Shaw and Januzaj starting league games and playing to an incredible impressive level when they're around 18, Pogba would've been able to do the same.

A year later he makes 27 appearances in the league for Juventus, yet he was deemed not good enough by Utd less than a year earlier.

It's not a matter of he wasn't good enough and was being egotistical by demanding playing time, he was clearly good enough and just didn't get playing time.

I'm not even trying to twist the knife, I love watching him for Juve but it absolutely baffles me, if he was given a fair amount of games, he'd be bossing the Utd midfield now.

[–]Manchester Unitedtestbug0 1ポイント2ポイント  (8子コメント)

I think his point that if he can't get into central midfield ahead of Giggs and Rafael then he needs to move on to get first team playing him.

at 17 going on 18, worrying about not getting into the first team? do you know how ridiculous that sounds? looking at Man Utd's midfield, he should have known that he just needed to bide his time until the end of the season.

he was being eased into it slowly. he was impatient.

he was amazing for Man Utd's reserves, but so was Ravel Morrison then.

additionally, a year makes a world of a difference for youngsters in terms of footballing maturity and development. look at Januzaj just 3 months ago and now.

[–]rough_outline 7ポイント8ポイント  (7子コメント)

In the space of a summer, from moving to Juventus from Man Utd, Pogba didn't magically become a midfielder that makes 27 appearances in the league (37 overall) and massively impresses in the Juventus first team.

You're trying to make it sound ridiculous that a 17 year old could be impressive for a Premier League team when that is patently untrue. Look at Wayne Rooney for god's sake, or more recent examples such as Sterling or Shaw. These players are special, they'll probably become world class barring injuries, and they're not the same as most youth players who need longer before getting starts in the league.

Ravel Morrison is not in Pogba's class either, not even close, Morrison is in sporadic form for West Ham, Pogba is bossing Serie A. You basically treated Pogba like any other promising youth player, when in fact you had a world class player on your hands that was frustrated at getting no serious game time.

Like I said, giving him some starts at home to bottom half teams, alongside Carrick or Scholes, at the expense of Anderson (made 8 league starts), Cleverley (made 5 league starts) or Darron Gibson (made 1 league start) would've been perfectly fine. You look at it through a broad view and sure you could argue he was impatient but look at the players who got starts ahead of him, then you'd see why he should've had games and why he became disillusioned.

So please spin it whatever way you want but don't try to argue that the likes of Anderson, Cleverley and Gibson were more entitled to starts than Pogba. Ferguson got it wrong and he let slip a world class player who would've solved so many of your midfield problems.

[–]Manchester Unitedtestbug0 -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

firstly, his potential was never in doubt, he was promoted to training with the first team for a reason. the players in the dressing room knew he was good. he was on the cusp of making his breakthrough.

You're trying to make it sound ridiculous that a 17 year old could be impressive for a Premier League team when that is patently untrue. Look at Wayne Rooney for god's sake, or more recent examples such as Sterling or Shaw. These players are special, they'll probably become world class barring injuries, and they're not the same as most youth players who need longer before getting starts in the league.

stop putting words in my mouth and read what i said.

at 17 going on 18, worrying about not getting into the first team? do you know how ridiculous that sounds? looking at Man Utd's midfield, he should have known that he just needed to bide his time until the end of the season.

there was no need to rush him into first team action. Ferguson doesn't play youth players unless he thinks they have potential. Pogba was impatient and wanted to play more straight away. he took a gamble leaving (and his agent got a nice million+ paycheck) and it paid off, fair play to him.

‘Against Blackburn, on December 31, 2011, I was on the bench. Ferguson puts Rafael in midfield with Ji Sung Park. Then I gave up. I was really bummed.’

Ferguson values players with the right mentality (right as in Fergie's way) as well as ability. he has always put the club above any player, no matter how good they are, to a fault.

Ravel Morrison is not in Pogba's class either, not even close, Morrison is in sporadic form for West Ham, Pogba is bossing Serie A. You basically treated Pogba like any other promising youth player, when in fact you had a world class player on your hands that was frustrated at getting no serious game time.

such easy statements to make now isn't it?

Ravel Morrison was rated as one of the best youth prospects (as shown in his performances for the youth teams and reserves) signed by SAF when he was 14 but he had disciplinary problems that Ferguson didn't like.

SAM ALLARDYCE still remembers the conversation with Sir Alex Ferguson two years ago that led to him signing Ravel Morrison: if you can sort this lad out, he was told, you’ll have one of the best players you’ve ever had.

/

Like I said, giving him some starts at home to bottom half teams, alongside Carrick or Scholes, at the expense of Anderson (made 8 league starts), Cleverley (made 5 league starts) or Darron Gibson (made 1 league start) would've been perfectly fine. You look at it through a broad view and sure you could argue he was impatient but look at the players who got starts ahead of him, then you'd see why he should've had games and why he became disillusioned.

on hindsight, it's easy to say Pogba should have started more games, but not even fans who followed the youth and reserve teams were questioning SAF's decision not to play him more. most were happy that he was training/integrating with the first team and getting a few minutes here and there.

his impact at Juventus so soon was a big surprise to many. fact is, if you've actually watched his games for Man Utd, you could tell he was still very raw. talented but still finding his feet.

additionally, Cleverley was another youngster who was older and looked promising. he had also finished a whole season on loan at Wigan in the PL, he fully justified being given his chances. it's easy to dismiss Cleverley since he's going through a bad patch but he's still a good player.


on a sidenote, i think the move to Juventus was perfect for Pogba as their system allows him to flourish. i don't think he'd have this much of an immediate impact if he had stayed.

Juve play a 3-5-2 with wingbacks and 3 central midfielders (Vidal/Pogba/Pirlo/Marchisio) so there is less pressure on the midfielders and more support since they often outnumber that area. United's traditional system puts a lot of emphasis on the 2 central midfielders to be able to keep possession and distribute it.

[–]rough_outline 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

You're whole argument seems to rest on "not rushing him through", how is giving him a few starts in the league rushing him through? He just needed to be shown that he was being considered for the first team, he obviously felt like he wasn't given a fair chance and to be fair, he really wasn't.

Plenty of Utd fans were saying he should've been given a chance, but that's besides the point, his success at Juventus was not a surprise at all, he was given a chance and he took it. If he'd been given a chance at Utd, he would've had a similar impact.

[–]Manchester Unitedtestbug0 -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

You're whole argument seems to rest on "not rushing him through", how is giving him a few starts in the league rushing him through? He just needed to be shown that he was being considered for the first team, he obviously felt like he wasn't given a fair chance and to be fair, he really wasn't.

the fact that he was one of the 4 youth team players promoted to train with the first team.

you questioned Cleverley being given games earlier, he was older than Pogba, showed more signs that he was ready for first team football and was touted as a possible successor to Scholes who retired. he even had a full season of PL football under his belt on loan at Wigan but only had 5 starts.

fact is, Pogba was ambitious and confident. as much as you'd like to use this as an opportunity to take a swipe at United/Ferguson, stuff like this happens.

ps. if Pogba's world class ability was so widely apparent, why was Juventus the only club to make a move for him? his agent is Mino Raiola, one of the 'super agents' in football, surely he would have touted him to all the top clubs.

Plenty of Utd fans were saying he should've been given a chance, but that's besides the point, his success at Juventus was not a surprise at all, he was given a chance and he took it. If he'd been given a chance at Utd, he would've had a similar impact.

highly doubtful. those comments are likely made in hindsight. aft saying he would have had a similar impact at Man Utd as he did at Juve is pure speculation considering the completely different systems the team uses.

[–]rough_outline 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm not taking a swipe at Ferguson/Utd, I'd be saying the same of any club that let a player like Pogba go for nothing.

Who says that Juventus were the only club in for him? Even so, Juventus are a massive club, they rated him at that level.

Stuff like this happens? Clubs don't just let world class midfielders go, this is an extremely rare fuck up.

[–]Manchester Unitedtestbug0 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Football-News/2011/Aug/ferguson-to-promote-pogba.aspx

Who says that Juventus were the only club in for him? Even so, Juventus are a massive club, they rated him at that level.

they weren't? where did you read that he had other offers? this would be news to me.

Stuff like this happens? Clubs don't just let world class midfielders go, this is an extremely rare fuck up.

the Pogba at United wasn't yet a world class midfielder, unless he was holding himself back during his cameos.

[–][deleted] 2ポイント3ポイント  (15子コメント)

All fair points, But Manchester united have a tradition of slowly bringing players into the starting eleven. It's just the way it is.

[–]rough_outline 0ポイント1ポイント  (14子コメント)

How many appearances did Januzaj make last season?

[–][deleted] 1ポイント2ポイント  (13子コメント)

0 he was brought up for the last 2 games by fergie if I remember correctly. And only made the bench against west brom on the last day.

[–]rough_outline 0ポイント1ポイント  (12子コメント)

Now he's starting most games, he's 18 but apparently Utd have a tradition of slowly bringing players into the starting eleven, you're making it up as you go along.

Ferguson got it massively wrong on Pogba, you're just spinning it.

[–]Newcastle Unitedmikroe55 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

you got to know manu changed their manager though, so its moyes who decides to use januzaj more often this season not ferguson

[–]jamdoughnut 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He didn't. Pogba wasn't good enough when he played. Januzaj was. It's really that simple. Anytime Pogba made an appearance in the first team he looked average, and in the year he left he looked average in the reserves. He was offered a contract that him and his agent deemed not good enough.

If you wish to put your own narrative on it that's your prerogative.

[–]Manchester Unitedtestbug0 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

you're clearly ignorant on the subject so stop embarrassing yourself let it go.

Januzaj has played a total of 1048minutes, that equates to 11 games. not to mention you conveniently ignore the fact that a new manager has come in and is trying to do things his way. additionally, injuries leaving the midfield short handed even with Jones playing in midfield.

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/players/ea-sports-player-performance-index.html?paramSearchTerm=januzaj&paramClubId=&paramSeason=2013-2014&paramPosition=&paramEaBreakdownType=ACCUMULATIVE&paramGameWeek=1&paramItemsPerPage=20&paramSelectedPageIndex=1

[–]rough_outline 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Now he's starting most games,

He's started 7 of the last 8 games in the league for Utd.

[–]Manchester Unitedtestbug0 -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

not to mention you conveniently ignore the fact that a new manager has come in and is trying to do things his way. additionally, injuries

[–]rough_outline -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Nice, editing your post after I reply, lovely bit of revisionism.

To be honest, you could argue that Januzaj could've played last season under Ferguson. This season he's performed better than Young, Kagawa, Valencia and Nani.

[–]EnglandDerDummeMann[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Januzaj has made 14 starts and 6 sub appearances this season. So hardly starting most games.

It's only in the past few games that he's been starting all the time because Rooney,RVP and Nani have been injured.

[–][deleted] -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

Shut up ya muppet, You stated it as if januzaj played last season. On top of januzaj taking his chance while he got them by actually playing well.

[–]rough_outline -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Giving it verbals online, and I'm the muppet?

[–][deleted] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You asked a question thinking januzaj actually played last season, I responded with a fact. There was no need to act like a cunt.

you're making it up as you go along. Ferguson got it massively wrong on Pogba, you're just spinning it.

[–]RangersElgin_McQueen 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Sterling is a good example. Clearly a great talent, but last season he had too many games too quick. He burned out and was barely seen in the second half of the season.

[–]rough_outline 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Definitely, a player who was good enough and brilliant in the team but wasn't managed well and ended up burning out.

[–]RangersElgin_McQueen 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Which is exactly the type of thing that Man Utd under Fergie tended to do a good job of avoiding.

[–]Manchester Unitedtestbug0 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

not to mention, i remember a cup game? where Rafael and Fabio played in midfield with Ji Sung Park vs Arsenal and Man Utd won

so it's not as if Rafael can't do a job there.

[–]JamaicaTipsyRedditor 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Dunno about you but I'd be disheartened if they threw in a player out of position to do a job, even though I was capable and would've benefited more

[–]RangersElgin_McQueen 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

So would I, but I'd consider it less of a challenge to knock them out of the reckoning.

[–]Manchester UnitedMisterMonacle 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Just so you know, Rafael and Fabio played on the wings in that match.

[–]Manchester Unitedtestbug0 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

yep i just found the match, O'Shea was in central midfield...

[–]Manchester Unitedtamasuperstar 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

I wish the media would stop harping on this fucking narrative, and I wish he'd stop feeding it to them.

You're at Juve, you get playing time, you're a great player. Concentrate on your football and stop banging on about United.

[–][deleted] 86ポイント87ポイント  (0子コメント)

He was almost definitely asked about it by a reporter.

[–]baby_bomb_squad -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

He definitely has a bone to pick with Ferguson. Its like he wanted to play first team at Utd the whole time but Ferguson never gave him the opportunity. Now that he is running shit and banging in goals he's using this time to say "I told you so"

[–]Manchester UnitedOctopus69 -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

The media is hyping this story too much. I don't really care that he left United in all honesty. It was a choice between Ferguson and Pogba, and I don't think Pogba can EVER come close to SAF's value for a club.. lol

[–]Bayern Münchenaznsacboi -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

you know, what, I think Fergie is pretty happy with his career, with or without Pogba.