badpolitics 内の semiconductress によるリンク badpolitics and badhistory: Marxism derives from WW2-era Soviet Union

[–]semiconductress[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's primitive communism and it has no relation to this. I feel like OP just smashed two words together instead of using actual terms that they would've known had they actually read anything: Orthodox Marxism, maybe, or Classical Marxism.

badpolitics 内の semiconductress によるリンク badpolitics and badhistory: Marxism derives from WW2-era Soviet Union

[–]semiconductress[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

R2:

  1. Marxism isn't a reddit movement. Reddit didn't revive Marxism.

  2. What the fuck is "paleo-communism"?

  3. The terms "Reactionary" and "Fascist" aren't unique to Marxism.

  4. Marxism did not begin in WW2-era Soviet Union. The ideas referenced here were around since the 19th century and have been taken seriously in academia for decades/a century.

  5. Marxism was not the direct cause of WW2. Some argue that the influence of Marxists in interwar Germany enabled to fascists to radicalize more people, but that's a completely different discussion.

  6. "Hundreds of millions of people"

Pretty run of the mill lazy anticommunism that's based in made-up history. Does anyone know more about this subreddit? It's bizarre how willing they are to call out somewhat shitty politics based on even shittier politics.

Negareddit 内の DrassupTrollsbane によるリンク No, Hillary is not 'just as bad as Trump'

[–]semiconductress [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If you get that from his supporters, doesn't that indicate that his supporters (or the ones you've talked to) are, or try to be, mostly not racist and hateful?

Negareddit 内の semiconductress によるリンク Just because Negareddit likes to stand against reddit's circlejerks, doesn't mean it itself isn't just as circlejerky and thought-terminating as the rest of reddit

[–]semiconductress[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I made the mistake of "defending" Trump (i.e., arguing that he's not really a fascist) with quotes and evidence and all I got in return were accusations of me buying into propaganda or being privileged. It's pretty obvious from the front page of Negareddit that there is a mainstream opinion here, and people are not accepting of dissent.

Negareddit 内の DrassupTrollsbane によるリンク No, Hillary is not 'just as bad as Trump'

[–]semiconductress [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm not defending Trump. As I've said several times in this thread, I disagree with his opinions and positions. What I'm saying right now is that, even though I think his claims that poor undocumented immigrants (again, not skilled or legal immigrants) are more likely to be criminals is false, it is not obviously false, and it comes more from classism than racism or nationalism. I therefore think that his position and followers are to be taken seriously as representative of a social trend that is not "just" racist or xenophobic, but that is potentially progressive if handled correctly by the Left. Saying "Trump is racist and Hillary is better" is not the way we should handle it.

Negareddit 内の semiconductress によるリンク Just because Negareddit likes to stand against reddit's circlejerks, doesn't mean it itself isn't just as circlejerky and thought-terminating as the rest of reddit

[–]semiconductress[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I never said any such thing! All I'm saying is that Negareddit has a pretty shitty circlejerk, which would be evident to anyone who disagrees with the mainstream Negareddit opinion and should be evident even to those who agree. That my own political position came up at all is because you and this other person weirdly claimed that I have no stance, that I'm one of those people who think that you have to take the middle road on everything.

Negareddit 内の DrassupTrollsbane によるリンク No, Hillary is not 'just as bad as Trump'

[–]semiconductress [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Trump never said that. Let me give you the exact, oft-misquoted quote.

“When do we beat Mexico at the border? They’re laughing at us, at our stupidity. When Mexico sends its people they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you; they’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists, and some, I assume, are good people. But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting.”

He said that people who traverse a poorly guarded border illegally, like poor undocumented immigrants, and drug cartels, have problems. He may think that poor people are more likely to be criminals or rapists, which is very concerning, but it is more classist than racist. He emphasizes that the specific people who are traversing the border illegally have problems, even though some are even "good people." What he wants to do is get the good people to come into America. He is not making a general statement about all Mexicans, Latinos, or immigrants.

Here's a good article that goes more in depth: http://www.salon.com/2015/12/21/the_media_needs_to_stop_telling_this_lie_about_donald_trump_im_a_sanders_supporter_and_value_honesty/

Negareddit 内の semiconductress によるリンク Just because Negareddit likes to stand against reddit's circlejerks, doesn't mean it itself isn't just as circlejerky and thought-terminating as the rest of reddit

[–]semiconductress[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Christ, that doesn't even make any sense!? Being a Marxist is completely different than having this or that identity. All it means is that I subscribe to a particular philosophy of politics and history that guides my understanding of our present situation, and being a radical philosophy it most likely differs from the common perception of things, such as in Negareddit. Can you please engage seriously, instead of making inconsistent one/two-line quips?

Negareddit 内の DrassupTrollsbane によるリンク No, Hillary is not 'just as bad as Trump'

[–]semiconductress [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That's not even what I think. The Democrats aren't always worse. I would've supported Sanders had he won the primary. I'm a trans woman who subconsciously roots for the Democrats because propaganda has told me that they are the best for me. Which is probably true, in the short run. But as a socialist I must also regard both platforms seriously as representations of social trends, and organize based on that. The reason why actual fascists can get away with what they say, on the other hand, are Democrat-type liberals.

Negareddit 内の semiconductress によるリンク Just because Negareddit likes to stand against reddit's circlejerks, doesn't mean it itself isn't just as circlejerky and thought-terminating as the rest of reddit

[–]semiconductress[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

No, I am taking a stance. I'm a Marxist with a particular position on politics and I disagree with Negareddit's mainstream opinion. My point is that most of Negareddit is simply fine with not taking it seriously.

Negareddit 内の DrassupTrollsbane によるリンク No, Hillary is not 'just as bad as Trump'

[–]semiconductress [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

maybe that was a mistake in retrospect but i was just sarcastically quoting the OP. i think calling anyone a cuntwaffle is counterproductive.

Negareddit 内の DrassupTrollsbane によるリンク No, Hillary is not 'just as bad as Trump'

[–]semiconductress 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's the go-tear smear for anyone who doesn't want to consider the actual history and philosophy behind something they have a comfy misunderstanding of. It's also the insidious side of liberal identity politics: you have X opinion, therefore you must be white, male, rich, etc. It's pretty racist and sexist, as if people of oppressed races all share the same opinions! It's also pretty classist, as if workers will and should always prioritize their most immediate concerns, and anything beyond that is cruel speculation by ivory tower intellectuals.

Negareddit 内の DrassupTrollsbane によるリンク No, Hillary is not 'just as bad as Trump'

[–]semiconductress -29ポイント-28ポイント  (0子コメント)

True, if Trump actually was like that. My point is that he really isn't. It's a miscaricaturization that Trump supporters do not support. He doesn't think all brown people are the devil. In fact, he thinks that brown and black people who are American citizens should cooperate with other races for mutual benefit, and that certain skilled brown (or not!) people should be encouraged to enter (he has talked about a "big beautiful door" in his Mexican wall). Building a wall is, in his eyes, supposed to help both America and Mexico (he wants to get Mexico to build it because he thinks it'll be profitable for them and provide extra jobs). Likewise, he does not want to deport everyone, but only the undocumented, and some of them would even be welcomed back in. He has no trace of racial superiority in his rhetoric. Everything is about making America the country competitive economically.

Also, Hillary and the Democrats will be just as, if not more jingoistic about the War on Terrorism. Don't forget that drones happened under Obama.

Negareddit 内の DrassupTrollsbane によるリンク No, Hillary is not 'just as bad as Trump'

[–]semiconductress -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think Trump cultivates a cult of personality any more than Hillary or Bernie do, really. With Hillary it's especially obvious: instead of identifying themselves with a movement or a cause, many (of course, not all) supporters use slogans like #imwithher, referring to her specifically, or it's her turn, as if she deserves presidency. The Bernie bird ordeal is just as bizarre as the girls singing for Trump, and even the girls aren't singing fascistically (compare them to something like Triumph of the Will: the girls are supposed to be cute cheerleaders, which is creepy and fascistic insofar as all cheerleaders are creepy and fascistic, but are not meant to evoke national/political/social unity and strength).

With regards to turning people within the same class against each other, this has always been the strategy of the bourgeoisie. The IWW accused the AFL of doing so back in 1905. Hillary's neoliberalism does exactly the same thing, but in a more muted way: you should rally around your identity and get marriage equality, instead of finding solidarity with other proletarians! Furthermore, Trump and most Trump supporters I've talked to actually think the opposite: they see Trump as wanting to build inter-racial cooperation (of course, they see BLM as divisive) for American citizens. While this is attempted through conservative politics and will not succeed, it is nevertheless not fascist in any sense.

I do not think that he is similar to past dictators. Hitler is an oft-raised example but that is pure hyperbole: can you imagine if Hitler, or some modern European alt-rightist, hosted a Jewish or Muslim restaurant at their headquarters, and propagated an image of them eating there with the caption, "I love Jews/Muslims!"? That would be ridiculous. There is a major difference here: Trump is anti-illegal immigration, but fairly consistently pro-expansion of skilled immigration, meaning that he does not think the American nation must be preserved, but that America should be competitive economically with other countries. This is markedly different not just from racial fascism, but also from more subdued national fascisms like Brazilian Integralism, which uses militaristic and spiritual rhetoric about overthrowing the existing economic system, not getting better within it.

Furthermore, he has made no attempts at undermining American democracy. His diatribes against "crooked Hillary" are actually pro-democracy: he rallies against the ossified establishment that no longer listens to the people. He has said that he should win, because "everybody loves [him]," not because the people who don't love him should not have a say.

While it is true that Trump prioritizes the lives of American citizens and prefers the preservation of American values, this is true of literally every other presidential candidate, ever. No presidential candidate will ever say, "why don't we make sure the Mexican workers are doing well?" (unless that is specifically useful for American strategic interests, like in post-WW2 Europe and Japan) or "why don't we overthrow American values for new ones?". Given the nation-state system of global politics, this simply makes no sense. Trump is fascistic, as in he is nationalistic, insofar as everything is nationalistic.

With regards to stability, I do not have extensive enough historical knowledge about past political reshufflings in America, although I do suspect that Trump is a lot more skillful and clever than some people think he is. FDR famously reorganized the American system with the New Deal, and though that was disastrous for the communists, it was decent for most of the American population.

Finally, about the progressive potential of Trump. Basically, he stands against neoliberalism, which means potentially an end to the unproductive identity politics of the last decade, both on the Right and the Left. And, his support base, being mostly non-racists and non-fascists for the reasons listed above, have a real beef with the existing system. We must ask ourselves: why do otherwise rational people support a conservative candidate instead of their actual class interests? The rational kernel of Trump, for some, is that no Left alternative exists to seem feasible. Given the failure of Sanders both to set himself apart from the Democrats and to win, Trump is the oppositional party in the absence of a Left. What this implies is not to support Trump, but to provide a Left alternative in order to recruit from Trump's own support base.

Negareddit 内の semiconductress によるリンク Just because Negareddit likes to stand against reddit's circlejerks, doesn't mean it itself isn't just as circlejerky and thought-terminating as the rest of reddit

[–]semiconductress[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's pretty ridiculous that people who disagree with me tell me to think and engage some more! Debates in political philosophy and history be damned, my position is pretty obviously right and it's a no-brainer. If only everyone else had the same no-brainers as I do!

Negareddit 内の DrassupTrollsbane によるリンク No, Hillary is not 'just as bad as Trump'

[–]semiconductress -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

We do need to differentiate accelerationism and "shaking things up." Accelerationism is the notion that making things worse for workers will radicalize them to the Left. This is untrue and dangerous, and it comes from an especially economistic vulgar-Marxism: it fails to take into account the "subjective factor" of history (borrowing from Wilhelm Reich) and fetishizes the objective. Hitler did not bring about revolution.

There is, however, an argument to be made that Trump and Sanders represent trends within society that are anti-American-establishment, which may put the "stability" of society at risk, but are nonetheless necessary forces to understand and draw from in order to actually transform society. This is not accelerationism. It is not claiming that a worse society will radicalize society, but that existing trends within society suggest the possibility of radicalization. Rather than posing Hillary as the "lesser evil," it is to recruit from Trump supporters against Hillary, rather than Hillary supporters against Trump. It is to see in Trump something potentially progressive and to draw it out, rather than to support a lesser evil (who is likely not even that lesser of an evil) for lesser evil's sake. It is not myopic, because it sees the possibility of a future.

Obama has deported more immigrants than any other president in American history. Hillary shows no signs of reversing that trend. Trump promises further deportation but, at the same time, an expansion of the welfare state and legal immigration for skilled workers that might turn out better for people. The delusion that Hillary is preferable because of her somewhat less inflammatory rhetoric is the same delusion that Bernie would pull her to the Left, or that Obama would have fulfilled his campaign promises.

This all is not to say that Trump is to be supported, or that he is a Leftist, obviously. It is to say that the rational kernel in his support base is not to be dismissed as merely racist or privileged, that he is not the obvious evil, and that voting for the lesser evil is not the only thing you can do.

FULLCOMMUNISM 内の themilibandgirl によるリンク maximum liberal

[–]semiconductress 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

Their lip-service means the integration of previously somewhat-subversive social forms into capitalist society. It shows nothing except the insidious and continuous reification of capitalism. It means that they are no longer the enemy, because you are no longer their enemy. The "status quo" is not just a particular configuration of biases or bigotries.