Submitted by BipolarBear0

/r/Fatlogic

98,132 HAES Advocates for 2 years!

Bad logic is a cornerstone of the internet. It can be found everywhere, from connect-the-dots conspiracy blogs to anti-vaccine, anti-GMO sites like NaturalNews. Even in arguments with online strangers over menial topics like video gaming, bad logic rears its ugly, fallacious head.

With the rise of a new movement, bad logic has taken a new, amorphous form. That movement is "Health At Every Size," or "HAES." It populates Tumblr blogs and local donut shops, with one core argument: "just because I'm fat doesn't mean I'm unhealthy."

As anyone with a PhD in not being an idiot knows, this is not true - being fat is being unhealthy. The concept of constantly carrying around 20, 30, 40, 50, or 100 extra pounds of weight; of constantly eating unhealthy foods and living a sedentary lifestyle; of eating to excess at every meal; all of this is unhealthy, and can lead to short and long-term health issues, like diabetes, arthritis, heart disease, stroke, sleep apnea, and even cancer.

But the HAES movement continues to grow, and continues to spread lack of personal responsibility, denial, and all-around bad logic to its many disciples who have decided that they would rather blame society for their problems rather than lose weight and become healthy again.

Is there a place that can combat this mentality?

Doctors can't - they're simply accused of "fat shaming" whenever they tell their patients they need to get in better shape. But perhaps there's a place where the overwhelmingly bad logic of HAES can be laid out on display, and torn down piece by piece to demonstrate just how ridiculous the whole thing is.

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That's where /r/fatlogic comes in (which unnecessarily got caught up in the hype of /r/fatpeoplehate's downfall, despite being nothing like the latter subreddit). In /r/fatlogic, you'll find a community of people - both casual users and former fatlogicians, healthy and overweight (but striving to lose it) - who have come together for one simple purpose: to combat, debunk, mock, and revel in the bad logic that comes pouring from blogs and rants across the internet.

Posts in /r/fatlogic are often divided into two categories: true fatlogic and sanity.

True fatlogic comes from HAES ideologues like Ragen Chastain, who do mental backflips and outright ignore the laws of thermodynamics to justify their unhealthy lifestyles. This post is a shining example of true fatlogic, where a Facebook commenter argues that "despite eating at a calorie deficit, [they] still can't lose weight." Or this post, which says "a spoonful of peanut butter before bed can help you burn more calories" (peanut butter is incredibly calorie-dense, and a tablespoon of peanut butter has 100 calories).

Sanity comes from people who are sane, whether they're people striving to lose weight or just people who have a solid grasp of logic. This sanity post compares fatlogic to academia, while this post demonstrates that thermodynamics do actually exist.

/r/fatlogic is a support subreddit, just like /r/loseit or /r/fitness. People making positive changes to their lives and personal health are encouraged, and given the tools they need to continue. But unlike /r/loseit or /r/fitness, which serve as more serious discussion subreddits, /r/fatlogic's tone is what makes it unique. It's okay to tackle serious issues with satire and heavy sarcasm, and /r/fatlogic does it best.

The mods were kind enough to grace us with some Q&A responses, which are included below.

Tell us a bit about yourselves.

QueenSkittlez Of the lady persuasion, nursing student, babymod of the team, engaged to a cool dude.

itsmyotherface Prefer to keep it vague. Female, weight-restored anorexic, work in a professional capacity. In the past, taught nutrition to children and low-income adults.

dainty_flower I'm a former fatlogician and fatty who lost the weight and kept it off more than 8 years now.

GetOffMyLawn_ I worked in IT for over 30 years and when I retired I missed being on the computer all day, and then I discovered reddit. I retired early due to long term disability. I had planned to retire early and start a second career but that’s off the table now.

tahlyn I am a 5'1" woman who used to have my own struggles with fatlogic: my metabolism was slow, I ate healthy and just couldn't fathom why I wasn't losing weight, but thank goodness I held it well!/s It dawned on me the day I was a hair short of 200 pounds - of I was ever going to lose the weight, get fit and enjoy the power and beauty of my youth the days in which to do so were limited. I did not want to wake up a little old lady full of regret I spent my life fat and unhappy. I lost the fatlogic and lost the weight... Which is why I'm here - I want to help educate others so they can accomplish the same.

Fletch71011 28 year old male and skinny shitlord. Self-employed. Reddit addict. Huge college football fan. Love video games. Big into weight lifting (when I can) -- I've been disabled with a back issue for about 17 months now.

bob_mcbob Male in my 30s. I gained a bunch of weight after high school and topped out at 400+ lbs. In 2012 I lost 185 lbs and have maintained most of the loss. Weight loss is a very personal subject to me. There is a lot of poor advice, weight loss myths, and general fatlogic, and it's is hard enough without this kind of misinformation. I will do everything possible to make sure others are given the best chance for their attempts to succeed.

maybesaydie I'm a grandmother who is interested in weight as it relates to health. I live in a very small town and am happily married. I was a teacher for a number of years.

How would you describe the community?

QueenSkittlez Most of the regulars are very supportive and lovely. I've learned a lot of stuff from people over sharing, and a common theme among our users is eating disorder recovery or weight loss after health problems. We're here for support and I've found plenty of help here myself.

itsmyotherface We semi-regularly do surveys on our community stats. As of our last survey: the majority is female by a slim margin. Most people here have been or are currently overweight. By and large, people are very supportive of one another, but don't tolerate bullshit. We have a higher incidence of individuals with or recovered from eating disorders than the general population.

dainty_flower We sincerely want to help people think critically about obesity and food culture in a bullshit-free, scientifically sound, and excuse-eradicating way. We hate bad ideas, and enjoy parsing them to their logical conclusion.

GetOffMyLawn_ On the whole most people are supportive. Many of us are overweight or have been overweight. We have a strict policy of no hate just because of weight. We do however have a major bias against stupidity and normalization of obesity, the latter of which is a disease state.

tahlyn Much the same as me - our surveys show they're predominantly former fat people who beat their own fatlogic.

Fletch71011 A large majority of the users here have battled their own weight-related demons in the past. We're also very heavily skewed female considering Reddit's average userbase. Most people think we skew younger males like the rest of Reddit but that doesn't seem to be the case. The girls definitely outnumber the guys.

bob_mcbob It's a great mix of people. We aren't specifically devoted to weight loss, but we have weekly stickies about fitness and weight goals. Everyone is extremely supportive but brutally honest about shooting down any kind of fatlogic. It's not all serious and we all love a good trainwreck in progress or takedown of egregious fatlogic as well.

maybesaydie I would describe our community here as both supportive and sarcastic. We don't tolerate nonsense but if you're trying to lose weight this sub is a great source of information and always good for a giggle.

What are some of the difficulties you face while moderating?

QueenSkittlez Censorship. I don't want to limit speech, but I've always been one of the stricter with language and hate.

itsmyotherface I would say another challenge we have faced as a mod team and community is finding the tone of the sub. The very earliest posts in /fatlogic would be deleted today. We are trying to balance at a fine line between poking fun at flawed logic vs. poking fun at a person with no mention of logic. Another change which has caused consternation has been an issue of language. Is removing derogatory terms for overweight individuals censorship, or is it taking the focus back to the flawed logic?

GetOffMyLawn_ Sometimes it’s hard to decide if a post should stay or should go. If someone is name calling (words like ham, planet, obeast, or calling other posters cunts) then it’s an easy call. Other times it’s more of a gray area. I tend to tread with a light hand, there are more experienced mods to catch things I miss, plus I try to issue temporary bans in the hope that it was just ignorance of the sub’s rules. I worked in IT Security for 25 years for a defense contractor and I was incredibly strict about enforcing rules and tried to deal with violations by educating people rather than punishing them, although sometimes punishment is the only way to get the education to stick.

tahlyn The actual fat hate that drives the misconception that this is a hate sub. We remove it when we see it, but we don't catch everything. And our users are very no-nonsense. Sometimes unsympathetic refusal to accept fatlogic excuses comes across harsh to an outsider.

Fletch71011 People not understanding what the subreddit is about. We get labeled as a 'fat hate' sub quite often. Another major subreddit announced it would be banning users who participate here about a year ago -- I cannot believe people see us as that kind of threatening or hateful when that is not what the community is about. Doxxing is another major issue we have fought with. We have a couple 'fat activist' types that peruse our subs and this has led to doxxing (both by and against our users). Some moderation of this sub is starting to take place away from the subreddit. I have a few places I have to monitor during the day now to stop or at least try to counteract malicious behavior.

bob_mcbob In terms of users, it's people who assume we are FPH lite (or an FPH alternative now) and think it's okay to simply mock fat people for existing, or use derogatory and dehumanizing language. In terms of moderation itself, the mod tools are incredibly frustrating.

maybesaydie We are associated in the minds of many with the recently deleted fatpeoplehate. That's unfortunate because we aren't here to laugh at people, we're here to laugh at the ridiculous myths people believe about weight and health. And as a counterpoint to the assertion that it's impossible to lose weight.

Do you have anything to say to reddit?

QueenSkittlez Hi Reddit. Be nice. I'm a little buzzed while writing this.

itsmyotherface I feel like this is the section where I should try to convince people we're not FPH. It seems that many people have made up their mind one way or the other, I'm not going to try and talk them out of their opinion.

GetOffMyLawn_ Reddit seems to be more interested in marketability than free speech these days. And these days in America corporations seems to have more free speech than people. Which is very sad. Capitalism is good up to a point, but it can’t be the only point.

tahlyn if you want to change yourself, weight out otherwise, you can do it. It is possible. But you have to start by stopping making excuses for yourself.

Fletch71011 I can't quit you but I do love you. Usually. The recent actions taken do make me afraid for the future though.

bob_mcbob I know a lot of you have preconceived notions about /r/fatlogic being a hate sub, but I really hope you will take the time to come check us out and participate in the discussion. Hopefully we can change your mind!

maybesaydie If you're serious about learning the reasons for the obesity epidemic this is a good place to find answers.

What's your favorite fatlogic post?

QueenSkittlez Generally the really egregious ones, and my karmawhoring obviously.

itsmyotherface My favorite type of posts are posts that involve medical stuff. Things that are along the lines of medical professionals related experiences about working with overweight patients. I also enjoy yet rage at posts about restrictive eating disorders. There is a lot of misinformation everywhere.

GetOffMyLawn_ There are so many! Anything that has a justiceporn flavor to it.

Fletch71011 Anything /u/alanitoo posts is incredible. The amount of effort she goes through to post this stuff is crazy -- especially since I feel we're a pretty lighthearted sub that just wants to laugh at a bit of the craziness of a small corner of the internet. She goes really in-depth with a lot of her posts and well beyond what most users submit. Unfortunately some of the more lighthearted, easy-to-digest stuff will hit our top posts and the people like /u/alanitoo do not always get the recognition they deserve for their work. This is a great breakdown of the craziness behind one of the most well-known people in the fat acceptance circle and her recent blog post: http://www.reddit.com/r/fatlogic/comments/2gkkir/ragen_chastain_comes_out_against_the_oac_obesity/

bob_mcbob My favourite post is this exhaustive writeup of weight loss myths related to metabolism and calorie intake by /u/tahlyn. https://www.reddit.com/r/fatlogic/comments/2i6oa3/can_you_actually_break_your_metabolism/ckzboth

maybesaydie My favorite post is this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/fatlogic/comments/3a2457/what_people_think_going_on_a_diet_must_entail_and/ or any of our ongoing series of sticky posts for progress stories and health questions. A good example of how this sub helps people can be found in this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/fatlogic/comments/3c7ast/im_a_fat_girl_thats_having_a_hard_time_coping/