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DiscussionMy opponent just accidentally killed himself after playing Master of Evolution and summoning a Totem (self.hearthstone)

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[–]GoatsReaver -26ポイント-25ポイント  (22子コメント)

Pretty sure Darwin did.

[–]elveszett 47ポイント48ポイント  (20子コメント)

Not at all. Evolution just means change. Since evolution is random and has no purpose, a species may evolve negatively. What Darwin said is that natural selection filters those species, eliminating those who are not adapted enough.

[–]sitenuker 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

But evolution does not act on the organism but on the population. What's happening here is actually metamorphosis not evolution.

[–]rawrnnn 11ポイント12ポイント  (14子コメント)

Evolution isn't random, it's they differential selection of genes based on the only thing that has meaning in a meaningless universe: whether or not they work. Individual point mutations and new sexual pairings aren't guaranteed to produce better results, but over time they exhibit a strong statistical trend in that direction.

[–]elveszett 21ポイント22ポイント  (11子コメント)

Mutations are random. I don't know exactly what you mean when you say "whether or not they work": that they can be inherited or that they are apt to their environment?

[–]nucleartime 15ポイント16ポイント  (2子コメント)

He means whether they survive and reproduce. While the mutations that drive evolution are random, the entire process isn't.

[–]HMO_M001 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

So the card should be called "Mutation"?

[–]TheRuneKing 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not quite, not all evolutions are a form of biological mutation (misesnse mutation, nonsense mutation, etc...).

[–]Highfire 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

Definition of Evolution (Merriam-Webster):

biology : a theory that the differences between modern plants and animals are because of changes that happened by a natural process over a very long time

The "natural process" referred to in the definition would be mutations. Mutations of course are random. Evolution, however, filters through the mutations that are good and bad. "Good" and "bad" mutations are completely contextual, so your original point that natural selection eliminates those not adapted well enough stands.

However, a species is only going to evolve "negatively" (how do you define negative evolution?) when traits they develop over time are too specific for general survival, but not in the situation that they're in. An example is a cow bull that through artificial selection is descendent of more muscular and more muscular bulls, so much so that the mechanism for it to have sex now requires human help.

Since we're on a gaming subreddit, I'll refer to Dehaka.

[–]Imrankhan1212 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

The natural process being referenced is actually natural selection

[–]Highfire 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's right. Since we were heavily on the subject of mutations, I tried to keep it on that line, though.

Natural selection and mutations are intrinsically linked. Mutations drive change, natural selection filters through the change. Both are natural processes that define the differences between different organisms.

So, I do agree -- what was actually being referred was natural selection. However, mutations occurring over a very long time are also essential to evolution as we know it.

[–]elveszett 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Evolution is the whole event of old species changing into new species over time. Natural selection filters those species and thus makes evolution produce (generally) more adapted and competent species. In an utopic world where adaptation was not necessary, natural selection wouldn't exist but evolution would still do, giving birth to random species that could be better or worse.

To put it simple, Evolution means change, Mutation is one thing that can produce changes, and Natural selection is what rewards some changes and punishes others. To the whole entity we call it "Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection", and I think that's where people usually make a mistake thinking that "evolution" and "Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection" is the same.

Btw I don't think Merriam-Webster's definition says that the produced species are "better" than their progenitors.

[–]Highfire 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

You're talking about a situation where natural selection and evolution wouldn't occur, but it's hypothetical to the point of being incredibly improbable and potentially impossible.

The thing is, in this "utopic" world, just like on Earth, the inhabitants of said world will be contributors to selective pressures that guides evolution.

[–]elveszett 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I specified that adaptation is not necessary in that utopic world, so species would not compete with each other for anything. I know that utopic world is unrealistic, that's the point of being utopic.

[–]Highfire 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're making the point that only in an unrealistic situation would the differentiation be relevant.

In other words, what I said was absolutely sound. What exactly are you disagreeing with? Merriam-Webster's definition doesn't say that descendants are "better", no. But I never said or required that it did.

[–]Annyongman 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Idk evolution seems pretty random to me. You'd think Venonat would evolve into something like Butterfree but it evolves into Venomoth

[–]Teusku 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not that random. You'll always get a minion that costs 1 mana more.

[–]diego_tomato -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Evolution =/= mutation

[–]JambeardReborn -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

You're not describing evolution, you're describing mutation.

[–]elveszett 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nope. Mutation is only one cause. Evolution can occur by genetic drift or gene migration, for example.

[–]LuisGelati 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He really made us all stronger. What would we be without his contributions to science?