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top 200 commentsshow 500
[–]GoldPenis 601 points602 points603 points  (198 children)
Put in jail for failing to pay child support
[–]rehtulx 371 points372 points373 points  (132 children)
I've never understood this logic. Maybe jail them for the weekends, and pick up trash for 12 hours a day Saturday to Sunday until they pay it off and get motivated enough to come up with a budget...but jailing altogether seems ass backwards.
[–]YeahTacos [score hidden]  (27 children)
The cycle goes like this: Fail to pay child support, go to jail. Get out of jail, can't get a job because.... jail. So fail to pay child support, back to jail you go! What the fuck, America?
[–]riningear [score hidden]  (14 children)
At some point you go to prison, which is where the prisons start making money off of you.
[–]Vajazzlercise [score hidden]  (6 children)
I'll paste what I wrote in another thread because it's just as relevant here:
People like to say that "prison labor is the new slavery" is hyperbole but I think most of them don't realize that it's literally in the 13th amendment:
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
[–]YeahTacos [score hidden]  (5 children)
Then prisons should pay for child support.
[–]flynnsanity3 [score hidden]  (1 child)
I mean I think that the cycle needs to be broken, but it should be done by something other than passing the cost off to somebody else.
[–]YeahTacos [score hidden]  (0 children)
Just a joke, but still ridiculous to go to PRISON for not paying an amount of money. Parents leave their kids in hot cars, refuse to vaccinate, refuse to take them to doctors when sick... THAT'S neglect.
[–]Chance4e [score hidden]  (2 children)
Jail is supposed to be a deterrent. If the threat of jail isn't enough to get you to straighten out, then.... see, that's the thing. No one thought about the "then" part of this equation when they wrote these laws.
[–]drunkenviking [score hidden]  (1 child)
That's why the prisons should put more work towards reform rather than punishment.
[–]1P221 [score hidden]  (7 children)
Like giving someone out of school suspension for missing too much school.
That'll teach 'em!
[–]916hotdogs [score hidden]  (4 children)
I learned this trick in Jr High. If I was given detention I had to stay an 1 hour late every day, but if I missed detention they'd punish me by giving me a week of half days in a trailer classroom with other delinquents.
Kind of a no brainer.
One time I was walking home from school after being suspended, and the police stopped me asking why I wasn't in school. When I said I had been suspended, he called the school to verify. "Well, ok then!"
I felt like I unlocked some dark secrets of the universe that year, and my education suffered greatly.
[–]merekisgreat [score hidden]  (0 children)
It's funny because this is also actually how it works at a lot of places
[–]GoldPenis 92 points93 points94 points  (51 children)
Agreed the worse that I can see is if the man has a ton of money and good job and just refuses to pay out of spite or just a crap human. Then fine that guy is an asshole and the government should just take the money from him and garnish his wages. If the guy can't pay because he doesn't have the money then why put him in jail.
[–]rhn94 102 points103 points104 points  (34 children)
people have been sent to jail for 13 years for having like a couple of joints in their pocket
if you're poor, you can't afford a lawyer, and then you're at the whim of people who can prosecute you to further their careers
[–]Sausages_Rule 42 points43 points44 points  (20 children)
And the private jail companies give payback. Costs a lot to keep someone for 13 years and that cash stolen straight from taxes.
[–]balancetransfertw [score hidden]  (18 children)
Private jails are only 6% of prisons ffs. We got issues but let's stop blaming all of them on "private corporate" prisons.
[–]Sausages_Rule [score hidden]  (0 children)
Not true. It's 19.1% federal and 6.9% state.
It doesn't look good with what ever the reason is because the US has more of it's own citizens locked up than any other country in the World.
It's been proven that the non-violent criminals come out worse than they went in.
[–]Bartman383 [score hidden]  (3 children)
And that's 6% way to fucking high. Anytime someone can profit off another human is either employment or slavery. I'm betting these guys aren't getting a W2.
[–]WhamburgerWFries [score hidden]  (0 children)
Well the government clearly knows what they are doing on all things it tries to do. /s. The whole system is fucked up. Oh yeah and they don't pay taxes.
[–]jrob1235789 [score hidden]  (1 child)
To put it in perspective 6% is about 1/20.
Not all of them are bad though. It depends on what corporation is running them. I have one near me that is pretty well run.
But if a corporation like the CCA is running it, then the prisoners are fucked. The CCA is evil.
[–]vertigo1083 [score hidden]  (0 children)
Regardless, private or not-
The state prisons in the US are the biggest business around. Straight up "legal" racketeering. They are not kept in check, full of corruption, greed, and do very little for "reformation" of prisoners.
It functions as a straight up business and nothing else. From private sector, to corporate, to state and federal ran facilities.
I'm pretty sure that's the point the guy was trying to make. What kind of prison it is- is largely irrelevant. They all revolve around the dollar.
[–]SweeterThanYoohoo [score hidden]  (0 children)
To me that doesn't matter. Profit motive has no place in some fields.
[–]Teledildonic [score hidden]  (0 children)
That's still 6% too many.
[–]flamingboard [score hidden]  (2 children)
The correct question is how much are they spending on lobbying and what percentage of prison spending goes to private prisons.
[–]tgoodri [score hidden]  (0 children)
'We're gonna put you in jail until you come up with the money'
Umm excuse me? This country is fucked until we make some very drastic changes
[–]newloaf [score hidden]  (3 children)
"come up with a budget", he says. I don't have any sympathy for deadbeat dads, BUT, I'm sure there are a few thousand guys out there who just. Can't. Fucking. Find. Work.
[–]Thedurtysanchez [score hidden]  (2 children)
You don't owe child support if you aren't working.
[–]NickCageIsAWoman [score hidden]  (0 children)
Yeah, you do. Child support is indeed calculated based off how many kids you are responsible for and your income. However, states have a minimum support to cover in the event the non-custodial parent is unemployed. Simply being a parent out of work doesn't mean your kids no longer need food, clothes, a home, medicine, etc. It means you get off your ass and get a fucking job.
Soirce: Was a non-custodial parent for 3 years, paid $650 per month for my daughter that is now with me.
[–]Abandon_The_Thread_ [score hidden]  (7 children)
Yeahhhh remember how debtor's jail is supposed to be illegal as fuck???
[–]Abandon_The_Thread_ [score hidden]  (3 children)
Holy shit! SINCE FUCKING WHEN?!?!?!?
[–]Colin_Kaepnodick [score hidden]  (2 children)
Couple weeks ago. Crazy.
[–]Abandon_The_Thread_ [score hidden]  (1 child)
Oh ok phew. If it's only been a couple weeks then I'm good. Now a couple months, on the other hand... Eeeesh.
[–]smashlock [score hidden]  (0 children)
Yeah, that's for creditors. Not for what is basically child neglect
[–]Sven2774 [score hidden]  (0 children)
Now that I think about it, this sounds like a Debtors prison.
[–]r0b0d0c [score hidden]  (1 child)
Prison is the answer for everything in this country. Except, of course, for Wall Street bankers. They have different (no) rules.
[–]WhamburgerWFries [score hidden]  (0 children)
No they go to the resort prisons. Like whatever the one blago is in.
[–]kickercvr [score hidden]  (1 child)
Life doesn't matter to business, only profits. And locking up slaves is business.
[–]Eapie_314 [score hidden]  (0 children)
Yep, they get paid for every person in the prison, so it is beneficial to these businesses to push for draconian laws. The more people locked up, the larger the bottom line.
If your bored sometime, look up who is on the board for GEO Prisons...it's companies like Goldman Sachs and the like. Major Corps with major lobbying power.
[–]FeelsGoodMan2 [score hidden]  (0 children)
Modern day debtors' prison.
[–]Rhawk187 [score hidden]  (0 children)
Yeah. The criminal justice system think it only has one mechanism for when people don't follow the rules, jail them for longer and longer periods. Just like government thinks it only has one mechanism for manipulating revenue, raising or lowering the income tax. We need real innovative solutions for these problems, but are elected officials don't seem to be smart enough to figure it out.
[–]Thedurtysanchez [score hidden]  (2 children)
Jailing for child support is incredibly rare and almost universally not recommended by judges or lawyers. If a guy gets jailed for a child support issue, he probably deserves it for good reason.
Source: Family lawyer
[–]Doeselbbin [score hidden]  (0 children)
Not rare where I'm from
Source: just as credible as yours
[–]TheReddHobbit [score hidden]  (0 children)
Do you practice in Oklahoma?
[–]kory_dc [score hidden]  (0 children)
An older guy I know had to pay child support while in prison and almost 10 years later hes still paying off that debt.
[–]billythestudly [score hidden]  (0 children)
Maybe he's like my cousin, dodging child support (but having the ability to pay) for 9 years. SC doesn't play with child support! They jailed a woman for it. She's family but in my mind? Yeah, she coulda paid, she shoulda paid, she didn't and now she's locked up and she deserves it.
[–]ChrisPynerr [score hidden]  (0 children)
Picking up garbage doesn't make the jailing system any money. The jailing system in America funds alot of politicians. If you were a politician would you vote to change a bill that will take money out of your pocket? And ultimately could get you kicked out of your 200K a year job.
[–]KaldisGoat [score hidden]  (0 children)
Was it a private prison? If so, it's probably a deal with the judge.
[–]Lamb-and-Lamia [score hidden]  (0 children)
If you want an example of how the law itself, I mean even just the basic concept of "law", is inherently batshit crazy, take a class in Family Law. Or read up on it.
When I took Family Law I remember being just dumbfounded by how hopeless some problems were. Its just unmanageable. Partly because of the problems that are fixable. But partly because of the fact that the idea of a code that can be applied by an objective third party to any situation in front of it is just absurd. And family problems: child support, divorce, custody, visitation. It just becomes a shit show.
[–]Nathan346 [score hidden]  (0 children)
Unless it's a woman. Then she gets a check for herself and the kid. And goverment food as well as housing.
[–]kriegercontainers [score hidden]  (6 children)
I don't think you understand why people who fail to pay child support are jailed in the first place. It isn't that they don't have a job or are not making money. It is that they are evading payment.
For example, they have all canceled their bank accounts and cash any checks they receive at a check cashing place. They receive the money and then refuse to pay anything. Whether you like the guy or not he is a father of 7 children and doesn't pay child support. He probably does everything he can to hide from law enforcement as well because he knows exactly what he's doing.
[–]Cornbread916 [score hidden]  (1 child)
What if he is just poor...you cannot hide your payroll from the state. They can and will garnish you. Most poor people do not have a bank account. The reality is you will get jailed regardless if it is a matter of being poor and not being able to afford it or just evading payment. A lot of the times it's evading but you still have to account for the potential of just being poor asf.
[–]Velshtein [score hidden]  (0 children)
If he's poor then he shouldn't have had 7 kids.
Secondly, they set the payments based on your wages. If it's tough to make the payments that's his fault for not using a condom.
[–]Abandon_The_Thread_ [score hidden]  (0 children)
That's a whooooole lot of severely broadstroked accusations and assumptions you're making towards anybody who's missed child support payments.... Prettyyyyy arrogant in my opinion.
[–]digitalmofo [score hidden]  (1 child)
Well that's just not true.
[–]Thedurtysanchez [score hidden]  (0 children)
Yes it is.
Source: Divorce lawyer.
[–]Bagellord [score hidden]  (2 children)
Isn't it supposed to be for parents who have just shucked the responsibility for a long time? They don't jail (or at least aren't supposed to) for missing one or two payments.
[–]digitalmofo [score hidden]  (1 child)
In Virginia, you have 45 days from the time you make a payment to make the next. Day 46, you're in court, age you'd better have a good reason. The 27 times I sat through court watching cases, being in the hospital or getting laid off is not a good reason.
[–]ezaspie03 [score hidden]  (0 children)
So your saying this guy has a valid reason to miss his next payment anything short of dead might not cut it.
[–]gronke [score hidden]  (0 children)
It's called a "Debtor's Prison" for a reason, folks!
[–]Otter_Actual [score hidden]  (2 children)
or how about no child support
[–]Velshtein [score hidden]  (1 child)
Great idea! Have 7 kids then shirk all responsibility off onto the woman and the taxpayers who will inevitably be picking up the tab.
[–]Otter_Actual [score hidden]  (0 children)
so, its falls to the man? She cant get a damn job
[–]omnicidial [score hidden]  (10 children)
Seeing how the child support services people here refuse to follow the law, tbh you don't even know what the hell is really going on in that case.
I am currently being required to drive 120 miles to court august 5th to pay a balance of $0 in arrears and Current (I owe no dollars to them at all) and they just informed me that even thought I was in their office in March asking what to do, then again in April they're telling me they had a court date on April 1st they never told me about where they set summary judgement for back child support that was specifically outlined in the divorce wouldn't be done. The original subpoena was for arrears of 350 dollars and the balance is now $0 and they fully know that. My case worker said specifically they'd not require me to come with a $0 balance and they're doing it anyway.
When told they'd messed it all up, they doctored new paperwork and subpoenaed me again rather than admit they didn't do their job.
I haven't gotten 1 person from there yet to tell me my balance or what they wanted me to bring to court or come to court for in the last 2 weeks of asking and I'm about to file the 2nd complaint with the state of TN.
The last person I asked for that information was the district attorney of cookeville tn, Bryant Dunaway, who is literally refusing to follow the law.
No telling why that man was there other than someone wanted to put him there, then the people they hired badly murdered him.
[–]Cigar_Lounger [score hidden]  (2 children)
One of hundreds of stories like this I've heard. Craziness.
[–]vertigo1083 [score hidden]  (1 child)
I was in Cumberland County Jail in New Jersey for a brief few days not very long ago.
There was a younger thuggish kid in there. Yeah, he was a little mouthy. Maybe 17 or 18 years old. Looked the part of a hood rat. But otherwise he was 5'2", maybe 100 pounds, and just a kid.
The CO in charge called the "turtle squad" or the "goons" on him. Basically guys that are paid to be on standby to hop into tactical/riot gear at a moments notice to deal with any unruly inmates. Complete with batons, pepper spray, biker helmets, the whole 9. (I came to figure out the helmets are so that you can't identify them singularly when shit goes wrong).
They beat that boy. They dragged him into a space around the corner and out of sight. They beat him without mercy. All we heard were sounds like crack, splat, and his screams.
They killed him. They walked back around the corner and called the medical unit. He was DOA.
I immediately made a phone call, and got bailed the fuck out within hours instead of just waiting a few days for court to be let go.
It never even made the papers.
[–]CE3K [score hidden]  (0 children)
This needs to be pursued if it's true. Where the fuck are the reddit witch hunts when we need them? Did you not investigate further like who was on staff or responsible?
[–]Lawja_Laphi [score hidden]  (0 children)
That's absurd. Sorry to hear. I had a similar story. I was paying off arrears that were just assigned to me at the beginning, plus my monthly support payments. When I finally paid off the balance on the court decision, the township sent a letter to my work, basically reinstating the original amount. (Didn't take into account that I paid off the arrears.) Took me weeks off phone calls, and impromptu pop-ins to finally get an answer. Luckily, I could scrape by and afford it during that period. But if not, I could have had a warrant issued for me. It's not always just dead-beat dads trying to get away with bullshit...
[–]Skier_D00d [score hidden]  (1 child)
Man what the fuck
[–]Apfelwein [score hidden]  (0 children)
News Flash: you're going to jail son. Don't make plans for the next 10 years or so
[–]paletooth [score hidden]  (0 children)
Tennessee's laws are a fucking trainwreck. i'm so sorry, dude. i would say that i hope you get it sorted out but it's really just luck whether or not you do. shit is ridiculous.
[–]Distortionizm [score hidden]  (0 children)
All you had to say was Tennessee.
[–]flynnsanity3 [score hidden]  (0 children)
My father went through something similar when he divorced my mother. The most fucked up part of it was that it was a relatively clean break up, as far as divorces go. Many times, the error, it seems, lies solely in the court and their inability to use the bureaucracy.
[–]bob_q [score hidden]  (0 children)
That's besides the point. The man could have been a recidivist murderer, the point is that he was condemned to go to jail. He was not condemned to be raped by other inmates. He was not condemned to be beaten up by wardens. He was not condemned to the death penalty.
The first step is to recognize that all these exactions are extra-judicial and are therefore not part of any legit punishment. It doesn't matter if by some good luck they turn out to happen to someone bad, or if by some bad luck they turn out to happen to somebody nice.
[–]tigerscomeatnight 43 points44 points45 points  (2 children)
I see debtors prison has not yet been abolished, some revolution.
[–]jc10189 [score hidden]  (3 children)
It's ridiculous to put people in jail for menial crimes like child support and drug possession. Consensual crimes like drugs and prostitution should be decriminalized. Of course selling drugs is one thing but possession is another.
[–]sonofamunchkin [score hidden]  (1 child)
Not supporting your child shouldn't be categorized along with drug possession and prostitution. You can make the "I'm not hurting anyone so leave me be" argument for the latter two however not for the first one. With the being said it still seems counterproductive to lock someone up for being unable to pay since they can't make money to pay while in jail.
[–]jc10189 [score hidden]  (0 children)
Well I agree locking people up for debt is ridiculous. Even if you owe money to the court and can prove you can't pay they will lock you up. But I think consensual crimes should be decriminalized anyway.
[–]socoamaretto [score hidden]  (0 children)
Hm how do we punish him? I know, let's lock him in a cage for a while!
[–]asforus [score hidden]  (0 children)
Yeah, that will help him get a job to pay child support!
[–]chowchan [score hidden]  (0 children)
and you get a slap on the wrist if you promote extremism. jail is a joke. if no one loses whatever profit, you get a slap on the wrist.
[–]MadafakerJones [score hidden]  (0 children)
I wish human rights advocates would protest for this failure* to* pay* of child support for being inhumane. Separating parent to child just because you don't have money is just a trap for people 'to go call the cops on his bitch ass'
[–]Lebrominate23 [score hidden]  (0 children)
What is the better alternative? Youe have fathers of 7 children with 4 women and they dont want to pay a penny towards their child.
How is that fair for the child and mother? What do you suggest to ensure these children arent abandoned by their fathers?
[–]davidwinnipeg [score hidden]  (0 children)
Robinson, a father of seven, was arrested on April 1 on a 2008 warrant for failing to pay child support.
That's a lot of child support.
[–]HoundDogs [score hidden]  (0 children)
It's his privilege.
[–]TheCryptoAnarchist [score hidden]  (0 children)
So he died because the government is now the sugar-daddy to millions of single mother parasites. It was his privilege.
[–]Lord_Dreadlow [score hidden]  (5 children)
He had seven kids and probably seven different baby mommas.
That's a hell of a lot of child support to pay.
[–][deleted]  (4 children)
[removed]
    [–]Hook3d [score hidden]  (31 children)
    What other incentive do you propose to get deadbeat parents to pay child support besides the incentive of avoiding jail time?
    [–]CTV49 [score hidden]  (2 children)
    Umm, garnish their wages. Also, if the individual is receiving state/federal support (welfare), reduce the amount they receive by the amount of child support owed. If the individual does not have a job, and receives no state/federal support then they clearly can't pay anyway. Jail certainly won't fix that.
    [–]Hook3d [score hidden]  (1 child)
    I'm getting paid under the table, or I am self employed and cash all my checks. What then do you garnish?
    [–]fyberoptyk [score hidden]  (0 children)
    The real question you keep dodging is "How do you use legislation to force people to take care of their kids?"
    And the answer is "You can't, it's not possible". And putting them in jail isn't going to feed those kids either.
    You can't legislate morality.
    [–]eats_shoots_and_pees [score hidden]  (13 children)
    It is basically acting as a debtors prison, which is against the law in the U.S. Also, the Supreme Court ruled that judges can't send people to jail for not being able to pay court fees. Yet here we are doing just that.
    [–]fullbaker [score hidden]  (6 children)
    Child support and court fees are not the same thing. Also I would venture to guess the court exhausted several other less severe remedies before placing him in jail.
    [–]Bonsai_Newbie [score hidden]  (2 children)
    Doesn't the court get a potion of the child support every payment?
    [–]jc10189 [score hidden]  (0 children)
    No child support payments aren't taxed. They may impose fees for having to intervene but that's about the extent of that.
    [–]Hook3d [score hidden]  (2 children)
    Nah guys on reddit love playing the victim. And we all know who is the real victim of failing to pay child support: the deadbeat parent, not the unsupported child.
    [–]GunnerBulldog [score hidden]  (1 child)
    When the "deadbeat parent" gets put into jail and then strangled to death by a corrections officer most people who aren't total sociopaths are gonna empathize with him
    [–]Hook3d [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Yeah this is one guy, people abandoning their children to their fate is epidemic. You really want to give all deadbeat parents a pass on jail because of this one psychopathic jailer?
    [–]wickedzeus [score hidden]  (0 children)
    I guess it all depends on how you define the term, but it is completely legal to jail people for failing to pay fees or fines.
    [–]apples_apples_apples [score hidden]  (4 children)
    Is child support "court fees" though?
    [–]applebottomdude [score hidden]  (3 children)
    It's both money owed. How would it be different?
    [–]Hook3d [score hidden]  (2 children)
    Because one is used to pay for food and housing for a child? Do you think abandonment should be a crime? Because that is what people who don't pay child support are doing. Abandoning their children.
    [–]applebottomdude [score hidden]  (1 child)
    I doubt the avg person not laying is a rich person walking out of a Porsche dealer saying "fuck you kiddo". Is there a reason you seem to have opinions flying in the face of data?
    [–]Hook3d [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Data? Where the fuck is your data?
    [–]Rindan [score hidden]  (7 children)
    Just garnish wages and force community service if you must. We have the highest prison population in the world both in terms of raw number and per capita. Maybe when you have a higher prison population than an authoritarian dictatorship, but still have violence levels will above most other industrial democracies that is your subtle hint that it isn't working?
    Tossing someone into crime college and then making it so that they can't get a job because they have a prison record is the stupidest and most counter productive way of reducing recidivism I can imagine.
    [–]Hook3d [score hidden]  (6 children)
    And if a parent willingly gets paid under the table or doesnt work so there is nothing to garnish?
    I'm glad you geniuses have it all figured out.
    [–]Das_Orakel_vom_Berge [score hidden]  (3 children)
    You might note that there was a second part to the suggestion.
    [–]Hook3d [score hidden]  (2 children)
    Ah community service. That will really put food into the deadbeat's kid's stomach.
    [–]Das_Orakel_vom_Berge [score hidden]  (1 child)
    Just as much as jail would.
    [–]Hook3d [score hidden]  (0 children)
    So we agree that some punitive measure must be enacted? Well a short jail stint is probably more effective than a few hours a week at the local animal shelter.
    [–]Yertoo [score hidden]  (1 child)
    What's wrong with trying something like garnishing wages first? Sure, if they out and out refuse to pay and avoid it by doing things like getting paid under the table then maybe using the threat of jail might be the only alternative.
    But why are you so (seemingly) angry that people think there should be an alternative to jailing these people right off the bat?
    [–]Hook3d [score hidden]  (0 children)
    How do you know this guy was jailed "off the bat"? Nice conjecture.
    Most deadbeat parents never see the inside of a jail cell FYI.
    [–]cashed [score hidden]  (5 children)
    What other incentive do you propose to get deadbeat renters to pay rent besides the incentive of avoiding jail time?
    What other incentive do you propose to get deadbeat car leasees to pay car payments besides the incentive of avoiding jail time?
    What other incentive do you propose to get deadbeat cardholders to pay credit card balances besides the incentive of avoiding jail time?
    What other incentive do you propose to get deadbeat hospital patients to pay medical bills besides the incentive of avoiding jail time?
    Do the rest of these seem insane to you?
    If so, maybe you should reevaluate your own question.
    [–]Hook3d [score hidden]  (3 children)
    Cars can be repossessed, renters can be evicted, and hospitals take it on the nose all the time? Your examples are retarded.
    [–]Deweyrob2 [score hidden]  (2 children)
    And wages/tax refunds can be garnished.
    [–]Hook3d [score hidden]  (1 child)
    Cool and people who mooch off their relatives, or get paid under the table? Watcha gonna garnish then?
    This thread is full of legal geniuses.
    [–]Deweyrob2 [score hidden]  (0 children)
    So not being able to hold a legit job for the rest of your life isn't an incentive? Are you having a bad day?
    [–]GonzoVeritas 668 points669 points670 points  (71 children)
    Failure to pay child support.
    History of manic depression.
    Sentence: Death.
    [–]BitcoinBoo [score hidden]  (0 children)
    in a prison filled with CO's that are not state employees (private contractors) and not trained properly.
    [–]kasfinally 160 points161 points162 points  (55 children)
    That's what I'm saying. The system is whack for men. Depression for men is laughed at. This whole story is depressing.
    [–]hoodatninja [score hidden]  (1 child)
    Wait what? A lot of things are gendered, but pretty sure depression is seen as a universal issue
    [–]Shamwow22 [score hidden]  (34 children)
    I've known both men, and women who have depression and/or physical disabilities. People are cruel to both of them.
    [–]Goldreaver [score hidden]  (24 children)
    Have you tried not being depressed?
    [–]Shamwow22 [score hidden]  (19 children)
    Hold on, let me try it:
    (>_<) hnnnngh.
    ...nope. I just soiled myself, and that made me feel even more depressed. Sorry.
    [–]Goldreaver [score hidden]  (15 children)
    It is a common meme about the usual 'solutions' people put up to a problem they don't perceive as a real or serious.
    I used to have a screenshot about an article into depression cures and the first one, no joke, was 'Laugh it up'
    [–]cityofcharlotte [score hidden]  (13 children)
    I mean, I'm currently depressed going through a separation. I just tried to laugh, but it made me feel like a psychopath laughing maniacally for no reason. Maybe I'll watch something funny later--any suggestions? I've got cable and Netflix.
    [–]ClearlyChrist [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Bo Burnham has a new comedy special called "Make Happy". It's genius, hilarious, and completely relatable to someone with depression and/or anxiety. I would highly recommend it.
    [–]MaxMan8998 [score hidden]  (0 children)
    John Mulaney is hilarious. And the humor isn't depressing or anything. His stand up is in Netflix. Hope it helps you feel better!
    [–]Wolfy_Jaeger [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Lots of people think the movie Airplane! is quite funny.
    [–]lightninhopkins [score hidden]  (1 child)
    I've got amyl nitrate and lubricants.....
    [–]deanreevesii [score hidden]  (0 children)
    We don't talk about that...
    [–]Goldreaver [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Groundhog Day is one of my favorite moves overall. If that doesn't strike your fancy, or you've already seen them, I enjoy the absurd of Will Ferrell in Talladega Nights or the Anchorman.
    Oh, and Happy Gilmore!
    [–]EDGE515 [score hidden]  (1 child)
    Go watch Bill Burr. He'll definitely get a few laughs out of you
    [–]OneLurkyFellow [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Feeling disconnected like that (or detached, or disassociated) is a normal defense mechanism the brain uses against stress, it does interfere with the good feelings as well. Since your stress is circumstantial instead of life-long depression, I wouldn't worry about it too much. A self-help book called "awaken the tiger" may be useful if you want to actively overcome this instead of waiting it out.
    [–]Bullstang [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Netflix has some good stand up comic shows. I listened to one the other day while cleaning my house - got productive while having a laugh! I know it's not gonna change your life but it's the little things.
    [–]pseudoromantic [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Bojack Horseman? You'll probably ended up crying instead but it's a good release and vehicle to confront your own issue.
    [–]malmac [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Yeah, don't hide away, even though you really want to. Try to remember the painful times and not just the good. Throw yourself into your work and hobbies. Pick up some new hobbies. Rearrange your life the way you always wanted. Reconnect with an old friend.
    I know you said seperation, not final, and perhaps you will pull the relationship together. Or not. It's been my experience that a separation usually indicates that one partner has lost interest and it's just a matter of time. And speaking of time, that is your friend. Time will heal you but you can make things better by keeping busy and connected with life.
    Twice betrayed, twice divorced. Been there done that.
    [–]AFewStupidQuestions [score hidden]  (0 children)
    I'm not sure of the exact context for the article, but in the nursing home I used to work at we used laughter therapy on the memory ward and anecdotally it made a big difference in the mood of those residents. Wikipedia and Oxford seem to see some validity in it as well. Keep in mind this is in a group setting being led by a trained professional.
    A handful of small-scale scientific studies have indicated that Laughter Yoga may potentially have some medically beneficial effects, including benefits to cardiovascular health and mood.[4] Benefits to mood in depressed patients have been found to be as good as exercise therapy.[5] A study by Oxford University found that pain thresholds become "significantly higher" after laughter, compared to the control condition, and saw this as being due to laughter itself, rather than the mood of the subject. The study suggested that Laughter produced an "endorphin-mediated opiate effect" which could "play a crucial role in social bonding".[6]
    [–]Welshy123 [score hidden]  (0 children)
    You need to put your thumb in your mouth and blow really hard. That'll reinflate you if you're depressed.
    [–]TheMainTank [score hidden]  (0 children)
    cheer up now you've got poop to play with! it's like nature's play doh
    [–]cjorgensen [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Think about something that makes you happy!
    [–]muddypaws [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Yeah, why not just cheer up?
    [–]newloaf [score hidden]  (0 children)
    This man gets it! Have you thought of working in the mental health care field?
    [–]Squall_Meridian [score hidden]  (7 children)
    Women have support groups and "understanding". Men get laughed at and called weak, then lose standing. Why does standing matter? Because to keep the label that you're "normal" while dealing with, and hopefully recovering from, a down period is ok. But to be depressed and seek help gives you the label of "one of those guys". A weak man, or sad, or needing help, or whatever people perceive. And sure you can say that people should understand, seek help, go to friends, whatever. But the reality is, as people see you as less capable, you're needed less. As people see you as needing help, or less fun, they contact you less. Just enough to notice. It's a spiral. A man can go from happy and social to alone and weak feeling in just a few years, because as soon as you start accepting labels it's a slippery slope. So most men who feel normal learn to hide weakness to not lose standing. They never deal with a problem, and get hollow and indifferent.
    Not that it's a bed of roses for women, but generally speaking people "understand". Next topic is why people are more willing to understand weakness in women and the whole gender issue, but I bow out. As things are now, it's much easier for a man to slip through the cracks and disappear.
    [–]I_Hate_Disco [score hidden]  (0 children)
    It is due to negative traditional gender roles placed on men:
    One reason is the low priority given to men’s health issues in the research community. More funding and more specialists in this area will encourage ongoing research into male mental health.
    Male and societal attitudes have fostered the silence. “The women’s health movement was very self-directed,” says Dr. McCreary. “Women banded together to work on problems with health delivery. Men don’t want to do that. We have inculcated a culture in our society that men have to be tough, men have to be strong. Our society is very good at punishing gender deviation in men. Weakness is not considered to be masculine.”
    The “code” governing men’s behaviour is one of the prime barriers preventing men from seeking help. According to UK-based MaleHealth.com, men may feel it’s “weak and unmanly to admit to feelings of despair.” Because it’s easier for men to acknowledge physical symptoms, rather than emotional ones, their mental health problems can go undiagnosed.
    Beliefs about masculinity also encourage men’s general lack of interest in health issues; many men simply don’t believe they are susceptible to depression, so why bother learning about it? Similarly, risky behaviour, seen especially in younger men – including abuse of alcohol and/or drugs and violence – can mask their emotional problems, both from themselves and their physicians.
    Western society’s view of the value of men is seen as an important factor affecting men’s mental health. An Australian study suggested that “there is a strong element of negativity in our culture about men which cannot contribute to positive mental health…”.
    Greater recognition of the significance of men’s roles as fathers and partners would help men cope with the difficult feelings that accompany a breakup and the loss of full access to their children. The social isolation experienced by many men at such a time is believed to a factor in the high rate of suicide amongst divorced men.
    [–]ChummerLicious [score hidden]  (3 children)
    I don't know what circles you run in, but where I'm from seeking help is a sign of strength.
    [–]GodsSon58 [score hidden]  (0 children)
    You have a great circle then, my friend. I can agree that kind of stuff is seen as a weakness from my parts...and it's not right.
    [–]honorary_mexican [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Well at least you are still judging people.
    [–]kilimonian [score hidden]  (0 children)
    why people are more willing to understand weakness in women and the whole gender issue
    I'll put it this way: "weak men" are the exception to the male population while "strong women" are the exception to the female population. Men have a high bar of "putting up with shit" while women are expected to break when anything is thrown their way. It is less a "willingness to understand weak women", but more of an assumption that women are weak. Men, on the other hand, are expected to "just deal".
    Thus, it sucks for both genders to varying degrees depending on the topic at hand. Women lose out more on liberties/pursuit of happiness, men lose out more on health to the point of expected sacrifice.
    [–]RedditIsDumb4You [score hidden]  (0 children)
    It's still easier to be supported with depression then having to support for others (under penalty of law) while having depression.
    [–]Clumsy_canadian [score hidden]  (2 children)
    Pretty much sums it up. When I was kicking a fentanyl (50x-100x potent than heroin) habit and going thru withdrawals the depression is something I cannot even explain. Your mind works against you and between the mental struggle and physical withdrawal suicide becomes a viable option.
    Now that I've made a full recovery I'm looking into addictions counselling since I truly understand what people are going thru and feel I could actually help these people.
    [–]usuallyafakestory [score hidden]  (0 children)
    People need your help.
    [–]kasfinally [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Keep fighting the good fight brother. There are places for men who are struggling and are welcomed with open arms. I'm glad you chose to be the help! Thank you.
    I'm not sure where it was written that only women need hugs and to talk. Men feel too. Men should be able to express emotion and not have to keep the weight of their issues in their heart because they're afraid people will think he is less of a man.
    You're more of a man for seeing your fault and wanting to correct them for your self and loved ones.
    Blah.
    [–]juiceboxheero [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Why are you shoehorning gender inequality here? This is a story of police brutality.
    [–]osweetcarolina [score hidden]  (1 child)
    Let me guess...you're "Men's Rights" sexist Drumpf supporter?
    [–]kasfinally [score hidden]  (0 children)
    You're clearly an idiot. No debating that.
    But no, not at all. I'm just a man who has had many men in my life struggle in silence. Lots of father's lose their kids when they were hard working good men. Then they were shells of them selves.
    You can sit on your horse and judge. It's easy. Be the troll. Feels good I bet.
    [–]dubs2112 [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Yep, I got fired from a good job in a construction field because of my depression.
    [–]fortheloveofjorge [score hidden]  (10 children)
    One of the many reasons I refuse to have kids. I couldn't live with myself if some bitch took them away from me then demanded money while she maintained custody of my children, filling their heads with lies and half truths about their father.
    [–]PM_ME_DEAD_FASCISTS [score hidden]  (1 child)
    IMO living your life in fear of hypothetical situations is no way to live your life.
    [–]throwaiiay [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Hypothetically, you should live your life without fear, but I don't want to take that chance.
    [–]DeathsIntent96 [score hidden]  (1 child)
    I don't go outside in case I accidentally meet a serial killer.
    [–]Dr_Splitwigginton [score hidden]  (0 children)
    That's a smart move
    [–]Knappsterbot [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Goddamn you're paranoid dude. You're spending too much time on trp or something but that's not a normal thing and it's completely avoidable.
    [–]helpmesleep666 [score hidden]  (2 children)
    Maybe don't marry a crazy fucking bitch than?
    [–]LordyNordy [score hidden]  (1 child)
    than what?
    [–]jc10189 [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Living life with this fear based attitude keeps you from achieving full potential. Sometimes I fear drowning but I still go swimming.
    [–]NoMoreNicksLeft [score hidden]  (0 children)
    The solution is to not have them with a "bitch".
    You seem to be implying that you can't tell those apart from other women.
    [–]helpmesleep666 [score hidden]  (5 children)
    Sentence: Death.
    Dude the private jails are going to be PISSED they could have gotten a ton of funding to lock him up like an animal.
    [–]TigerMonarchy [score hidden]  (4 children)
    Seriously. When are they going to train their goons that they don't kill the profits? Just maim them. Like many other commercial farm operations.
    [–]helpmesleep666 [score hidden]  (2 children)
    Right? Don't kill your product just break it and let it live in fear.
    [–]TigerMonarchy [score hidden]  (1 child)
    It's about recurring revenue!! These goons are just not thinking strategically, I guess. #sarcasmdripping
    [–]helpmesleep666 [score hidden]  (0 children)
    That's why you ALWAYS explain how to manage the products before letting new employees loose. It's always just a shame when new employees destroy quality product... There's years of funding for each skull!
    [–]Sour_Badger [score hidden]  (0 children)
    No main either. That costs medical expenses. Risk of high medical cost is the number one rejection reason for people wanting in a private facility.
    [–]maxi7cs [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Meanwhile in Canada, a drunk driver killed someone and fled, and only got 5 months.
    [–]iamriot [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Assaulting a jailer.
    [–]jrob1235789 [score hidden]  (0 children)
    People with mental health issues are treated like shit by the criminal justice system.
    I worked in a parole office as an intern and I've heard some POs just dismiss their clients as crazy.
    It really depends on the PO. There are the POs who care deeply for their clients and the other POs who see their clients as worthless pieces of shit.
    Also, look up these names: Jamycheal Mitchell, Kelly Thomas, Samuel Harrell, Natasha McKenna, Darren Rainey, Michael Tyree.
    I have a mental illness, and frankly I'm sick and tired of society viewing us like hopeless burdens and mindless animals. We have potential and can do great things. This needs to stop.
    [–]carlito_mas [score hidden]  (0 children)
    not just execution, but painful death.
    An autopsy found his windpipe had been crushed, the hyoid bone supporting his tongue had been fractured, and the surrounding muscles had been hemorrhaging blood.
    [–]ey_boss [score hidden]  (0 children)
    +not being able to do what the officers needed him to do
    That's black people for you.
    [–]Glock1Omm [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Poor guy. He should be a national hero, not a dead criminal. Sick fucking liberal mentality.
    [–]vendettaatreides [score hidden]  (0 children)
    7 kids and a child support skipper. Good fucking riddance. Give the officer a medal.
    [–]Boshasaurus_Rex 169 points170 points171 points  (27 children)
    What the fuck?
    Why did the CO put him in the choke to begin with? Then the other CO pepper sprayed them both? This is ugly. Then the lie of omission by not even mentioning that he choked the inmate and the blatant lie of him charging at the CO?
    Man if it weren't for the video...
    [–]NotJustinTrottier [score hidden]  (3 children)
    DA has had this video for who knows how long and hasn't brought charges. That's worse than the police lying imo. This is why local activists should target these ineffective DA's for removal from office, that's going to be a key step in any justice reform.
    [–]newloaf [score hidden]  (2 children)
    The underlying problem is that the DA's Office, Police, Corrections and the judges are all on the same team. It's not an adversarial relationship.
    [–]usuallyafakestory [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Don't forget the local lawyers! They're on the team too!
    [–]league_of_fail [score hidden]  (0 children)
    It's not an adversarial relationship.
    It would be once the DA goes after a LEO; his days would be numbered.
    [–]gronke [score hidden]  (3 children)
    Man if it weren't for the video...
    That's the terrifying thing about all of this. Only in this age of cellphones and security cameras are we finally seeing all if the crimes that authority figures commit come to light. It makes you wonder if the small percentage of events out there get captured on camera, what sort of things happen that we don't ever see?
    [–]usuallyafakestory [score hidden]  (0 children)
    The most terrifying thing is that in this age of video evidence guys like this are still going unpunished.
    [–]boose22 [score hidden]  (1 child)
    You are insane.
    News covers these things every chance they get. Murders aren't being covered up by the thousands.
    [–]betteroffwith28 [score hidden]  (0 children)
    I don't know the exact amount, something is clear though, when it happen, the police try all it can to protect their cops, by all means.
    [–]Warphead [score hidden]  (0 children)
    If it wasn't for the video there would be no repercussions, just like with the video.
    [–]ShockingBlue42 39 points40 points41 points  (12 children)
    Shades of Sandra Bland, if they hadn't deleted her video then what would we have seen there?
    [–]ZiGZ72 [score hidden]  (11 children)
    A suicide
    [–]OwlSeeYouLater [score hidden]  (9 children)
    There is no reason that woman would have committed suicide.
    [–]boose22 [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Except that she had a history of such issues. Quit being silly.
    [–]JAmes1620 comment score below threshold[score hidden]  (7 children)
    wtf man! You really think the police hung a woman in her cell? That's so fucked up...
    [–]rondell_jones [score hidden]  (2 children)
    Well here you have a video of a CO strangling a man to death and everyone covering it up. Imagine how many similar instances happened where there were no video or the video was "lost"?
    [–]JAmes1620 [score hidden]  (1 child)
    Man, you should get every black person who lives there to move out of the town. The police are literally picking them up and killing them! why would people still stay there? Do they even know about this?
    [–]ShockingBlue42 [score hidden]  (2 children)
    You are right, it is fucked up. Considering all the other stuff they do on video, including this example, why wouldn't they do it?
    [–]JAmes1620 [score hidden]  (1 child)
    This actually explains a lot... If I believed the police were arresting and hanging people in jail because they were black, I would probably hate them too.
    [–]ShockingBlue42 [score hidden]  (0 children)
    You realize that you are commenting under a story about a cop cover-up of a choking murder in police custody? The irony and the ignorance are astounding.
    [–]JAmes1620 [score hidden]  (0 children)
    That's an unlawful intimidation technique. While it's fucked up and he should be punished, I highly doubt he intended to kill the person. What you're talking about is a group of officers who all walked into a woman's cell with an intent to kill and executed her.
    [–]ShockingBlue42 [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Too bad they deleted the video of it then, it makes it seem like they are hiding her murder by cop.
    [–]sharkinaround [score hidden]  (0 children)
    yeah pretty depressing to think about the countless times this has happened with no video
    [–]BitcoinBoo [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Private Prisons
    [–]Glock1Omm [score hidden]  (0 children)
    What I see in the video is a inmate fighting with a guard, the guard trying to get control. What the fuck are you seeing? Proof that we only see what we want to see. Only in this case, you are retarded.
    [–]Goldreaver [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Then the other CO pepper sprayed them both?
    Damn I can't see the video but... maybe he was trying to stop the other guy?
    [–]Spdrjay 252 points253 points254 points  (17 children)
    Somebody's angling for a heck of a lot of paid administrative leave.
    [–]starstarstar42 165 points166 points167 points  (13 children)
    "We will NOT tolerate this sort of behavior. He has been placed on desk duty with full pay plus overtime and will continue in that position for the next 6 months until he is fully exonerated, at which time we'll give him a bonus and destroy all the video evidence."
    [–]ThatsMyHoverboard 49 points50 points51 points  (4 children)
    "We held a full investigation. It turns out he's clean and the evidence is fake."
    [–]starstarstar42 37 points38 points39 points  (3 children)
    "Crack was sprinkled liberally onto the victim per departmental procedures. We consider this case closed."
    [–]hypnotiq180 [score hidden]  (0 children)
    "Open and shut case, Johnson."
    [–]THETEH 24 points25 points26 points  (0 children)
    "The officer shrugged and mumbled something about feeling vaguely threatened, so we assumed he was totally in the right and the victim deserved it"
    [–]newloaf [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Desk duty?! After committing murder I would expect some paid time off. Can you imagine the stress that officer must be under?
    [–]not_a_gov_employee [score hidden]  (3 children)
    One word.
    Unions.
    This happens in most union jobs. ( in Construction) If my guys fuck up big they too go on leave they don't get fired unless it's like the 10th time.
    [–]betaruga [score hidden]  (1 child)
    So this is the kind of union where they earned the right to murder without consequence?
    [–]not_a_gov_employee [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Well it's not murder until it's proven. When it's proven that they are guilty they will probably be fired. But until then they follow the same rules everyone else does.
    [–]StrayMoggie [score hidden]  (0 children)
    I loved working for a Union when I was 18-19. I came in late every day for work. After shift, I'd be taken into the manager's office to be yelled at. The Union rep would sit there and say "He won't be late any longer." Rinse. Repeat the next day. They did punish me by moving me to a nicer area that I had to use more of my brain. I was eventually punished more by having to learn every one else's job to fill in for sick calls and vacations. When not filling in, I was doing fun stuff like repairing boxes and tracking down people's addresses. I only quit because I hated having to get up at 1-2am to go to work.
    [–]TheonsPrideinaBox 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
    I would assume sarcasm but I feel you are likely right. Is there another planet us sane people can move to?
    [–]Rindan [score hidden]  (0 children)
    You can move to almost any wealthy Western democracy. Law enforcement bring immune to laws is an American thing, not an inevitability.
    [–]TigerMonarchy [score hidden]  (0 children)
    I wonder about how to terraform weed on a planet where sanity would be. I'd help build that colony. XD
    [–]betaruga [score hidden]  (0 children)
    It's sickening that officers can just straight up murder a person in cold blood and it's not treated as murder. Hopefully it being on video will bring more consequence than a slap on the wrist but what the fuck
    [–]BitcoinBoo [score hidden]  (0 children)
    well, when you run out of vacation time, there's only one option.
    [–]iBleeedorange 210 points211 points212 points  (11 children)
    The county’s district attorney, Jason Hicks, has yet to bring charges against the officer for the April 4 incident, according to attorney Spencer Bryan, who represents Robinson’s family.
    AT LEAST FUCKING CHARGE HIM
    [–]terraorbem 86 points87 points88 points  (7 children)
    No, they first have to determine which charges have the lowest chance of actually sticking, and those'll be the charges brought forward.
    [–]AlwaysABride [score hidden]  (2 children)
    Actually, I think we're supposed to take to a grand jury and bring forward a really weak case, aren't we?
    [–]NotJustinTrottier [score hidden]  (1 child)
    The saying goes that a DA could get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. Yet never the whole pig.
    [–]barbedvelvet [score hidden]  (0 children)
    And then the ham sandwich is acquitted.
    [–]louiegumba [score hidden]  (0 children)
    That's an amazing point. They charge him with vehicular manslaughter and he gets off because he wasn't driving at the time he strangled someone to death
    [–]workingtimeaccount [score hidden]  (0 children)
    Attempted double murder suicide treasoning.
    [–][deleted]  (1 child)
    [deleted]
      [–]applebottomdude [score hidden]  (0 children)
      Nah. Gotta wait for the heat to blow over and they can let him off.
      [–]boose22 [score hidden]  (0 children)
      Yeah charge him hastily with stupid charges so he can get off like the Freddie grey guys.
      [–]ketchy_shuby [score hidden]  (0 children)
      The video is making it difficult for them to contrive a narrative. Give them time to spin it.
      [–]photonrain 28 points29 points30 points  (1 child)
      He had him in the final adjustment of the hold at about 52 seconds of the video and he was out about 12 seconds later. It seems impossible to me they didn't notice the difference between someone fighting and struggling to breathe and someone who was unconscious for the next 39 seconds of that hold.
      [–]dkey1983 [score hidden]  (0 children)
      I'm not defending the actions, per se. I'd imagine, the average poorly trained prison guard does not have the necessary situational awareness to know when to apply force and when to back off of that force. I'm sure once he had the prisoner in the chokehold, his adrenaline was probably through the roof and he was busy talking to the other guards about how to secure the prisoner and totally forgot to consider the dangers of a chokehold when applied for too long. These guards probably don't even have basic CPR training, afterall. No way he's considering the chance of killing the guy.
      [–]GenitalDiddler 139 points140 points141 points  (13 children)
      One of my cousins had a friend who was a prison gaurd (Texas). After a few beers he mentioned guards beating inmates for no reason. I asked him a few questions (assuming he was against it). His response was "are you serious? These are thieves abd murderers" That doesn't give anyone the right to beat the shit out of them for no reason. The state already ordered their punishmrnt. After that conversation and how defensive he became I realized it's a power fetish and is probably a systematic problem.
      Edit: typo in quote. What it was previously has been quoted below.
      [–]terraorbem [score hidden]  (2 children)
      If you post job ads for corrections functions, you're inevitably going to attract people who like to exercise power over others for the sake of having power over others.
      Politicians have the same problem.
      [–]betaruga [score hidden]  (0 children)
      Yep. Those jobs protect criminals victimizing civilians and inmates. "As long as you're a cop/CO, it's all gravy"
      [–]mudra311 [score hidden]  (4 children)
      His response was "are you serious? These we should protect thieves abd murderers"
      Yes because the only people who get sent to prison have to be thieves and murderers.
      [–]Kleptokrat [score hidden]  (0 children)
      Even if all of them were thiefs and murderers it wouldn't give the guards the right to beat them for no reason. Being a crimminal doesn't mean that that you loose all of your human rights.
      [–]plumpvirgin [score hidden]  (1 child)
      That's kind of irrelevant and something that we can't deduce from a two-sentence snippet that was posted anyway. Maybe they "only" beat the thieves and murderers and left the other inmates alone. Maybe he was a guard at a maximum-security prison that only had "bad" criminals in it like thieves and murderers (e.g., no people who didn't to pay child support).
      But that doesn't really matter. It isn't bad because there might be less severe criminals in the mix. It's bad because it's not OK to beat people. Period. Even if they are criminals.
      [–]mudra311 [score hidden]  (0 children)
      I see what your saying.
      The hyperbole this guy was using is exactly the damaging reduction that causes guards to be violent or people to be indifferent. "If you don't want to be in danger, don't commit crimes. It's really easy." Yes, and if you don't want to drown - learn to swim.
      [–]lavastorm [score hidden]  (0 children)
      Stanford prison experiment "How we went about testing these questions and what we found may astound you. Our planned two-week investigation into the psychology of prison life had to be ended after only six days because of what the situation was doing to the college students who participated. In only a few days, our guards became sadistic and our prisoners became depressed and showed signs of extreme stress. Please read the story of what happened and what it tells us about the nature of human nature."
      –Professor Philip G. Zimbardo
      [–]helpmesleep666 [score hidden]  (1 child)
      My only hope for people like that is they eventually get locked up too, and get to experience the soul crushing hell that is the american judicial and jail system.
      [–]NoMoreNicksLeft [score hidden]  (0 children)
      Actually, they are locked in a prison too. It's part of the job.
      The only difference is that they get to go home after 8 or 12 hours or whatever, and then abuse their families to vent the stress.
      Funny, huh?
      [–]betteroffwith28 [score hidden]  (0 children)
      yeah, it is like priests , the type of job attracts the wrong people.
      [–]tzatzikiVirus [score hidden]  (0 children)
      Yup. They get off on it. And guess what? Beating "bad people" are real crimes that never go punished.
      Golly gee, I wonder why the crime statistics skew towards people more likely to be beaten.
      [–]teapot112 22 points23 points24 points  (4 children)
      Throat fracture.... I shuddered imagining it...
      [–]burncenter [score hidden]  (2 children)
      The Hyoid bone is likely what fractured. It's the floating bone in your throat that rests on your larynx.
      [–]plurality [score hidden]  (0 children)
      It's extremely hard to fracture the hyoid bone. He likely cause the cartilagenous rings to collapse, causing airway obstruction.
      [–]Ximitar 65 points66 points67 points  (10 children)
      The Stanford Prison Experiment in practice.
      [–]bzsteele [score hidden]  (0 children)
      Short BBC documentary on The Stanford Prison experiment for those unfamiliar with the reference
      [–]ThatsMyHoverboard 10 points11 points12 points  (8 children)
      That always frightens me.
      [–]Ximitar 13 points14 points15 points  (6 children)
      It should.
      [–]muggojill 4 points5 points6 points  (5 children)
      what is it?
      [–]Wheres_The_Pepsi [score hidden]  (3 children)
      Experiment done at Stanford a few decades ago exploring the relationship between prisoners and guards. Basically, the final outcome of the experiment showed that guards seem to be willing to abuse prisoners simply out of boredom.
      [–]micromonas [score hidden]  (1 child)
      "A few years ago".... Actually it was 45 years ago
      [–]Wheres_The_Pepsi [score hidden]  (0 children)
      Meant to type decades, sorry
      [–]apples_apples_apples [score hidden]  (0 children)
      You're right, but just for clarification, the experiment was done in 1971. 45 years ago. You said "a few years ago", and I just didn't want anyone thinking this was done in 2012 or something.
      [–]Warphead [score hidden]  (0 children)
      Imagine living it.
      [–]Proximal13 [score hidden]  (7 children)
      This post is my fight breakdown for those of you who aren't familiar with grappling.
      Source: I am an avid grappler and compete pretty regularly.
      This jailer probably spent a small amount of time doing BJJ, but never made it to blue. It is hard to tell if the prisoner tries to take the guard down or if the guard just goes right into attack mode, but the guard grabbed a guillotine and got taken to the ground, he tries to hip up into mount but can't and loses the position. The prisoner takes side control. The prisoner did the correct thing and ended up on the correct side of the guard to defend the choke. In this position the prisoner could have even applied a Von Flue choke since the guard refused to give up his failed guillotine. The guard then manages to get back to his knees, while keeping his grips, and the prisoner goes into turtle. This is where it is basically game over. The guard first postures up and then bridges his back which puts a ton of pressure on the wind pipe. This is where we see the prisoner pass out and you see him begin to spasm, which is common when going unconscious. Once he is out, he transitions to a sprawl while maintaining control of the head. This is where we assume that he continued applying pressure to the choke. With even a small amount of training, the guard should have known the prisoner was out. There isn't much of an excuse to continue putting any pressure on the choke at this point, he could have maintained that position without the choke applied and still kept head control until the other guard had control of his arms.
      [–]never_gives_gold [score hidden]  (1 child)
      I ctrl+f'ed for "Von Flue", because this was my thought too. I'd bet that the guard just watches a bunch of MMA. He could've kept the prisoner controlled without the choke with a front headlock at the point where he came to turtle. But even giving him the benefit of a doubt, he should've let go when the prisoner went limp (and he still could've kept a front headlock without the choke if he was worried about him regaining consciousness).
      [–]Dr_Spaghetii [score hidden]  (3 children)
      spent a small amount of time doing blowjobs?
      [–]prancingElephant [score hidden]  (0 children)
      Brazilian jiu-jitsu
      [–]jups2709 [score hidden]  (0 children)
      BJJ Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
      [–]Dopplegangr1 [score hidden]  (0 children)
      Part of me wants to think that he couldn't possibly so stupid to accidentally choke someone to death. What does he think happens when you continue to choke someone after they are knocked out? I'm pretty sure he didn't do it on purpose though, being relatively calm and having other officers watching, so I have to assume he's an idiot and didn't know what he was doing. I hope he gets fired and goes to jail for some form of manslaughter, but I'm guessing they'll find he did nothing wrong.
      [–]dallasdude 16 points17 points18 points  (7 children)
      Arrested for unpaid child support, wow
      [–]31415927 [score hidden]  (6 children)
      I really thought the intention of prisons was to put people there that are a danger to society. How is a man not paying child support dangerous!?
      [–]k12573n [score hidden]  (1 child)
      I know, I thought "debtor's prison" was supposed to not be a thing any more.. I guess it's different when you're evading a debt rather than just unable to pay it. I am pretty critical of people who don't pay child support but I don't believe they deserve to be jailed or, in this case, choked to death.
      [–]digitalmofo [score hidden]  (0 children)
      Depends on who you owe.
      [–][deleted]  (1 child)
      [deleted]
        [–]31415927 [score hidden]  (0 children)
        When did we crank 'FULL RETARD' all the way to 11?
        [–]tzatzikiVirus [score hidden]  (0 children)
        People are forced to work in prisons.
        [–]lolmonger [score hidden]  (0 children)
        How is a man not paying child support dangerous!?
        Because if the State cannot completely supplant the institution of marriage and the economic role of the Father, it will not be able to totally annul the family as a social and economic unit that people have for stability and material security and the State's institutions of courts, schools, and social programs will not be supreme.
        [–]top_socalled_gear 10 points11 points12 points  (0 children)
        Corrections Officer
        The irony would be funny if a man hadn't lost his life
        [–]The_Scrapper 37 points38 points39 points  (13 children)
        It looks like either the CO panicked (for reasons not obvious to me) and slapped the choke on and just held on for dear life; or he had 3 months of BJJ classes and couldn't wait to have his moment of Gracie-style badassery.
        As for intent? Guillotine choke was applied with too much force. Generally, the guillotine is not considered that dangerous a move unless there is a big size difference between choke-er and choke-ee, and one or both are completely stupid. This definitely appears to be the case.
        You will never get a murder conviction for this in a million years, and manslaughter will be tricky if there is even an iota of question as to whether or not the dead man made a threatening move.
        (Manslaughter rests upon "criminal negligence." Which is a winnable case, here, but tricky.)
        [–]gromolko [score hidden]  (9 children)
        In my selfdefense class I was taught that a guillotine choke (as every chokehold and pressure on the neck) counts as attempt to kill.
        (Not sure if this is correct, but I remember that the overextension of the neck in a guillotine choke makes it one of the more dangerous chokeholds that can easily damage the spine)
        [–]The_Scrapper [score hidden]  (1 child)
        That's kind of silly. I can choke you unconscious without killing you; and there are many scenarios where that may be the appropriate response.
        And the guillotine is no more intrinsically dangerous than any other choke. None of them are pleasant.
        [–]gromolko [score hidden]  (0 children)
        Probably more a if-someone-tries-to-choke-you-out-treat-it-as-an-attempt-on-your-life thing than saying you can't choke someone without killing him.
        [–]jasonp61 [score hidden]  (0 children)
        no single "move" is considered an attempt to kill, context has everything to do with it.
        [–]JaXXXuP [score hidden]  (5 children)
        TIL: Every MMA fighter should be charged with attempted murder.
        [–]gromolko [score hidden]  (0 children)
        If they don't react to a judge breaking off the fight or the opponent tapping out or going limp, that seems reasonable to me.
        [–]applebottomdude [score hidden]  (0 children)
        Don't be a dumbfuck
        [–]C-hound [score hidden]  (0 children)
        That's what paperwork is for
        [–]Rindan [score hidden]  (0 children)
        I mean yes, they are trying to kill the other guy. If the referee wasn't there and the fighter doing the choke didn't feel like stopping, they are a few tens of seconds from killing when a fight ends in a knock out by choking.
        Passing out isn't a good thing. If something knocks you out in a fight, you just took a horrific amount of damage. Your body shuts down during a fight only as an absolute last resort to buy you just a few more seconds to live in the hope of something changing and driving off your attacker.
        Choking someone out is serious business. You are walking someone up to the edge of death. More than one kinkster has found this out the hard way when they accidentally kill a lover by holding a consensual choke too long.
        [–]UpperCaseRock [score hidden]  (1 child)
        so what will be the charge..?
        [–]The_Scrapper [score hidden]  (0 children)
        Manslaughter, if anything. They may be able to make a "culpably negligent" claim due to the complete failure of the CO to properly restrain the victim. There is a reasonable expectation that a CO should be able to restrain a prisoner without killing said prisoner.
        if there is a question of the CO's actual danger, he may be able to claim extraordinary circumstances, though. He is allowed to defend himself if he fears death or serious injury.
        [–]CheesewithWhine [score hidden]  (0 children)
        As much as I am saddened and outraged by this story, I am even more saddened and outraged at the millions of Americans that enabled this to happen because they hold the "tough on crime, prisoners are scum, treat them as horribly as you can, they deserve it" mentality, and vote for the politician that promises to be as "tough" as possible.
        [–]cboogie [score hidden]  (0 children)
        Is it just me or titling a room the "Dirty Bullpen" kind of set a tone to potentially treat inmates as less than human?
        [–]camer0 [score hidden]  (1 child)
        Separate from this sad story of a needless death, America has a tremendous problem of unfit parents having more children than they can afford to support.
        [–]Punkdandp [score hidden]  (0 children)
        Sounds relevent
        [–]herbzilla 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
        officer or overseer?
        [–]GeekFurious [score hidden]  (1 child)
        Alright... so now for the reasonable reaction:
        The prisoner had been combative and so these men went in to secure him expecting him to become combative. The situation was amped up by the prisoner. However, the untrained civilian who killed the man, without question, made a mistake that caused the prisoner's death. Therefor, there is absolutely no reason why he shouldn't be brought up on charges (likely for manslaughter)... and since the grand jury is still working the case, that may still happen.
        [–]Pantaleon26 [score hidden]  (0 children)
        Thanks for defusing my rage. Honestly. It's so easy to forget there's two sides to every story
        [–]FNGinCO 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
        Oklahoma, stop trying to catch up to Louisiana. Angola Prison laughs at your petty attempts at torture.
        [–]syncroblackz [score hidden]  (1 child)
        Piece of shit. How the fuck do you not know choking someone for a minute is probably excessive and lethal.
        [–]madhate969 [score hidden]  (0 children)
        It's not a person it's a convict, or prisoner, and thus less than human. Cops don't hurt people, only criminals How ever could they people if we deny them the " certain inalienable rights"
        [–]TunaThePanda [score hidden]  (0 children)
        Our founding fathers outlawed debtors prisons. That was supposed to be an American principle. Goddamn it...
        [–]worldnews_is_shit [score hidden]  (0 children)
        Enough is enough, we have to deport policemen, they are incompatible with western culture.
        [–]zetaphi938 [score hidden]  (0 children)
        As someone from Oklahoma, not surprised.
        [–]SomeoneNorwegian [score hidden]  (0 children)
        America seems like a great country and all, but I would never, ever dare visit it.
        [–]Gangster_Family 5 points6 points7 points  (1 child)
        officer is probably looking for a raise tbh
        [–]rec_ct7 [score hidden]  (0 children)
        Or he ran out of vacation days this year so he's fishing for more.
        [–]Sausages_Rule 5 points6 points7 points  (1 child)
        Do more people die in contact with authorities when they meet them or when they don't meet them?
        I'm finding it hard to keep up.
        [–]houseQM [score hidden]  (0 children)
        Feels like the number is rising. It's been posted before, but don't call the police on someone who is having a mental breakdown or episode. The police are not trained to handle that in a diplomatic way and will use force as those people present a threat.
        [–]RushDefuse 5 points6 points7 points  (1 child)
        They should have just linked game 7 of the western conference finals
        [–]strangeattractors [score hidden]  (1 child)
        So why isn't video inside every jail open access? They always say that they forego privacy in jail, but they should also be assured reasonable safety. Who is auditing these places?
        [–]Another-Chance 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
        Probably afraid for his life, the rubber stamp used by government employees when they kill others.
        [–]DepressMode [score hidden]  (1 child)
        Why is everyone defending this dude? He attacked the guard and he was accidentally killed while the guards defending themselves. This is 100% the inmate's fault. This is like defending an intruder who gets shot breaking in.
        What was the guard's other option? Politely ask to stop being beaten?
        [–]Punkdandp [score hidden]  (0 children)
        I like how you think, sir.
        [–]dichenry [score hidden]  (3 children)
        Tearing up papers and writing on a floor do not deserve the death penalty. A man and woman choking a person to death for tearing up papers and writing on the floor deserves the death penalty.
        [–]dutchrudder7 [score hidden]  (4 children)
        That's a choke not a strangle.
        [–]All_Fallible [score hidden]  (2 children)
        What is the explicit difference if you don't mind me asking?
        [–]ShilTush [score hidden]  (2 children)
        This is seriously messed up. Some sort of extensive background check has to be put in place before hiring any sort of civil servant with an authoritative position.
        [–]sirthinker [score hidden]  (0 children)
        You guys need more Gavin Longs.
        [–]WiseApe [score hidden]  (0 children)
        Alec Baldwin in The Departed "TWO WEEKS, WITH PAY."
        [–]CausalError [score hidden]  (0 children)
        Aside from the many, many other terrible aspects of this case that the CO was so poorly trained as to crush a trachea when attempting a front choke like a guillotine is sad. It isn't hard to render someone unconscious without hurting them, it just takes training and practice in how to do it correctly.
        [–]Stan_Lees_Ghost [score hidden]  (0 children)
        "We have investigated ourselves, and found that we have done nothing wrong."
        [–]newloaf [score hidden]  (0 children)
        Corrections officers checked to see if the inmate was alive after the throttling, and even tried to revive him!
        I see multiple commendations in these people's future!
        [–]Oldmanedgar [score hidden]  (0 children)
        A "friend" of mine used to work at a prison. I found out from a mutual friend that he was encouraged to leave his job there after his supervisors were tipped off on an impending investigation.
        People, man... I guess the power got to his head.
        [–]Keith6700 [score hidden]  (0 children)
        April fools?...
        [–]vladhq [score hidden]  (1 child)
        The murderer, since he holds a job working for the government, gets to go on paid vacation (paid administrative leave) for murder! He might get charged at the end, but it's likely that this will be ruled an accident and he will still keep his job, charges dropped, of course. Until he chokes another inmate to death.
        [–]Oafah [score hidden]  (0 children)
        The inmate was sitting on the edge of a bench being handled by the officers in some fashion. He then stood up and put his weight on the left-most officer, who responded by trying to subdue him.
        I think it's incredibly sad that it resulted in his death, but the inmate was most definitely being non-compliant.
        If there is a problem with what happened, it's that the hold went on for about 30 to 45 seconds too long. Once the inmate had stopped moving and was non-responsive, it might've been a good idea to ease up.
        [–]velezaraptor [score hidden]  (0 children)
        What we need is a team of precognitive conception crime-stoppers. When a potential child support parent who is known to not make payments tries to have unprotected sex and use no other contraceptive, Tom Cruise and a swat team rope in from a heli and pop in the bedroom. Once you see Tom's face, and he starts talking to you, it's all over.
        [–]jms2906 [score hidden]  (1 child)
        April 4?! What the fuck has the DA been doing for almost 4 months?!
        [–]smuttypirate [score hidden]  (0 children)
        Anyone got an outside link to the vid that sure is cancer on my phone
        [–]MostlyCarbonite [score hidden]  (0 children)
        Welp, that's enough news for today.
        [–]Punkdandp [score hidden]  (0 children)
        What doesnt help is the poor quality of cctv cameras. Add to this the lack of audio in what appears to he a holding cell, and no one will actually know what happens.. other than speculating about whether or not the "lean" was percieved as a lunge.
        [–]Amanoo [score hidden]  (0 children)
        I don't think that guy understands the idea behind the American prison system. The idea isn't to kill prisoners, it's to take out vengeance in order to increase recidivism, thus making people who live off their gut feeling feel good while ensuring that the prisoners will eventually return to your prison for another crime. Dead inmates, on the other hand, don't make the prison a lot of money. Prisons are like businesses. Some are quite literally businesses while others are merely run like one. And it's not in a business' best interests to kill the people that make it money.
        More prisoners means more money. If you kill prisoners, you get less money. Simple as that. So don't kill your prisoners, just estrange them further from society to increase recidivism and therefore the amount of prisoners in your prison.
        [–]Beowulf85 [score hidden]  (0 children)
        I have two crushed teeth from a guillotine chokehold during a grappling tournament. It's a pretty horrifying experience to be locked into. Basic middle school wrestling techniques are very effective for LEO's, chokes are very dangerous and shouldn't be used in my opinion. My grappling coach saw a really fit wrestler die at a tournament once from a rear naked choke. He tapped out and walked to his team's bench. Sat down and died right there. The choke had collapsed his blood vessels in his throat. This was in a tournament setting, with refs, ems, etc. Don't play with chokes people!
        [–]McCourt [score hidden]  (0 children)
        "Smith then gets on his knees and grips Robinson’s neck with both hands in what is known as a guillotine chokehold."
        Um, no, that's not how you do a "guillotine choke."
        "The 2002 Army Combatives manual dictates that the fighter should first ensure that the enemy's head goes underneath one of his arms. The fighter wraps his arm around the enemy's head and under his neck. The fighter's palm should be facing his own chest. With the other hand, the fighter grasps the first hand, ensuring that he has not reached around the enemy's arm, and pulls upward with both hands. He now sits down and places the enemy within his guard, and finishes the choke by pulling with his arms and pushing with his legs."
        Both hands on the throat is commonly called a "Rape Choke".
        [–]Punkdandp [score hidden]  (0 children)
        I guess the spotlight is shying away from cops now... why not throw corrections officers into the mix.
        [–]AreJewOkay [score hidden]  (0 children)
        He should have never been in jail over child support. That's really a civil matter.
        The CO won't get convicted because he was attacked. He will say he feared for his life.
        [–]liveanddiebythevag [score hidden]  (0 children)
        Thats stone cold murder.
        [–]Zentaurion [score hidden]  (0 children)
        Did he death for more than a minute?
        [–]TyneyTymey [score hidden]  (0 children)
        SOP:
        • alive
        • arrested/incarcerated
        • dead
        the new rule entry "take no prisoners" seems to be home to roost
        [–]Thedurtysanchez [score hidden]  (0 children)
        The guy was apparently in jail for failing to pay child support. I have seen lot of comments in here regarding debtor's prison, the craziness of jailing someone over child support, etc. I want to clarify for people so they don't aim their pitchforks in the wrong places.
        When someone goes to jail for child support, they are actually charged with contempt of court for violating a court order. It requires the other party (parent receiving support) to "bring charges" if you will. Generally, lawyers and judges strongly advise AGAINST this tactic (because jailed people aren't working and therefore can't pay.)
        In my years of family law practice, I have never had a case require this tactic nor have I witnessed any in court. The instances where I have heard of this tactic being pursued, it is because the paying party makes plenty of money but refuses to pay or attempts to hide the money, with full intent of shafting the child/children. It is punishment for being a fuckhead, not for being poor or being unable to find work.
        And in more general child support info, if someone can't find work they are not required to pay child support. Child support is based on income, not made up numbers. If the paying party SHOULD be making money (proven opportunity and ability to earn a specific amount) they can be imputed income and forced to pay. But that only happens if there is a proven ability and opportunity to work and the paying party is simply shirking their responsibly. It is not subjective, it is objective.
        Source: Experienced family law attorney.
        [–]noisyboy [score hidden]  (0 children)
        I went to US few times and I enjoyed myself very much everytime. It is truly a magnificent country.
        However, I admit that every time I found myself near a police officer, I was stressed/scared even though I was not even remotely close to breaking any laws. What if the officer didn't like me/my face/ethnicity/whatever and decides to fuck up my life? Based on what I've been seeing/reading, it is entirely possible. Escalations happen in a second and before you know you could be lying dead at the sidewalk.
        I'm from a country where the police are widely despised for corruption and still I was never as scared as I was near American police. I would like to think I was just being paranoid due to Internet stories. But then I see videos of law enforcement brutality and suddenly the fear does not seem all that irrational.
        [–]Stokkolm [score hidden]  (0 children)
        At first I read it "stapling an inmate to death", that would have been even worse.
        [–]marktx [score hidden]  (0 children)
        At least he wasn't black
        [–]teastain [score hidden]  (0 children)
        As I understand it...they arrested him for depression...and then strangled him?
        [–]Top4King [score hidden]  (0 children)
        That woman wasn't much help. Maybe time to find a new job.
        [–]McCourt [score hidden]  (0 children)
        Just watched the video: yep, that's a murder.
        [–]LarrySoetoro [score hidden]  (0 children)
        Ive been in that jail and grew up in that town. What a shithole. I never considered it an overly racist community just because the racial makeup is weird. About 50% native Americans
        [–]jfreez [score hidden]  (0 children)
        And we're back Oklahoma. Back in the news for horrible shit again.
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