全 66 件のコメント

[–]eternityablazeAnarcho-Capitalist 23ポイント24ポイント  (8子コメント)

Welcome aboard.

Your next step is to go debate socialists at /r/socialism until you get banned.

Once you have been banned, post about it here and then you will be an official member of anarcho_capitalism.

[–]smash909non-libertarian ancap 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Your next step is to go debate socialists at /r/socialism until you get banned.

Is being banned from r/anarchism good enough?

[–]jscoppeAnarcho-Capitalist 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nah, too easy.

[–]_CapR_Minarchist 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Your next step is to go debate socialists at /r/socialism until you get banned.

Haha. That's one way of getting initiated into the community.

[–]RHoneyMonster 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is it any harder to get banned from than being liberal?

[–]LOST_TALERadical. No concession. 2+1=3 you die. 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you need help, let me know. No one does it as good as me.

[–]AbnormallyAverageGuyAncap 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lmfao. Thanks for the laugh friend.

[–]JustThall 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Damn, I forgot to post about my ban over here

[–]PhilipGlover 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Or you could debate in an manner that doesn't get you banned. You know, like someone actually interested in debating.

Telling people how wrong they are when you don't even understand their semantics isn't debating.

[–]fitzdeplCant Stoppe the Hoppe 17ポイント18ポイント  (9子コメント)

Once you go down the rabbit hole, you cant go out

[–]misesfan463728 5ポイント6ポイント  (7子コメント)

I have to admit, I was ancap for a while, but I'm not sure I am anymore. I'm more of a Randian/Hoppean/city-state-minarchist with ancap tendencies. I don't think this is inconsistent with ancap (if the city states are built on private land), but for all practical purposes I think I'm a minarchist.

Anyone here have thoughts on these types of things?

[–]JamesshruggedAnarchObjectivist 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Minarchism (especially Randian) is defacto anarchist capitalism. Once you take away the governments ability to tax to support itself outside the will of its customers and allow the right of secession (competing enforcement agencies) you're at anarchy for all intents and purposes.

[–]fitzdeplCant Stoppe the Hoppe 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

if the resident of the city states are their voluntarily, your an ancap for all intents and pruposes

[–]PeppermintPigCharismatic Anti-Ruler 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Anyone here have thoughts on these types of things?

Get well soon. :P

[–]tconwk 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's all a matter of principle in my opinion. To me you cannot fund police/fire/minimalistic services through taxation because that is force. Stealing people's money at gunpoint is wrong no matter how you slice it and no matter how long people have been complicit.

If you want to turn it around and say that we can still have those services but they can be voluntarily/privately funded.. there goes the whole minarchist position and you're back to being AnCap/voluntaryist.

[–]edgycirclesVoluntaryist 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've taken to describing myself as a polycentrist. I do fully believe in the viability of a purely market economy, but Ive started to think that it's naive to assume that model is ideal in every situation.

For example, imagine that a firm wants to plan a city. Maybe they need a population to work a remote resource, maybe they want to design a community for a specific lifestyle, maybe they just want to make profit providing the best possible city. Whatever the reason we must realize that the arrangement this firm would have with the citizens is undeniably state-esque. The firm might set rules for things like construction or even behavior. This is within their right if the firm is the one who created all the infrastructure in the first place. The key however is that the arrangement is voluntary. The citizens must be allowed to leave if the arrangement becomes unfavorable.

I don't see how the above would be inconsistent with ancap. In a addition to that the voluntary world would also have things like religious sects, socialist communes, or just highly effective private court systems that have a local natural monopoly on law a la the state. I don't see a reason why we would have to condemn those arrangements as long as the people have the right to disconnect from the political structure. I used to imagine the ancap world as global free market capitalism in its purest form. But now I tend to feel that the voluntary world would essentially be a global marketplace of decentralized, competing, fluid and ever-changing power structures. The most important thing is just that we don't let one power structure forcefully overtake the rest. I think the heart of ancap is that people get to choose what rules they live by. And that is best summed up as "polycentric law". It's naive to assume Rothbard figured it all out so acknowledging that the entire world won't be a perfect implementation of Rothbardian capitalism is IMO the next big step for ancap/voluntaryism to take.

Plus I've found it's MUCH more easy to make a case to statists for polycentric law than strict anarcho-capitalism

[–]DerMefErik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

For me, it's a matter of practicability. We can all agree on the philosophical superiority of the NAP and a society organized around it, but in my opinion it's much easier for a present day society to be successful if it's organized in a minarchist way rather than an anarcho-capitalist way.

Also, I think there are several issues where the consequentialist can argue that a government produces a better outcome. For example, if everyone in a society is taxed to provide money for children to go to school, that society might be more successful at increasing its population's productivity than a society where poor parents can't afford to get a basic education for their children.

[–]bearjewpacabra -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

minarchist

In other words, you are a statist.

[–]PardaleanAnarcho-Capitalist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm going to ride your comment:

Wow, you gullible bastards chugged that bait.

Just 15 minutes before making this post, OP was going all "make me some tendies mom" on /r/the_donald.

Fastest.Transition.Ever.

[–]FacehAnti-Federalist - /r/Rational_Liberty 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Haha, if you're going to be an Ancap, be prepared for a month or two of feeling near abject-despair as it slowly dawns on you just how momentously screwed we are, how entrenched the state and it's beneficiaries are, and how completely the populace accepts and even adores the state.

Might even have a hard time getting up in the morning when you know full well you have to spend another day laboring under the watchful eye and heavy fist of a government that claims the authority to take your earnings, belongings, and your life should you cross it.

You'll get through it.

Then start seeking out ways to actually fight back and free yourself for real.

[–]Prometheus720Building Maitreya 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

In the long-run it's worth it. I feel much more hopeful about what humanity is capable of than I did before I became an ancap.

That's probably because of my humanist leanings, but it's true.

[–]sentientbeings 10ポイント11ポイント  (5子コメント)

I am want to be an AnCap now.

FTFY. Not trying to dampen your enthusiasm, but rather focus it. If you came from the Trump camp and liked some of his policies you've got a lot to learn. Sometimes we hear people claim they've left anarcho-capitalism behind and when we ask why it's obvious they never understood the fundamentals.

You've got the most important part down already - Love liberty, F the State. The next step is to get to reading the materials listed on the side bar, or do search for "recommended reading" within the AnCap sub. Try The Pretense of Knowledge and The Use of Knowledge in Society by Hayek, Economics in One Lesson by Hazlitt, The Machinery of Freedom by Friedman, and The Problem of Political Authority by Huemer. When you've got some time, For a New Liberty by Rothbard (if you read Friedman first you'll easily spot the flaws, but it's still excellent), maybe Socialism by Mises, and throw in something by Hoppe for good measure. Edit: maybe I, Pencil for a short read at the beginning as well.

[–]edgycirclesVoluntaryist 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's a lot ancaps can cheer for in Trump.

The big ones IMO are

1) The first major party candidate since Barry Goldwater to actually specifically condemn US empire building and world policing.

2) An intense criticism of and an actual chance of getting out of insanely corrupt globalist organizations and treaties such as WTO, NATO, NAFTA etc.

3) The massive pushback to PC culture he is doing. We are not going to get anywhere as long as we live in a culture that thinks crying "racism!" is a legitimate argument. The leftist media is self destructing because they don't know how to deal with someone that goes outside their narrative and can't be controlled. This is undeniably good for us.

Additionally we must realize the implications of his stance on immigration. Sure, it is not in line with libertarian principles but if he actually clamps down on immigration we are given a huge boost. The Democratic Partyts strategy in the US has since LBJ has been to import poor poor people from 3rd world countries and buy votes with welfare. If Trump slows the import of socialists, our job becomes exponentially easier.

We must acknowledge that electing Trump may actually be a viable strategy for us. Is he magically going to fix everything? Of course not, politics can never fix things. But he gives pushback to cultural Marxism and globalism, which are two things that need to be destroyed if we are ever to create a voluntary society. Also don't give two shits about throwing a bone to the libertarian party. They have repeatedly sold out libertarian values for decades. They are just GOP-lite at this point. IMO I think our best bet is to either abstain from voting or vote Trump. Both, in a way, are protest votes that give a huge middle finger to the leftist establishment.

[–]Anen-o-meConcurrent-Nomocracy: "Rule of the self by the self." 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Congrats, big step. It gets better as you begin reading and the foundation solidifies. Get yourself nose deep in good economics and political theory.

[–]GuyFromV 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Don't listen to anything anyone in this thread tells you but me.

[–]LOST_TALERadical. No concession. 2+1=3 you die. 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yesterday I smelled a legendary post in r/ancapcopypasta

of the kind : myth corrections

[–]bearjewpacabra 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Story of Your Enslavement

The Most Dangerous Superstition

The Complete and Undeniable Truth

Dismantling Democracy in 2 Minutes

Do you really know what it means to call yourself an ancap?

You can't get rid of the state, without 1st crushing the state within yourself. In all its forms. Why? The state is just an idea. If the idea still exists within yourself it will never truly end.

[–]PardaleanAnarcho-Capitalist 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow, you gullible bastards chugged that bait.

Just 15 minutes before making this post, OP was going all "make me some tendies mom" on /r/the_donald.

Fastest.Transition.Ever.

[–]anotherforgottenmanAnarchy Reigns 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Welcome fellow traveler.

[–]tloznerdo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Get some popcorn, a thick skin, guns, ammo, and gold, and you'll fit right in here

[–]jscoppeAnarcho-Capitalist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fuck them.

Sounds about right.

[–]PeppermintPigCharismatic Anti-Ruler 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Welcome!

[–]Eagle_Tech_AlphaAntidisestablishmentarian 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Schill!!

[–]dissidentrhetoric 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

congratulations, now you are ready for the next level. Please send me $44000 dollar to my western union and I will tell you how to get to the next level.

[–]InGodWeTrust1776NRx anarcho-capitalist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

What a shame. You had so much potential.

[–]libertarienClassy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Welcome. Please help spread the word.

[–]BBQCopter 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Come over to /r/capitalismvsocialism and help us show those commies how wrong they are!

[–]megaxxx00BoogaBerg 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Now you need to watch: THE TRUTH ABOUT STEPHAN MOLYNEUX

[–]soskroodLord of the Land 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

sit back and enjoy the theater.

[–]sunflowerfreedomEcclesiocratic Neo-Propertarian Lovarchist & Lulzarchist 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

u can still support trump

[–]ironclad_capillariesVoluntarist 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Is this a question or a statement?

[–]sunflowerfreedomEcclesiocratic Neo-Propertarian Lovarchist & Lulzarchist -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

yes

[–]of_ice_and_rockto fight upward, out of that chaos: goo.gl/GN7XGp -4ポイント-3ポイント  (5子コメント)

What is "the naked truth about the state"?

[–]ludwigvonmises 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

That the emperor has no clothes.

[–]of_ice_and_rockto fight upward, out of that chaos: goo.gl/GN7XGp -4ポイント-3ポイント  (2子コメント)

So, anti-authoritarianism is one and the same thing as facile anarchism?

Maybe it's the anarchists who are pushing theft.

[–]ludwigvonmises 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm not sure I understand your inference. The "naked truth about the State" is fact that political authority (and political obligation) is a false concept. The State doesn't have the right to pass laws, nor are citizens under a duty to follow them.

[–]of_ice_and_rockto fight upward, out of that chaos: goo.gl/GN7XGp 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is lawful authority a false concept?

[–]Eagle_Tech_AlphaAntidisestablishmentarian 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That the state is parasitic.

[–]twoambienI'm not an "Anarcho" Capitalist -5ポイント-4ポイント  (11子コメント)

I would bet money you couldn't pass a simple test on ancap talking points. You're not a fucking ancap. You heard some propaganda and liked it.

Explain to me the role the NAP plays in an ancap society and how it's enforced. Also who will build the roads? And isn't Somalia proof anarcho-capitalism wont work? Also why do ancaps called themselves anarchists when anarchism is against capitalism?

[–]m8na1cL5 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Can you explain some of that stuff to me? I've been interested in what you guys are arguing for here.

[–]afrotec 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

In my opinion, if you're interested in these things, it's really best to do some reading on your own and come to your own conclusions, rather than simply taking the typical responses to these questions as fact. These are common talking points, with common responses, but if you don't come to the conclusions for yourself, you'll just be echoing the thoughts of others without understanding much of the reasoning behind it.

Edit: Briefly, from my perspective: The Non-Aggression Principle suggests that it is wrong to initiate force against somebody else. This is logically derived from the principle of self-ownership, meaning that you own only your own body, and that which you create. Initiating force against somebody else is a violation of these principles, and as such, the party being subject to aggression has the right to defend themselves proportionally.

Roads: I always thought this was dumb, but it is a very common objection to anarchism by people who are uneducated in the subject. Start talking to 'unenlightened' people about anarchy, and this is one of the first things they will probably say. Anarcho-capitalism advocates for truly free markets, and as such, it's reasonable to assume that it would be economically beneficial for somebody to build a road from point A to point B and then charge people a fee to use it. People are often confused and discouraged by this because on the surface, people assume that fees = bad. However, consider that EVERY american is currently paying a 'fee' for the roads in several different ways: federal taxes, state taxes, and municipal taxes. This means that many people who do not drive are paying for roads, and it also means that many people who drive more than average are still paying the same amount as everybody else, even though they are utilizing the roads much more than other people. It makes more sense to charge for actual use, rather than a flat fee to every american citizen.

Somalia: I don't know enough about Somalia to elaborate here, so I'll save this for somebody else more informed.

ancap vs. anarcism: I don't have a good reply for this, but in my own personal perspective, this seems to be a matter of semantics and how you define the word anarchy. To me, anarchy means absence of the state, where the individual is free to do as they please without coercion. I feel that capitalism is natural and inevitable, and I have no problems with it as long as all parties are exchanging voluntarily. A 'true anarchist' would likely say that capitalism's hierarchical nature is inherently predatory and allows the business owners to take advantage of their employees, turning them into wage slaves. But personally, I feel that people should be free to do as they chose, and if this means working for somebody else and getting paid a mere fraction of the value they create, then so be it. I am a Voluntaryist, however, so not everybody here will have the same perspective.

Feel free to correct me on anything I've stated; I'm still developing my views and am very open to be convinced that I'm wrong on these topics. I'm also trying to get better at expressing my viewpoints succinctly (particurlary political ones) and am open to criticism if others feel I haven't explained something accurately.

[–]ironclad_capillariesVoluntarist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

twoambien is a troll. Spend some time in the sidebar, and please ignore twoambien.

[–]Eagle_Tech_AlphaAntidisestablishmentarian 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Also who will build the roads?

One of the biggest conumdrums science has yet to answer. You know, nobody has ever witnessed a road being built? How do we even know roads are built?

What if roads are manifested with positive energy? I think if we would just stop fighting, learn to meditate, and concentrate on roads, we could build them with our positive energy.

I'm not sure if I believe in the roadworker astronaut theory, but I'm keeping an open mind. I guess I just don't see why aliens would want to build roads on earth, but it is an interesting thought.

[–]twoambienI'm not an "Anarcho" Capitalist -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

Part of building roads is paying for them and planning where to build them, dumb fuck. That's what that question means, not simply who will lay the pavement.

[–]baronfel66 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I have an idea. We can build roads to connect places people might travel between!

[–]twoambienI'm not an "Anarcho" Capitalist -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's a good idea.

Who pays for them?

[–]robstahChoice is Beautiful 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

TAXES!!!

[–]fukthehabsself rule. -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

2/10 troll. Too obvious.

[–]twoambienI'm not an "Anarcho" Capitalist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

10/10 troll

--Said nobody ever.

If all trolling is bad -- 'bad trolling' means nothing.

And I wasn't trolling anyway, the troll here is you. I guarantee you he does not know the ancap talking point responses to those questions. If this noob debated me I would tear him apart.

[–]martinlinsky 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Im surprised you got all that out in one breath seeing how youre deep throating a rat choad